Semi-pro needs a new mouse / Low sensitivity (IE 3.0 Fan)

[fabE]

Hey guys,

my first post here. Sorry for the weird title, thought I'd attention-wh0re a bit to get some hits ;-). Hope no one takes it too seriously.

So I play CS:GO a lot. I have a Zowie EC1 eVo (450 dpi @ 500 hz) atm and I like it a lot. Only problem: I have a pretty low sens (70 cm / 360°) and hit the max skipping speed several times per match - very annoying. I use an SS Qck Heavy.

Therefore, I'm looking for a replacement. I used to love the Intelli Explorer 3.0, but I guess that's not really an option anymore.
I've shortlisted a couple of mice that I might like using geekhack's Mouse Guide 2.0. Most important criteria for me are the sensor (tracking speed) and shape.

- SteelSeries Rival (Had it once, thought I might give it a second go)

- Razer DeathAdder (Had the 2013 version once, also might give it a second chance - which revision tho?)

- Logitech G402 (this gyro-speed prediction technology: does it work?)

- Roccat Kone Military (all I find is a "Camo Change" version - is that it?)


/ The following mice I am interested in, however I don't know enough about them and which sensors they use.

- SteelSeries Sensei (is there no optical one? All I find is a laser version)

- Roccat Kone XTD Optical (which sensor does this one use? Is it any good?)

- SteelSeries Kana V2


// Mice I've tested that I don't like:

- Zowie FK/FK1: too small

- CM Storm Alcor: too small, LoD too high, 800 dpi lowest dpi setting


Hope you guys can help me clear up some of my questions. Feel free to offer other mice I might like.

Thanks!

[munch]

Camo Charge is indeed a Kone Pure Military. Swedish by any chance? if so, komplett.se has them in all colours. free shipping > 749:-
it's a good mouse, a bit small but good.

I'd advise against the Rival since I feel there are better mice.
surprised you hit max tracking rate though, I have an EC2 eVo and it registers >3.5m / second.
Kana v2 is not much bigger than FK1. would not recommend. also sensor not as good apparently.
XTD Optical, not sure about sensor, pure military should be better... not a bad option though.
DeathAdder - nieeeeeet. just not great build quality. wouldn't recommend.
G402 - yes, gyro does work. highly recommended!
Sensei - laser, not good for you fast twitching low sensitivity gamers IMO. accel issues.

other suggestion: Mionix Naos 7000, palm grip 3310 sensor mouse, great build and buttons/scroll wheel. ~5 meters per second max speed I think.

[Zekromtor]

I'm interested to see what you end up with and how you like it. I've been unable to get accustomed to the optical sensor in my CM Storm Recon after using the Sensei Raw for so long. I don't know if I'm just too used to expecting accel or if it's a sensor position issue or what, but I think the position of the sensor can make a big difference for people who do large motions that end up yawing the mouse.

Also, I don't think there's a reason for you to specifically pick a mouse that supports low DPI. In the FPS of your choice you can just compensate with a lower sensitivity setting, the result of which is just more precision. Same can be done in windows and will carry over to the games you play unless you have raw input selected.

[fabE]

Camo Charge is indeed a Kone Pure Military. Swedish by any chance? if so, komplett.se has them in all colours. free shipping > 749:-
it's a good mouse, a bit small but good.

I'd advise against the Rival since I feel there are better mice.
surprised you hit max tracking rate though, I have an EC2 eVo and it registers >3.5m / second.
Kana v2 is not much bigger than FK1. would not recommend. also sensor not as good apparently.
XTD Optical, not sure about sensor, pure military should be better... not a bad option though.
DeathAdder - nieeeeeet. just not great build quality. wouldn't recommend.
G402 - yes, gyro does work. highly recommended!
Sensei - laser, not good for you fast twitching low sensitivity gamers IMO. accel issues.

other suggestion: Mionix Naos 7000, palm grip 3310 sensor mouse, great build and buttons/scroll wheel. ~5 meters per second max speed I think.

Thanks for the komplett.se tip, I'm German tho, so I'll be looking elsewhere.

I'm curious why you don't recommend the Rival, any specific reason?

I have indeed ordered the G402 and I'm looking forward to using it. I did try it in the store, however, and was annoyed by the placement of this weird thumb button.

Sensei: There is no optical version? I know JW (a CS:GO player) uses the Sensei Fnatic edition - is this a laser mouse?

BTW: I use a mix of palm and claw grip: Would the Mionix Naos still be an option?

I'm interested to see what you end up with and how you like it. I've been unable to get accustomed to the optical sensor in my CM Storm Recon after using the Sensei Raw for so long. I don't know if I'm just too used to expecting accel or if it's a sensor position issue or what, but I think the position of the sensor can make a big difference for people who do large motions that end up yawing the mouse.

Also, I don't think there's a reason for you to specifically pick a mouse that supports low DPI. In the FPS of your choice you can just compensate with a lower sensitivity setting, the result of which is just more precision. Same can be done in windows and will carry over to the games you play unless you have raw input selected.

Thanks for your reply. I'll keep you posted on what I end up with!
Concerning DPI: I guess it's just a question of habit, having used low DPI (i.e. 400/450) for many years now.

[Emmiya]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XS8gOiaUDapwy0N5XoW9fp61DpJ_hLCOx789NVUFvdU/htmlview?usp=sharing&sle=true

Not just JW, quite a lot of the CSGO pros use a Sensei(mostly the RAW version though) might be worth giving a shot

Here's a bit more of an in depth look at the mice with sensors and all their statistics

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZzbKDmFOqsP_ut2RdctD01OEbZzbXol6HLwqVkSmZcg/edit#gid=0

[Zekromtor]

Concerning DPI: I guess it's just a question of habit, having used low DPI (i.e. 400/450) for many years now.

I'm not suggesting you get used to a different setting, I'm saying you can have essentially the exact same feel (amount of pixels moved per inch on your mousepad) as you do with your current settings simply by offsetting the higher DPI with a <1 sensitivity multiplier.

After you think you've gotten used to a new mouse and to benchmark an existing one, try this test http://aim400kg.ru/en/fa/
It's tough as hell IMO. I was able to average 30 hits with my Sensei Raw, but I'm stuck at about 20 with my optical CM Storm Recon. Get about 20 with my wacom tablet as well. I'd recommend zooming in to offset resolution differences (it'd be easier for people with low res monitors otherwise).

[fabE]

Concerning DPI: I guess it's just a question of habit, having used low DPI (i.e. 400/450) for many years now.

I'm not suggesting you get used to a different setting, I'm saying you can have essentially the exact same feel (amount of pixels moved per inch on your mousepad) as you do with your current settings simply by offsetting the higher DPI with a <1 sensitivity multiplier.

After you think you've gotten used to a new mouse and to benchmark an existing one, try this test http://aim400kg.ru/en/fa/
It's tough as hell IMO. I was able to average 30 hits with my Sensei Raw, but I'm stuck at about 20 with my optical CM Storm Recon. Get about 20 with my wacom tablet as well. I'd recommend zooming in to offset resolution differences (it'd be easier for people with low res monitors otherwise).

I understand, I had to compensate for the CM Storm Alcor's 800 dpi by basically halving my sensitivity. Only issue here is that I then reach the 0.XX sensitivity range, so there's not much room to play with.

Tested that site - pretty tough ;-)

[JinDesu]

I have the Rival and it has some oddities to how it functions at times, when moving it slowly and minutely. I like it because of the rubber sides (which is an OCD thing for me).

I also had the Sensei and my scroll button died in about a year and a half. After it did, I looked online and it's a common Sensei issue. Not sure if that matters to you.

[munch]

yeah well the Sensei isn't a terrible mouse, but I'm sure they'd play better if they had something like the FK1

do you touch the thumb button on the G402? because if not, then I don't think it would be a problem. didn't seem to be in the way at all for me. do you plan to use it?

Rival just doesn't have as good build quality and the rubber coating seems to wear out a bit too quickly. and it's really heavy... which may or may not be a problem for you

I don't think the Naos would work too well with claw no, unfortunately.

[Puddsy]

I normally ignore this forum, but this thread was at the top so I thought I'd drop in.

I played ESEA Invite TF2 for 3 seasons as a medic. In that time, I met a lot of CS players and DotA players. Most of the CS players leaned towards the Steelseries Sensei and the Zowie FK1.

As far as I could tell, the egg-shaped nature of these mice (I use a sensei myself) lends nicely to the ever popular claw grip (which I use). The shape of these mice also allows for easy access to side buttons, which can be used for PTT, autobuy, and other binds.

[fabE]

So my G402 arrived. I don't think we will become friends.

The general shape is alright, however I very much dislike the "button overload" on the left side. Side buttons are very sharply edged and protrude quite a bit, and the worst part is the thumb button on the left which is exactly where my thumb would normally rest. So I'm holding on to a button instead of the mouse itself, I feel like I don't have as much control.
Also, the scroll wheel has very small, "hard" steps (if that makes sense). It feels a little finicky ingame and didn't register all of my weapon switches. Apart from that, build quality and button clicks are fine (not very crisp though). Concerning the Fusion Engine: It did actually work, as far as I can tell, so that's a big plus! All in all though, not my mouse unfortunately.

Next on the list is the Roccat. I'll keep you guys posted.

[cookie]

Searching for a good replacement too... have tried almost every mose who is close to the IE3. The Logitech MX518/G400 is the only one who comes close to it. But I don't like the form

My problem is that I just want my IE3, 400 DPI, Plug&Play, no drivers, no bull****...
If I could get a mouse exactely like the IE3 but with a crisp and nice mouse wheel and thumb buttons. Lightweight but solid build quality.
I'd buy 10 straigt away!

[fabE]

Searching for a good replacement too... have tried almost every mose who is close to the IE3. The Logitech MX518/G400 is the only one who comes close to it. But I don't like the form

My problem is that I just want my IE3, 400 DPI, Plug&Play, no drivers, no bull****...
If I could get a mouse exactely like the IE3 but with a crisp and nice mouse wheel and thumb buttons. Lightweight but solid build quality.
I'd buy 10 straigt away!

Same here. I did try the IE 3.0s from eBay (Hong Kong...) but they didn't last very long, as expected. It's a shame they don't make them anymore.

[cookie]

Yesterday my DA somehow changed its DPI during a CS:GO competitive match. That was the K.O for the mouse, I am plugging in my IE3 back in.
The last hope is to modify the IE3, but currently I don't have the time for this.

[munch]

Searching for a good replacement too... have tried almost every mose who is close to the IE3. The Logitech MX518/G400 is the only one who comes close to it. But I don't like the form

My problem is that I just want my IE3, 400 DPI, Plug&Play, no drivers, no bull****...
If I could get a mouse exactely like the IE3 but with a crisp and nice mouse wheel and thumb buttons. Lightweight but solid build quality.
I'd buy 10 straigt away!

did you try the EC1 eVo? or do you also hit the max speed?
it's weird because the IE3.0 should have way lower max speed than the EC1 eVo....

[exit]

The XTD Optical uses the same sensor on the DeathAdder 2013, the S3988.

[cookie]

@munch: They are actually not that easy to get over here in Germany. And I never reached the point where my IE3 can't handle fast movement, and I am a verry low sensitivity guy.

[munch]

@munch: They are actually not that easy to get over here in Germany. And I never reached the point where my IE3 can't handle fast movement, and I am a verry low sensitivity guy.

really? I've seen them go for ~60 on amazon.de - http://www.amazon.de/ZOWIE-EC1-eVo-Pro-Gaming-Maus/dp/B00H5CVKHS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1412182468&sr=8-2&keywords=zowie+ec1+evo
for example! if it's not too much, it's definitely worth a try IMO.

[fabE]

The XTD Optical uses the same sensor on the DeathAdder 2013, the S3988.

Which means it's actually a good sensor, right? As in no prediction, no acceleration etc...? Might be worth a try then.

@munch: They are actually not that easy to get over here in Germany. And I never reached the point where my IE3 can't handle fast movement, and I am a verry low sensitivity guy.

In fact, they're pretty easy to get ;-) Check out Caseking.de: http://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/Eingabegeraete/Maeuse/Maeuse-ZOWIE:::11051_161_10607.html

[munch]

right, no prediction or accel, but reported very overly smoothed on old firmware on the DA13, so could be worth trying out the sensor first to get a feel of it.

[fabE]

Nice, will try that one out then.

So I've been playing with the Roccat Kone Pure Military (Camo Charge) yesterday. It looks to be an all around great mouse.

Sensor is great, no issues however and never hit the max skipping speed. Build quality is really solid also, button clicks and scroll wheel feel high quality.
This may be a real alternative. One slight downside for me is the size, being just a tad too small for comfort. Still bearable tho.

The Sensei Raw arrived today and I'm giving it a go right now. At first glance, it has a nice size to it, but the sensor does not seem to keep up - skipping is the result. Very unfortunate.

[Zekromtor]

Great feedback on the mice. Keep it coming

It looks like the kone has the sensor pretty far forward, which is something I've been looking for in a mouse. Can you confirm this?

[fabE]

Great feedback on the mice. Keep it coming

It looks like the kone has the sensor pretty far forward, which is something I've been looking for in a mouse. Can you confirm this?

Sure will ;-)

The sensor on the Kone Military is just slightly placed forward. I just measured, the length at the bottom (center) is 10.5 cm, sensor is at 6 cm. So 57/43% towards the front.

It's disappointing the Sensei only has this Laser sensor, I actually quite like the shape and size. Pretty comfortable for my palm/claw grip. Build quality-wise it's definitely worse than the Roccat. The scroll wheel is very similar though for both in terms of overall feel, just a bit more flimsy on the Sensei. I like the softer Mouse 3 (scroll wheel) click though on the Sensei.
Overall the Roccat feels tighter and a bit higher quality, although the Sensei is quite nice also.

I wish I could implant a flawless optical sensor into the Sensei ;-).

[Zekromtor]

Yeah I know what you mean. I actually ordered a kone military based on how you described it. I prefer slightly smaller mice in spite of my large hands for a claw/finger tip grip. I like a lot of room to be able to pull a mouse into my palm for rearward travel and went so far as to chop off the ass of my sensei. Shame about the laser and about the scrollwheel that goes to crap so quickly.

[fabE]

Yeah I know what you mean. I actually ordered a kone military based on how you described it. I prefer slightly smaller mice in spite of my large hands for a claw/finger tip grip. I like a lot of room to be able to pull a mouse into my palm for rearward travel and went so far as to chop off the ass of my sensei. Shame about the laser and about the scrollwheel that goes to crap so quickly.

Wow...I hope you're not disappointed ;-) Well that's an interesting technique.

Hope the XTD Optical lives up to my expectations.

[Zekromtor]

So what does the XTD offer you that the military does not? Isn't it the same size?

[fabE]

So what does the XTD offer you that the military does not? Isn't it the same size?

No, it's much bigger.

[Zekromtor]

Ah k good. I ordered the right one. Can always mod it with some foam if too small =)

[sobe]

*edit*

Hope you like the new toy

[fabE]

Ah k good. I ordered the right one. Can always mod it with some foam if too small =)

Are there guides on how to do that? Or how would you go about doing it?

[Zekromtor]

I don't know of any guides, but you can get some cheap foam at a hardware store that is high density with small cells that can be shaped very easily with razors and sandpaper, then it's just a matter of fixing it to the mouse exterior with glue. Glue made for cloth sticks well enough to plastic, but can peel off if needed, so that's a good choice I think.

Are there any good rubber sprays out there? I wonder if they'd make for a suitable exterior...

[fabE]

I don't know of any guides, but you can get some cheap foam at a hardware store that is high density with small cells that can be shaped very easily with razors and sandpaper, then it's just a matter of fixing it to the mouse exterior with glue. Glue made for cloth sticks well enough to plastic, but can peel off if needed, so that's a good choice I think.

Are there any good rubber sprays out there? I wonder if they'd make for a suitable exterior...

Wow, you're really serious about your modding ;-). Do you have any pics of mice you've used foam on?

// BTW: Anyone got info on the Mionix Avior 7000/SK? Look interesting...

[Zekromtor]

I haven't actually used foam, just epoxy putty which ended up adding too much weight so I wouldn't recommend.

I have the kone military in my hand now and I have to agree, it is a damn nice mouse. I like these smaller mice, the other one I was considering was the Zowie Mico, another small mouse and SC2 pros seem to really like it. They also really like the Logitech G9X which is laser, so I don't know what the deal is. SC2 is not an FPS, it may benefit from a micro amount of laser accel.

I had just started to get my hits per game average up on fast aiming to the 24 mark so naturally I had to switch pointing devices like the fool I am. We'll see if I can adjust... at 15 now with the military.

[munch]

avior 7000 feels very similar to the KPM, maybe a little snappier, but also a bit heavier and larger... which is what you want. though quite narrow in the front like the KPM as well. worth looking into, but do take notice of your desired grip and see if the narrow front works with it.

[Johan]

I haven't actually used foam, just epoxy putty which ended up adding too much weight so I wouldn't recommend.

I have the kone military in my hand now and I have to agree, it is a damn nice mouse. I like these smaller mice, the other one I was considering was the Zowie Mico, another small mouse and SC2 pros seem to really like it. They also really like the Logitech G9X which is laser, so I don't know what the deal is. SC2 is not an FPS, it may benefit from a micro amount of laser accel.

I had just started to get my hits per game average up on fast aiming to the 24 mark so naturally I had to switch pointing devices like the fool I am. We'll see if I can adjust... at 15 now with the military.

It not so much that its beneficial to have accel with rts games, its more about how insignificant it becomes with games like starcraft. The g9x is fairly similar to the classic logitech mini optical in size and shape, which is the mouse that pretty much every broodwar pro used, same reason why people use the zowie mico(hoping for a v2 version of this mouse.)
In Starcraft your mouse settings are irrelevant as long as you can click/select units. A great example would be Naniwa or Dimaga, both are pros that use/have used windows acceleration when playing. If you are a starcraft/rts player its much more important to find a mouse that works well with your hand and has switches that you enjoy, the sensor performance becomes a later priority.

[fabE]

avior 7000 feels very similar to the KPM, maybe a little snappier, but also a bit heavier and larger... which is what you want. though quite narrow in the front like the KPM as well. worth looking into, but do take notice of your desired grip and see if the narrow front works with it.

Thanks, kind of what I wanted to hear! I like the feel of the KPM, just need it to be a little bigger.

The Kone XTD Optical arrived today, and I'm a little disappointed :-/. It's quite a bit larger, which I like. However, it feels much more heavy, hefty even. Not much fun to use :-(. I didn't have the feeling that it hits max speed, but the sensor felt better on the KPM. I think the XTD Optical has smoothing.

Guess I'll give the Mionix Avior a go.

[Zekromtor]

I haven't actually used foam, just epoxy putty which ended up adding too much weight so I wouldn't recommend.

I have the kone military in my hand now and I have to agree, it is a damn nice mouse. I like these smaller mice, the other one I was considering was the Zowie Mico, another small mouse and SC2 pros seem to really like it. They also really like the Logitech G9X which is laser, so I don't know what the deal is. SC2 is not an FPS, it may benefit from a micro amount of laser accel.

I had just started to get my hits per game average up on fast aiming to the 24 mark so naturally I had to switch pointing devices like the fool I am. We'll see if I can adjust... at 15 now with the military.

It not so much that its beneficial to have accel with rts games, its more about how insignificant it becomes with games like starcraft. The g9x is fairly similar to the classic logitech mini optical in size and shape, which is the mouse that pretty much every broodwar pro used, same reason why people use the zowie mico(hoping for a v2 version of this mouse.)
In Starcraft your mouse settings are irrelevant as long as you can click/select units. A great example would be Naniwa or Dimaga, both are pros that use/have used windows acceleration when playing. If you are a starcraft/rts player its much more important to find a mouse that works well with your hand and has switches that you enjoy, the sensor performance becomes a later priority.

I think you're right about your reasons for those mice being popular. I still think a near 0 accel is important for god tier micro, however, which requires lots of snapping. I don't know much about Dimaga, but Naniwa is specifically known for doing well in spite of his low APM.

[cookie]

I still believe there is no better mouse then the IE3
Rubberized surface is something I don't like verry much, I prefere a rough and hard finish. But It's always a matter of taste.

[fabE]

Right, so the Kone XTD Optical is definitely not for me. Too heavy, the mouse glides were terrible, it was scratchy at first and then felt like pushing around a medium-sized boat.
Size-wise it actually was what I was looking for, but the overall heavy feel to it just wasn't right. Also the sensor was smoothing a lot, felt pretty detached.

I'm trying out the Mionix Avior now, will keep you posted.

[Zekromtor]

That sucks. The kone mice definitely use a thick/dense plastic for their outer shell (I took it apart and it's about 65% or more of the mouse's weight), but even so, if you like a large mouse you may have trouble finding one that is light enough for you to be truly happy.

[munch]

Right, so the Kone XTD Optical is definitely not for me. Too heavy, the mouse glides were terrible, it was scratchy at first and then felt like pushing around a medium-sized boat.
Size-wise it actually was what I was looking for, but the overall heavy feel to it just wasn't right. Also the sensor was smoothing a lot, felt pretty detached.

I'm trying out the Mionix Avior now, will keep you posted.

do try out the Beta Firmware for the Avior, as it reduces smoothing-processing a little it seems!

http://support.mionix.net/attachments/token/StgFKe057udK4uqsjt4NQxSYg/?name=AVIOR7000+firmware+version+V3.08.zip

Unfortunately i have not got the bugreport on this current firmware update that i am sending you. This is v.3.08 for the AVIOR 7000. Try it out see if it works out. Before installing the new firmware remove all current software and firmware. Thne set the mouse into bootloader mode.

To set the mouse in to bootloader mode, please do the following:

1: Hold down the right mouse button, left mouse button and the scrollwheel button at the same time.

2: While you are holding the buttons, plug the mouse in to your USB port.

3: The Logo LED and the Scroll wheel LED of the mouse should now be blinking.

4: Then run the new firmware update software that can be found in your Mionix folder."

Kind regards,
Mionix

[cookie]

Right, so the Kone XTD Optical is definitely not for me. Too heavy, the mouse glides were terrible, it was scratchy at first and then felt like pushing around a medium-sized boat.
Size-wise it actually was what I was looking for, but the overall heavy feel to it just wasn't right. Also the sensor was smoothing a lot, felt pretty detached.

I'm trying out the Mionix Avior now, will keep you posted.

do try out the Beta Firmware for the Avior, as it reduces smoothing-processing a little it seems!

http://support.mionix.net/attachments/token/StgFKe057udK4uqsjt4NQxSYg/?name=AVIOR7000+firmware+version+V3.08.zip

Unfortunately i have not got the bugreport on this current firmware update that i am sending you. This is v.3.08 for the AVIOR 7000. Try it out see if it works out. Before installing the new firmware remove all current software and firmware. Thne set the mouse into bootloader mode.

To set the mouse in to bootloader mode, please do the following:

1: Hold down the right mouse button, left mouse button and the scrollwheel button at the same time.

2: While you are holding the buttons, plug the mouse in to your USB port.

3: The Logo LED and the Scroll wheel LED of the mouse should now be blinking.

4: Then run the new firmware update software that can be found in your Mionix folder."

Kind regards,
Mionix

Wow I feel sick wen I read this...

[fabE]

Right, so the Kone XTD Optical is definitely not for me. Too heavy, the mouse glides were terrible, it was scratchy at first and then felt like pushing around a medium-sized boat.
Size-wise it actually was what I was looking for, but the overall heavy feel to it just wasn't right. Also the sensor was smoothing a lot, felt pretty detached.

I'm trying out the Mionix Avior now, will keep you posted.

do try out the Beta Firmware for the Avior, as it reduces smoothing-processing a little it seems!

[...]

Kind regards,
Mionix

Thanks for the tip, actually I quite liked the sensor. However, the Avior itself/shape is not for me unfortunately. When palm-clawing, my ring finger covers the right side buttons which feels uncomfortable. Other than that, it feels like a real solid mouse.

So the journey continues...I still have hope to one day find that one rodent that is made for me.

[fuzzybaffy]

I wish I could implant a flawless optical sensor into the Sensei ;-).

Isn't that basically what a Zowie FK1 is? Or have you tried the FK1 already? I know you said the "FK/FK1" is too small, but I'm thinking maybe you were just referring to the regular FK.

Apparently the FK1 was made to address people's criticisms of the original FK being too small. If you haven't tried it, maybe it'll work for you.

[fabE]

I wish I could implant a flawless optical sensor into the Sensei ;-).

Isn't that basically what a Zowie FK1 is? Or have you tried the FK1 already? I know you said the "FK/FK1" is too small, but I'm thinking maybe you were just referring to the regular FK.

Apparently the FK1 was made to address people's criticisms of the original FK being too small. If you haven't tried it, maybe it'll work for you.

I've had both the FK and FK1, both too small :-/

[fabE]

So a quick update here.

Had the Mionix Avior SK here and it's very uncomfortable for me to grip. My ring finger went across the right side buttons which was very awkward. The side buttons themselves protrude quite a bit, also they're quite sharp-edged which didn't help. All in all not a great shape for my gripping style. No complaints sensor-wise.

At the moment I'm giving the SteelSeries Rival a second chance, and I must say: I can't remember why I got rid of it in the first place. Shape and size, plus the Avage 3310 leave little to be desired for. I think I'll be sticking to this for the time being. However I still must say: Concerning build quality, the KPM has the edge.

Here's a pic of some of the mice I've been experimenting with:

[divito]

Why isn't a 3.0 an option anymore?

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.Xintellimouse+3.0&_nkw=intellimouse+3.0&_sacat=0

I got a few off there awhile back to stock up for when they eventually disappear.

[fabE]

Why isn't a 3.0 an option anymore?

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.Xintellimouse+3.0&_nkw=intellimouse+3.0&_sacat=0

I got a few off there awhile back to stock up for when they eventually disappear.

Ye as I mentioned earlier, I did try out a Hong Kong IE 3.0. Didn't last.

[divito]

Ye as I mentioned earlier, I did try out a Hong Kong IE 3.0. Didn't last.

Oh, are you the same person that posted before?

But, those aren't all HK though. For $15-27, it's worth finding perfection again.

[Lethal Squirrel]

I have the KANA V1 white version and it's a fantastic low sensitivity mouse. I have it paired with a Artisan Hayate mousepad and it tracks so beautifully!

I have had the Deathadder, Steelseries Ikari laser and optical, Steelseries sensei, Logitech G9, Logitech G400 and a few others and I think this one is my favorite.