Author Topic: Idea for MAKING a hardware Colemak/Dvorak keyboard (Read 8869 times)

AndrewZorn · « **on:** Sat, 17 October 2009, 19:00:02 »

Maybe I'm not understanding something, but wouldn't it be as easy as crudely modifying the PCB?

I am not good at soldering, but just taking short lengths of wire... cutting the trace(s) that goes to each letter, then using these short wires, soldered directly to the PCB, to bridge the gaps accordingly? Seems like it should take about an hour and some care to make sure you go to the right places...

Yes, you'd effectively 'ruin' whatever you did this to, but it seems like a nice way to have a 'travel' keyboard if you use a different layout.

I don't know if you could do this on a membrane or not.

Rajagra · « **Reply #1 on:** Sat, 17 October 2009, 19:22:32 »

I suspect doing this with Colemak would be much easier than Dvorak. I might give it a go on one of my Compaq MX11800 boards.

AndrewZorn · « **Reply #2 on:** Sat, 17 October 2009, 19:32:30 »

yeah, thats the board i was considering too

and yes, colemak has very few changes compared to dvorak

Specter_57 · « **Reply #3 on:** Sat, 17 October 2009, 21:12:43 »

This may be of interest to you...an interesting page, but could do with a better explanation...still...worth a look-see...

"How to make a hardware Dvorak keyboard converter":

http://dvorak-keyboard.net63.net/

Enjoy...Spec57

lowpoly · « **Reply #4 on:** Sun, 18 October 2009, 05:29:46 »

You'd not only have to relocate the isolated keys but also repair the matrix where you removed them from.

Possible, but a new controller (or converter) is probably more elegant.

ehird · « **Reply #5 on:** Sun, 18 October 2009, 07:26:22 »

The Kinesis Advantage has a QWERTY/Dvorak switch. Of course it's not very portable...

JBert · « **Reply #6 on:** Sun, 18 October 2009, 08:13:43 »

A nice hardware solution, but I would pretty much do this in firmware. This would at least allow you to toggle the remapping when a colleague comes over to type in the password to some obscure server.

Also, not every computer is set up to use Qwerty (*cough* France *cough* with its evil Azerty layout).

AndrewZorn · « **Reply #7 on:** Sun, 18 October 2009, 09:37:25 »

Quote from: lowpoly;126554

You'd not only have to relocate the isolated keys but also repair the matrix where you removed them from.

Possible, but a new controller (or converter) is probably more elegant.

i dont understand what you are saying here...

to most of the other replies,
i dont know how to reprogram firmware, i thought you needed special equipment...
i know there are better ways but with not much knowledge and for basically free i dont see why this would not work

EDIT but the DIY converter might be great. i am going to look into it.

lowpoly · « **Reply #8 on:** Sun, 18 October 2009, 12:50:19 »

If you cut traces to isolate a key then all the keys 'behind' that key in a certain row or column won't be connected anymore. You'd have to repair that (probably only sometimes).

Look here.

arwing · « **Reply #9 on:** Wed, 21 October 2009, 19:10:44 »

why would you want to do this? Maybe if you could only type on dvorak or colemak and had to use other people's computers for an extended amounts of time. Other than that I can't imagine why you would want to bother to do such a thing.

Rajagra · « **Reply #10 on:** Wed, 21 October 2009, 19:16:58 »

Why would you not want the option of using a better layout at every machine you visit?

arwing · « **Reply #11 on:** Wed, 21 October 2009, 19:52:10 »

Quote from: Rajagra;127513

Why would you not want the option of using a better layout at every machine you visit?

Because you'd have to carry the thing with you, and pretty much every operating system since 1995 supports switching keymaps on the fly, but not every computer supports switching PS/2 keyboards on the fly.

AndrewZorn · « **Reply #12 on:** Wed, 21 October 2009, 21:13:57 »

well, to start with, colemak is not an available layout in windows

internet access, admin privileges, compatibility with any os

Rajagra · « **Reply #13 on:** Wed, 21 October 2009, 22:11:22 »

Quote from: arwing;127520

Because you'd have to carry the thing with you, and pretty much every operating system since 1995 supports switching keymaps on the fly, but not every computer supports switching PS/2 keyboards on the fly.

Some places will not allow you to install any kind of software for security reasons, so using Colemak - or possibly even configuring use of Dvorak - is not possible.

Using a hardware-based alternative layout keyboard means you can have a second board plugged in so other, less fortunate users, can carry on using Qwerty.

Using a PS/2 to USB convertor usually solves the connection issue.

DreymaR · « **Reply #14 on:** Thu, 22 October 2009, 03:21:50 »

The layout switching in software is less well implemented than many people think.
- To get Colemak, you'd require a layout install (requires access rights and is cumbersome) or an AHK/PKL-type solution (some have reported lagginess on some comps and not 100% compatible; no substitute on non-Windows that I know of)
- My Playstation 3 has neither option (not talking about Linux-mode on it)!
- Many programs, especially older ones, don't play nice and look at scan codes instead of system mappings.
- I've had trouble with flash apps on the net too
- I may not be allowed to install programs on a computer, but a keyboard adapter is fine.

QIDO looks nice but costs as much as a good keyboard! No thanks for now.

The Atmel8l option looks fun. I hope someone can figure out how to make a Colemak version of it. Preferably one I could understand so I'd get my ZXCVB and VK_102 keys the way I like them, and optimally an USB solution since most my board/comp connections aren't PS/2-to-PS/2 these days.

JBert · « **Reply #15 on:** Thu, 22 October 2009, 11:41:01 »

Quote from: DreymaR;127550

- To get Colemak, you'd require a layout install (requires access rights and is cumbersome) or an AHK/PKL-type solution (some have reported lagginess on some comps and not 100% compatible; no substitute on non-Windows that I know of)

For Linux, xmodmap should do the trick. It runs from userspace and should be able to parse Shai's files for X.org.

chimera15 · « **Reply #16 on:** Thu, 22 October 2009, 20:46:12 »

You can do what I did with my steampunk board. Just get alps keys and mount the rack for the keys that sits above the pcb about a half an inch above it. Then solder leeds from all the connectors and move the wires to the correct holes, then start soldering the switches in. You can put whatever switch wherever you want that way.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=6313&highlight=btc+steampunk

DreymaR · « **Reply #17 on:** Fri, 23 October 2009, 06:10:08 »

Quote from: JBert;127610

For Linux, xmodmap should do the trick. It runs from userspace and should be able to parse Shai's files for X.org.

Thanks for the tip. However...

The GE system at my workplace runs a Red Hat v6.3.8 (X11?) that has no Colemak files in it. Every now and then it gets reinstalled from image by the engineers so any hacks I make and files I install disappear.

I've no idea how to do it on that Unix machine I'm also working on - but I usually access that remotely from a Windows machine that has Colemak.

Not saying it's incredibly hard to do in software, but it's cumbersome in some situations.

JBert · « **Reply #18 on:** Fri, 23 October 2009, 19:01:14 »

Well, if you can access a shared folder, you can keep the colemak files in there as you just need to run xmodmap on them every time you log in. Doing this automatically might be the tricky part as any .bashrc (or equivalents for X) might disappear from your homefolder.

Matias · « **Reply #19 on:** Sun, 08 November 2009, 05:23:26 »

Depending on how particular you are about the switches, you can actually make any layout you like fairly easily.

What you need is a keyboard that's firmware programmable via USB. You just modify the layout tables and then upload them to keyboard.

There are two such keyboards that I know of...

http://matias.ca/optimizer

http://matias.ca/tactilepro2

The Optimizer is rubber dome, but feels really nice. I'm using one now.

The Tactile Pro 2.0 is Alps (tactile & clicky) but out of production. You may still be able to find one on eBay.

AndrewZorn · « **Reply #20 on:** Sun, 08 November 2009, 06:52:58 »

uh, well yeah, of course if i had such a keyboard, it would be easy...

Tony · « **Reply #21 on:** Tue, 11 January 2011, 07:58:58 »

My Mitsumi keyboard has 1 type keys, so it can be made to any layout you like

Here the Colemak layout

taswyn · « **Reply #22 on:** Tue, 11 January 2011, 10:05:34 »

This isn't something *I'm* personally interested in, so I'm sorry that it's only a suggestion for someone else to investigate but what about a teensy or similar microcontroller with flash solution for building an inline scan code remapper? Rather than opening the keyboard and replacing the controller, why not a plug-in inline device to intercept and remap?

It may introduce some *very* mild latency, but it seems like an application where most of the functionality would just be handled by lookup tables. In many ways similar in a very general sense to a PS/2 to USB adapter, just smarter. And.... differenterer. =P

pkamb · « **Reply #23 on:** Sun, 16 January 2011, 03:46:35 »

Have you all seen the QIDO?

http://www.keyghost.com/qido/

Qwerty In Dvorak Out

I haven't had a problem switching to Dvorak since Windows 95 (still remember bringing the files to typing class on a floppy)... when you're talking about Colemak though I imagine there are a lot more support issues. A little dongle like this would solve the problems, someone should talk to them.

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #24 on:** Sun, 16 January 2011, 15:56:13 »

I'm very interested in a hardware QWERTY-Colemak converter. Similar to the QIDO, or switchable on the fly firmware?

I'm throwing my hat in the ring if anyone wants to pursue this.

hasu · « **Reply #25 on:** Mon, 24 January 2011, 13:21:29 »

If your keyboard is PS/2(or ADB), you may want to try my keyboard converter.

You need a Teensy on which your custom firmware works.
This converter offers you some features: mouse keys, USB NKRO and fully customized layout by editing simple code.

I have built a converter firmware to demonstrate, using this you can check out its features without building firmware yourself.
Try it and give me feedback!

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:14618

Quote

Special functions
Magic+0: Qwerty layout with mouse keys(default)
Magic+1: Qwerty layout
Magic+2: Colemak layout
Magic+3: Dvorak layout
Magic+4: Workman layout
Magic+N: toggles NKRO/6KRO(6KRO by default)
Magic+Esc: sends Power Event/Remote wakeup
where Magic=(LShift+RShift) or (LControl+RShift)

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #26 on:** Sun, 30 January 2011, 12:59:06 »

hasu:

Thank you for the info/link. REALLY GREAT STUFF! Is this something that may evolve into a USB device? I have 2 Kinesis Contoureds that I have split into 2 halves, one is PS/2, the other is USB. The PS/2 has been a test-bed, and may be sold this summer/fall. I have used it to try things that if successful, get incorporated into the USB model. The USB is just plain awesome.

hasu · « **Reply #27 on:** Sun, 30 January 2011, 20:37:09 »

Quote from: input nirvana;287320

Is this something that may evolve into a USB device?

You mean USB to USB converter like QIDO?
I think it is difficult or impossible to host USB device on Teensy.
In order to host USB keyboard we will need a new hardware/MCU.

News:

Author Topic: Idea for MAKING a hardware Colemak/Dvorak keyboard (Read 8869 times)