Mini usb keyboards

[di3gopa]

Just curious, why manufactures are still using mini usb interfaces when we have a lot of new/better/more available interfaces? Since we are using mech keyboards we also need to use vintage interfaces? lol

[BlueNalgene]

What better interfaces are you referring to?  I agree that USB isn't the best, as I'm not a fan of the closed protocol.  PS/2 is more than sufficient.  The only downside is the lack of support in newer and smaller devices.

The keyboard doesn't need a fancy connection.  The HID scan rates are quite slow, and not much information is transmitted through to the computer.  USB is mostly used for compatibility's sake.  It is the de facto standard.  Until something else is settled on as being universally available on all hardware, I suspect it won't change.

If you are talking about Bluetooth, that has its own set of problems.  I, for one, am unable to use Bluetooth at work because of the significant RF interference around my toys.

[di3gopa]

Nah i am talking about stuff like micro-usb, there are so many cable replacement options vs mini-usb which is harder to find everyday. I know mini-usb is more than enough but it is just not widely used anymore.

[BlueNalgene]

Is there really a functional difference between mini and micro? The only real difference between the standards seems to be the cycle count.  I've read the standards on them, and I can't seem to find any explanations of the method used to test this.  As such, I'm not convinced it is a legitimate concern.  Sources, such as this stack exchange post suggest that the problem may exist in the lab setting, but not in normal use.  The usb micro connectors are more prone to physical damage.

That said, there is no reason to not progress to the more modern micro standard.  There is also no real drive to switch either.

Edit: source of my claims that there was no reference for the <10k cycle study from the Micro USB 1.01 specs.

1 Introduction
1.1 General
USB has become a popular interface for exchanging data between cell phone and portable devices. Many
of these devices have become so small it is impossible to use standard USB components as defined in the
USB 2.0 specification. In addition the durability requirements of the Cell Phone and Portable Devices
market exceed the specifications of the current interconnects. Since Cell Phones and other small Portable
Devices are the largest market potential for USB, this specification is addressing this very large market
while meeting all the requirements for electrical performance within the USB 2.0 specification.
1.2 Objective of the Specification
The purpose of this document is to define the requirements and features of a Micro-USB connector that will
meet the current and future needs of the Cell Phone and Portable Devices markets, while conforming to the
USB 2.0 specification for performance, physical size and shape of the Micro-USB interconnect.
This is not a stand-alone document. Any aspects of USB that are not specifically changed by this
specification are governed by the USB 2.0 Specification and USB On-The-Go Supplement.
1.3 Intended Audience/Scope
Cell phone and Portable Devices have become so thin that the current Mini-USB does not fit well within the
constraints of future designs. Additional requirements for a more rugged connector that will have durability
past 10,000 cycles and still meet the USB 2.0 specification for mechanical and electrical performance was
also a consideration. The Mini-USB could not be modified and remain backward compatible to the existing
connector as defined in the USB OTG specification.

The subtext seems to be that the change is mostly due to size constraints of cell phones, which makes sense.  However, that does not imply necessity for keyboard applications.

[suicidal_orange]

Personally I much prefer mini to micro due to the ease of seeing if it's the right way up and the fragility of micro (you don't need a fancy measuring tool to see the metal is thinner on the cable end, not to mention the surface mount sockets being easily damaged and not easily fixed) but there's money to be saved by using the smaller connector so manufacturers will surely notice soon

[MeltingTeeth]

CoolerMaster uses Micro-USB.

[SpAmRaY]

CoolerMaster uses Micro-USB.

Except where they went completely sideways and used a full size connector on the XT.

[suicidal_orange]

CoolerMaster uses Micro-USB.

Except where they went completely sideways and used a full size connector on the XT.

How random, type A or B?

[hwood34]

CoolerMaster uses Micro-USB.

Them and WASD are the only ones I know that do micro

[trizkut]

CoolerMaster uses Micro-USB.

Except where they went completely sideways and used a full size connector on the XT.

How random, type A or B?

A.

[SpAmRaY]

CoolerMaster uses Micro-USB.

Except where they went completely sideways and used a full size connector on the XT.

How random, type A or B?

@trizkut ninaj'ed me, it's so awkward it makes me not want to use mine.

[suicidal_orange]

A-A... now there's a weird cable!  I have a beige one still factory folded in it's twisty wire thing somewhere, never found a use for it.

@trizkut ninaj'ed me, it's so awkward it makes me not want to use mine.

It's a fullsize board though so you're not going to carry it round, can't you find a desk to hide the cable under?  Or use a right angle adaptor so it runs along the back?  Or buy a replacement connector but don't use half the strain relief (again, it's not going anywhere) so it's not so big and ugly?  Or even better - open it up, swap in a mini connector and use sugru to fill the hole and secure the socket.  Big connectors means big solder pads, should be pretty easy

[Coreda]

> Mini USB
> vintage

lol. If it's just the connector that you're referring to it still terminates to USB, and most boards come with cables included anyway. So changing connectors would effectively make no difference when something is just going to be plugged in long term. 

PS/2 is more than sufficient.  The only downside is the lack of support in newer and smaller devices.

Not hot-swappable, either. Also no USB hub option possibility.

[BlueNalgene]

PS/2 is more than sufficient.  The only downside is the lack of support in newer and smaller devices.

Not hot-swappable, either. Also no USB hub option possibility.

Good point.  I forgot about hot-swapping being a necessity for some.

[VinnyCordeiro]

I do hope that USB type C connectors gets popular fast. The electric current it can deliver will make LED lighting trivial and more powerful than ever.

[Melvang]

I do hope that USB type C connectors gets popular fast. The electric current it can deliver will make LED lighting trivial and more powerful than ever.

I have not read up on the C yet.  Would you happen to have a link for it?

Also in respect to mini vs micro, I have yet to have a mini cable or plug fail.  On the micro side of things, well over half of my cables have issues staying physically plugged in, and bout a third quit working completely.

[Myk!]

My Cougar Attack 2 still on mini usb port

[di3gopa]

i remember having a blackberry with a mini usb and constantly buying new cables and even replacing the the female connector on the cellphone. And i have micro-usb cables that I use everyday many times a day to charge my cellphone, i think is all related to the quality of the connector and how frequent you use them. Considering this is a keyboard even if you have to plug/unplug it once a week (which is a lot) a good micro usb cable should be fine.

[VinnyCordeiro]

I do hope that USB type C connectors gets popular fast. The electric current it can deliver will make LED lighting trivial and more powerful than ever.

I have not read up on the C yet.  Would you happen to have a link for it?

Also in respect to mini vs micro, I have yet to have a mini cable or plug fail.  On the micro side of things, well over half of my cables have issues staying physically plugged in, and bout a third quit working completely.

Type C connectors are reversible and can handle up to 3A at 5V. That's way bigger than the actual 500mA we are restricted to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_Type-C

(USB 3.1 standard have even 20V, 5A specification, but I believe this is only for power applications, not for data. Still need to read the standard.)

[seville57]

CoolerMaster uses Micro-USB.

Ducky RGB YOTG/One also use Micro-USB.

I had to buy 4 new Pexon sleeved Micro-USB cables for my Ducky RGB YOTG k- board.

My Ducky Shine 2/3/4 k-boards have  Mini-USB.

[Infrared]

I think they use it just for the fact that micro is really fragile and it doesn't make as much sense to switch.

[shibataken]

I always seem to break my micro cables so mini usbs are more durable for me!

[ddot]

On the mini variation, the tension spring is on the socket, but with the micro, it got moved to the plug.  The theory goes that if the spring wears out, it's easier to swap in a new cable rather than solder in a new socket.

[MeltingTeeth]

CoolerMaster uses Micro-USB.

Ducky RGB YOTG/One also use Micro-USB.

I had to buy 4 new Pexon sleeved Micro-USB cables for my Ducky RGB YOTG k- board.

My Ducky Shine 2/3/4 k-boards have  Mini-USB.

Did not know Ducky did too.

[1swt2gs]

My WASD Code V2 TKL uses micro as well. Kind of annoying considering I have so many nice MINI cables!

One good thing about Micro Cable is that its the same cable I can use to charge my Galaxy!

[maladat]

Type C connectors are reversible and can handle up to 3A at 5V. That's way bigger than the actual 500mA we are restricted to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_Type-C

(USB 3.1 standard have even 20V, 5A specification, but I believe this is only for power applications, not for data. Still need to read the standard.)

USB 3.1 includes USB Power-Delivery 2.

Power-Deliver 2 defines a standard for varying the power supplied over the power supply wire in a USB cable.

The standard defines 5 profiles:
Profile 1: 5V at up to 2A (this is basically what most USB is already)
Profile 2: 5V @ 2A, 12V @ 1.5A
Profile 3: 5V @ 2A, 12V @ 3A
Profile 4: 5V @ 2A, 12V and 20V @ 3A
Profile 5: 5V @ 2A, 12V and 20V @ 5A

There's only one power wire, so only one voltage can be supplied at a time.

Basically, when you plug a PD-compliant USB cable into a PD-compliant power-supplying device, the cable can report to the device which profile it supports (this communication happens over the power supply wire). (To help avoid confusion, PD-compliant cables are REQUIRED to have a PD logo on them.)

And then when you plug a power-consuming device in, the power-supplying device and the power-consuming device can talk over the power wire and decide what the power supply should be, and can vary it on the fly (and actually, which device is supplying and which is consuming can change on the fly, too).

The way the profiles work, and power-supplying device of a given profile can support a power-consuming device of its own profile or lower.

The power wires don't carry any data (other than the power negotiation), but they also don't involve the normal USB data connection at all. You can have a single USB 3.1, PD profile 5 cable supplying 20V@5A and also carrying data at the same time.

Note that all of this is completely separate from the USB Type C connector specification. USB Type C does not have to support USB 3.1 or USB Power-Delivery 2, and USB 3.1 does not have to use USB Type C connectors.

It's going to be really nice when USB 3.1 and USB Type C are widely adopted enough to become the norm.

[jonathanyu]

so....mini usb is outdated?
micro usb is still a really new thing to me. 

[maladat]

There isn't really a significant difference between mini USB and micro USB.

Mini USB has more durable plugs.

Micro USB has more durable sockets.

Micro USB is a little thinner so it is better for really thin devices.

There isn't any difference in the data rates, protocols, power capacity, etc.

[di3gopa]

There isn't really a significant difference between mini USB and micro USB.

Mini USB has more durable plugs.

Micro USB has more durable sockets.

Micro USB is a little thinner so it is better for really thin devices.

There isn't any difference in the data rates, protocols, power capacity, etc.

There is a difference, with micro-usb you can get cables basically on every corner

[maladat]

USB Mini is definitely more common at this point, but I can't think of a place off the top of my head that I've seem USB Micro cables for sale but not USB Mini.

[ddot]

While I probably have more mini cables lying around, most of my recent acquisitions have been of the micro variety.  Off the top of my head, I’ve got a new micro with my last 2 (non Apple) phones and one with my GPS.

[davkol]

When I look around, there are miniUSB ports only on my 8-year-old Nokia phone/tablet (and that's not even for charging) and 9-year-old Motorola dumbphone, a couple of old USB hubs (that I never unplug) and an old Chinese portable headamp… and a bunch of keyboards. Meanwhile, everything else (basically all newer phones, tablets, DAPs etc.) is microUSB. I lend/borrow microUSB cables in school/conferences/… all the time.

It sucks hard; I've even experienced a keyboard miniUSB cable failure and then I was stuck with my laptop's worn-out keyboard for several days, because there were no spare miniUSB cables anywhere.