Author Topic: Who owns a colorway?  (Read 56789 times)

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Offline demik

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #50 on: Sun, 17 January 2016, 22:23:56 »


nike, diamond, and tiffany & co would like to have a word with you about using their color scheme
No he's not around.

Offline MiTo

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #51 on: Sun, 17 January 2016, 22:25:51 »
You're not helping yourself Mito.  You did not credit the creator of the icon which is what the Creative Commons license states must be done.

Additionally, you cannot copyright a colorway or arrangements of color and colors can only be trademarked as part of trade dress.  A set using a colorway is not trade dress.

Nor did the person who shared his icon (if he/she was even the first). I used the general shape that I found in good faith. Since such happening took place, according to the license it seems that the actual creator, Nico, can revoke usage of such symbol for any kind of application, including commercial reproduction. And since you're mentioning that's something that's clearly way beyond me.

As a response to the second half of your reply, note that it was written under the premise that I'm intending in copyright a color way. Which is not what I'm planning to do nor something that I agree with. It's an invalid point.



Offline jaffers

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #52 on: Sun, 17 January 2016, 22:26:08 »
Another thing to note, given the material provided by lucaslink is that the PuLSE icon is under the CC 3.0 license that states:

You are free to:

Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format
Adapt — remix, transform, and build upon the material
for any purpose, even commercially.
The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the license terms.


The terms being:

Under the following terms:

Attribution — You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor endorses you or your use.
No additional restrictions — You may not apply legal terms or technological measures that legally restrict others from doing anything the license permits.


Therefore others are free to use the PuLSE icon in whatever they want and I have no control over that. Such symbol was even used on custom made wrist rests.

Reading the T&C after the fact


Offline Zapheo

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #53 on: Sun, 17 January 2016, 22:32:04 »
This thread has certainly been... eye opening to say the least.
I need more keyboards to hold all of these keycaps.

Offline nubbinator

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #54 on: Sun, 17 January 2016, 22:33:39 »
You're not helping yourself Mito.  You did not credit the creator of the icon which is what the Creative Commons license states must be done.

Additionally, you cannot copyright a colorway or arrangements of color and colors can only be trademarked as part of trade dress.  A set using a colorway is not trade dress.

Nor did the person who shared his icon (if he/she was even the first). I used the general shape that I found in good faith. Since such happening took place, according to the license it seems that the actual creator, Nico, can revoke usage of such symbol for any kind of application, including commercial reproduction. And since you're mentioning that's something that's clearly way beyond me.

As a response to the second half of your reply, note that it was written under the premise that I'm intending in copyright a color way. Which is not what I'm planning to do nor something that I agree with. It's an invalid point.

If you created it and you post it under your name, you don't attribute yourself outside of your name you post it under.  In other words, I don't know what you're trying to say with that since you are not the creator.  If you use the identical design in a non-transformative way without attribution, you're violating the Creative Commons copyright.  That's why I said that your Creative Commons argument was one against yourself since you did not attribute the creator.

While you did not state that you were intending on copyrighting a color way, you did state that it belongs to you, is your concept, and should not be able to be run by someone else.  I was stating that you have no legal grounds for blocking someone from running that colorway if they wanted to do so.

Offline jaffers

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #55 on: Sun, 17 January 2016, 22:35:37 »
You're not helping yourself Mito.  You did not credit the creator of the icon which is what the Creative Commons license states must be done.

Additionally, you cannot copyright a colorway or arrangements of color and colors can only be trademarked as part of trade dress.  A set using a colorway is not trade dress.

Nor did the person who shared his icon (if he/she was even the first). I used the general shape that I found in good faith. Since such happening took place, according to the license it seems that the actual creator, Nico, can revoke usage of such symbol for any kind of application, including commercial reproduction. And since you're mentioning that's something that's clearly way beyond me.

As a response to the second half of your reply, note that it was written under the premise that I'm intending in copyright a color way. Which is not what I'm planning to do nor something that I agree with. It's an invalid point.


Offline MiTo

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #56 on: Sun, 17 January 2016, 22:43:18 »

so, you admit to tracing the pulse icon and not giving Nico credit and/or compensation? yet, its not ok for others to design keysets that slightly resemble others? i don't get it. googling an image doesn't give you the right to use it in something for commercial use. and yes, if you're making money from the sale of any of your keysets, its commercial. its part of the reason why SP charges what they do to use custom typefaces. they have to pay the original designers licensing fees to use it.


I used a general shape of a pulse icon as inspiration to create mine based on images that showed up after Google search. I do believe that it's not ok for other to reproduce keysets that are direct copy of others.

You say that I'm making money out of "sales", note that I only ran two keyset group buys in my whole life. The first one being PuLSE and the second one being Sci-Fi. I didn't receive any royalties from PuLSE, but the keyset itself, which was sold and the money donated to a local asylum. Sci-Fi, which was entirely and absolutely my creation featured royalties that, again, were donated to humanitarian/environmental causes.


OK fine.. https://thenounproject.com/search/?q=leaf&i=27507 you have that in one or two of your keysets, don't you? I didn't see it attributed in your IC posts. like i said, i reaaaaaaally don't care whether or not you create the icons. you made a keyset that people like and want to put on their keyboards. you should be proud of that, but that pride doesn't give you the right to step on others or claim ownership over things that you simply don't or can't own.

I made a very similar, if not identical, leaf using shapes on Inkscape and it already existing is nothing but a coincidence. It's a general shape of a leaf and I won't be surprised if similar leaves are used anywhere.

I'm not proud in the slightest that I made a keyset that people like. It's just plastic.



Offline digi

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #57 on: Sun, 17 January 2016, 22:44:36 »
but the keyset itself, which was sold and the money donated to a local asylum.

now it's starting to make sense..

Offline jaffers

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #58 on: Sun, 17 January 2016, 22:51:51 »
but the keyset itself, which was sold and the money donated to a local asylum.

now it's starting to make sense..

Is it? I'd love to see a reciept

Offline MiTo

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #59 on: Sun, 17 January 2016, 22:58:00 »


If you created it and you post it under your name, you don't attribute yourself outside of your name you post it under.  In other words, I don't know what you're trying to say with that since you are not the creator.  If you use the identical design in a non-transformative way without attribution, you're violating the Creative Commons copyright.  That's why I said that your Creative Commons argument was one against yourself since you did not attribute the creator.

While you did not state that you were intending on copyrighting a color way, you did state that it belongs to you, is your concept, and should not be able to be run by someone else.  I was stating that you have no legal grounds for blocking someone from running that colorway if they wanted to do so.

I don't remember if the image I used as reference was from some fancy unrealistic beat monitor (of course not a real one as no real wave/trace can have such pattern), a tattoo, an ambulance or whatever other kind of representation of a general symbol you can come up with after a Google search. One thing that I know is that it didn't have a source nor the ownership was claimed anywhere, and I understand what you're saying. It was never my intention to rip off the original creator. I was inspired by the symbol, thought it looked like an "M" and created one using circles and lines in such way that it represented a wave and an "M".

You are completely right, blocking someone from running such colorway by copyright is beyond my powers (if I have any) and it's up to Signature Plastics to decide what to do. I'm merely here displaying my opinion that keyset designs should be protected by them, since somebody else designed similar stuff in the past.



Offline lucaslink

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #60 on: Sun, 17 January 2016, 23:35:24 »
I don't remember if the image I used as reference was from some fancy unrealistic beat monitor (of course not a real one as no real wave/trace can have such pattern), a tattoo, an ambulance or whatever other kind of representation of a general symbol you can come up with after a Google search. One thing that I know is that it didn't have a source nor the ownership was claimed anywhere, and I understand what you're saying. It was never my intention to rip off the original creator. I was inspired by the symbol, thought it looked like an "M" and created one using circles and lines in such way that it represented a wave and an "M".

I used a general shape of a pulse icon as inspiration to create mine based on images that showed up after Google search. I do believe that it's not ok for other to reproduce keysets that are direct copy of others.



I made a very similar, if not identical, leaf using shapes on Inkscape and it already existing is nothing but a coincidence. It's a general shape of a leaf and I won't be surprised if similar leaves are used anywhere.

You know, if you had just said 'oh yeah i used those icons' I think most of us would've been like 'ok cool whatever who cares.' but now you're claiming to have made the leaf?!

below are 2 screenshots from this http://i.imgur.com/NUJfow8.png godspeed IC image with the original icons overlaid.



Offline zslane

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #61 on: Sun, 17 January 2016, 23:36:30 »
It might be helpful, at this point, to reiterate two salient facts:

1. You can not copyright, trademark, or patent a color scheme unless it is combined with other distinctive elements that, together, form a corporate identity (e.g., magenta and orange, with the right typeface, combine to form the Dunkin' Donuts "identity"). It is possible that the graphics for individual keys could be copyrighted, but that protection would not extend to the set as a whole, and certainly not the color scheme.

2. Signature Plastics has their own policies with regard to honoring claims of creative ownership over keycap designs submitted to them for manufacture. These policies have no connection with actual law, are arbitrary in their entirety, and subject to change at any time. It would be a mistake to think that because SP extends a facsimile of protection, it is the same as protection under U.S. copyright law (or trademark law, or patent law).

Nobody has control over keycap designs. Not really. Designers may feel entitled to control, and much of the mech keyboard community may be willing to indulge that entitlement, but it is really pretty illusory when you get right down to it.

I myself plan to begin an interest check campaign for a dual-blue colorway based on the old Data General Dasher keyboards. I'm not the first to think of this: facetsame embarked on a much more elaborate project involving this color scheme, which has stalled, and in a perfect world my project will not step on his toes. And in a perfect world, nobody else will beat either of us to the punch, but anything can happen.

Most of the world would find this conversation bewildering, and I can't say I blame them.

Offline linkshine

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #62 on: Sun, 17 January 2016, 23:44:11 »


You know, if you had just said 'oh yeah i used those icons' I think most of us would've been like 'ok cool whatever who cares.' but now you're claiming to have made the leaf?!



Offline 27

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #63 on: Sun, 17 January 2016, 23:49:46 »
MiTo

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Offline nmur

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #64 on: Sun, 17 January 2016, 23:51:44 »
More
I don't remember if the image I used as reference was from some fancy unrealistic beat monitor (of course not a real one as no real wave/trace can have such pattern), a tattoo, an ambulance or whatever other kind of representation of a general symbol you can come up with after a Google search. One thing that I know is that it didn't have a source nor the ownership was claimed anywhere, and I understand what you're saying. It was never my intention to rip off the original creator. I was inspired by the symbol, thought it looked like an "M" and created one using circles and lines in such way that it represented a wave and an "M".

I used a general shape of a pulse icon as inspiration to create mine based on images that showed up after Google search. I do believe that it's not ok for other to reproduce keysets that are direct copy of others.

Show Image


I made a very similar, if not identical, leaf using shapes on Inkscape and it already existing is nothing but a coincidence. It's a general shape of a leaf and I won't be surprised if similar leaves are used anywhere.

You know, if you had just said 'oh yeah i used those icons' I think most of us would've been like 'ok cool whatever who cares.' but now you're claiming to have made the leaf?!

below are 2 screenshots from this http://i.imgur.com/NUJfow8.png godspeed IC image with the original icons overlaid.

Show Image

Show Image

wow! what a crazy coincidence! they're exactly the same!
wtb/wttf: greyscale bots, milk blue clack (t), blank blue realforce set

Offline MiTo

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #65 on: Sun, 17 January 2016, 23:54:47 »

You know, if you had just said 'oh yeah i used those icons' I think most of us would've been like 'ok cool whatever who cares.' but now you're claiming to have made the leaf?!

below are 2 screenshots from this http://i.imgur.com/NUJfow8.png godspeed IC image with the original icons overlaid.

Show Image

Show Image


About the PuLSE icon, it looks exactly the same and it's clearly from Nico. The diameter of the edges and angles are in fact identical and this is not a surprise, since I used an image featuring his icon as reference to create a logo for the set.

I can't say anything but repeat that the the leaf is an incredible coincidence. Not a surprise though, since it's a general shape with an closed angle cut. Anyone can do this is less than five minutes and I created the one I used from scratch.

The planet is a scan from a newsletter from my university, they used this icon as a tag for highlighting their website on the back of the newsletter. They also have the Facebook iconic "f" and a small phone to highlight their telephone number.

At this point you guys discussing ownership of everything might as well discuss the ownership of the shape of our planet and a leaf. Good luck with that.



Offline 27

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #66 on: Sun, 17 January 2016, 23:55:55 »

You know, if you had just said 'oh yeah i used those icons' I think most of us would've been like 'ok cool whatever who cares.' but now you're claiming to have made the leaf?!

below are 2 screenshots from this http://i.imgur.com/NUJfow8.png godspeed IC image with the original icons overlaid.

Show Image

Show Image


About the PuLSE icon, it looks exactly the same and it's clearly from Nico. The diameter of the edges and angles are in fact identical and this is not a surprise, since I used an image featuring his icon as reference to create a logo for the set.

I can't say anything but repeat that the the leaf is an incredible coincidence. Not a surprise though, since it's a general shape with an closed angle cut. Anyone can do this is less than five minutes.

The planet is a scan from a newsletter from my university, they used this icon as a tag for highlighting their website on the back of the newsletter. They also have the Facebook iconic "f" and a small phone to highlight their telephone number.

At this point you guys discussing ownership of everything might as well discuss the ownership of the shape of our planet and a leaf. Good luck with that.

Bull
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Offline linkshine

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #67 on: Sun, 17 January 2016, 23:58:03 »

You know, if you had just said 'oh yeah i used those icons' I think most of us would've been like 'ok cool whatever who cares.' but now you're claiming to have made the leaf?!

below are 2 screenshots from this http://i.imgur.com/NUJfow8.png godspeed IC image with the original icons overlaid.

Show Image

Show Image



About the PuLSE icon, it looks exactly the same and it's clearly from Nico. The diameter of the edges and angles are in fact identical and this is not a surprise, since I used an image featuring his icon as reference to create a logo for the set.

I can't say anything but repeat that the the leaf is an incredible coincidence. Not a surprise though, since it's a general shape with an closed angle cut. Anyone can do this is less than five minutes and I created the one I used from scratch.

The planet is a scan from a newsletter from my university, they used this icon as a tag for highlighting their website on the back of the newsletter. They also have the Facebook iconic "f" and a small phone to highlight their telephone number.

At this point you guys discussing ownership of everything might as well discuss the ownership of the shape of our planet and a leaf. Good luck with that.


you expect us to believe you just created that EXACT shape down to the angles and curves???

Offline MiTo

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #68 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 00:10:45 »
you expect us to believe you just created that EXACT shape down to the angles and curves???

You're talking about the beat icon I suppose, so I break down the process:

1. I searched for a wave/beat shape that would resemble a letter "M";
2. Found one represented on either a fancy (unrealistic) sound beat monitor or something else, don't remember exactly what it was since I ran through hundreds of pictures;
3. Used Paint circles and lines tool to make such shape in plain black color so I could export it;
4. Applied it to the mockups.

For the leaf I created it from scratch and again, the planet was a scan from a printed paper. I have absolutely no idea about who created the planet, but it is on the newsletter which is released every semester. I don't have pictures of such print as I'm on mobile, but can provide if requested.



Offline nmur

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #69 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 00:12:45 »

For the leaf I created it from scratch

I'm having a lot of trouble believing this

it's literally exactly the same. the style, the curves, the scale...
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Offline linkshine

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #70 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 00:13:31 »
you expect us to believe you just created that EXACT shape down to the angles and curves???

You're talking about the beat icon I suppose, so I break down the process:

1. I searched for a wave/beat shape that would resemble a letter "M";
2. Found one represented on either a fancy (unrealistic) sound beat monitor or something else, don't remember exactly what it was since I ran through hundreds of pictures;
3. Used Paint circles and lines tool to make such shape in plain black color so I could export it;
4. Applied it to the mockups.

For the leaf I created it from scratch and again, the planet was a scan from a printed paper. I have absolutely no idea about who created the planet, but it is on the newsletter which is released every semester. I don't have pictures of such print as I'm on mobile, but can provide if requested.

im talkin about the leaf...

Offline 27

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #71 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 00:15:03 »
you expect us to believe you just created that EXACT shape down to the angles and curves???

You're talking about the beat icon I suppose, so I break down the process:

1. I searched for a wave/beat shape that would resemble a letter "M";
2. Found one represented on either a sound beat monitor or something else, don't remember exactly what it was since I ran through hundreds of pictures;
3. Used Paint circles and lines tool to make such shape in plain black color so I could export it;
4. Applied it to the mockups.

For the leaf I created it from scratch and again, the planet was a scan from a printed paper. I have absolutely no idea about who created the planet, but it is on the newsletter which is released every semester. I don't have pictures of such print as I'm on mobile, but can provide if requested.

The leaf you made by scratch, I highly doubt that... Just own up already, you took the icons and didn't  attribute.  Stop lying when all the facts are out.
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Offline NiceAndCreamy

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #72 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 00:22:09 »
you expect us to believe you just created that EXACT shape down to the angles and curves???

You're talking about the beat icon I suppose, so I break down the process:

1. I searched for a wave/beat shape that would resemble a letter "M";
2. Found one represented on either a fancy (unrealistic) sound beat monitor or something else, don't remember exactly what it was since I ran through hundreds of pictures;
3. Used Paint circles and lines tool to make such shape in plain black color so I could export it;
4. Applied it to the mockups.

For the leaf I created it from scratch and again, the planet was a scan from a printed paper. I have absolutely no idea about who created the planet, but it is on the newsletter which is released every semester. I don't have pictures of such print as I'm on mobile, but can provide if requested.

All THREE are identical and you expect us to believe this was all coincidence. You've been had, it's time to stop digging the hole deeper. just my 2c

Offline MiTo

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #73 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 00:24:07 »

For the leaf I created it from scratch

I'm having a lot of trouble believing this

it's literally exactly the same. the style, the curves, the scale...

It's the only style that I know how to work with. I'm no master when it comes to drawing complex forms or shapes, all I know is how to combine geometric elements. For the leaf I used circles and kept changing the curvature until I had a natural shape. After that, I used the "Ink pen" tool from Inkscape to make the part that sticks in the branch (tail? don't know the proper name in English) and a negative of this same shape, in order to complete the form of a leaf.

It's a general shape, very easy to make and an unfortunate coincidence, whether you believe it or not.

If you take Sci-Fi icons, weapons and grenades you will see the same kind of style, curvature and shapes. Again, it's the only style I can make as I'm not talented enough to make complex things like a sloth with hair, eyes and stuff like that.



Offline 27

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #74 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 00:31:00 »

For the leaf I created it from scratch

I'm having a lot of trouble believing this

it's literally exactly the same. the style, the curves, the scale...

It's the only style that I know how to work with. I'm no master when it comes to drawing complex forms or shapes, all I know is how to combine geometric elements. For the leaf I used circles and kept changing the curvature until I had a natural shape. After that, I used the "Ink pen" tool from Inkscape to make the part that sticks in the branch (tail? don't know the proper name in English) and a negative of this same shape, in order to complete the form of a leaf.

It's a general shape, very easy to make and an unfortunate coincidence, whether you believe it or not.

If you take Sci-Fi icons, weapons and grenades you will see the same kind of style, curvature and shapes. Again, it's the only style I can make as I'm not talented enough to make complex things like a sloth with hair, eyes and stuff like that.

You aren't talented at all MiTo, as shown by the theft of your icons.  3/3 icons perfectly match, and that is no coincidence.
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Offline nmur

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #75 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 00:31:57 »

For the leaf I created it from scratch

I'm having a lot of trouble believing this

it's literally exactly the same. the style, the curves, the scale...

It's the only style that I know how to work with. I'm no master when it comes to drawing complex forms or shapes, all I know is how to combine geometric elements. For the leaf I used circles and kept changing the curvature until I had a natural shape. After that, I used the "Ink pen" tool from Inkscape to make the part that sticks in the branch (tail? don't know the proper name in English) and a negative of this same shape, in order to complete the form of a leaf.

It's a general shape, very easy to make and an unfortunate coincidence, whether you believe it or not.

If you take Sci-Fi icons, weapons and grenades you will see the same kind of style, curvature and shapes. Again, it's the only style I can make as I'm not talented enough to make complex things like a sloth with hair, eyes and stuff like that.

it's not a general shape though. that would be a circle or a square, something that has very few dimensions and variables

that leaf looks simple, but it could easily vary in many aspects, especially the curvatures

why you always lyin
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Offline MiTo

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #76 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 00:46:49 »
Keep arguing about icons that were used on a mockup which is secondary and won't even be produced with the Godspeed keyset.

I created a general leaf, despite of what you all think but I didn't create the planet, the PuLSE icon and the cosmonaut helmet. The cosmonaut helmet was also featured in the newsletter so I assume it has the same origins from the planet.

Two sets of my making went into production already. All of their legends and icons are my absolute creation from scratch, but the PuLSE logo. The only icon featured on Godspeed is a combo between the hydrogen atom structure and the curved shape from NASA's logo. I created it from scratch and absolutely nobody else did.

Use your own judgement to witch hunt on me, with all the facts on the table.



Offline 27

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #77 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 00:49:12 »
Keep arguing about icons that were used on a mockup which is secondary and won't even be produced with the Godspeed keyset.

I created a general leaf, despite of what you all think but I didn't create the planet, the PuLSE icon and the cosmonaut helmet. The cosmonaut helmet was also featured in the newsletter so I assume it has the same origins from the planet.

Two sets of my making went into production already. All of their legends and icons are my absolute creation from scratch, but the PuLSE logo. The only icon featured on Godspeed is a combo between the hydrogen atom structure and the curved shape from NASA's logo. I created it from scratch and absolutely nobody else did.

Use your own judgement to witch hunt on me, with all the facts on the table.

Can you provide any sort of proof of these claims?  Witch hunts are without basis, and I think we have plenty of basis.
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Offline jaffers

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #78 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 00:54:33 »
Q. If a man and a half digs a hole and a half in an hour and a half, how long does it take for one man to dig one hole?

A. Scenario # 1:

As stated before, there is no such thing as half a hole (as half a hole is still a hole) and there is no such thing as half a man (as half a man cannot dig). Making these two assumptions, the original problem simplified to:

If a man digs a hole and a half in an hour and a half, how long does it take to dig one hole?

Assuming constant digging rate and through linear interpolation we can state that the answer is 1 hour

Scenario  # 2:

Lets assume:
There is such a thing as half a hole; If a hole is of dept X, then half a hole is of dept [X/2].
There is such a thing as half a man. However, this half-man, does not work at the same rate as a full-man (as explained later).
Both half-man and full-man work at a constant rate.

Making these assumptions the original question still stands.
 
Solution:
Lets take into consideration the various cases as illustrated in figure 1 below:



                 [Figure 1: Case breakdown]  - In accordance to assumption 2

* Operational efficiency = Rate of work where a full-man is used as control. A full-man's operational efficiency is 1.

Case 1 calculations:

As per the figure 1(case 1), 2 men can dig 1.5 hole in 1.5 hour
Hence, 1 man in 1.5 hour digs 0.75 hole (=1.5/2; linear interpolation and in accordance to assumption 3)
Hence, 1 man in 1 hour digs 0.5 hold (=0.75/1.5 linear interpolation and in accordance to assumption 3)
Therefore, 1 man in 2 hours digs 1 hole (linear interpolation and in accordance to assumption 1 and assumption 3)

Case 2 calculations:

As per the figure 1(case 2), 1 men can dig 1.5 hole in 1.5 hour
Hence, 1 man in 1 hour digs 1 hole (same as answer # 1 and in accordance to assumption 3)

Case 3&4 calculations:

As per the figure 1(case 3 and case 4), 1.5 men can dig 1.5 hole in 1.5 hour
Hence, 1 man in 1.5 hour digs 1 hole (=1.5/1.5; linear interpolation)

Case 5 calculations:

Case specific assumption - this half man is half the size as a full man. Hence, he works at half the rate (or half the operational efficiency).

As per the figure 1(case 5), 1.5 men can dig 1.5 hole in 1.5 hour
Hence, 1 man in 1.5 hour digs 1 hole (=1.5/1.5; linear interpolation)

Overall:
Given that all cases are mutually exclusive we need to take an expected average.
Expected average = 0.2(2 hour) + 0.2(1 hour) + 0.4(1.5 hour) + 0.2(1.5 hour) = 1.50 hour


Final Answer:

Given that scenario # 1 and scenario # 2 are mutually exclusive events but both scenarios are equally likely,

Total expected time = Probability of scenario 1*(time of scenario 1) + Probability of scenario 2*(time of scenario 2)
                             = 0.5(1hour) + 0.5(1.5hour)
                             = 1.25 hour

Hence, I expect 1 man to dig 1 hole in 1.25 hour

Offline MiTo

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #79 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 01:14:27 »
Can you provide any sort of proof of these claims?  Witch hunts are without basis, and I think we have plenty of basis.

We already know who created the PuLSE logo. The planet and the cosmonaut are from the newsletter, sadly I don't have any picture of it with me right now but I can search for one on the campus once my classes start again. Regardless, we already know that it is from some symbol/icon database.

The leaf was created on Inkscape and I can provide screenshots of each ink/shape element that gives it its form separately and also the final result. All of the Sci-Fi icons and Godspeed's logo were created like that. PuLSE icons were also done like that too but in Paint. The forms lucaslink gifed were vectors from a paper print but the leaf, which again I created.

Don't expect an answer anytime soon though, since I'm heading to college finals tomorrow and will only browse the internet casually/address to more important things than proving myself to doubters, whether they have reason to do that or not.





Offline azhdar

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #80 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 01:30:37 »
lucaslink I love u. I want you to carry your babies.

@MiTo I hope you realise we are not on your butt just to be annoying to you, but like inanis said perfectly :


Another thing to note, given the material provided by lucaslink is that the PuLSE icon is under the CC 3.0 license that states:

You are free to:

Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format
Adapt — remix, transform, and build upon the material
for any purpose, even commercially.
The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the license terms.


The terms being:

Under the following terms:

Attribution — You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor endorses you or your use.
No additional restrictions — You may not apply legal terms or technological measures that legally restrict others from doing anything the license permits.


Therefore others are free to use the PuLSE icon in whatever they want and I have no control over that. Such symbol was even used on custom made wrist rests.
Bro, you take yourself way to ****ing seriously. It is painful to read sometimes. Just take a step back and look at the big picture. Have a sense of humor about yourself.

« Last Edit: Mon, 18 January 2016, 01:32:47 by azhdar »

Offline 27

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #81 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 01:33:01 »
How's it smell up there MiTo? Youre so far up your own ass it's scary.
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Offline Niomosy

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #82 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 03:13:13 »
Looks like the mods split off the discussion I ended up starting within the other thread and we have this bit of entertainment.

My question originally started with the policies of SP specifically.  What has been said explicitly is that SP will remove the set from regular production if requested.  They have not explicitly stated beyond that as far as I'm aware which is why my question came up.

But as we're getting into legal discussions here, let's bring that information out.

Reading into this, the pulse symbol in discussion would seem to fall under unprotected status via the first statement, 202.1 / 906.2 as a familiar symbol or design.  Those symbols are readily available and readily used; I've seen Red Hat use it on their site as well and it pretty much looks like that same pulse symbol.  In fact, I would dare say a fair number of novelty caps might fall under this category to be honest.  So while I disagree with MiTo with regard to sets and colorways, it looks like that pulse symbol is free and clear to use as it seems to be unprotected. 


Quote
http://www.copyright.gov/title37/202/37cfr202-1.html
§202.1   Material not subject to copyright.
The following are examples of works not subject to copyright and applications for registration of such works cannot be entertained:
(a) Words and short phrases such as names, titles, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering or coloring; mere listing of ingredients or contents;
(b) Ideas, plans, methods, systems, or devices, as distinguished from the particular manner in which they are expressed or described in a writing;
(c) Blank forms, such as time cards, graph paper, account books, diaries, bank checks, scorecards, address books, report forms, order forms and the like, which are designed for recording information and do not in themselves convey information;
(d) Works consisting entirely of information that is common property containing no original authorship, such as, for example: Standard calendars, height and weight charts, tape measures and rulers, schedules of sporting events, and lists or tables taken from public documents or other common sources.
(e) Typeface as typeface.


----------


906 - uncopyrightable material.  Including some highlights  http://copyright.gov/comp3/chap900/ch900-visual-art.pdf

906.1 Common Geometric Shapes
The Copyright Act does not protect common geometric shapes, either in twodimensional or three-dimensional form. There are numerous common geometric shapes, including, without limitation, straight or curved lines, circles, ovals, spheres, triangles, cones, squares, squares, cubes, rectangles, diamonds, trapezoids, parallelograms, pentagons, hexagons, heptagons, octagons, and decagons. Generally, the U.S. Copyright Office will not register a work that merely consists of common geometric shapes unless the author’s use of those shapes results in a work that, as a whole, is sufficiently creative.

906.2 Familiar Symbols and Designs
Familiar symbols and designs are not protected by the Copyright Act. 37 C.F.R. § 202.1(a). Likewise, the copyright law does not protect mere variations on a familiar symbol or design, either in two or three-dimensional form. For representative examples of symbols or designs that cannot be registered with the U.S. Copyright Office, see Chapter 300, Section 313.4(J). A work that includes familiar symbols or designs may be registered if the registration specialist determines that the author used these elements in a creative manner and that the work as a whole is eligible for copyright protection.

906.3:
Mere coloration or mere variations in coloring alone are not eligible for copyright
protection. 37 C.F.R. § 202.1(a).

Merely adding or changing one or relatively few colors in a work, or combining expected
or familiar pairs or sets of colors is not copyrightable, regardless of whether the changes
are made by hand, computer, or some other process. This is the case even if the
coloration makes a work more aesthetically pleasing or commercially valuable. For
example, the Office will not register a visual art work if the author merely added
relatively few colors to a preexisting design or simply created multiple colorized
versions of the same basic design. Copyright Registration for Colorized Versions of Black
and White Motion Pictures, 52 Fed. Reg. 23,443, 23,444 (June 22, 1987). Likewise, the
Office generally will not register a visual art work if the author merely applied colors to
aid in the visual display of a graph, chart, table, device, or other article.

906.8:
Functional and Useful Elements

The copyright law does not protect useful articles, utilitarian designs, or any functional
portion of a pictorial, graphic, or sculptural work. However, the decorative
ornamentation on a useful article may be registrable if it is separable from the
functional aspects of that article. For example, a lamp is a considered a useful article,
because it has an intrinsic utilitarian function, namely, to provide lighting. By contrast, a
three-dimensional floral design affixed to the base of a lamp or a two-dimensional
garden design painted on a lamp shade does not have a useful purpose. The U.S.
Copyright Office may register those design elements if they are separable from the
functional aspects of the lamp and if they are sufficiently original and creative. Fabrica,
Inc. v. El Dorado Corp., 697 F.2d 890, 893 (9th Cir. 1983) (“if an article has any intrinsic
utilitarian function, it can be denied copyright protection except to the extent that its
artistic features can be identified separately and are capable of existing independently
as a work of art”).
« Last Edit: Mon, 18 January 2016, 03:17:55 by Niomosy »

Offline MiTo

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #83 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 03:20:41 »
To solve the icon/symbol ownership issue, and to cease the discussion towards "stolen art" even though the only art I ever used on an actual real production project without giving credit to the creator was PuLSE's logo, I have now bought the complete license to all of the icons linked by lucaslink in this thread plus the entire database of icons from The Noun Project.

I now have unlimited license to use the following icons:

• Leaf;
• Cosmonaut;
• Planet Earth;
• PuLSE's Logo;
• and every other icon that's featured on The Noun Project database.


I actually bought the premium membership, so I can download and use absolutely all of the icons (over 150,000 icons) displayed on the site without having to give credit to their respective creators, even for commercial use, reproduction and modification. Absolute and complete license. I didn't do this before because I didn't even know what the source for such icons was. You can pay $1,99 for each icon that you want or pay $9,99 for a monthly membership that can be canceled at any time. I chose the latter since my college will make good use of this account (and they are funding it anyway).

https://thenounproject.com/accounts/pricing/#

My position towards color schemes protection (and not ownership) remain and I'd like to hear back from Signature Plastics and other people's civil opinion about that.



Offline KoalaKaiser

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #84 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 04:56:28 »
Hah that's great.

Offline xondat

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #85 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 05:14:47 »


Just created this since colorway is a weird topic - colors are NN and BFQ. I'm naming it "Surge".




Offline bocahgundul

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #86 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 05:16:08 »
Show Image


Just created this since colorway is a weird topic - colors are NN and BFQ. I'm naming it "Surge".

Show Image

Change the font to cherry and its all perfect  :p

Offline KoalaKaiser

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #87 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 05:21:44 »
To solve the icon/symbol ownership issue, and to cease the discussion towards "stolen art" even though the only art I ever used on an actual real production project without giving credit to the creator was PuLSE's logo, I have now bought the complete license to all of the icons linked by lucaslink in this thread plus the entire database of icons from The Noun Project.

I now have unlimited license to use the following icons:

• Leaf;
• Cosmonaut;
• Planet Earth;
• PuLSE's Logo;
• and every other icon that's featured on The Noun Project database.


I actually bought the premium membership, so I can download and use absolutely all of the icons (over 150,000 icons) displayed on the site without having to give credit to their respective creators, even for commercial use, reproduction and modification. Absolute and complete license. I didn't do this before because I didn't even know what the source for such icons was. You can pay $1,99 for each icon that you want or pay $9,99 for a monthly membership that can be canceled at any time. I chose the latter since my college will make good use of this account (and they are funding it anyway).

https://thenounproject.com/accounts/pricing/#

My position towards color schemes protection (and not ownership) remain and I'd like to hear back from Signature Plastics and other people's civil opinion about that.

Thanks for just linking us to the buy a membership page.

Offline baldgye

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #88 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 05:27:38 »
Wait, it's Christmas again already?!

Offline xondat

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #89 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 05:31:01 »
Show Image


Just created this since colorway is a weird topic - colors are NN and BFQ. I'm naming it "Surge".

Show Image

Change the font to cherry and its all perfect  :p



So I'll start the IC thread later today I guess. 1 person is enough interest!

Offline baldgye

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #90 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 05:34:55 »
Show Image


Just created this since colorway is a weird topic - colors are NN and BFQ. I'm naming it "Surge".

Show Image

Change the font to cherry and its all perfect  :p

Show Image


So I'll start the IC thread later today I guess. 1 person is enough interest!

ISO please

Offline Zambumon

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #91 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 05:35:43 »
In this thread some people have deviated from an important community question to (again) a personal interrogatory. I don't care how the hell this was started but the question was:

Quote
What happens if someone submits new paperwork / art for an existing colorway, naming it something else and either changing or eliminating novelties?

Quote
My question originally started with the policies of SP specifically.  What has been said explicitly is that SP will remove the set from regular production if requested.  They have not explicitly stated beyond that as far as I'm aware which is why my question came up.

 I'll try to expose my opinion the best I can.

Who owns a color way?

Legally, it has been demonstrated in this thread by multiple members that you cannot own a color way, unless as zslane stated:

Quote
1. You can not copyright, trademark, or patent a color scheme unless it is combined with other distinctive elements that, together, form a corporate identity (e.g., magenta and orange, with the right typeface, combine to form the Dunkin' Donuts "identity"). It is possible that the graphics for individual keys could be copyrighted, but that protection would not extend to the set as a whole, and certainly not the color scheme.

Now, we are speaking about custom ABS and PBT keycaps manufactured by a company (Signature Plastics), which may or may not produce a keyset if they consider it appropiate:

Quote
*Not all keysets will be produced; production decisions are made at the discretion of the Pimp My Keyboard team.

 Source

 Signature Plastics has the last word. If they consider that a new keycap set is too similar to a previous one, or simply dislike it!, they decide whether it will produced or not regardless of what any of us could say.


Personally speaking and ignoring any laws, I don't think that anybody owns a color way. For instance, 1976 is based on a poster made by Sebastian Nordlund  which is a ripoff another original artwork… Instant_sunshine said something about the story of this color scheme over reddit 5 months ago). For me, a good set is a combination of a color scheme, back story, novelties, and child deals.
Can one set be similar to another? Sure.


But What would be your reaction if I posted something like this? If you answer this question, say the first thing it comes to your mind.
Quote
Hey guys, here is an idea that I've been having for a while, you know I am a music engineer who spends lots of times a day looking my computer screen producing songs. I thought it would be a good idea to have a keyset inspired by sound, which I called "Wave". Wave features an energetic color scheme featuring black Alphas and bright green modifiers. It will remind you of sound editors like Adobe Audition

Show Image


Show Image


It has a color scheme, novelties, back story (more or less, I did this in 10 minutes), and if this was serious, child deals.

Imagine if I picked the same idea and inverted the color scheme, what would you think about the set now? This is a tricky question, to be honest.

In conclusion, a color way isn't copyrighted,you can submit to SP a copy of another set but they will not manufacture it. What happens to similar color ways depends on the community and what they think about it, we should encourage sets with back stories, good novelties independently of their similarity with a color way, but there I also think that there are some lines that shouldn't be crossed.

PD: Please, don't make this another circle jerk thread.







 
« Last Edit: Mon, 18 January 2016, 05:41:08 by Zambumon »

Offline xondat

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #92 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 06:17:08 »
Show Image


Just created this since colorway is a weird topic - colors are NN and BFQ. I'm naming it "Surge".

Show Image

Change the font to cherry and its all perfect  :p

Show Image


So I'll start the IC thread later today I guess. 1 person is enough interest!

ISO please

Your wish is my pleasure -



Also why isn't this just sold as the standard kit - full ANSI/ISO compatibility.

Offline Lepidus

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #93 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 06:22:44 »
I don't remember if the image I used as reference was from some fancy unrealistic beat monitor (of course not a real one as no real wave/trace can have such pattern), a tattoo, an ambulance or whatever other kind of representation of a general symbol you can come up with after a Google search. One thing that I know is that it didn't have a source nor the ownership was claimed anywhere, and I understand what you're saying. It was never my intention to rip off the original creator. I was inspired by the symbol, thought it looked like an "M" and created one using circles and lines in such way that it represented a wave and an "M".

I used a general shape of a pulse icon as inspiration to create mine based on images that showed up after Google search. I do believe that it's not ok for other to reproduce keysets that are direct copy of others.

Show Image


I made a very similar, if not identical, leaf using shapes on Inkscape and it already existing is nothing but a coincidence. It's a general shape of a leaf and I won't be surprised if similar leaves are used anywhere.

You know, if you had just said 'oh yeah i used those icons' I think most of us would've been like 'ok cool whatever who cares.' but now you're claiming to have made the leaf?!

below are 2 screenshots from this http://i.imgur.com/NUJfow8.png godspeed IC image with the original icons overlaid.

Show Image

Show Image


lol, this is embarrassing.


Now, we are speaking about custom ABS and PBT keycaps manufactured by a company (Signature Plastics), which may or may not produce a keyset if they consider it appropiate:

Quote
*Not all keysets will be produced; production decisions are made at the discretion of the Pimp My Keyboard team.

 Source

 Signature Plastics has the last word. If they consider that a new keycap set is too similar to a previous one, or simply dislike it!, they decide whether it will produced or not regardless of what any of us could say

I guess the real question is regarding what SP limits are. For example, they had no problem allowing Think Different to happen, while pretty much everybody can see the similarities with granite. With their stock dyesub dsa sets, for sale at pmk, you can even get the same alphas/mods colors.
« Last Edit: Mon, 18 January 2016, 07:03:17 by Lepidus »

Offline KoalaKaiser

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #94 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 06:43:35 »
Show Image


Just created this since colorway is a weird topic - colors are NN and BFQ. I'm naming it "Surge".

Show Image

Change the font to cherry and its all perfect  :p

Show Image


So I'll start the IC thread later today I guess. 1 person is enough interest!

ISO please

Your wish is my pleasure -

Show Image


Also why isn't this just sold as the standard kit - full ANSI/ISO compatibility.


This has all the koalas in the world backing this keyset. Marsupial guarantee.

Offline hwood34

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #95 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 10:51:03 »
you make keysets quit taking yourself so ****ing seriously
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Offline Bromono

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #96 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 10:55:11 »
I am an internet lawyer and I say no.

This is done.

Lock thread.

Offline absyrd

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #97 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 10:55:29 »
I'm just here so I don't get fined.
My wife I a also push her button . But now she have her button push by a different men. So I buy a keyboard a mechanicale, she a reliable like a Fiat.

Offline zslane

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #98 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 11:48:25 »
Does anyone know of a keycap set that tanked during the interest check phase solely because its colorway was the same as a pre-existing set?

Offline Steezus

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Re: Who owns a colorway?
« Reply #99 on: Mon, 18 January 2016, 11:52:20 »
Does anyone know of a keycap set that tanked during the interest check phase solely because its colorway was the same as a pre-existing set?

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77999.0;topicseen

It went to GB phase but was then put on hold.