I want a good keyboard... Majestouch all the way to HHKB Pro 2...

[maxlugar]

even though I have been to that page probably 20 times this week.

Heh, heh, you sound like me before I bought my HHKB Pro 2.  Actually, I probably visited that page more than 20 times in a week.

My wife, my staff, and many of my friends believe my obsession with keyboards is bizarre and unhealthy.  I mean how many times do I hear: "Ah come one, it's just a f..king keyboard!" to which I reply that that my unhealthy interest in computer keyboards is relatively harmless compared to my other more "dangerous" interests such as  hunting and skydiving.

As a  junior geekhack, I am fascinated by the collective experience and knowledge shared by the more senior community die hards.  Not that I would actually take an X-acto knife to my Topre rubber domes...

You seem like you're well on the way to becomming a full-fledged geekhack yourself.  We're making bets on whether you end up going with the HHKB or the Topre...

[lal]

You seem like you're well on the way to becomming a full-fledged geekhack yourself.  We're making bets on whether you end up going with the HHKB or the Topre...

So one qualifies as a "full-fledged geekhacker" only if you own Topre's complete array of products?  Or is one enough?

Anyway, I prefer staying a lurker and buy several Real Keyboards(TM) with mechanical switches for the price of a single Topre rubber dome.

[lal]

You are only a full-fledged geekhacker of you own all of the Topres, have the complete Model M line, the F is your favorite keyboard, and you occasionaly set fire to a keyboard to identify the type of plastic.

You do not qualify, you wimp!

Oh, no room for bender, huh? Fine. I'll go build my own keyboard forum. With blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the keyboards and the blackjack!

[AndrewZorn]

lal is your Topre hatred serious/reasonable or just a joke?

and yes, I don't own anything yet, but because of over-the-shoulder and my mistake of talking about it ONCE, I get many "$200?!?!?!?!?! JUST A KEYBOARD!!!!"s a day.  Not that I didn't think/say the same thing at first, but I certainly recognized that there can be a good and crappy version of anything.

Earlier it was "just a flashlight".

Why's it so hard?  I respond with "$40,000! oh, just a car!  it takes gas, 4 seats, rolls!" etc but for some reason it's never the same.

[lal]

lal is your Topre hatred serious/reasonable or just a joke?

I'd say half 'n half.  I consider Topre a joke for being *much* more expensive than any mechanical switch board.  I mean, it's rubber dome!  Indistinguishable from a 3$ Dell Crapmaster to the average user!

Yeah, maybe the highest quality materials and precision manufacturing et cetera bla bla.  And I'm fine if these things are more imporant to some than tactile and audible feedback.

What I can't stand though is celebrating Topre as the ultimate end goal and talking poor newbies into spending their hard earned money on Topres when they could have a multitude of Real Keyboards(TM) with different types of real switches for the price of ONE Topre.

[rdjack21]

I'd say half 'n half.  I consider Topre a joke for being *much* more expensive than any mechanical switch board.  I mean, it's rubber dome!  Indistinguishable from a 3$ Dell Crapmaster to the average user!

Oh here we go again.... Give me a break lal. Most average users can't tell the difference between non click mechanical keyboards and a rubber dome ether. And everyone I've let touch any of my Topre boards knows they are not a $3 crap Dell keyboard. But those same people did not notice much of a difference between a crappy rubber dome and a cherry brown filco.

Yeah, maybe the highest quality materials and precision manufacturing et cetera bla bla.  And I'm fine if these things are more imporant to some than tactile and audible feedback.

The Topre key boards do have tactile feed back true it is different than the tactile feed back of a mechanical board but it does have tactile feed back.  Personally I prefer a non clicky board for every day use.

What I can't stand though is celebrating Topre as the ultimate end goal and talking poor newbies into spending their hard earned money on Topres when they could have a multitude of Real Keyboards(TM) with different types of real switches for the price of ONE Topre.

Well I'm sorry but it is the ultimate end goal for some of us. And it is a Real Keyboard(TM). I've used pretty much all the currently available mechanical keyboards out there with the exception of some of the Alps that only come on some older boards (blues, pinks ect..) and I find the Topre switch to have a superior typing experience. That does not mean that every one will like them. You can find evidence of that here. But what should be noted is that those that prefer a Heavy switch (BS, Alps white) are the ones that tend to not like them. I personally try to get people to try other boards first before they move to a Topre precisely because they are expensive. If they find something they like great that is what all of this is about. If they have not found something they truly like then it is time to try a Topre. But if a new member specifically asks about a Topre board then I will answer their questions and present the good and the bad of a Topre board. This thread is the reason I took my HHKB Pro apart so the question of what makes it different from a Realforce could be answered with as little bias as possible.

I have one question for you though have you even tried a Topre? Or at least given it a chance under your fingers because as you know you really need to use a keyboard for a while before you can form a informed decision about any keyboard.

[maxlugar]

You are only a full-fledged geekhacker of you own all of the Topres, have the complete Model M line, the F is your favorite keyboard, and you occasionaly set fire to a keyboard to identify the type of plastic.

!

Hey now, I meet most of the above criteria...except that part about setting fire to keyboards.

[maxlugar]

So one qualifies as a "full-fledged geekhacker" only if you own Topre's complete array of products?  Or is one enough?

Anyway, I prefer staying a lurker and buy several Real Keyboards(TM) with mechanical switches for the price of a single Topre rubber dome.

I'd say visiting EliteKeyboards.com 20 times a week to stare at keyboard specs and spending > 10 hours a week on geekhack.org qualifies for being "well on the way" to being a full-fledged geekhacker.

There are other criteria also...accordiing to webwit...

[o2dazone]

As far as I'm concerned a switch may contain a leprechaun pulling a lever, as long as it feels good. Why would a tactile feeling and nice sound be limited to funny springs? My best feeling and sounding keyboard is magnetic.

I'd pay for that

[rdjack21]

As far as I'm concerned a switch may contain a leprechaun pulling a lever, as long as it feels good. Why would a tactile feeling and nice sound be limited to funny springs? My best feeling and sounding keyboard is magnetic.

I'm not quite ready to try the Data Hand but I would really love to. The way it is laid out and the way you operate it really intrigues me. But then again if we think that Topre's are expensive I guess we just to take a look at what one of those cost that is if you can find one that is.

[lal]

As far as I'm concerned a switch may contain a leprechaun pulling a lever, as long as it feels good.

Yeah, if it has a lever it's mechanical

Why would a tactile feeling and nice sound be limited to funny springs?

It's not.  It's about the speed the resistance drops.

It's touching how eager some other fanboys defend their beloved Topres.  I for one don't want to go back to where I came from, i.e. pressing into pieces of gum.  With the difference of paying ten times as much for the same ol' s**t.  Ridiculous.

Think what you want, I say Topre is cleverly ripping you off with their boring rubber domes.

[maxlugar]

Yeah, if it has a lever it's mechanical



It's not.  It's about the speed the resistance drops.

It's touching how eager some other fanboys defend their beloved Topres.  I for one don't want to go back to where I came from, i.e. pressing into pieces of gum.  With the difference of paying ten times as much for the same ol' s**t.  Ridiculous.

Think what you want, I say Topre is cleverly ripping you off with their boring rubber domes.

I LOVE my original IBM PC AT 84-key buckling spring over capacitive contact keyboard.  It is my personal favourite because of the precise and crisp audible and tactile feedback.  The 60g keyforce (as measured by the ripometer) is ideal for me and it has the best on-center feel of any keyboard.

However, I am also very fond of my Happy Hacking Pro 2 keyboard which uses Topre rubber dome keyswitches.

My initial impression of the HHKB was, WTF?  I just shelled out $250 for a keyboard that feels like a slightly tighter version of my crap Dell rubber dome keyboard.  It didn't take long for me to really appreciate the HHKB which is really the polar opposite of my beloved IBM PC AT keyboard.  Extended typing on this RUBBER DOME keyboard is enjoyable due to subtleties that are difficult to describe. The keystrokes are light, but their is definitely a reassuring tactile response.

I can type for extended periods with my HHKB without fatigue which is not the case with the crap Dell rubber dome keyboard.  I don't know how much experience you have actually using a Topre keyboard for an extended period.

The market demand for Topre keyboards is driven by users who specifically seek them out for their feature functionality.  I don't believe Topre is ripping anyone off.  There are certainly customers who buy Topre keyboards and find that they do not live up to their expectations.  But there are obviously many more people who "get it" once they acquire a Topre keyboard, and purchase additonal Topre keyboards.  Yes, it is a rubber dome keyboard but I believe the Topre capacitive key switch is the best modern key switch available.

Topre's are very expensive, but thousands of customers are readily willing to pay a huge premium for the value they receive.  You believe it is a perceived value-add, but I and many others understand the real value. I don't give a rat's ass about prestige or the "coolness factor".  It's all about the typing experience for me.  I am buying a second Topre keyboard because of my personal experience with the HHKB.  Or perhaps I am being "cleverly ripped off."  

[clickclack]

So one qualifies as a "full-fledged geekhacker" only if you own Topre's complete array of products?  Or is one enough?

I figure if you are on this site and post about keyboards, to the rest of the world you are about as "qualified" as you need to be! haahaa =P

You are only a full-fledged geekhacker of you own all of the Topres, have the complete Model M line, the F is your favorite keyboard, and you occasionaly set fire to a keyboard to identify the type of plastic.
You do not qualify, you wimp!

SO THERE!

As far as I'm concerned a switch may contain a leprechaun pulling a lever, as long as it feels good. Why would a tactile feeling and nice sound be limited to funny springs? My best feeling and sounding keyboard is magnetic.

Show off
but seriously though...I would pay a ton for a leprechaun to pull a lever!


I did a little test with my mom and some of the keyboards that I brought over. She hates the "ping" of the model M, and doesn't like the "clack" of the bottoming out AT101W, and thought the layout of my AEII was outta wack (?). But when she then used her normal HP rubber dome keyboard, she immediately said EEEEWWWW!!! And abruptly pushed it away! haahaa, she said it felt gooey and didn't seem to travel far enough. What a riot! I had her go through all this with her eyes closed. I think she is down with the AT101W now
I would really love to get her a Filco 10keyless with brown cherries.

Anywho I feel a good keyboard is one that you like (maybe even love) and it does what you want and lasts. Reviews are very important (since you really cant see any of this stuff in stores) and buying and returning are a good idea if you must.

[AndrewZorn]

Get a HHKB and a Filco with Cherry Browns and get it over with. All this pondering and typing..

If you don't like one of them, sell it as almost new.

Funny.  The first post.  Because after all this, it may be my plan.

I found out there is a shipping cost from Elite and that the $0 was an error.
I can't decide and still kind of want a mechanical switch.
The HHKB is too appealing: the Topre switches can be had for cheaper (like the $145 101 in the marketplace, won't leave me alone) but its size is so nice too...
I keep thinking a Filco for $100 would be a supergood deal, but if I combined shipping for this order... and ordered TWO at once, it would kind of be like that... especially if I DO end up getting both...

One last thing that stopped me is the Deck 82 key.  Almost as small as the HHKB, mechanical (black) keys.  Now I thought I wanted brown from a Filco but the black would be something different from the Topre (which makes me consider a black or blue Filco... just to have a reason to use it over the Topre... opinions? will brown be too much like the Topre to stop using the HHKB for even a moment?).  But I hate the Deck layout... it looks like it is 100% for games.  But then again, I could use it like that, Deck for games and HHKB for typing.  But the Deck also looks gaudy...

Still thinking about this ALL THE TIME, on the forum even more than XtremeSystems, which is a lot, constantly Googling things I already have.  When I'm about to order $400 worth of keyboards, TWO, I can't help but to think about it a lot.

[timw4mail]

Well, I don't know what the Topres are like, but I'm pretty sure that a Deck would not be to your taste. Linear switches aren't fun, unless you like to bottom out.

If you wanted an experimental small form factor keyboard, perhaps you should look at a  Cherry G84-4100 keyboard.  The ML switches on that keyboard are somewhat like a low-profile brown MX switch. This all assumes that you wouldn't mind a low-profile switch.

Really, I think the first step is to decide on switches. If you can find the switches you like, then it's a matter of finding the keyboard you want with those switches. But, in order to see which switches you like, you'll probably have to buy some keyboards, and that comes back to the original problem, doesn't it?

[AndrewZorn]

well, like I've been told many times, if I'm drawn to the HHKB and its layout, there isn't much of another choice.  But I still want to own a mechanical!  So in comes the Filco... but if I get a brown, and it ends up similar to the HHKB, then 1) The HHKB was kind of wasteful and 2) not much of a reason to use the Filco, that's why I'm considering black.  Not too much of a fan of clicky blue, and I do try to play games a lot... who knows.

I'd order the HHKB and "see how it goes" if it wasn't for shipping costs and the way I expect I will end up ordering it anyway...

Thanks a ton everyone, another expensive 'hobby'... a week ago it was still flashlights, which I'm not even done with yet because all of my stuff hasn't arrived yet.

EDIT though an idea comes to mind when I see your avatar (not that it hasn't already been suggested)... a Model M?  Then I could have the quiet, cool, modern HHKB with a strong, manly classic Model M.
Time to go find out what year to buy, etc...

[Rajagra]

Post 141.  Time for some humor.

I'll take the 3rd route: NSFW

[AndrewZorn]

even if i had all the money in the world, the choice is impossible

even if i had all the keyboards in the world, typing on more than one at a time is impossible

im going to yet again go to sleep thinking about this, maybe tomorrow i will know
but hhkb+M seems like a wiser alternative to hhkb+brown

[maxlugar]

If you have all the money in the world the choice is easy. Buy them all and if you're not Leona Helmsley you give the rejects to the housekeepers.

God rest her mean-spirited soul.  I think about her everytime I'm in Phoenix and I see her former winter pad high up on the hill...

[msiegel]

I'm inspired. So who wants to clean my house and get my rejected Fujitsu Peerless as reward?

wow, that thing looks like fujitsu reverse-engineered a model m, and replaced the hammers with domes:
http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/peerless.html

oh, uhh... are you offering free airfare?

[maxlugar]

Q: What Does Michael Vick Call "Leona Helmsley" $12 million tiny white Maltese?
A: An Appetizer

I didn't realize Michael Vick had acquired new taste since his travels to East Asia.  

I would have guessed an energy tax credit because it requires a lot less electricity to "get the job done" on a Maltese vs. a Greyhound.

[maxlugar]

Then I could have the quiet, cool, modern HHKB with a strong, manly classic Model M.
QUOTE]

HHKB is a fine example of a quality modern keyboard (I'm typing on one now) but compared to the original IBM PC AT 84-key keyboard, the Model M is a girly man's keyboard!

[wellington1869]

like patrick and tim said,  you cant stop with just one; you'll eventually get them all and then you'll know which one you like.   Sell off the ones you dont want anymore and you'll get some money back that way.  I think all we can really tell you is which ones to try first based on what you're looking for. But only you will be able to tell which is your favorite.

[timw4mail]

If you are going to try a buckling spring, you've got to go all the way, and find an AT Model F keyboard.

There's a reason I don't have three Filco boards with Cherry blue, Cherry brown, and ALPS...I got the cheapest boards for the switches that I could. With the exception of the Chicony  board with the Fake "Cherries", they are all still built better than your average rubber dome keyboard, so you don't really lose anything.

It would be a lot less fun getting into mechanical keyboards if it was easy to just know which kind of switch you wanted, and just stuck with it. But it just isn't that easy.

[AndrewZorn]

Okay, bringing it back for closure.  Ended up with the following actually-in-my-hands a couple of days ago:

Used (like-new, no shiny keys, box and all, etc) HHKB Pro2 white, printed
New Filco 104key Brown NON-NKRO

both were too good of deals to get the 'better' versions of each, in my mind.


HHKB Pro 2 --------------

So anyway I've been using the HHKB for the majority of the time just out of principle.  Very nice, very crisp, looks awesome with the lettering to my surprise... so bold, defined, clear.  The layout itself took maybe a day of getting used to, mainly backspace, but just starting to get used to taking advantage of home/end and stuff.

Build quality and all seems great, I think the plastic plate thing is something to keep it light and the halves are not supposed to match up.

Changed my mind on the DIP switches... I thought for sure I would want Mac mode, and I still do.  But switching Alt and Fn was a mistake... how does anyone properly use home/end having to reach with left pinky to start using them?  All my pre-planning was useless when I actually started trying to use it like that.  Still can't figure out some things... like, the right Alt/meta don't seem to do as I expected all the time.  Seems like the right Alt will send CTRL+ALT sometimes?  Or was that the right meta?  Can't remember how it works since I have been switching back and forth.

Arrow keys and all the other stuff not as bad as I expected.  Ctrl is nice, but I haven't played games yet.  Part of my decision to switch Alt and meta in the first place, though, was to be able to hit Alt (old meta) with my thumb on WASD (/WARS).

Still have no idea why my index finger though has Fn keys for keys that already exist... especially without combos, like / and -... while my right pinky has to do so much work!

Form factor is better than I even hoped, it's great having the keyboard centered with the mouse off to the right.  Trying to figure out how to get the proper desk space to use my 104-long Filco wrist-rest under my HHKB AND the mouse at the same time, as that would be great.

The actual keys/switches/typing part, yes, it feels great.  So much more exact than my G15 (that before sending it home, tried one last time, felt kind of nice, like tapping on a pillow, but hard to say I would PREFER it).  BUT, after studying my G15 in wait of the key keyboards, I was surprised to find out how much less different the Topre is than a membrane.  Heresy, I know, but I feel like the Topre really is like rubber-dome STYLE, but the best of the best rubber dome ever.  I can't feel a tactility point yet.  They key seems to do the same "up or down, no between" action as the G15.  Keys don't wobble, don't mush when stuck down, etc, but it still FEELS like there's rubber underneath each key.  Not in a bad way, just not what I expected.


Filco 104key Brown Non-NKRO --------------

At first, I took the Filco out of the box only to do a rollover test (with disappointing results) and basic functionality tests.  For some reason it is VERY picky about USB ports though, I thought it was broken for a long time.

Felt weird, little bumps in the keystroke, keycaps having used the HHKB felt SUPER EL CHEAPO, lettering didn't look as nice, etc.  It is heavier, more of a heft to it.

Why is my Filco logo all scratched when I look at it in direct light?

Still too paranoid to put on the red Esc (or flip the HHKB spacebar) even though I have taken apart my G15 and other keyboards plenty.

So I put it back in box to remain pristine for a while.

...

But yesterday I was unexpectedly forced to downsize here in Iraq and had to pack up all my nice new packaging.  This was very hard for me.  Waterproofed the boxes and all before letting them go.  So the Filco sat in my laptop bag, I'm taking it home with me!  No way I went through all the trouble to not get to use it for X (XX maybe even) months.  The Dell AT101, on the other hand...

So anyway today I got curious again and took the Filco back out.  Combination of making sure it was okay in the box and all... easily moved the HHKB aside.  Time to start actually trying to type on the Filco.

And wow.
I really hate to say it.
But I did a 5min test and this post up to here with the Brown switches, and I am amazed.

They are so light.  I can feel the little bumps and after only a few minutes I am only bottoming out half the time.  It feels great (though I am offcenter again from the desk, and maybe my arm only hurts because of this, but my fingers are not tired, nor were they with the HHKB, then again, the G15 never really gave me problems either).

It's like the Filco has character where the HHKB is soulless perfection.  I make myself keep going to type more on the Filco instead of just getting the job done, and rolling along for a few seconds without bottoming out is awesome.  The layout seems wrong after a couple days on the HHKB, and I don't need about half the board, but software can kind of fix that...

Non-linear note: going back up to edit some stuff about the HHKB, my opinion kind of only solidifies as I go on...

Not that I think such a test is very scientific, because of the human factors, but I don't know which I type faster on, but the clicks of the Filco make it feel like I am getting more done.  It also feels more 'fun' and like I am involved more.  It ALSO does feel significantly different than a membrane (see stuff above on the Topre switch if you skipped it).  When I was tapping keys individually at first they felt cheap and crunchy, but when you type on all of them, it is a much nicer feeling.


Anyway, so now I am TORN between that which I already own!  Not enough space on this tiny desk for both.  Each has its merits, and I am blown away by the Filco even though I spent 1/3 as much as I did on the HHKB (even thinking it was perhaps frivolous, until I used it).  I won't say (admit?) that it is better than the HHKB, and I definitely love the HHKB's softness and quietness and layout and look, but the Filco is DEFINITELY not going to remain perfect in-box, nor will the HHKB become something I don't use every day...

OH MAN, this is not easy...

TL,DR: the HHKB is just as described, perfect.  The Filco feels totally different and actually lives up to the descriptor of "MECHANICAL" keyboard.

[AndrewZorn]

I mean, I really like perfection too... just saying that the Filco can't really be 'compared' to the HHKB.

Though I should be saying "Topre switches" and "Brown Cherry switches" as the HHKB probably has more soul than a Realforce.

EDIT so here's an example of some of the weirdness I am getting - right Alt.
Ctrl + RtAlt + Fn-Del = acts as should
RtAlt + Fn-F4 = does not close window
LtAlt + Fn-F4 = closes window

??

I have Mac mode on, Left meta to Fn, and delete to backspace.  So my DIP orientation is 011100.

[Rajagra]

EDIT so here's an example of some of the weirdness I am getting - right Alt.
RtAlt + Fn-F4 = does not close window

Sounds like right Alt is acting as AltGr, so this may be normal. I get the same on any keyboard. I'm using Colemak atm.

If I change to US layout, right Alt F4 works. (Might need to change setting for the app and the default.)

[rdjack21]

I mean, I really like perfection too... just saying that the Filco can't really be 'compared' to the HHKB.

Though I should be saying "Topre switches" and "Brown Cherry switches" as the HHKB probably has more soul than a Realforce.

I tend to agree with you on one point. At first I did not like the Brown Cherry switches either but after typing on a Topre for a while to develop the lighter touch needed for the Browns then going back and trying them again I like them much better. And yes I can feel the bump on the Browns as well. It takes more time on the Topre's too feel the bump on them because it is even more subtle than the Browns. But I still don't really like the Blues and I'm not completely sure why I just don't. Maybe the click maybe not but I don't seem to be able to convince my fingers to type with confidence on them.

EDIT so here's an example of some of the weirdness I am getting - right Alt.
Ctrl + RtAlt + Fn-Del = acts as should
RtAlt + Fn-F4 = does not close window
LtAlt + Fn-F4 = closes window

??

I have Mac mode on, Left meta to Fn, and delete to backspace.  So my DIP orientation is 011100.

Try 101100 and see how that works. The only difference with the Lite Ext mode and Mac mode is the Escape key stays escape and Backspace stays Backspace instead of Clear but is is a PC mode instead of a Mac mode so should help with the Function keys. Oh you also loose the Mac media keys as well.

EDIT: Forgot to add I got lucky and also received the HHKB Pro wrist rest with mine Which fits it perfectly but a close second that you can get from Elitekeyboards is the Filco tenkeyless wrist rest which is only about 2 - 2.5 inches longer than the HHKB Pro so works better than one of the full size rests.

[majestouch]

Great follow-up Andrew,

At first, I took the Filco out of the box only to do a rollover test (with disappointing results) and basic functionality tests.  For some reason it is VERY picky about USB ports though, I thought it was broken for a long time.

What kind of rollover were you expecting with a Non-NKRO board?

Also, I've never heard of the FILCO being picky about USB ports, it's a straight USB HID keyboard with low power draw, what setup did you encounter problems with?

Why is my Filco logo all scratched when I look at it in direct light?

I'm sorry about this, I've seen this on a couple boards and I've requested Diatec to work on improving it, though it is a plastic logo made to look metallic, so I don't know if I'm asking for too much.

It's like the Filco has character where the HHKB is soulless perfection.

I kind of feel the same way, but reflected upon the typer. Typing on a board with Topre switches demands that you sit up straight and have proper form, while typing on on brown cherries you can slouch and let some of your bad typing habits loose (and enjoy it).

[AndrewZorn]

rdjack,

what is alt-gr!? EDIT looked it up and that explains what i have seen sometimes. i am tempted to keep it since i have no numpad for ALT codes, but on the other hand, why?
anyway ill try lite extension... cant get the media keys to work in windows anyway, and if im going to have to do something manually, mind as well be hotkeys.

hopefully i can work out how to get my wrist-rest under my mouse hand.  otherwise i guess i have space on the left to rest my left hand on while... picking up a drink?


majestouch,

the rollover thing, i expected (read 'hoped') for like 4 keys in some places, maybe 2 or 3 if i looked, but even on the WASD cluster i can't get 4.  i know i should have ordered the NKRO if i was gaming, and i have the HHKB for that, the filco is just a sidekick right now.

usb... well, i started by plugging it into my hub.  lights flash, then never come back on, keyboard didn't work.  tried directly into computer (laptop), in 2 diff places... same thing.  restarted to linux... same thing!  take it next door to use someone else's comp, plug it into his hub... same thing.  directly into his computer... works!  at least it's not the keyboard.  so i come back to mine and try the only thing i haven't tried yet, the BACK of the hub.  this works.  but directly in does not.  it makes no sense.  i had the opposite problem with my mouse in linux.

i thought the logo was metal?  oh well.  but still, at least i know it wasn't just me.  no need for an apology, hate to admit now that i actually never ended up placing an order from Elite because of my ebay finds... but i already know through here and my email nagging that it IS the one place to go as far as actual stores are concerned.

the lazy typing is probably very true.  when i try to sit up straight and type anyhow it feels odd, i am usually laid back with hands rested on the rest.


but yeah, the NKRO, i know i totally get what i deserve and all, i was just 'hoping' for more like 4 average.
havent used EITHER for games yet, and i dont think NKRO matters for typing...



EDIT also a quick follow up to the earlier discussion about the QIDO (qwerty in, dvorak out device) that we were talking about earlier, just got an email back!

Dear Andrew

Sorry for the delayed reply and thanks for your interest in our QIDO device.

There have been several requests for supporting Colemak. I have passed the feedback to our engineers.
They are currently looking at adding support for programmer's Dvorak (which is proving difficult), but I'll ask them to look into the Colemak layout.

I have mentioned that there is interest in a fully customisable version and also the request for internal storage.

Please let me know if you have any questions or comments.

--
Kind Regards,
Theo Kerdemelidis
Marketing Director, KeyGhost Ltd