Online Petition to Unicomp: Please build the Mini.

[wellington1869]

How come his box is ticking?

Thats the sound of its value running down :-/

[xsphat]

How come his box is ticking?

Who's tickling webwits (empty) box?

Dedicated to Jim Owens

[xsphat]

You know, the thing about webwit is he's just misunderstood. I think he just likes ****ing around with people and maybe his humor translates better in person than in print.

So if he gets to you, just close your eyes and envision him typing on his Datahand thingy with his feet and he's naked. It helps.

[wellington1869]

So if he gets to you, just close your eyes and envision him typing on his Datahand thingy with his feet and he's naked. It helps.

rofl, strangely, it does.

[wellington1869]

The whole point of playing a people genetically bypassed on the satire and irony gen is that it should not be understood.

webwit you know as well as we do that what you do isnt "satire and irony" but nihilism. (you raced past cynicism about a 100 miles back).

Hence the concern to keep guns out of your reach.

[xsphat]

My concern is on just what appendage is he wearing that solitary sock ...

And BTW, knee high nylons feel better.

Dedicated to Unicomp

[wellington1869]

Weird. That's what my gf said last night.

well take her word for it if not ours.

(i mean, his word.)

[xsphat]

(i mean, his word.)

lol

[lal]

I hereby officially sign the petition!

[phototristan]

I'll sign too.

[zwmalone]

I'll sign too.

[wheel83]

I am pretty new to Mini's although I have owned about 8 already.  Do you think there will always be a stream of Minis at about 2 per week on ebay?  Or are they going to run out? I mean just how limited were these things?

[wheel83]

I may have to buy one NIB and actually keep it NIB then.

[ch_123]

Now that I think of it, I'd be much happier if they could make me of these.

[MANISH7]

Now that I think of it, I'd be much happier if they could make me of these.

that actually looks so "advanced" with all the different colors and luster to it. people must have been excited with it when it came out in the 80s. looking back, for us, that is a piece of crap but as you're moving forward it's very exciting. people 50 years from now will scorn upon our blu ray, xbox 360, i7, keyboards, etc. but for us, as we are moving forward, all this stuff is really cool.

still, that thing looks cool.

[wheel83]

ya i mean green on black text, green and red keys.  what ever happened to these good ideas? i am being serious.

[wellington1869]

i think it looks pretty great too. it makes me feel like programming something just to be able to work on it.

[IBI]

I'm talking NIB only here. There is only one seller left with a reliable supply and it can't be infinite.  There will ALWAYS be used minis available.  I'm sure there is SOME price that I'll sell mine.  Bidding starts at $999.

Did they ever make an ISO layout mini?

(not that I'd get one, I'm just curious)

[ch_123]

Yep. Lam had two UK ones (made by Unicomp I think when they were still making boards for IBM), and sold one on eBay. I also remember reading an old IBM document that listed all the Model Ms they made, and they supposedly made Canadian French and Latin American Spanish spacesavers in addition to ANSI US. Both of the former would be 85-key ISO layouts.

[DreymaR]

I'd like a tenkeyless SpaceSaver very much. Is it still possible to rerail the thread for a sec so I can say that as loudly as possible? I'll probably send Unicomp Yet Another Nagging Email to that effect while I'm at it, too...

I would want the 88(?)-key (i.e., 105-key without the NumPad) version though; I like my logo keys and need the VK_102 key.

[bigpook]

talking to unicomp is like the sound of one hand clapping.

[wellington1869]

talking to unicomp is like the sound of one hand clapping.

seriously. QFT.

when one talks to unicomp, one learns a lot about oneself, but very little about unicomp

[wellington1869]

I don't understand this. What are you guys babbling about, and why do they never seems to give straight answers? I think if I call them and ask if they sell keyboards the guy is probably going to respond he never saw such a thing.

i bet he would! He's say 'unicomp? there's no such company as unicomp. you must have the wrong number.'

It wouldnt surprise me in the least!

[Rajagra]

I would want the 88(?)-key (i.e., 105-key without the NumPad) version though; I like my logo keys and need the VK_102 key.

I wish a light bulb would go on above manufacturers' heads as they realised there is only one key difference between US and EU layouts (and some minor positioning differences.) Why do they leave out the VK_102 key when they could easily include it? I know the usual position makes it harder to hit left Shift, but it could be put somewhere out of the way. Even this layout should keep most people happy:

[ch_123]

I wish a light bulb would go on above manufacturers' heads as they realised there is only one key difference between US and EU layouts (and some minor positioning differences.) Why do they leave out the VK_102 key when they could easily include it? I know the usual position makes it harder to hit left Shift, but it could be put somewhere out of the way. Even this layout should keep most people happy:

As a recovering ISOaholic, I still think the awkwardness of the right shift has always been largely overexaggerated. That said, I'm not sure why Britain (and by extension Ireland) ended up with such a pointless layout. Standardization politics I guess? Trying to appease our Franco-Belgian Overlords as usual...

[wellington1869]

Jeez, you guys should have talked on the phone to the guys at Unicomp first before trashing them.  They really are all nice guys. Lets see you get better answers from other keyboard manufacturers like Topre, Filco (even through Majestouch the answers have been a bit obscure), Das, IBM (people have tried - remember the whole PLT thing?) and Logitech.

Tread lightly though Welly, I remember Brian!

but some of those manufacturers are now part of this community and answer questions quite promptly. Unicomp really stands out with its obscure silence.

yes, jim owens is great when  you need a free keycap or something. But try asking him about the supposedly-upcoming bs mini. Or any kind of roadmap for unicomp. For years they've had zero  interest in giving a response one way or another. They just ignore such questions. Doesnt seem professional to me.

[Rajagra]

As a recovering ISOaholic, I still think the awkwardness of the right shift has always been largely overexaggerated. That said, I'm not sure why Britain (and by extension Ireland) ended up with such a pointless layout. Standardization politics I guess? Trying to appease our Franco-Belgian Overlords as usual...

The question is not how we got that layout, as it was previously present on terminal and XT keyboards even in the US. The question is why the US managed to jump to a more comfortable layout and we didn't.

XT layout:

[itlnstln]

Well they're not Intel or even Apple. Keyboard manufacturers aren't known for giving roadmaps. Ask Das about the Das4.
 
Let's review new products in 2009 in the Mechanical Keyboard biz:
 
Topre 87U (anyone remember the difference again between the 86U?? - oh yeah,it's black and has the RED ESC key !)
Topre $150 numpad (aimed at banks)
DSI Mac Modular in Black (white one was available earlier)
Deck Tactile in clear cherries, only one LED color and no mini
iRocks 6230
..........everything else was available earlier although EliteKeyboards sure made it easier to get. I didn't count the purple WASD keys as a new product.
 
We'll see if Unicomp has the capital to do new products.

To piggy-back on this:
 
The 87U also had indicator lights integrated on the Lock keys, but yeah, it was basically the same 'board as the 86U.  Not a whole lot of innovation there.  There was also a 55g version of this 'board, but again, that's just a part swap.
 
The DSI modular (even in black and a Windows version) was announced last year.  It took a very long time for it to reach the market.
 
The Tactile Deck is just a parts swap.  Yeah, I guess it's new product, but really, it's just a regular, production Deck and someone threw some clear switches in the hopper.
 
The i-Rocks KR-6230 was announced (and I believe, released) last year in Asia markets, but it just made it to US recently.
 
In actuality, I don't think any quality keyboard manufacturer really does a whole lot of truly "new" products.  In the case of Cherry-based 'boards, all manufacturers do in many cases is just drop some different switches in the manufacturing equipment and, voila, a new keyboard.  Really, other than i-Rocks and DSI, it has been quite some time since a quality keyboard manufacturer has put out a completely redesigned product.  
 
I don't think Unicomp is alone in their apathy towards making truly new products, but there are several factors worth considering:
 
-If it ain't broke don't fix it.  Why screw with a perfectly good design if your customers like it?
 
-Can the market really support your 50 different models?
 
-How much do you stand to lose if your product flops?
 
All of these questions are pretty much related, but think about it.  These keyboards aren't cheap to manufacture.  At least for MS, Logitech, Kensington, et. al., they're making rubber dome 'boards with parts that can be used in several different models.  They are mass produced and cheap to make, so they don't have as much to lose if they have a desgin that flops.  With Topre, Diatec, et. al., their market is much smaller, their product more expensive, and their market much smaller.  Every model they put out has to, basically, be a hit.  I think that's why you don't see a whole lot of innovation and new products in the quality keyboard market.  Once these manufacturers "perfect" a design, they are going to stick with it and maybe only change the color, switch type or where the status lights are.  Now, Unicomp might be a little less bold than these other companies, but in this economy, and in the market they serve, it is somewhat understandable.

[DreymaR]

I know the usual position makes it harder to hit left Shift, but it could be put somewhere out of the way.

Big no to that. As you see in your other thread, I really like that key and wouldn't want to be without it!

Furthermore, I don't see why Americans should have such 'fat fingers' that they can't hit a Shift key that isn't more than 1.5 key widths! Do any of you keep missing the backslash key or find it too hard in any way, for instance? It's all about habit, nothing more. Too bad IBM caved in and went back on their design improvement so we have dual standards on this today.

[itlnstln]

Furthermore, I don't see why Americans should have such 'fat fingers' that they can't hit a Shift key that isn't more than 1.5 key widths! Do any of you keep missing the backslash key or find it too hard in any way, for instance? It's all about habit, nothing more. Too bad IBM caved in and went back on their design improvement so we have dual standards on this today.

It's not that, I hit only a single key-size-width of the Shift key, but I hit the part right next to the Z.  I don't even press the other half of key.  I, for one, don't get bent out of shape on L-shaped Enter keys and a small backspace.

[Rajagra]

We're all agreed then. The ISO key should be included even on US keyboards, but when the US driver is loaded it should act as a shift key.

Win-win situation!

[Bollwerk]

Logitech has lots of other products. If keyboards like the funny Illuminated are flops (which they aren't actually), they just laugh.

Things like the G11/G15 are so cheap to build but cost the same as a G80-3000.

Cherry on the other hand has huge range of Switches not only for Keyboards. The throw some cheap things onto the market which doesn't cost much, but have solid quality. Mostly they make their keyboard money with keyboards for business and industrial applications. I saw special G80-1800 (or G81) at our post office terminals or other offices. Cardreaderversions for doctors and so on. They even have hygienical clean ones for surgery or other places.
Who cares about some Evolutionstreams, which sells good anyway.

Our market here seems to offer Logitech a monopol. If you ask someone about a quality keyboard. Logitech. Or maybe even Cherry but the G15 is on 1# at the top 10.

Microsoft has many other things as well to offer... litte things like windows.^^

Unicomp for example has a problem: The market is small, their products are reliable and their customers don't buy every two years a new one. They don't offer products for the ordinary b00n, like Logitech.

The other thing regarding the mini.
Most people have a picture from a keyboard in their mind. It is has standard-layout and it offers everything they need and they know. Why buy something experimental?
To be frank, Unicomp has to be stupid, to produce a whole range of minis just for some freaks here.

[wellington1869]

unicomp seems to put about as much thought into their product line as they do into their 'website'.

"i criticize because i love."

To be frank, Unicomp has to be stupid, to produce a whole range of minis just for some freaks here

we've discussed this issue to death here. I still say its not just for 'some freaks here', its a chance for them to diversify their product line and *create* new and bigger and wider markets for themselves.  Problem isnt the quality of their product or the existence of the potential market; problem is the near-zero lack of will on the part of unicomp's management. Thats why I always say, if unicomp goes out of business, they will have completely deserved it.

[itlnstln]

Unicomp for example has a problem: The market is small, their products are reliable and their customers don't buy every two years a new one. They don't offer products for the ordinary b00n, like Logitech.

Actually, the problem for them is that they don't offer anything else.  Filco has fullsize, tenkeyless, wireless, blues, browns, blacks, XMs, etc., and there are people on this board that have several different Filcos.  Unicomp has just a couple of models folks are interested in.  They don't offer a Space Saver (Mini), they don't offer any variation on the BS (like a lighter one), they only have two colors (and they can't even do a completely black keyboard without blank keys).  They don't have wireless keyboards.
 
In short, the difference between Unicomp and some of the other, seemingly more successful companies, is that they don't offer much for a geek to want to re-buy.  Most Unicomp buyers might get one or two, but that's about it.  It's not really about longevity so much is that don't offer enough variety to make anyone want to "collect them all," like Diatec (Filco) does so well.

[Bollwerk]

The Problem is probably the Design. Some might love the nostalgical aspect but the ordinary customer wants to have something sleek looking or elegant shaped or whatever.

Most of them sees in those bulky things a decade of computer equipment which is already gone.
They know those designs from very old thing. Why buy something looking old from the beginning?

If can't get the ordinary customer or the professional market... which market can you conquer?

EDIT: Ok. Haven't read the post over me, because I was typing.^^

[Bollwerk]

Is Filco that popular? I don't think, they would even scratch at Logitechs position. They don't have to, though, if they get enough proftit to keep running. Same goes for Unicomp.
How many people would collect 100$-keyboards? I don't expect too many.

Maybe profit is Unicomps problem. If they don't have the money for a complete new process, they won't do that.

[wellington1869]

If can't get the ordinary customer or the professional market... which market can you conquer?

a few freaks on geekhack, thats about it

yes, both diversity and design is what they need - and year after year after year they've refused to produce either, or even just communicate a few words on the question.

In retrospect, the thing that stands out about the NPR interview with unicomp, is their absence of any talk about models or market or plans or potential.  You'd think that would have been a great opportunity for any normal company to plug their upcoming products. Nothing from unicomp, once again.

[wellington1869]

Maybe profit is Unicomps problem. If they don't have the money for a complete new process, they won't do that.

we've talked about that to death too... thats what venture capital is for, but it requires management getting off their dead lazy asses and putting together a market strategy, plans, designs, etc. No plan = no capital.

[itlnstln]

Is Filco that popular? I don't think, they would even scratch at Logitechs position. They don't have to, though, if they get enough proftit to keep running. Same goes for Unicomp.
How many people would collect 100$-keyboards? I don't expect too many.
 
Maybe profit is Unicomps problem. If they don't have the money for a complete new process, they won't do that.

The Asia market is pretty big, and Filco is quite popular there, but that would have to be another hurdle for Unicomp to conquer (exporting mass quanities overseas).  I doubt any quality keyboard manufacturer is as big as MS or Logitech, but in the end, those two give the majority of customers what they want.  That, and they already have large distribution networks to push their product through, so they get good exposure for even the most crappy of their products.
 
Unicomp's business model is a little different since they are a direct seller (they did dabble in some retail outlets in the NE US, thouugh).  Diatec is branching out and letting others retail their products, thus giving them better exposure.  In Asia, you can go to a store to try a Filco.  Unicomp is a US, and I can't go to a store and try one of theirs.  This would be another reason why Logitech and MS do so well with their keyboard products.

[Bollwerk]

Ok. I'm not here for so long, maybe I missed that discussion. :behindsofa:

I know that from Ericsson. They kept building their bulky things (I really liked them) till the end and when everyone had T9, they still just didn't had it.

There are more examples for this. An actual one would be the american car manufacturers. Others improved and looked into the future, but they didn't and suddenly they couldn't sell their big machines anymore.

I can't understand Unicomp either.
I mean Filcoboards look great and other modern mechanical boards have at least a bit design on their side or in case of cherry just don't need to. Unicomp should kept some models for nastalgics and make a new fleet of cool looking ones and more offense marketing.
Imagine a Filco tenkeyless with BS!

Hm, I guess, that aren't new for you, either?^^

[Bollwerk]

Regarding the asia market, I think, it's the opposite in europe. We've got no quality boards here except Cherry, Steelseries and Raptor-Gaming.

You'll never find a mechanical board in a store to try out. Maybe some Steelseries 7g, but that's really all.

[itlnstln]

Ok. I'm not here for so long, maybe I missed that discussion. :behindsofa:
 
I know that from Ericsson. They kept building their bulky things (I really liked them) till the end and when everyone had T9, they still just didn't had it.
 
There are more examples for this. An actual one would be the american car manufacturers. Others improved and looked into the future, but they didn't and suddenly they couldn't sell their big machines anymore.
 
I can't understand Unicomp either.
I mean Filcoboards look great and other modern mechanical boards have at least a bit design on their side or in case of cherry just don't need to. Unicomp should kept some models for nastalgics and make a new fleet of cool looking ones and more offense marketing.
 
Hm, I guess, that aren't new for you, either?^^

That's basically the jist of it.  For example, I already have 2 Model Ms.  There is nothing in the Unicomp line that makes me want to buy one of theirs.  The black isn't that interesting, the IBMs had better-made cases, and the switches aren't really any different.  With Diatec and Topre, I have a choice of color, numpad, switch, wireless (Filco), etc.
 
To a certain extent, you can group Cherry with Unicomp.  Other than switch type, I have no real reason to buy another G80-3000.  I would love a G80-1800 with Cherry browns, but those are difficult to find at best.  The part that set Cherry apart, among other things, is that they supply and license other companies to use their switches.  That might be an avenue that Unicomp should look at.  Perhaps they can license other manufacturers to use their technology.  Although, there are two problems with this for Unicomp.  One, I don't think they have a patented technology to license, and two, since they can't sell BS "units," so to speak, they would have to license the tecnology out and hope people don't make crap BS 'boards.

[wellington1869]

one thing unicomp could do (there's no shortage of things they could do if management ever gets a clue and gets off their ass and does real work) is they could experiment with lighter/quieter springs (hell, by now even ripster has done more work on stuff like that than unicomp management has!).

With lighter/quieter springs they could experiment with what a lot of us were imagining -- a more workplace-friendly bs switch.

its worth an experiment. rather than us with our bandsaws and boscoms, it really should have been unicomp taking the lead with these things.

with a lighter/quieter bs switch design (experimenting with spring resistance, and with spring and barrel materials) they'd maybe be able to patent that, too. and license it out.  And it would be more tactile than cherries and would have a wider market than the original bs switch today.

[itlnstln]

I think Unicomp is focusing on selling to larger OEM customers.

That, and serving as a repair service, especially for older terminals.

[wellington1869]

I think Unicomp is focusing on selling to larger OEM customers.

what oem customers? do we know any corporation that is buying BS boards in quantity? THey're too loud for the average workplace.

now if unicomp experimented with new bs designs and materials and made one suited to the modern workplace, quieter and less resitsance, then maybe they'd GET some large oem customers for a change!

and maybe survive as a viable business!

  Comparing them with Microsoft or Logitech is stretching things quite a bit.  A better comparison is DSI, Keytronics, or TG3.  

but even with the latter comparison unicomp falls short. The last time I spoke with DSI they said they had no shortage of new designs -- and new orders.

  Or loan Unicomp $100K.  

if unicomp management could come up with a creative roadmap, i would!!! I think thats the point, no?

Or create your own Buckling Spring company - the patent has expired.

There's nothing i'd like better. Maybe one day I will. And put unicomp out of business for good

but responses like this only demonstrate how far short unicomp is falling - its already a bs company and isnt doing much to achieve their potential in the marketplace.

[itlnstln]

what oem customers? do we know any corporation that is buying BS boards in quantity? THey're too loud for the average workplace.

Boscom.

[wellington1869]

New designs??  Mac Modular now in black?

um, have you seen how many keyboards dsi offers?
http://www.dsi-keyboards.com/keyboard/pc.php?pid=compact
I counted about 50 models before stopping. Including ergo models, split keyboard models, trackpad and trackball models, left-handed models, wireless models, numpads, gamepads, and so on.
Of these some 11 of them seem to be mechanicals. Again in a variety of designs.

Unicomp doesnt have a chance.

I also love how you disparage DSI's modular one. It was a *huge* redesign and *very* original. I'd give my left arm to see unicomp even approach anything like that.

[wellington1869]

Boscom.

so i'd ask unicomp - are you content with one major oem customer being your lifeline to economic viability?

is it any wonder venture capitalists wont touch them?

they need new designs (and more diverse customer base) urgently.

they wont do it cuz they dont care.

lets face it, unicomp is not all that into keyboards. Some guy inherited the ibm plant and he's going to crank out the original ibm design until the market dries up. At which point he'll retire to his villa in italy and that will be that.

they're not a "real" keyboard company if you ask me.  ie, They're not "in it" to innovate or produce new and exciting and relevant and updated products.

They're in it to milk the bs phenomenon dry and when it dries up they'll leave.

[wellington1869]

Isn't it just the Modular that's mechanical?

no. look at their website.
http://www.dsi-keyboards.com/keyboard/keyboard.php
click on each category, look under the column 'mechanical'.

its true that the modular replaced a host of previous designs (and lets give them credit too for all those previous designs). They used to offer alps and three kinds of cherries. I dont blame them for dropping alps.

[itlnstln]

Can you feel the passion?
 
Welly, I appoint you CEO of Unicomp Inc.