Author Topic: Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)  (Read 26758 times)

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Offline MessyCaps

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Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)
« on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 06:52:55 »
First Batch
I had to fit making these in between 9 hour shifts, I am exhausted, frustrated, stressed, annoyed but slightly relieved I made something that resembles a key cap. So please go easy on me guys constructive criticism and tips are greatly appreciated!
Some things I should have done different.
- Spend more time creating the silicone mold, as in make sure there are no gaps when making the second half where it can slip down the sides
- Make sure the silicone gets into the stem of the cap when pouring as for some reason my first attempt at a second half of the mold ended up with a terrible stem that was not going to work
- Start with a less detailed design as you can see the details did not come out so well also the bubbles ruined a lot of them
- Pour the resin into the stem side before pressing together to make sure the stem will properly form
- Buy sandpaper, lol (and I might have to invest in a vacuum)
More

Rough Process
More
Sculpting the caps (girlfriends job xD)


Creating a base for my first half of my mold

Pouring the silicone mixture over the base into cardboard sides


Pouring second half of mold onto first half

Ready for resin :)


Progression
Trying different pigments

First attempt at a double shot
« Last Edit: Sat, 24 January 2015, 21:53:53 by MessyCaps »

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: My Pretty Terrible Key Caps (Potato quality, will update as I go alone)
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 06:57:56 »
I had the chance to make some keycaps with Binge over the weekend. He taught me a lot and much of it was how to manage bubbles. I think your level of detail is fine but you definitely need to find a way to degas those bubbles. Also it looks like your underside stems were destroyed on two so perhaps you'll need to figure out a way to create some sacrificial material on the bottom so that you're not tearing the stems out.

Hopefully others can chime in but I think early in Binge's thread, there are a lot of good tips and tricks that will help you out.
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Offline MessyCaps

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Re: My Pretty Terrible Key Caps (Potato quality, will update as I go alone)
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 07:01:55 »
I had the chance to make some keycaps with Binge over the weekend. He taught me a lot and much of it was how to manage bubbles. I think your level of detail is fine but you definitely need to find a way to degas those bubbles. Also it looks like your underside stems were destroyed on two so perhaps you'll need to figure out a way to create some sacrificial material on the bottom so that you're not tearing the stems out.

Hopefully others can chime in but I think early in Binge's thread, there are a lot of good tips and tricks that will help you out.

Yeah with the stems they didn't fill properly in the mold. After I tried pouring a little resin into the stem half and then pressing the halves of the molds together it seems to have fixed that problem. Ill read through binges thread again see if I can improve on the bubbles, thank you very much. Also I am jealous I would pay big moneys to work with binge and learn his wisdom.
« Last Edit: Wed, 21 January 2015, 07:06:37 by MessyCaps »

Offline Bromono

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Re: My Pretty Terrible Key Caps (Potato quality, will update as I go along)
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 07:16:19 »
Gotta start somewhere! I tried a little making my self but I am better at drawing then sculpting =(.

I have talked to kinder a couple times about the process. If you are actually serious about making caps, a vacuum seal is a absolute must. It gets rid of those bubbles and the cap is not as brittle. Its an expensive hobby to get into.


Offline KatzenKinder

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Re: My Pretty Terrible Key Caps (Potato quality, will update as I go alone)
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 22 January 2015, 03:01:01 »
I had the chance to make some keycaps with Binge over the weekend. He taught me a lot and much of it was how to manage bubbles. I think your level of detail is fine but you definitely need to find a way to degas those bubbles. Also it looks like your underside stems were destroyed on two so perhaps you'll need to figure out a way to create some sacrificial material on the bottom so that you're not tearing the stems out.

Hopefully others can chime in but I think early in Binge's thread, there are a lot of good tips and tricks that will help you out.

Yeah with the stems they didn't fill properly in the mold. After I tried pouring a little resin into the stem half and then pressing the halves of the molds together it seems to have fixed that problem. Ill read through binges thread again see if I can improve on the bubbles, thank you very much. Also I am jealous I would pay big moneys to work with binge and learn his wisdom.

With opaque caps, I just go ahead and fill the stem-side of the mold first with degassed resin; and let that cure for like an hour before doing the rest. Ensures a perfect stem nearly every time; you can just poke out bubbles with whatever carving tool you have that's suitable.

Offline MessyCaps

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Re: My Pretty Terrible Key Caps (Potato quality, will update as I go alone)
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 24 January 2015, 21:48:14 »
I had the chance to make some keycaps with Binge over the weekend. He taught me a lot and much of it was how to manage bubbles. I think your level of detail is fine but you definitely need to find a way to degas those bubbles. Also it looks like your underside stems were destroyed on two so perhaps you'll need to figure out a way to create some sacrificial material on the bottom so that you're not tearing the stems out.

Hopefully others can chime in but I think early in Binge's thread, there are a lot of good tips and tricks that will help you out.

Yeah with the stems they didn't fill properly in the mold. After I tried pouring a little resin into the stem half and then pressing the halves of the molds together it seems to have fixed that problem. Ill read through binges thread again see if I can improve on the bubbles, thank you very much. Also I am jealous I would pay big moneys to work with binge and learn his wisdom.

With opaque caps, I just go ahead and fill the stem-side of the mold first with degassed resin; and let that cure for like an hour before doing the rest. Ensures a perfect stem nearly every time; you can just poke out bubbles with whatever carving tool you have that's suitable.
This helps a ton, only get bubbles on the bottom of the cap on the sides now which really doesn't matter much.

Offline Frogbot

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Re: Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 30 January 2015, 00:32:11 »
Looks like a pretty good start!

I'm probably at a similar level to you Messy Caps, I had pretty good luck without pre-resining the stem. I think it all has to do with the sprue.. I've worked with adding one directly to the stem (plus others) and injecting from the side. With this process I think the most important thing is to have the sprue facing up so the air bubbles can flow out.

I'm focusing on sculpting for the moment, what material have you been using?




 

Offline MessyCaps

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Re: Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 03 February 2015, 09:36:31 »



This is why Reddit is looked down on. People with no experience who are saying my first tries are **** with no constructive criticism. It's no wonder you guys don't want them over here, they should stay over there with there inexperience and ignorance.

Offline bueller

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Re: Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 03 February 2015, 09:43:37 »
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This is why Reddit is looked down on. People with no experience who are saying my first tries are **** with no constructive criticism. It's no wonder you guys don't want them over here, they should stay over there with there inexperience and ignorance.

Yep, so many *******s.
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

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Offline sethk_

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Re: Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 03 February 2015, 10:12:01 »

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This is why Reddit is looked down on. People with no experience who are saying my first tries are **** with no constructive criticism. It's no wonder you guys don't want them over here, they should stay over there with there inexperience and ignorance.
I haven't looked, but am I the only one on that post with positive feedback?

Offline MessyCaps

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Re: Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 03 February 2015, 10:50:48 »

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This is why Reddit is looked down on. People with no experience who are saying my first tries are **** with no constructive criticism. It's no wonder you guys don't want them over here, they should stay over there with there inexperience and ignorance.
I haven't looked, but am I the only one on that post with positive feedback?

No its kinda 50/50. Don't get my wrong people can call my work **** as much as they want as long as they have some constructive criticism to help my improve. People just shouting out insults with no insight at all in the topic of making key caps. I guess its something I should learn to live with if I continue.

Offline Dihedral

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Re: Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 03 February 2015, 11:56:37 »
You're that guy on reddit who got all the crap. No matter. That's why you keep proper content to GH.

Offline MessyCaps

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Re: Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 06 February 2015, 17:43:57 »


Can anyone help me out into stopping this? I assume its air getting trapped into the stem or something but I have tried pouring the silicone multiple times, even trying to poke out the air but I just cant get it to work...

Offline MGH

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Re: Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 06 February 2015, 17:52:16 »
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Can anyone help me out into stopping this? I assume its air getting trapped into the stem or something but I have tried pouring the silicone multiple times, even trying to poke out the air but I just cant get it to work...
You gotta poke all the air out....but this problem with casting mx caps is why I prefer BS and Topre more than MX.

Offline BlueNalgene

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Re: Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 06 February 2015, 18:01:02 »
Show Image


Can anyone help me out into stopping this? I assume its air getting trapped into the stem or something but I have tried pouring the silicone multiple times, even trying to poke out the air but I just cant get it to work...

I have this problem too, and I think it is related to degassing procedures and might be fixed by pressurization or a silicone mix that wets the surface of the master cap better.  If you find a solution, I would look forward to hearing it.

That said, does it matter? I have had caps come out with good stems from this time of mold.  The part that connects to the switch is mostly what is inside the silicone. 

Offline MessyCaps

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Re: Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 06 February 2015, 18:19:42 »
Show Image


Can anyone help me out into stopping this? I assume its air getting trapped into the stem or something but I have tried pouring the silicone multiple times, even trying to poke out the air but I just cant get it to work...

I have this problem too, and I think it is related to degassing procedures and might be fixed by pressurization or a silicone mix that wets the surface of the master cap better.  If you find a solution, I would look forward to hearing it.

That said, does it matter? I have had caps come out with good stems from this time of mold.  The part that connects to the switch is mostly what is inside the silicone.

I assumed if I where to use these moulds the stem would fill out too much with resin and It would never fit on the stem of a mx switch?

Offline MGH

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Re: Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 06 February 2015, 21:04:36 »
Show Image


Can anyone help me out into stopping this? I assume its air getting trapped into the stem or something but I have tried pouring the silicone multiple times, even trying to poke out the air but I just cant get it to work...

I have this problem too, and I think it is related to degassing procedures and might be fixed by pressurization or a silicone mix that wets the surface of the master cap better.  If you find a solution, I would look forward to hearing it.

That said, does it matter? I have had caps come out with good stems from this time of mold.  The part that connects to the switch is mostly what is inside the silicone.

I assumed if I where to use these moulds the stem would fill out too much with resin and It would never fit on the stem of a mx switch?
Sometimes it works, but most of the time the stem is ****ed up. You gotta redo that half.

Offline MessyCaps

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Re: Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 07 February 2015, 05:38:27 »
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Can anyone help me out into stopping this? I assume its air getting trapped into the stem or something but I have tried pouring the silicone multiple times, even trying to poke out the air but I just cant get it to work...


Not good. Going to go out and buy a different silicone solution. The storm trooper mould didn't properly form so the eyes don't even come out proper.

Offline dimmu

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Re: Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 07 February 2015, 06:52:37 »
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This is why Reddit is looked down on. People with no experience who are saying my first tries are **** with no constructive criticism. It's no wonder you guys don't want them over here, they should stay over there with there inexperience and ignorance.


if anything, those comments were already downvoted and rightfully so. please keep us updated with your progress tho. i can't really contribute much since i have no experience in keycap making whatsoever but i love it when crafters post images of early imperfect works. it gives us an idea of how much time and effort were spent on developing your finished product. 

Offline Mandolin

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Re: Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 07 February 2015, 20:11:51 »
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Can anyone help me out into stopping this? I assume its air getting trapped into the stem or something but I have tried pouring the silicone multiple times, even trying to poke out the air but I just cant get it to work...
- Use a needle to move silicone around in complicated places and get rid of the bubbles. Insert it in the stem.
Expect bubbles to form in profound cavities and <90 corners.

- Then vibrate the mold, either with a vibrator table, or holding it with one hand and tapping it from the bottom.

- Don't pour it in one go. Brush the silicone first onto every surface, then pour.

- Lower the viscosity of the silicone adding up a 10% maximum per weight silicone emulsion (a polydimethylsiloxane emulsion works with both addition cure or tin cure silicones), so it has a lower surface tension, increased wetability and a lower surface contact angle. After cured, it will sweat off the excess.

- *Buy a Polyethylene glycol, PEG based surfactant in the pharmacy (ask for a powdered PEG laxative to your pharmacist), mix it with a silicone emulsion and incorporate it to the already mixed silicone. Try to use a <5% mix per weight and check if it's enough. Do a small test bofore making the mold pour to check for inhibition and compare how it spreads. It's the same thing used as a "plasticizer" for the dental silicone putties and some other silicone impression systems.
« Last Edit: Sat, 07 February 2015, 23:19:26 by Mandolin »
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Offline MessyCaps

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Re: Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 08 February 2015, 01:50:12 »
Show Image


Can anyone help me out into stopping this? I assume its air getting trapped into the stem or something but I have tried pouring the silicone multiple times, even trying to poke out the air but I just cant get it to work...
- Use a needle to move silicone around in complicated places and get rid of the bubbles. Insert it in the stem.
Expect bubbles to form in profound cavities and <90 corners.

- Then vibrate the mold, either with a vibrator table, or holding it with one hand and tapping it from the bottom.

- Don't pour it in one go. Brush the silicone first onto every surface, then pour.

- Lower the viscosity of the silicone adding up a 10% maximum per weight silicone emulsion (a polydimethylsiloxane emulsion works with both addition cure or tin cure silicones), so it has a lower surface tension, increased wetability and a lower surface contact angle. After cured, it will sweat off the excess.

- *Buy a Polyethylene glycol, PEG based surfactant in the pharmacy (ask for a powdered PEG laxative to your pharmacist), mix it with a silicone emulsion and incorporate it to the already mixed silicone. Try to use a <5% mix per weight and check if it's enough. Do a small test bofore making the mold pour to check for inhibition and compare how it spreads. It's the same thing used as a "plasticizer" for the dental silicone putties and some other silicone impression systems.

This is perfect!!!
Thank you so much these are great techniques, I guess with more care doing these things should resolve the problem. Thank you so much mandolin, also I love your work with your keys <3

Offline Mandolin

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Re: Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 08 February 2015, 03:00:13 »
I don't doubt it  ;)
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Offline Dodgy

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Re: Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 10 February 2015, 17:26:02 »
Looking good so far, keep up the nice work- don't let those reddit guys get you down, the best part of the craft is refining the process and learning from your mistakes and experiments. It would be boring if your first attempts came out perfect.
Feel free to reach out if you have any questions, I'll do my best to give you good answers!
Hi, what's your favorite color?
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Offline dustinhxc

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Re: Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 08 March 2015, 00:53:16 »
Yeah reddit are a bunch of jerks, when I posted kbks back in the day they all said it was ****. Now they all want them. Bunch of *******s.  Just keep at it and you'll do great! :)

Offline LXXXIX

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Re: Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 12 March 2015, 20:15:52 »
Yeah reddit are a bunch of jerks, when I posted kbks back in the day they all said it was ****. Now they all want them. Bunch of *******s.  Just keep at it and you'll do great! :)

Not all of us were meanies I'm sorry dustin.  :'(

I literally only like punks' and martin's caps and maybe a bro cap.

As for OP continue to try and progress. I'm sure it will continue to compound and you will really have the special caps you want to make. Good luck!

I look forward to it!


Offline KaboomTheory

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Re: Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 12 March 2015, 23:06:16 »
Yeah reddit are a bunch of jerks, when I posted kbks back in the day they all said it was ****. Now they all want them. Bunch of *******s.  Just keep at it and you'll do great! :)

I think people are entitled to their opinions, because of course this is an art form. At first I didn't like KBK's purely from a design aspect, but eventually it grew on me (especially his colorways that really make things pop.) On here, people understand that these posts are logs of someones progress, but when you post on Reddit it's usually to show something off. You'll get better! I believe!

There are *******s everywhere, no point in centralizing your hate because of a couple of people.

Offline domoaligato

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Re: Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 19 March 2015, 23:04:47 »
Show Image


Can anyone help me out into stopping this? I assume its air getting trapped into the stem or something but I have tried pouring the silicone multiple times, even trying to poke out the air but I just cant get it to work...

what product is this?

edit: to make this faster.. I would suggest you try Smooth-on OOMOO 25 for the  mold and Smooth-on 320/321/322. It is also very important to have a release agent.

Always save your Masters! you can always recreate a silicon mold. you can not recreate your masters. do not sell you masters because you have a mold. your mold will break...
« Last Edit: Thu, 19 March 2015, 23:15:49 by domoaligato »

Offline MessyCaps

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Re: Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 07 April 2015, 06:36:50 »
Show Image


Can anyone help me out into stopping this? I assume its air getting trapped into the stem or something but I have tried pouring the silicone multiple times, even trying to poke out the air but I just cant get it to work...

what product is this?

edit: to make this faster.. I would suggest you try Smooth-on OOMOO 25 for the  mold and Smooth-on 320/321/322. It is also very important to have a release agent.

Always save your Masters! you can always recreate a silicon mold. you can not recreate your masters. do not sell you masters because you have a mold. your mold will break...

Lol, sorry I have been inactive for a while, thanks I will look into it.

Offline bcredbottle

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Re: Messy Caps Experiments (Updates)
« Reply #28 on: Sat, 23 May 2015, 21:04:42 »
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This is why Reddit is looked down on. People with no experience who are saying my first tries are **** with no constructive criticism. It's no wonder you guys don't want them over here, they should stay over there with there inexperience and ignorance.

Those posts have 0 points or less. Yes, it's the internet. There are ****posting haters. But at least those posts are made invisible when they reach 0 or less karma.

I, on the other hand, consistently ****post all over Geekhack with nary a consequence.
« Last Edit: Sun, 24 May 2015, 09:05:09 by bcredbottle »