How bad really is ABS?

[trenzafeeds]

I'm currently looking for some stylish keycaps for my Pok3r, and I had my mind set on PBT doubleshots, but it just seems like a lot of the limited-run well-designed keysets seem to come only in ABS, for instance Toxic, Hack'd by Geeks, Retro, etc. I really want a keyset like those ones, but I also just love the feel of my PBT stock Pok3r caps. I'm not super concerned about the wearing down of the legends, but how different will the feel be?

[nubbinator]

Thick ABS is great,  I love my thick ABS and PBT.  In some ways I think thick ABS is better since I like the feel as it wears. 

Thin ABS sucks, especially the WASD keyboards caps.  Then again, I think all thin caps don't feel that great.

[trenzafeeds]

Thick ABS is great,  I love my thick ABS and PBT.  In some ways I think thick ABS is better since I like the feel as it wears. 

Thin ABS sucks, especially the WASD keyboards caps.  Then again, I think all thin caps don't feel that great.

Do the limited run sets like Toxic tend to be thick?

[hwood34]

Thick ABS is great,  I love my thick ABS and PBT.  In some ways I think thick ABS is better since I like the feel as it wears. 

Thin ABS sucks, especially the WASD keyboards caps.  Then again, I think all thin caps don't feel that great.

Do the limited run sets like Toxic tend to be thick?

That's an SP set, so no. Cherry and GMK are thick ABS sets

[user 18]

It's entirely a personal thing. Some people don't mind ABS, other people won't use it. Some people even prefer ABS to PBT. The only way to know for yourself is to get a set and see if you like it.

Personally, I prefer my thick PBT caps from gateron over my thin ABS caps, but that's mostly due to thickness -- I've used thin PBT caps from Cherry and Keycool, and they weren't nearly as nice, IMO. I also really like the feel of the gateron PBT, but that's more due to the texture of the molds than the plastic itself. I don't know how any of the above compare to pok3r caps, never having used them.

If I sit down to do an extended amount of typing, I'll use my board with blues and the gateron PBTs, because I find that to be the best experience for me for long periods of typing. However, I also use my board with clears and toxic (abs) as a daily driver, and I love it too. Other people have very different experiences though, and you won't know what you prefer until you've had a chance to try a bunch of different types of keys.

[CPTBadAss]

Thick ABS is great,  I love my thick ABS and PBT.  In some ways I think thick ABS is better since I like the feel as it wears. 

Thin ABS sucks, especially the WASD keyboards caps.  Then again, I think all thin caps don't feel that great.

Do the limited run sets like Toxic tend to be thick?

That's an SP set, so no. Cherry and GMK are thick ABS sets

JT caps too now right?


I prefer thick ABS to anything PBT. Like user 18 said, it's personal preference.

[hwood34]

Thick ABS is great,  I love my thick ABS and PBT.  In some ways I think thick ABS is better since I like the feel as it wears. 

Thin ABS sucks, especially the WASD keyboards caps.  Then again, I think all thin caps don't feel that great.

Do the limited run sets like Toxic tend to be thick?

That's an SP set, so no. Cherry and GMK are thick ABS sets

JT caps too now right?

Oh yeah

[trenzafeeds]

Thick ABS is great,  I love my thick ABS and PBT.  In some ways I think thick ABS is better since I like the feel as it wears. 

Thin ABS sucks, especially the WASD keyboards caps.  Then again, I think all thin caps don't feel that great.

Do the limited run sets like Toxic tend to be thick?

That's an SP set, so no. Cherry and GMK are thick ABS sets

Damn, that's too bad, I was really gunning for the toxics

[hwood34]

Thick ABS is great,  I love my thick ABS and PBT.  In some ways I think thick ABS is better since I like the feel as it wears. 

Thin ABS sucks, especially the WASD keyboards caps.  Then again, I think all thin caps don't feel that great.

Do the limited run sets like Toxic tend to be thick?

That's an SP set, so no. Cherry and GMK are thick ABS sets

Damn, that's too bad, I was really gunning for the toxics

I mean thin ABS =/= bad. It's all an opinion. I mean I prefer thick ABS personally, but thinner SP sets aren't that bad and if you really like the color scheme I say go for it

[trenzafeeds]

To be honest, now that I look through limited run cap sets, they're mostly SA anyways, so Ill just have to weigh the sacrifice.

[CPTBadAss]

To be honest, now that I look through limited run cap sets, they're mostly SA anyways, so Ill just have to weigh the sacrifice.

SA is the new trend. They're thick ABS from SP. DCS is the thin ABS from SP and the most common for GB profiles for a while.

[trenzafeeds]

To be honest, now that I look through limited run cap sets, they're mostly SA anyways, so Ill just have to weigh the sacrifice.

SA is the new trend. They're thick ABS from SP. DCS is the thin ABS from SP and the most common for GB profiles for a while.

Ok so SA doesn't actually sound too bad, I didn't realize they're thick.

[fohat.digs]

For really strong sharp legends that never wear out, doubleshot ABS is the way to go, if "looks" are most important.

Personally, I like the mass and texture of PBT, and I strongly dislike the slick (and I would say almost "greasy") feel of well-worn ABS.

[CPTBadAss]

Ok so SA doesn't actually sound too bad, I didn't realize they're thick.

Honestly? I sold all but one of my DCS sets and I'm only buying SA from SP from now on. I like SA caps a lot.

[nubbinator]

Ok so SA doesn't actually sound too bad, I didn't realize they're thick.

Honestly? I sold all but one of my DCS sets and I'm only buying SA from SP from now on. I like SA caps a lot.

And I megaloathe SA.  The profile is the worst.

[trenzafeeds]

Ok so SA doesn't actually sound too bad, I didn't realize they're thick.

Honestly? I sold all but one of my DCS sets and I'm only buying SA from SP from now on. I like SA caps a lot.

All this love for SA, you're making me consider the 1976

[clacktalk]

SA is not for everyone. I also hate SA because it feels like no

I enjoy both thick ABS and thick PBT. That being said, all the sets I use all have thick ABS

[awhitedev]

I'm currently looking for some stylish keycaps for my Pok3r, and I had my mind set on PBT doubleshots, but it just seems like a lot of the limited-run well-designed keysets seem to come only in ABS, for instance Toxic, Hack'd by Geeks, Retro, etc. I really want a keyset like those ones, but I also just love the feel of my PBT stock Pok3r caps. I'm not super concerned about the wearing down of the legends, but how different will the feel be?

I used to be in the same boat as you. I was skeptical of ABS... mostly because I was basing it off cheap stock keycaps found on almost all manufactured boards. I had the tendency to wear down these thin, pad printed or laser etched ABS caps very quickly... making it look shiny and feel almost greasy to the touch. (and no I wasn't eating cheetohs over my keyboard)

I then heard about thick doubleshot ABS. I purchased the Hack'd set from a member on this forum... and I love it! Totally different experience...

Something you might want to consider... most PBT is fairly textured on top from what I've seen. SA is very smooth... almost shiny right out of the box. That didn't bother me as much because it was designed that way from the beginning and not caused by me wearing it down unevenly.

I think JT and GMK are textured ABS caps; unfortunately my set has not come in for me to confirm. I'm excited to see them and I bet I'll like them even more.

As others have stated... I'd stay away from the cheap thin ABS stuff like DCS / DSA SP caps.

[user 18]

Remember if you're talking about SA that a R3 SA set will be a bit different from a sculpted SA set. I have not yet had a chance to try either, unfortunately, but based on my experiences with DCS and DSA, I personally would probably prefer the sculpted sets.

I probably won't ever buy any more DCS sets unless I want them just for display purposes, and I definitely won't buy any more DSA sets.

[njbair]

Cap thickness is really the main thing. Everything else is subjective.

ABS has the benefit of doubleshot legends, but they get shiny. PBT has surface durability, but it's not good for doubleshots. I once bought a set of Vortex doubleshot PBT+POM caps, and the legends are all uneven. They look lousy, which sort of defeats the purpose of doubleshot legends.

[Badwrench]

I prefer any thickness of ABS to PBT, but that's just me.  I also actually like the thin SP DCS sets - on my blues and whites it makes a nice hollow clicking sound during typing which goes away with the PBT (and SA).  It all comes down to personal preference.  If you like the look of Toxic, get it.  Worst case scenario is you hate it and sell it off. 

[KHAANNN]

Surface-wise speaking, ABS has a better grip with texture, PBT is hard, but less frictional - the difference is barely noticeable - I got to this conclusion by comparing SP's DSA PBT vs ABS keycaps (The texture disappears with usage, so PBT wins in the long run)
Surface-wise speaking, regular ABS is pretty good, whereas UV coated keycaps are slimy, the slime is much more slimier than a shined ABS keycap
Usage-wise speaking, making an ABS keycap shine is fun, it adds character, the double shot lives on
Second-hand-wise speaking, it's not fun buying a keycap set advertised as unused but in reality got shined and yellowed by someone else (light coloured keycaps also get discoloured by the way) - ABS gets pretty much soulbind to the user in a short amount of time
First-hand-wise speaking, If you're looking for a standard keycap set, PBT Cherry/OEM might work, there are some nice dye-sub PBT sets out there, yet for anything non-standard, PBT options are pretty limited (There is the Granite's, If you like the DSA profile)

So the Toxic set you want to buy might satisfy you, the surface will be great, most used keycaps will shine in 3-4 months, spacebar 1 month, depending on your expectations, switch type, the sound might satisfy you too - you should probably buy some single keycaps and see them for yourself, pretty much every themed single double-shot keycap is a SP DCS (eg: http://keypop.net/products)

I was recently able to buy a GMK Dolch set that was used for 4 days, I'm more optimistic with the GMK, wondering whether I will be able to tell the difference of used/unused GMK's :)

[njbair]

Surface-wise speaking, ABS has a better grip with texture, PBT is hard, but less frictional - the difference is barely noticeable - I got to this conclusion by comparing SP's DSA PBT vs ABS keycaps (The texture disappears with usage, so PBT wins in the long run)
Surface-wise speaking, regular ABS is pretty good, whereas UV coated keycaps are slimy, the slime is much more slimier than a shined ABS keycap
Usage-wise speaking, making an ABS keycap shine is fun, it adds character, the double shot lives on
Second-hand-wise speaking, it's not fun buying a keycap set advertised as unused but in reality got shined and yellowed by someone else (light coloured keycaps also get discoloured by the way) - ABS gets pretty much soulbind to the user in a short amount of time
First-hand-wise speaking, If you're looking for a standard keycap set, PBT Cherry/OEM might work, there are some nice dye-sub PBT sets out there, yet for anything non-standard, PBT options are pretty limited (There is the Granite's, If you like the DSA profile)

So the Toxic set you want to buy might satisfy you, the surface will be great, most used keycaps will shine in 3-4 months, spacebar 1 month, depending on your expectations, switch type, the sound might satisfy you too - you should probably buy some single keycaps and see them for yourself, pretty much every themed single double-shot keycap is a SP DCS (eg: http://keypop.net/products)

I was recently able to buy a GMK Dolch set that was used for 4 days, I'm more optimistic with the GMK, wondering whether I will be able to tell the difference of used/unused GMK's

Kahn, I have picked on you in the past for being detail-oriented (I may or may not have used the term OCD). But this post shows what a good thing that attention to detail can be, especially when combined with passion and an empirical approach. Thanks for taking the time to write this up.

[KHAANNN]

Kahn, I have picked on you in the past for being detail-oriented (I may or may not have used the term OCD). But this post shows what a good thing that attention to detail can be, especially when combined with passion and an empirical approach. Thanks for taking the time to write this up.

Thanks :)

Indeed I selectively obsess on some stuff, keyboards and keycaps obviously being one of them, probably because I think it's a nice future investment, I have obsessed over keyboards for 7 months, in a month I will probably retire with a trio of 60%'s and start enjoying my feeling (Eve DSA + linears for relaxation and gaming, GMK Dolch + tactiles as the one, Retro SA + clickies for an occasional change and to appreciate tactiles more)

It's always nice to identify/diagnose a situation tho, so you probably helped me in a small way towards breaking my obsessions

[UsualSuspectXXX]

I've got PBT sets on both of my daily drivers and them! Thick blank Vortex and Keycool rainbow.
That being said, I recently ordered the JTKeycaps and I'm really excited! The only ABS caps that I have right now and don't hate are the couple SP SA novelties... seriously need to get myself a full set of contoured SA.

[GSimon]

Ok so SA doesn't actually sound too bad, I didn't realize they're thick.

Honestly? I sold all but one of my DCS sets and I'm only buying SA from SP from now on. I like SA caps a lot.

Feel the same way. Really didn't like DSA (sold my Granite days after) and DCS, although nice, doesn't really hold up to GMK/Thick Cherry PBT dyesub. SA looks/feels top notch still.

Already parted with the Bro Set, looking to sell Toxic also though am waiting for the rest of the keys to arrive first. Unrelated by Bro Set/Toxic colorway would be wicked as a GMK set, or JT caps

[ConscienceDrop]

In hell all keyboards have ABS caps

[rowdy]

In hell all keyboards have ABS caps

In hell all keyboards are made by Razer.

[trenzafeeds]

Surface-wise speaking, ABS has a better grip with texture, PBT is hard, but less frictional - the difference is barely noticeable - I got to this conclusion by comparing SP's DSA PBT vs ABS keycaps (The texture disappears with usage, so PBT wins in the long run)
Surface-wise speaking, regular ABS is pretty good, whereas UV coated keycaps are slimy, the slime is much more slimier than a shined ABS keycap
Usage-wise speaking, making an ABS keycap shine is fun, it adds character, the double shot lives on
Second-hand-wise speaking, it's not fun buying a keycap set advertised as unused but in reality got shined and yellowed by someone else (light coloured keycaps also get discoloured by the way) - ABS gets pretty much soulbind to the user in a short amount of time
First-hand-wise speaking, If you're looking for a standard keycap set, PBT Cherry/OEM might work, there are some nice dye-sub PBT sets out there, yet for anything non-standard, PBT options are pretty limited (There is the Granite's, If you like the DSA profile)

So the Toxic set you want to buy might satisfy you, the surface will be great, most used keycaps will shine in 3-4 months, spacebar 1 month, depending on your expectations, switch type, the sound might satisfy you too - you should probably buy some single keycaps and see them for yourself, pretty much every themed single double-shot keycap is a SP DCS (eg: http://keypop.net/products)

I was recently able to buy a GMK Dolch set that was used for 4 days, I'm more optimistic with the GMK, wondering whether I will be able to tell the difference of used/unused GMK's

Kahn, I have picked on you in the past for being detail-oriented (I may or may not have used the term OCD). But this post shows what a good thing that attention to detail can be, especially when combined with passion and an empirical approach. Thanks for taking the time to write this up.

I agree, thank you as well! I've actually ended up going for white pbt blanks with rgb mods, but a little extra knowledge in always more than welcome! Your perspective about ABS caps being "soulbound" was quite interesting.

[njbair]

In hell all keyboards have ABS caps

In hell all keyboards are made by Razer.

In Hell, all keyboards are replaced with Palm OS graffiti, and all mice have roller balls (with dirty rollers).

[rowdy]

In hell all keyboards have ABS caps

In hell all keyboards are made by Razer.

In Hell, all keyboards are replaced with Palm OS graffiti, and all mice have roller balls (with dirty rollers).

Been a long time since I've had to rub a mouse's ball to get it going

[demik]

There is no difference unless you have soft drake hands.

[njbair]

In hell all keyboards have ABS caps

In hell all keyboards are made by Razer.

In Hell, all keyboards are replaced with Palm OS graffiti, and all mice have roller balls (with dirty rollers).

Been a long time since I've had to rub a mouse's ball to get it going

Back in the Windows 95 days, mall department stores used to sell computers (Compaq and the like). Before we were old enough to drive, my buddies and I would always have our parents drop us off at the mall. Then we'd walk down the street to the punk rock record store, spend our cash on new CDs, and walk back to the mall to listen to our new CDs using the demo computers' CD-ROM drives. Eventually some salesperson would come and shoo us away.

One time I decided I would steal the mouse ball from the computer I was using. It was probably the first time I'd stolen anything and I was super nervous. I walked out of the store with it, probably looking as suspicious as any kid ever has. As we walked through the mall, I eventually couldn't handle the anxiety anymore and I unloaded the mouse ball into a shoe as walked past a shoe store.

This has been mouse ball stories with njbair.

[rowdy]

In hell all keyboards have ABS caps

In hell all keyboards are made by Razer.

In Hell, all keyboards are replaced with Palm OS graffiti, and all mice have roller balls (with dirty rollers).

Been a long time since I've had to rub a mouse's ball to get it going

Back in the Windows 95 days, mall department stores used to sell computers (Compaq and the like). Before we were old enough to drive, my buddies and I would always have our parents drop us off at the mall. Then we'd walk down the street to the punk rock record store, spend our cash on new CDs, and walk back to the mall to listen to our new CDs using the demo computers' CD-ROM drives. Eventually some salesperson would come and shoo us away.

One time I decided I would steal the mouse ball from the computer I was using. It was probably the first time I'd stolen anything and I was super nervous. I walked out of the store with it, probably looking as suspicious as any kid ever has. As we walked through the mall, I eventually couldn't handle the anxiety anymore and I unloaded the mouse ball into a shoe as walked past a shoe store.

This has been mouse ball stories with njbair.

And you've probably been wondering ever since what the person that bought the shoe thought of a small heavy rubbery ball in the shoe.

[njbair]

In hell all keyboards have ABS caps

In hell all keyboards are made by Razer.

In Hell, all keyboards are replaced with Palm OS graffiti, and all mice have roller balls (with dirty rollers).

Been a long time since I've had to rub a mouse's ball to get it going

Back in the Windows 95 days, mall department stores used to sell computers (Compaq and the like). Before we were old enough to drive, my buddies and I would always have our parents drop us off at the mall. Then we'd walk down the street to the punk rock record store, spend our cash on new CDs, and walk back to the mall to listen to our new CDs using the demo computers' CD-ROM drives. Eventually some salesperson would come and shoo us away.

One time I decided I would steal the mouse ball from the computer I was using. It was probably the first time I'd stolen anything and I was super nervous. I walked out of the store with it, probably looking as suspicious as any kid ever has. As we walked through the mall, I eventually couldn't handle the anxiety anymore and I unloaded the mouse ball into a shoe as walked past a shoe store.

This has been mouse ball stories with njbair.

And you've probably been wondering ever since what the person that bought the shoe thought of a small heavy rubbery ball in the shoe.

Actually I've always assumed the FBI and CIA followed me out of the store that day, and only let me go because I grew a conscience and they were able to restore the mouse ball to its rightful owner without confrontation.

[rowdy]

In hell all keyboards have ABS caps

In hell all keyboards are made by Razer.

In Hell, all keyboards are replaced with Palm OS graffiti, and all mice have roller balls (with dirty rollers).

Been a long time since I've had to rub a mouse's ball to get it going

Back in the Windows 95 days, mall department stores used to sell computers (Compaq and the like). Before we were old enough to drive, my buddies and I would always have our parents drop us off at the mall. Then we'd walk down the street to the punk rock record store, spend our cash on new CDs, and walk back to the mall to listen to our new CDs using the demo computers' CD-ROM drives. Eventually some salesperson would come and shoo us away.

One time I decided I would steal the mouse ball from the computer I was using. It was probably the first time I'd stolen anything and I was super nervous. I walked out of the store with it, probably looking as suspicious as any kid ever has. As we walked through the mall, I eventually couldn't handle the anxiety anymore and I unloaded the mouse ball into a shoe as walked past a shoe store.

This has been mouse ball stories with njbair.

And you've probably been wondering ever since what the person that bought the shoe thought of a small heavy rubbery ball in the shoe.

Actually I've always assumed the FBI and CIA followed me out of the store that day, and only let me go because I grew a conscience and they were able to restore the mouse ball to its rightful owner without confrontation.

Not sure it works that way.  You removed it from the computer store where it was supposed to be, and left it somewhere else.  Doesn't matter where you left it, you remove it from where it was supposed to be

[KHAANNN]

In hell all keyboards have ABS caps

In hell all keyboards are made by Razer.

In Hell, all keyboards are replaced with Palm OS graffiti, and all mice have roller balls (with dirty rollers).

Been a long time since I've had to rub a mouse's ball to get it going

Back in the Windows 95 days, mall department stores used to sell computers (Compaq and the like). Before we were old enough to drive, my buddies and I would always have our parents drop us off at the mall. Then we'd walk down the street to the punk rock record store, spend our cash on new CDs, and walk back to the mall to listen to our new CDs using the demo computers' CD-ROM drives. Eventually some salesperson would come and shoo us away.

One time I decided I would steal the mouse ball from the computer I was using. It was probably the first time I'd stolen anything and I was super nervous. I walked out of the store with it, probably looking as suspicious as any kid ever has. As we walked through the mall, I eventually couldn't handle the anxiety anymore and I unloaded the mouse ball into a shoe as walked past a shoe store.

This has been mouse ball stories with njbair.

And you've probably been wondering ever since what the person that bought the shoe thought of a small heavy rubbery ball in the shoe.

Actually I've always assumed the FBI and CIA followed me out of the store that day, and only let me go because I grew a conscience and they were able to restore the mouse ball to its rightful owner without confrontation.

They were probably just waiting for you to confess on your own

[rowdy]

In hell all keyboards have ABS caps

In hell all keyboards are made by Razer.

In Hell, all keyboards are replaced with Palm OS graffiti, and all mice have roller balls (with dirty rollers).

Been a long time since I've had to rub a mouse's ball to get it going

Back in the Windows 95 days, mall department stores used to sell computers (Compaq and the like). Before we were old enough to drive, my buddies and I would always have our parents drop us off at the mall. Then we'd walk down the street to the punk rock record store, spend our cash on new CDs, and walk back to the mall to listen to our new CDs using the demo computers' CD-ROM drives. Eventually some salesperson would come and shoo us away.

One time I decided I would steal the mouse ball from the computer I was using. It was probably the first time I'd stolen anything and I was super nervous. I walked out of the store with it, probably looking as suspicious as any kid ever has. As we walked through the mall, I eventually couldn't handle the anxiety anymore and I unloaded the mouse ball into a shoe as walked past a shoe store.

This has been mouse ball stories with njbair.

And you've probably been wondering ever since what the person that bought the shoe thought of a small heavy rubbery ball in the shoe.

Actually I've always assumed the FBI and CIA followed me out of the store that day, and only let me go because I grew a conscience and they were able to restore the mouse ball to its rightful owner without confrontation.

They were probably just waiting for you to confess on your own

bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'

[UsualSuspectXXX]

In hell all keyboards have ABS caps

In hell all keyboards are made by Razer.

In Hell, all keyboards are replaced with Palm OS graffiti, and all mice have roller balls (with dirty rollers).

Been a long time since I've had to rub a mouse's ball to get it going

Back in the Windows 95 days, mall department stores used to sell computers (Compaq and the like). Before we were old enough to drive, my buddies and I would always have our parents drop us off at the mall. Then we'd walk down the street to the punk rock record store, spend our cash on new CDs, and walk back to the mall to listen to our new CDs using the demo computers' CD-ROM drives. Eventually some salesperson would come and shoo us away.

One time I decided I would steal the mouse ball from the computer I was using. It was probably the first time I'd stolen anything and I was super nervous. I walked out of the store with it, probably looking as suspicious as any kid ever has. As we walked through the mall, I eventually couldn't handle the anxiety anymore and I unloaded the mouse ball into a shoe as walked past a shoe store.

This has been mouse ball stories with njbair.

I enjoyed the read.
We used to steal them from the computers at school. Until they started glueing them closed. Then they all got dirty and no one could clean them... I guess we ruined it for everyone.

[njbair]

bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'

Nice reference! I wouldn't have caught it if not for Chrome's right-click search option. At first I thought maybe you forgot to switch to Dvorak or something.

For those still lost:

[KHAANNN]

well geekhack definitely needs a like button as at times like these it's hard to put things into words :)

[Hyde]

It's entirely a personal thing. Some people don't mind ABS, other people won't use it. Some people even prefer ABS to PBT. The only way to know for yourself is to get a set and see if you like it.

^ This, on top of it there are people who like certain keycaps for certain switches.

For example people tend to like clicky switches with thin keycaps so the keycap doesn't muffle the click sound.

And I also like ABS better on Cherry MX and PBT better on Topre.  I also like OEM profile better than Cherry profile.  So I'm like totally going against the wave of the crowd.

I think I spent about $300-400 in keycaps until I realize that.

You can start with the popular opinion which is thick PBT Cherry profile as a starting point then go from there and see what you like.