Why the winkeyless

[trenzafeeds]

Can someone explain to me why they build customs with the tsangan layout thanks.

[nickheller]

I personally think it looks better.

[raymogi]

Cause the windows keys are ugly. Hate it when I mispressed them too.

[0100010]

It is the one true layout.  Anything else is a poor imitation.

[trenzafeeds]

Idk, imo the 1u function key looks like garbage.

[jd29]

Incomplete bottom row looks better. I prefer HHKB's bottom row to winkeyless, and winkeyless to complete.

And a lot of people (rightfully) don't like OS branding on their boards. Sometimes agnostic caps are available but not always.

[FrostyToast]

The tsangan layout has symmetry.
WKL blockers also provide a more appealing aesthetic to some.

[0100010]

To some, it is the only way to roll.....

[Sifo]

Can someone explain to me why they build customs with the tsangan layout thanks.

it's k I don't like wkl either. converted my gon to 87 and I'm much happier with it now.

[nubbinator]

Some people like to be elitists and talk about how Windows is **** and how they don't need the keys.  Some people prefer not to have them.  Some people realize how much awesome **** you can do with winkeys and insist on having them.

[jd29]

Some people like to be elitists and talk about how Windows is **** and how they don't need the keys.  Some people prefer not to have them.  Some people realize how much awesome **** you can do with winkeys and insist on having them.

I'm a Windows user, but to be fair, you don't want an Apple logo or picture of Stallman on your keyboard, do you?

I use Win-R a lot but Fn-R can easily replace it.

[njbair]

Some people like to be elitists and talk about how Windows is **** and how they don't need the keys.  Some people prefer not to have them.  Some people realize how much awesome **** you can do with winkeys and insist on having them.

Some people call me the space cowboy.

Really, though, this is the right answer. I agree that WKL can look nice, but not nice enough to justify losing those extra keys, so I stick with modern layouts. I'm currently using my SSK at work, and several times a day I find myself reaching for that Windows key, whether to switch display modes on my second monitor, or to pull up the run dialog. I'm pretty much ready to program a Windows key macro into my converter because I miss the key so much.

[nubbinator]

Some people like to be elitists and talk about how Windows is **** and how they don't need the keys.  Some people prefer not to have them.  Some people realize how much awesome **** you can do with winkeys and insist on having them.

I'm a Windows user, but to be fair, you don't want an Apple logo or picture of Stallman on your keyboard, do you?

I use Win-R a lot but Fn-R can easily replace it.

I don't give a **** what the key looks like.  It could have Pee Wee Herman's face on it for all I care.  I just love the winkey because of how many awesome shortcuts are bound to it. 

Some people like to be elitists and talk about how Windows is **** and how they don't need the keys.  Some people prefer not to have them.  Some people realize how much awesome **** you can do with winkeys and insist on having them.

Some people call me the space cowboy.

Really, though, this is the right answer. I agree that WKL can look nice, but not nice enough to justify losing those extra keys, so I stick with modern layouts. I'm currently using my SSK at work, and several times a day I find myself reaching for that Windows key, whether to switch display modes on my second monitor, or to pull up the run dialog. I'm pretty much ready to program a Windows key macro into my converter because I miss the key so much.

I know I would have a hard time at work without it.  I use it for so much there.  Once you learn the shortcuts for your OS, it's an incredibly useful key.

[OTD]

wkl appeals to me more aesthetically more than anything. It might be similar on why some choose a sjort right shiftnrathee than a long one based largely on if they use that key or not.

[njbair]

wkl appeals to me more aesthetically more than anything. It might be similar on why some choose a sjort right shiftnrathee than a long one based largely on if they use that key or not.

The short right shift is usually so they can squeeze another Fn key next to it. That, and there's no reason for it to be 2.75 keys long when everyone hits it on the left with their pinky.

[OTD]

wkl appeals to me more aesthetically more than anything. It might be similar on why some choose a sjort right shiftnrathee than a long one based largely on if they use that key or not.

The short right shift is usually so they can squeeze another Fn key next to it. That, and there's no reason for it to be 2.75 keys long when everyone hits it on the left with their pinky.

half the people in my class use the right shift. I think being a gamer or not also contributes to the younger generation using the left one.

[njbair]

wkl appeals to me more aesthetically more than anything. It might be similar on why some choose a sjort right shiftnrathee than a long one based largely on if they use that key or not.

The short right shift is usually so they can squeeze another Fn key next to it. That, and there's no reason for it to be 2.75 keys long when everyone hits it on the left with their pinky.

half the people in my class use the right shift. I think being a gamer or not also contributes to the younger generation using the left one.

I wasn't clear. I meant people hit the right shift on its left edge, using their right pinky. It could probably get away with being a 1U or 1.25U key, realistically.

But for the record, I do use both shifts when I touch type. I was taught to use the shift on the opposite hand as the key you need to shift, so that's what I do.

[hwood34]

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[nubbinator]

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[azhdar]

I find it very aesthetically pleasing on kustoms because you get to see a large portion of the alu case on the winkeys position.



That being said I prefer to build it with 1.5 mods but 1u in between, because I use my winkey and an extra key to bind never hurts.

[Oobly]

History and aesthetics. The IBM Extended was like that, so some feel it's the only way. Others who use Ctrl or Alt for gaming don't like having the Win key there since it's too easily to accidentally press it and interrupt your game.

The symmetry argument is a bit moot since the rest of the board is far from symmetrical and the centre point of the typing area is to the left of the centre of the board (and the 7x spacebar), so you have to reach further for the right mods than the left. It does look nice on some builds, though.

I'm happy-ish with the "standard" 3x1.25, 6.25, 4x1.25 layout as it fits more keys in, but much prefer a split spacebar layout as then you get more useful functionality. The standard positions of keys on the bottom row (except the left Ctrl and space) make them really awkward to use, IMHO.

[Photekq]

Aesthetics is a valid point for many, but it's not the real reason people started making winkeyless customs.

They started doing them so that people could use full original Cherry keysets on them, both doubleshot and dyesub, since they were the best MX keysets you could find. To be honest, they still are the best MX keysets you can find. Cherry doubleshots are of higher quality than GMK doubleshots, even though the same moulds are used.

Even if you look at the winkey customs that OTD made, the 356L and the 356N, their caps locks and spacebars are off-center. This is because they were meant for use with original Cherry winkey keysets, such as the blank POMs from G80-3000LPCXY-2.

[PrinsPils]

I agree , it looks better without the windows key, but i need the key for OSX, glad i got a blank keycap for the windows button  

[Macsmasher]

My only complaint with my HHKB is that I can't have both a Fn and Win key on the left. I love my Win keys because I actually work with my keyboards.

[meow a cat]

Aesthetics is a valid point for many, but it's not the real reason people started making winkeyless customs.

They started doing them so that people could use full original Cherry keysets on them, both doubleshot and dyesub, since they were the best MX keysets you could find. To be honest, they still are the best MX keysets you can find. Cherry doubleshots are of higher quality than GMK doubleshots, even though the same moulds are used.

Even if you look at the winkey customs that OTD made, the 356L and the 356N, their caps locks and spacebars are off-center. This is because they were meant for use with original Cherry winkey keysets, such as the blank POMs from G80-3000LPCXY-2.

This was my understanding as well, so you could use a complete OG Cherry set without any compromise.

I think it was also one of the reasons the Phantom was designed, so people with Filcos could use OG Cherry sets.

I mainly like 84 and 86 key for its looks, but compatibility with vintage Cherry is a really nice bonus!

[darkspider]

Like many, I prefer winkeyless because of its appearance. Yes, it is not a reasonable reason at all.
But when it comes to pressing the lowest line, it provides some advantage. When I press ctrl key on the corner with my palm, the space between alt and ctrl plays like a guide to put my hand on the precise position.

[Oobly]

Like many, I prefer winkeyless because of its appearance. Yes, it is not a reasonable reason at all.
But when it comes to pressing the lowest line, it provides some advantage. When I press ctrl key on the corner with my palm, the space between alt and ctrl plays like a guide to put my hand on the precise position.

"indexing by touch" is a perfectly valid reason It serves a functional purpose for you then, not just aesthetics. I like to hear about different use cases like this one.

[Nai_Calus]

Just have it with 1u keys between the 1.5 mods, I guess, but I already think 6.25 spacebars are ridiculous and a terrible idea so the 7u is even worse.

My Model F has a 1.5 1 1.5 7 1.5 1 1.5 bottom row and I think the spacebar is ridiculously long(Even though for an F it's short, yes.)

I've only got an objection to 1.5 gap 1.5 etc. Especially when used with OSes that use all three of those keys in the corner...

[Findecanor]

I don't use the winkeyless layout, but I use 1.5 mods with 6u Space Bar on my Phantom. I like having the useful mods bigger and the less useful mods small.

[rpeterclark]

Looks aesthetically better without it, and maybe you could argue that it's easier to orient yourself by touch without it, but the OS key is without a doubt the most versatile and powerful key on the board. It was the Fn key before we had Fn keys. If you are going winkeyless, map caps lock to the OS key, you get the looks and keep the functionality.

[TheO-RingGuys]

Looks way better without them lol. Honestly I hate them because I always seem to accidentally press it when I'm in an intense game of CS: GO.

[Macsmasher]

I've played CS since valve released it. I still play CS GO on a private server with buddies I've known for 10+ years. And before that, I played the Quake games, the original Unreal, etc. etc. I have never had a problem hitting the Win key. I can't recall one time actually. My advice is...don't hit the Win key when you're in a game. If you have a problem with that, you have a problem with keyboards.


I liken it to guns. I have a lot of guns and shoot regularly. I don't shoot competitively, but could if I had the desire. There is no excuse for accidental shootings. Keep your finger out of the trigger guard and the gun won't go off. I don't complain because there's a trigger.

[patachu]

if there was caps that says "start/command" and "option" instead of these licensed, trademarked icons, i would get them, but it's not the case. also, the windows key always been ctrl-esc for me, and adding a right click.. on a desktop's keyboard is dumb. ...and even dumber on a laptop but i found some hacks to do with these using SharpKeys to make it useful: a redundancy of F11, maximizing windows. the other starts a command prompt.

[Oobly]

I've played CS since valve released it. I still play CS GO on a private server with buddies I've known for 10+ years. And before that, I played the Quake games, the original Unreal, etc. etc. I have never had a problem hitting the Win key. I can't recall one time actually. My advice is...don't hit the Win key when you're in a game. If you have a problem with that, you have a problem with keyboards.


I liken it to guns. I have a lot of guns and shoot regularly. I don't shoot competitively, but could if I had the desire. There is no excuse for accidental shootings. Keep your finger out of the trigger guard and the gun won't go off. I don't complain because there's a trigger.

You're too young. Gamers who played the original Wolfenstein 3D, Doom and Duke Nukem on DOS learnt to hate the Win key.

[sth]

My only complaint with my HHKB is that I can't have both a Fn and Win key on the left. I love my Win keys because I actually work with my keyboards.

iirc this might be possible, swap win for alt via dip switches and then make lalt fn via dip. maybe this makes the 1.5 key an fn though -- it's been a while since i tested that. you have to deal with alt/win swap on right side too but w/e.

this is also possible with OS X + DIP settings (swap modifiers in OS X keyboard settings and swap fn settings with DIP switches) but i have a feeling that won't work for you

the true answer is tmk FW board

[asgeirtj]

Winkeyless > Winkey

Why? Here's why

Looks better.  Why? well, first of all it's better than 1,25x1,25x1,25x6,25x1,25x1,25x1,25x1,25x because that  style doesnt have uniformity (3 buttons left of space, 4 right of it).  I know 1,5x1x1,5x has uniformity as well but those 1x function keys just look terrible.  Secondly 1,5x looks better than 1,25x imo since those keys seem a little cramped.  It's as there were a lot of keys just threw on there without any regard if they would be useful, who uses the winkey on the right and the task menu key? they're useless, so we throw them away and use that space to make the board more beautiful. Thirdly, fewer keys often look better than more keys.  This of course, has to clash with the utility of having more keys, but in this instance I think looks trump utility because I have ctrl as caps lock, and that means I can use the regular ctrl key as the windows key, so I'm not losing the windows key anyway.  Also it looks better because as you get that extra blank space between ctrl and alt, if you have an alu case it shows off more of the alu and makes it look better.  To better understand this principle look at the hhkb layout.  Look at Duck's viper (hhkb layout) vs Duck's eagle (poker layout), the viper looks much better because it introduces a blank space on the keyboard to show off the aluminum case in a horizontal position.  This is same reason that 75% look horrible, they have no blank space (they also look really cramped but that's another story). 

[VinnyCordeiro]

It could have Pee Wee Herman's face on it for all I care.

Group buy, anyone?

[trenzafeeds]

It could have Pee Wee Herman's face on it for all I care.

Group buy, anyone?

If you put his face onto the Tux penguin, I'm definitely in.

[sth]

Because I don't want a board called "Winky"

[Oobly]

Because I don't want a board called "Winky"

An I don't ever want to be winkyless....

[sth]

Because I don't want a board called "Winky"

An I don't ever want to be winkyless....

oh i get it, your penis is a keyboard

[TheO-RingGuys]

I've played CS since valve released it. I still play CS GO on a private server with buddies I've known for 10+ years. And before that, I played the Quake games, the original Unreal, etc. etc. I have never had a problem hitting the Win key. I can't recall one time actually. My advice is...don't hit the Win key when you're in a game. If you have a problem with that, you have a problem with keyboards.


I liken it to guns. I have a lot of guns and shoot regularly. I don't shoot competitively, but could if I had the desire. There is no excuse for accidental shootings. Keep your finger out of the trigger guard and the gun won't go off. I don't complain because there's a trigger.

You're too young. Gamers who played the original Wolfenstein 3D, Doom and Duke Nukem on DOS learnt to hate the Win key.

Lol amen man!

Apart from that - and I know it's a bit weird - but I use the s,z,x,c keys for movement rather than the traditional WASD. It just seems much more comfy for me. B)

[Oobly]

Because I don't want a board called "Winky"

An I don't ever want to be winkyless....

oh i get it, your penis is a keyboard

hmmm.. oh dear, I only use 60% or smaller...