V60 Matias Mini with Quiet's: worth it?

[iLLucionist]

There's a massdrop for the V60 Matias Mini with Quiets but it has ABS... is it worth it if you've never tried Matias's switches? They are ALPS, right? (I know little of them). But can I get custom PBT caps for them later? Or are they as scarce as topre caps?

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/v60-matias-mini-keyboard

[FLFisherman]

Link for those without account or who aren't logged in.

They are indeed Alps (or Alps clones, I'm not entirely sure). I think Alps caps are even more scarce than Topre caps. However, sometimes you'll see group buys for Alps boards pop up, such as Alpine Winter that just finished.

[iLLucionist]

Link for those without account or who aren't logged in.

They are indeed Alps (or Alps clones, I'm not entirely sure). I think Alps caps are even more scarce than Topre caps. However, sometimes you'll see group buys for Alps boards pop up, such as Alpine Winter that just finished.

Thanks for the fixed link, didn't knew about that. I cannot stand ABS. Not to be elitist, but I just hate the feel and the shine.. So I'd only buy this board if I could get PBT's (or anything else than ABS). Damm..

[merlin64]

Unfortunately your PBT options are limited to scrounging ebay and junkyards for old ALPS boards that have PBT keycaps.

However Matias did mention that they are getting PBT keycaps sometime...but that's been in the works since 2014-2015. Don't know how soon that will occur.

Matias Quiet Clicks are great. They are definitely more tactile than Cherry MX clear or ergo clear variants. I owned one a few months ago, but I let it go in favor of my alps64 build with Brown ALPS switches which are even more tactile.

One thing to note, because it's a plastic case, for some reason that and the combination of the quiet click makes the keyboard feel really cheap. You might have a better experience if you put it in a metal 60% case (all should be compatible). I've never tried the regular non quiet click version.

[iLLucionist]

Unfortunately your PBT options are limited to scrounging ebay and junkyards for old ALPS boards that have PBT keycaps.

However Matias did mention that they are getting PBT keycaps sometime...but that's been in the works since 2014-2015. Don't know how soon that will occur.

Matias Quiet Clicks are great. They are definitely more tactile than Cherry MX clear or ergo clear variants. I owned one a few months ago, but I let it go in favor of my alps64 build with Brown ALPS switches which are even more tactile.

One thing to note, because it's a plastic case, for some reason that and the combination of the quiet click makes the keyboard feel really cheap. You might have a better experience if you put it in a metal 60% case (all should be compatible). I've never tried the regular non quiet click version.

Thanks for the details! Hmm.. makes me wanna hold off. Are they even plate-mounted?

[merlin64]

Yes, all ALPS switches need to be plate mounted. You're not going to find any other ALPS board out there currently in that form factor without building one yourself.

The other option is to buy the ALPS to mx converter stems on shapeways then you can put your MX compatible keycaps on your ALPS board!

[zefyr]

Unfortunately your PBT options are limited to scrounging ebay and junkyards for old ALPS boards that have PBT keycaps.

However Matias did mention that they are getting PBT keycaps sometime...but that's been in the works since 2014-2015. Don't know how soon that will occur.

Matias Quiet Clicks are great. They are definitely more tactile than Cherry MX clear or ergo clear variants. I owned one a few months ago, but I let it go in favor of my alps64 build with Brown ALPS switches which are even more tactile.

One thing to note, because it's a plastic case, for some reason that and the combination of the quiet click makes the keyboard feel really cheap. You might have a better experience if you put it in a metal 60% case (all should be compatible). I've never tried the regular non quiet click version.

Thanks for the details! Hmm.. makes me wanna hold off. Are they even plate-mounted?

Alps (even cloned one) should be mounted to be functional.
And I tried matias quiet, it was no good for me. Stroke is too short because of big damper. And as I heard, V60's keycap uses different type of stabilizer with vintage alps.

[iLLucionist]

Unfortunately your PBT options are limited to scrounging ebay and junkyards for old ALPS boards that have PBT keycaps.

However Matias did mention that they are getting PBT keycaps sometime...but that's been in the works since 2014-2015. Don't know how soon that will occur.

Matias Quiet Clicks are great. They are definitely more tactile than Cherry MX clear or ergo clear variants. I owned one a few months ago, but I let it go in favor of my alps64 build with Brown ALPS switches which are even more tactile.

One thing to note, because it's a plastic case, for some reason that and the combination of the quiet click makes the keyboard feel really cheap. You might have a better experience if you put it in a metal 60% case (all should be compatible). I've never tried the regular non quiet click version.

Thanks for the details! Hmm.. makes me wanna hold off. Are they even plate-mounted?

Alps (even cloned one) should be mounted to be functional.
And I tried matias quiet, it was no good for me. Stroke is too short because of big damper. And as I heard, V60's keycap uses different type of stabilizer with vintage alps.

Hmmm... doesn't sound like the right board to try alps / matias quiet then unfortunately..

[Blaise170]

Unfortunately your PBT options are limited to scrounging ebay and junkyards for old ALPS boards that have PBT keycaps.

However Matias did mention that they are getting PBT keycaps sometime...but that's been in the works since 2014-2015. Don't know how soon that will occur.

Matias Quiet Clicks are great. They are definitely more tactile than Cherry MX clear or ergo clear variants. I owned one a few months ago, but I let it go in favor of my alps64 build with Brown ALPS switches which are even more tactile.

One thing to note, because it's a plastic case, for some reason that and the combination of the quiet click makes the keyboard feel really cheap. You might have a better experience if you put it in a metal 60% case (all should be compatible). I've never tried the regular non quiet click version.

Thanks for the details! Hmm.. makes me wanna hold off. Are they even plate-mounted?

Alps (even cloned one) should be mounted to be functional.
And I tried matias quiet, it was no good for me. Stroke is too short because of big damper. And as I heard, V60's keycap uses different type of stabilizer with vintage alps.

The V60 uses the same stabs as the old Dells and AEK I and II IIRC. The Tai Hao sets fit mine perfectly.

[merlin64]

The only ALPS boards readily available are from Matias and KBP.

The only reason I gave mine up was I liked brown alps more (almost impossible to find) and I wanted to build my own board.

[iLLucionist]

I thought I good buy an ALPS quick-n-dirty, but I guess I need to do more homework. I don't really like the matias designs though... they seem so dated and not really clean / minimalistic in my opinion. But I am curious about the tactile quiets...

[axtran]

Matias QC is one of the best tactile switches, in my opinion. Definitely worth a shot if you've never tried tactile or have yet to try ALPS-style switches.

[zefyr]

Unfortunately your PBT options are limited to scrounging ebay and junkyards for old ALPS boards that have PBT keycaps.

However Matias did mention that they are getting PBT keycaps sometime...but that's been in the works since 2014-2015. Don't know how soon that will occur.

Matias Quiet Clicks are great. They are definitely more tactile than Cherry MX clear or ergo clear variants. I owned one a few months ago, but I let it go in favor of my alps64 build with Brown ALPS switches which are even more tactile.

One thing to note, because it's a plastic case, for some reason that and the combination of the quiet click makes the keyboard feel really cheap. You might have a better experience if you put it in a metal 60% case (all should be compatible). I've never tried the regular non quiet click version.

Thanks for the details! Hmm.. makes me wanna hold off. Are they even plate-mounted?

Alps (even cloned one) should be mounted to be functional.
And I tried matias quiet, it was no good for me. Stroke is too short because of big damper. And as I heard, V60's keycap uses different type of stabilizer with vintage alps.

The V60 uses the same stabs as the old Dells and AEK I and II IIRC. The Tai Hao sets fit mine perfectly.

Thanks for fixing my information
Now I have interest of V60. haha

[klennkellon]

Link for those without account or who aren't logged in.

They are indeed Alps (or Alps clones, I'm not entirely sure). I think Alps caps are even more scarce than Topre caps. However, sometimes you'll see group buys for Alps boards pop up, such as Alpine Winter that just finished.

Thanks for the fixed link, didn't knew about that. I cannot stand ABS. Not to be elitist, but I just hate the feel and the shine.. So I'd only buy this board if I could get PBT's (or anything else than ABS). Damm..

ALPS are actually known to sound best with thin ABS, especially the clicky switches.

There are some old vintage ALPS boards that have PBT keycaps, the Apple Extended Keyboard and SGI Granites, some AppleDesign boards used a rubber dome switch that is ALPS compatible. And some Dell AT-101's, but most will be Laser Etched ABS.

[iLLucionist]

Link for those without account or who aren't logged in.

They are indeed Alps (or Alps clones, I'm not entirely sure). I think Alps caps are even more scarce than Topre caps. However, sometimes you'll see group buys for Alps boards pop up, such as Alpine Winter that just finished.

Thanks for the fixed link, didn't knew about that. I cannot stand ABS. Not to be elitist, but I just hate the feel and the shine.. So I'd only buy this board if I could get PBT's (or anything else than ABS). Damm..

ALPS are actually known to sound best with thin ABS, especially the clicky switches.

There are some old vintage ALPS boards that have PBT keycaps, the Apple Extended Keyboard and SGI Granites, some AppleDesign boards used a rubber dome switch that is ALPS compatible. And some Dell AT-101's, but most will be Laser Etched ABS.

Thanks for the info. But why do they sound better with ABS?

[Hypersphere]

I like Matias Quiet and Matias Click switches very much. They are both good, but I have a preference for the Click variety. I prefer either of these switches over any variety of Cherry mx switch. The tactility feels genuine and pronounced.

I have a recent V60MTS-C that has 3 mounting holes for aftermarket cases; recently, I installed it in a TEX aluminum case. To my surprise, I prefer the sound and feel of the V60MTS-C in the original plastic case.

For the alpha caps, I harvest PBTs from vintage Alps keyboards. For mods and spacebars, I use blank black ABS from Matias. This combination works quite well.

[merlin64]

I harvest as well, but I only try to harvest from boards that aren't rare. I feel bad enough already stripping old Apple boards haha.

Old doubleshot keycaps work just as well too. They seem to have been made better back then.

[spanyam]

Also, pimpmykeyboard sells PBT ALPS keycaps in both DSA and DCS variants, though you'll need no buy them in packs of individual sizes. Using this plus a combination of alphas harvested from old boards will give you a full PBT set.

[flabbergast]

As far as I know, the DCS from SP are not PBT but ABS, and relatively thin. And I didn't see DSA 1.25u or 2.75u ALPS keycaps on their website; also there's only 6u spacebar. So... not that useful if you want to get a usable keyset.

[spanyam]

As far as I know, the DCS from SP are not PBT but ABS, and relatively thin. And I didn't see DSA 1.25u or 2.75u ALPS keycaps on their website; also there's only 6u spacebar. So... not that useful if you want to get a usable keyset.

Oh didn't know DCS were abs. As for DSA, the only full layout you can build is the hhkb style layout in ANSI.

[flabbergast]

Ah right! So these DSA caps that SP sells are leftovers of the run they've done for the Infinity Keyboard (hacker layout) on MassDrop. (Well maybe they keep making them, but this is pretty much the only actual keyboard that uses these, apart from customs.)

EDIT: Coming back to the original topic: I love Matias Quiet Click switches, some days even more than Topre. To try them out, getting a V60MTS is a good move I'd say - these are relatively cheap and possible to sell. If you're serious about them and don't mind blank caps and waiting, then Infinity is a way to go.

[spanyam]

 Yup exactly. They're decent quality caps though, so it's nice.

[jcoffin1981]

I a few V60's and I love them, but they have gateron switches.  I replaced the key caps with Leopolds and it  feels amazing.  The stock keycaps are a little cheap feeling, and as others have said finding replacements will be difficult.

The reason I never pulled  the trigger on the Matias switches is that towards the bottom of  the keystroke the resistance actually decreases, which i s contrary to most others.  I did not know if I would like it or not,  plus I like   a really light switch and felt they may be too stiff for me.

[xtrafrood]

I like Matias Quiet and Matias Click switches very much. They are both good, but I have a preference for the Click variety. I prefer either of these switches over any variety of Cherry mx switch. The tactility feels genuine and pronounced.

I have a recent V60MTS-C that has 3 mounting holes for aftermarket cases; recently, I installed it in a TEX aluminum case. To my surprise, I prefer the sound and feel of the V60MTS-C in the original plastic case.

For the alpha caps, I harvest PBTs from vintage Alps keyboards. For mods and spacebars, I use blank black ABS from Matias. This combination works quite well.

So, you were able to change out the case of your Matias KB Paradise V60 keyboard? I read that someone had some alignment issues when they tried to change out the case on their Matias V60. I'm guessing that this is not a problem.

An upgrade by KB Paradise perhaps? 

Source: (also lots of info on the V60)
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80382.0

[klennkellon]

Link for those without account or who aren't logged in.

They are indeed Alps (or Alps clones, I'm not entirely sure). I think Alps caps are even more scarce than Topre caps. However, sometimes you'll see group buys for Alps boards pop up, such as Alpine Winter that just finished.

Thanks for the fixed link, didn't knew about that. I cannot stand ABS. Not to be elitist, but I just hate the feel and the shine.. So I'd only buy this board if I could get PBT's (or anything else than ABS). Damm..

ALPS are actually known to sound best with thin ABS, especially the clicky switches.

There are some old vintage ALPS boards that have PBT keycaps, the Apple Extended Keyboard and SGI Granites, some AppleDesign boards used a rubber dome switch that is ALPS compatible. And some Dell AT-101's, but most will be Laser Etched ABS.

Thanks for the info. But why do they sound better with ABS?

Late response, sorry.

They just do, the way the sound goes through the keycap gives a characteristic sound. It makes them sound like "generic typing.wav" keyboards you'd hear from a movie or something.

[Hypersphere]

@csmertx: According to a rep from KBP, the V60MTS keyboards sold since January 2016 through Mechanicalkeyboards.com have been updated so that they can be installed in aftermarket cases such as the TEX aluminum cases for 60% keyboards. The updated V60MTS keyboards have 3 mounting holes rather than just one. This is an improvement, but they still do not accommodate all 6 mounting points.

Although my initial impression was that I actually preferred the sound of the V60MTS-C in its original plastic case, I am typing now on a V60MTS-C in a TEX aluminum case (the model with the thin bezel all around) and the sound and feel are starting to win me over.   

[xtrafrood]

@csmertx: According to a rep from KBP, the V60MTS keyboards sold since January 2016 through Mechanicalkeyboards.com have been updated so that they can be installed in aftermarket cases such as the TEX aluminum cases for 60% keyboards. The updated V60MTS keyboards have 3 mounting holes rather than just one. This is an improvement, but they still do not accommodate all 6 mounting points.

Although my initial impression was that I actually preferred the sound of the V60MTS-C in its original plastic case, I am typing now on a V60MTS-C in a TEX aluminum case (the model with the thin bezel all around) and the sound and feel are starting to win me over.   

Awesome! 

[Hypersphere]

I've spent a quiet Saturday fiddling with my V60MTS boards (Matias Click and Matias Quiet). After transplanting the V60-MTS-C into a TEX thin-lip aluminum case, I decided to put it back into the stock plastic case, with some modifications. I am now rather satisfied with the result. The metal case seems to make the switches sound higher-pitched, like Cherry mx blues. I prefer a somewhat deeper sound, which is what I get with the stock plastic case.

After many back and forth comparisons between V60s with Matias Click and Matias Quiet switches, as before I still give the edge to the Clicks. The extra auditory feedback of the Clicks seems to help my typing, and I don't like the rubbery feel of the downstroke with the Quiet switches. I speculate that a hybrid switch with damping only on the return stroke would be ideal (for me).

Here are the modifications I've made to the V60MTS-C:

+ Feet on bottom rear corners: 3M round self-adhesive bumpers, 5/8" wide x 5/16" high. This provides an ideal typing angle for me.
+ Feet on bottom front corners: stock strips of self-adhesive anti-skid foam rubber.
+ Inside of case: 1/8-inch thick silicone rubber foam between inside bottom of case and the PCB.
+ Alphanumeric keycaps: Dyesub PBT from vintage Alps-switch keyboard.
+ Modifiers and spacebar: Black blank ABS purchased from Matias except for Red Esc from SP and White on Black "Menu" key from Tai-Hao Dolch in bottom right corner to serve as the Fn key.
+ Spacebar: Installed a blue O-ring on the switch and put self-adhesive foam strips inside the spacebar for sound damping.

Sounds, feels, and looks good! The only improvement I might make on this would be to replace the Matias Click switch under the spacebar with a Matias Quiet Switch. It would be nice if this could be an option from KBP. In addition, eventually I would like to replace the ABS mods and spacebar with PBT -- I hope that Matias will be selling these before the next millennium!

[zombimuncha]

After many back and forth comparisons between V60s with Matias Click and Matias Quiet switches, as before I still give the edge to the Clicks. The extra auditory feedback of the Clicks seems to help my typing, and I don't like the rubbery feel of the downstroke with the Quiet switches. I speculate that a hybrid switch with damping only on the return stroke would be ideal (for me).

I tried that, and have it on my v80 right now: Click switch with dampened slider from the QuietClick switch, but with the damper clipped at the bottom so it clacks only on the downstroke. I also put the lighter coil spring from the QuietClick switch in. I don't like it at all. I can't figure out if its the lack of the upstroke clatter, or the lighter weight, or the combination of the two that I don't like, so I don't really know which mod to undo first. And undoing either of them is a lot of work, so I'm procrastinating a little....

Here are the modifications I've made to the V60MTS-C:

+ Feet on bottom rear corners: 3M round self-adhesive bumpers, 5/8" wide x 5/16" high. This provides an ideal typing angle for me.
+ Feet on bottom front corners: stock strips of self-adhesive anti-skid foam rubber.
+ Inside of case: 1/8-inch thick silicone rubber foam between inside bottom of case and the PCB.
+ Alphanumeric keycaps: Dyesub PBT from vintage Alps-switch keyboard.
+ Modifiers and spacebar: Black blank ABS purchased from Matias except for Red Esc from SP and White on Black "Menu" key from Tai-Hao Dolch in bottom right corner to serve as the Fn key.
+ Spacebar: Installed a blue O-ring on the switch and put self-adhesive foam strips inside the spacebar for sound damping.

How much difference does the foam inside the case make with these Matias switches? How does it alter the feel? And the sound?
And the PBTs? How do they alter the feel and sound?

Sounds, feels, and looks good! The only improvement I might make on this would be to replace the Matias Click switch under the spacebar with a Matias Quiet Switch. It would be nice if this could be an option from KBP. In addition, eventually I would like to replace the ABS mods and spacebar with PBT -- I hope that Matias will be selling these before the next millennium!

[xtrafrood]

I've spent a quiet Saturday fiddling with my V60MTS boards (Matias Click and Matias Quiet). After transplanting the V60-MTS-C into a TEX thin-lip aluminum case, I decided to put it back into the stock plastic case, with some modifications. I am now rather satisfied with the result. The metal case seems to make the switches sound higher-pitched, like Cherry mx blues. I prefer a somewhat deeper sound, which is what I get with the stock plastic case.

After many back and forth comparisons between V60s with Matias Click and Matias Quiet switches, as before I still give the edge to the Clicks. The extra auditory feedback of the Clicks seems to help my typing, and I don't like the rubbery feel of the downstroke with the Quiet switches. I speculate that a hybrid switch with damping only on the return stroke would be ideal (for me).

Here are the modifications I've made to the V60MTS-C:

+ Feet on bottom rear corners: 3M round self-adhesive bumpers, 5/8" wide x 5/16" high. This provides an ideal typing angle for me.
+ Feet on bottom front corners: stock strips of self-adhesive anti-skid foam rubber.
+ Inside of case: 1/8-inch thick silicone rubber foam between inside bottom of case and the PCB.
+ Alphanumeric keycaps: Dyesub PBT from vintage Alps-switch keyboard.
+ Modifiers and spacebar: Black blank ABS purchased from Matias except for Red Esc from SP and White on Black "Menu" key from Tai-Hao Dolch in bottom right corner to serve as the Fn key.
+ Spacebar: Installed a blue O-ring on the switch and put self-adhesive foam strips inside the spacebar for sound damping.

Sounds, feels, and looks good! The only improvement I might make on this would be to replace the Matias Click switch under the spacebar with a Matias Quiet Switch. It would be nice if this could be an option from KBP. In addition, eventually I would like to replace the ABS mods and spacebar with PBT -- I hope that Matias will be selling these before the next millennium!

I've had my eye on the matias taihao olivetti v60 for a while now. That and an acrylic case if I don't cave to Pok3r or HHKB  )

[Malenky]

If the V60's came with PBT caps I would probably buy one instantly. Heck, even if the pricetag was a fair bit higher. I really want to try out Alps style switches but I don't want to be left with a keyboard that is essentially unuseable due to terrible caps.

[Hypersphere]

@zombimuncha: I am less certain about the effect of the silicone foam than I am about other modifications. I should have done some objective comparisons including sound recordings before and after, but I didn't take the time for such measures. Now it is done, the sound is acceptable to me. Therefore, I don't think I will reverse the steps to remove the foam.

Thanks for sharing your experience with the modified switch under the spacebar. This makes me feel better about my current setup -- that it is probably better to leave well enough alone.

@csmertx: I have a Poker II and a Pok3r, and neither one excites me. The V60 with Matias switches is much more interesting. However, the one I keep returning to again and again is my HHKB (with my Silencing Rings, lubed stabilizers and switch rails, and shock absorbers under the spacebar). For me, the HHKB has it all -- 60% form factor, best layout ever, excellent Topre switches, beautiful keycaps that form a functional unit with the switches, and overall aesthetic design.