Unicomp Keyboard.

[Ragwolfe]

I have just found out that unicomp make "model m"  style keyboards, I was wondering if anyone knew what they are like? Is the buckling spring switch on them as good as the model m's? Also does anyone know what type of NKRO they have? Thank you!


Edit : changed unicode to unicomp had a little brain derp

[phruitpie]

I think you mean Unicomp I don't own one, but I would assume they feel almost identical seeing as how Unicomp bought the rights to the buckling spring technology back in 1996. No NKRO from what I understand.

[0100010]

Unicomp I presume?  They are real Model Ms, which all Model Ms are 2KRO.  Best way to get a new Model M that supports USB.

[chyros]

Unicomp is the remainder of Lexmark's keyboard division, the company that made the Model M for IBM. Although a more modern version with thinner plates than IBM's older Model M versions, they are the same keyboard, with the same buckling springs.

Also, being a membrane keyboard, the Model M doesn't support NKRO; only 2KRO .

[Ragwolfe]

Unicomp is the remainder of Lexmark's keyboard division, the company that made the Model M for IBM. Although a more modern version with thinner plates than IBM's older Model M versions, they are the same keyboard, with the same buckling springs.

Also, being a membrane keyboard, the Model M doesn't support NKRO; only 2KRO .

Do you not think that they would have updated the design though?

[ctm]

Unicomp is the remainder of Lexmark's keyboard division, the company that made the Model M for IBM. Although a more modern version with thinner plates than IBM's older Model M versions, they are the same keyboard, with the same buckling springs.

Also, being a membrane keyboard, the Model M doesn't support NKRO; only 2KRO .

Do you not think that they would have updated the design though?

Quite unlikely I think. They have promised a TKL board years ago, but it's still "under development".

[fohat.digs]

Do you not think that they would have updated the design though?

They bought the Lexington, Kentucky, factory complete with all the equipment.

They are continuing to produce the same product as has been manufactured there for decades.

This is generally considered to be a blessing as well as a curse.

Buy the Unicomp, it is an excellent keyboard. You can get the "classic" configuration as well as some very slightly updated case styles.

[Snowdog993]

I have just found out that unicomp make "model m"  style keyboards, I was wondering if anyone knew what they are like? Is the buckling spring switch on them as good as the model m's? Also does anyone know what type of NKRO they have? Thank you!


Edit : changed unicode to unicomp had a little brain derp

They are the same as a true Model M.  It's a nice keyboard.  They are 2KRO for what it's worth.
The "Classic" 101-key PS/2 version is the same as the original "42H1292".  You can also get the 103-key version which is the same as the classic with a Windows key between the left Ctrl and Alt keys and a Menu key between the right Alt and Ctrl keys.  Otherwise it is the same.  Some folks want to have the Windows and Menu keys.
To summarize, it's well worth it.  You should get the plain LED overlay too.  It makes the keyboard look great!
http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/LED (LED's on Top)

[phruitpie]

Unicomp is the remainder of Lexmark's keyboard division, the company that made the Model M for IBM. Although a more modern version with thinner plates than IBM's older Model M versions, they are the same keyboard, with the same buckling springs.

Also, being a membrane keyboard, the Model M doesn't support NKRO; only 2KRO .

Do you not think that they would have updated the design though?

Pretty sure they haven't. Only buckling spring with NKRO is the model f since it is a capacitive board. However it's only NKRO over ps2, unless you use Soarer's converter.

[chyros]

Unicomp is the remainder of Lexmark's keyboard division, the company that made the Model M for IBM. Although a more modern version with thinner plates than IBM's older Model M versions, they are the same keyboard, with the same buckling springs.

Also, being a membrane keyboard, the Model M doesn't support NKRO; only 2KRO .

Do you not think that they would have updated the design though?

If you mean with regards to the rollover; no, it simply doesn't work that way.

If you want a detailed explanation on how rollover works, check my F122 video review .

[rowdy]

Unicomp is the remainder of Lexmark's keyboard division, the company that made the Model M for IBM. Although a more modern version with thinner plates than IBM's older Model M versions, they are the same keyboard, with the same buckling springs.

Also, being a membrane keyboard, the Model M doesn't support NKRO; only 2KRO .

Do you not think that they would have updated the design though?

If you mean with regards to the rollover; no, it simply doesn't work that way.

If you want a detailed explanation on how rollover works, check my F122 video review .

That video is well worth watching anyway

[SamirD]

If you're after the 'feel' the Unicomp will definitely keep you happy.  If you want the build quality of the originals, find an original.  The keys/legends/etc just aren't in the same league as the originals.

[Tactile]

I have an IBM 122 key Model M from '89, an IBM 1391401 Model M from '91, and a Unicomp 122 key Model M from 2011. They all make me grin when I'm typing on them.

 

[SamirD]

I have an IBM 122 key Model M from '89, an IBM 1391401 Model M from '91, and a Unicomp 122 key Model M from 2011. They all make me grin when I'm typing on them.

 

That they do!  I'm already missing mine trying out cherry blues.

[rowdy]

If you're after the 'feel' the Unicomp will definitely keep you happy.  If you want the build quality of the originals, find an original.  The keys/legends/etc just aren't in the same league as the originals.

The only thing wrong with most of the originals is the plastic rivets falling off.  But this is easily fixed with a bolt mod, and then the keyboard should last for another 30 years.

[SamirD]

If you're after the 'feel' the Unicomp will definitely keep you happy.  If you want the build quality of the originals, find an original.  The keys/legends/etc just aren't in the same league as the originals.

The only thing wrong with most of the originals is the plastic rivets falling off.  But this is easily fixed with a bolt mod, and then the keyboard should last for another 30 years.

And this will also happen with a unicomp as they use the same attachment methodology.  I haven't found a rivet here or there to be of any consequence, but if it really bothers someone and they don't want to do a bolt-mod, unicomp can actually re-rivet a board.

[Snowdog993]

And this will also happen with a unicomp as they use the same attachment methodology.  I haven't found a rivet here or there to be of any consequence, but if it really bothers someone and they don't want to do a bolt-mod, unicomp can actually re-rivet a board.

Not exactly....

Scroll down to... What about Unicomp’s repair services?

http://phosphorglow.net/frequently-asked-questions/

[SamirD]

And this will also happen with a unicomp as they use the same attachment methodology.  I haven't found a rivet here or there to be of any consequence, but if it really bothers someone and they don't want to do a bolt-mod, unicomp can actually re-rivet a board.

Not exactly....

Scroll down to... What about Unicomp’s repair services?

http://phosphorglow.net/frequently-asked-questions/

That's only if you go for their website option of repair.  If you call and talk to them, they have a lot more flexibility to just fix what needs to be fixed.  I had called them about a plastic plate that has some cracked barrels.  They sell the plate, which is good, but then they went on to tell me that for me to repair it I would need to do a bolt mod or I could send it to them and they could re-rivet it.

[Snowdog993]

And this will also happen with a unicomp as they use the same attachment methodology.  I haven't found a rivet here or there to be of any consequence, but if it really bothers someone and they don't want to do a bolt-mod, unicomp can actually re-rivet a board.

Not exactly....

Scroll down to... What about Unicomp’s repair services?

http://phosphorglow.net/frequently-asked-questions/

That's only if you go for their website option of repair.  If you call and talk to them, they have a lot more flexibility to just fix what needs to be fixed.  I had called them about a plastic plate that has some cracked barrels.  They sell the plate, which is good, but then they went on to tell me that for me to repair it I would need to do a bolt mod or I could send it to them and they could re-rivet it.

Yeah.  Okay. 

Edit: Did you ask them how much it will cost you for this custom service?  I am sure it will cost much more than a standard service.  Possibly more than the keyboard.

[SamirD]

And this will also happen with a unicomp as they use the same attachment methodology.  I haven't found a rivet here or there to be of any consequence, but if it really bothers someone and they don't want to do a bolt-mod, unicomp can actually re-rivet a board.

Not exactly....

Scroll down to... What about Unicomp’s repair services?

http://phosphorglow.net/frequently-asked-questions/

That's only if you go for their website option of repair.  If you call and talk to them, they have a lot more flexibility to just fix what needs to be fixed.  I had called them about a plastic plate that has some cracked barrels.  They sell the plate, which is good, but then they went on to tell me that for me to repair it I would need to do a bolt mod or I could send it to them and they could re-rivet it.

Yeah.  Okay. 

Edit: Did you ask them how much it will cost you for this custom service?  I am sure it will cost much more than a standard service.  Possibly more than the keyboard.

May not be the best thing since the unicomp rivets seem to fall out more than regulars, but since I can't tell a difference on missing rivets, might not be an issue for me.

I vaguely recall that I did and it was the $30 service from what I recall, plate not included.

[djkib]

I own several IBM Model M keyboards, and have them all over the house. Nothing quite like the original.

I also own a Unicomp 104 key PS/2 keyboard I purchased about 5 years ago for about $100. I was completely underwhelmed with that keyboard. It was significantly lighter than ANY model M, and it never felt as "sturdy" or "solid" as a model m. So, I put it back in the box, and put it on a shelf.

A few weeks ago, I picked up two Model M terminal keyboards. On one, I did a teensy mod after a good cleaning. The other needed a bolt mod, due to the number of rivets that had broken. Much to my dismay, the barrel plate literally fell apart after removing the remaining rivet backs (r.i.p. 1392925...).

I decided to compare my Unicomp backing plate to the Model M backing plate... that is when I saw the reason why the Unicomp never felt quite right... the backing plate on the IBM was nearly twice as thick (to the naked eye - i did not measure it)!

You know where this is leading...

My unicomp is now in the process of getting a bolt mod and a new, shiny gold backing plate... The barrel plate from the unicomp lines up PERFECTLY with the old IBM backing plate.

I will probably post a new thread detailing the conversion in the near future...

My $0.02
Keith

[Snowdog993]

I own several IBM Model M keyboards, and have them all over the house. Nothing quite like the original.

I also own a Unicomp 104 key PS/2 keyboard I purchased about 5 years ago for about $100. I was completely underwhelmed with that keyboard. It was significantly lighter than ANY model M, and it never felt as "sturdy" or "solid" as a model m. So, I put it back in the box, and put it on a shelf.

A few weeks ago, I picked up two Model M terminal keyboards. On one, I did a teensy mod after a good cleaning. The other needed a bolt mod, due to the number of rivets that had broken. Much to my dismay, the barrel plate literally fell apart after removing the remaining rivet backs (r.i.p. 1392925...).

I decided to compare my Unicomp backing plate to the Model M backing plate... that is when I saw the reason why the Unicomp never felt quite right... the backing plate on the IBM was nearly twice as thick (to the naked eye - i did not measure it)!

You know where this is leading...

My unicomp is now in the process of getting a bolt mod and a new, shiny gold backing plate... The barrel plate from the unicomp lines up PERFECTLY with the old IBM backing plate.

I will probably post a new thread detailing the conversion in the near future...

My $0.02
Keith

Let's just say for the sake of my sanity, you are just going to use the Unicomp in the Unicomp case and use the 1392595 plate for the Unicomp.  Right?

[djkib]

That's exactly what i did... I used the IBM backing plate and the rubber mat (between the matrix and barrel plate). I have the bolt mod done (typing on it now), but have not finished re-assembling it... making sure all the keys work and the tension on the bolts is acceptable.

I don't think the IBM assembly will fit will fit in the unicomp case with the barrel plate attached to the backing plate. The unicomp barrel plate does not completely cover the backing plate. Also, my unicomp has the windows keys, so the barrel plate would not fit without cutting the "tabs" off the IBM cover - something I am loathe to do.

First impressions are success... Th feel is more stable, more like a true Blue. The sound is still not the same as an IBM, but I guess I am being picky. Different keys, like the shift keys, sound different when pressed.

Interestingly, when doing a bolt mod on a unicomp (at least this unicomp), I did not need any 2mm bolts - the "front" row (under the space bar) is the same thickness as the rest of the barrel plate, unlike the IBM, where the barrel plate covers the front edge of the backing plate.

I guess I will put the cover on and run this for a while. I am also considering buying a barrel plate for the the leftover parts, just for grins...

Keith

[1391406]

A Unicomp is no IBM manufactured Model M, but if you're solely interested in the typing feel rather than the quality of the keyboard itself then the former is comparable(albeit a tad more scratchy), in my opinion.

[axtran]

I recently purchased a Unicomp and had to return it--the build quality just got worse over time. I had purchased an all-black SpaceSaver in 2007 which already had a few deformed keycap stems. The recent purchase had a white spacebar (they didn't even mention that they no longer produce black spacebars). I recommend sticking to Model M's--the quality just isn't there with Unicomp.

[0100010]

I recently purchased a Unicomp and had to return it--the build quality just got worse over time. I had purchased an all-black SpaceSaver in 2007 which already had a few deformed keycap stems. The recent purchase had a white spacebar (they didn't even mention that they no longer produce black spacebars). I recommend sticking to Model M's--the quality just isn't there with Unicomp.

6.25x spacebar?  I bought a 7x black spacebar from them a couple weeks ago.

[Snowdog993]

I recently purchased a Unicomp and had to return it--the build quality just got worse over time. I had purchased an all-black SpaceSaver in 2007 which already had a few deformed keycap stems. The recent purchase had a white spacebar (they didn't even mention that they no longer produce black spacebars). I recommend sticking to Model M's--the quality just isn't there with Unicomp.

What did you recently purchase?

[ander]

Ragwolfe: We may have totally confused you by now. This is what happens when you ask geeks about the thing they're geekiest about. Everyone has something to contribute, often in great detail, and I'm afraid I'm no better.  :?)

I have a couple of Unicomp-made and IBM-made Model M's (Unicomps are Model M's, BTW; it's on the label), and frankly, I don't think you can go wrong with either one.

It's true that Unicomp's quality hasn't been entirely consistent. My first buckling-spring KB was a Unicomp I ordered new a couple of years ago. I was disappointed with the print quality—the letter and number keys were fine, but the text keys were fuzzy and off-center. It bugged me so much I ended up returning it. (Unicomp was quite pleasant about it; they have a complete satisfaction guarantee, and their customer service is great.)

And there was a period where some people complained their cases had become "creaky". I don't think it was a huge deal. They creaked only if you picked them up and flexed them, not while you used them. But because M's have always been so tank-like, I think it just surprised some people.

Nearly everyone seems to feel that Unicomp's quality is back up now. The photos I've seen of their new boards look great, with crisp, well-aligned printing. And I haven't heard anyone complain about creaky cases for some time.

You may get a slightly more solid feel from an original IBM, but that may be mostly the power of suggestion. They do weigh a bit more, but I think that has a minimal effect on how they feel. If the weight does have an effect, it can just as easily be a negative one; I've typed on some IBMs that felt too solid and stodgy.

Overall, you may find that how much a particular KB has been used, and how well it's been taken care of, determine how it feels more than who made it or how old it is.

If you do buy a vintage IBM, be sure it has a cable, or you'll have to buy one separately. (Unicomp's cables don't detach, so they don't get lost.)

Anyway, I'll try to sum up my take on it:

IBM Model M

Pros:

• More collector's value (especially the more unusual variations).
• Slightly heavier build (which may or may not affect feel, but which feels impressive when you pick it up, LOL).
• Owning a genuine artifact from computing history.
• Cheaper than a new Unicomp.

Cons:

• Will probably need some amount of cleaning—at minimum, removing and soaking keys. (But a used Unicomp probably will too.)
• If it has decades of grime, you'll probably want to clean inside the case, too (requires a special wrench—usually under $10—and can take a while, depending on how picky you are).
  
• May also need a bolt-mod, if too many plastic rivets have come loose (not especially complicated, but time-consuming to do right).
• Requires a converter ($2–3 for cable type, on eBay) to be used on USB.
• May be missing one or more keycaps. (The tops of IBM's two-piece key buttons are known to detach, esp. when surplus boards are handled carelessly.) Replacements are $1 each (or possibly free, if you know someone here who has some).

Unicomp Model M

Pros:

• On average, probably in better shape, since they're from only the last 10 years or so.
• Available in black as well as beige, which looks more modern. (Some black IBM M's were made, called M13s—but they also have trackpoints, which some people don't like; and their keys are surface-printed, not dyed, so their legends can wear off.)
• If you buy a new one:
     _ You're supporting a good company that's trying to maintain a good tradition.
     _ You won't have to bother removing and soaking the keys, which you'll probably want to do with any KB that's been seriously used.
     _ You'll get the thrill of receiving and unwrapping a shiny new keyboard (much cheaper than a new car, but almost as fun).
• USB-ready (if new or made in the last several years).

Cons:

• Construction and print quality has varied a bit. (If printing's important to you, check some close-up photos before buying.)
• New ones are pricier.

If you just want the pleasure of typing on a real buckling-spring KB, you don't care about famous logos, and you want one you can plug right in to USB and go, I wouldn't hesitate to spend the extra $30 or so on a new Unicomp.

If computing history appeals to you, and you think you may enjoy the project of cleaning up a fine older board, I'd go for an IBM (but be sure it works).

Hope this helps. – A.

[axtran]

I recently purchased a Unicomp and had to return it--the build quality just got worse over time. I had purchased an all-black SpaceSaver in 2007 which already had a few deformed keycap stems. The recent purchase had a white spacebar (they didn't even mention that they no longer produce black spacebars). I recommend sticking to Model M's--the quality just isn't there with Unicomp.

I recently tried to just buy the same thing again (all black SpaceSaver) and it was all black keys (some of them again not properly molded and that was just sad from a quality standpoint) and it had a super white spacebar. When I contacted them they sounded surprised that I didn't realize the spacebar was white, and there was no mention of it anywhere.

What did you recently purchase?

[Snowdog993]

I recently purchased a Unicomp and had to return it--the build quality just got worse over time. I had purchased an all-black SpaceSaver in 2007 which already had a few deformed keycap stems. The recent purchase had a white spacebar (they didn't even mention that they no longer produce black spacebars). I recommend sticking to Model M's--the quality just isn't there with Unicomp.

I recently tried to just buy the same thing again (all black SpaceSaver) and it was all black keys (some of them again not properly molded and that was just sad from a quality standpoint) and it had a super white spacebar. When I contacted them they sounded surprised that I didn't realize the spacebar was white, and there was no mention of it anywhere.

What did you recently purchase?

I believe I read that wrong.  Maybe you just got one that was bad.  I personally don't care much for the Spacesaver myself.  It seems that Unicomp got lazy and used the same chassis that they use on the EnduraPro.
Some people like them.

[ideus]

They have to make a modern kishsaver.

[0100010]

They have to make a modern kishsaver.

Show Image

Can never get enough of Clacks Micro M.  But it needs 1x modifiers added between the 1.5x keys on the bottom row.

[axtran]

They have to make a modern kishsaver.

Show Image

Man this is awesome! :) I'd totally buy it with the winkey modifiers added as 1U's in the bottom row.

[ideus]

I'd buy it too, if it not were a chimera.

[1391406]

And there was a period where some people complained their cases had become "creaky". I don't think it was a huge deal. They creaked only if you picked them up and flexed them, not while you used them. But because M's have always been so tank-like, I think it just surprised some people.

Nearly everyone seems to feel that Unicomp's quality is back up now. The photos I've seen of their new boards look great, with crisp, well-aligned printing. And I haven't heard anyone complain about creaky cases for some time.

The case creak is indicative of the quality of the clamshell cover material which, according to Neil Muyskens, was changed in 1999, and I doubt they've reverted back to IBM and Lexmark's previous recipe. The caps also feel a bit thinner and do have more flex as well. Sure, if all you care about is the typing experience, it probably doesn't matter, but if you're interested in the highest quality Model M ever made, there's no substitute for an IBM original.

[rowdy]

Another con for an original Model M is that many of them are not PC-compatible, and you will need a > $5 convertor like a Soarer's or similar.

[1391406]

Another con for an original Model M is that many of them are not PC-compatible, and you will need a > $5 convertor like a Soarer's or similar.

How much is an original Model M vs a new Unicomp, though?

[Snowdog993]

Another con for an original Model M is that many of them are not PC-compatible, and you will need a > $5 convertor like a Soarer's or similar.

How much is an original Model M vs a new Unicomp, though?

That's a good question.  Which Model M are we talking about?  There is no one "price".

[1391406]

Another con for an original Model M is that many of them are not PC-compatible, and you will need a > $5 convertor like a Soarer's or similar.

How much is an original Model M vs a new Unicomp, though?

That's a good question.  Which Model M are we talking about?  There is no one "price".

Original, ie. IBM manufactured (eg. circa 1987 - 1989). Of those, one in decent / good condition can be had for under $70.

[Snowdog993]

Another con for an original Model M is that many of them are not PC-compatible, and you will need a > $5 convertor like a Soarer's or similar.

How much is an original Model M vs a new Unicomp, though?

That's a good question.  Which Model M are we talking about?  There is no one "price".

Original, ie. IBM manufactured (eg. circa 1987 - 1989). Of those, one in decent / good condition can be had for under $65.

Okay.  I know IBM/Lexmark models.  There are so many, and you are generalizing.  Some are significantly more than that, some less.  It also depends on what you do with them after you obtain them.  A good example is the 1392595 terminal board I am using right now.  That could significantly double the price of getting it working.

Take that into serious consideration.

[Bromono]

They have to make a modern kishsaver.

Show Image

isn't there a group buy happening soon for brand new Kishsavers? Believe there is a post on here and Desk Authority.

[1391406]

Another con for an original Model M is that many of them are not PC-compatible, and you will need a > $5 convertor like a Soarer's or similar.

How much is an original Model M vs a new Unicomp, though?

That's a good question.  Which Model M are we talking about?  There is no one "price".

Original, ie. IBM manufactured (eg. circa 1987 - 1989). Of those, one in decent / good condition can be had for under $65.

Okay.  I know IBM/Lexmark models.  There are so many, and you are generalizing.  Some are significantly more than that, some less.  It also depends on what you do with them after you obtain them.  A good example is the 1392595 terminal board I am using right now.  That could significantly double the price of getting it working.

Take that into serious consideration.

Who claimed prices don't vary? And did anyone specify which Model M they were referring to in particular in this thread? Thus, I was referencing the general entry price for an original Model M. For the average user, I'd contend it's still cheaper (a pro) to purchase an adapter for an original Model M (eg. 1391401) in the $60 (or less) price range than it is to purchase a new Unicomp.

[Snowdog993]

Another con for an original Model M is that many of them are not PC-compatible, and you will need a > $5 convertor like a Soarer's or similar.

How much is an original Model M vs a new Unicomp, though?

That's a good question.  Which Model M are we talking about?  There is no one "price".

Original, ie. IBM manufactured (eg. circa 1987 - 1989). Of those, one in decent / good condition can be had for under $65.

Okay.  I know IBM/Lexmark models.  There are so many, and you are generalizing.  Some are significantly more than that, some less.  It also depends on what you do with them after you obtain them.  A good example is the 1392595 terminal board I am using right now.  That could significantly double the price of getting it working.

Take that into serious consideration.

Who claimed prices don't vary? And did anyone specify which Model M they were referring to in particular in this thread? Thus, I was referencing the general entry price for an original Model M. For the average user, I'd contend it's still cheaper (a pro) to purchase an adapter for an original Model M (eg. 1391401) in the $60 (or less) price range than it is to purchase a new Unicomp.

I understand this.  You have to remember that a lot of people are unfamiliar with IBM Model M keyboards and can easily be thinking they got a "great deal" on a Model M, when in fact they might have made the mistake of buying a terminal or otherwise internally damaged one.
They may look good in the pictures, but there may be more wrong with them that can be seen.
There is no argument.  I was just saying that the "bargain" you get, may not be such a bargain.

[1391406]

Another con for an original Model M is that many of them are not PC-compatible, and you will need a > $5 convertor like a Soarer's or similar.

How much is an original Model M vs a new Unicomp, though?

That's a good question.  Which Model M are we talking about?  There is no one "price".

Original, ie. IBM manufactured (eg. circa 1987 - 1989). Of those, one in decent / good condition can be had for under $65.

Okay.  I know IBM/Lexmark models.  There are so many, and you are generalizing.  Some are significantly more than that, some less.  It also depends on what you do with them after you obtain them.  A good example is the 1392595 terminal board I am using right now.  That could significantly double the price of getting it working.

Take that into serious consideration.

Who claimed prices don't vary? And did anyone specify which Model M they were referring to in particular in this thread? Thus, I was referencing the general entry price for an original Model M. For the average user, I'd contend it's still cheaper (a pro) to purchase an adapter for an original Model M (eg. 1391401) in the $60 (or less) price range than it is to purchase a new Unicomp.

I understand this.  You have to remember that a lot of people are unfamiliar with IBM Model M keyboards and can easily be thinking they got a "great deal" on a Model M, when in fact they might have made the mistake of buying a terminal or otherwise internally damaged one.
They may look good in the pictures, but there may be more wrong with them that can be seen.
There is no argument.  I was just saying that the "bargain" you get, may not be such a bargain.

In my experience, most people who visit this forum and are in the market for a Model M don't generally purchase anything labeled 'Model M' blindly. Yes, it does happen, but a vast majority of the time it seems people ask questions because they don't want to make a mistake. To a lot of members here, spending $50 - $100+ on a keyboard isn't necessarily a big deal, but in my experience a lot of new members of the community really want to be informed, and it's likewise important to them because of the money they feel they're spending in that price range. And for a regular in the community, chances are they're conversant enough with older Model M's to understand what they're getting into, and if they're not, I have every reason to believe they'd ask questions or do some research.

[fohat.digs]

In my experience, most people who visit this forum and are in the market for a Model M don't generally purchase anything labeled 'Model M' blindly.

After seeing a large forum with thousands of highly opinionated members and thousands of posts on a wide variety of keyboard-related topics, any reasonable person should recognize that they have entered a complex realm and that there is a lot of information to be found here. But I do accept the fact that there are striking differences of opinion that could be quite confusing.

Since I have a work bench and enjoy old stuff, I was happy to start with a dirty 20+ year old piece of gear, but for an ordinary consumer without the time, tools, or inclination to tinker, I still recommend a new Unicomp with warranty, Windows keys, and native USB.

[1391406]

Since I have a work bench and enjoy old stuff, I was happy to start with a dirty 20+ year old piece of gear, but for an ordinary consumer without the time, tools, or inclination to tinker, I still recommend a new Unicomp with warranty, Windows keys, and native USB.

It depends on what you value, in my opinion. In most cases I value quality of workmanship but that's me. If a Windows key and warranty are really important to you, then that'll probably hold sway. However, in my opinion, an original (1391401) Model M that's advertised as working probably doesn't need a warranty. From my perspective, I tend to think native USB vs. an adapter such as the Bluecube, Hagstrom, or orihalcon's is generally a non-issue, as well. That said, if you're specifically interested in a Model M that requires at least a modicum of time and effort to convert, chances are your interest in a Unicomp is secondary anyway. To each their own, of course.

[ander]

The case creak is indicative of the quality of the clamshell cover material which, according to Neil Muyskens, was changed in 1999, and I doubt they've reverted back to IBM and Lexmark's previous recipe...

As I mentioned, in the boards where it occurs, it doesn't happen when you're using it. As far as I know you must actually pick it up and flex it. It's beyond me why anyone even thought of doing that in the first place, or why it was supposed to be important. It's like complaining that your toaster doesn't bounce.

The caps also feel a bit thinner and do have more flex as well.

I've typed on half a dozen Unicomps from different periods—including one a friend ordered new a couple of months ago, one I ordered new about a year and a half ago (and returned because I didn't like the printing, described above), my 2009 BOS 122, and my 2006 GE/Marquette medical 101. And I've never experienced anything like what you've described.

These are PBT keys, not ABS like cheaper boards, right? What can possibly "flex" in an assembled IBM-style two-piece key?

And you say the caps feel "thinner"? When you're typing on them? How can you possibly determine the thickness of a cap firmly clipped to a stem? Or do you mean when you removed and examined them? You don't normally interrupt your typing to do that though, do you? That'd seem compulsive. I'm not a therapist of any kind, but it seems to me it'd be healthier to try to leave the caps on and not think about them so much.  :?)

Okay, I was too curious: I just called my friend in Vancouver, and he's removed and examined two-piece keys from his 2015 Ultra Classic and a 1989 Model M 122-key terminal board, compared them, and proclaimed them identical. And I believe him, as he's one of the most detail-oriented people I know (even more than some of you guys!). He couldn't imagine how they could be made to "flex", either. He offered to try squeezing one with pliers, but I said I was pretty sure that'd be beyond the scope of our discussion.

Sure, if all you care about is the typing experience, it probably doesn't matter, but if you're interested in the highest quality Model M ever made...

Dude, sorry, I'm not chuckling at you; I'm just enjoying the esoteric nature of the statement. ("esoteric: confined to and understandable to only an enlightened inner circle")

I'm glad we can agree they work equally well as, you know, keyboards —that being, after all, technically, what they are.

And while I see Unicomps and classic IBM M's as equally durable, even if Unicomps were slightly less robust, I don't know of any reason to think a Unicomp made in the last 9 years would prove less durable than an IBM from the '80s/'90s—which, assuming you're not paying $300 for a NIB one, is likely to have 10–20 years more use on it (probably full-time use, too, as BS boards were primarily for business back then).

So what aspect of "quality" remains? Sheer size and bulk? Well, I can't deny my grandfather's Lincoln Continental was "more car" than my Toyota compact. But stuff doesn't have to be as big and/or heavy to be just as good.

If you ask me, I think IBM and Lexmark lightened their plates over the years not because they were trying to skimp, but because they realized heavier plates were overkill and they were just wasting metal and paying unnecessary shipping. I think they realized people were typing on these things, not hurling them at track meets or using them to stop artillery shells.

And while you and I think classic Model M's are beautiful, let's face it: To most people, they look like something from a thrift store. Non-geeks who want buckling-spring boards probably appreciate the option of buying more modern-looking ones that aren't of such epic (and necessarily beige) proportions.

In other words, I think everyone's a winner. For the clack-loving, there are great options all around. IMHO, just the fact that Unicomp exists and is still pumping out Model M's, in this world so focused on cheapness and mediocrity, is a bit of a miracle.

[keshley]

This is an enthusiast forum, so a lot of people here are more than willing to tinker or use adapters. Most people are not. A lot of people who come to this forum asking questions disappear after a week or three. Which tells me they're not enthusiasts, and likely not the type who wants to tinker with their keyboard to get it to work.

Since these people don't stick around, the majority of posts on this forum are from enthusiasts. Which, as a forum, skews our view a lot.

I'm with fohat on this one. I'd recommend a Unicomp, just for the warranty alone, let alone other minor issues, to most people looking for the classic Model M. I'd only recommend an IBM Model M if they're wanting (not willing, wanting) to mess with the board before using it.

[Carcharocles]

We've been using a Unicomp Ultra Classic for over a month now. It's a great keyboard with a nice feel and good warranty--unless you have experience cleaning Ebay keyboards and possibly repairing or tinkering with them, I'd say go for it.

I'm probably one of those Not-Enthusiasts Keshley mentioned, but that's only because I don't have the money to throw into learning how to tinker with keyboards. But as a Not-Enthusiast I can tell you, that Unicomp keyboard I bought is a very nice keyboard for the money.

[1391406]

The case creak is indicative of the quality of the clamshell cover material which, according to Neil Muyskens, was changed in 1999, and I doubt they've reverted back to IBM and Lexmark's previous recipe...

As I mentioned, in the boards where it occurs, it doesn't happen when you're using it. As far as I know you must actually pick it up and flex it. It's beyond me why anyone even thought of doing that in the first place, or why it was supposed to be important. It's like complaining that your toaster doesn't bounce.

Yeah, I mean, why drive a Mercedes or BMW when a Dodge will get you from point A to point B just as well. If you can't understand why some people prefer the highest quality products they can afford then I don't know what to tell you. If your only interest relates to function, then who cares if you live in a double-wide trailer, as long as you've got a roof over your head, electricity, and running water.

In this case, the fact the board creaks at all is indicative of the quality of the clamshell cover material that's used. Nevermind the flashing around the bottom edges of the key caps or cosmetic defects on the surface of the case. But comparing case flex / creak to a toaster that doesn't bounce? Is there a market for toasters that bounce? There's a reason some keyboard enthusiasts lay down large sums of money for high quality custom cases -- because that's what they want. And unlike toasters that bounce, there's actually a demand for them(ie. a market).

What can possibly "flex" in an assembled IBM-style two-piece key?"

In an unassembled two-piece, the key cap.

And you say the caps feel "thinner"? When you're typing on them? How can you possibly determine the thickness of a cap firmly clipped to a stem? Or do you mean when you removed and examined them? You don't normally interrupt your typing to do that though, do you?

Naturally you'd remove the cap from the stem. How else? Further, just because I've never interrupted my driving to inspect the quality of the upholstery in my car doesn't mean I don't look at it.

Okay, I was too curious: I just called my friend in Vancouver, and he's removed and examined two-piece keys from his 2015 Ultra Classic and a 1989 Model M 122-key terminal board, compared them, and proclaimed them identical. And I believe him, as he's one of the most detail-oriented people I know (even more than some of you guys!). He couldn't imagine how they could be made to "flex", either. He offered to try squeezing one with pliers, but I said I was pretty sure that'd be beyond the scope of our discussion.

I have several bags of two-piece keys from some F-122's, a few early Model M's and more than a few Unicomp key caps. In my experience, there's a subtle difference in the flex of the key caps. Frankly, I'm not concerned that your friend can't perceive it anymore than I'm concerned that most people can't tell the difference between a Rolex and a good knockoff. Does it really matter, though? Not to the average user who's primary concern is function over form. However, again, to a number of enthusiasts whose primary interest is both function and the highest quality material available, it can and often does.

I'm glad we can agree they work equally well as, you know, keyboards —that being, after all, technically, what they are.

And while I see Unicomps and classic IBM M's as equally durable, even if Unicomps were slightly less robust, I don't know of any reason to think a Unicomp made in the last 9 years would prove less durable than an IBM from the '80s/'90s—which, assuming you're not paying $300 for a NIB one, is likely to have 10–20 years more use on it (probably full-time use, too, as BS boards were primarily for business back then).

I don't know if early Model M's are actually more durable, but based on the sturdiness of the case and lack of case flex / creak, they certainly feel more durable to me. I'd wager an early Model M can handle more abuse, though I'll likely never put that to the test.

So what aspect of "quality" remains?

Other than cosmetic defects on the surface of the case and flashing around the bottom edges of some key caps? Nothing. It's not solely about weight, although it's generally accepted that higher quality components and materials do often weigh (and cost) more, which is why high quality vintage gear is generally so heavy.

If you ask me, I think IBM and Lexmark lightened their plates over the years not because they were trying to skimp, but because they realized heavier plates were overkill and they were just wasting metal and paying unnecessary shipping. I think they realized people were typing on these things, not hurling them at track meets or using them to stop artillery shells.

It's more likely they were trying to reduce manufacturing costs.

And while you and I think classic Model M's are beautiful, let's face it: To most people, they look like something from a thrift store. Non-geeks who want buckling-spring boards probably appreciate the option of buying more modern-looking ones that aren't of such epic (and necessarily beige) proportions.

Sure, if your definition of modern is a keyboard that looks like it was manufactured in 1990.

In other words, I think everyone's a winner. For the clack-loving, there are great options all around. IMHO, just the fact that Unicomp exists and is still pumping out Model M's, in this world so focused on cheapness and mediocrity, is a bit of a miracle.

Overall, I like Unicomp keyboards. I've made that clear in numerous posts. I just don't like them nearly as much as early IBM Model M's. My contention has always been that they simply aren't up to IBM's quality standards and, to me, feel shoddy by comparison.