First mech KB? Which Switch? MX red or MX black

[Bimmer]

Hey guys,
My first experience with a mechanical keyboard was about a few days ago.
I was over at a friend's place and he let me try out two of his boards. One was a MX blue and one was MX red.
After deliberating, I stumbled on here and lurked a bit while researching mechanical keyboards.
It's a very interesting and new experience so here I am!
I'm not really a fan of the clicky-ness of MX blue. I can't really describe it but I actually feel like I type slower on it and it's quite loud (which isn't the main consideration for me) but it's something that does sorta factor in.
I think I'm set on picking between MX red or MX black. I'm a little worried, is MX black going to be heavy?
What would you recommend for a first timer?
This will be used for 70% typing and 30% gaming --- ok maybe more than 30

[fknraiden]

i have a couple friends who both have reds and they like them. i like blacks more but reds are very very light.

[animal]

Blues are said to be best for typing. Reds and blacks are said to be more for gaming. And there are the browns that is something in between. Reds and blacks are linear, while brown and blue are tactile. You are best off to try on all types and read about the differences on the switches.

[nubbinator]

Blues are said to be best for typing. Reds and blacks are said to be more for gaming. And there are the browns that is something in between. Reds and blacks are linear, while brown and blue are tactile. You are best off to try on all types and read about the differences on the switches.

Everyone has different tastes.  Whenever people say one switch is better than another for something, they're generally full of ****.  The only one that holds constant is that BS and clicky switches tend not to be as good for gaming due to hysteresis.

[animal]

Everyone has different tastes.  Whenever people say one switch is better than another for something, they're generally full of ****.  The only one that holds constant is that BS and clicky switches tend not to be as good for gaming due to hysteresis.

That is why I said he is best off to try them all to decide which one suits him best. And tbh I really can't understand how a linear switch can be better than a tactile one. You can never tell when a linear switch registers the key press.

[clacktalk]

i'd suggest black over red because red is really light and it didn't work out for me.

You really should try out the switches though. Some people enjoy light switches, and I just happen to be in the group of people that don't. Like nubbs says, it's a preference that suits you best. I really enjoy ergo clears and blacks for gaming but hate reds for gaming and Topre specifically for FPS. I've never gamed on a board with blues, but I've also heard clicky MX and BS are terrible for gaming, especially if you need to spam keys.

people do play with clicky keys though, and they seem to do fine with them. so it's really, ultimately up to you.

[Novus]

Blues are said to be best for typing. Reds and blacks are said to be more for gaming. And there are the browns that is something in between. Reds and blacks are linear, while brown and blue are tactile. You are best off to try on all types and read about the differences on the switches.

Everyone has different tastes.  Whenever people say one switch is better than another for something, they're generally full of ****.  The only one that holds constant is that BS and clicky switches tend not to be as good for gaming due to hysteresis.

I think that's the first time I've heard Hysteresis on geekhack.
Also you should probably clarify that BS stands for buckling spring not bull****.

[rowdy]

Welcome to Geekhack!

This is going to be a thread full of personal recommendations.  No-one can tell you which switch will suit you best - you will need to try a few different switches to really find one you like.

I find reds way too light.  I prefer blacks or greens, or even buckling spring.

MX red might be the least mechanical feeling mechanical switches for someone migrating from a rubber dome keyboard - they are linear and offer less resistance.

[tetraslash]

I tried the Reds and Blacks not too long ago in my local computer store. I eventually settled on Browns, though.

I liked the Blacks a lot because they felt great for people who bottom-out like I do, but the Browns were more responsive and quicker.

The biggest peeve I had with the Reds was that they kept making me fully aware I was bottoming out my keyboard whenever I hit the base of the switch/keyboard. (I had to bottom out since I couldn't actually feel where the actuation point was.)

Now, I'm not saying that the Browns are better (since I don't like the artificial bumps that feel like I'm scratching the board), but they were lighter than Blacks and not as "airy" as Reds. I had to settle on them as a midway point.

I can't use Blues namely due to hysteresis for video gaming (total no go for quick double-tapping while bottoming-out), but if not because of that sole reason, I would've totally picked them for their clickiness.

You're going to need to test the different switches in-store like I did, thoroughly. It's the only way to know for sure.

[Ludovician]

It's really completely subjective. Go for whatever you feel most comfortable with.

Did you like the tactility of blues but didn't like the clicking? Clears might work out for you. If you felt that the tactility didn't make any difference to you, or was unpleasant, then a linear switch is probably the way to go. If it's down to red and black, it may help to test if resting your hands on reds causes accidental key presses. Again, this is a purely subjective matter. Personally I prefer stiffer switches that I won't accidentally press while resting. Currently using 55g Topre.

As others have said, it's a good idea to try and find somewhere you can try before you buy.

[suicidal_orange]

I think it depends quite a lot on who you are physically - blacks aren't heavy switches (clear are slightly heavier and widely used) so instead think of red as being extra light. 

I'd say go for reds if:

• You have small hands/fingers (it's easy to catch the key next door, which offers no resistance to my average adult male finger so records the press)
• You like the solid feel of plastic on plastic when you bottom out
• You're going to learn to type on it without bottoming out (not sure it's possible!)

If none of the above out of the two I'd recommend blacks.

Is your friend going on holiday or would he be willing to use the blue board (or your rubber dome? That would be a good friend )) for a couple of days so you can give the reds a proper test?  I don't dislike reds but when I tried to type something long they got annoying, that's what you need to check for yourself and it isn't easy in a shop.

[Novus]

I don't get the small finger one tbh the dimensions of the keyboard aren't changing.

[KHAANNN]

Out of green/clear/red/black/brown/blue, black's are the harder to press individually, in my opinion, even though they are technically lighter then green/clear's etc, they are pretty hard to push down (I say individually, because testing the switches on an actual keyboard is pretty different)

Red's are beautiful switches, yet if you rest your fingers on the keyboard, you will press and activate them easily, without noticing, they even activate when you look at the keys the wrong way

My .02

Get black's if you type with 2 fingers, get red's if you are a master typist and type with 10 fingers without even resting your fingers on the keyboard

If you type with 2 fingers mainly, harder switches are very rewarding and fun

[suicidal_orange]

If 10% of your press lands on the wrong keycap and that key is very sensitive (red) it will press more often than a not so sensitive one (black)  Small fingers are less likely to hit the wrong key in the first place, while light fingers means they have less muscle strength and less weight so will be pressing softer and 10% of that pressure is less likely to be enough to press even a sensitive key. 

That was my thinking anyway, and it works for my hands - I never had the problem with my old rubber dome which also had standard sized keys but do with reds.  It's annoying

[Dihedral]

Grab yourself a switch tester like the one from WASD's website. it will help you decide which switch you like best.

[Oobly]

Have you tried any of the "tactile" switches (not clicky like Blues but with a tactile bump to show when the switch actuates)? Browns and Clears are the two tactile switch types in the Cherry MX range. They don't have the hysteresis of Blues and Greens, but still some tactility to let you know that the switch has actuated.

Browns are light like Blues and Reds, but have quite a small tactile bump. Clears have a much larger tactile bump and a different spring profile to all other Cherry MX switches. They start out light, similar to Browns, but resistance increases at a higher rate, so they're like Blacks after the tactile bump and stronger than Blacks at the bottom out point.

Clears are my favourite stock MX switch.

Between Reds and Blacks, I'd have a hard time choosing, but would probably go with Blacks (less accidental actuations and easier to learn not to bottom out so hard). To me, a spring somewhere in between the two (like a Korean 62g spring) is the perfect weight, for both linear and Clears.

[hwood34]

Grab yourself a switch tester like the one from WASD's website. it will help you decide which switch you like best.

+1

[IvanIvanovich]

I agree that persuading your friend to loan you the reds keyboard for a day or few days to get a better sense of how it is to use it would be best. Otherwise I suggest to pick up something super cheap off ebay or something with blacks which can often be found without too much trouble. Some of them are even decent enough to use for awhile. Where you are in the world will heavily change what is going to be the most available cheap models to try out though. By cheap I mean cheap too, like $20/€20 or less, and yes it is usually possible to find something that cheap if you know what you're looking for.

[Firebolt1914]

Blues are said to be best for typing. Reds and blacks are said to be more for gaming. And there are the browns that is something in between. Reds and blacks are linear, while brown and blue are tactile. You are best off to try on all types and read about the differences on the switches.

Everyone has different tastes.  Whenever people say one switch is better than another for something, they're generally full of ****.  The only one that holds constant is that BS and clicky switches tend not to be as good for gaming due to hysteresis.

I think that's the first time I've heard Hysteresis on geekhack.
Also you should probably clarify that BS stands for buckling spring not bull****.

I feel like hysteresis has been mentioned quite a bit on geekhack.

But yes, the most important thing is that people have different opinions and there is no real objective difference between switches that make one better than the other except for a few different things.

[aref]

I use my keyboards for typing only. I've had both Red and Black switches. Blacks are good for typing, but I found that after a couple hours I feel the strain in my hands and have to go to a lighter switch. I have a couple of MX Red keyboards that I like for typing. The switch is easy to actuate and may take a few days to become accustomed to using. After getting the feel of Reds, I have no problem going back-and-forth between Reds and heavier key switches in the same day--doing this is simply a matter of choosing to use my other keyboards. One of the pluses about an MX Red keyboard is that you can type for hours with no strain on hands and digits. For me, I like the feel of Cherry's linear switches and prefer them to their tactile switches for typing.

With this said, key switches are a matter of personal preference. What works for one may not work for another. The above is just one guy's collective experience and opinion.

[Merranza]

Every time I read that reds actuate just by resting your fingers on them is beyond my comprehension. You guys must be leaning forward and right on top of your keyboard or either have lead fingers because I can easily rest both of my hands on my reds and never will I actuate a key by accident (ie: without putting intentional pressure on the key to really actuate it). I've even read somewhere that reds can actuate if your shirt lays on top of the keys... Hey, don't forget to turn off that ceiling fan of yours because your keyboard might actually type a complete essay without you even knowing it!

There are pros and cons for every switch and no switch is better (in terms of absolute) than any other. It's really all about personal preference/comfort. I consider reds vastly superior to browns for typing and gaming and I fully understand others arguments when they say browns are better. Same goes for blacks, blues, clears, etc.

Really, try them by yourself (ideally for a couple days at your place like stated before). It's the best way to know if you like a switch or not.

[falkentyne]

After personally using reds, greens, blacks (on ducky 69 only), blues, etc, I'd recommend you start with blues if you want a light switch or GREENS if you want a heavier switch.
If you play RTS games or games which require very high APM, then browns (reds can be good here, too).
But if you want a GOOD feeling keyboard, try greens.  They feel like a key should feel like

MX milk whites are "albino greens".  Greys are HEAVY (greens are already pushing it...tactile greys are like the masochism of MX switches...only someone who likes Klingon pain torture would use those for typing).

Still not sure what the actual difference between milk whites (original whites are now called MX clears) and MX greens are.  Seems like milk white are a slightly lighter green, but they seem to have a more clean click than the greens.

[Firebolt1914]

Modern MX Whites are 80cN to actuate. MX Greens are also 80cN to actuate.

[minh278]

I personally feel linear switches suck for typing. But blacks suck less than reds for me due to the higher actuation required makes it so my typing is steady.

blues and browns are a good way to go and are just as good for gaming.

[Eugene]

I feel like Cherry MX Reds are the best introductory flavor for the uninitiated, especially if they spend any time at all gaming. Blacks can fatigue some typists/gamers, especially FPS players who hold down their WASD keys a lot.

I used to think Cherry MX Browns would be a good compromise between light actuation and tactility, but they they just aren't tactile enough to matter.

Since you state that >30% of your time will be spent gaming, do the extra features on some of the gaming oriented keyboards interest you at all? Do you need macro keys, media keys, fancy individual backlighting, etc? If the answer to any of those is yes, you may as well choose one of the many gaming specific Cherry MX Red keyboards out there. I know a lot of people hate on the Corsair K-Series keyboards, but I use a K95 RGB for gaming since need the extra macro keys.

Even if you don't go for a full gaming keyboard, a Cherry MX Red CM Storm Quickfire XT or Quickfire Rapid would probably be my first choice.

[Merranza]

I feel like Cherry MX Reds are the best introductory flavor for the uninitiated, especially if they spend any time at all gaming. Blacks can fatigue some typists/gamers, especially FPS players who hold down their WASD keys a lot.

I used to think Cherry MX Browns would be a good compromise between light actuation and tactility, but they they just aren't tactile enough to matter.

Since you state that >30% of your time will be spent gaming, do the extra features on some of the gaming oriented keyboards interest you at all? Do you need macro keys, media keys, fancy individual backlighting, etc? If the answer to any of those is yes, you may as well choose one of the many gaming specific Cherry MX Red keyboards out there. I know a lot of people hate on the Corsair K-Series keyboards, but I use a K95 RGB for gaming since need the extra macro keys.

Even if you don't go for a full gaming keyboard, a Cherry MX Red CM Storm Quickfire XT or Quickfire Rapid would probably be my first choice.

I feel like Cherry MX Browns are the best "introductory flavor" for the "uninitiated" like you say because the tactile feedback gives a confirmation the key has actuated (acts like a safety net) while you need to train and build muscle memory as well as accuracy on linear switches.

It's really all a matter of perception. I don't think there is such a thing as "levelling" toward more advanced switches in the "realm of the switches".

[saturnotaku]

I agree with the others who advocate borrowing one of your friends' keyboards if they will let you. Try it for a few days and see if it works for you.

My personal preferences lie at both extremes of switches. I like light MX (red, brown) and 45g Topre as well as MX green (80g). Call me crazy, but any boards I've tried that have been in the middle (MX black, blue, clear) just haven't felt right. Maybe that would change if I had modified switches, such as ergo clears, but I have neither the time, the patience, nor the skill to attempt such modifications.

[Bucake]

preference!

even for me (i have weak fingers), reds feel very light..
my vote goes to blacks