KTOD - What are you recommending others for their first mechanical keyboards?

[CPTBadAss]

I talk about keyboards a lot, even in real life. Occasionally, I can convince someone to check them out and perhaps buy one. Over the weekend, I recommended a friend a Filco Majestouch 2. My usual recommendation talk goes like this:

1) Do you want the number pad or not?
2) What's their budget?
3) If they want the numberpad, do they want backlighting?
4) If no backlighting, I recommend a Filco. If yes to backlighting, I recommend Ducky.
5) If they don't need a number pad, I recommend a Filco TKL, QFR, Ducky Shine keyboard, or Poker 2. The recommendation depends on how minimal they're willing to be. I've actually managed to recommend someone a Poker 2 as their first mech board. They're not an enthusiast or anything, just a gamer who now has happy fingers .


What are you recommending others for their first mechanical keyboards?

Is this consistent with what others are recommending? I wonder if I'm missing out on other brands. Should I be recommending more CM stuff or something else? What do ya'll think and why? Help me refine my sales pitch and spread the word.

[Lastpilot]

Some posts I did earlier, LOL.

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Dude. Save yourself the entire factory MX keyboard journey and gather funds for a custom aluminum board. It is so worth it. So. Worth. It.

I can admit it.
 I am silly.
 I am obsessed with the korean custom boards.

I can only speak from my own experience so this is the advice I would have given myself if I could go back in time.

I knew for sure I was looking for a solid, beautiful and modern cherry mx board and I knew that a korean custom was the epitome of that category. When I first became a lurker on GH, the KMAC craze was just starting and I instantly fell in love with images of DanGWanG and Reaper's titanium anodized boards [among others of course]. I spent countless hours looking through the Post your korean keyboard thread just enjoying the fact that these machines exist. It's what kept me coming back, it's what got me to register, and it's why I'm still here.

At the time the cheapest alu-cased board was a Poker X with a CNC case. It was not cheap, weighing in at over half the price of a fully alu housed TKL. I got the poker in hopes of temporary satiating my hunger for a solid metal board. But alas, in a few short months, I knew that I had to part with it in order to save funds for a "real" aluminum board. The taste of 6061 only made me want more.

Later that year, I purchased a KMAC LE for almost $400; my first TKL board.  Life is different now. I'm there. I made it.  It suffices to say that this board lived up to my expectations and was worth every last penny. The heft, the build quality and the looks. It was all there. The board is one of the first things I touch in the morning and one of the last things I touch at night. It literally looks, feels and weighs like $400. Maybe more. I'm constantly feeling the cold hard angles and bevels of the board, in awe of it's precision machining. No matter what I'm doing on the computer I am almost always aware of the keyboard.  I'm never "trapped" at my desk at home. I want to be there because of my board. My stupidly awesomely expensive korean custom board.

One of the reasons I could sell the KMAC at cost was because I loved having it so much. It was worth the loss of selling it for $330. In my mind I paid about $12 a month to have the board for the six months of ownership. The only reason I sold it was to find a board that supported full backlight so I got an LZ.

So of course, if I am going to give advice on what keyboard you should buy, it's going to be a custom alu board because I have an obsession. Geekhack itself is a hub of keyboard obsession. And I think a custom fully-housed aluminum board is the best way to express that obsession.

Korean customs are not practical. But falling in love never is.

[CPTBadAss]

Can't be sticker shocking people on the first recommendations. No way I would have bought a Korean Custom as my first board when I started.

[Melvang]

I like recommending a switch tester.  Just to attempt to reduce buyers remorse on switch type.

[jwaz]

Most of the discussions I've had with non keyboard nerds who are also heavy computer users stem from around what's most comfortable. Things like layout are the MOST important to the majority of people I've talked to (aka what they've been using and stuck to), I do my best to explain the difference in switches but unless you have a board around then words like travel and tactillity have no comparison to actually just trying a board out.

CPT, I'm curious why you would recommend Filco over a cheaper vendor who uses the same OEM (CM's QFR)?

[CPTBadAss]

Costar is not one factory and I'm not 100% sure they have the same QC. Therefore I don't buy into the same OEM so same keyboard thing. Until I understand better how they work that is.

Most of the time, people like their full size keyboards and are put off by the XT's branding and logos so I haven't been recommending it because of the "gamer" style looks.

That being said, I usually suggest QFR if the person is ok with TKLs.

[Defect]

I usually tell them that they're wrong.  They usually are.

[Puddsy]

Filco so that they never have to buy another one

[mashby]

My process is pretty much the same as yours CPTBadAss, but most conversations end up having people bail before I can get to a recommendation. If I'm lucky, I can bring out a few boards for them to try different switches, but most people just shake their heads and think I have a peculiar hobby. Nobody has been mean, but they just don't "get it."

I've had two success stories though. My wife and my mother-in-law both have the same keyboard and love it. 

[Jagriff]

I want to say QFR, regardless if they care about the numberpad or backlighting. I just don't understand the need for either of those things...

However one friend of mine got a WASD (under my recommendation) and another is having me build him an ErgoDox. The ErgoDox has basically been my endgame keyboard so that's not a bad place to start I guess.

[CPTBadAss]

Colorful keycaps, especially pink keycaps, have roped in many people I've talked to. Especially at meetups or if you're talking to less nerdy people.

I want to say QFR, regardless if they care about the numberpad or backlighting. I just don't understand the need for either of those things...

As you know, keyboards are a very personal thing, so what is right for you might not be right for them. Telling someone oh you don't need this because I don't use it, doesn't encourage them usually. At least in my opinion.

[davkol]

Second-hand Cherry G80. Cheap, good keycaps, easy-to-mod switches.

After that, Filco MJ2 or ErgoDox. Or I just sell them one of my #vintage, but not #rare keyboards.

If they still "require" backlighting and other random gimmicks, I tell them to buy whatever crap they want as long as they won't bother me with it, when it breaks—just like with computers or anything.

[intelli78]

Wouldn't say that this comes up all that often, but when it does, I will discuss form factor, key feel, etc., and usually recommend the QFR if applicable. I think it's got the absolute best bang-for-buck, especially when they run rebates. As per mashby's experience, most people don't "get it," even when I have a board on hand for them to try. When I first tried a mechanical keyboard (Das KB with MX Blues at 2011 CES) I was instantly hooked. To each his own...

[juguerre]

Mostly the same thing that you guys, but with the great "inconvenient" of spanish layout (I'm from Barcelona). There are little options if they really want Spanish layout and they usually don't understand why they should consider other options. Any way I had some success simply letting them use mx-brown keyboard for some days ... then they get a keyboard (leopold fc500r is good option in europe at getdigital.eu) and maybe an ISO ES keyset from wasd.

[CPTBadAss]

If they don't get it, then I show them my fountain pens . Piling the confusion on top of confusion!

But anyways, if they're not into it, they're not into it. I'll still bring it up but less as a evangelist. I think I've gotten friends to buy Razer Blackwidows, Ducky Shines, and Poker 2s. And this fella may go for a Filco. We'll see. I also like the one and done thing like TacticalStashe was recommending. If they're not that into collecting or this hobby, a Filco is a great keyboard and you'll probably not want for anything else.

[Jagriff]

I want to say QFR, regardless if they care about the numberpad or backlighting. I just don't understand the need for either of those things...

As you know, keyboards are a very personal thing, so what is right for you might not be right for them. Telling someone oh you don't need this because I don't use it, doesn't encourage them usually. At least in my opinion.

Yeah the friend of mine that ended up with a WASD was an example. He insisted on having a numberpad. I think I recommended Rosewill (with a warning about the USB problem and volunteering to fix it) and WASD. I think the keycap customization is really what sold him though.

[nrd]

I found it pretty useless to bring the topic up unless someone’s already talking about keyboards in general or about how he needs a new keyboard or something like that. Even then it’s hard to explain how different a mechanical keyboard is to the cheap rubber domes most people are used to.

Recommendations are tricky, because mechanical keyboards are usually way more expensive than what people are willing to spend on a keyboard. Even if they’re interested at first, one look at the price and they think I’m crazy. I don’t really know what to do about that, apart from letting them try out my keyboard for a while so that they can experience the difference for themselves 

I have a spare fullsized board with MX browns now, maybe I’ll start lending it to people …

[dorkvader]

can't beat hall effect, but model Ms are the best for most people in the US.

[epzy]

I basically just ask the same questions as you, CPT. I tend to recommend the QFR a bit more than the Filco MJ2, though.

[bexleycorona]

I recommend a Realforce.

Go big or go home.

[epzy]

I recommend a Realforce.

Go big or go home.

Pff.

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[tribade]

I start by recommending a switch tester, and then a QFR or a ducky for a first board. The lighting seems to attract the people that need a little dissuading from buying razer, so I can save them from the pitfall I made. If they don't care about lighting I always recommend a QFR for the quality and low price. If they don't want to pay for a switch tester I start them on blue switches because they really are a lot of fun and are probably the farthest possible thing from rubberdome keyboards, unless of course they have some reason they can't use a loud keyboard.

[Pacifist]

whatever's cheap

[user 18]

I don't come across such a situation often -- when I do it's online -- but I recommend people find some way to try out switches, then it normally goes like CPT said. QFR, Ducky, Filco, with a nod to the QFTK as well. Never come up against anyone who wanted to buy a 60%, but I like to recommend poker there as well.

[dante]

Recommendation: MechanicalKeyboards.com && BBQ

[Beca]

I recommend to buy a used Leopold or Filco TKL off classifieds. The price would be affordable and both are quality boards. I guess I would be a bit iffy with a Leopold, especially since the spacebar is hard to replace, though...

[CPTBadAss]

Take Leopold space bar off keyboard, put poster putty/blue tack on the Cherry stabilizers, put spacebar back on board, press spacebar until it feels right, enjoy Leopold.

[0100010]

I usually recommend a Unicomp Model M, with the clarifying questions of 101 or 103 key, PS2 or USB and what color in Classc or Ultra size.  Though I have recommended an Ergodox or Kinesis to a couple folks.

[newchemicals]

So far all of my conversations end when folks find out they have to spend more than $10 on a keyboard.

[rowdy]

Unless someone has particular requirements, i just generally recommend QFR (no backlighting) or Ducky (with backlighting).

There is also Ducky Zero without backlighting, and Filco (if the interlocutor has a slightly larger budget).

If budget is not a concern at all, then something Topre.

[BlueBär]

Most people get scared away when I tell what they cost although most find them interesting. They usually say something along the lines of "weird hobby, but could be worse" - and I agree with them!
If I would have to recommend a keyboard I'd ask for the form factor first as well. I think that is the most important factor. As for switches most people seem to be interested in Browns. Personally I think Browns are a good entry switch, most people won't stick with it but afterwards they know what exactly they want.

[Oobly]

It depends a lot on the location of the person and what's available to them, along with helping them decide which form factor suits them and their use case best.

Mostly QFR with Browns (which I consider to be the best "starter" switch) since it's plate mounted MX, acceptable quality, standard layout for keycap compatibility, decently priced and widely available. Also a brand most are familiar with. Sometimes Filco or Ducky, even Matias or HHKB on occasion, depending on the person's requirements and desires.

[HalfCent]

I usually suggest the QFR because of it's price and availability. If they like it, they're likely to be able to ask more specific questions or have a better idea of what they're looking for in feel when they try my boards, and can go from there. If they only feel meh about it, then at least they have a solid board that didn't break the bank.

[Razor Lotus]

I want to say QFR, regardless if they care about the numberpad or backlighting. I just don't understand the need for either of those things...

As you know, keyboards are a very personal thing, so what is right for you might not be right for them. Telling someone oh you don't need this because I don't use it, doesn't encourage them usually. At least in my opinion.

I agree with this.

For me,

60% - poker 2.
Inexpensive TKL starter - QFR
inexpensive TKL - QFR
TKL - Filco
Backlit anything - ducky
Backlit 60% - poker 2 with LED mod. Otherwise ducky.

Where budget isn't an issue - KMAC, Duck boards, GON, etc

and a HHKB where appropriate.

[mouse.the.lucky.dog]

If they don't get it, then I show them my fountain pens . Piling the confusion on top of confusion!

Not a problem for me when I point out that my youngest fountain pen is 12 years old.

[davkol]

Ha, I usually go straight to my perv pointing devices and ask them, if they want to touch my balls (i.e. trackballs) or roll a stick (rollermouse). Or start talking about #vintage headphones.

[0100010]

If they don't get it, then I show them my fountain pens . Piling the confusion on top of confusion!

Not a problem for me when I point out that my youngest fountain pen is 12 years old.

In my case, it is my Fisher Millennium Space Pen (of which I am on my 3rd lifetime warranty replacement, the first one I bought back in 97).

[Photekq]

I'll always suggest G80s, although most of the people I suggest that to hate the retro look and prefer the flashy keyboards with tonnes of LEDs, so that suggestion almost always gets shot down.

[Grendel]

IRL -- QFR/S, QFXT, RK-9000. Excellent price/performance ratio and if they have soldering problems or break I can fix them. If someone wants something more "luxurious", I point them to aftermarket caps. No need for switch testers, I usually carry one around

[Firebolt1914]

Not really a recommendation, but I remind people that in the end, it's all personal preference.

[davkol]

I'll always suggest G80s, although most of the people I suggest that to hate the retro look and prefer the flashy keyboards with tonnes of LEDs, so that suggestion almost always gets shot down.

Yay! I'm not alone...

[CPTBadAss]

If they don't get it, then I show them my fountain pens . Piling the confusion on top of confusion!

Not a problem for me when I point out that my youngest fountain pen is 12 years old.

What pen is that?

I'll always suggest G80s, although most of the people I suggest that to hate the retro look and prefer the flashy keyboards with tonnes of LEDs, so that suggestion almost always gets shot down.

I don't know. Liking Cherry and G80s didn't click for me until I tried one at the first Chicagoland meetup. The newer stuff is an easier sell. But it's not a bad idea for something old school.

[davkol]

The logic is simple: try all kinds of MX switches without any soldering or buying a whole new keyboard.

[CPTBadAss]

Flaw in your logic: You assume people want to try more switches out and get into this hobby. A lot of people are ok once they find their preferred switch. Most of the friends who I've gotten to buy a mechanical keyboard only want one.

Although....I say that with the knowledge that people can just come to my apartment and try out my collection. So maybe it's a bit different.

[davkol]

Flaw in your logic: They need to find their preferred switch first. No, they won't find out, when I just hand them my keyboard or only a switch tester for 5 minutes.

[rowdy]

Many people are so overwhelmed by the choices available in mechanical keyboards, that when migrating from a rubber dome keyboard they are just happy to use the first one they buy.

Later on they might become curious about other switches, or perhaps try a friend's board with different switches.

[davkol]

...and that's exactly the thing to be avoided. Get a G80 for €30, try decent keycaps for the first time in their lives and play with more kinds of switches, make an informed choice for an end-game keyboard.

[CPTBadAss]

...and that's exactly the thing to be avoided. Get a G80 for €30

Damn, you can get a G80 for 30 euros? I wish I could find a 3000 at that price...what models are you buying?

Many people are so overwhelmed by the choices available in mechanical keyboards, that when migrating from a rubber dome keyboard they are just happy to use the first one they buy.

Later on they might become curious about other switches, or perhaps try a friend's board with different switches.

Yup, that's what happened with my friends. They try one of the 4 common MX switches and then just pick their favorite from those. That's it. Most people don't want to do too much research. They get a board with a switch they liked after playing with a sample for 30 minutes and that's it. Nothing wrong with it but most people don't get obsessive and do tons of research. Things like keycaps and profiles don't really bother people. I've found it's mostly about color, layout (100%, TKL, etc), backlighting, and price.

[SpAmRaY]

Most of the time, people like their full size keyboards and are put off by the XT's branding and logos so I haven't been recommending it because of the "gamer" style looks.

Curious about this branding business. My CM XT only has the one CM Storm logo on the edge of the case which isn't visible while using the keyboard. How is that any different than the Filco logo?

[davkol]

Brand new G80-3000 under €60 in Germany. Recycled G80-1800 for €30 from a refurbisher... and there are better deals. Browse old threads at DT to get an idea what it's like to live in Europe.