Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) not solved

[jcoffin1981]

My v60 spacebar was chattering like crazy (Gateron switches), so after firmware updates failed to solve the problem the company sent me 17 (yes 17) replacement switches to replace the defective switch.  This was my first time desoldering and soldering a switch and it went without a hitch (almost).

There was a hidded screw under the keycap which I did not see and in trying to separate the board from the case I broke the mini usb port from the board like a space cadet.  I included a pic which is worthless, but you can see the anchor prongs are broken.  Are the any special precedures or worries or considerations I need  to consider, or is this going to be cake?  The part is dirt cheap.  I'm not sure if it was originally soldered in.  Oh yeah, it's soldered in.  The old solder has to be cleaned off

Edit: If anybody needs a replacement switch I'd be happy to send it to them.  I have more than I'll ever need.   

[TalkingTree]

It's gonna be cake with a small tip, some flux and eventually a magnifying glass.

[jcoffin1981]

Oh yeah, I can do this.  If I can disassemble, clean, adjust, and regulate a 1940's vintage watch then I can solder a few meager electronic pieces.

Question 1-  Is the flux necessary?  This is obviously a high tension area and we want the soldered surfaces to hold under pressure.  This is it's purpose?

Question 2-  Am I better using a solder pump or a solder wick to clean the leftover solder from the usb mini port that broke off?   There are no more prongs or anchors to heat, so I am guessing the wick?

[ika]

Flux burns off when you apply heat and is there to clean the metal contact areas so that the solder sticks. Without it, the solder can just bead up around the metal and you'll never get a good solder joint.

Wick vs pump - whatever you prefer. Pumps are easier to use and are better for large parts but wicks tend to be cleaner. Wicks are also consumable, i.e. you'll have to buy more if you do enough soldering. A pump would probably be better in your case.

[TalkingTree]

Oh yeah, I can do this.  If I can disassemble, clean, adjust, and regulate a 1940's vintage watch then I can solder a few meager electronic pieces.

Definetely.

Question 1-  Is the flux necessary?  This is obviously a high tension area and we want the soldered surfaces to hold under pressure.  This is it's purpose?

ika's considerations are valid but I believe you can get a good result even without it, although, being flux extremely cheap (less than 10 USD for 100 gr) you might want to get some.

Question 2-  Am I better using a solder pump or a solder wick to clean the leftover solder from the usb mini port that broke off?   There are no more prongs or anchors to heat, so I am guessing the wick?

Are you reusing the same damaged USB port? If so, reconsider, you'd get better results with a new one.

[jcoffin1981]

I have purchased wick as well as the pump.  In this case I think the wick will remove the remaining solder from the board better than the pump.  The pump seems to work well for large beads of solder.  The leads or tracers are not damaged at all.  I purchased new mini-usb ports but they are not what I needed.  For some reason the contact pins are raised from the pcb- they do not make contact.  This is the wrong style, but they can be modified.  I did also order one which I know to be correct, but that will not arrive until the end of next week and I am impatient.

The old one though damaged is still intact and I will probably just use that one.  I ordered expediated shipping on all these parts so I could do this today and wasted a lot of dough on shipping- I don't wanna wait up to another week.  If there is any indication of instability I will redo the job when the correct one comes in.  Yes I know this is all less than ideal, but it's what I wanna do. Or I could just secure it well enough where it will be easy to remove and install a new port.  I really wanna use my favorite keyboard. 

Yes I did purchase flux.  This is in the form of an alcohol based pen and should be slightly less messy than the flux that looks like Vaseline.

[jcoffin1981]

I realize that is was foolish to attempt to re-solder a damaged mini-usb port back to the pcb, but I was itching to use my favorite keyboard.  The wick by the way is far superior to the solder pump imho.  It was just not possible to lineup the 5 pins and keep the port flat on the pcb.  After 3 or 4 attempts I gave up.

When I held the pins against the visible contacts on the pcb, some of the keyboard commands would work.  After cleaning off the old solder several times I hope I did not damage the pcb.   There seem to be tracers running between the 4 anchor feet of the mini pcb port.  Here is an image.  Soldering is very fun, but I'm learning as I'm going along.  I will wait for the proper part to arrive next week sometime and in the unlikely event that it does not function I will be forced to buy another board.  Oh well.  I used the coolest setting of the iron that would allow the melting of the solder.  What is your opinion of the condition of the board?  I have no problem replacing the board if need be because I like it that much.  But this should really be an easy fix (unless I made a super stupid novice mistake).

[TalkingTree]

What is your opinion of the condition of the board?

I think the only parts which are really damaged are the USB port pads, but before you throw the board away, try cleaning it up.
Gently scrape the yellowish crust off the board with a flat screwdriver, and by gently I mean as gently as if you were to scrape your eyelids.
If the large pads are unrecoverable, you could just try glueing that side of the USB port on the board.
Also, you'll probably have to resolder the two switches at the sides of the port.
Post a picture of the board when you're done.
And good luck.

[jcoffin1981]

The switches are pretty easy to solder, so that's not an issue.  This should have been fairly easy, but I started off with a broken and distorted (although still functional) port and should have simply waited for the new part to come in.  Excuse my ignorance, but I'm educated in the medical field and learn tech as I go along. 

Do the port pads simply give a place to solder the feet to the pcb?   Is the  only place that is really acting as a conduit the 5 pcb pins on the board?  If you look between the usb port pads it appears their are connections running between them in the pcb.  I circled them.  This is puzzling to me.

[absyrd]

Considering your username + thread title I was hoping to see blood/death.

[jcoffin1981]

Haha, I bet the Poker 3 is sturdy enough to commit homicide.   This v60 would probably break.  No sense in ruining a perfectly good board.

[TalkingTree]

I'm educated in the medical field

Me too, but you would concur that this hobby is dreadfully addicting.

Do the port pads simply give a place to solder the feet to the pcb?

Yes, they conduct no electricity, they are there to solder the port firmly on the board.

Is the  only place that is really acting as a conduit the 5 pcb pins on the board?

Correct.

If you look between the usb port pads it appears their are connections running between them in the pcb.  I circled them.  This is puzzling to me.

Those white lines are printed, they are not nets.

[jcoffin1981]

Mr. Talking Tree, you've been very helpful. Thanks  This still looks like a very easy fix.  One more thing is that I have seen videos of peoples soldering the 5 pins to  the board.  I was under the impression that the pins simply lay against the leads.  Is that necessary?  That looks freaking hard soldering those pins so close together.  That may take some practice on my part. 

Actually, one more question.  Since you are not soldering through the pcb like you do a switch and the port simply lays on top, how to you keep the port in exactly the spot you want it as you are soldering it without it moving around?  I'm sure there's an elementary answer.

[TalkingTree]

Mr. Talking Tree, you've been very helpful. Thanks 

My pleasure.

One more thing is that I have seen videos of peoples soldering the 5 pins to  the board.  I was under the impression that the pins simply lay against the leads.  Is that necessary? 

Yes, that's necessary because without soldering you might risk random signal loss.
Flux will do the magic. Just rub some on the pads, align the port on the pads, rub some more flux and then solder.

This video will explain it better.

[jcoffin1981]

This gentleman is quite skillful.  I've seen some videos of people making an absolute disaster of a mess. Not sure that wthout practice I could be as neat and fast as this guy.  I was also wondering how you keep the port aligned with the pins as you are attempting to solder.  It looks like he starts off with a small amount of solder on the board and when this melts to one of the feet it acts as an anchor and the port stays put.

[TalkingTree]

I was also wondering how you keep the port aligned with the pins as you are attempting to solder.

In your case, you should simply solder the port to two opposite large pads, so the port won't move and the pins will stay aligned.

[jcoffin1981]

Right, I see what you are saying.  However if you hold the solder with one hand and the iron with the other the port can move as  you are trying to keep it in place.  In watchmaking we have this cool stuff called rodico that has a gazillion and one uses, one of them is strapping something in place temporarily so it does not move anywhere while you are working on it.  It's sort of like silly putty or clay.  I wouldn't attempt to use it here but made me think of it. 

It's just a matter of learning technique and since the amount of times I have soldered I can count on one hand I am not very schooled yet.  I'm sure it will be easier with a new port.  Thanks for all the tips.

In the video it looked like he started with a bit of solder right on the pad and when he heated that up that immediately cooled and anchored it into place.  I could try that.

[TalkingTree]

However if you hold the solder with one hand and the iron with the other the port can move as  you are trying to keep it in place.

In the video it looked like he started with a bit of solder right on the pad and when he heated that up that immediately cooled and anchored it into place.  I could try that.

There, you got yourself your answer. Put solder on one large pad alone, then melt it with your iron while you align the port with tweezers.

[jcoffin1981]

I have one more question my friend.  I don't expect you to answer every question I have as it's my responsibility to do research, but my 60/40 solder has a diameter of 1mm.  Looking at these connectors it may be too wide?  This 1mm seems to be the most standard size, and there is no one place where there is a clear-cut question and answer, so I thought I'd ask you or anybody else who wants to chime in.  Especially if it beads as it melts it's much wider.  Should I be looking for 0.5mm solder for replacing a usb port?

Edit: well I purchased 0.3 and 0.5mm solder and will experiment to find the best technique.  I make the stupid mistake of trying to solder the twisted port back to the board.  That won't happen again. 

[TalkingTree]

I have one more question my friend.  I don't expect you to answer every question I have as it's my responsibility to do research, but my 60/40 solder has a diameter of 1mm.  Looking at these connectors it may be too wide?  This 1mm seems to be the most standard size, and there is no one place where there is a clear-cut question and answer, so I thought I'd ask you or anybody else who wants to chime in.  Especially if it beads as it melts it's much wider.  Should I be looking for 0.5mm solder for replacing a usb port?

Edit: well I purchased 0.3 and 0.5mm solder and will experiment to find the best technique.  I make the stupid mistake of trying to solder the twisted port back to the board.  That won't happen again.

I only used 1mm solder so far so I can't tell the difference, although 1mm with flux is thin enough for the purpose.

[jcoffin1981]

I see no reason not to try and use the thinner solder.  I'm sure the 0.5 mm solder will do just fine, but purchased the 0.3mm just in case. They mark it as something like 0.012" diameter solder.  My technique is still not as good as the gentleman in the video and will probably never be since I do this so infrequently.  I just didn't want a big blob of solder running across all the connectors, but I'm confident I can do this without a hitch.

I'm sure the 1mm is perfect for the solder pads, but for the connectors I want the thinner diameter stuff.  I have the flux in the Sharpie pen style with the chisel tip.  It seems pretty easy to control and does not leave a big waste of thick waxy resin to work around.

[TalkingTree]

I just didn't want a big blob of solder running across all the connectors.

Flux should avoid that, but in any case you could try putting something between a pad and another. I use the tip of a neon tester which doesn't get soldered.

[jcoffin1981]

Success!  The port was soldered to the board (with great difficulty).  This should be very easy, but for some reason these tips corrode almost instantaneously and then don't get hot.  I tried cleaning/fluxing/tinning them with very little effect.  Maybe these tips are really made for one time use.

So the board works except for the spacebar switch that I replaced and I had the same problem.  The tip would not get hot so I turned up the heat on the soldering iron and used the unused portion of the tip farther back.  I hope the pcb is not damaged after all this.  I can chalk some of this up to inexperience, but I spent many hours reading and watching videos before attempting this procedure and was sure I could do this competently.  I think these tips are absolute sh*#, although the iron is probably satisfactory enough.  I certainly could have gotten away with less than 60 watts.  Next time I will buy separate top quality tips made of a better alloy.

I don't know enough about how the switch meets the connections on the pcb is this damaged and can it be salvaged?  It's the only switch not working.  You are looking looking at the switch side of the pcb which is probably difficult to damage unless there is at least a little negligence involved.  I only turned up the soldering iron because it would not melt the solder.  I rarely skimp on tools and prefer better quality, but I found it hard to justify spending more in tools than the board was worth.

[TalkingTree]

That's unrecoverable for sure, but being it a single switch, you can follow the net to the adjacent switch and hardwire both connection to it. It will work.

[mrbishop]

you sure one couldn't clean that up? is that just plastic or silicone from the middle of the PCB sandwich?

[TalkingTree]

you sure one couldn't clean that up? is that just plastic or silicone from the middle of the PCB sandwich?

I'm afraid there's no more copper to solder on, the only chance is to hardwire that switch to another.

[mrbishop]

you sure one couldn't clean that up? is that just plastic or silicone from the middle of the PCB sandwich?

I'm afraid there's no more copper to solder on, the only chance is to hardwire that switch to another.

ah. i thought it was just gunked over with plastic and crud.

that sucks

[jcoffin1981]

Okay, well now we are getting above my paygrade and this I'm not sure I can do, although I'm going to attempt it.  This is so damn easy I can't believe I messed this up.  I had no idea the pcb was getting so hot.  I already plan on replacing the board and the distributer is going to give me a deal, but I still wanna do this.  I can see on a good board where an intact board meets the switch. 



If someone can point me in the direction of hardwiring the switch I'd be oblidged.  I have to buy new tips obviously so maybe this is just not worth it, but I still wanna try.

[TalkingTree]

Can you take a HD picture of the whole board?

[jcoffin1981]

When I get home I can post an image of the entire pcb.  I just found a Radio Shack 15 watt soldering iron at work and even the tip on this looks like it's of much better material than what came with this "Mudder" soldering iron.  What do I need to complete this, just some copper wire? 

[TalkingTree]

What do I need to complete this, just some copper wire?

Yes, even something reused.

[jcoffin1981]

Remember, there is no such thing as a silly question....   Does it need to be insulated?   I have no wire at home so I will go to Radio Shack and get the smallest spool or piece they can cut me.

[TalkingTree]

there is no such thing as a silly question....   

Agreed.

Does it need to be insulated?

Meaning? With rubber around? Yes, that's better, if not mandatory.
Are you sure you don't have any wire at home? You could salvage some from any dead electric equipment, such as a dead PSU or else.

[jcoffin1981]

Actually I may have like a 200 watt psu thats been sitting in a box fox for many years, but maybe I threw it out, so I can't be sure.  I hate to waste cash but the wire is cheap enough.  I have  probably a dozen case fans but don't want to waste those.

I am going to research this too and I don't expect you to hold my hand the entire way, but if you wire it to another switch, how the heck does the controller know what switch is actuating?

[TalkingTree]

I hate to waste cash but the wire is cheap enough.

True that.
In that case 26 AWG will do.

[TalkingTree]

but if you wire it to another switch, how the heck does the controller know what switch is actuating?

In fact, you don't just wire it to any switch, you wire it to the previous switch in the matrix, that's why you need to backtrack the nets.

[jcoffin1981]

I hope you can see enough of the pcb to see what the adjacent switch to wire the space to is. 

[jcoffin1981]

Can somebody recommend a soldering iron and/or tips for jobs like this one here?  Weller is supposed to be a popular brand.  I'm going to use the Radio Shack model to complete the job since it's better quality than what I have now; it just takes a long time to heat up.

I have not spent a lot of time with pcb's.  How do I tell what the previous switch is in the matrix?

I  did some reading and found what I thought was the previous switch in the matrix- the L Alt.  I loosely wired them and when I pressed the space all I did was close the circuit for the alt switch.  I found different techniques for wiring so I may not have even done it correctly.  I'd be much oblidged if you could tell me the switch and technique I should wire this space bar to.  Thanks a lot.

[TalkingTree]

Can somebody recommend a soldering iron and/or tips for jobs like this one here?

Any iron with temperature regulator would work, as for the tips I'm getting good results with these (I couldn't find on Amazon US but at least you can get the idea).

it just takes a long time to heat up.

It has to, especially when you desolder. Let the iron reach the proper temperature, then clean the tip on a wet sponge until it shines. I usually turn the iron on at the max temperature and the lower it according to my needs. Desoldering usually requires higher temperatures, in my experience.

How do I tell what the previous switch is in the matrix?

You follow the net from the switch pad to another. In your case, looks like the spacebar switch goes directly to the microcontroller, which makes things harder.
You might want to try your luck and connect the spacebar to a random switch to see what happens. Put the switch back in its place, connect your keyboard and then bridge its pins to another switch's, then activate the switch and see what happens. It's a terrible approach to a solution but it might work.

I  did some reading and found what I thought was the previous switch in the matrix- the L Alt.  I loosely wired them and when I pressed the space all I did was close the circuit for the alt switch.  I found different techniques for wiring so I may not have even done it correctly.  I'd be much oblidged if you could tell me the switch and technique I should wire this space bar to.

Read the previous bit, just make sure you bridge the switches with the correct polarity. Meaning left pin to left pin, right pin to right pin.

[jcoffin1981]

Right the microcontroller is between the alt switch and space bar switch.  So it sounds like this won't work, but I'll try.  I'm fairly certain this happened during desoldering and the pin got too hot which burnt the pcb and traces.  I like the solder braid technique better anyway and there is much less chance of damaging components.  I'm buying a Weller next time and learning from these mistakes.

I'll post back and let you know what happens.  So you think I should try random adjacent switches?

[mrbishop]

Right the microcontroller is between the alt switch and space bar switch.  So it sounds like this won't work, but I'll try.  I'm fairly certain this happened during desoldering and the pin got too hot which burnt the pcb and traces.  I like the solder braid technique better anyway and there is much less chance of damaging components.  I'm buying a Weller next time and learning from these mistakes.

I'll post back and let you know what happens.  So you think I should try random adjacent switches?

Hope you can get it working. looks like a sweet board. worst case you can always get another board and transfer all the switches  or salvage them for other projects so it wont be a total loss. still sucks tho like loosing a friend.

[TalkingTree]

So you think I should try random adjacent switches?

I would. It's only one switch. It would take you no more than 30 minutes.

[sircheddar]

My v60 spacebar was chattering like crazy (Gateron switches), so after firmware updates failed to solve the problem the company sent me 17 (yes 17) replacement switches to replace the defective switch.  This was my first time desoldering and soldering a switch and it went without a hitch (almost).

There was a hidded screw under the keycap which I did not see and in trying to separate the board from the case I broke the mini usb port from the board like a space cadet.  I included a pic which is worthless, but you can see the anchor prongs are broken.  Are the any special precedures or worries or considerations I need  to consider, or is this going to be cake?  The part is dirt cheap.  I'm not sure if it was originally soldered in.  Oh yeah, it's soldered in.  The old solder has to be cleaned off

Edit: If anybody needs a replacement switch I'd be happy to send it to them.  I have more than I'll ever need.

Came to this thread expecting a physical injury to OP o:

[jcoffin1981]

I'm kind of embarrassed to have messed up something that is so elementary.  But anyway what if I can find the traces running from the space bar switch in the pcb and solder a wire to that I found it and it's intact on one side.

There are a lot of people on here who are way smarter than me.  If anyone has any good ideas I'd love to hear them 

[mrbishop]

I'm kind of embarrassed to have messed up something that is so elementary.  But anyway what if I can find the traces running from the space bar switch in the pcb and solder a wire to that I found it and it's intact on one side.

There are a lot of people on here who are way smarter than me.  If anyone has any good ideas I'd love to hear them 

well i wouldnt' beat yourself up. we all started somewhere and we all have made mistakes. at this point its less smarts than it is skill with a soldering iron. get you the tiniest tip you can find and tack those traces buddy

you can do it!

if not i got dibs on the board before you toss it xD )

[TalkingTree]

I'm kind of embarrassed to have messed up something that is so elementary.

You learn from your mistakes, sadly mistakes in electronics cost money.

But anyway what if I can find the traces running from the space bar switch in the pcb and solder a wire to that I found it and it's intact on one side.

Don't look for nets anymore. Just hotwire the spacebar switch to a random key, see what happens when you activate them.
If everything looks good to you, just solder the wires.

[jcoffin1981]

I have hard wired the space bar switch to almost every other switch on the keyboard and all it did was actuate the switch I was wiring to.  I wish I knew more about this but I don't.  I have already purchased a new keyboard and am waiting for it to be shipped, but I still want to do this just to say I did.  I think It's possible with more study of hard wiring and the matrix.

[mrbishop]

I have hard wired the space bar switch to almost every other switch on the keyboard and all it did was actuate the switch I was wiring to.  I wish I knew more about this but I don't.  I have already purchased a new keyboard and am waiting for it to be shipped, but I still want to do this just to say I did.  I think It's possible with more study of hard wiring and the matrix.

dont give up you'll get it. ive had to put projects on the shelf to come back to them. best of luck in this project.

[TalkingTree]

I have hard wired the space bar switch to almost every other switch on the keyboard and all it did was actuate the switch I was wiring to.

Probably the spacebar is the first switch in the matrix, right after the controller.
You have really no other option to wire it a key you're willing to sacrifice and remap it to as a blank space. Best candidates would be right GUI or App. But it's up to you.
Keep us noticed.

[jcoffin1981]

I would imagine using software introduces a delay, whether or not it's perceptible I don't know.  I have a new a board coming the middle of next week, so it may be time to retire this.  I will continue to experiment with the wiring but I don't have high hopes.  I will read up on boards that have been hardwired vs pcb.