Author Topic: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)  (Read 17140 times)

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Offline shibataken

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #50 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 14:11:27 »
I had an ex who was a vegetarian...ate fish...ate turkey on thanksgiving....yea...lol

Offline demik

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #51 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 14:36:48 »
I had an ex who was a vegetarian...ate fish...ate turkey on thanksgiving....yea...lol

Obviously she had commitment problems! She is an ex after all.
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Offline Booper

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #52 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 14:39:48 »
I had an ex who was a vegetarian...ate fish...ate turkey on thanksgiving....yea...lol

Eats fish and turkey?! That's not a vegetarian at all! :p
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Offline mobbo

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #53 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 14:48:52 »
I had an ex who was a vegetarian...ate fish...ate turkey on thanksgiving....yea...lol

Eats fish and turkey?! That's not a vegetarian at all! :p

What's your stance on shellfish  :p
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Offline Booper

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #54 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 15:00:51 »
I had an ex who was a vegetarian...ate fish...ate turkey on thanksgiving....yea...lol

Eats fish and turkey?! That's not a vegetarian at all! :p

What's your stance on shellfish  :p

Vegetarians don't eat any meat. Shellfish included! If you eat fish/seafood, you are technically pescatarian. A lot of pescatarians just say they are vegetarian because they think it's easier, but that just makes it so vegetarians are ALWAYS asked "well what about fish!?" But it's not a big deal. If someone identifies as vegetarian but eats meat once or twice a year, I'm not going to be a d*ck about it or anything!

Ha. My parents STILL ask me every time I go home if I eat fish/shrimp and I always have to remind them nooo, I do not. They live on a farm and growing up we always had a cow slaughtered for meat for the year and went fishing/hunting pretty often so fried fish/steak/deer/hamburger meat was always on the menu. They still can't fathom how I don't wither away and die. Even when I show them all the delicious food I eat.  ;D
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Offline mobbo

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #55 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 15:07:30 »
I had an ex who was a vegetarian...ate fish...ate turkey on thanksgiving....yea...lol

Eats fish and turkey?! That's not a vegetarian at all! :p

What's your stance on shellfish  :p

Vegetarians don't eat any meat. Shellfish included! If you eat fish/seafood, you are technically pescatarian. A lot of pescatarians just say they are vegetarian because they think it's easier, but that just makes it so vegetarians are ALWAYS asked "well what about fish!?" But it's not a big deal. If someone identifies as vegetarian but eats meat once or twice a year, I'm not going to be a d*ck about it or anything!

Ha. My parents STILL ask me every time I go home if I eat fish/shrimp and I always have to remind them nooo, I do not. They live on a farm and growing up we always had a cow slaughtered for meat for the year and went fishing/hunting pretty often so fried fish/steak/deer/hamburger meat was always on the menu. They still can't fathom how I don't wither away and die. Even when I show them all the delicious food I eat.  ;D

Yeah, I suppose it depends on your reasons for vegetarianism as well. I have met people that call themselves "vegetarians" but will eat shellfish - perhaps it's less tiresome for them to categorize themselves as such when explaining to other people. But I also think that they are primarily motivated by the ethical argument for vegetarianism and for some reason mistreatment of shellfish (or the question of their sentience, etc.) doesn't fall on their radar  :p

I've met others that are vegetarian simply because they don't like the taste or texture of meat. Although I cannot for the life of me understand this, I find it to be a much more compelling argument for some reason  :))
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #56 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 15:11:15 »
Booper, what's your stance on eggs? I've been eating like 80% vegetarian lately but I have eggs a lot. And I still love meat but I just wanted to try and easy healthier

Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #57 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 15:22:40 »
But I also think that they are primarily motivated by the ethical argument for vegetarianism and for some reason mistreatment of shellfish (or the question of their sentience, etc.) doesn't fall on their radar  :p

Sounds like they're just being shellfish.

Sorry, I had to

Offline Hexterdude

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #58 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 15:23:09 »
But I also think that they are primarily motivated by the ethical argument for vegetarianism and for some reason mistreatment of shellfish (or the question of their sentience, etc.) doesn't fall on their radar  :p

Sounds like they're just being shellfish.

Sorry, I had to

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Offline mobbo

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #59 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 15:30:39 »
But I also think that they are primarily motivated by the ethical argument for vegetarianism and for some reason mistreatment of shellfish (or the question of their sentience, etc.) doesn't fall on their radar  :p

Sounds like they're just being shellfish.

Sorry, I had to

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Offline Booper

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #60 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 15:55:32 »
I had an ex who was a vegetarian...ate fish...ate turkey on thanksgiving....yea...lol

Eats fish and turkey?! That's not a vegetarian at all! :p

What's your stance on shellfish  :p

Vegetarians don't eat any meat. Shellfish included! If you eat fish/seafood, you are technically pescatarian. A lot of pescatarians just say they are vegetarian because they think it's easier, but that just makes it so vegetarians are ALWAYS asked "well what about fish!?" But it's not a big deal. If someone identifies as vegetarian but eats meat once or twice a year, I'm not going to be a d*ck about it or anything!

Ha. My parents STILL ask me every time I go home if I eat fish/shrimp and I always have to remind them nooo, I do not. They live on a farm and growing up we always had a cow slaughtered for meat for the year and went fishing/hunting pretty often so fried fish/steak/deer/hamburger meat was always on the menu. They still can't fathom how I don't wither away and die. Even when I show them all the delicious food I eat.  ;D

Yeah, I suppose it depends on your reasons for vegetarianism as well. I have met people that call themselves "vegetarians" but will eat shellfish - perhaps it's less tiresome for them to categorize themselves as such when explaining to other people. But I also think that they are primarily motivated by the ethical argument for vegetarianism and for some reason mistreatment of shellfish (or the question of their sentience, etc.) doesn't fall on their radar  :p

I've met others that are vegetarian simply because they don't like the taste or texture of meat. Although I cannot for the life of me understand this, I find it to be a much more compelling argument for some reason  :))

Haha. I can understand that argument. I used to love meat and I was meat crazy! But the last few times I ate it before throwing in the towel, I couldn't help but identify the texture as being "fleshy" which grossed me out. As for shellfish, idk, did you know lobsters can easily live to be 100+ years old!? I guess I just think things like "Who am I to be responsible for ending the life of something that's been around so long just so that I can have a crappy lunch at red lobster!?"

I read a book "Consider the Lobster and other essays" by David Foster Wallace that does a really good job pondering the logic/ethics about killing lobsters. Basically, he presents the argument that they are HIGHLY sensitive to temperature to a point that they migrate to stay in the proper temperature of water, and yet we boil them to death even though they clearly exhibit signs of trying to escape their discomfort, just to satisfy our palette for a few minutes. He's not saying not to eat them though, he just brings to light the idea that even though it's just a lobster, it was still a living breathing thing with actions and deserves some thoughtfulness.

Booper, what's your stance on eggs? I've been eating like 80% vegetarian lately but I have eggs a lot. And I still love meat but I just wanted to try and easy healthier

Eggs are hard because eggs themselves are vegetarian, but if you are in it for ethical/environmental factors, you have to acknowledge that the situation around chickens and eggs is no better than the situation with chickens used for meat (unless you have a friend with a chicken coupe!) They are all pretty much locked in tiny cages and essentially tortured all their lives.

So, that being said. I still eat eggs occasionally. I have some guilt about it because I know it's selfish to eat eggs since I could easily do without and it's hypocritical in some sense since I claim to refrain from meat mostly for ethical/environmental reasons. I've been confronted by many vegans for being a hypocrite and they aren't wrong. But I love to cook and eggs/butter are essential in a lot of recipes I make and substitutes yield sub-par results. Also, I live in a place that isn't really conducive to a vegetarian lifestyle. I pretty much can't eat out and can barely even find tofu around here so vegan cheeses and egg substitutes aren't practical. Also, a lot of imitation foods contain things like palm oil which is part of a whole other f**ked up situation so it can be like trading one evil for another.

I don't know. I may lean vegan in time but for now, I think it's all about finding a balance somewhere that satisfies your appetite and your convictions.

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Offline Booper

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #61 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 15:59:17 »
But I also think that they are primarily motivated by the ethical argument for vegetarianism and for some reason mistreatment of shellfish (or the question of their sentience, etc.) doesn't fall on their radar  :p

Sounds like they're just being shellfish.

Sorry, I had to


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Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #62 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 16:02:51 »
Booper, what's your stance on eggs? I've been eating like 80% vegetarian lately but I have eggs a lot. And I still love meat but I just wanted to try and easy healthier

Eggs are hard because eggs themselves are vegetarian, but if you are in it for ethical/environmental factors, you have to acknowledge that the situation around chickens and eggs is no better than the situation with chickens used for meat (unless you have a friend with a chicken coupe!) They are all pretty much locked in tiny cages and essentially tortured all their lives.

So, that being said. I still eat eggs occasionally. I have some guilt about it because I know it's selfish to eat eggs since I could easily do without and it's hypocritical in some sense since I claim to refrain from meat mostly for ethical/environmental reasons. I've been confronted by many vegans for being a hypocrite and they aren't wrong. But I love to cook and eggs/butter are essential in a lot of recipes I make and substitutes yield sub-par results. Also, I live in a place that isn't really conducive to a vegetarian lifestyle. I pretty much can't eat out and can barely even find tofu around here so vegan cheeses and egg substitutes aren't practical. Also, a lot of imitation foods contain things like palm oil which is part of a whole other f**ked up situation so it can be like trading one evil for another.

I don't know. I may lean vegan in time but for now, I think it's all about finding a balance somewhere that satisfies your appetite and your convictions.

What about free range chicken eggs?  I just started buying those for the same ethical reasons - I'm pretty disappointed with the chicken industry, to say the least.

But I also think that they are primarily motivated by the ethical argument for vegetarianism and for some reason mistreatment of shellfish (or the question of their sentience, etc.) doesn't fall on their radar  :p
Sounds like they're just being shellfish.

Sorry, I had to
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Hehehehe.  :D

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #63 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 16:06:59 »
I've never gotten into food as a statement of anything. I'm more about taste and health.

* CPTBadAss shrug

But if you wanna talk about free range, there's apparently loose controls on that. You could have a door on the coop and a little yard but still have the chickens in the coop and I believe that still counts as free range. It's not the company's fault if they don't wander outside.

Offline mobbo

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #64 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 16:07:09 »
I had an ex who was a vegetarian...ate fish...ate turkey on thanksgiving....yea...lol

Eats fish and turkey?! That's not a vegetarian at all! :p

What's your stance on shellfish  :p

Vegetarians don't eat any meat. Shellfish included! If you eat fish/seafood, you are technically pescatarian. A lot of pescatarians just say they are vegetarian because they think it's easier, but that just makes it so vegetarians are ALWAYS asked "well what about fish!?" But it's not a big deal. If someone identifies as vegetarian but eats meat once or twice a year, I'm not going to be a d*ck about it or anything!

Ha. My parents STILL ask me every time I go home if I eat fish/shrimp and I always have to remind them nooo, I do not. They live on a farm and growing up we always had a cow slaughtered for meat for the year and went fishing/hunting pretty often so fried fish/steak/deer/hamburger meat was always on the menu. They still can't fathom how I don't wither away and die. Even when I show them all the delicious food I eat.  ;D

Yeah, I suppose it depends on your reasons for vegetarianism as well. I have met people that call themselves "vegetarians" but will eat shellfish - perhaps it's less tiresome for them to categorize themselves as such when explaining to other people. But I also think that they are primarily motivated by the ethical argument for vegetarianism and for some reason mistreatment of shellfish (or the question of their sentience, etc.) doesn't fall on their radar  :p

I've met others that are vegetarian simply because they don't like the taste or texture of meat. Although I cannot for the life of me understand this, I find it to be a much more compelling argument for some reason  :))

Haha. I can understand that argument. I used to love meat and I was meat crazy! But the last few times I ate it before throwing in the towel, I couldn't help but identify the texture as being "fleshy" which grossed me out. As for shellfish, idk, did you know lobsters can easily live to be 100+ years old!? I guess I just think things like "Who am I to be responsible for ending the life of something that's been around so long just so that I can have a crappy lunch at red lobster!?"

I read a book "Consider the Lobster and other essays" by David Foster Wallace that does a really good job pondering the logic/ethics about killing lobsters. Basically, he presents the argument that they are HIGHLY sensitive to temperature to a point that they migrate to stay in the proper temperature of water, and yet we boil them to death even though they clearly exhibit signs of trying to escape their discomfort, just to satisfy our palette for a few minutes. He's not saying not to eat them though, he just brings to light the idea that even though it's just a lobster, it was still a living breathing thing with actions and deserves some thoughtfulness.

Great book! My ex-girlfriend made me read it :P

It's so unfair though...I was raised on the East-Coast of Canada...lobster's in my blood.

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Offline Booper

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #65 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 16:18:48 »
I've never gotten into food as a statement of anything. I'm more about taste and health.

* CPTBadAss shrug

But if you wanna talk about free range, there's apparently loose controls on that. You could have a door on the coop and a little yard but still have the chickens in the coop and I believe that still counts as free range. It's not the company's fault if they don't wander outside.

It's not really a statement? I'd say it is an important part of my mental and emotional health. I don't agree with the way meat gets to me, and I don't agree with the idea that an animal needs to die for me to eat, so I just don't eat meat! :)

There are a lot of health benefits too though if that's your focus! And a lot of food can be delicious and meat free.

And yea. It's a system that is designed so that you can't really win. A lot of people try to support humane treatment of animals by purchasing free range and organic and stuff, but at the end of the day those are usually just labels. It's terrible, because people are clearly willing and WANT to buy humanely acquired meat, but it's actually not easy to get.


Great book! My ex-girlfriend made me read it :P

It's so unfair though...I was raised on the East-Coast of Canada...lobster's in my blood.


Nice! I love his writing <3

I know a lot of people who love lobster! I never had much of a taste for it though. I loved fish/sushi, but never really was big on shellfish.
« Last Edit: Tue, 10 November 2015, 16:25:32 by Booper »
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Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #66 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 16:26:41 »
I've never gotten into food as a statement of anything. I'm more about taste and health.

* CPTBadAss shrug

But if you wanna talk about free range, there's apparently loose controls on that. You could have a door on the coop and a little yard but still have the chickens in the coop and I believe that still counts as free range. It's not the company's fault if they don't wander outside.

It's not a statement for me.  I don't like the way the animals are treated before becoming my food, so I want to help fix that.  Why is that bad?

Hmm.  Time to do some research on the place I get my eggs from, I guess!  :)

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #67 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 16:32:56 »
I never said it was bad? It got defensive fast lol. I meant that in more of a general way. For example, a band I was listening to last night has a shirt that says "Go Veg"; like it's a badge of honor. I don't really agree with some of the reasons people go about with some things such as vegetarianism or religion. That's all I meant. Most importantly, do you. I'm just poorly explaining some of my opinions.

Offline Jokrik

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #68 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 16:36:14 »
I would gladly turn vegetarian if I can have the kind of food booper have ;)
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Offline scubaste

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #69 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 16:36:56 »
I would gladly turn vegetarian if I can have the kind of food booper have ;)

Can confirm, worked for me.  :p  :p  :p

Offline demik

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #70 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 16:38:59 »
I would gladly turn vegetarian if I can have the kind of food booper have ;)

Can confirm, worked for me.  :p  :p  :p
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Offline scubaste

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #71 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 16:42:36 »
I would gladly turn vegetarian if I can have the kind of food booper have ;)

Can confirm, worked for me.  :p  :p  :p
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I laughed way too hard at that. This forum only supports one eyed blinking.  ;)

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #72 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 16:42:45 »
I would gladly turn vegetarian if I can have the kind of food booper have ;)

Seriously....her IG page makes me want to delete all my food pics in sadness. I'm going to go eat my feelings now.

Offline Air tree

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #73 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 16:42:46 »
I'm finally done moving and in mississippi, send food pls.

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #74 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 16:48:30 »
I dunno. Sometimes I just make an entire rack of ribs and just tuck in bare handed and shirtless like some ravenous caveman. I get sauce all over me and then jump in the shower after, it really makes you feel primal which is exactly what I need to feel sometimes.

Offline Booper

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #75 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 17:12:17 »
I'm finally done moving and in mississippi, send food pls.

Really!? You moved TO mississippi? I'll feed you! MS meetup!? lol

I dunno. Sometimes I just make an entire rack of ribs and just tuck in bare handed and shirtless like some ravenous caveman. I get sauce all over me and then jump in the shower after, it really makes you feel primal which is exactly what I need to feel sometimes.

HA! This is you in my head now -

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Offline dustinhxc

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Re: Sorry, booper!
« Reply #76 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 17:22:40 »

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #77 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 17:34:56 »
I dunno. Sometimes I just make an entire rack of ribs and just tuck in bare handed and shirtless like some ravenous caveman. I get sauce all over me and then jump in the shower after, it really makes you feel primal which is exactly what I need to feel sometimes.

HA! This is you in my head now -

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:)) That's not too far off from what I look like after my 'private time' with a rack of baby backs.

Offline Joey Quinn

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Re: Sorry, booper!
« Reply #78 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 17:50:12 »
Carrots are treats! Found that out when I had this guy -

Show Image


Neji!!!!

116951-0

I need another rabbit.  :)

People in the 1980s, in general, were clearly just better than we are now in every measurable way.

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Offline dustinhxc

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #79 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 17:51:56 »
I had a rabbit named maxx, he was around for a long time. :D Dark grey with white.

Offline trizkut

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #80 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 17:55:57 »
I never said it was bad? It got defensive fast lol. I meant that in more of a general way. For example, a band I was listening to last night has a shirt that says "Go Veg"; like it's a badge of honor. I don't really agree with some of the reasons people go about with some things such as vegetarianism or religion. That's all I meant. Most importantly, do you. I'm just poorly explaining some of my opinions.





I remember watching food inc in my health class in college, it's really depressing seeing those chickens walking around in piss and ****, unable to fly with their genetically-modified larger breasts.  The situations the farmers are put in, where they feel trapped and obligated to keep doing it because of their debt and low pay.  Obviously the documentary has a clear agenda behind it, so take all information with a grain of salt, but it does shed light on some things that need to be brought to the public eye.


Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #81 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 18:12:11 »
Just to play devil's advocate. And I should say I've got nothing against booper or anyone else. Like I said, do you.

Let's say that I wanted to go vegetarian because of moral reasons. I disagree with how meat is harvested and I disapprove of the current state of the industry. The only issue is....there's issues with how crops and vegetables are harvested too. How many farms have good benefits and look after their American-born colleagues well? Maybe there are some. But unfortunately there are farms that use migrant labor. Does every farm pays good wages, health insurance and ESL classes if their laborers are from Mexico or Central America? Does it feel great to live in the USA illegally? Knowing you can get deported at any moment? Knowing people openly talk **** about you?

I've got moral issues with that too. The way I see it, you're playing a balancing act. I think it's ****ed up how the food system is all around and there's no easy answers.
« Last Edit: Tue, 10 November 2015, 18:14:43 by CPTBadAss »

Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #82 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 18:34:39 »
I never said it was bad? It got defensive fast lol. I meant that in more of a general way. For example, a band I was listening to last night has a shirt that says "Go Veg"; like it's a badge of honor. I don't really agree with some of the reasons people go about with some things such as vegetarianism or religion. That's all I meant. Most importantly, do you. I'm just poorly explaining some of my opinions.

The fact you made the comment after my comment made me think that was the implication.  My bad.  :)

I agree that flaunting it, much like flaunting most things, is silly.  I'm not even vegetarian.  :P  I just have a few key things I care more about and have made changes in my life to accommodate.  Frankly, to avoid all sorts of "conflict"-free products is basically impossible at this point.  But if I can accomplish that pretty easily for a particular food I eat, I figure "why not?"  I'm not under the impression that I'm saving the world.  ;)

And "do you" is a good mindset to have, but I have no issues with people calling me out on something like this.  After all, if I truly am wasting my time/effort/money for something with no true benefit, why wouldn't I want to know that?  :3

Just to play devil's advocate. And I should say I've got nothing against booper or anyone else. Like I said, do you.

Let's say that I wanted to go vegetarian because of moral reasons. I disagree with how meat is harvested and I disapprove of the current state of the industry. The only issue is....there's issues with how crops and vegetables are harvested too. How many farms have good benefits and look after their American-born colleagues well? Maybe there are some. But unfortunately there are farms that use migrant labor. Does every farm pays good wages, health insurance and ESL classes if their laborers are from Mexico or Central America? Does it feel great to live in the USA illegally? Knowing you can get deported at any moment? Knowing people openly talk **** about you?

I've got moral issues with that too. The way I see it, you're playing a balancing act. I think it's ****ed up how the food system is all around and there's no easy answers.

Great point.  It's easy to forget that.  Thank you Mr Devil.

Offline nubbinator

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #83 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 21:13:08 »
I remember watching food inc in my health class in college, it's really depressing seeing those chickens walking around in piss and ****, unable to fly with their genetically-modified larger breasts.  The situations the farmers are put in, where they feel trapped and obligated to keep doing it because of their debt and low pay.  Obviously the documentary has a clear agenda behind it, so take all information with a grain of salt, but it does shed light on some things that need to be brought to the public eye.

If people knew half the **** that farm meat experienced there would be far more vegetarians or people who ate less meat.  I'd love to see people eating less meat, for people to know and/or experience the process by which meat is obtained, and for people to press for more humane treatment of animals.

Offline swimmingbird

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #84 on: Tue, 10 November 2015, 21:14:26 »
I remember watching food inc in my health class in college, it's really depressing seeing those chickens walking around in piss and ****, unable to fly with their genetically-modified larger breasts.  The situations the farmers are put in, where they feel trapped and obligated to keep doing it because of their debt and low pay.  Obviously the documentary has a clear agenda behind it, so take all information with a grain of salt, but it does shed light on some things that need to be brought to the public eye.

If people knew half the **** that farm meat experienced there would be far more vegetarians or people who ate less meat.  I'd love to see people eating less meat, for people to know and/or experience the process by which meat is obtained, and for people to press for more humane treatment of animals.

but bacon

Offline Booper

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #85 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 00:27:57 »
Just to play devil's advocate. And I should say I've got nothing against booper or anyone else. Like I said, do you.

Let's say that I wanted to go vegetarian because of moral reasons. I disagree with how meat is harvested and I disapprove of the current state of the industry. The only issue is....there's issues with how crops and vegetables are harvested too. How many farms have good benefits and look after their American-born colleagues well? Maybe there are some. But unfortunately there are farms that use migrant labor. Does every farm pays good wages, health insurance and ESL classes if their laborers are from Mexico or Central America? Does it feel great to live in the USA illegally? Knowing you can get deported at any moment? Knowing people openly talk **** about you?

I've got moral issues with that too. The way I see it, you're playing a balancing act. I think it's ****ed up how the food system is all around and there's no easy answers.

Hmm, initially I would say that I fail to see the relevancy of your argument as it pertains to vegetarianism? It would seem that you are implying that by cutting out meat, I am somehow ignoring or even contributing to the situation with migrant workers and I don't think that's the case. The plight of migrant workers is largely a political/human rights issue that needs to be addressed. That being said, there are many people in this country who don't get benefits, good wages, health insurance or anything. Not just migrant farm workers. Inequality, racism and immigration are a problem in this country in general and it's something I am also concerned about.

However, I would argue that by default, being a vegetarian does actually help the plight of migrant laborers more than harm because 1) In the current agriculture system, the US government promotes large corporation style farming which by it's nature neglects the welfare of people, plants and animals. 2) a large portion of agriculture in our country is subsidized and actually goes to feeding livestock. So the ****ty corporation corn farms hire workers and pay next to nothing.

Basically, it seems to me like NOT eating meat helps contribute, in whatever small way, to a cut back in inhumane animal treatment and exploitation of farmers, land, and workers while eating it doesn't really do anything but contribute to the whole f**ked up system.


--

Anyway! I hope none of this reads as defensive or anything! I welcome discussion about this sort of thing and am fine with conflicting points of view. You know I <3 you CPT!

I remember watching food inc in my health class in college, it's really depressing seeing those chickens walking around in piss and ****, unable to fly with their genetically-modified larger breasts.  The situations the farmers are put in, where they feel trapped and obligated to keep doing it because of their debt and low pay.  Obviously the documentary has a clear agenda behind it, so take all information with a grain of salt, but it does shed light on some things that need to be brought to the public eye.

If people knew half the **** that farm meat experienced there would be far more vegetarians or people who ate less meat.  I'd love to see people eating less meat, for people to know and/or experience the process by which meat is obtained, and for people to press for more humane treatment of animals.

Nubs gets it! <3

I agree, if people weren't so disconnected from the process by which that steak and chicken gets to the plate.. there would probably be a lot more vegetarians. I've witnessed a calf grow up from a cute, playful baby to being on my plate and I've gotta say, steak just wasn't as appealing when I could recall petting and feeding that hunk of meat as a calf.
omniclectic@gmail.com if you need me!


Offline baldgye

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #86 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 03:14:38 »
lolPETA


I've lived around farms most of my adult life and I don't see a problem with eating meat. Humans are more humain(?) than most wild animals that hunt for food. It's fine to be against types of mass produced farm meats, but I don't quite see how boycotting all meat changes that. Best way I can see to make real change happen is to vote with your money and make it economically less viable to farm in a way that makes animals lives a misery.
By not eating meat you essentially cut yourself out of the only way you can change how animals are farmed for meat, least in my opinion.

Offline cmadrid

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #87 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 09:06:21 »
My wife's parents have a farm with cows on it.. sometimes for Christmas they have a cow slaughtered and divvy up the meat, yum

Offline shibataken

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #88 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 09:16:59 »
I had an ex who was a vegetarian...ate fish...ate turkey on thanksgiving....yea...lol

Obviously she had commitment problems! She is an ex after all.

Haha, yea she was the type that rode the wave of whatever was popular in the inner circles of NYC.  She was a late in life vegetarian who used to scarf down steak like no one's business but had a calling when she watched some documentary lol.   

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #89 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 10:46:30 »
More
Just to play devil's advocate. And I should say I've got nothing against booper or anyone else. Like I said, do you.

Let's say that I wanted to go vegetarian because of moral reasons. I disagree with how meat is harvested and I disapprove of the current state of the industry. The only issue is....there's issues with how crops and vegetables are harvested too. How many farms have good benefits and look after their American-born colleagues well? Maybe there are some. But unfortunately there are farms that use migrant labor. Does every farm pays good wages, health insurance and ESL classes if their laborers are from Mexico or Central America? Does it feel great to live in the USA illegally? Knowing you can get deported at any moment? Knowing people openly talk **** about you?

I've got moral issues with that too. The way I see it, you're playing a balancing act. I think it's ****ed up how the food system is all around and there's no easy answers.

Hmm, initially I would say that I fail to see the relevancy of your argument as it pertains to vegetarianism? It would seem that you are implying that by cutting out meat, I am somehow ignoring or even contributing to the situation with migrant workers and I don't think that's the case. The plight of migrant workers is largely a political/human rights issue that needs to be addressed. That being said, there are many people in this country who don't get benefits, good wages, health insurance or anything. Not just migrant farm workers. Inequality, racism and immigration are a problem in this country in general and it's something I am also concerned about.

However, I would argue that by default, being a vegetarian does actually help the plight of migrant laborers more than harm because 1) In the current agriculture system, the US government promotes large corporation style farming which by it's nature neglects the welfare of people, plants and animals. 2) a large portion of agriculture in our country is subsidized and actually goes to feeding livestock. So the ****ty corporation corn farms hire workers and pay next to nothing.

Basically, it seems to me like NOT eating meat helps contribute, in whatever small way, to a cut back in inhumane animal treatment and exploitation of farmers, land, and workers while eating it doesn't really do anything but contribute to the whole f**ked up system.


--

Anyway! I hope none of this reads as defensive or anything! I welcome discussion about this sort of thing and am fine with conflicting points of view. You know I <3 you CPT!

lolPETA


I've lived around farms most of my adult life and I don't see a problem with eating meat. Humans are more humain(?) than most wild animals that hunt for food. It's fine to be against types of mass produced farm meats, but I don't quite see how boycotting all meat changes that. Best way I can see to make real change happen is to vote with your money and make it economically less viable to farm in a way that makes animals lives a misery.
By not eating meat you essentially cut yourself out of the only way you can change how animals are farmed for meat, least in my opinion.


I think you got the gist of my point booper. I see where you're coming from but I also think you're trading one evil for another by being vegetarian. I think baldgye has the idea closer to me. If I cut myself out of the meat-eating buyer pool, it continues as it usually does. If I instead choose to buy meat raised and slaughtered in the way I think is good, then I vote with my dollars. But then you can make the argument that you're voting with dollars as well. So yeah, it's definitely not an easy thing to figure out.

Like you said, it's not easy getting food raised or grown in a way I find acceptable. The last CSA I was in folded halfway through the growing season. The farmer said she wasn't making any money off it and needed to cut her losses.

And I agree with your views on racism and inequality.

If people knew half the **** that farm meat experienced there would be far more vegetarians or people who ate less meat.  I'd love to see people eating less meat, for people to know and/or experience the process by which meat is obtained, and for people to press for more humane treatment of animals.

Nubs gets it! <3

I agree, if people weren't so disconnected from the process by which that steak and chicken gets to the plate.. there would probably be a lot more vegetarians. I've witnessed a calf grow up from a cute, playful baby to being on my plate and I've gotta say, steak just wasn't as appealing when I could recall petting and feeding that hunk of meat as a calf.

I agree with this completely. If you're going to eat meat, you need to understand where it comes from. I've never personally slaughtered any animals for meat but I want to so I can understand better. The family raised me to try to understand and we still talk about it a lot.

<3 you too Booper ^__^

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #90 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 10:57:35 »
My wife's parents have a farm with cows on it.. sometimes for Christmas they have a cow slaughtered and divvy up the meat, yum
Same here, we also get the occasional pig from the in-laws to and the occasional deer or turkey depending on hunting season.

That meat is so much better than stuff from a store.

Growing up my grandad had chicken, quail and rabbits that were raised to be eaten.

Also growing up squirrels, possums, snakes, turtles or any other animal we could find where eaten, although I only really remember the fried rattlesnake and turtle stew.

Offline iri

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #91 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 10:59:16 »
UK seems obsessed with responsible farming.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline Booper

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #92 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 11:55:17 »

I also think you're trading one evil for another by being vegetarian



Kinda curious about the logic there? What evil am I trading for?


lolPETA


I've lived around farms most of my adult life and I don't see a problem with eating meat. Humans are more humain(?) than most wild animals that hunt for food. It's fine to be against types of mass produced farm meats, but I don't quite see how boycotting all meat changes that. Best way I can see to make real change happen is to vote with your money and make it economically less viable to farm in a way that makes animals lives a misery.
By not eating meat you essentially cut yourself out of the only way you can change how animals are farmed for meat, least in my opinion.

Well, first, I'd say I'm not so much "boycotting meat" as, I don't like meat so I don't buy it. I'm not going to buy meat from a local farmer if I don't want meat.

The problem with supporting even local meat farmers is that I don't believe people need to eat meat in most circumstances and I personally do not enjoy eating it. So sustainable, ethical meat farming or not, I don't think ANY slaughter is good. I don't care if people want to have a few chickens that they take care of and eventually eat occasionally or something if that's what they need to do to feed their family in the most effective way.. but yea. I think 90% of meat eating is unnecessary and a result of years of subsidies + media that makes it so ingrained in our society. 

I am "voting with my dollars" - Not supporting local meat farmers doesn't take away from the idea of making factory farming less viable by not funneling money to that system. I support local veggie growers as much as possible so my dollars are contributing, in theory, to expanding the growing of vegetables instead of so much meat/corn in general.

I agree sustainable, ethical farming is better IF there must be farming, but I don't see why there must be meat farming at all.

And yea... I've heard it all... food chain, things die, humans need meat, animals kill animals, etc etc.. yea. But - I am a human and what makes humans cool is that they have interests and personalities and the ability to choose what they do and what they like/don't like. I don't like eating meat, for MANY reasons, and it doesn't negatively affect my health - so why would I?



Humans are more humain(?) than most wild animals that hunt for food


I disagree that humans are more humane. Animals can be brutal, yea, but only humans can be inhumane since we are the only ones able to feel compassion.


My wife's parents have a farm with cows on it.. sometimes for Christmas they have a cow slaughtered and divvy up the meat, yum
Same here, we also get the occasional pig from the in-laws to and the occasional deer or turkey depending on hunting season.

That meat is so much better than stuff from a store.

Growing up my grandad had chicken, quail and rabbits that were raised to be eaten.

Also growing up squirrels, possums, snakes, turtles or any other animal we could find where eaten, although I only really remember the fried rattlesnake and turtle stew.

Same here as well!
Grew up in a cabin on a farm in Kentucky and my parents raise a cow to slaughter for meat every year. I used to eat the hell out of all types of meat.

Like I said, the thought of the calf I used to feed and pet now being on my plate is one of the many things that made me start to not like meat! But, I understand not everyone feels that way. I always really loved animals growing up and often felt kinda sad eating meat, like when my brother would bring home rabbits he killed and we'd have them for dinner.  :(


More
I remember watching food inc in my health class in college, it's really depressing seeing those chickens walking around in piss and ****, unable to fly with their genetically-modified larger breasts.  The situations the farmers are put in, where they feel trapped and obligated to keep doing it because of their debt and low pay.  Obviously the documentary has a clear agenda behind it, so take all information with a grain of salt, but it does shed light on some things that need to be brought to the public eye.

If people knew half the **** that farm meat experienced there would be far more vegetarians or people who ate less meat.  I'd love to see people eating less meat, for people to know and/or experience the process by which meat is obtained, and for people to press for more humane treatment of animals.

but bacon

I often feel like talking with meat eaters about vegetarianism is like talking to religious people. I present logical and reasonable arguments for my point of view and get countered with "YEA, BUT THE BIBLE BACON!"
omniclectic@gmail.com if you need me!


Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #93 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 12:28:08 »
All this talk of people raising chickens makes me wish I did that.  :)

* HoffmanMyster needs to buy a house

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #94 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 12:29:03 »
All this talk of people raising chickens makes me wish I did that.  :)

* HoffmanMyster needs to buy a farm

FTFY

Offline baldgye

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #95 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 12:50:21 »
Not all people feel compassion, towards animals this can be especially true.
I have read stories of people talking about how you can live totally healthy lives without needing to eat meat and that we as a species should be above the slaughter of animals for food as we can get nutrients and minerals from other sources, which makes sense and is fair enough.
I'd love to live in a world where all we have to eat are pills and bars that contain all the nutrients we need and are synthetically made, but I think that time is a long way off and the reason is the same reason I worry about veganism and all it's variants.
I'm not aware the impact of long term generational vegatarianism or veganism has been tracked/studied etc etc... what are the long term affects of generations not eating meat on the human body and the effect on there children and how they develop?

The human body evolved this way because of it's diet and I'm more than happy to have our diets change so we can continue to become more advanced and more developed, but I personally am worried of the effects of such a diet in the long term and think that before that research can be done, for the majority of people aiming for sustainable, humane farming of animals is the way to go.



>my mum kept chickens, they are stupid creatures but have surprisingly strong personalities (as I imagine most do).

Offline Lanx

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #96 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 14:21:00 »
I thought i had a HARD fast rule when it came to eating meat, i'd never be able to eat an animal i used to have as a pet. Until my honeymoon in Italy in the Southern Coast of Positano we trekked for 2 hours up a cliff and onto sketchy buses to La Tagliata, they bring out a smorshgasborg of meats, and i had to eat everything, whelp there was rabbit on there. My wife and i had 2 cute little rabbits for years, oh well. 2 hours up a cliff! i had to do it.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Sorry, booper!
« Reply #97 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 14:30:45 »
I have been a vegetarian for most of my life. I went vegetarian for moral reasons when I was 14. Later, I just think of meat to be disgusting and that is the main reason why I can never go back. When I think of meat, I think of disease: mad cow, salmonella, nigella, parasites, excess hormones.

I do eat eggs and dairy though, and I think that I will never give that up. You can't have pizza without cheese and you can't make a sponge-cake without eggs. (I have yet to try "No-Egg" powder...)
I buy organic free-range eggs and dairy products exclusively.

There is a myth that vegetarians need to be extra careful to get enough protein - that is not a problem because there is a lot of protein in a lot of foodstuffs. We don't need to eat beans at every meal!
No, our stone-age ancestors were never completely vegetarian, but they certainly did not eat as much meat as  modern Western man does.
It is a proven fact that people in the Western world eat too much meat overall and that high meat consumption is responsible for many diseases. Most people who are meat-eaters wouldn't live better lives if they cut down on it, and on especially red meat and processed meat. I read the other day that average meat consumption per person in the Western world has risen by one third since 1980 .. and it isn't as if people didn't eat enough meat back then.

Industrial meat production depends too much on antibiotics - meat farms being where you will find the most antibiotic-resistant bacteria. It has also been theorized that meat production was the source of bird flu, and most other forms of influenza.

Meat production also accounts for one quarter of all greenhouse gases... with beef being the worst meat.
BTW, most methane does not actually come out of the back of the cow, but from the front. That is because cows are ruminants - who regurgitate food to chew it some more. Mutton is also a bad meat for the climate because sheep are also ruminants, but there aren't as many sheep in the world as there are cows bred for slaughter.

Princess Luna/Nightmare Moon is best pony. You must get Des into this so I am not alone in MLP land.
It took me a while to see that it wasn't an octopus with wide-set eyes and a baby narwhal sitting on its head.  :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: Wed, 11 November 2015, 14:33:21 by Findecanor »
🍉

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Sorry, booper! (now vegetarian, vegan, and meat-lover discussion)
« Reply #98 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 14:31:25 »

I also think you're trading one evil for another by being vegetarian

Kinda curious about the logic there? What evil am I trading for?

If you're approaching vegetarianism from an ethical standpoint, in my opinion, you're trading animal welfare and responsible farming vs social issues such as migrant labor.
« Last Edit: Wed, 11 November 2015, 15:03:37 by CPTBadAss »

Offline iri

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Re: Sorry, booper!
« Reply #99 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 15:36:38 »
Most people who are meat-eaters wouldn't live better lives if they cut down on it, and on especially red meat and processed meat.
OK, no need to stop eating meat then.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury