Author Topic: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?  (Read 12309 times)

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Offline Bol0Aa

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Hello.

For those of you that use or have used a mechanical keyboard: What feature were you looking for when you purchased your keyboard, and in what aspects have you found that it performs better than a standard keyboard?. I am especially interested on whether using a mechanical keyboard:
  • you write faster
  • you write more accurately,
  • is more comfortable
  • helps you in particular with a health problem (like carpal tunnel syndrome or repetitive strain injury)
or whether you find it satisfactory because of something different. Likewise, apart form the added cost, what have been the downsides for you?

Thanks.

Edit: fix wording.
« Last Edit: Sat, 07 November 2015, 08:18:21 by Bol0Aa »

Offline jaffers

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 06 November 2015, 14:40:04 »
Downsides? My wallet hates me.

Benefits? As a tool it doesn't really get the job done any different. I like the way they feel, its comfortable. I like to customise and I like the keyboard/keycap aesthetics. It's my hobby and I don't really know what makes it so appealing to me. I just like them.

As far as health goes, if you are going to use emacs you are going to get RSI no matter what keyboard you are using. I myself have never seen a professionally published paper on the health benefits of using mechanical keyboards so I wouldn't use that as an argument before I go to buy one.

Writing faster and more accurately? Most definitely. Different weights of switches could either make it easier to press down and thus move your fingers quicker and lighter across the keyboard. Alternatively you could have heavy switches and stop yourself mid press if you realise you are hitting the wrong key (IMO 2mm to actuation is more than enough to stop yourself mid button press), and also avoid accidentally pressing the key that you don't want when moving your fingers etc.. (this is common with lighter switches, they are very easy to depress). Also if you want to learn how to touch type if you don't know how to already, use blank keycaps.

At the end of the day you are getting a higher quality tool and you can make it yours however you want, whether it is simply the aesthetic or the feel. Welcome to the forums! ^:)

Offline zslane

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 06 November 2015, 15:41:30 »
By far the #1 benefit I get is the ability to install SA (and DSA) family spherical keycaps from Signature Plastics. Any keyboard that doesn't allow me to do that, regardless of its other qualities (*cough*Topre*cough*), is useless to me.

The #2 benefit is superior feel due to the quality of soft linear MX switches.(*)

The #3 benefit is superior build quality and durability.

(*) This would also apply to NovaTouch switches, but Cooler Master doesn't make an ANSI 104 board so the NovaTouch is a non-starter for me. They also only come in black...

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 06 November 2015, 15:43:46 »
By far the #1 benefit I get is the ability to install SA (and DSA) family spherical keycaps from Signature Plastics. Any keyboard that doesn't allow me to do that, regardless of its other qualities (*cough*Topre*cough*), is useless to me.

The #2 benefit is superior feel due to the quality of soft linear MX switches.(*)

The #3 benefit is superior build quality and durability.

(*) This would also apply to NovaTouch switches, but Cooler Master doesn't make an ANSI 104 board so the NovaTouch is a non-starter for me. They also only come in black...
You can put SA and DSA on Topre, you just need MX compatible sliders.

I should add that is exactly what the novatouch is, Topre with MX compatible sliders.

But ctrlalt will soon be shipping MX compatible Topre sliders soon so we can swap them into our other Topre boards.
« Last Edit: Fri, 06 November 2015, 16:08:09 by SpAmRaY »

Offline zslane

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 06 November 2015, 15:49:23 »
That's like saying you can run Mac software on a Dell PC, you just need a Mac motherboard.

Offline inanis

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 06 November 2015, 15:51:28 »
That's like saying you can run Mac software on a Dell PC, you just need a Mac motherboard.

I'm going to disagree with you there. That would be more like saying in order to use MX compatible caps you had to have an MX compatible PCB. Sliders are not what make Topre, Topre. At least not to me, perhaps you disagree?
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Offline clacktalk

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 06 November 2015, 16:07:24 »
That's like saying you can run Mac software on a Dell PC, you just need a Mac motherboard.

I'm going to disagree with you there. That would be more like saying in order to use MX compatible caps you had to have an MX compatible PCB. Sliders are not what make Topre, Topre. At least not to me, perhaps you disagree?

that's a fair observation, since there are no SA profile caps made with T stems. just an extra step one must take if you like how SA feels on T, which is purely preference. i dislike both Topre and SA, so i wouldn't touch said keyboard with a v long pole

back on topic: i enjoy custom keyboards for a couple reasons. first, they feel really damn good, and i do feel less fatigue when i type on my ergo clears vs. rubber domes or even scissor switches. programmability is also very important to me, as it optimizes how i use the keyboard and reduces gratuitous finger travel. i've also been known to look for detachable usbs for easy swapping/storing. i also do enjoy the aesthetics of keyboards (especially customs), but definitely less than others.

if you know what you're looking for, customizability is the best thing to have happened to keyboards. the only downside i have is the minor nuisance of swapping keyboards when i want to play games, since i really like playing games on vintage blacks, but it's not that big a deal.
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Offline chyros

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 06 November 2015, 16:08:08 »
Keyfeel. Sound. The pleasure and interest of collecting a variety of them.
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline davkol

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 06 November 2015, 16:20:29 »
  • you write faster
No, I don't. My burst speed is about 1/8 slower on my preferred "mechanical" switches (medium-stiffness linear) than on good scissor switches, and much lower on the non-preferred switches.

  • you write more accurately,
No, I don't or the difference is negligible.

  • is more comfortable
That's relative. On one hand, I don't get fatigued from bottoming out, when typing on switches with the right force/travel. On the other hand, rolling over adjacent keys (as typical for Colemak) on a low-profile (typically scissor-switch) keyboard is much easier on tendons IME.

  • helps you in particular with a health problem (like carpal tunnel syndrome or repetitive strain injury)
Well, I'm not aware of any split symmetrical non-mechanical keyboard with decent thumb-key placement. Perhaps TouchStream, but it has its own set of issues. Or microTron, depending on your definition of "mechanical".

If there's one benefit, it's the sheer amount of customization options with common discrete switches. Tuning switches, replacing keycaps… or building keyboards with custom layouts.

I currently use an ErgoDox in an unusual configuration. My other keyboard is a modded QFR. Then I plan to bastardize a couple of older mechanical keyboards to make new custom designs.
« Last Edit: Fri, 06 November 2015, 16:24:03 by davkol »

Offline demik

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 06 November 2015, 16:21:36 »
elitist attitude towards plebs
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Offline zslane

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 06 November 2015, 17:42:24 »
That's like saying you can run Mac software on a Dell PC, you just need a Mac motherboard.

I'm going to disagree with you there. That would be more like saying in order to use MX compatible caps you had to have an MX compatible PCB. Sliders are not what make Topre, Topre. At least not to me, perhaps you disagree?

Well, I meant it in the sense that Topre switches and MX caps are not at all compatible unless you take the switch completely apart and rebuild it with a different part (the slider). That's like taking your PC apart and rebuilding it with a new motherboard so it becomes "compatible" with the software you want to run. In either case it is way more effort than I would want to go to. Besides, I don't think there is a Topre switch that can properly take SA keycaps anyway. Even with MX sliders, I don't think either the regular RealForce nor the HiPro switches would really accomodate SA keycaps properly (for reasons other than the shape of the stem recepticle).

Offline inanis

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 06 November 2015, 17:50:30 »
elitist attitude towards plebs
+1

*inanis is learning how to ****post. Did I do it right?

That's like saying you can run Mac software on a Dell PC, you just need a Mac motherboard.

I'm going to disagree with you there. That would be more like saying in order to use MX compatible caps you had to have an MX compatible PCB. Sliders are not what make Topre, Topre. At least not to me, perhaps you disagree?

Well, I meant it in the sense that Topre switches and MX caps are not at all compatible unless you take the switch completely apart and rebuild it with a different part (the slider). That's like taking your PC apart and rebuilding it with a new motherboard so it becomes "compatible" with the software you want to run. In either case it is way more effort than I would want to go to. Besides, I don't think there is a Topre switch that can properly take SA keycaps anyway. Even with MX sliders, I don't think either the regular RealForce nor the HiPro switches would really accomodate SA keycaps properly (for reasons other than the shape of the stem recepticle).

At best it is like needing a better graphics card. It doesn't make the keyboard run, it is just a component, not the heart and soul. Some people disagree and I'm no Torpe superfan, so maybe my perception is a little bit skewed. Also, nothing is too much effort if it gets me to where I want to be. :)) I've seen people put SA on boards with MX compatible sliders. Can't say I've tried it myself though.
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Offline beehatch

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 06 November 2015, 17:52:06 »
elitist attitude towards plebs
+1

*inanis is learning how to ****post. Did I do it right?

no

Offline jerue

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 06 November 2015, 17:54:38 »
Hello.

For those of you that use or have used a mechanical keyboard: What feature were you looking for when you purchased your keyboard, and in what aspects have you found that it performs better than a standard keyboard?. I am especially interested on whether using a mechanical keyboard:
  • you write faster
  • you write more accurately,
  • is more comfortable
  • helps you in particular with a health problem (like carpal tunnel syndrome or repetitive strain injury)
or whether you find it satisfactory different out of it. Likewise, apart form the added cost, what have been the downsides for you?

Thanks.

With mechanical keyboards the greatest advantage is the customization. Want something to help press faster? boom. Want something very comfortable and possibly ergonomic? boom.

Buying my first board I wanted something with backlighting and a Mac layout. Bought a Razer Blackwidow Ultimate, and did it's job for quite some time. Then I found reddit and geekhack...

Offline demik

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Offline zslane

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 06 November 2015, 17:55:32 »
No, you're right. SA keycap compatibility is not necessary to make a Topre keyboard work. All I'm saying is that it is necessary to make me a devoted user of one. And that "all it takes to make it compatible is to take apart 104 switches and transplant their sliders" is non-trivial enough to disqualify it from any rational definition of "compatibility".

Offline azhdar

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 06 November 2015, 17:55:51 »
Comfort that include several points:
-Size of board I desire , 60%, 65% , TKL , split keyboard ...
- Key bound the way I desire. Even if It can be done through software on a basic keyboard it's more comfortable to have it in the keyboard firmware
- quality typing : uniformity of the feeling across the board, switches modded to my liking


Having a beautiful keyboard is also part of the pleasure in this hobby.
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Offline inanis

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Offline dante

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 06 November 2015, 18:09:20 »
My mechanical lets me masturbate with complete strangers.

Look at my board!
Look at my shoe!

AM I DOIN IT RIGHT?

HHhhnngg.....

Now show me yours!

Offline eternalmetal

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 06 November 2015, 19:12:53 »
  • you write faster

I get roughly the same speeds on typing tests on the chiclet Apple keyboard as compared with my mechanical boards, so no.  Buying a mechanical and typing on it inspired me to finally start touch typing, so in a way I could say that it helped me type faster. 

  • you write more accurately,

Maybe a little bit.  I tend to make a lot of errors on chicklet keys and scissor switches, and sometimes when im typing fast on rubber domes the keys dont register since I didnt fully compress the key.  I am somewhat of a heavy handed typist, so basically any switch with low actuation force would be more conducive to making errors.  The idea of a mechanical switch doesnt really have much to do with it.

  • is more comfortable

For me, this is pretty much the entire reason to buy a mechanical keyboard.  Cheap rubber domes and chiclet boards, imo, are very incomfortable to type on.  All of my previous rubber dome boards are a mushy mess to type on, and the very reason I got interested in getting a mech in the first place was because I couldnt stand how bad it was to type on.  It felt like typing on keys that were situated on top of a waterbed.  I wanted keys that would have consistency and good key feel without a harsh bottom out (those Apple keyboards fatigue me), which is exactly what mechanical keyboards offer.  Id pick any mech over a chiclet board, and just about any mech over a decent rubber dome.

Also, boards like TKL, TK, and 60% offer the option of more ergonomic placement next to a mouse.  AFAIK, Apple is the only company that sells cheap keyboards and also offers the option for a space saving keyboard size.  I didnt fully realize just how much I would enjoy the placement of the mouse until I got a TKL board myself.  My old keyboard simply took up too much space, and I would have to reach far to the right to use my mouse if I wanted to center the alpha keys on my desk.

  • helps you in particular with a health problem (like carpal tunnel syndrome or repetitive strain injury)

Fortunately I dont have this problem, but the way I see it is like this; if a keyboard is more comfortable to type on, you probably reduce the risk of developing an RSI.  The ergonomics of your desk setup are a far more critical factor, but at the very least, my fingers feel less fatigued when typing on my mech than with the other options.  Split keyboards, mechanical or not, are probably better for CTS and RSI in an ideal setup (and you will hear many sufferers of health issues swear by them).  If you are worried about this, then you are better off making your setup more ergonomic than you would by just replacing your keyboard.

Likewise, apart form the added cost, what have been the downsides for you?

The way I see it, it would be like asking someone if there is any downside to owning a Lexus vs a Kia.  There is absolutely no benefit in owning a cheaper car with inferior comfort, handling, build quality, etc.  Any of the differences would all come down to cost: my $10 keyboard can do the same thing as your $200 keyboard.  Just as a Kia will get you to work just like the Lexus, the benefit all comes down to the quality of the ride (and whether you can afford/justify the cost). 

Well, there is the factor of now being curious as to which keyboard form factor and switch type you will like best.  It can become like a drug addiction, where you keep buying different keyboards to see if you can find the one that you enjoy using most.  While I have only ever bought 2 mech boards (and am quite satisfied with my RF 87U 55g), I still bought one more keyboard than I really needed.  And I cant exactly promise that I wont eventually buy a new board just to see if I like it better than the Realforce.

Offline Badwrench

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 06 November 2015, 19:21:58 »
There are a couple reasons I prefer a mechanical board.  They are in no particular order, just the main reasons. 

1.  The keyboard is the main input device on my computer which I may spend hours a day on.  I figure I should enjoy the use of it (both from the standpoint of finding exactly what I like as far as sound and feel), and from the joy of watching my Wife try to use a JD40.   :thumb:

2.  I love to tinker.  I used to really be into building and customizing computers.  It was fun for a while, but it is just too expensive to keep changing parts for nearly no reason other than I wanted to.  With keyboards, I can have several different ones that I have built up over the years and can change it out whenever I want.  Also, pretty much everything in this hobby doesn't lose value when used, so if I buy something I don't like, there is a very good chance that someone else will want it. 

wut. i'd buy a ****ty IBM board for that green V2

Offline demik

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 06 November 2015, 19:23:48 »
> blank caps
> nobody uses my board since they cant touch type
> all i care about




















More
ha, like i have people to show my keyboards too

im so lonely ;_;
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Offline raymogi

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 06 November 2015, 19:25:57 »
For me, comfort is more about your body posture etc. when you're typing so it's more on you than the keyboard. Well maybe the angle of the keyboard will contribute to this as well.

The number one reason I buy a mech keyboard is for the typing experience. I will never type on a normal keyboard anymore, e.g. laptop keyboards.
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 06 November 2015, 19:41:23 »
To me mechanical keyboards give me something awesome to type on as well as something to tinker with.


Offline thatsmrdoctortoyou

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 06 November 2015, 19:49:01 »
Overall typing experience which in my opinion includes (in no particular order):
1. Size of the keyboard - I rarely use the numpad so a 60% fits my need the majority of the time allowing more room for activities!!!
2. Feel of the switches - consistency across the board, more noticeable actuation point vs. rubberdome, ability to have different feeling switches on different boards.
3. Sound - I love the sound of mechanical keyboards, especially that one switch can sound completely different with different keycap material/sculpture.
4. Ability to customize - keycaps, switches, cases, artisans, etc., etc., etc. 

Offline umeboshi

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 02:45:05 »
Feel and sound of the board.  Having a choice of TKL or smaller also helps with comfort (mouse location).  Downside is the number of different types of boards/switches out there to try and suppressing the urge to get every single one of them...

Offline absyrd

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 03:47:33 »
I get a much smaller footprint on my desk using a HHKB. I also like how close my mouse is to my home position. Then I have the very subjective enjoyment of oneness with plastic case mounted cup rubber. Finally, I enjoy the thud and thock as I bottom out any and every switch I've ever tried, with this being the softest and most pleasant landing.
My wife I a also push her button . But now she have her button push by a different men. So I buy a keyboard a mechanicale, she a reliable like a Fiat.

Offline kurplop

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #27 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 05:10:42 »
If there's one benefit, it's the sheer amount of customization options with common discrete switches. Tuning switches, replacing keycaps… or building keyboards with custom layouts.

I agree.  While I prefer the feel of mechanical switches, I think that I could be happy with many any different RD switches if I could use them in a configuration and the physical placement of my choosing.

Offline strict

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #28 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 06:56:12 »
Enjoyment. If I were a mechanic for a living I would not be using Pittsburgh tools from Harbor Freight, I would be buying nice, premium Snap-On tools. Similarly, I spend 8 hours a day at work typing so I want to use something that has a premium feel that I enjoy.

Second is size. I'm a TKL die-hard, it lets me have my mouse closer to my keyboard so I'm not reaching as far.

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Offline Belfong

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #29 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 09:21:58 »

Keyfeel. Sound. The pleasure and interest of collecting a variety of them.
I’m of the same opinion. It’s the enjoyment of both the feeling and sound. Which is the reason I like Blues, BS and Topre. They are all tactile and they give out distinct sound.
 

Offline Bol0Aa

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 09:35:08 »
Thanks for your answers.

I thought that speed would be the most important factor, while it seems that the most important factor in general (based on all of your replies) seems to be the feel and comfort. I conclude that mechanical keyboard are more of a collection and luxury item than a tool that does better its job (I thought that they were the later).

Offline yowaffle

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #31 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 09:39:16 »
Aside from how great it feels, I also love using something that's mine at work. If I'm going to be working 40+ hours a week sitting in front of a computer its comforting to use my own keyboard :D
V60 [MQC] | KC60 [Zealiostotles] | Leopold FC660c [Topre] |  Ducky Shine 4 [MX Brown] | MiniVan [Zealios]

Offline Dongulator

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #32 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 09:39:49 »
Comfort for sure. Working with sql most of the day and night I need a comfortable setup.

Offline davkol

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #33 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 09:54:46 »
I thought that speed would be the most important factor, while it seems that the most important factor in general (based on all of your replies) seems to be the feel and comfort. I conclude that mechanical keyboard are more of a collection and luxury item than a tool that does better its job (I thought that they were the later).
Typing speed is mostly irrelevant in this day.

If a keyboard lasts longer or doesn't fatigue/injure the user as much, it *is* doing its job better. (Keep in mind, that I don't say "mechanical" keyboards satisfy that in general.)

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #34 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 10:00:05 »
No matter what anyone says, it's a question of what you (not others) prefer.  I just like my keyboard because it's a great experience to me.  I suppose I am in a niche in a niche.  I don't know if that makes any sense to anyone, but I am content with what I have.

Offline Bol0Aa

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #35 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 10:09:00 »
I thought that speed would be the most important factor, while it seems that the most important factor in general (based on all of your replies) seems to be the feel and comfort. I conclude that mechanical keyboard are more of a collection and luxury item than a tool that does better its job (I thought that they were the later).
Typing speed is mostly irrelevant in this day.

I disagree. For the most intellectually trivial tasks, like writing forum posts in geekhack or a normal chat, typing speed is the limiting factor. If you type faster, you can do more in the same time, the same in less time, or something in between. Common wisdom is that life is "nowdays" more busy that it "used to be"; presumably referring to the scale of decades; I am slightly skeptical of that claim. If that is true, then it is a factor that contributes to making typing speed more important.

If a keyboard lasts longer or doesn't fatigue/injure the user as much, it *is* doing its job better. (Keep in mind, that I don't say "mechanical" keyboards satisfy that in general.)

I agree with the first part regarding the user's health. I disagree with the second part regarding durability: If it lasts 1.5 times a much as a typical keyboard but it costs 5 times as much, it's doing its job worser, because benefit is scaled sublinearly with cost; and from what I have read, this seems to be usually the case with mechanical keyboards.

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #36 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 10:13:11 »
I agree with the first part regarding the user's health. I disagree with the second part regarding durability: If it lasts 1.5 times a much as a typical keyboard but it costs 5 times as much, it's doing its job worser, because benefit is scaled sublinearly with cost; and from what I have read, this seems to be usually the case with mechanical keyboards.

What keyboards are you referring to?  I believe I am typing on a keyboard made on May 21, 1993.

Offline tofgerl

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #37 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 10:37:22 »
Very interesting question. For me it started with the feel, then the sound became an issue when I discovered blues. Then Topre, and feel again.
And all through the visuals have been important. Not the lights, I can't stand the RGB thing, and even at home with the lights off and watching a movie while playing EU4 I don't need backlighting, but the caps. Right now I only have DSA Eve that I'm really happy with, but I have Alps Dolch lying around waiting for the GB to ship, and I've got both Carbon and Round 5a ordered - and looking down I just feel better looking at a keyboard I think looks good than one Jony Ive thinks looks good.

But now that I'm moving into making my own keyboards, strictly 60%, I'm discovering the possibilities of TMK. Macros are just the start of it. You can make each Shift key give you a { or } when you press it without pressing each key. You can make Space your FN key (SpaceFN ftw!). You can literally make every single key on the keyboard (up to 32) a different FN-layer with all the other 60 keys individual functions such as advanced macros or keyboard layouts.

If you're learning Dvorak but want to keep Qwerty just in case, you can change it with any key combination in you can think of, including holding Q and typing werty.

Now that's Custom!

Offline zslane

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #38 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 10:43:00 »
Aside from how great it feels, I also love using something that's mine at work. If I'm going to be working 40+ hours a week sitting in front of a computer its comforting to use my own keyboard :D

Yes! I didn't think to mention that earlier but it is definitely a factor for me as well.

Where I work, our workspaces are miniscule and there is barely any way to personalize such a small amount of space. Having a unique keyboard helps me feel like that space is mine, and sets it apart a bit from the uniform and non-distinct workspaces around me.

Oh, and while typing speed is not highly valued in the visual fx/animation domain I work in, as a TD I spend my entire day coding, and as a touch-typist since junior high, I need a keyboard that doesn't impede my flow. A cheap rubberdome can't compete with a quality mechanical in that regard.

Now, I prefer full ANSI 104-key boards (except with my iPad where I use a Pok3r) and interestingly I found that the numpad puts the mouse in a location where my right hand naturally falls by virtue of the position and spacing of the arm rests on my chair. If I had a TKL, there just would be a numpad-spaced gap, so I might as well have a full-sized keyboard with 17 more beautiful SA keys to enjoy.

Offline davkol

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #39 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 10:43:25 »
I thought that speed would be the most important factor, while it seems that the most important factor in general (based on all of your replies) seems to be the feel and comfort. I conclude that mechanical keyboard are more of a collection and luxury item than a tool that does better its job (I thought that they were the later).
Typing speed is mostly irrelevant in this day.

I disagree. For the most intellectually trivial tasks, like writing forum posts in geekhack or a normal chat, typing speed is the limiting factor. If you type faster, you can do more in the same time, the same in less time, or something in between. Common wisdom is that life is "nowdays" more busy that it "used to be"; presumably referring to the scale of decades; I am slightly skeptical of that claim. If that is true, then it is a factor that contributes to making typing speed more important.
Speech recognition combined with text expansion, or stenography can absolutely destroy the fastest typists.

Meanwhile, *typist* as an occupation is scarce nowadays, precisely because we have copypasta, speech recognition, OCR etc.

If a keyboard lasts longer or doesn't fatigue/injure the user as much, it *is* doing its job better. (Keep in mind, that I don't say "mechanical" keyboards satisfy that in general.)

I agree with the first part regarding the user's health. I disagree with the second part regarding durability: If it lasts 1.5 times a much as a typical keyboard but it costs 5 times as much, it's doing its job worser, because benefit is scaled sublinearly with cost; and from what I have read, this seems to be usually the case with mechanical keyboards.
Better yet, many members are typing on keyboards made in early 90's or 80's.

Also, durability or the possibility of repairs isn't about price per se; it has environmental and social consequences as well.

Offline zslane

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #40 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 10:48:12 »
Traditional office typists may be a dying breed, but software coders are (still) a growing breed, and no amount of speech recognition, OCR, or copy/paste is going to help write complex code, with all the unusual syntactical nuances and the profusion of "odd" punctuation and formatting that goes with it.

Offline davkol

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #41 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 10:51:19 »
Developers do very little typing in actuality, esp. compared to interaction with the interface, and the dumb work is slowly being replaced by automation.

Offline zslane

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #42 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 11:04:42 »
Maybe it's domain dependent. I write Python code in a rather conventional GUI text editor all day. My fingers spend more time on the keycaps than they do on the mouse (another reason why mouse position isn't very critical to my work). Anyone who writes lots of code for a living will have the same experience as me. We aren't a small category of keyboard users by any means.

Offline davkol

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #43 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 11:31:36 »
Well, there's documentation and communication for sure. But programming itself? There *should be* thinking involved, the coding phase doesn't generally consist of particularly linear typing either (autocomplete, snippets, editing) and stuff like debugging or deployment is pretty far from "just typing" too.

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Offline tofgerl

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #45 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 11:49:03 »
The only time I use a mouse while coding is if I'm googling something I'm too stupid to figure out on my own. I navigate with the keyboard, I look up documentation in Dash with my keyboard, I move through the filesystem with my keyboard, I run tests with my keyboard, I restart servers with my keyboard, and most of the time I'm coding with my keyboard.

If you can't type and think at the same time you're not a programmer, you're a typist. If you can't program without a mouse you're not programming, you're using a wizard.
« Last Edit: Sat, 07 November 2015, 11:51:38 by tofgerl »

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Offline keshley

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #47 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 12:10:12 »
I like to liken it to a steering wheel. Will a leather wrapped steering wheel make you a better driver? No, but it sure feels a lot nicer! Also, a properly maintained mechanical or capacitive keyboard will last a lot longer than a cheap rubber dome.
  
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Offline Bol0Aa

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #48 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 12:12:15 »
Speech recognition combined with text expansion, or stenography can absolutely destroy the fastest typists.
The point here is whether typing speed is relevant. I gave an argument for why it is.

Now, whether one can achieve higher speeds with a stenograph a different issue: it is about the best device to type fast, not whether it is relevant to do so. I do not dispute that using a stenograph can be faster than a traditional keyboard, but they also have many downsides: they require special hardware (a n-key rollover keyboard can be used, but that still is special as typical keyboards do not have this feature).

Speech recognition is more limited than a stenograph and it is very cumbersome. Either it is noisy and goes against privacy (which may or may not be required) or requires uncomfortable special hardware (a "stenomask"). In most cases where a keyboard is used, speech recognition can only complement but not replace the keyboard, due to the relatively high error rate of the former and because keyboard shortcuts are very cumbersome to enter (that is it, if they are allowed by the speech recognition system in the first place).

So the concussion is that stenographs and voice recognition systems are not an universal substitute for keyboards. Specifically, if you are not going to use a stenograph or voice recognition system, then the fact that they may be faster is a moot point.

Meanwhile, *typist* as an occupation is scarce nowadays, precisely because we have copypasta, speech recognition, OCR etc.
Indeed, meaning that almost everybody does his own typing himself, instead of having somebody else do that for him. That is an obstacle for specialization and a further reason of why stenographs are unlikely to become widespread (It pays better for a specialized typist to go though the hassle of learning to use a stenotype and purchase the required hardware than to somebody that just types as part of his activities).

Better yet, many members are typing on keyboards made in early 90's or 80's.

Also, durability or the possibility of repairs isn't about price per se; it has environmental and social consequences as well.
That is right, and those environmental and social consequences are worth examining. I can not comment much in that regard, but I can note that the environmental friendliness that a more durable keyboard may have is countered or possibly reversed if its user constantly consumes more goods and services just for the sake of customization (like custom keycaps). Remember that the environmental cost is not only the materials that compose the final goods, but also intermediate consumption, packaging, transport, and the environmental consequences of the extraction and processing of the raw materials.

As for the social consequences, I am not sure of what you are talking about. Could you please elaborate?. Maybe you are referring to the common idea that consumption creates (more frequently, preserves) jobs; however, for that matter, if one doesn't spends money in an expensive keyboard, one is going to spend it in something else that also generates economical activity.

Developers do very little typing in actuality, esp. compared to interaction with the interface, and the dumb work is slowly being replaced by automation.
I agree. I do not work as a programmer, but I sometimes write computer programs. I notice that I spend more time only thinking than typing (and thinking), and bear in mind that I think while I type. I conjecture that this is the rule rather than the exception except for intellectualy trivial tasks (see what I wrote above). If you really type that much, to the point where typing speed is your limiting factor, then you must be writing something trivial in a very inefficient way (maybe manually unrolling loops without using copy and paste or kill and yank). Also see http://xahlee.info/kbd/how_many_keystrokes_programers_type_a_day.html.
« Last Edit: Sat, 07 November 2015, 12:30:19 by Bol0Aa »

Offline zslane

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Re: What do you get from using a mechanical keyboard (speed, comfort, health)?
« Reply #49 on: Sat, 07 November 2015, 12:36:36 »
The only time I use a mouse while coding is if I'm googling something I'm too stupid to figure out on my own. I navigate with the keyboard, I look up documentation in Dash with my keyboard, I move through the filesystem with my keyboard, I run tests with my keyboard, I restart servers with my keyboard, and most of the time I'm coding with my keyboard.

If you can't type and think at the same time you're not a programmer, you're a typist. If you can't program without a mouse you're not programming, you're using a wizard.

This.

I've been programming computers for nearly 35 years. I literally do it in my sleep (which I can tell you is annoying as hell). I design software in my head, mostly, and implement in a top-down, stepwise refinement style where the final product evolves as I go. I work very fast, and so I am able to go through a great many iterations of implementing, testing, debugging, and refining in the same amount of time it takes most of my fellow programmers to reach the point of testing their design for the first time. A good keyboard that facilitates flow state is incredibly valuable.