Absolutely best lubricant for the stabs?

[dario]

So I was looking for a best way to lube spacebar in a Topre board and after reading a lot of the older threads, I narrowed my choice down to these four lubes.

• MechLube Premium Stabilizer Grease (6$ on EK: http://is.gd/lfCyGM )
• Super Lube Silicone Lubricating Grease with PTFE (around 3$ on kustompcs: http://is.gd/rlpjfr )
• DuPont Krytox GPL 205 (around 20 dollars on ebay: http://is.gd/R2zoyB )
• Finish Line Extreme Fluoro Grease (around 10 dollars on ebay: http://is.gd/aEpsIk )

The first two of the aforementioned lubes are silicone based, while the last two are pure PFPE/PTFE greases.

Silicone based greases seem to be a lot cheaper, but as some user have reported they tend to dry out and start to crumble pretty soon, just like white lithium greases which are supposedly found in most factory lubed mechanical keyboards.

Finish Line Extreme Fluoro is praised by many people as cheap and great lube, but it has been speculated that it is actually only rebranded Krytox 203/204 grease.

As far as my understanding goes, lube for stabs needs to have as higher viscosity as possible, so Krytox 205 would logically be an even better choice, and maybe best and ultimate choice.

Am I right?

[CaplockJack]

If it is rebranded Krytox get the Finish Line - it is cheaper.

[dario]

If it is rebranded Krytox get the Finish Line - it is cheaper.

Yeah, I was thinking something along the same lines... although some users have mentioned this grease too in context of drying out too soon.

The real problem is there is no any kind of a definitive lubricants comparative test, which is pretty astonishing when you think about it. Every day, every hour, someone here mentions some kind of lube, and yet everything we have are a bunch of personal opinions. The closest thing I could find to some kind of comparative test with objectively defined criterias is ripster's lubing guide on imgur.

[strict]

Absolutely do not get the Finish Line Extreme Flouro, it dries out very quickly and little flecks of it get everywhere. I've got a whole tube sitting here unused because it makes such a mess when it dries out.

I've been using mkawa's thick or extra thick krytox blends for a long time now and have been very happy with them. It does a great job eliminating rattles and is as slick and lubricious as you could ever want. From your list I would chose the GPL205 above everything else.

[Sed8op8]

Absolutely do not get the Finish Line Extreme Flouro, it dries out very quickly and little flecks of it get everywhere. I've got a whole tube sitting here unused because it makes such a mess when it dries out.

I've been using mkawa's thick or extra thick krytox blends for a long time now and have been very happy with them. It does a great job eliminating rattles and is as slick and lubricious as you could ever want. From your list I would chose the GPL205 above everything else.

^^^^strict be talking true I got lucky and picked some up early before having to do the whole trial and error run around. I liked the results and never looked back

[dario]

Thanks for the advice guys.

Now about that mkawa's extra thick krytox blends... is it presently availabile anywhere or am I too late for something once again?

I have few more questions on lubing topic.

If I lube my spacebar properly, do I have to do it ever again?

And something else. I've read somewhere that Realforce puts a little lube even on their key sliders, while Novatouch stems are completely dry. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

[hasu]

My realforce sliders are completely dry, no wet lube at least. Topre may use dry lube but I don't know.

[dario]

My realforce sliders are completely dry, no wet lube at least. Topre may use dry lube but I don't know.

I see. So no lube after all.

As far as I know, dry lubricants are only used in special applications where, due to extreme temperatures, liquid and oil-based lubricants cannot longer operate. So I don't think there is a possibility Topre used any kind of dry lubricant in their keyboards.

I'm thinking about lubing sliders in a Realforce keyboard, some users were talking about even smoother expirience after doing that. And besides, it would be much easier thing to do than on a Cherry MX switch based boards.

However, I'm not so sure about the long term benefits, especialy in a dust filled room such as mine.
After a while, very fine grains of dust could stick to any lubricated part of the keyboard and make the situation much worse than it was before lubing. And since there is virtually no solvent that can easily clean that kind of mess, maybe it would be much wiser to just lube internal parts which are not directly exposed to any kind of particles and dust.

@strict & @Sed8op8

Speaking of lubes, I was searching throughout the old forum threads to find that mkawa's lube you people were taking about, and the only thing I could find is a techkey's custom made premixed lube: http://techkeys.us/collections/accessories/products/krytox-switch-lurbricant

Is this thick flavor mkawa's lube you were taking about or not? If not, where can I find it? 

[SpAmRaY]

The techkeys lube does come from mkawa.

[dario]

The techkeys lube does come from mkawa.

That's great, thanks!

So there are three different mixes: thin, thick, and spring lube.

Is mkawa's extra thick lube actually labeled as "thick"? Or maybe they don't sell that exact mix.

Anyway, even this "thick" formula should be somewhat better than usual GPL 205 for stabs, I presume?

I can see it's a krytox GPL 206/1506 mixture, so it's not only grease as in GPL 205, but something inbetween grease and oil. I guess mkawa had some specific goal on his mind mixing these two together.

[Herothereu]

Isn't Mkawa AFk?

I bought Krytox oil from Classifieds and mixed myself.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69789.msg1676256#msg1676256

[dario]

Isn't Mkawa AFk?

I bought Krytox oil from Classifieds and mixed myself.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69789.msg1676256#msg1676256

Yeah, but that's krytox GPL 103 you're speaking of. I don't think that's mkawa's "extra thick" formula. I'm not saying it's bad, but I'm looking for the best of the best here, just as the name of the topic implies. 

BTW, how do you even mix lubes? I though you need some kind of machine for doing that kind of stuff. You did it manually?

[SpAmRaY]

Isn't Mkawa AFk?

I bought Krytox oil from Classifieds and mixed myself.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69789.msg1676256#msg1676256

Yeah, but that's krytox GPL 103 you're speaking of. I don't think that's mkawa's "extra thick" formula. I'm not saying it's bad, but I'm looking for the best of the best here, just as the name of the topic implies. 

BTW, how do you even mix lubes? I though you need some kind of machine for doing that kind of stuff. You did it manually?

If you have the oil and grease you just mix it up varying the amount of either or to get the consistency you want. Mkawa went through and played mad scientist with krytox and found what he believed to be a good combination and that is where the different variations of spring lube, thin lube, thick lube and extra thick lube etc come from

You can get the 'thick' lube from techkeys go here http://techkeys.us/collections/accessories/products/krytox-switch-lurbricant and use the drop down box to pick thick

[Sed8op8]

The techkeys lube does come from mkawa.

That's great, thanks!

So there are three different mixes: thin, thick, and spring lube.

Is mkawa's extra thick lube actually labeled as "thick"? Or maybe they don't sell that exact mix.

Anyway, even this "thick" formula should be somewhat better than usual GPL 205 for stabs, I presume?

I can see it's a krytox GPL 206/1506 mixture, so it's not only grease as in GPL 205, but something inbetween grease and oil. I guess mkawa had some specific goal on his mind mixing these two together.

Also These I believe were from mkawa
http://zealpc.net/products/geekhackers-v2-lube-kit

[SpAmRaY]

The techkeys lube does come from mkawa.

That's great, thanks!

So there are three different mixes: thin, thick, and spring lube.

Is mkawa's extra thick lube actually labeled as "thick"? Or maybe they don't sell that exact mix.

Anyway, even this "thick" formula should be somewhat better than usual GPL 205 for stabs, I presume?

I can see it's a krytox GPL 206/1506 mixture, so it's not only grease as in GPL 205, but something inbetween grease and oil. I guess mkawa had some specific goal on his mind mixing these two together.

Also These I believe were from mkawa
http://zealpc.net/products/geekhackers-v2-lube-kit

I believe dario is looking for thick, zeal's stock shows thick as sold out.

[nubbinator]

I still highly recommend Molybdenum Disulfide if you're looking for a dry lube.  You can get it dirt cheap and a little goes a long way.

[dario]

My realforce sliders are completely dry, no wet lube at least. Topre may use dry lube but I don't know.

I've done some further research on this subject and it seems that Realforce sliders ARE factory lubed after all.

There is an old discussion between ripster and limmy which can be found here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=26646.0

I will quote some parts of the discussion here and highlight relevant informations:

Here are what I find on different switches:
1. HHKB: HHKB housing is made of ABS plastic and the housing acts as slider housing. Topre switch's slider is not ABS, it seems to me they are pretty similar to POM and coated with some kind of lubricant out of factory.
2. Membrane keyboards: Pretty much all membrane keyboards have ABS plastic housing and sliders.
3. Cherry: Cherry switches' slider housing use PBT(saw this at Cherry wiki) and sliders seems to be some sort of slick plastic(I am guessing they are either POM or PBT, but certainly not ABS because they do not react to acetone.)
4. Alps:Alps switches' slider housing is made from ABS. Again, not sure about slider but certainly not ABS.

Topres less durable than Cherry MX?  Oh well.  life IS temporal.

P.S. I do not remember Topre main cluster sliders being lubed from the factory.  Unfortunately I can't post pics.

Photo evidence doesn't tell much of a story about lubrication if it is not visually detectable. Any decent membrane is lubed out of factory. In order to test this hypothesis, all you need to do is wash it with soap and warm water.

I will post photos when I get a chance comparing old and new sliders. I don't have plans to wash my like-new slider for the purpose, but if you are curious you are more than welcome to try the washing testing method out if you firmly believe that Topre slider is not lubed.

As noted before, ABS plastic is not a best material to use when friction is of concern. It is probably why the sliders are lubricated out of factory. The smooth feel is probably due to the lube too, which will eventually wear out after prolonged use.

So maybe part of the reason for the subpar Topre feel on the Novatouch boards are its dry sliders. Someone should further investigate this, maybe we can get some interesting results.

[dario]

If you have the oil and grease you just mix it up varying the amount of either or to get the consistency you want. Mkawa went through and played mad scientist with krytox and found what he believed to be a good combination and that is where the different variations of spring lube, thin lube, thick lube and extra thick lube etc come from

Yes, of course, I understand that part of the story.

However, as the name of the topic implies, I am looking for the best possible lube for the stabs. Going through this discussion, we narrowed possible choices down to Krytox 205, mkawa's thick lube and mkawa's extra thick lube.

Now... judging by the comments users have left in this thread, it seems that best choice in absolute terms for Topre stabs would be mkawa's extra thick lube. But I couldn't find it anywhere and I don't think it's available anymore.

So to conclude this topic, I would have to choose between regular Krytox 205 and mkawa's thick lube, which, unlike extra thick, can still be acquired on a few keyboard enthusiast webshops.

If anyone has to say anything about this which would make me into buying any of the two, please do. But for now this is my reasoning: since we speak about stabs, not switches, I need a lube with higher viscosity designation. Which of the two is more thick? Well, it's hard to say. mkawa's thick lube is made of premixed Krytox 206 and Krytox 1506. Krytox 206 is a grease, and Krytox 1506 is an oil. Now, Krytox 206 by itself is much more thicker than Krytox 205, so that sounds good, but since it's mixed with oil,  it's not the same thing anymore.

In the end, which of the two is more thick, regular Krytox 205 or mkawa's thick mix? It's impossible to say without knowing the exact ratio of Krytox 206 and oil. I guess the only person on this forum who can know that for sure is mkawa itself.

To make it even more complex, techkeys state on their website "This kit is made for switches to enhance your typing experience." So, it's made for the SWITCHES, not for the stabs. But then again, that doesn't necessarily mean it cannot be used in that kind of application.

I've read on this forum that some users were praising mkawa's lube as more "silky and smooth" than a regular Krytox, so it looks like that was his goal from the start when he came up with the idea to mix it with oil. Also, I speculate that adding oil in the mix would save grease from quickly drying out and starting to crumble.

Last but not least, mkawa's mix is way cheaper than any Krytox 205 I've found on Ebay.

Maybe I'm overthinking all this, but if anyone has qualified opinion on this matter, I would like to hear it. Final decision - Krytox 205 or mkawa's thick lube?

I still highly recommend Molybdenum Disulfide if you're looking for a dry lube.  You can get it dirt cheap and a little goes a long way.

This certainly looks interesting, but I don't know much about dry lubes. It's not very expensive though.

What are the advantages over Krytox-based lubes? Is it a good way to lube stabs or is it only for sliders/switches?

Does its performance degrade in conditions of high humidity?

And the biggest question of them all: how the hell it stays in its place if we're talking here about slippery dust, so to say? If I put a little dot of Krytox on a collision point of the metal wire and a plastic holder, it will stay there because it's sticky and wet but what about dry lube?

Thanks for any eventual input. 

[SpAmRaY]

Maybe I'm overthinking all this

^^ Very much this.

Lubing stabilizers has always been secondary to lubing switches. So when you see lube marketed it is generally towards switches. The krytox thick mixture from techkeys will be perfectly fine for your stabilizers.

The idea of 'absolutely best' will always be subjective and ultimately based on personal preference.

[ideus]

The best mod for Cherry stabs is to clip them, costar ones work well as designed. Lubricant is really not required because we have a plated surface with a polished finishing working on soft plastic, combination that makes interference almost non existent.

[SpAmRaY]

The best mod for Cherry stabs is to clip them, costar ones work well as designed. Lubricant is really not required because we have a plated surface with a polished finishing working on soft plastic, combination that makes interference almost non existent.

You do realize the OP is about Topre stabilizers

[ideus]

The best mod for Cherry stabs is to clip them, costar ones work well as designed. Lubricant is really not required because we have a plated surface with a polished finishing working on soft plastic, combination that makes interference almost non existent.

You do realize the OP is about Topre stabilizers

Ops! Nope, sorry my bad.    Thought it was about Cherry or Costar's. LOL.


Edit: I should copy this post in a thread I saw about the worst post we ever had. Just if I can find it.