What is your favorite type of switch?

[timw4mail]

This is slightly different than what you might be thinking. This is a more general poll.

[bigpook]

I have fallen in love with them all for one reason or another. Nowadays, I just cycle through the collection. Today its a filco with brown cherries, tomorrow...?

[msiegel]

I have fallen in love with them all for one reason or another. Nowadays, I just cycle through the collection. Today its a filco with brown cherries, tomorrow...?

no topres, eh?

edit: i had to vote for buckling spring... i can beat the crap out of them when need be, without doing too much harm to my fingers

[FourOhFour]

Well, if someone can send me one of each, except the BS (have one on the way) and the cherry mx (have one), I'll let you know.

I think it'll be the BS, though. And I don't mean the kind Wash., D.C. exports.

[microsoft windows]

I like the feel and click of the buckling spring.

[bigpook]

no topres, eh?



edit: i had to vote for buckling spring... i can beat the crap out of them when need be, without doing too much harm to my fingers

I  sold my HHKB, and of course am regretting it now. That may have been the smoothest switch I ever typed on.

[JBert]

Sad that the kbdbabel project hasn't got a converter available. Are you planning on converting the keyboard, or do you treat it mainly as a collectors item?

I think the buckling beam keyboard would need some updates though should it ever be reproduced, the old modules look a bit too tall and heavy to be used in a modern keyboard.

[ch_123]

This is slightly different than what you might be thinking. This is a more general poll.

How was the other one not general?

And I've suspended my judgement on these things till I try a Beam Spring keyboard.

[itlnstln]

*Waits for the obligitory post from Welly wondering if Unicomp can make a Space Saver with Beam Spring switches*

[wellington1869]

hmmmm, i wonder if unicomp can make a space saver with beam spring switches! that would be cool.
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xD

[itlnstln]

My day is complete now.

[timw4mail]

Hmm...I wonder who voted ALPS... :tongue:

[ch_123]

alpslover? I heard he loves them Alps.

[ehird]

Yeah, what's a beam spring?

[ch_123]

You need to read this thread. More specifically, from page five onwards.

[microsoft windows]

Boy I wish I had Lego keyboards...

[timw4mail]

There we go, wouldn't lego cases be cheaper than actually having a mold made for custom keyboards?

[erricrice]

Bwahahahahahahaha!

The ALPS empire is growing!

[SCTony]

[ehird]

You need to read this thread. More specifically, from page five onwards.

Wow. My first thought was "that looks more buckling spring than buckling springs!", but it's actually similar to a Cherry Blue? How odd.

[JBert]

Well, webwit states it is similar to a Cherry Blue in feel, only better.

The key's mechanism is totally different though and rather large.

[itlnstln]

Did they use the Trendata as a word processor of sorts and the Selectric as a printer?

[ironcoder]

The Hazeltines weren't that great if I remember correctly, while DEC's VT100 series was truly awful.

[ironcoder]

Ripster since I'm reading your sig line again what do you like about the Filco 87 blue over the 87 brown?

[itlnstln]

What's the purpose of this poll? How come there isn't a Capacative Switch option?

You mean, other than the Topre option?  I think the idea is to get a picture of user preferences without, "should the Model F buckling springs be included with the Model M buckling springs?"

[itlnstln]

Yes.
 
Then again, all MX-lovers are in the same pool, so we'll see how that goes.

[itlnstln]

MX users aren't zealots like the Buckling Spring crowd. Just quiet thoughtful types.
 
OK, who voted ALPS? Fess up.

AlpsLover, Welly and XsPhat.
 
 
Just a guess.  It could be MSiegal, Welly and Bigpook, too.

[AndrewZorn]

yet to actually vote on this
but pulled out my brown filco again today
and am again incredibly amazed, compared to the topre/hhkb...

having to use autohotkey to preserve the hhkb layout, which kills some of its functionality, but already wishing i had paid up to get the NKRO version.

it is just totally different than a topre.
might end up with a NKRO tenkeyless blue cherry.
this is just so much 'bouncier' and relaxing to type on.

[erricrice]

MX users aren't zealots like the Buckling Spring crowd.  Just quiet thoughtful types.

OK, who voted ALPS?  Fess up.

Dat would be me.

See statement about the ALPS empire growing.

There's an evil laugh in there somewhere too.

[erricrice]

Yeah, it kinda goes with the territory.  You learn to cope with that fact lol.

[ironcoder]

I don't care how you vote as long as you don't vote Buckling Spring.  The poll is always more interesting when they lose because they have a fit.

Damit I just voted for buckling spring before I read your post.

Oh well :tongue:

Joke, I didn't vote cuz I ain't used 'em all yet.

[itlnstln]

I voted Cherry MX, of course.
 
I like BS, too, but until there's a version <= 55g, I won't be using them.
 
I still need to try a Topre.

[itlnstln]

Hmm...

[itlnstln]

That doctor scares me.  Why does he look like Eugene Levy?

[itlnstln]

That dog looks unhappy.

[AndrewZorn]

any tips for NOT bottoming out on Topre?

I keep typing faster with my Filco.  Every time.  I thought it was a fluke at first but I am spending way too much time smashing down the Filco keys.  The Topre is so silky smooth, but I cannot dance on top of the keys lightly like I can on Cherry Brown.

EDIT and I definitely find my Topre to be heavier than Brown Cherry.

[timw4mail]

I have two Cherry brown keyboards, and I like the one with the shorter keycaps, the Compaq to type on more than the Cherry branded keyboard, as the subtlety of the tactile point of the browns seems to be more obvious with a shorter keystroke, and bottoming out doesn't seem quite as wasteful.

[msiegel]

I have two Cherry brown keyboards, and I like the one with the shorter keycaps, the Compaq to type on more than the Cherry branded keyboard, as the subtlety of the tactile point of the browns seems to be more obvious with a shorter keystroke, and bottoming out doesn't seem quite as wasteful.

what's this... do shorter keycaps mean shorter travel for cherries?

if so, i could use a set with about 1mm shaved off

bottoming out is what i use for tactile feedback on the cherry browns.

[AndrewZorn]

yeah i didnt get the comment either

switch moves
not the cap

a laptop keycap and a 1" keycap would both move the same distance... however far the switch allows.

only way i could see varying it is maybe if the keycap outer shell hit the keyboard casing before the switch finished bottoming out, in which case, you could REDUCE the 'throw'

[timw4mail]

only way i could see varying it is maybe if the keycap outer shell hit the keyboard casing before the switch finished bottoming out, in which case, you could REDUCE the 'throw'

That's pretty much it.

[AndrewZorn]

yes but in that case, a 'taller' keycap would make the throw less, which is the opposite of what seems to be conveyed here (and opposite to what one might think initially, too)

unless you are agreeing

[msiegel]

cool, that would be helpful for me i plow right through the tactile point, but since activation happens so near the top of the stroke, the bottom is a little too far away for comfort.

[AndrewZorn]

illustration:




what i am saying is, are some/all keys limited by the caps?  a 'taller' cap can only 'reduce' the distance to bottoming out.
unless i don't get it.

[timw4mail]

illustration:

Show Image

what i am saying is, are some/all keys limited by the caps?  a 'taller' cap can only 'reduce' the distance to bottoming out.
unless i don't get it.

Okay, the key is shallower, more of the stem is covered by the keycap, so the key appears to actuate faster than a deeper keycap. Does that make sense?

[AndrewZorn]

right, so the keycap isn't what is bottoming out, it is the switch, which is why all cherry-based boards are quoted at 4mm, etc

so seeing shorter keycaps could in no way shorten the throw if it is the same switch

[AndrewZorn]

Okay, the key is shallower, more of the stem is covered by the keycap, so the key appears to actuate faster than a deeper keycap. Does that make sense?

wait, so how long the (+) part (looking from underneath the key cap) is is what stops the key?

before i can go on, i need to realize what stops the key:

- the edge of the cap hitting the floor (no)
- the switch internals ending
- the keycap (+) going over the stem hitting the switch housing

in the last case, a taller keycap "stem cover dealie" would give you less room to bottom out, too.  you would actuate the switch in the exact same distance (if at all, this assumes the keycap isnt absurdly long on this inside (+) part), but after that, the room to bottoming out would be increased by using a shallow/short keycap.

[msiegel]

I doubt the cap stops the switch before the switch bottoms out. That would be a design failure.

but isn't this how the models f & m work?

[AndrewZorn]

i dont think so (for any keyboard), it would feel awful, and you would not be able to wiggle the bottomed-out key

i marked it with (no) because i thought that was definitely how it did not work

now i just want to know how this does work, "short keycap" argument on hold

[msiegel]

maybe the models f and m should be considered an exception, because the spring and hammer don't really "bottom out" in a traditional sense

but the keycap (the thing on top of the key stem) does seem to be what stops the stem as it descends down the barrel.

[AndrewZorn]

alright so what is the terminology then

if there is none or we dont know it how about:
"outer cap" to describe what i was saying "there's no way" about, and
"inner stem sleeve" to describe what i think might actually stop the key (and what you seem to be talking about)

a taller "outer cap" should do nothing, as it should not matter.
a taller "inner stem sleeve" that covers more of the stem should actually prevent the switch from fully going down, reducing the throw, but hopefully not TOO much...
in which case, a "shorter" "keycap" would provide longer throw...

still extremely curious

EDIT and if the switch's internals actually stop the key, then any different results from the cap are purely placebo.  your fingers might be starting out lower from the desk but they would move the same distance.

EDIT and i guess i should state all this science is concerning only the cherry switch.  it might apply to more, but the BS works totally different and doesnt have all these parts my drawings illustrate.

forgot to mention earlier, look timw4mail's avatar:


which seems to show the BS equivalent of the "inner stem sleeve" preventing the key from going down further

EDIT this will sure be funny when he changes his avatar, and someone reads it later, trying to figure out what my argument has to do with a hot dog