Project "Board Chow"

[ch_123]

Did a similar thing when I was rewiring my Model F and put the connector on the wrong pins. Worked fine when I put it on the right way.

Reference -



Oddly enough, they have five wires running to the keyboard controller even though only four are used. That's IBM's trademark over-engineering for you.

[clickclack]

#34 is a Model F XT, you'll need a signal converter to use it with a modern PC.
http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/categories.main/parentcat/11066
Bummer cuz that one is truly wonderful to type on! The board is probably dead for all I know though.

#35 is AT, so you just need a very cheap AT->PS/2 adapter...once you've found a working cable
http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/categories.main/parentcat/9934

And bummer again because that one isn't really all that much fun to type on.

Thanks for all that info though! That's great to know what they are and what they would need should I choose to resurect...heehee

[clickclack]

I'm pretty sure that's not an Alps switch. It could be made by KPT, ages ago lowpoly posted a review of a board with switches that looked similar to that one:

Show Image

Sure looks similar, minus the indications on the switch and the color, the color seems close though (even taking into consideration luminance, WB, and the color channel clipping older sensors tend to exhibit)

It is a wonderful switch though!

[clickclack]

That's a rather big gap between them, although the ripometer method isnt completely accurate with BS's - they tend to give different results everytime you try them.
It seemed pretty accurate to me though. Within reason of course. The differences seemed to be between keys on the same board. An example would be the "A" key verses the "K" key. They are different but consistently. When I just to the other board similar differences between keys were noted but were consistent as well.

The AT (the one with lock lights), as has been pointed out, is compatible with modern PCs. You could probably make a cable for it using the cable from another keyboard like an AT101W. I'm not entirely sure what the pin-out for the controller is though.

I would really like to put a cable on some of these, but since the colors of wires are different and I dont the know how to figure out what is what on the board (with the exception of the ground) its kinda a moot point

You really need to get a working cable for the F.
By the way, when referencing, use post number instead of page. The page a certain post is on depends on the number of posts per page, which can be changed quite easily in the preferences.
oh, thanks for that! Sorry :S I will do that in the future

-huha

[clickclack]

His XT one is missing it too.

As I said though, should be easy enough to make one from the cable of just about any other keyboard, as long as you can figure out the pinout on the Berg connector on the keyboard's controller board.

I have tried that, I even bought some cords but the colors dont match up and many keyboards have way more wires than others. I kid you not :S

Usually, the wires are colour coded to facilitate such tasks.
Even if they aren't, you can't really do wrong. GND should be fairly self-explanatory, as is VCC. Then you'll just need to figure out where each of the two data lines goes, but if you mess up, the keyboard will just not work, so you can swap the data lines and try again.
Many are color coded but they still dont seem to match up. Either they are different colors, more wires or slightly different colors coming from different places. I would realy like to experiment but I really am spooked about the idea of damaging anything. Also my computer is dying at the moment and messing with it seems a bit counter productive, and potentially very upsetting

-huha

[ch_123]

And bummer again because that one isn't really all that much fun to type on.

Sell it in the marketplace, there's a pretty good demand for those AT boards, although if there's a huge typing difference, there is a possibility that there is something wrong with it, or it's horribly worn out. When you say it's not fun to type on, is there any difference to the XT model's feel other than just resistance? If it's a case that the springs are worn out, you could do a spring swap. Much easier than wiring up an XT conversion adaptor.

I have tried that, I even bought some cords but the colors dont match up and many keyboards have way more wires than others. I kid you not :S

Check out the schematic for the AT keyboard on this page. From their description -

Red - Clock
Brown - Data
Black - Ground
White - 5V
Green - Unused



The pins for the data connector are the ones at the bottom of that picture. From what I can see in my picture of my somewhat messy wiring up top (starting from the bottom-most, and going up) -

[1]

• [5]
• >>>[2] [3] [4]
• >>>

Where -
1. White
2. Brown
3. Black
4. Red
5. Green
x. The pin that isn't there (for keying of the connector)
#. Unused pins

Here's the corresponding pinout for the plug -

[timw4mail]

Sell it in the marketplace, there's a pretty good demand for those AT boards, although if there's a huge typing difference, there is a possibility that there is something wrong with it, or it's horribly worn out. When you say it's not fun to type on, is there any difference to the XT model's feel other than just resistance?

I definitely find my Model F much more enjoyable to type on than my Model M. Can't say for the XT models though.

[ch_123]

The XTs are meant to be pretty much the same, but of a sturdier standard of construction, the actual keyswitch is identical across all models of Model F and Model C.

[timw4mail]

The XTs are meant to be pretty much the same, but of a sturdier standard of construction, the actual keyswitch is identical across all models of Model F and Model C.

A sturdier, yet more helter-skelter  construction, apparently.

[ch_123]

And with one of the most ridiculous layouts ever put on a mass-produced keyboard...

[clickclack]

Sell it in the marketplace, there's a pretty good demand for those AT boards, although if there's a huge typing difference, there is a possibility that there is something wrong with it, or it's horribly worn out. When you say it's not fun to type on, is there any difference to the XT model's feel other than just resistance? If it's a case that the springs are worn out, you could do a spring swap. Much easier than wiring up an XT conversion adaptor.

I still need it for my project, but I have thought about selling/giving certain things to people (it's something I will have to consider further).

When I opened both of them up, they were a bit different and the key housings were constructed differently as well. Maybe I will post some pics later. The XT (the one with the crap layout) has just the most beautiful typing sensation, slightly softer and very clicky. The AT one was in great shape too but the key presses were much stiffer, even more stiff than all four of my model M's. A spring swap wouldn't be a bad Idea, I could do a few to see if it is indeed the spring or not (if I even get them to work...heehee).

A big thanks to ya for giving me all that info (pics and diagrams) and as soon as my head stops hurting from looking at it, maybe I could do something with it.

[clickclack]

I definitely find my Model F much more enjoyable to type on than my Model M. Can't say for the XT models though.

It is rather nice (fine I admit it...heehe =P) but it was about 5-10g stiffer than my M and 10-20g stiffer than the other model F (XT). And I think the XT version doesnt use as many stabalizers for the slightly bigger keys and those feel great as well (if I am wrong dont kill me I am going off of my weak memory)

The XTs are meant to be pretty much the same, but of a sturdier standard of construction, the actual keyswitch is identical across all models of Model F and Model C.

The case is nicer I think on the XT and feels a tiny bit more robust, but considerably more simple in construction.(I like it) The AT case is more refined.

The springs are the same size it seems and the same diameter (although I did not use my calipers or micrometer) the bigger difference that I have noticed is that each key housing on the XT is seperate as opposed to the single plastic plate key housing of the AT. And the hammer (plastic foot?) fits the springs slighly different. The AT the spring can be lightly pulled of easily with your fingers without damage. The XT spring needs to be torn off within an inch of your life! (or just use and exacto blade and pop em off without damage)
maybe that is enough to contribute to the difference outside spring tension (higher/lower rating or just worn)

WORD TO THE WISE-
if your girlfriend says toss me that keyboard, dont throw her the model F!!!
I am such an A$$h0l3  I so wasn't thinking FTL

[ch_123]

That is very odd. Both AT and XT should have seperate housings and easily removable spring/hammers. See both -

Here.

and

Here.

And there's definitely something up with the springs on your AT model, you're the only person around here who has one that is noticably different to an XT model AND is stiffer than the Model M.

[clickclack]

That is very odd. Both AT and XT should have seperate housings and easily removable spring/hammers. See both -
Here.
and
Here.
And there's definitely something up with the springs on your AT model, you're the only person around here who has one that is noticably different to an XT model AND is stiffer than the Model M.

Odd indeed, I will have to check again later to see if those were really the differences and if there are anymore (or at all). Thanks for the links, that should help with comparisons when I crack em back open

Space Invaders!!!! AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!

heeeheee, I love this

[erricrice]

Odd indeed, I will have to check again later to see if those were really the differences and if there are anymore (or at all). Thanks for the links, that should help with comparisons when I crack em back open

Space Invaders!!!! AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!

Show Image

heeeheee, I love this :)

Lollll that's awesome!

I love this thread BTW!  So interesting, you have such a great opportunity to be able to tear apart all these various and sundry keyboards!

[clickclack]

Lollll that's awesome!

I love this thread BTW!  So interesting, you have such a great opportunity to be able to tear apart all these various and sundry keyboards!

Thanks
I must admit, it can get really fun... In that "X-mas present that was never wrapped and is dirty" sort of way =P
I really like the subtle to great differences in each board, and I really like typing on them (even if they dont work)

So just for the fun of it, here is a pic of me holding a black garden/trash bag filled with keys!
Care to guess how many?
Hmmmm.....
"Maybe" the person with the closest guess will win something, or maybe they will just feel cool and be admired by their fellow geekhacks!
only one way to find out....Let the guessing begin!

[rdjack21]

The way that bag is sagging it has to be really loaded. So for my first guess 5k-6k

[rdjack21]

Oh man he wasted all those perfectly good keys.

[clickclack]

The way that bag is sagging it has to be really loaded. So for my first guess 5k-6k

Haahaaaahaa =P
you need to pick a number, that's a 1,000 number span! XD

I am 6' 1" btw, just so people can get a better sense of scale
haahaa

[clickclack]

So far we have-

ripster - 25,250

[MsKeyboard]

My pick: 1001 Bob!



Tell us what we've Won!

[MsKeyboard]

Something about that bulge just don't look right.

[clickclack]

My pick: 1001 Bob!
Tell us what we've Won!

Haahaa, nice photo, i can hear the music now...[

Uh oh.   MsKeyboard knows more than I do what a garbage bag full of keys contains.  I think I voted way.... too high.

heehee, we shall see...

so far we have-
ripster- 25,250
MsKeyboard- 1,001

[quadibloc]

As it happens, I have a small pile of keys on my desk, from preparations to clean a keyboard I recently bought.  This has helped me make an estimate; I'm going to say 19,650 keys.

[InSanCen]

My vote... 9500 itty bitty caps in that bag.

[rdjack21]

I prefer these kinds of bulges myself:


But lets see I will say 4048 keys in that bag.

[quadibloc]

And why is this dude named after a dead programming language?

He just has the same initials by coincidence; Alan Pineda Lindo is a founding member of the Black Eyed Peas, and his benefit supports the Pearl S. Buck foundation and the Angeles University Foundation and other charities active in Asia.

And, of course, "A Programming Language" is not dead (although I must admit it comes close).

[Hak Foo]

2744.

[clickclack]

Bulges? Bulges...? We don't need no stinkin BULGES! =P

As it happens, I have a small pile of keys on my desk, from preparations to clean a keyboard I recently bought.  This has helped me make an estimate; I'm going to say 19,650 keys.

oh, so someone thinks they have some insider info...heehee (maybe that helps...or myabe not)

so far we have-
ripster- 25,250
MsKeyboard- 1,001
InSanCen- 9,500
rdjack21- 4,048
Hak Foo- 2,744

lets keep em coming!

[lowpoly]

10400

[xyzzy]

3456,7

[clickclack]

Hoax. Dirty laundry.

haahaa, maybe but how many articles of clothing? =P

and we have so far-

ripster- 25,250
MsKeyboard- 1,001
InSanCen- 9,500 itty bitty caps
rdjack21- 4,048
Hak Foo- 2,744
lowpoly- 10,400
webwit- dirty laundry =P
xyzzy- ? did you mean perhaps 34,567 ? heehee not that I didn't like 3456,7!

[xyzzy]

xyzzy- ? did you mean perhaps 34,567 ? heehee not that I didn't like 3456,7!

I meant 3456,7 (*). I'm pretty sure there's a broken key.

(*) maybe it's 3456.7 in the US? In Europe we use the , as decimal separator.

[timw4mail]

I meant 3456,7 (*). I'm pretty sure there's a broken key.

(*) maybe it's 3456.7 in the US? In Europe we use the , as decimal separator.

A period is the true decimal separator

[itlnstln]

Something about that bulge just don't look right.

This doesn't look right.  Poor Fergie...

[clickclack]

I meant 3456,7 (*). I'm pretty sure there's a broken key.
Funny thing... At that point I had not broken one yet, however my gf ended up helping me that night and YUP! And I would say that ".7" is a good estimation of what was left of it. And it was the only one broken!

(*) maybe it's 3456.7 in the US? In Europe we use the , as decimal separator.

no worries, I wasn't expecting anyone to pick (and rightly so) a partial key =P

So I will edit the list-
ripster- 25,250
MsKeyboard- 1,001
InSanCen- 9,500 itty bitty caps
rdjack21- 4,048
Hak Foo- 2,744
lowpoly- 10,400
webwit- dirty laundry =P
xyzzy-  3,456.7 well the .7 is right at least =P

keep em coming people
here is the reference pic again,
how many keys are in that bag?-

[erricrice]

I'm gonna have to go a little low and say 2,100.

[huha]

I love nice numbers, so I'd say 8192.

When will you give us the solution, by the way?

-huha

[rdjack21]

I love nice numbers, so I'd say 8192.

When will you give us the solution, by the way?

-huha

Why would he want to do that. He is having too much fun stringing us all along.

[timw4mail]

I'm going to say that you're stringing us along, as there aren't any keycaps.

[erricrice]

I'm going to say that you're stringing us along, as there aren't any keycaps.

I think webwit's is the most probable

Hoax. Dirty laundry.

[clickclack]

Hi guys! Sorry if my posts get a bit more spread out, I am trying to get another computer set up atm. This one is toast!

I'm gonna have to go a little low and say 2,100.

wait a minute...if you are going a bit low, then MsKeyboard is screwed! haahaa.

I love nice numbers, so I'd say 8192.
yeah, thats a cute number, I have no idea as to why it would be "nice" though.  

When will you give us the solution, by the way?-huha

CRAP! I thought I posted that! OOPS!
OCTOBER 1st is the deadline, and yes there is a prize officially now

Why would he want to do that. He is having too much fun stringing us all along.

He does make a good point =P

I think webwit's is the most probable

if thats the case though, then the prize would be a dirty sock! hahaaa

so this is what we have so far-

ripster- 25,250
MsKeyboard- 1,001
InSanCen- 9,500 itty bitty caps
rdjack21- 4,048
Hak Foo- 2,744
lowpoly- 10,400
webwit- dirty laundry =P
xyzzy- 3,456.7 well the .7 is right at least =P
erricrice- 2,100
huha- 8,192  "nice" (we shall see)

keep em coming people, there is a funny cute prize to be had

[clickclack]

I got some really interesting boards recently. I will post pics when my computer is either acting up less or I have a new one.

One was a AEII with a different type of ALPS?
So far I have seen 3 different types of ALPS switches in my AEII's but I have heard of yet one more.
white, off white, cream(i dont think I have any of those), and a different white ALPS type stem.

I also just got a keyboard that looks almost identical to an AEII, but is a tad thicker and has insanely clicky and tactile white ALPS. It is damn nice to type on too!

So this all just means that the number in my sig grew again

[rdjack21]

Man you get to have all the fun.... Why not send us a few and we will help taking them apart. I promise I will send them back...

[lowpoly]

So this all just means that the number in my sig grew again

Do you need a certain number of 'boards?

[erricrice]

He should get to 1000.

Like my favorite football player ever (even though I grew up seeing Cruyff play).

O Rei do Teclado!

He has to get

OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lol

[skriefal]

I'll guess 8585.

[clickclack]

Man you get to have all the fun.... Why not send us a few and we will help taking them apart. I promise I will send them back...

hmmm....

Do you need a certain number of 'boards?

yes and no. (and I am not being a jerk) I need to be close to a certain number for one project, and for the other projects the numbers have yet to be determined

He should get to 1000.

eeek! Where would I put them? =S Seriously though, I am having quite the hard time finding places to put the ones I have now! =S
[/QUOTE]

He has to get
OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lol

uhhhh...geez imagine having almost a million keys! I would rather not =P

I'll guess 8585.

you got it, although it looks like you are trying to steal away some of
InSanCen and huha's thunder! haahaa That's mighty bold I say, MIGHTY BOLD! =P


So this is where we are at thus far-


ripster- 25,250
MsKeyboard- 1,001
InSanCen- 9,500 itty bitty caps
rdjack21- 4,048
Hak Foo- 2,744
lowpoly- 10,400
webwit- dirty laundry =P
xyzzy- 3,456.7 well the .7 is right at least =P
erricrice- 2,100
huha- 8,192 "nice" (we shall see)
skriefal- 8,585 and a low blow to huha and InSanCen! haahaa


So the competition heats up a bit.... hmmm?
Keep em coming people

[kyamei]

I'll throw in a guess.  6250

[TheSoulhunter]

2763!