Leopold FC660C Vs Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional 2

[skuko]

i got both of my FC660Cs from widebasket (ebay seller) - second one is in the mail, widebasket is quick and very professional.

question for spicebar and anyone else who has used the FC660C for a longer period of time....

have you used the mini USB port extensively (like connecting/disconnecting the cable every day), if so, do you think it will last? on my board i try to "use" the port as few times as possible, that's why i'm getting a second one for having it at work, so i don't have to plug in the cable every day, because i fear that the port itself will wear out. it's relatively wobbly as it is right now, and that's pretty much a new board (well a few months old, but i did plug/unplug it more than 20-30 times).

[spiceBar]

i got both of my FC660Cs from widebasket (ebay seller) - second one is in the mail, widebasket is quick and very professional.

question for spicebar and anyone else who has used the FC660C for a longer period of time....

have you used the mini USB port extensively (like connecting/disconnecting the cable every day), if so, do you think it will last? on my board i try to "use" the port as few times as possible, that's why i'm getting a second one for having it at work, so i don't have to plug in the cable every day, because i fear that the port itself will wear out. it's relatively wobbly as it is right now, and that's pretty much a new board (well a few months old, but i did plug/unplug it more than 20-30 times).

On some keyboards the USB port is wobbly on purpose, so there is less stress on it when the cable is pulled. The Novatouch is designed like that.

I have plugged/unplugged my FC660C very often. No problem so far, but I think having one at work that you don't have to unplug all the time is a good idea, if you can afford it.

Also, you don't have to always unplug on the keyboard side. You could unplug on the computer's side for more safety. I understand it's not as easy to move the keyboard with the cable attached, but it can be easier if you find a L-shaped mini-USB cable.

If you end up breaking the mini-USB port, it may also be possible to find someone to repair it, so it's not the end of your board either.

[Polymer]

With a RF87U, a Novatouch, a FC660C and an HHKB Type-S in front of me, here is what I find:
- The heaviest is the HHKB Type-S
- Then comes the Novatouch
- Then the FC660C and the RF87U, which feel about the same, except for the lightest keys on the RF.

The ESC key on my RF (it's supposed to be 55g) is only marginally heavier than the keys on the HHKB. I know it's not supposed to be that way, but I have always noticed that my HHKB was surprisingly heavy for a 45g Topre.

My FC660C has always been on the lighter side. From what I have heard, it should not be the case. But it's definitely lighter than the HHKB, by a good margin.

I guess it's all due to the difficulty of producing rubber domes that are all consistent in strength.

In the end, it does not make a lot of difference. They feel similar enough that it does not matter when I use them.

Yeap...My HHKB is definitely LIGHTER than 55g...but definitely heavier than what seems to be an average 45g...did a rough coin test just to test that out.

The 660c seems to vary I think...Seemed like earlier ones were as you are describing and later ones were heavier than the HHKB...but maybe that was a flaw?  Definitely seems hard for them to get it perfect but as you said, it really doesn't matter...a few grams here or there is not going to make a difference in feel.

[Lunatique]

My FC660C is heavier/more tactile than the 45g keys on my RF 87U Ergonomic weighted, and just a bit less so than the 55g version of 87U. I guess my FC660C is more like 50g, and I've read quite a few others who say the same about theirs too.

BTW, if you're concerned about the mini USB plug, maybe you can add a layer of protection by putting an adapter between the keyboard and the cable, so the cable is only interfacing with the adapter and the port on the keyboard doesn't get worn out, since the adapter would just permanently be connected to it?

[bowji]

They are different kind of animals, maybe that's why I'm keeping both still 
For me Leo have "heavier" like feeling compare to HHKB, very close to 87u 55.
I think the metal plate is making the difference, but I wouldn't guard this argument for long.
Comparing Novatouch and FC660c can be tricky one.
I was using it with default ABS keys vs denser PBT on Leo, so probably you will need to ask someone who managed to replace keys on CM.

That seemed like the case for me too, for some reason, the 660c does not feel like a 45g. Im no topre expert(or "elite") but I was definitely able notice the difference. The 660c seemed like the perfect balance between 45g and 55g. Personally, HHKB felt too light for me and 55g u felt too heavy but that just might be my experience in getting use to the 660c. I do agree the Novatouch and 660c is hard to compare due to the use of different stock keycaps.

They are different kind of animals, maybe that's why I'm keeping both still 
For me Leo have "heavier" like feeling compare to HHKB, very close to 87u 55.
I think the metal plate is making the difference, but I wouldn't guard this argument for long.
Comparing Novatouch and FC660c can be tricky one.
I was using it with default ABS keys vs denser PBT on Leo, so probably you will need to ask someone who managed to replace keys on CM.

I think the later releases of the 660c seemed heavier than the earlier ones...But both feel heavier than RF45g IMO.  Some basic testing I did showed that as well..they take slightly more weight than the 45g on a RF but less than the 55g on a RF...

With a RF87U, a Novatouch, a FC660C and an HHKB Type-S in front of me, here is what I find:
- The heaviest is the HHKB Type-S
- Then comes the Novatouch
- Then the FC660C and the RF87U, which feel about the same, except for the lightest keys on the RF.

The ESC key on my RF (it's supposed to be 55g) is only marginally heavier than the keys on the HHKB. I know it's not supposed to be that way, but I have always noticed that my HHKB was surprisingly heavy for a 45g Topre.

My FC660C has always been on the lighter side. From what I have heard, it should not be the case. But it's definitely lighter than the HHKB, by a good margin.

I guess it's all due to the difficulty of producing rubber domes that are all consistent in strength.

In the end, it does not make a lot of difference. They feel similar enough that it does not matter when I use them.

When did you buy your 660c? and is it the dye-sub version?
Im asking since some 660c owners think that the earlier versions has a lighter switch weight. Im guessing, maybe the switch weight was modified with the release of the dye-sub versions?

[spiceBar]

They are different kind of animals, maybe that's why I'm keeping both still 
For me Leo have "heavier" like feeling compare to HHKB, very close to 87u 55.
I think the metal plate is making the difference, but I wouldn't guard this argument for long.
Comparing Novatouch and FC660c can be tricky one.
I was using it with default ABS keys vs denser PBT on Leo, so probably you will need to ask someone who managed to replace keys on CM.

That seemed like the case for me too, for some reason, the 660c does not feel like a 45g. Im no topre expert(or "elite") but I was definitely able notice the difference. The 660c seemed like the perfect balance between 45g and 55g. Personally, HHKB felt too light for me and 55g u felt too heavy but that just might be my experience in getting use to the 660c. I do agree the Novatouch and 660c is hard to compare due to the use of different stock keycaps.

They are different kind of animals, maybe that's why I'm keeping both still 
For me Leo have "heavier" like feeling compare to HHKB, very close to 87u 55.
I think the metal plate is making the difference, but I wouldn't guard this argument for long.
Comparing Novatouch and FC660c can be tricky one.
I was using it with default ABS keys vs denser PBT on Leo, so probably you will need to ask someone who managed to replace keys on CM.

I think the later releases of the 660c seemed heavier than the earlier ones...But both feel heavier than RF45g IMO.  Some basic testing I did showed that as well..they take slightly more weight than the 45g on a RF but less than the 55g on a RF...

With a RF87U, a Novatouch, a FC660C and an HHKB Type-S in front of me, here is what I find:
- The heaviest is the HHKB Type-S
- Then comes the Novatouch
- Then the FC660C and the RF87U, which feel about the same, except for the lightest keys on the RF.

The ESC key on my RF (it's supposed to be 55g) is only marginally heavier than the keys on the HHKB. I know it's not supposed to be that way, but I have always noticed that my HHKB was surprisingly heavy for a 45g Topre.

My FC660C has always been on the lighter side. From what I have heard, it should not be the case. But it's definitely lighter than the HHKB, by a good margin.

I guess it's all due to the difficulty of producing rubber domes that are all consistent in strength.

In the end, it does not make a lot of difference. They feel similar enough that it does not matter when I use them.

When did you buy your 660c? and is it the dye-sub version?
Im asking since some 660c owners think that the earlier versions has a lighter switch weight. Im guessing, maybe the switch weight was modified with the release of the dye-sub versions?

I bought my FC660C in mid-2013.

I don't think I have the dye-sub version, because I can actually feel the legends when I touch the keycaps. Its very subtle but I can feel them.

So mine may be an early batch.

[Sygaldry]

The FC660C is much better in my opinion.

The HHKB's layout is a nightmare. The Fn key has to be pressed with the right pinky, and you have to use it all the time, as the arrows are not directly accessible. If you have to use the Fn layer all the time, then at least Fn key should be located in a place where it can be activated by a thumb.

The location of the Home and End keys makes them really hard to reach. I use them all the time and they must also be pressed in combination with Fn. So you put your pinky to the right of the Shift key and you have to reach the K key. Maybe it's just me, but after a while it becomes tiring and almost painful. If you have big hands, maybe it's not a problem.

Clearly, some people love the HHKB's layout, and they want you to love it, too. They are very vocal about it.

Well I don't like it. It sucks.

The FC660C's layout is much more natural and easy to use. It has arrow keys, and the Fn key can be relocated to the left or the right of the keyboard. I put it on the left.

Some people say that they don't like the look of the FC660C because of the right side. At first glance, it seems that there are just two keys (Insert and Delete) hanging there, and that the empty space could have better been used. But when you use the keyboard, you realize that this empty space is great because it gives tactile clues. When all the keys are grouped together, it's harder to tell which is which just by touch.

Your fingers don't see. If you judge a keyboard by its look, you are mistaken.

We're no more vocal about the HHKB than you are about the FC660C, sir.

Really? I don't have "FC660C elite" in my signature for example. I don't even use my FC660C every day.

I own both the FC660C and the HHKB Type-S. What about you?

See, that attitude of yours is exactly what I'm talking about. Do you realize how self absorbed you sound in half of your posts?

You're always attacking people who point out your inconsistencies or your condescending attitude. You made a post about how HHKB users are vocal and I pointed out the fact that your thoughts on the FC660C are just as opinionated if not more. Then you respond by attacking my views on the HHKB where the ONLY thing I posted about was your attitude; I made NO comment on the HHKB vs. The FC660C in the post you quoted. The fact that you felt the need to attack me on the grounds of my title instead of addressing the post is just silly. Get your head out of your ass man.

By the way the title is from this thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51282.0
No need to get so butt hurt about it.
This is the second time you've attacked my title so I'm fairly certain you ARE butt hurt about it.

This is also the second time you've responded to me with "I have more keyboards than you so my opinion is more valid"

(By the way, what does the fact that I can see how opinionated you are have to do with my experience with the FC660C? I'm having a very hard time making the logical connections)

Since you're obviously fishing for my opinion on the FC660C, the reason I don't have one is because I had an FC660M and I hated the layout. I don't tell people how ****ty it is on a daily basis though because I know a layout that doesn't work for me might work for someone else. YOU, on the other hand, try to convince people of how inadequate the HHKB layout is on  daily basis.

Also, do you have a cookie cutter response for every time someone pushes your buttons?

To toss your half baked logic back at you:
"Hey, I have 10 computers and I use them every day, do you? If not my opinion on computer peripherals is more valid than yours."

[monotagary]

All arguments aside... HHKB still no. 1!

[Oobly]

Novatouch with SA profile keycap is the best of those two... oh, wait...    )

The arrows and edit key positions on HHKB Fn layer make it unusable for me, I prefer the feel of the plate mounted FC and the FC has better rubber feet and weighs more so it doesn't slide around like the HHKB. For these reasons I prefer the Leopold.

If the HHKB were more affordable, fully programmable, had a plate, better rubber feet and more keycap options I would like it. But it doesn't. So I don't.

Novatouch with SA > FC660C > HHKB 2 Pro

[bowji]

More

They are different kind of animals, maybe that's why I'm keeping both still 
For me Leo have "heavier" like feeling compare to HHKB, very close to 87u 55.
I think the metal plate is making the difference, but I wouldn't guard this argument for long.
Comparing Novatouch and FC660c can be tricky one.
I was using it with default ABS keys vs denser PBT on Leo, so probably you will need to ask someone who managed to replace keys on CM.

That seemed like the case for me too, for some reason, the 660c does not feel like a 45g. Im no topre expert(or "elite") but I was definitely able notice the difference. The 660c seemed like the perfect balance between 45g and 55g. Personally, HHKB felt too light for me and 55g u felt too heavy but that just might be my experience in getting use to the 660c. I do agree the Novatouch and 660c is hard to compare due to the use of different stock keycaps.

They are different kind of animals, maybe that's why I'm keeping both still 
For me Leo have "heavier" like feeling compare to HHKB, very close to 87u 55.
I think the metal plate is making the difference, but I wouldn't guard this argument for long.
Comparing Novatouch and FC660c can be tricky one.
I was using it with default ABS keys vs denser PBT on Leo, so probably you will need to ask someone who managed to replace keys on CM.

I think the later releases of the 660c seemed heavier than the earlier ones...But both feel heavier than RF45g IMO.  Some basic testing I did showed that as well..they take slightly more weight than the 45g on a RF but less than the 55g on a RF...

With a RF87U, a Novatouch, a FC660C and an HHKB Type-S in front of me, here is what I find:
- The heaviest is the HHKB Type-S
- Then comes the Novatouch
- Then the FC660C and the RF87U, which feel about the same, except for the lightest keys on the RF.

The ESC key on my RF (it's supposed to be 55g) is only marginally heavier than the keys on the HHKB. I know it's not supposed to be that way, but I have always noticed that my HHKB was surprisingly heavy for a 45g Topre.

My FC660C has always been on the lighter side. From what I have heard, it should not be the case. But it's definitely lighter than the HHKB, by a good margin.

I guess it's all due to the difficulty of producing rubber domes that are all consistent in strength.

In the end, it does not make a lot of difference. They feel similar enough that it does not matter when I use them.

When did you buy your 660c? and is it the dye-sub version?
Im asking since some 660c owners think that the earlier versions has a lighter switch weight. Im guessing, maybe the switch weight was modified with the release of the dye-sub versions?

I bought my FC660C in mid-2013.

I don't think I have the dye-sub version, because I can actually feel the legends when I touch the keycaps. Its very subtle but I can feel them.

So mine may be an early batch.

Thanks for the input 
So I guess its safe to say the early none dye-sub 660c is 45g and the later dye-sub versions are ~50g (somewhere between 45g & 55g). A unique feel no other topre boards offer... (660c advocate here but I do believe HHKB is a great board).
Topre from Leopold is still a young breed, as I mentioned before, its inevitable considering HHKB's longer history that there are more HHKB users/fans. I tried the HHKB but never owned one so I would value someones opinion who owns both 660c+HHKB opinion more than band-wagoners.

[spiceBar]

The FC660C is much better in my opinion.

The HHKB's layout is a nightmare. The Fn key has to be pressed with the right pinky, and you have to use it all the time, as the arrows are not directly accessible. If you have to use the Fn layer all the time, then at least Fn key should be located in a place where it can be activated by a thumb.

The location of the Home and End keys makes them really hard to reach. I use them all the time and they must also be pressed in combination with Fn. So you put your pinky to the right of the Shift key and you have to reach the K key. Maybe it's just me, but after a while it becomes tiring and almost painful. If you have big hands, maybe it's not a problem.

Clearly, some people love the HHKB's layout, and they want you to love it, too. They are very vocal about it.

Well I don't like it. It sucks.

The FC660C's layout is much more natural and easy to use. It has arrow keys, and the Fn key can be relocated to the left or the right of the keyboard. I put it on the left.

Some people say that they don't like the look of the FC660C because of the right side. At first glance, it seems that there are just two keys (Insert and Delete) hanging there, and that the empty space could have better been used. But when you use the keyboard, you realize that this empty space is great because it gives tactile clues. When all the keys are grouped together, it's harder to tell which is which just by touch.

Your fingers don't see. If you judge a keyboard by its look, you are mistaken.

We're no more vocal about the HHKB than you are about the FC660C, sir.

Really? I don't have "FC660C elite" in my signature for example. I don't even use my FC660C every day.

I own both the FC660C and the HHKB Type-S. What about you?

See, that attitude of yours is exactly what I'm talking about. Do you realize how self absorbed you sound in half of your posts?

You're always attacking people who point out your inconsistencies or your condescending attitude. You made a post about how HHKB users are vocal and I pointed out the fact that your thoughts on the FC660C are just as opinionated if not more. Then you respond by attacking my views on the HHKB where the ONLY thing I posted about was your attitude; I made NO comment on the HHKB vs. The FC660C in the post you quoted. The fact that you felt the need to attack me on the grounds of my title instead of addressing the post is just silly. Get your head out of your ass man.

By the way the title is from this thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51282.0
No need to get so butt hurt about it.
This is the second time you've attacked my title so I'm fairly certain you ARE butt hurt about it.

This is also the second time you've responded to me with "I have more keyboards than you so my opinion is more valid"

(By the way, what does the fact that I can see how opinionated you are have to do with my experience with the FC660C? I'm having a very hard time making the logical connections)

Since you're obviously fishing for my opinion on the FC660C, the reason I don't have one is because I had an FC660M and I hated the layout. I don't tell people how ****ty it is on a daily basis though because I know a layout that doesn't work for me might work for someone else. YOU, on the other hand, try to convince people of how inadequate the HHKB layout is on  daily basis.

Also, do you have a cookie cutter response for every time someone pushes your buttons?

To toss your half baked logic back at you:
"Hey, I have 10 computers and I use them every day, do you? If not my opinion on computer peripherals is more valid than yours."

That was a very long and mostly off topic post to justify yourself...

Yes, I asked you if you owned the FC660C, so what? It's a thread about comparing both!

Thinking about it, from a purely logical point of view, the HHKB being the absolute best keyboard in the world (for some), it is indeed not necessary to own or have tried both to trash the FC660C, or any other keyboard while we are at it.

My bad.