Razer Death Adder Refresh

[itlnstln]

Check it.

[mike2h]

nvery nice mouse when its working. went through 3(the first was doa) of them during warranty. then it failed again 2 mos out of warranty...
tarantula kb failed once during warranty & about 3 months out of warranty. which is ridiclulous for a kb that expensive. still have the lame $20 battlelight tho. at least it still works. lol.
heep my pls ps2 ms natural around for bios problems(got it when they first came out dont know how old it is), got a backlit eclipse(from when they first released) i use for my ps3, & of course the g15.
i have other kbs around on other peoples computers & I have never had a kb die on me until i laid out the most $$ i had ever spent on that pos tarantula(poor implementation to).
anyway, razer has definte qc issues.

[D-EJ915]

I gave up on my 3rd diamondback...not worth sending it back even if return shipping is free lol

[mike2h]

u really got to wonder razer is staying in business. especialy with excellent offerings from logitech & steelseries(i love my ikari laser).

[timw4mail]

I just dislike the fragile-looking cord that comes with their mice.

[mike2h]

think their products are 'fragile' in general.

[elbowglue]

Razer ships malware with drivers
Published: 23rd September 2009

Peripheral manufacturer Razer was left with egg on its face this week by the revelation that it had been unwittingly distributing malware with its driver updates.

The Trojan - troj.dropper.jiz, which downloads and installs a copy of worm.aspxor.ab - was spotted on Razer's product support website by anti-virus vendor Trend Micro - and reported by DownloadSquad - earlier this week.



http://www.bit-tech.net/news/bits/2009/09/23/razer-ships-malware-with-drivers/1

Thanks razer.

[timw4mail]

Good thing I don't use their drivers, then isn't it?

[itlnstln]

*.jiz... funny, immature maybe, but funny.
 
(Says the guy with Spotted **** for an avatar, but hey, it's my favorite dessert.)

[itlnstln]

I don't know.  I see it at the store, and I'm tempted to try it, but I really don't like currants much, and the thought of eating pig suet doesn't really sound appetizing to me.  That, and remembering the food I ate when I lived across the pond just isn't creating a recipe of win for me.

[PRISONER 24601]

Infared is the best IMO.

I just wish Razer made higher quality products with i dunno maybe a little bit more class

[hyperlinked]

I gave up on my 3rd diamondback...not worth sending it back even if return shipping is free lol

Mine is alive and well over four years later.

[ch_123]

I really don't see anything that Razer mice do that Steelseries or Logitech don't do just as well.

[timw4mail]

I really don't see anything that Razer mice do that Steelseries or Logitech don't do just as well.

Price, in some cases.

[ch_123]

I'd rather just pay extra for something that I know is going to serve me well.

[timw4mail]

I'd rather just pay extra for something that I know is going to serve me well.

For the price I got a smoother, higher resolution mouse that hasn't acted up on me yet. Logitech does make nice mice too, I just find the ones I'd buy too low DPI.

[ch_123]

How low is too low?

[timw4mail]

How low is too low?

Around 400 DPI. I'm probably needlessly extrapolating from my MX400.

[ch_123]

When I said Logitech, I was talking about stuff in the same price range as Razer mice... The MX518 does about 1,600 DPI and is pretty cheap relative to how good a mouse it is.

[timw4mail]

When I said Logitech, I was talking about stuff in the same price range as Razer mice... The MX518 does about 1,600 DPI and is pretty cheap relative to how good a mouse it is.

I'm talking about a Salmosa.

[ch_123]

Which is pretty much the same price as an MX518. At least where I shop it is.

[timw4mail]

Which is pretty much the same price as an MX518. At least where I shop it is.

I tend to get what's cheap, and what I can at the time, so perhaps I don't have the best idea of what I'm talking about here. I think I got the Salmosa on woot for $10.

[Shuki]

I tend to get what's cheap, and what I can at the time, so perhaps I don't have the best idea of what I'm talking about here.

Not always a bad option.

I've had quite a few mice and mostly cost does not equal performance.

Of the mice I own :

Logitech MX300, 500, 510, 510
Microsoft Intellimouse explorer 3.0
Microsoft Intellimouse optical
Microsoft Wheel Mouse optical
Steelseries Ikari Laser, Optical
Razer Diamondback (original), 3G
Razer Krait, Salmosa, Deathadder, Lachesis, Copperhead
Some A4tech mice I can't remember then name of

Funnily enough the mouse I am using at the moment is the cheapest one out of all of them which is the wheel mouse optical. Handles perfectly well in games, comfortable shape and only cost 7 pounds.

[itlnstln]

Not always a bad option.
 
I've had quite a few mice and mostly cost does not equal performance.

QFT.  My sweet spot seems to be right in the middle.  "Cheap" mice usually don't have the features I want, and "expensive" mice have both features I would never use and, usually, a sacrificing of ergonomics.  Most of the mice I have been happy with over the years have been manufacturers' (usually Logitech and MS) middle of the road offerings.

[Shuki]

Yeh that is pretty much the best route to go down. As long as a mouse is comfortable then it should be great for general use. For games then it perhaps has to have a decent sensor as people can use low sensitivities which can be ~50cm for 180 degrees in game, requiring fast movements.

Although I will be buying a Steelseries Xai which is quite a lot more expensive than most of these mice, and ironically has the same basic shape of the wheel mouse optical. However the small improvements + sidebuttons and a better sensor make this worth it in my eyes.

If you want great performance from a cheap mouse then you just can't beat the entry level microsoft mice (wheel mouse optical + intellimouse optical).

[exousia]

I've owned both Logitech and Razer and I can tell you it mostly comes down to preference ala ergonomics. Just like different people prefer different switch forces, the same applies for how people hold mice or how their hand molds to them.

Saying that optical is better than laser is lazy misinformation. Current gen laser sensors are just as good and superior than optical, especially at higher ips. This has been proven and researched on a few hardcore japanese sites that do experiments on them. The G9x being a shining example.

I would say also the higher dpi of the newer sensors is just an added bonus of being able to track on more variety of surfaces smoothly than previous gen mice and those are the primary gains. Of course there are subtle upgrades like better skates, better build quality, better cord quality, button feel, surface texture, etc.

[Shuki]

I'v
Saying that optical is better than laser is lazy misinformation. Current gen laser sensors are just as good and superior than optical, especially at higher ips.

I don't remember saying this ?

[exousia]

I don't remember saying this ?

I know, I was referring to Prisoner's post. Guess I should've quoted him.

[Shuki]

Well I'll see how true that is when I get my Xai delivered

[Langley]

The Salmosa was a better buy considering I had two MX518s that would not stop their electronic banshee howl of death. Every time I've bought logitech something has gone horribly wrong with it.

[timw4mail]

The Salmosa was a better buy considering I had two MX518s that would not stop their electronic banshee howl of death. Every time I've bought logitech something has gone horribly wrong with it.

Not to mention that I find the MX518's the most hideous and generic-looking mouse available.

[ch_123]

The MX518 is a generic looking mouse? You must live in a place with some pretty interesting hardware...

The 'moon crater' finish is a bit **** alright, but we're more function over form around here, right?

[exousia]

The MX518 is a generic looking mouse? You must live in a place with some pretty interesting hardware...

The 'moon crater' finish is a bit **** alright, but we're more function over form around here, right?

People generally tend care just as much over the shape of the mouse than just the performance. The same can't be quite said for a keyboard. And I'd think the reasons are plenty obvious.

[ch_123]

Have you ever used an MX518? It's is a perfectly usable and comfortable mouse.

And I would consider ergonomic design an aspect of function. But it's not too difficult to design a comfortable mouse for 90% of the population... Of course, manufacturers still screw it up.

[Shuki]

People generally tend care just as much over the shape of the mouse than just the performance. The same can't be quite said for a keyboard. And I'd think the reasons are plenty obvious.

I would say the layout of a keyboard would be pretty important to the user in the same way the shape of a mouse will be important.

The 'moon crater' finish is a bit **** alright, but we're more function over form around here, right?

That's why I got an Asus one


The logicool mx518 looks pretty "cool" as well

[microsoft windows]

Those mice may look pretty but I'm going to stick with my trusty ol' Microsoft Mouse for the time being.

[Shuki]

Using the wheel mouse optical at the moment myself

[lmnop]

here is my 2 cents.

the 3.5G Infared Laser Sensor is a Philips Twin-Eye renamed and is the same sensor in the Cooler Master Storm Sentinel Advance. it has the same jitter and z-axis tracking problems the 3G Infared Laser Sensor has which was also manufactured by Philips on top of that it can't track on all surface patterns not even their own Razer eXactMat or a half a dozen other popular brand name surfaces and the surfaces that can track are not tracking optimally. a lot of Razer Mamba users have had to tape down blank sheets of white paper or purchase a Razer Pro|Pad (discontinued) because the sensor seems to track more accurately on a white reflective surface.

generally speaking Razer build quality used to be poor but now it's just bad the feet and rubber coatings their new mice receive go pretty quick and there is isolated issues depending on the model for example the Razer Mamba battery cover can scrape against a surface so a Razer rep on the blueprint forum had to take pictures to demonstrate how to close it by depressing all 4 corners with your fingers. why couldn't they make a simple snap cover like on a remote control?

the firmware updates are not very good either the Razer Mamba v1.06 outperforms v1.08 but v1.08 contains bug fixes and improvements so you have to decide if you want them but take the performance hit or vice versa and since the Razer Lachesis uses an early incarnation of this sensor and is almost 3 years old and are still fixing it I can't imagine any sane gamer would use this sensor on the amateur or pro level.

if the conditions are met performance can match or exceed the Avago 9500 Laser Sensor found in the Logitech G500, G9x and SteelSeries Xai but at least those mice are not plagued with issues.

PS, Wheel Mouse Optical served me well

[ch_123]

How do you quantify 'performance' in this context? Tracking ability? DPI?

[lmnop]

the Japanese have been able to create a benchmark by measuring counts per second by metres by second by data saturation and clipping.

for example.



here is the Avago 308** optical sensor found in the Dharma Tactical Mouse, Logitech MX-518, Logitech MX-518 Rev 2, Razer Krait, Razer Diamondback and A4Tech X-718.

Note: the Avago 3080E optical sensor found in the Logitech MX-518 Rev 2 suffers from data saturation at any resolution. the Setpoint drivers act as a catalyst and causes a significant performance loss. it is recommended not to install the Setpoint drivers and to set the resolution under 1800 CPI which puts this mouse in the low sensitivity category.



here is the Avago 3668 optical sensor found in the Razer DeathAdder, Razer Boomslang CE 2007, Razer Salmosa and Razer Diamondback 3G.

it is not the fastest optical sensor that belongs to the Bluetrack 4000 found in the Microsoft Sidewinder X8 however it is the fastest and most accurate optical sensor on the market.



here is the Avago 6010 laser sensor found in the Logitech G5, OCZ Equalizer, Razer Copperhead, Microsoft Sidewinder, A4Tech X-750F, Microsoft Habu and Dharma Tactical Mouse.  

it tracks very well on multiple surfaces but the Avago 3668 is much faster.

Note: the OCZ Equalizer is stuck with a 125Hz polling rate. if you try to overclock the usb port and it says 1000Hz it will still be stuck at 125Hz.

Note: the Razer Copperhead and Microsoft Habu suffer from skipping at low resolution on hard surfaces.



here is the OS MLT 04 optical sensor found in the Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer and Microsoft Intellimouse.

this is one of the reasons it's so popular amongst low sensitivity gamers because it tracks so accurately at low resolution on multiple surfaces. it sets the bar for build quality and is inexpensive.



here is the early incarnation of the Philips Twin Eye laser sensor found in the Razer Lachesis, Razer Orochi and there is another variant found in the Silverstone Raven mouse.

Note: the sensor suffers from jitter, z-axis tracking and has a auto-resolution stepping feature that causes it to take a performance loss.



here is a bonus graph on the SteelSeries Experience I-2 which is a frosted translucent glass surface.

[timw4mail]

Considering the only Razor mouse I have is a Salmosa, I'd say have I have pretty decent one, judging by those graphs.

[lmnop]

you are right Tim.

on Nov 8th Woot.com had the Razer Salmosa for $13.27 USD a 24 hour sale only. what a deal. the only problem with the Razer Salmosa is the microswitches they are low quality and tend to squeak or when you depress once they double click however some people managed to fix this by applying some WD 40 to the microswitches.

[ch_123]

Is the Experience I2 the one used in the Ikari?

[timw4mail]

you are right Tim.

on Nov 8th Woot.com had the Razer Salmosa for $13.27 USD a 24 hour sale only. what a deal. the only problem with the Razer Salmosa is the microswitches they are low quality and tend to squeak or when you depress once they double click however some people managed to fix this by applying some WD 40 to the microswitches.

I got mine from Woot.

[lmnop]

no the SteelSeries Experience I-1 and I-2 is a frosted translucent glass surface (glass mousepad). they were released in 2001 under the name Icemat and Icemat SE designed for ball and optical mice.

the sensor used in the SteelSeries Ikari Laser and Mionix Saiph 3200 is called the Cypress Ovations+ CYONS1001x

I don't have a graph but it will outperform the Avago 6010 but is surface dependant.

another sensor I left out because I didn't have a graph for was the Avago 6090 Laser Sensor found in the Logitech G9, Gigabyte GM-M8000 and Roccat Kone. the Avago 6010 will outperform it but is also surface dependant.

there is a feature on the Roccat Kone called the TCU (Tracking Control Unit) which is an additional sensor above the Avago 6090 lens and when activated it auto-calibrates to track on surfaces the Avago 6090 isn't normally proficient at like wood, cd cover, glass, etc. pretty intuitive.

[itlnstln]

I know the discussion has moved on a bit, but I really liked the MX518, it was one of my favorite mice.  I switched to the MX1000 for some rechargable, wireless love, and then I went to MS mice, because I like the smooth scroll wheel for the stuff I do at work.  The Logitech click wheel is still superior for gaming, though.

[Shuki]

What drives you nuts? The noise?

[Shuki]

Ah I see. All the mice I have used I played with the lowest resolution possible on the mouse. If a mouse comes out and it doesn't have 400/450dpi I wouldn't buy it which is ironic seeing as they try to market high dpi as a selling point.

Most of the games I play it takes me around 45cm to do a 360 degree turn and in older games it causes problems if you use a dpi higher than 400 so it can be an advantage to play with a lower dpi.

[timw4mail]

The irony of it all.   You're SUPPOSED to use black cherries.  You're SUPPOSED to pump up the mouse sensitivity.   You're SUPPOSED to have the highest DPI ever known to mankind.

I use any kind of switch, use the CH DT225, and have a blue rock as the ball.

But I do use it at the double-speed setting.

Most of the games I play it takes me around 45cm to do a 360 degree turn and in older games it causes problems if you use a dpi higher than 400 so it can be an advantage to play with a lower dpi.

It's easier to be more precise in your position with a less sensitive mouse. I find a low/mid range sensitivity works well for me, quick enough to turn around in a moment, slow enough to aim well.

[Arc'xer]

The irony of it all.   You're SUPPOSED to use black cherries.  You're SUPPOSED to pump up the mouse sensitivity.   You're SUPPOSED to have the highest DPI ever known to mankind.

Actually it is all preference but it really depends on the game. Plus there's different schools, Low DPI+Low sens; High DPI+lower sens etc.etc. Although it is true that a lower sensitivity will increase your accuracy anyone can learn to handle all the speed if they don't like low sensitivity.

Most of the time higher DPI is mentioned more so and compensating by lowering your sensitivity. But a lot of people prefer 400/450 DPI with low sensitivity. Biggest reasoning is high-sensitivity is more susceptible to twitching or if your surprised it doesn't fire you off to some direction because you flinched plus it's more accurate even though a person can learn to be accurate with high sensitivity.

That's why large mouse pads are sold like my Puretrak Talent, which is 19" x 14" or 48cm x 35cm. So with my arm I can sweep my view and when I need to aim, use my wrist. Some people use their arm to aim and sweep and some use their wrist while maintain their arm sweep to move their view.

0-15 cm for a 360 degree rotation in game = High sens
15-20 cm for a 360 degree rotation in game = Medium-high sens
20-25 cm for a 360 degree rotation in game = Medium sens
25-35 cm for a 360 degree rotation in game = Low sens
35+ cm for a 360 degree rotation in game = Very-low sens
75-100 for a 360 degree rotation in game = Ultra-low sens

So if you use 100 cm for an entire 360º, it takes you half of 100cm or 50cm to turn 180º and it's half 90º is 25cm. This is why most low-sensitivity use large cloth pads. Although it's personal preference and not all low-sens use cloth some use hybrid(coated cloth) or plastic or glass or aluminum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlqJlUqz-hA&fmt=18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hBJjRguDsI&fmt=18

Really it's all personal preference. There is some truth in that low sensitivity can't turn as fast as higher sensitivity. That's why large pads are used and why gaming mice require so much tracking speed.

Although I will say I do often wonder if higher DPI is better. Some people feel it's a marketing gimmick. What DPI is is basically speed/per inch, so if I have a 3000 DPI mouse every inch of the mouse translates to 3000 pixels. But some people are completely baffled by high DPI and wonder why people use it, for various reasons some are silly, some make sense.

Thing is I wonder in particular games with directinput like call of duty series or quake or most modern games(A lot of low DPI/Low sens comes from counter-strike because it does not use directinput it uses an X/Y overlay over your desktop so it recenter itself every time you move to the edge of your screen, that's why CS has so much problems with negative acceleration and other issues).

Basically any game that allows for a sensitivity of 0.01 or lower. If having say 5700 DPI and 0.06 sensitivity let's assume with that much DPI it equals say 400 DPI and 1.5 sensitivity. What is more accurate and better because with 5700/0.06 your two magnitudes lower sensitivity. Which basically means the game's control of your sensitivity is 99.2% gone. You have so much DPI that the game is mostly aimed by the mouse and not dependent on the value of the game.