Which defunct keyboard switch do you want to see resurrected?

[Findecanor]

One thing that irks me is that many young gamers today somehow got the idea that Cherry would have "invented mechanical keyboards"... by supposedly introducing the Cherry MX only a couple of years ago.
Of course I have to tell them straight about it, and that got me wondering ...

Back in the mid-80's and early '90s almost all keyboards had mechanical switches (or at least some kind of hybrid or other).
There wasn't just Model M, Cherry MX and Alps but a plethora of different switch types. However, unlike most types, these three hung around to be produced into our days ... and those three are not necessarily the "best" switches in existence (by very subjective metrics...).
So, inspired by a "Which defunct Star Wars toy do you wish resurrected" thread on another forum, I ask:

Which keyboard switch that is no longer in production do you wish to see back in production and in new keyboards?

Please motivate your answer!

[Oobly]

Model F buckling springs.

Capacitive sensing, so very durable and NKRO matrix by design. The top plate with individual inserts and foam arrangement makes for a better typing feel than Model M membrane on steel plate and plastic top plate.

It just feels right somehow, despite the strong-ish springs.

[Sniping]

I want to see a Hall Effect keyboard. Aside from its ridiculous lifespan, I think they're great linear switches.

[falkentyne]

IBM Selectric!
But yeah I actually used selectric II's when I was in 9th grade, when in typing class.
But definitely model F's.  If I recall, the Model F's were actually made to emulate the selectric feel.
Nothing today or in the last 30 years even comes CLOSE to how the Selectric II felt.

[Photekq]

A beamspring TKL without the ridiculous height of old beamsprings boards would probably be the best keyboard in the world.

[hwood34]

A beamspring TKL without the ridiculous height of old beamsprings boards would probably be the best keyboard in the world.

I want to see a Hall Effect keyboard. Aside from its ridiculous lifespan, I think they're great linear switches.

double +1

[berserkfan]

Beam spring.

That said I hope that new optical switches will become more common and cheaper.

[Findecanor]

Hehe.. I should have typed in the first post: "IBM spring is already given, so no need to post".

[Dihedral]

If Matias did the Complicated blue alps, I would buy it in a heartbeat, so long as the quality and smoothness was up to the standard of the original. everything I've read about the complicated blues points me towards the conclusion that they are the ultimate switch for me. Sigh.

[Hypersphere]

1. IBM capacitive buckling spring (Model F).

2. Various Alps and Alps clones (in addition to Matias switches, which we already have).

[E TwentyNine]

Hehe.. I should have typed in the first post: "IBM spring is already given, so no need to post".

Well, while some may be mentioning a capacitive buckling spring, beam spring is the one I'd really like to see come back in an SSK format.

And of course with those great keycaps.

[Data]

I've always wanted to try Hall Effect.

[FrostyToast]

Hall effect is something that I wish to try. That, and beamspring.
They are pretty much the only family of switches I haven't tried. Although there is still a plethora of specific switches I do need to see.

[yiajiipamu]

I really want to try one of those Keytronics with the Butterfly switches. I saw an old ad for one and haven't found anything else about them but they just seem so interesting.

[CPTBadAss]

Marquardt Butterfly, Beamspring, Hall Effect, Selectric, that weird and amazing acoustic switch  Haata showed off.

[Jotokun]

Capacitive BS is truly the right answer, but from how they're described here I'd love to try out linear Green ALPS. Every post I've seen on them describes them as the ultimate linear switch, and while I normally prefer clicky, there are tons of modern clicky options. At the moment though, linear is only offered through Cherry MX or clones of Cherry MX.

[IvanIvanovich]

I too would like to try hall effect... but some of the kind where the keyboard doesn't need to be ****ing 10cm thick. I can't stand high keyboards.
Or I can just be boring, and ask for the MX linear clears Cherry made back in 1985.

[jacobolus]

Marquardt Butterfly

++

I got a keyboard with these switches and want to try to build them into an ergonomic keyboard, but it would be amazing to see someone try to make a new switch on a similar design.

One of the most delightfully clicky switches ever made, and relatively simple to manufacture. The ones that exist now are slightly stiffer than my preference, so I’d hope a resurrected version was just a bit softer. Also, could use a better keycap mount, and a bit less play/movement of  the top housing.

[jacobolus]

from how they're described here I'd love to try out linear Green ALPS.

Definitely not the *ultimate* linear switch. The thing that’s great about them is that they have a very nice spring weight, but they still aren’t as robust to off-axis presses or low-wobble as various switches from the 60s–70s, and any 'ultimate' switch will probably use a non-electrical-contact-based switching mechanism.

At the moment though, linear is only offered through Cherry MX or clones of Cherry MX.

Hopefully someone can get some linear Matias switches and offer up a review soon.

[Firebolt1914]

I really want marqardt butterfly switches. Back when I was a noob, I had a chance to buy a typewriter with them, but I didn't because of the shipping. I probably should've bought it regardless.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I'm still curious about SMK second generation switches. The off-angle binding on my SMK-made Tulip keyboard concerns me, but no-one else ever reports trouble with SMK tactile switches, and they're far more tactile than Alps SKCM series. By "switch", I assume I can nominate a whole series, but I'm still uncertain about these switches. I sent Findecanor my KB-5182 with Monterey switches over two years ago before I'd even tested typing on it (I never got past prodding keys to verify that the keyboard functioned, with it connected to an old laptop with a PS/2 port) as otherwise that would have been a second data point for this family.

Blue Alps of course needs to come back, as it was glorious. One has to wonder how hard it would be—using matt3o's or HaaTa's force gauges—to isolate the key determinants of its feel and recreate it without the switchplate. Matias switches feel awfully rough and wobbly compared to the butter smooth feel of blue Alps, although they share the same light feel. Blue Alps has yet to yield up its secrets.

[Hypersphere]

I have a Honeywell Hall-Effect keyboard, although I have not yet refurbished/converted it so that I can test it under actual typing conditions attached to a modern computer. However, based on simply trying keypresses on the keyboard, it is a rather disappointing linear switch, although I am told that with proper cleaning and lubrication it can feel quite smooth.

Regarding Matias switches, I have a V60 with Matias Click switches and a V60 with Matias Quiet Click switches. I have seen posts indicating that Matias switches wobble, but my Matias switch keyboards do not seem to have any undue wobble. I wonder if this is a problem seen on Matias keyboards and somehow not present on non-Matias keyboards that have Matias switches?

[jacobolus]

I have seen posts indicating that Matias switches wobble, but my Matias switch keyboards do not seem to have any undue wobble. I wonder if this is a problem seen on Matias keyboards and somehow not present on non-Matias keyboards that have Matias switches?

It’s all relative. Matias switches are noticeably more wobbly than complicated Alps switches. For most people this isn’t a problem.

[Findecanor]

I really want to try one of those Keytronics with the Butterfly switches. I saw an old ad for one and haven't found anything else about them but they just seem so interesting.

I assume that you are referring to the Key Tronic ad in Byte magazine, where they said something like "So far we have made tactile switches. Now we also have switches with linear feel".
I think that the switch they are referring to is just their foam and foil switch with coiled spring. Linear with a mushy landing.

[Hypersphere]

I have seen posts indicating that Matias switches wobble, but my Matias switch keyboards do not seem to have any undue wobble. I wonder if this is a problem seen on Matias keyboards and somehow not present on non-Matias keyboards that have Matias switches?

It’s all relative. Matias switches are noticeably more wobbly than complicated Alps switches. For most people this isn’t a problem.

I'd like to check this out so that I can see what people are talking about regarding wobble. How would I quantify this? I suppose for a capless stem or for a given keycap I could measure the amount of lateral motion (left-right and/or up-down) that can be induced by applying lateral force to the stem or keycap.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I probably don't mean the same wobble that others mean. I don't have a precise measurement of what I feel, other than that Matias switches don't feel clean and smooth. When I got my Quiet Pro, the switches felt like they were juddering as you pressed them.

I don't know what the cause is. They share the one-armed bandit contact design as simplified Alps but they feel distinctly worse, although simplified Alps also has a double-bump curve that messes up the tactility, a lot like black Alps switches in the AT101W/102W. It's nothing to do with simplification; I have a clone keyboard next to me (KPT KPT-84) and the switches in that (USw LABI01) are smooth, and once you pass the tactile point, the rest of the force curve is linear without any grinding or extraneous bumps. The simplified Alps design (which might be a copy of one of the clones, as the one-armed bandit design appears to long-predate simplified Alps) seems to be a really poor idea, and the Matias switch is a copy of an already bad design (one which I think was the Himake cheap range, rated for 5 M instead of 10 M cycles, but without research assistance, I won't be able to gather the data I need on those switches).

Blue Alps is just exceptionally smooth. It might be that both Cherry and Alps changed their plastics around the same time, since there's a widely-held belief that old Cherry MX switches were also smoother.

There's enough spare switches out that someone with access to the right kind of laboratory could get all the materials analysed. The same could also be applied to all the other ultra-smooth switches to see if they all share the same plastics.

[Hypersphere]

@Daniel Beardsmore: Thanks for the descriptions and comparisons of wobble among various Alps-type switches. I have only typed very briefly on a colleague's Matias Mini Tactile Pro, but I have now typed extensively on my Matias Quiet Click and Matias Click V60 keyboards, and none of these seem wobbly to me. I certainly don't detect any juddering throughout the keypress. The tactility is quite pronounced, with a nice release after the tactile bump and actuation, so that increasing force is not needed to bottom out, unlike the situation with Cherry switches -- Cherry clears in particular. My V60 boards have dye-sub PBT alpha keycaps harvested from an IBM 5140. I wonder to what extent the keycaps could alter the feel of the switches?

I have some other Alps-type keyboards, including a SIIG 84 with Monterey blues, an Ortek 84 and a SIIG Suntouch Jr. Of these three, I find the Suntouch Jr to be the most pleasant to type on. I am not sure of the exact type of switches in the Ortek or Suntouch Jr. I need to check this out.

[Puddsy]

More green XM ALPS please

I'd love to see them in a quality board, and not my DK1087.

[jacobolus]

I have now typed extensively on my Matias Quiet Click and Matias Click V60 keyboards, and none of these seem wobbly to me.

Again, it’s all relative and most people don’t have any problem with the slight wobble.

I certainly don't detect any juddering throughout the keypress. [...] I wonder to what extent the keycaps could alter the feel of the switches?

Your batch of switches might have a different feel from Daniel’s, or you might just have different preferences. The keycaps don’t have any bearing on this particular aspect of switch feel.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I think "crunchy" is a maybe a better description.

I shall be the first to nominate space invader switches, just because they're funny :-)

[Touch_It]

Beam spring/capacitive. 

The reasoning behind this is the fact that Capacitive BS is the fact that they are by far the best switch I've tried ever.  Both the feel and the sound are top notch.  From what I've felt so far the feeling is almost magical and the sound is like angels singing.  It will truly be a sad world when the last of the existing keyboards dies.

Beamspring because of the above reasons (I havn't tried one yet) but from everything I've seen/heard this is probably the only switch in existence that could trump BS.  We need more to be made (in standard and terminal layouts) so that people will never have to live in a world without IBM switches!

[jacobolus]

Beamspring because of the above reasons (I havn't tried one yet) but from everything I've seen/heard this is probably the only switch in existence that could trump BS.

YMMV. I think beamspring switches are okay, but not my favorite. I don’t like them as much as Model F switches.

Among similar switch designs, I like both Alps and Marquardt switches better than IBM beam spring switches (but for different reasons; all three of these switches are substantially different, though they have some similarities).

Beam spring keyboards do have pretty much the best keycaps ever though.