[GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)

[norbauer]

Have the font issues been resolved or is that something that will happen during production?

I am working on some minor tweaks to make things more internally consistent, but I wouldn't call this a resolution to issues so much as revising a few subjective judgement calls (balancing the variables mentioned in my prior posts), mostly based on feedback from matt3o (creator of the Granite set).

At any rate, my advice is to buy the set based whether you like the mock-up as posted at PMK. There will be some final tweaks, but I can't yet make any promises as to their nature. I've been working on them as I have time over the past week, but I may not be able to post them until the GB has ended, and again they'll just be super tiny adjustments  trying to improve internal consistency, nothing major. After that, there will be a further phase of minor tweaks based on feedback from SP, and if any issues come up during manufacturing.

[soymic]

The only thing that prevent me to order this is the absurd cost of the Tsangan kit (that i need)

Yea this is making me seriously consider not participating. Even at 75 orders $44 is a ripoff for a tsangan. We are at 8.....

If they want more orders drop the tsangan price somehow or add it into the base set like many of the more modern sales are doing.

It's 10 right now, and only 5 days left.
As I pointed out, this may be the first GB doesn't include a tsangan set. I love this color scheme, hope norbauer can find a solution to prevent it from happening.

[LechnerDE]

Yeah, the high price of the Tsangan Kit is probably keeping many people from ordering. Nobody wants to commit to the current price, but it won't get any cheaper if nobody orders - it's a vicious circle.

Maybe it would have been better to start at the 100 sets mark to offer a more attractive price?

[DanielT]

I wanted the Tsangan Kit, but the price is to high Maybe if it was split in smaller kits ...  who knows. Anyway I hope at least the main kit makes it, this is one key set I really like. At the beginning when I saw the theme I was sure a lot of people will buy it, OMG it's Star Trek The Next Generation !!!!, but now I realize that we are talking about a series 20 years old .... But it does not matter I'm happy Moz and norbauer came up with this key set 
So, 11 more to go ! Go ahead and buy more! It has no flaws, and it will be a great set to have 

[taylordcraig]

I wanted the Tsangan Kit, but the price is to high Maybe if it was split in smaller kits ...  who knows. Anyway I hope at least the main kit makes it, this is one key set I really like. At the beginning when I saw the theme I was sure a lot of people will buy it, OMG it's Star Trek The Next Generation !!!!, but now I realize that we are talking about a series 20 years old .... But it does not matter I'm happy Moz and norbauer came up with this key set 
So, 11 more to go ! Go ahead and buy more! It has no flaws, and it will be a great set to have 

My girlfriend and I are both under 25 and are currently on Season 4 watching it all the way through.
I remember watching episodes when I was a kid, but never a whole season. The show started its run in '87.
That's 27 years. Haha. Still very excited for this set.

Edit: I want to make tsangan happen but $750 is a lot for 16 tsangan kits I'll probably never sell.

[danielucf]

Yeah, the high price of the Tsangan Kit is probably keeping many people from ordering. Nobody wants to commit to the current price, but it won't get any cheaper if nobody orders - it's a vicious circle.

Maybe it would have been better to start at the 100 sets mark to offer a more attractive price?

All the tiers are too expensive for tsangan, $50 @ 25 (not there yet), $45 @ 50, $44 @ 75 only a dollar reduction when the next 25 is marked down $9 to $35 @ 100 which is approaching reasonable. If someone running the buy would ask PMK to re-evaluate the pricing there may be an error in the price tiers, it wouldn't be the first time. I'm going to flat out say it, I will not participate if I can't get a tsangan for a reasonable price in the low $30 range or less.

[taylordcraig]

Yeah, the high price of the Tsangan Kit is probably keeping many people from ordering. Nobody wants to commit to the current price, but it won't get any cheaper if nobody orders - it's a vicious circle.

Maybe it would have been better to start at the 100 sets mark to offer a more attractive price?

All the tiers are too expensive for tsangan, $50 @ 25 (not there yet), $45 @ 50, $44 @ 75 only a dollar reduction when the next 25 is marked down $9 to $35 @ 100 which is approaching reasonable. If someone running the buy would ask PMK to re-evaluate the pricing there may be an error in the price tiers, it wouldn't be the first time. I'm going to flat out say it, I will not participate if I can't get a tsangan for a reasonable price in the low $30 range or less.

It really does seem off.

[DanielT]

It's really strange, but on the other hand I saw that smaller kits tend to be more expensive. But I think we should check with SP, maybe .... 50$ it's a steep price for a bunch of key caps and a space bar.
From that kit I needed only the 1.75u SHIFT and the 1u FN
Anyway 9 more and we reach the MOQ for the base kit 

[taylordcraig]

It's really strange, but on the other hand I saw that smaller kits tend to be more expensive. But I think we should check with SP, maybe .... 50$ it's a steep price for a bunch of key caps and a space bar.
From that kit I needed only the 1.75u SHIFT and the 1u FN
Anyway 9 more and we reach the MOQ for the base kit 

I'll mostly be missing my fancy 1.5s and 1u.

[norbauer]

Yeah, the high price of the Tsangan Kit is probably keeping many people from ordering. Nobody wants to commit to the current price, but it won't get any cheaper if nobody orders - it's a vicious circle.

Maybe it would have been better to start at the 100 sets mark to offer a more attractive price?

All the tiers are too expensive for tsangan, $50 @ 25 (not there yet), $45 @ 50, $44 @ 75 only a dollar reduction when the next 25 is marked down $9 to $35 @ 100 which is approaching reasonable. If someone running the buy would ask PMK to re-evaluate the pricing there may be an error in the price tiers, it wouldn't be the first time. I'm going to flat out say it, I will not participate if I can't get a tsangan for a reasonable price in the low $30 range or less.

The word from SP is that the unusual Tsangan price is due to the higher quality legend process we are using:

Unfortunately it is not an error. The reason for the high pricing is mainly due to the custom sublimation paper that we are using. We are purchasing this for your order, where the Granite paper was printed in house at a much lower cost. We can only print one Tsangan set at a time whereas all the other kits (with the exception of the main) are at least 2 or more. ...

[D01]

I can't pass this one up, good thing pay day is very soon.

[LechnerDE]

I expect there to be some "last day momentum" for orders, so the base set pretty much has made it.

Maybe we can even hit the 100 mark. Hopefully we will reach the 50 order mark for the numpads as well, but I am afraid the smaller sets like ISO will fail

In my opinion this is a still a very successful GB especially after many people spent their money on the Granite Set.

[DanielT]

I think also problems with the GB site discourage people... Today I wanted to buy also the numpad , I'm a 60% type but the numpad is too nice not to buy it and it was impossible for me to checkout 
SP still has to refine the GB site and in time it will be something great 

[Matt3o]

I have a feeling that SP found out that sublimation is harder than expected when it comes to such elaborate designs

[LechnerDE]

I think also problems with the GB site discourage people... Today I wanted to buy also the numpad , I'm a 60% type but the numpad is too nice not to buy it and it was impossible for me to checkout 
SP still has to refine the GB site and in time it will be something great 

Maybe you should contact Melissa so she can add the numpad to your existing order manually?

Every Numpad order counts! The next price tier is really close!

[DanielT]

I will contact Melissa, but I will try again tomorrow. During checkout I get a strange message that shipping address is required, but I have all shipping details checked. And for the main set and Battle Bridge did not have these problems.
I know that every kit counts, I did some PR also on DT People tend to forget about these GB's and remember when it's too late. A little inception is always good
In the meantime 8 sets to go for the main kit! Buy more 

[tigersharkdude]

I think also problems with the GB site discourage people... Today I wanted to buy also the numpad , I'm a 60% type but the numpad is too nice not to buy it and it was impossible for me to checkout 
SP still has to refine the GB site and in time it will be something great 

Maybe you should contact Melissa so she can add the numpad to your existing order manually?

Every Numpad order counts! The next price tier is really close!

I did, she said orders cannot be changed, only cancelled and reordered.

I cancelled my preorder, SP seems to have their head up their "butt" right now

[norbauer]

I will contact Melissa, but I will try again tomorrow. During checkout I get a strange message that shipping address is required, but I have all shipping details checked. And for the main set and Battle Bridge did not have these problems.
I know that every kit counts, I did some PR also on DT People tend to forget about these GB's and remember when it's too late. A little inception is always good
In the meantime 8 sets to go for the main kit! Buy more 

It is worth remembering perhaps that PMK is a relatively new site, as is the whole direct group buy thing for SP. It is surely a work in progress with plenty of kinks to work out, but it is cool that they are willing to deal with hobbyists like this at all. For a company that largely does work for other large manufacturers, a set like this one is a very small order with low margins, I'd guess, given the amount of labor and communication involved relative to the order quantity.

[DanielT]

In time all these small issues will be solved, I'm not scared nor upset, if I want something I don't give up easy   
PMK is a great thing and people should be more supportive, it is the first time a company is offering such a service and it opens so many opportunities, this very GB is an example.

[danielucf]

Objects in space: fifteen 1x keys and one 6.2x key - $28 - DCS profile
Galaxy Class tsangan: eight 1x, four 1.5x, two 1.75x (one off-center), and one 7x - $50 - DSA profile

So almost twice the price. I know that larger keys cost a bit more, but this is extreme. Also the Galaxy Class tsangan doesn't have dye sublimation on the spacebar. Additionally I'm not sure on this but I wonder if DSA uses more plastic per key than DCS?

What is the "Higher quality legend process"? Is it something different from normal dye sublimation?

The fact is a lot of people that might buy from PMK are using boards that require a tsangan, and those people are not going to participate if the price is too high. SP sells their "extra" keys at $2.50 a piece, so if there happened to be extras of the tsangan left over I could buy the set that way for $37.50

[norbauer]

What is the "Higher quality legend process"? Is it something different from normal dye sublimation?

Absolutely. Because of the smallish legends on this set and the importance of the font to the overall theme, we opted to use a rare high-end screen-printed dye-sublimation process (not used on Granite or, to my knowledge, any other recent GeekHack group buy). It yields much crisper legends.

Here is a photo comparing the two processes. The two outer keys are examples of LCARS legends printed using the normal process. The keys on the inside are keys printed for another job (a phone keypad) using the screenprint process. The difference should be obvious in the picture, but I can vouch that in person the difference is even more noticeable.



So, yes, there is a premium price. But this is a small-run hobbyist project using the highest-end processes available (we're also doing other things like a custom-mixed Pantone-matched resin color), so that's somewhat to be expected. And I take SP at their word about the extra challenges and cost of the Tsangan set in its current configuration. I'm not sure what else to say beyond that. Given that we're doing things that haven't really been done before, I don't think there is a baseline for comparison to decide what is or isn't a fair price. Each person can decide privately whether it's worth it to him or her.

[jdeblese]

Objects in space: fifteen 1x keys and one 6.2x key - $28 - DCS profile
Galaxy Class tsangan: eight 1x, four 1.5x, two 1.75x (one off-center), and one 7x - $50 - DSA profile

So almost twice the price. I know that larger keys cost a bit more, but this is extreme.

Don't forget, it's not just the size. From what I understand, they make the blank keys, and then separately have to set them up in a printer to print the legends. There's restrictions on which keys can go together and how many can go at one time, so to pull some numbers out of the air, the Galaxy tsangan might take four setups while the Objects only two setups. Matt3o mentioned something similar in the Granite buy: adding the needed smaller shift to the ISO key buy doubled the price, despite it being only one key, purely because of the setup costs.

[Matt3o]

I hope you could find the time to fix all the minor issues with the legends, because such a hi-premium detail print deserves top notch legends.

[norbauer]

I hope you could find the time to fix all the minor issues with the legends, because such a hi-premium detail print deserves top notch legends.

I haven't forgotten. The work is largely done; I hope to post new mock ups soon. And I've spoken with Melissa; she'll wait on moving to production until we have the size tweaks in place.

[LechnerDE]

By the way, is the order count on the PMK site in real time?

My ISO Kit and Numpad order still doesn't show up, but I am pretty sure my base set and the single keys were updated...

[norbauer]

Tweaked legends attached. The bizarre quirks of this font and the unusual use of bottom-right alignment make many of the super fine details hard to make completely consistent, but hopefully this moves more in the direction of what matt3o had in mind?

If this looks OK, I can work on bringing the other sets in line with this one.

This is admittedly somewhat subjective, but I have somewhat intentionally downplayed the size and boldness of the punctuation glyphs to preserve the overall feel of looking at a alphanumeric-heavy LCARS display panel (see last attachment). However, I have tried to make everything more internally consistent compared to the last version.

[norbauer]

I expect there to be some "last day momentum" for orders, so the base set pretty much has made it.

Maybe we can even hit the 100 mark. Hopefully we will reach the 50 order mark for the numpads as well, but I am afraid the smaller sets like ISO will fail

In my opinion this is a still a very successful GB especially after many people spent their money on the Granite Set.

I am betting that they'll make the ISO set at the lowest price tier even if it doesn't "tip," since many people will have been banking on getting that set in order to make the core set fit on their boards. I'll certainly make that recommendation anyway. Tsangan is more questionable since it's a larger undertaking; we'll see how many orders we get between now and then.

[taylordcraig]

I expect there to be some "last day momentum" for orders, so the base set pretty much has made it.

Maybe we can even hit the 100 mark. Hopefully we will reach the 50 order mark for the numpads as well, but I am afraid the smaller sets like ISO will fail

In my opinion this is a still a very successful GB especially after many people spent their money on the Granite Set.

I am betting that they'll make the ISO set at the lowest price tier even if it doesn't "tip," since many people will have been banking on getting that set in order to make the core set fit on their boards. I'll certainly make that recommendation anyway. Tsangan is more questionable since it's a larger undertaking; we'll see how many orders we get between now and then.

I really hope they make the Tsangan. I'd even purchase a second or third if they were on the fence.

In regards to the legends, my immediate impressions are it looks fairly uniform except the @ is too thin, the ? is too thick, and the double quotes are too close together.

[i3oilermaker]

I expect there to be some "last day momentum" for orders, so the base set pretty much has made it.

Maybe we can even hit the 100 mark. Hopefully we will reach the 50 order mark for the numpads as well, but I am afraid the smaller sets like ISO will fail

In my opinion this is a still a very successful GB especially after many people spent their money on the Granite Set.

I am betting that they'll make the ISO set at the lowest price tier even if it doesn't "tip," since many people will have been banking on getting that set in order to make the core set fit on their boards. I'll certainly make that recommendation anyway. Tsangan is more questionable since it's a larger undertaking; we'll see how many orders we get between now and then.

I really hope they make the Tsangan. I'd even purchase a second or third if they were on the fence.

In regards to the legends, my immediate impressions are it looks fairly uniform except the @ is too thin, the ? is too thick, and the double quotes are too close together.

Tsangan will tip - no need to worry.

[LechnerDE]

i3oilermaker for  the rescue!!

 

[norbauer]

In regards to the legends, my immediate impressions are it looks fairly uniform except the @ is too thin, the ? is too thick, and the double quotes are too close together.

I think you're right on the @ sign. I added another 0.1pt to the outline.

The question mark is the same point size as the other punctuation marks, but I also agree on that one and will manually downsize it just a little bit. (Swiss 911 is a really weird font.)

[norbauer]

Tsangan will tip - no need to worry.

Excellent!

[i3oilermaker]

Tsangan Tipped / Base Set Price Dropped / Numpad Price Dropped

[norbauer]

Tsangan Tipped / Base Set Price Dropped / Numpad Price Dropped

 

[DanielT]

Yeeeeeeei! I'm getting my ST TNG set Thank you for making this happen 

[MOZ]

Thank you i3oilermaker!

Regarding th high cost of Tsangan:
- Better printing process
- Custom color PBT
- Various sizes
- More plastic than DCS (DSA keys are much thicker than DCS)

[mer]

Perhaps I should have asked before I ordered , but, once this deal expires, how long does it take for them to make the sets and ship them out?

[LechnerDE]

Perhaps I should have asked before I ordered , but, once this deal expires, how long does it take for them to make the sets and ship them out?

4-6 weeks in my experience

[mer]

Perhaps I should have asked before I ordered , but, once this deal expires, how long does it take for them to make the sets and ship them out?

4-6 weeks in my experience

Ok, not too bad. Thanks.

[LechnerDE]

Perhaps I should have asked before I ordered , but, once this deal expires, how long does it take for them to make the sets and ship them out?

4-6 weeks in my experience

Ok, not too bad. Thanks.

Don't nail me down on that! The doubleshot Macross Set was produced in this timeframe - maybe dye subs take longer...

[mer]

Perhaps I should have asked before I ordered , but, once this deal expires, how long does it take for them to make the sets and ship them out?

4-6 weeks in my experience

Ok, not too bad. Thanks.

Don't nail me down on that! The doubleshot Macross Set was produced in this timeframe - maybe dye subs take longer...

No worries. I just wanted an idea of how long this takes. I didn't know if it would just be a few days, or weeks or months.

[jdeblese]

Don't nail me down on that! The doubleshot Macross Set was produced in this timeframe - maybe dye subs take longer...

It seems they do, as it's a two-step process. Proofs have to be made and checked as well.

For example, Granite ended April 17, so we've just past the 7-week mark. All the keys have been molded, and proofs are being checked. Full scale production should be any day now, but that + shipping also takes time.

Galaxy has a special printing process and a custom color, and I wonder how that will affect things.

Good things come to those who wait 

[Willyc277]

Holy cow! Checked a couple of days ago and we were at 61 on the base set I think! Now it's up to 112! Battle bridge set is 8 away from $15! Good job guys 

[DanielT]

I hope SP solves my checkout problem in time and I can order also the Tsangan kit, been two days of e-mails and testing with no success. At least I have the main set secured

[norbauer]

I hope SP solves my checkout problem in time and I can order also the Tsangan kit, been two days of e-mails and testing with no success. At least I have the main set secured

If the problem isn't sorted out after the buy ends, PM me and I'll ping Melissa for help when we're discussing the manufacturing details. Even if the site isn't working, she can probably process an order add-on manually.

[DanielT]

I will see on Monday how it works. Hope it will be solved
If not i'll PM you, thanks
I'm really happy that the GB made it. This is for me The Key Set

[LechnerDE]

Come on people!

Get that Battle Bridge set to 50

[Noko]

Awesome, happy to see the quantities going up!

[DanielT]

I'm waiting for Monday, hope SP solves my problem and I will make my contribution to Tsangan and Numpad. I won't give up without a fight

[danielucf]

Sticking to my word since tsangan was never changed. I struggled with the sets in my cart, but I'll just have to drool over other peoples pictures. Custom colors are free so tsangan being so much more expensive than other similar key count sets just doesn't make sense.