Author Topic: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions  (Read 719662 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Arch4Life

  • Posts: 22
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5450 on: Sat, 27 February 2021, 08:47:46 »
begs the question: is rama a novelty or an artisan?

Does anyone use artisan keycaps on their work keyboards?
well, if it a metal artisan from RAMA, i don't mind using it on work board lol

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
well, they claimed it's an artisan, so...
https://drop.com/buy/rama-works-x-nautilus-nightmares-artisan-keycap

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Online yui

  • Posts: 748
  • Location: 127.0.0.1 (in azerty)
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5451 on: Mon, 01 March 2021, 02:40:59 »
Typing is more important than handwriting by a factor of 1,000,000,000
i do agree, and not only because i can't write to save my life :)
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 5997
  • Location: 35°55'N, 83°53'W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5452 on: Mon, 01 March 2021, 08:41:15 »

well, they claimed it's an artisan, so...
https://drop.com/buy/rama-works-x-nautilus-nightmares-artisan-keycap


I am not into that sort of stuff, but I like that one!
The problem is deeper than reporters asking tough questions of both sides, but the view of politics these questions reflect. Simply put, this view is the one that Trump rode to victory on and built his cult with.
Democrats and progressives want politics to be about policies that will help Americans and solve problems; Trumpists want to make politics about lies, insults, personalities and tribal warfare, so that the American people continue to believe that politics is just a sideshow that has nothing to do with their lives.
Journalists should hold politicians accountable on both sides of the aisle, but they should do so in substantive ways, not by asking irrelevant questions that look more like gotcha oppo research than substantive questions about policy. At a deeper level, the choices that journalists and media companies make right now will have an important impact on whether we as a nation are able to rise from the destruction of January 6th to revitalize our democracy, or to slide helplessly into fascism.
– “Arizona Blues” 2021

Offline alertArchitect

  • Posts: 56
  • Location: The Void, KY, United States
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5453 on: Tue, 02 March 2021, 09:32:27 »
Typing is more important than handwriting by a factor of 1,000,000,000
i do agree, and not only because i can't write to save my life :)

I can write well (it's not the nicest to look at but it's still very legible), but I can definitely confirm that typing skill has a larger impact on your life than writing skill.

Offline achikin

  • Posts: 3
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5454 on: Tue, 02 March 2021, 16:46:36 »
I have tried: Ergodox, X-Bows, Planck, and a bunch of more conventional mechanical keyboards over the course of ten years. I do realize that most of the following has already come up in this 100-page topic, but I think it's a good place to dump my unpopular kbd concerns.

1. Mechanical switches have nothing to do with ergonomics. They are bulky, they are high and they have too much travel. The only reason they are connected to ergonomics is that this is the only type of switch you can use for DIY.

2. Ortholinear is overrated.

3. Most of the claims about keyboards' ergonomics are false.

4. Thumb clusters are not comfortable. Yes, your thumb is the biggest, the strongest, and the most agile finger, but it is an opposite finger and it is not supposed for side movements.

5. The best keyboard you can buy is Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Desktop - split, wireless, low-profile, short spacebar, big modifiers, embedded wrist rest, tented and negative tilted out of the box. Costs around 80$-100$. Considered bad in the community because "it's not mechanical and ortholinear haha".

6. 60%, 40%, moving common symbols to layers is not worth it. Pressing several function buttons instead of stretching your hand a bit is less comfortable and ergonomic. "Do leave your home row" does not make sense - what's wrong with moving your hands a little bit?

7. Many people judge keyboards by typing speed, but how many of them HAVE to type that fast? Same for different layouts and measuring "finger travel distance" - are you traveling that much?

8. Wrist rests, comfortable hand position, ease of pressing hotkeys - is much more valuable but is omitted by most of the keyboard makers.

9. Switches. There are hundreds of them, all different, you should lube and change springs and still, a lot of people are not very happy with their choice and looking for something better. Does not that mean that all of them are bad by design? Have you ever heard about someone whining about his forks and buying more and more different forks to find "the right one"?

Offline azzipa

  • Posts: 212
  • Location: USA
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5455 on: Tue, 02 March 2021, 17:49:57 »
I hold the (apparently) unpopular opinion that handwriting is superior to typing. I suppose it depends on why you need to transcribe and archive information. As a father I have watched my children learn and grow. Hand writing unquestionably leads to greater retention of new concepts. But don't just take my word for it:

Quote
"When people type their notes, they have this tendency to try to take verbatim notes and write down as much of the lecture as they can," Mueller tells NPR's Rachel Martin. "The students who were taking longhand notes in our studies were forced to be more selective — because you can't write as fast as you can type. And that extra processing of the material that they were doing benefited them."

Quote
If you learn well typing, you absolutely should! The overlaps between the [typists vs. writers] was large for almost every metric studied. The performance of the student mattered more than how they took notes. Therefore, we recommend that students should stick with what they do best. But, if you're on the fence, consider writing. It's low tech, it can be ugly for those with terrible handwriting, and it's pretty slow. But, in the end, you may just end up learning more.

Quote
The research by Mueller and Oppenheimer serves as a reminder, however, that even when technology allows us to do more in less time, it does not always foster learning.  Learning involves more than the receipt and the regurgitation of information.

Quote
Writing notes by hand generally improves your understanding of the material and helps you remember it better, since writing it down involves deeper cognitive-processing of the material than typing it... Despite the fact that typing notes on a computer doesn’t promote as much cognitive processing of the material, typing notes and writing them by hand are both valid note-taking methods, and each can be preferable in different situations, as they both have their advantages and disadvantages.

In a similar vein, a couple of other parents and I convinced our kids' school to drop iPads. They are great for consuming information but much less effective as a creative tool. But this is an unpopular opinion for another time.


Typing is more important than handwriting by a factor of 1,000,000,000
i do agree, and not only because i can't write to save my life :)

I can write well (it's not the nicest to look at but it's still very legible), but I can definitely confirm that typing skill has a larger impact on your life than writing skill.

Offline ideus

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 7956
  • Location: In the middle of nowhere.
  • Björkö.
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5456 on: Tue, 02 March 2021, 18:49:21 »
Someone that does not type cannot survive in this digital era.

Offline azzipa

  • Posts: 212
  • Location: USA
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5457 on: Tue, 02 March 2021, 20:23:17 »
Someone that does not type cannot survive in this digital era.

I encourage you to think more broadly. For some, digital is a death sentence. COVID is only making this worse as social links are broken. Teen depression and suicide rates are climbing beyond comprehension. We are losing an entire generation. (Not saying typing is the reason, but digital survival might not mean what you think it does.)

For too many kids and young adults, this is not the way.


Cyber Bullying

Approximately 34% of students report experiencing cyberbullying during their lifetime (Hinduja & Patchin, 2015)

Over 60% of students who experience cyberbullying reported that it immensely impacted their ability to learn and feel safe while at school (Hinduja, 2018)

59% of U.S. teens have been bullied or harassed online, and over 90% believe it's a major problem for people their age (Pew Research Center, 2018)


Self-Harm

Targets of cyberbullying are at a greater risk than others of both self-harm and suicidal behaviors (John et al., 2018)

Approximately 18% of youth report self-harming at least once, impacting 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 10 boys (Monto, McRee, & Deryck, 2018)

About 6% of students have digitally self-harmed, or anonymously posted online or shared hurtful content about oneself  (Patchin & Hinduja, 2017)


Suicide

Students who experienced bullying or cyberbullying are nearly 2 times more likely to attempt suicide (Hinduja & Patchin, 2018)

Current research suggests that suicide ideation and attempts among adolescents have nearly doubled since 2008 (Plemmons et al., 2018), making suicide is the 2nd leading cause of death for individuals 10-34 years of age (CDC, 2017)

Approximately 1 in 20 adolescents experience a suicide in single year (Andriessen, Dudley, Draper, & Mitchell, 2018)


Quote
TL/DR: none of the above sources reflect the impact of COVID restrictions. Read about teen disengagement here. Also, read here about "scores of students are getting F's: what's the point of failing them during COVID-19?" They may need to type to be in the work force, but first they have to get through school.

Online yui

  • Posts: 748
  • Location: 127.0.0.1 (in azerty)
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5458 on: Wed, 03 March 2021, 01:53:45 »
Cyber Bullying
Approximately 34% of students report experiencing cyberbullying during their lifetime (Hinduja & Patchin, 2015)
Over 60% of students who experience cyberbullying reported that it immensely impacted their ability to learn and feel safe while at school (Hinduja, 2018)
59% of U.S. teens have been bullied or harassed online, and over 90% believe it's a major problem for people their age (Pew Research Center, 2018)
i am pretty sure proper bullying ain't better be it as numbers or for mental health... not that i know for experience or anything that 2nd part but i was in France were bulling can carry a prison sentence, not in the US were bulling is the social norm... i am sorry but bullies will be bullies online or offline, just need to tighten on them, if they end up serving either social service or prison sentence they may start to think twice about bullying the next guy... and some on the internet will tell you that saying hi and how are you to a woman on the street is rape, so what is bullying to them...
and none of that has anything to do in this thread...
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13176
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5459 on: Wed, 03 March 2021, 05:31:04 »
Cyber Bullying
Approximately 34% of students report experiencing cyberbullying during their lifetime (Hinduja & Patchin, 2015)
Over 60% of students who experience cyberbullying reported that it immensely impacted their ability to learn and feel safe while at school (Hinduja, 2018)
59% of U.S. teens have been bullied or harassed online, and over 90% believe it's a major problem for people their age (Pew Research Center, 2018)
i am pretty sure proper bullying ain't better be it as numbers or for mental health... not that i know for experience or anything that 2nd part but i was in France were bulling can carry a prison sentence, not in the US were bulling is the social norm... i am sorry but bullies will be bullies online or offline, just need to tighten on them, if they end up serving either social service or prison sentence they may start to think twice about bullying the next guy... and some on the internet will tell you that saying hi and how are you to a woman on the street is rape, so what is bullying to them...
and none of that has anything to do in this thread...

The internet may well magnify the total Bully-ing Bandwidth that a young person is exposed to.

But overall, we're very much into the Behavioral Sink phase of societal decay.  It's to be expected that a huge percentage of hughmahns become rabid.

This is primarily a failure of THE STATE to inspire the younger generation w/ meaningful social goals.

What we're acting out as of current is the END GAME of CAPITALISM.   This is our natural conclusion.  As long as we continue to model VALUE in the current form (Hedonic Output),  Equal unhappiness will be generated w/ happiness.   This is the default Modulation of the hedonic loop in every thinking being.

It's not possible to cut off the internet, or prevent its uptake/ use.  That's like cutting off the hand to fix a broken finger. Or gastic bypass, etc.   It won't work, as it's only symptom relief without addressing the CAUSE.

We have to change our Value system. Not Stop-Typing.

To Think that you can improve people's lives by taking them off the internet is in itself myopic. They'll just find ways to be unhappy elsewhere, the underlying broken value system is pervasive in every arena of life.


Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 5997
  • Location: 35°55'N, 83°53'W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5460 on: Wed, 03 March 2021, 08:17:48 »

This is primarily a failure of THE STATE to inspire the younger generation w/ meaningful social goals.

What we're acting out as of current is the END GAME of CAPITALISM.


I generally agree with this. As a "child of the 1960s" aka "the Space Age" I consider myself extremely fortunate to be among the last to grow up with a great education and optimistic aspirations for the future.
 
The problem is deeper than reporters asking tough questions of both sides, but the view of politics these questions reflect. Simply put, this view is the one that Trump rode to victory on and built his cult with.
Democrats and progressives want politics to be about policies that will help Americans and solve problems; Trumpists want to make politics about lies, insults, personalities and tribal warfare, so that the American people continue to believe that politics is just a sideshow that has nothing to do with their lives.
Journalists should hold politicians accountable on both sides of the aisle, but they should do so in substantive ways, not by asking irrelevant questions that look more like gotcha oppo research than substantive questions about policy. At a deeper level, the choices that journalists and media companies make right now will have an important impact on whether we as a nation are able to rise from the destruction of January 6th to revitalize our democracy, or to slide helplessly into fascism.
– “Arizona Blues” 2021

Offline alertArchitect

  • Posts: 56
  • Location: The Void, KY, United States
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5461 on: Wed, 03 March 2021, 10:01:21 »

The internet may well magnify the total Bully-ing Bandwidth that a young person is exposed to.

But overall, we're very much into the Behavioral Sink phase of societal decay.  It's to be expected that a huge percentage of hughmahns become rabid.

This is primarily a failure of THE STATE to inspire the younger generation w/ meaningful social goals.

What we're acting out as of current is the END GAME of CAPITALISM.   This is our natural conclusion.  As long as we continue to model VALUE in the current form (Hedonic Output),  Equal unhappiness will be generated w/ happiness.   This is the default Modulation of the hedonic loop in every thinking being.

It's not possible to cut off the internet, or prevent its uptake/ use.  That's like cutting off the hand to fix a broken finger. Or gastic bypass, etc.   It won't work, as it's only symptom relief without addressing the CAUSE.

We have to change our Value system. Not Stop-Typing.

To Think that you can improve people's lives by taking them off the internet is in itself myopic. They'll just find ways to be unhappy elsewhere, the underlying broken value system is pervasive in every arena of life.



As someone born in 2000, yeah, this is actually pretty accurate. Essentially born waiting for the endgame of capitalism, where there's no social mobility and the rich just keep profiting off of suffering and misery. Turning off the internet wouldn't help with the issues I faced then or the ones I face now, it would honestly magnify them and make it harder for me to talk to most of my friends or to play the games that help me escape from this damn nightmare for a bit. Previous generations had some sort of goal. The best people my age and younger have is "Survive, maybe live ok and have not-as-horrible mental health for a bit." I'm watching the end of my planet in slow motion, and there's nothing I can do to stop it because the capitalist system has intensely rewarded the rich *******s profiting off of the destruction of our home, and when there's a even a hint of the government doing something about it they vomit money at the problem until it goes away and gives them tax cuts.

So, yeah, I'd rather type well than write well, because that's my main form of communication with my friends. If I didn't have that I'd be even more isolated. Getting rid of the internet wouldn't solve any problems at this point, just make them worse.

Offline Leopard223

  • Posts: 48
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #5462 on: Wed, 03 March 2021, 18:40:06 »
I have tried: Ergodox, X-Bows, Planck, and a bunch of more conventional mechanical keyboards over the course of ten years. I do realize that most of the following has already come up in this 100-page topic, but I think it's a good place to dump my unpopular kbd concerns.

1. Mechanical switches have nothing to do with ergonomics. They are bulky, they are high and they have too much travel. The only reason they are connected to ergonomics is that this is the only type of switch you can use for DIY.

2. Ortholinear is overrated.

3. Most of the claims about keyboards' ergonomics are false.

4. Thumb clusters are not comfortable. Yes, your thumb is the biggest, the strongest, and the most agile finger, but it is an opposite finger and it is not supposed for side movements.

5. The best keyboard you can buy is Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Desktop - split, wireless, low-profile, short spacebar, big modifiers, embedded wrist rest, tented and negative tilted out of the box. Costs around 80$-100$. Considered bad in the community because "it's not mechanical and ortholinear haha".

6. 60%, 40%, moving common symbols to layers is not worth it. Pressing several function buttons instead of stretching your hand a bit is less comfortable and ergonomic. "Do leave your home row" does not make sense - what's wrong with moving your hands a little bit?

7. Many people judge keyboards by typing speed, but how many of them HAVE to type that fast? Same for different layouts and measuring "finger travel distance" - are you traveling that much?

8. Wrist rests, comfortable hand position, ease of pressing hotkeys - is much more valuable but is omitted by most of the keyboard makers.

9. Switches. There are hundreds of them, all different, you should lube and change springs and still, a lot of people are not very happy with their choice and looking for something better. Does not that mean that all of them are bad by design? Have you ever heard about someone whining about his forks and buying more and more different forks to find "the right one"?
The WPM thing is such a weird thing, people already have enough recolors and 100k GB of keyboards and keycaps that they probably need a new way to measure contest...
It also doesn't show much, a WPM test is not a real representation of how you really type, also who cares? do all of them actually write that much?..

I dont agree about the switches though, you don't whine on your fork not good enough becuase you probably don't care..  all the recolors are boring but there are differences between switches, for example Kailh clickbar switches are different, they have different spring weight and clickbar thickness which greatly affects sound and feel between them.

If you do have to lube/film your switch in order to make it feel good then it's definitly bad by design, there's no exuce for a manufacture to make switches with loose housing or pingy leaf and charge more than $0.25 per switch IMO.

BTW 60% is for people who dont use the rest of the keyboard much, I presonally rearly use F keys/numpad and the keys above the arrow keys almost never used except Delete, sure a full size keyboard is always better and using something like 40% with the 'never leave home-row' is a weird concept to me, but full size takes the space of the mouse for me, so it's either having smaller keyboard or typing weird.