Author Topic: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case  (Read 6415 times)

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Offline trenzafeeds

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[IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 13:08:46 »
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« Last Edit: Wed, 21 October 2015, 02:38:37 by trenzafeeds »
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Offline Durvid

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 13:10:23 »
I would be in for one for sure. The Massdrop one is hideous.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 13:18:59 »
I'm just going to float this out there. You've posted it multiple times and even made this thread. A scan with the new scanning tools might be easy (I don't know much about that tbh) but a CAD file with proper drawings isn't that easy. I'd guess it'd be at least 3-5 hours of work. It kinda sucks seeing that you want something that (potentially) takes a degree, experience, and hours of work to be handed to you.

I did CAD work for a living for 2 years.

I hope your project succeeds. I just wanted to point out it's not like we've all got a hidden cache of CAD drawings laying around.

Edit: The 3D scanner at the makerspace near me has a very small platform. I'm not actually sure an HHKB would fit into the scanner's range. I'd love to learn more if anyone's got more info on that.
« Last Edit: Mon, 19 October 2015, 13:22:31 by CPTBadAss »
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Offline kturnbull

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 13:22:56 »
I'm just going to float this out there. You've posted it multiple times and even made this thread. A scan with the new scanning tools might be easy (I don't know much about that tbh) but a CAD file with proper drawings isn't that easy. I'd guess it'd be at least 3-5 hours of work. It kinda sucks seeing that you want something that (potentially) takes a degree, experience, and hours of work to be handed to you.

I did CAD work for a living for 2 years.

I hope your project succeeds. I just wanted to point out it's not like we've all got a hidden cache of CAD drawings laying around.

This. So much this. I would have had a case made yeaaaars ago if I could find a decent CAD file of it. It really needs someone with a bunch of experience in both worlds to craft something amazing for it.

Offline trenzafeeds

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 13:25:15 »
I'm just going to float this out there. You've posted it multiple times and even made this thread. A scan with the new scanning tools might be easy (I don't know much about that tbh) but a CAD file with proper drawings isn't that easy. I'd guess it'd be at least 3-5 hours of work. It kinda sucks seeing that you want something that (potentially) takes a degree, experience, and hours of work to be handed to you.

I did CAD work for a living for 2 years.

I hope your project succeeds. I just wanted to point out it's not like we've all got a hidden cache of CAD drawings laying around.

I'm not saying it doesn't take work. If this somehow ends up working, I would happily provide a free case or payment to whoever does the drawing. Otherwise if someone sends a scan I could pay to have a proper CAD done. Maybe I was a bit brief about it in the OP, but I wasn't really expecting it to be easy. I'm also not expecting to just profit off of someone else's work. I don't think I'm going to make any money at all if this ever reaches buy stage, in fact, I would probably lose money. I'm trying to do this because it's obviously something the community wants and I think I may have the resources available to make it happen.
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Online HoffmanMyster

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 13:32:56 »
I'm just going to float this out there. You've posted it multiple times and even made this thread. A scan with the new scanning tools might be easy (I don't know much about that tbh) but a CAD file with proper drawings isn't that easy. I'd guess it'd be at least 3-5 hours of work. It kinda sucks seeing that you want something that (potentially) takes a degree, experience, and hours of work to be handed to you.

I did CAD work for a living for 2 years.

I hope your project succeeds. I just wanted to point out it's not like we've all got a hidden cache of CAD drawings laying around.

This. So much this. I would have had a case made yeaaaars ago if I could find a decent CAD file of it. It really needs someone with a bunch of experience in both worlds to craft something amazing for it.

I understand that these posts are meant to be informative rather than refusals to do the work, so know that my comment isn't a rebuttal to you.

But this is still a very useful thread for starting discussion and getting ideas flowing.  Why can't we solicit the work of someone here to design a case, and pay them with GB funds?  That's kind of the whole point of a GB, right?  To make something happen as a community that wouldn't be possible individually?  We usually pay proper "manufacturers", but why can't we pay a member with CAD skills too?

Maybe CPT will be kind enough to share his rate.  ;)

Offline Photekq

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 13:35:49 »
I've offered to do this multiple times in multiple threads. Send me a HHKB on loan and I will attempt to recreate it in CAD. The design (the switch tops) may turn out to be too complex for me to get anywhere, but it's at least worth a try. Or I'd be happy to adapt a scan into a functional design.
« Last Edit: Mon, 19 October 2015, 13:40:39 by Photekq »

Offline trenzafeeds

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 13:37:18 »

I understand that these posts are meant to be informative rather than refusals to do the work, so know that my comment isn't a rebuttal to you.

But this is still a very useful thread for starting discussion and getting ideas flowing.  Why can't we solicit the work of someone here to design a case, and pay them with GB funds?  That's kind of the whole point of a GB, right?  To make something happen as a community that wouldn't be possible individually?  We usually pay proper "manufacturers", but why can't we pay a member with CAD skills too?

Maybe CPT will be kind enough to share his rate.  ;)

Thanks hoff, that's much more graceful than my response. As I said, I would be happy to pay someone with funds or a case or both. I'm not intending to pay myself for my time, but I've got tons of it free, and I understand that others don't, so this is totally reasonable. I'm also under no illusion that I somehow own this groupbuy because I made the thread. This should totally be a community effort.
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 13:38:28 »
I wasn't trying to **** on anyone like Hoff said, I just wanted to point that out. I'd consider doing the work as long as you're serious about getting quotes. PM me for more info.
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Offline romevi

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 13:42:57 »
I would love to get one if it was truer to the HHKB case. I hope this isn't another Sky Dolch thread and that this actually comes to fruition soon.

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 13:44:50 »
I could send someone my case while they make a CAD if it needs to be done.  :)

Offline trenzafeeds

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 13:46:31 »
Talking to el-capitan about drawing up a CAD, sit tight ya'll.
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Offline btctopre

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 13:47:41 »
I'd be in as long as it were executed decently, but ideally I'd like to see a floating-plate case with cutouts in the plate for the standard Realforce slider housings. So something similar to this, with the curvature of a HHKB (or at the very least, the same height dimensions/angle as a stock case)-


Obviously this would be more expensive for the end-user, as they the cost pre-case would be $300+ (HHKB + Type Heaven for parts), but it would better retain the feel of a HHKB while offering an alternative aesthetic to the usual black/white ABS cases. You also wouldn't have to worry about the case wearing down the slider over time, which is a major concern with the MD case now. I'd assume this style would also be cheaper for the case itself, as it'd eliminate a lot of the special tooling needing to machine the curves for the embedded housing.

Offline Dee1

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 13:49:19 »
I do CAD work for a living, and I agree with CPTBadAss that this would take some time to do.

I can't donate any time myself, but I would be interested in chipping in some money to help pay to get it properly modeled up.

Offline tribade

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 13:58:33 »
Definitely interested.  I'll be keeping an eye on this IC.  The MD one is absolutely garish.   :thumb:
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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 14:00:43 »
Interested in this for sure.

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 14:48:35 »
I'm currently doing some experiments on this and have a thread about it: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76133.0

Seems like some people want to keep the plastic plate since it's the signature hhkb feel (heh). I'm currently looking into combining an alucase with plastic plate.

Offline keshley

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 15:26:53 »
Interested also.
  
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Offline Vizir

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 16:14:41 »
Keeping it like the original case would mean those of us with Hasu's mods and batteries for Bluetooth versions can also participate!

Offline absyrd

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 16:43:46 »
I'm currently doing some experiments on this and have a thread about it: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76133.0

Seems like some people want to keep the plastic plate since it's the signature hhkb feel (heh). I'm currently looking into combining an alucase with plastic plate.

I strongly prefer the plastic plate as I'm a softy. Sounds good to me.
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Offline tribade

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 16:57:36 »
I'm currently doing some experiments on this and have a thread about it: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76133.0

Seems like some people want to keep the plastic plate since it's the signature hhkb feel (heh). I'm currently looking into combining an alucase with plastic plate.

I strongly prefer the plastic plate as I'm a softy. Sounds good to me.

I actually like the metal plate a whole lot on my real force, but I love the layout of the hhkb so either way is good for me. I think all in all a metal plate would be a better fit for me, personally.
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Offline trenzafeeds

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 18:57:13 »
Update: Talking to some other people who have been working on similar projects in an effort to join forces, also confirmed with Cpt that he would be willing to do a top-quality CAD model if compensated for his time. This guy is crazy qualified, so I'd call it totally worth it. Keep it coming with the feedback on this thread. No concrete design has been decided on by any means.
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Offline raymogi

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 19:53:10 »
Count me in.
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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 20:04:56 »
I would be interested if we managed to make an alu case that didn't change the signature hhkb feels (maybe with a plastic plate?)

Offline trenzafeeds

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 20:08:10 »
I would be interested if we managed to make an alu case that didn't change the signature hhkb feels (maybe with a plastic plate?)
Saw that this was mentioned on the other thread as well. There seems to be some significant interest for both alu and plastic plates, so the dream is that they'd be somehow interchangeable.
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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #25 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 20:15:31 »
I would be interested if we managed to make an alu case that didn't change the signature hhkb feels (maybe with a plastic plate?)
Saw that this was mentioned on the other thread as well. There seems to be some significant interest for both alu and plastic plates, so the dream is that they'd be somehow interchangeable.

Yeah, that would be cool too!

Offline a_ak57

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #26 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 22:24:19 »
I'd be interested depending on price.  Would want aluminum plate.

Offline romevi

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #27 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 22:28:46 »
I think aluminum and plastic plates offered both would be nest, but if it had to be one then an experienced HHKB user should decide which is closer to the original.

Offline sth

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 02:01:15 »
i would just like to say i love the idea that massdrop, known for jacking or otherwise ****-headedly capitalizing on community/open source designs, has caused a resurgence of cooperatively-driven -interest in an alu case after attempting to (yet again*) be the first to get a community-developed/idealized concept to market. here's hoping the community-designed case comes to fruition (i say this in all earnestness).

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Offline fanpeople

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 02:50:57 »
Much interest in this

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 03:27:54 »
The problem I have faced while thinking of a design, is how to mount the plate. If I do a mount in the top case it will need somewhat thick edges, I don't know how good a bottom mount will be, but I'm still looking at alternatives :)

Offline atlas3686

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 04:02:45 »
I would be interested if we managed to make an alu case that didn't change the signature hhkb feels (maybe with a plastic plate?)
Saw that this was mentioned on the other thread as well. There seems to be some significant interest for both alu and plastic plates, so the dream is that they'd be somehow interchangeable.

Wow, that would be really amazing. All the topre feels in one board :) As always very interested in a Alu HHKB case.

Offline Oobly

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 05:43:13 »
How about two models. One traditional, exactly like a stock case, one with slightly wider bottom row area (and wider spaced stabiliser insert holes to match a stock 6.25x spacebar), but actual sliders in exact same positions as stock. This would allow you to use MX sliders (from a Novatouch, Noppoo, Royal Kludge or JT Keycaps) and a "standard" bottom row (1.25x, 1.25x, 6.25x, 1.25x, 1.25x). I wouldn't mind an HHKB with metal case, 55g domes, MX sliders and SA profile caps for instance....

I'd be willing to help with the CAD work (with due compensation from the GB), but I'd need an actual case to take measurements from. Also, we need to be able to specify tolerances, so it'd probably need a few small tests made with a single slider.
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Offline trenzafeeds

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 05:53:13 »
How about two models. One traditional, exactly like a stock case, one with slightly wider bottom row area (and wider spaced stabiliser insert holes to match a stock 6.25x spacebar), but actual sliders in exact same positions as stock. This would allow you to use MX sliders (from a Novatouch, Noppoo, Royal Kludge or JT Keycaps) and a "standard" bottom row (1.25x, 1.25x, 6.25x, 1.25x, 1.25x). I wouldn't mind an HHKB with metal case, 55g domes, MX sliders and SA profile caps for instance....

I'd be willing to help with the CAD work (with due compensation from the GB), but I'd need an actual case to take measurements from. Also, we need to be able to specify tolerances, so it'd probably need a few small tests made with a single slider.
I do really like the idea of doing something that could accommodate sliders, the only issue is this case already has the potential to be damn expensive, and making two separately MOQ'd models would make it more so. That said, it could totally be doable and would be amazing if it happened. Signature is doing a bit of design experimentation, so I would talk to him.
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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #34 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 06:00:21 »
I've offered to do this multiple times in multiple threads. Send me a HHKB on loan and I will attempt to recreate it in CAD. The design (the switch tops) may turn out to be too complex for me to get anywhere, but it's at least worth a try. Or I'd be happy to adapt a scan into a functional design.
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Offline Bucake

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #35 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 06:30:45 »
interested for sure
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Offline Chedda7

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 19:45:18 »
Definitely interested.  Do you know how much work others in the community have done?  Is CAPT Badass building this thing from the ground up?

Offline trenzafeeds

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #37 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 19:57:46 »
Definitely interested.  Do you know how much work others in the community have done?  Is CAPT Badass building this thing from the ground up?
I replied to your PM, but just so everyone knows I'll give a quick update.
Right now Signature is carrying on with his earlier investigation of maintaining the plastic plate with an aluminum case. Ideally we'd like to have an interchangeable plate, so that's the main thing that we need to work out before we move into the next steps of design. Once we cross this bridge we will most likely start enlisting the labour of Captain Badass to do the final CAD mockups, as we are paying him only to CAD, not to redesign the entire case. As for pricing, I have sent along a basic idea of what the case will consist of to shop that I'm looking at in hopes of getting a very rough ballpark estimate. Still waiting to hear back from them.
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Offline Photekq

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #38 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 20:00:45 »
I can probably get at least a few free prototypes since I'm doing mechanical engineering at university. They've definitely got high end CNC mills here; we just toured the workshop a few weeks ago.

If anyone does have a spare HHKB I would love to be able to get my hands on one so that I can attempt a design. I have some ideas for interchangeable plates.

Offline trenzafeeds

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #39 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 20:06:26 »
There's a bunch of people expressing interest in helping with design, do people want like a separate thread for collaborative design and brainstorming?
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Offline Chedda7

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 20:11:33 »
Definitely interested.  Do you know how much work others in the community have done?  Is CAPT Badass building this thing from the ground up?
I replied to your PM, but just so everyone knows I'll give a quick update.
Right now Signature is carrying on with his earlier investigation of maintaining the plastic plate with an aluminum case. Ideally we'd like to have an interchangeable plate, so that's the main thing that we need to work out before we move into the next steps of design. Once we cross this bridge we will most likely start enlisting the labour of Captain Badass to do the final CAD mockups, as we are paying him only to CAD, not to redesign the entire case. As for pricing, I have sent along a basic idea of what the case will consist of to shop that I'm looking at in hopes of getting a very rough ballpark estimate. Still waiting to hear back from them.

Great news!

So if we got the interchangeable route we would need:

Plate/Case - What is being worked now with this future GB (stay positive! ;))
HHKB - PCB, keycaps
Type Haven/RF - Switch housings

Domes/springs/sliders can come from either HHKB or TH/RF. 

Did I missing anything?

Offline tararais

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #41 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 23:50:20 »
Very interested, I was going to go for the MD one until I, you know, saw it.

Offline njbair

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #42 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 23:59:02 »
This thread makes me want a HHKB for the first time ever.

Any chance of making this work with a standard 60% PCB/plate, so that existing Infinities could go in here, obviously sans the extra bottom row buttons?

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Offline romevi

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #43 on: Wed, 21 October 2015, 00:03:02 »
This thread makes me want a HHKB for the first time ever.

Any chance of making this work with a standard 60% PCB/plate, so that existing Infinities could go in here, obviously sans the extra bottom row buttons?
Wouldn't the traditional HHKB form clash with existing 60% boards? I guess you could take out the plate with the Topre switch cutouts, but then there's still the case's curve.

Offline njbair

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #44 on: Wed, 21 October 2015, 00:04:37 »
This thread makes me want a HHKB for the first time ever.

Any chance of making this work with a standard 60% PCB/plate, so that existing Infinities could go in here, obviously sans the extra bottom row buttons?
Wouldn't the traditional HHKB form clash with existing 60% boards? I guess you could take out the plate with the Topre switch cutouts, but then there's still the case's curve.
Dunno. Never actually touched a HHKB. But just putting it out there to see if it's possible.

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Offline trenzafeeds

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #45 on: Wed, 21 October 2015, 02:11:11 »
livingspeedbump just mentioned on reddit that he's been working on one of these for "a long time". Not really sure I want to be one of those people running a competing IC, would you people prefer that I just take this down and let you all wait for his? Apparently he already has something like designed and funded.
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Offline Oobly

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #46 on: Wed, 21 October 2015, 02:20:19 »
I think it was very premature to start an IC for this... The feasibility, initial design, etc is not even clear yet...

So this is more of a "hope this can be done, but I don't actually have anything yet, post your ideas" thread. Signature already has a thread for this in "Making stuff together", so how about we post there instead: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76133.0

Where would we source the plastic plate from? The HHKB plate is not removable, it's part of the top case. Having them made is less feasible than making full CNC plates including housings.

And what's the point of a metal housing if you want to keep the "feel" the same? Topre users....  :confused:

HHKB has a separate board with the connectors on, so we'd have to add a hole in the case for a "traditional" 60% connector position to support Infinity, GoN NerD60, etc. Also, HHKB plate and PCB is flat (it's just the case that has the curve), so it's doable:



And if you're going to try to sell more than like 5 of these you can't require people to buy a whole extra board just to source switch housings.

This thread.... sigh... All hype and little substance.

The way I'd do it is to have a development thread that you use to thrash out design ideas and feasibilities to get the design to a stage that you're ready to start having test samples made. And instead of going for "this machine shop I know of that's close to me" you get quotes from a bunch of places, choose the most promising few and get some samples made to check their quality. THEN you start an IC thread...
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Offline trenzafeeds

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Re: [IC] Traditional Form-factor HHKB Aluminum Case
« Reply #47 on: Wed, 21 October 2015, 02:39:26 »
updated the OP and I'll just lock the thread. I probably wasn't ready to do this anyways.
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