Author Topic: Religion  (Read 108219 times)

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Offline gr1m

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« Reply #450 on: Sun, 01 August 2010, 17:22:56 »

Offline Voixdelion

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« Reply #451 on: Mon, 02 August 2010, 04:03:52 »
See, now, this is the kind of thing that calls for purification via electro-shock re-education...  Or perhaps a revival of burning people at the stake, if we take a page from their own book.  Why is it that every one of these extremist psychos is so convinced that way to shake the devil out of everything is FIRE?  Isn't that supposed to be pretty much Satan's milieu? Where in the heck does it say to do this kind of stuff in the Bible?  I don't think this kind of behavior is the fault of religion, I think it's the fault of ego and idiocy - or perhaps genetic mental deficiency due to breeding with immediate family.

You know its really interesting how much energy people spend trying to control everything but the one thing they can affect : themselves.
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Offline quadibloc

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« Reply #452 on: Mon, 02 August 2010, 09:23:40 »
Quote from: Voixdelion;208353
See, now, this is the kind of thing that calls for purification via electro-shock re-education...  Or perhaps a revival of burning people at the stake, if we take a page from their own book.
I don't think so - I think it performs a helpful service in bringing out of the woodwork any Muslims who have a terrorist mentality, and who are incapable of living peacefully in a free society where their religion, like any other, is subject to vigorous and critical debate.

Or, to put it more clearly: I presume you would be among the first to object if some Christian fanatic murdered Andres Serrano.

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #453 on: Mon, 02 August 2010, 09:38:22 »
Quote from: Voixdelion;208353
Where in the heck does it say to do this kind of stuff in the Bible?


You can start here and work your way through...

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #454 on: Mon, 02 August 2010, 11:26:02 »
Quote from: quadibloc;208375
I don't think so - I think it performs a helpful service in bringing out of the woodwork any Muslims who have a terrorist mentality, and who are incapable of living peacefully in a free society where their religion, like any other, is subject to vigorous and critical debate.

Or, to put it more clearly: I presume you would be among the first to object if some Christian fanatic murdered Andres Serrano.


i'm with quadibloc.

its not nice, what they're doing. Its unecessarily provocative,  yes. I myself wouldnt do it.
but I recognize that its very different from murdering people. In any number of middle eastern and asian "islamist regime" nations today, they would not in fact stop with the book. They'd do it to the person, they do it daily to non-muslim people. WIth official sanction for violent religious segregation. They dont stop with the book.

So yea, its a strong statement for this group  to make - but its just a statement. The reaction will tell a lot about the difference. Christianity has, after all, grudgingly come into the modern world in the main; while islam in the main has not. Thats the difference that the world is grappling with.

yea, i wouldnt do what they're doing myself, but i do recognize the difference between burning a book and telling people they suck, vs actually killing them off.

Its like if you wanted to draw the prophet in order to make a point about free speech. I'm for that too. And the reaction tells a lot.

If these christians were rounding up the muslims in the neighborhood and at swordpoint making them convert or die - thats when they would be no different from the islamists. And thats when the federal govt would in fact intervene (unlike in islamist regimes where their governments would applaud or look the other way).

we leftists talk so much about how what the west has done has caused these extreme reactions in the east. Well, how about what the east has done causing extreme reactions in the west? This is a case in point for the latter, I think. If we can recognize the former, we should be able to recognize and understand the latter.
« Last Edit: Mon, 02 August 2010, 11:32:44 by wellington1869 »

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Offline gr1m

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« Reply #455 on: Mon, 02 August 2010, 14:43:58 »
I say that it's about time somebody burned Muslim stuff instead of them continuously burning Christian stuff. At the end of the day I don't believe in either faith but I think that if you don't see the dangers of Islam, you're misguided.

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #456 on: Mon, 02 August 2010, 15:22:24 »
Quote from: wellington1869;208386
i'm with quadibloc.

its not nice, what they're doing. Its unecessarily provocative,  yes. I myself wouldnt do it.
but I recognize that its very different from murdering people. In any number of middle eastern and asian "islamist regime" nations today, they would not in fact stop with the book. They'd do it to the person, they do it daily to non-muslim people. WIth official sanction for violent religious segregation. They dont stop with the book.

So yea, its a strong statement for this group  to make - but its just a statement. The reaction will tell a lot about the difference. Christianity has, after all, grudgingly come into the modern world in the main; while islam in the main has not. Thats the difference that the world is grappling with.

yea, i wouldnt do what they're doing myself, but i do recognize the difference between burning a book and telling people they suck, vs actually killing them off.

Its like if you wanted to draw the prophet in order to make a point about free speech. I'm for that too. And the reaction tells a lot.

If these christians were rounding up the muslims in the neighborhood and at swordpoint making them convert or die - thats when they would be no different from the islamists. And thats when the federal govt would in fact intervene (unlike in islamist regimes where their governments would applaud or look the other way).

we leftists talk so much about how what the west has done has caused these extreme reactions in the east. Well, how about what the east has done causing extreme reactions in the west? This is a case in point for the latter, I think. If we can recognize the former, we should be able to recognize and understand the latter.


I'd argue that Christianity was worse than Islam back in the day. Of course, what's happening now is the main concern, but to completely throw oneself at the idea that Islam is inherently evil, and far moreso than other religions inevitably results in people using it as a platform for racism. I think there is some perspective needed, without straying too far into relativism.

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #457 on: Mon, 02 August 2010, 15:40:31 »
keywords:
Quote from: ch_123;208437
back in the day


tho i think its debatable which was worse. You probably arent up to speed on the kinds of violence that historical islam depended on in order to spread as rapidly as it did into africa, europe, and asia.  If you did I think it'd be hard to pick a winner between it and chty. In some ways (for instance in suicide-murder cults which islam has always had, and which even during the crusades bewildered christians) its violences were/are more intense than chty's, at least, operate under a diff logic from chty's, are harder to engage in a dialogue with.  

chty after all was susceptible to the reformation... people who study islam today keep waiting for a similar internal movement in islam, with the kind of power and transformative reach that the chtian reformation had, and they're stil waiting.

Quote

but to completely throw oneself at the idea that Islam is inherently evil

i dont, tho these book burning christians do probably, and on that i'd disagree with them

Quote

, and far moreso than other religions inevitably results in people using it as a platform for racism.

but in fighting that potential racism we cant lose sight of the fight against islam's dark side, historical and contemporary. The mistake the contemp left keeps making, is choosing to fight some imagined flaw in others and ignore the very real flaw in contemporary mainstream islam. Its not an either/or. All of it must be fought without weakening any one part of that fight.
« Last Edit: Mon, 02 August 2010, 15:43:06 by wellington1869 »

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Offline quadibloc

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« Reply #458 on: Mon, 02 August 2010, 21:47:49 »
Some Muslims, for example, Ismailis and Ahmadiyya Muslims, believe very strongly in tolerance - and they are themselves the subjects of persecution in many Islamic nations, because they're not recognized as "real" Muslims.

How much of a link is there between what the ordinary Sunni or Shi'ite Muslim believes and terrorism? It would be nice to be able to say that there is none, because all religions teach peace and non-violence.

In practice, though, different religions do teach different things. Even though Jesus told his followers to "turn the other cheek", except for a few denominations like the Quakers, the Mennonites, or the Jehovah's Witnesses, Christians are by and large not pacifists. Pacifism - and vegetarianism - are part of Buddhism, and even if not all Buddhist nations have a perfect record of pacifism, the religion has had a significant impact in that direction.

It is a fact that Shari'a, sometimes known as "Islamic Law", puts non-Muslims in a position somewhat similar to that experienced by black Americans under segregation in some respects. Thus, members of a non-Muslim minority in a Muslim nation, such as Coptic Christians in Egypt, often do not have recourse if they are wronged by a member of the Muslim community.

Islam prohibits rape, but Islamic Law sets up a situation where someone perceived as a Muslim has a good chance of commiting that crime against a member of a minority community with impunity.

As far as I'm concerned, an entirely appropriate response to that is to partition the country where this is happening, so that the members of the minority community now have an international boundary behind which they can be safe, and the ability to defend themselves. That is what happened to Palestine originally. And the reaction of the Muslim nations around the new country of Israel was to descend on it to drive it into the sea.

The idea of unbelievers asserting their own human rights, taking over dominion of the land they live on, rather than living as submissive subjects of Muslim rulers, was viewed as an outrage against the natural order of things.

That's not necessarily some sort of Muslim disease, though. Somehow, I think the United States would have taken it badly if in, say, 1920, the black people of America decided they had had enough and decided to partition your country.

In being capable of bigotry and injustice, Muslims aren't all that much worse than anyone else. Their real problem is, particularly after 9/11, that because they believe firmly that an all-powerful God is on their side, they don't realize that unlike the United States - that was highly unlikely to have been invaded by Britain over its treatment of its black minority - they're not really in a position to get away with that kind of thing any more.

When a Muslim country mistreats a non-Muslim minority, to outsiders that looks like proof that the Muslims of that country, at least, don't really think of non-Muslims as real human beings. So if they're not terrorists, it's probably only because they're not brave enough - not because they think it's wrong.

The Western world's progress towards equal rights for religious and racial minorities was slow and painful. And now terrorism has put the Islamic world under such an intense spotlight that it may have less than a decade to move from the Middle Ages to the 20th Century to avoid disaster. It isn't fair.

But that doesn't stop it from being real.

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #459 on: Mon, 02 August 2010, 23:08:20 »
Quote from: quadibloc;208548
And now terrorism has put the Islamic world under such an intense spotlight that it may have less than a decade to move from the Middle Ages to the 20th Century to avoid disaster. It isn't fair.

But that doesn't stop it from being real.


I also doubt it'll happen.  I'm a pessimist in this regard I guess. What I keep seeing is the current dictatorial authority structures in government and mosque further entrenching themselves; using modern technologies (internet, nukes, etc) to further entrench themselves; to turn one of the greatest tools for democracy and equal access to information (the internet) into one of the greatest tools for surveilance and information control. Everything is moving in the wrong direction.

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Offline gr1m

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« Reply #460 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 16:54:06 »
So about the group of Muslims that want to build a mosque next to Ground Zero - are you ****ing kidding me? Stop them before they make a mockery out of 9/11. Want to argue political correctness? It's politically incorrect for a Muslim to try and build a mosque near Ground Zero anyway so it should not be politically incorrect from stopping it from taking place. Obama is a vag for condoning it.

Thoughts?

Offline microsoft windows

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« Reply #461 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 16:55:32 »
I think you're a loser.
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Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #462 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 16:58:22 »
Quote from: microsoft windows;213208
I think you're a loser.


I'll have to second that. I'm sure plenty of Muslims died in the tragedy as well as Jews, Christians, Hindus, Athiests, or whatever.  Muslims didn't bring down the WTC, extremist terrorists did.  There's a difference.

Nice troll, BTW.


Offline gr1m

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« Reply #463 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 17:01:39 »
Quote from: itlnstln;213210
I'll have to second that. I'm sure plenty of Muslims died in the tragedy as well as Jews, Christians, Hindus, Athiests, or whatever.  Muslims didn't bring down the WTC, extremist terrorists did.  There's a difference.

Nice troll, BTW.

So don't you think it would be more appropriate to not have a building of worship dedicated to only one of the many religions that died that day right next to Ground Zero?

I mean, I'm sure there would have been objections if people wanted to build a church next to Ground Zero.

Offline gr1m

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« Reply #464 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 17:09:25 »
Quote from: microsoft windows;213208
I think you're a loser.



Oh snap, somebody thinks that I'm as legendary as Ripster?

Offline Konrad

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« Reply #465 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 17:14:15 »
Quote from: wellington1869
2. arent we applying human standards whenever we talk about god in any fashion? What other standards could we ever possibly apply on the topic? Even to imagine god as cruel, arbitrary, inscrutable, is to apply words and concepts from the human universe of experience. So we can only talk about god in our terms, even when we imagine him to be cruel and arbitrary etc. There's no other way to imagine god but on our terms.
Voltaire and Nietzsche took it one step further.  They each asserted (in different ways) that if indeed Man is made in God's image, then the nature of God can be extrapolated by studying Man.
 
Incidentally, neither of them ever had anything positive to say about humanity.

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #466 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 17:26:02 »
Quote from: gr1m;206749
At the risk of saying "But I've said that too!", what I say sometimes is that when people say things like God is cruel, they are applying human (i.e. insignificant) morals and ethics to a cosmic power - apples and oranges. What's cruel to us says nothing about said cosmic power's intent.


If we assume that we were made by God, and we were meant to love and worship him, and that there is some sort of higher purpose for the bad things in the world, why would he create us in a way that would prevent us from understanding him fully? Surely we would be able to worship him better if we had half an idea what he was doing?

Offline gr1m

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« Reply #467 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 17:30:00 »
Quote from: ch_123;213221
If we assume that we were made by God, and we were meant to love and worship him, and that there is some sort of higher purpose for the bad things in the world, why would he create us in a way that would prevent us from understanding him fully? Surely we would be able to worship him better if we had half an idea what he was doing?

You cannot have the part I bolded and my claim at the same time. If our God is an uncaring cosmic power like I say he is, then he did not create us to love and worship him. He just made life for the hell of it, or for some even greater purpose, who knows, we certainly don't (which is my point), and moved on. Clock-maker God. Makes a world, winds it up and tosses it aside.

You're doing what wellington did. I'm trying to say "forget the God from the Bible" and you're refuting me with Abrahamic views of God.

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #468 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 17:33:34 »
Well, then you're arguing for some deistic viewpoint, which is fair enough.

It's just the God loves us/wants to test us thing pisses me off and I felt the need to point it out anyway =P

Offline Konrad

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« Reply #469 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 17:56:00 »
I tend to agree with grim on this.  But I also think that humans can be wonderfully arrogant.  I mean, when you really get down to it, God doesn't need to be the one and only omnipotent divine cosmic entity.  God only needs to be better than humans.
 
In religion, humans are central.  We are the reason that the entire universe exists.
 
In science, humans are incidental.  We're just a roll of the dice.  Maybe something or somebody else would be around if we weren't, but chances are that it wouldn't be even remotely human.

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #470 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 17:59:26 »
There's like 2/3 churches a block away from ground zero, heck these churches are freaky cuz they have graveyards in the backyard, i know cuz i used to work near there for 4 years(quit a month b4 9/11). does it affect me? no at the time i was agnostic and didn't care that churches were around, heck this is what opened my eyes to ash friday. As an agnostic i had no idea what christianity was cuz i didn't care (even though i was in the boy scouts and our meetings took place in a church and half our scout masters were pastors or father, whatever) but my first year working there i told my manager, "kenny you got something on your head", he took it as a joke, yea yea, and i'm like no really you got like this dot of dust, then he asks if i know what ash friday is and i'm like what? When your in public school for your whole life, you never see ppl get ash on their forhead cuz there's no church near school, so this was new to me. Now ppl run to the church during their lunch break for ash friday get that quick dot and go about their way.
whatever, doesn't affect me.
so mosque near ground zero? whatever doesn't affect me, ppl want to pray they go pray, heck one of the highest bought apps for android is the daily prayer app, that should affect me too! but it doesn't.
does 9/11 affect me? sure i can't even visit the site to this day (i travel to ny lots now since i have family/friends), the first few years as i crossed the manhattan bridge i was about to bawl at the emptiness that now resides, heck i even travelled back to ny a few days after 9/11 cuz a friend was having a wedding there, missed the ceromony and barely made it in time for the reception. (they had super high security and checking ppls id's in cars and stuff, even exits to city hall were just plain closed off, funny thing our car decided to stall on brooklyn bridge, and it was empty, was the freakyiest thing ever).
a mosque near ground zero still doesn't affect me. you can say that it dishonors the memories of the ppl that died, but the towers more than anything were multicultural, anything in NY is more diverse than any other place in the whole world, i will flat out make this statement, and the WTC was pretty much the embodyment of this, so everytype of everyone died.

plus lets not see the practical reason why ppl want a mosque there, ppl want to pray during work hours, is this wrong? again there are at least 2/3 churches around ground zero and ppl go there during work hours too. Get rid of all places of worship around ground zero if you want to be fair, cuz you could just say religious zeolots were responsible and all forms of religion should be barred away from ground zero.

Offline Konrad

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« Reply #471 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 18:04:22 »
You'd prefer they build a nice shiny Christian cathedral in that location instead of an objectionable and disrespectful thing like a mosque?

Offline microsoft windows

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« Reply #472 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 18:06:04 »
Well, were there extremist Christains blowing up the Twin Towers?
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Offline Konrad

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« Reply #473 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 18:07:21 »
Nah, they're too busy putting pipebombs in Irish schoolbusses.

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #474 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 18:25:34 »
Or family planning clinics in America.

Offline Konrad

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« Reply #475 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 18:32:57 »
(Hey, rip, why does my virus scan go crazy when I try to click on your Balls Of Steel link?)

Offline Konrad

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« Reply #476 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 18:41:17 »
Understand I wouldn't normally click your balls, but I just had to know what the hell that linky pointed at.  And then I found out you're infected?
 
My F-Secure and avast both warn against that one.  You sure it's clean?

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #477 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 18:45:37 »
Quote from: Konrad;213234
You'd prefer they build a nice shiny Christian cathedral in that location instead of an objectionable and disrespectful thing like a mosque?

a christian cathedral is just as objectionable and disrespectful. I've never step foot in the ones near there, but I did use them as comparision images for digital cameras, when digi cams were becoming mainstream and they were just using 3megapixel sensors, those churches look nice and i'm sure w/ the money they plan to use on that mosque (12million?) it's gonna look nice too.

Sad part is, that when this mosque gets made it'll be made b4 any ground zero building is ever put up, that is the real sad fact that 9 years after, it's still only 2 square footprints.

Offline Konrad

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« Reply #478 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 18:46:57 »
Well, I suppose it's only symmetry.  After all, there's American flags flying all over Baghdad.

Offline gr1m

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« Reply #479 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 18:48:21 »
Quote from: Lanx;213257
a christian cathedral is just as objectionable and disrespectful. I've never step foot in the ones near there, but I did use them as comparision images for digital cameras, when digi cams were becoming mainstream and they were just using 3megapixel sensors, those churches look nice and i'm sure w/ the money they plan to use on that mosque (12million?) it's gonna look nice too.

Sad part is, that when this mosque gets made it'll be made b4 any ground zero building is ever put up, that is the real sad fact that 9 years after, it's still only 2 square footprints.

It's not going to be a specially designed mosque or anything. It's part of a 13-story (I think) building that's going to include a gym and some form of people's association (maybe a youth organization) as well as a mosque.

I caught a bit more on the news. The Canadian CTV news channel covered it better than CNN, since CNN called it an outright mosque. Also, CTV mentioned that there was a strip-club a block away from the Muslim complex (which is 2 blocks away, making the strip-club 3 blocks away).

However, I still think it isn't right.

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #480 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 18:50:23 »
Quote from: gr1m;213260
It's not going to be a specially designed mosque or anything. It's part of a 13-story (I think) building that's going to include a gym and some form of association as well as a mosque.


well they've been praying there for a while, do they just want to like official sanction it as a mosque and get the tax break benefits?

Offline gr1m

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« Reply #481 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 18:53:30 »
Quote from: Lanx;213261
well they've been praying there for a while, do they just want to like official sanction it as a mosque and get the tax break benefits?

I'm guessing the focus of the building/project is the gym and the association. Since it's a Muslim association, the mosque is just a "part of the package".

Offline quadibloc

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« Reply #482 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 18:53:47 »
Quote from: itlnstln;213210
I'll have to second that. I'm sure plenty of Muslims died in the tragedy as well as Jews, Christians, Hindus, Athiests, or whatever.  Muslims didn't bring down the WTC, extremist terrorists did.  There's a difference.
Extremist terrorists who were also Muslims, and who claimed that Islam had something to do with their reasons, brought down the WTC.

Yes, Muslims as a group aren't to blame for what happened.

However, some aspects of al-Qaeda thinking are supported by a significant number of Muslims. Why is it that Coptic Christians face discrimination in Egypt, for example?

It is reasonable to fear that the rising up of a mosque where the WTC fell down will be perceived as a symbol of victory for the terrorists - not just by the people opposed to the mosque, but by others hostile to America.

Offline Konrad

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« Reply #483 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 18:57:00 »
@rip ... that's bizarre.  It's harmless, but I got two false alarms?  btw, nice balls.

Offline Konrad

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« Reply #484 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 19:03:34 »
The success of the terrorists in that circumstance wouldN'T be from any action on their part. They'd simply benefit from the divided states of america having a bit of an inner jerry springer episode.

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #485 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 21:07:55 »
Quote from: gr1m;213207
So about the group of Muslims that want to build a mosque next to Ground Zero - are you ****ing kidding me? Stop them before they make a mockery out of 9/11. Want to argue political correctness? It's politically incorrect for a Muslim to try and build a mosque near Ground Zero anyway so it should not be politically incorrect from stopping it from taking place. Obama is a vag for condoning it.

Thoughts?


grim, i get the feeling you mean the exact opposite of what you say here ;)

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Offline Voixdelion

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« Reply #486 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 21:08:10 »
Quote from: microsoft windows;213236
Well, were there extremist Christains blowing up the Twin Towers?

Actually I believe that is more likely than the propaganda story that was released,  though for money and power, not for the reasons relating to faith.
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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #487 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 21:10:02 »
Quote from: Konrad;213218
Voltaire and Nietzsche...
Incidentally, neither of them ever had anything positive to say about humanity.

but thats why we love them, isnt it ;)

incidentally i'd take voltaire over nietzche any day.

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Offline gr1m

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« Reply #488 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 21:15:52 »
Quote from: wellington1869;213304
grim, i get the feeling you mean the exact opposite of what you say here ;)

Do you mean that you think my post is a joke/troll? No, I actually do feel that a mosque should not be built near Ground Zero.

I don't know if anybody noticed but I didn't (or at least didn't intend to) show hatred towards Muslims or anything in the post. If Jews wanted a synagogue there, I'd have objected.  Hindus a temple and Christians a church as well.

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #489 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 21:16:31 »
Quote from: gr1m;213309
Do you mean that you think my post is a joke/troll? No, I actually do feel that a mosque should not be built near Ground Zero.


ok but you're doing a poor job of rebutting itln and konrad ;)

lets hear some arguments, man.

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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #490 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 21:20:38 »
Quote from: Konrad;213238
Nah, they're too busy putting pipebombs in Irish schoolbusses.


konrad/itln/lanx/ch, i appreciate what you're trying to do here, but i'm not sure this kind of equivalence is going to fly anywhere outside of  "the professional left" (in obama's wonderful phrase) or outside a carefully protected ivy campus.

Incidentally, what do you make of this? would be interested to hear your reactions to it.
what obama got wrong about the mosque
« Last Edit: Mon, 16 August 2010, 21:27:52 by wellington1869 »

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Offline gr1m

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Religion
« Reply #491 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 21:22:52 »
Uh... why? First of all, I don't particularly enjoy debating with people who insult me right off the bat.

Secondly, everything that I had to say was in my post. Muslim terrorists were behind 9/11 and allowing them to build a mosque next to Ground Zero because we're too scared to stand against the "political correctness" machine is making a mockery out of the victims.

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« Reply #492 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 21:25:38 »
Quote from: wellington1869;213313

Incidentally, what do you make of this? would be interested to hear your reactions to it.
what obama got wrong about the mosque



Well, Obama's an idiot. But Joe Biden's even dumber. And Michelle Obama-Ugh. Don't even bring her up.
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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #493 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 21:26:25 »
Quote from: gr1m;213315
Uh... why? First of all, I don't particularly enjoy debating with people who insult me right off the bat.

dude, entering a religion thread, stating a controversial point, and then asking for "thoughts" as you did, then you should expect a variety of responses, ya? Seemed like you wanted a debate.

Quote

Secondly, everything that I had to say was in my post. Muslim terrorists were behind 9/11 and allowing them to build a mosque next to Ground Zero because we're too scared to stand against the "political correctness" machine is making a mockery out of the victims.


great - konrad and itln and lanx responded quite a bit - but you didnt respond back or enlarge your argument. So makes it seem like you didnt really mean what you said in your post.

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« Reply #494 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 21:34:24 »
Quote from: wellington1869;213317
dude, entering a religion thread, stating a controversial point, and then asking for "thoughts" as you did, then you should expect a variety of responses, ya? Seemed like you wanted a debate.

Again, my irritation is going to be mistaken for some sort of sensitivity as it is obvious I burst into tears every time somebody calls me an idiot on the internet, right? I just find it irritating that I can't post without having some lame insult sent my way. You call me the most sensitive member of Geekhack but the fact is Geekhack is the only forum where I get attacked ad hominem on a daily basis. I'm telling you, it's the assburgers or something but hardly anybody knows what the word "debate" means here. From where I come from, a debate is a non-insulting academic discussion. He who insults first loses first.

I wanted a debate, not to be childishly called a loser. Read Konrad's post, he seems to have a grasp on maturity.

Quote from: wellington1869;213317
great - konrad and itln and lanx responded quite a bit - but you didnt respond back or enlarge your argument. So makes it seem like you didnt really mean what you said in your post.

I'm not here to fight tooth and nail to force my beliefs onto others, so meh. I was posting up a tidbit of information to see what the range of reactions would be to this Ground Zero mosque.

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #495 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 21:36:58 »
Quote from: gr1m;213321
Again, my irritation is going to be mistaken for some sort of sensitivity as it is obvious I burst into tears every time somebody calls me an idiot on the internet, right? I just find it irritating that I can't post without having some lame insult sent my way. You call me the most sensitive member of Geekhack but the fact is Geekhack is the only forum where I get attacked ad hominem on a daily basis. I'm telling you, it's the assburgers or something but hardly anybody knows what the word "debate" means here. From where I come from, a debate is a non-insulting academic discussion. He who insults first loses first.

I wanted a debate, not to be childishly called a loser. Read Konrad's post, he seems to have a grasp on maturity.


dude, one person (mw, which surpises no one by now, ya?) called you that; while like 5 others engaged your point*. yet that was enough to drive you from the room?  And you wonder why i call you the most sensitive member of gh?**

*ripster of course, merely posted a funny pic and that was that ;)
**(itln, this is the second time i'm setting this up for you).

« Last Edit: Mon, 16 August 2010, 21:40:57 by wellington1869 »

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Offline gr1m

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« Reply #496 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 21:43:18 »
Quote from: wellington1869;213322
dude, one person (mw, which surpises no one by now, ya?) called you that; while like 5 others engaged your point*. yet that was enough to drive you from the room?  And you wonder why i call you the most sensitive member of gh?**

*ripster of course, merely posted a funny pic and that was that ;)
**(itln, this is the second time i'm setting this up for you).

Alright, let's do it your way:

ItlnStln's post? I responded to it.
http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=213213&postcount=515

Lanx? I responded to him.
http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=213260&postcount=533
http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=213263&postcount=536

Konrad? He didn't say much that was noteworthy about the mosque.

Quadibloc agreed with my point of view and his post reflected what I had intended in my post so I figured at that point, repeating what he said would be redundant:
http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=213264&postcount=537

And then of course, you came along with your typical "hey its grimmy the idiot" routine and I responded to you:
http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=213315&postcount=547
And that response was basically my original post repeated and clarified.

So, tell me again how I left the room?

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #497 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 21:48:33 »
dude, you didnt respond to what they said, you only reiterated what you originally said. But whatever.

Never called you an idiot -- there you go reading insults everywhere (being sensitive?) again.

anyway, was making a minor observation whcih isnt worth pursuing; i'm more interested in what people think of sam harris' article i linked to above, as it pertains directly to the discussion at hand.

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« Reply #498 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 21:52:16 »
Quote from: wellington1869;213322
dude, one person (mw, which surpises no one by now, ya?) called you that


Well, the guy was a jerk to me (Posted many rude things directed towards me within the past two weeks), so I called him a jerk. Kind of blunt, but I don't see much really wrong with it.
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« Reply #499 on: Mon, 16 August 2010, 21:56:37 »
Quote from: microsoft windows;213331
Well, the guy was a jerk to me (Posted many rude things directed towards me within the past two weeks), so I called him a jerk. Kind of blunt, but I don't see much really wrong with it.


well, he's a bit sensitive.

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3