MS Natural 4000 vs a Mechanical keybroard

[overthetop]

What do you think that ergonomic keyboard? I know that it's not a mechanical one but the shape is really nice. Do you think that it will be faster to type on that keyboard, I am talking about speed and accuracy here...

[Findecanor]

I don't like the MS 4000. The keys bind horribly on off-centre key presses and all keys on each side are not facing the same angle making the problem worse. Cherry MX has much much better key feel.

The keyboards from Goldtouch are better. Even the Microsoft Sculpt Desktop's keyboard is better, see this review comparing it to the MS4000.

You could also look at the Matias Ergo Pro - mechanical, but uses Alps-clone key switches that are a bit worse on off-centre key presses than Cherry MX. However, it will not be out until August.

Then there are the keyboards that have columnar layouts, like the Kinesis, Maltron and ErgoDox -- all using Cherry MX switches. You need to do proper touch-typing to type fast and accurately on those, so if you don't there is a bit of a learning curve. The ErgoDox is also a kit-keyboard, which you solder and assemble yourself (or pay someone to do for you).

[Zombly]

I actually use this board for work, I like and don't like it for work, however most of my work consists of the numpad.., I'd prefer my home keyboard and it's not mechanical or topre over it though, just something i've gotten use to, wouldn't recommend it the keys hurt your fingers while typing when I write letters.

[squarefrog]

Finally! A question I feel qualified to answer!

So I've used the 4000 for about a year now. Initially it was fine, and relieved the pain I felt from using the Apple aluminium knife keyboard. For the past couple of months I've been craving something better. I have large enough hands yet I've gotten pain from stretching to hit keys on the 4000.

I then discovered the ergodox, which is the first mechanical I've owned since the model m some 20 years or so ago. Today was the first day I used it full time. Believe me it felt good to unplug that 4000 and stuff it in the cupboard.

I should point out now that speed doesn't matter to me. I'm a full time programmer so I break to think more than I spend typing.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the design of the 4000. I particularly liked the padded wrist rests. But those keys.... After you try some mechs you realise why people hate them so much. They are bad, even for rubber domes.

A full size mech will suit you if that's the kind of keyboard you want. Just choose your switches carefully. I use browns in my dox, and I love them. Easier to press than the 4000, yet just tactile enough for me to not bottom out.

As for accuracy, after just one day I'm more accurate with the dox. This could be because my WPM has dropped, but I believe it's because it's just a better keyboard.


I did try the kinesis advantage but just couldn't get on with it. For me it was far to high to use comfortably.

[overthetop]

I own a mechanical keyboard for about a 5 mounts and I am a good touch typist I think just did 95 wpm today I was just wondering whether that ergonomic keyboards matters or it's just me typing slow...

[daerid]

I used a MS 4000 for years before going mechanical. After about 6 months on a Das Keyboard I went back to my 4000 for about 4 hours before my hands started aching and stiffening up. I've since typed on it a few times every 6 months or so to reaffirm how absolutely horrendous the keyboard is.

[davkol]

My experience is that the Ergo 4k is the second worst keyboard in the MS Natural line quality-wise—by far. Only the previous multimedia one was worse. Terrible keycaps, terrible rubber dome, weird media keys, design that wasn't spill-proof at all. I sort of liked only the cushion palm rest (despite my aversion to hand rests) and negative slope.

I'd take a Dell/LiteOn/Silitek SK-6000 over it any day. Not to mention a goldtouch, kinesis [advantage] or even better, ergodox.

[squarefrog]

I own a mechanical keyboard for about a 5 mounts and I am a good touch typist I think just did 95 wpm today I was just wondering whether that ergonomic keyboards matters or it's just me typing slow...

Do you really consider 95 wpm slow? My top speed is about 65 wpm and thats good enough for me

[overthetop]

I own a mechanical keyboard for about a 5 mounts and I am a good touch typist I think just did 95 wpm today I was just wondering whether that ergonomic keyboards matters or it's just me typing slow...

Do you really consider 95 wpm slow? My top speed is about 65 wpm and thats good enough for me

well it's a passion of mine and I'm just wondering whether I am using the right keyboard or not.

[overthetop]

I used a MS 4000 for years before going mechanical. After about 6 months on a Das Keyboard I went back to my 4000 for about 4 hours before my hands started aching and stiffening up. I've since typed on it a few times every 6 months or so to reaffirm how absolutely horrendous the keyboard is.

I guess that you are using ErgoDox now right? Can you tell me from where you have bought it (and how much it costs), because I really can't find how to order this. Nothing on the net.

[EvillePanda]

The Ergo Dox is an open source keyboard and has to be built from scratch.  However, you might check out the Axios and the Keyboardio (designed by AcidFire and Obra here on the forums respectively).  They're not out yet, but we should see some crowd funding for both this summer.

I've used Microsoft's "ergonomic" keyboards.  They work fine at first, but the reach is really uncomfortable.  I use a Truly Ergonomic and a Typematrix now and have far less pain than before.  I'm waiting on my Ergodox right now.  I'll need to teach myself to solder for that one.

[davkol]

I used a MS 4000 for years before going mechanical. After about 6 months on a Das Keyboard I went back to my 4000 for about 4 hours before my hands started aching and stiffening up. I've since typed on it a few times every 6 months or so to reaffirm how absolutely horrendous the keyboard is.

I guess that you are using ErgoDox now right? Can you tell me from where you have bought it (and how much it costs), because I really can't find how to order this. Nothing on the net.

From czarek, at Massdrop every now and then, or build it from parts bought at mechanicalkeyboards.com and Digikey... or build it from scratch by yourself, it's more or less open hardware after all.

[ideus]

Finally! A question I feel qualified to answer!

So I've used the 4000 for about a year now. Initially it was fine, and relieved the pain I felt from using the Apple aluminium knife keyboard. For the past couple of months I've been craving something better. I have large enough hands yet I've gotten pain from stretching to hit keys on the 4000.

I then discovered the ergodox, which is the first mechanical I've owned since the model m some 20 years or so ago. Today was the first day I used it full time. Believe me it felt good to unplug that 4000 and stuff it in the cupboard.

I should point out now that speed doesn't matter to me. I'm a full time programmer so I break to think more than I spend typing.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the design of the 4000. I particularly liked the padded wrist rests. But those keys.... After you try some mechs you realise why people hate them so much. They are bad, even for rubber domes.

A full size mech will suit you if that's the kind of keyboard you want. Just choose your switches carefully. I use browns in my dox, and I love them. Easier to press than the 4000, yet just tactile enough for me to not bottom out.

As for accuracy, after just one day I'm more accurate with the dox. This could be because my WPM has dropped, but I believe it's because it's just a better keyboard.


I did try the kinesis advantage but just couldn't get on with it. For me it was far to high to use comfortably.

This is a very interesting note, than you so much for sharing. How about your pain with the ergo?

[squarefrog]

This is a very interesting note, than you so much for sharing. How about your pain with the ergo?

Thank you! Well its still early days yet, and i've got some bad habits to get out of with my right hand (stretching, "clawing" my hand). But what I will say is this keyboard feels amazing to type on. I went for Cherry Browns, which are a polarising switch (love em or hate em!). Personally I think this was a great choice - they are much much lighter than the 4000, which definitely helps with strain, although the downside is I absent-mindedly press them when distracted as the feel is so good!

I'm going to take a book in to work today that I can tent the two halfs on to see if that improves the feel further!

[da20valve]

That's all I used until a few weeks ago had 5 or 6 of them, if I could get mechanical in this I would be all over it NO MATTER the cost, the problem is the Ergo 4000 doesn't last that long, every single one I have had had either the Enter or Left side of the keyboard keys stopped working, I just had one that brake about 3 weeks ago, I found it really hard to change to a natural layout but after nearly 3 weeks I doubt I will go back (unless they make a mechanical version).