Decisions! Help me choose keyboad future (Exchange? Cherry? Topre? HHKB?)

[bmilcs]

 

I love mechanical keyboards!

Alright here's where I'm at:

My first keyboard was a Cherry MX Red K70. I hated Reds and sold it. Next up, I got a KUL ES-87 w/ Clears and really loved it. I wanted to learn to solder and modify it to be perfect and in the process ruined the wire housing so it is out of action for some time. In the meantime, I purchased a Pok3r w/ MX Blues, which as a keyboard, I really LOVE the programming functionality. However, blues are too light for me. I have a heavy hand.

From Massdrop, I have a Gateron blanks, Pulse & Granite on the way so I can swap between the various profiles and find my favorite.

Here's my dilemma. I am still in the time window to exchange my Pok3r and upgrade to the BELOVED HHKB. I keep hearing about these damn boards and I feel like my best opportunity to get one would be now with the funds from my Pok3r.

What would you do if you were me?

A) Keep the Pok3r w/ blues, modify w/ clear springs, lube, etc.
B) Return the Pok3r and get an HHKB
C) Keep the Pok3r and start working toward a completely custom board with my new soldering skills

Bare in mind, I am not wealthy. I can budget well and end up doing any of the above but I can't decide what my best course of action would be. I work from home 40 hours a week on the computer, data entry and so on, and also game and use the PC for pleasure afterwards.

I am heavy handed and light switches cause me to bottom out hard which cause my fingers / joints / bones to feel kinda sore after a while. I did not have this issue with clears.

Ah I don't know what to do! With all of my keycaps on the way, I feel like I'd be so bummed because I couldn't use them on a HHKB.

Is the HHKB fully programmable?

Programming macros and longer text strings boost my job performance substantially. The 25 character limit on the Pok3r is too small. Also, if I could someone have 2 copy/paste options where I could hold 2 variables at the same time, I could speed up my work as well.

[FLFisherman]

Return the Pok3r, get a Pok3r with MX Greens (heavier than blues).

The HHKB has a lot of hype behind it, but it is not the "end all, be all" of keyboards. You may not like Topre switches, and no, it's not fully programmable.

[CPTBadAss]

The HHKB has a lot of hype behind it, but it is not the "end all, be all" of keyboards. You may not like Topre switches, and no, it's not fully programmable.

Well...that's not 100% true. There's at least 3 different ways to make it fully programmable:

1) Hasu's USB to USB converter and njbair's review about it

2) Hasu's controller

3) Smasher816's writeup on how to mod the HHKB with a Teensy for programmability

[bmilcs]

Return the Pok3r, get a Pok3r with MX Greens (heavier than blues).

The HHKB has a lot of hype behind it, but it is not the "end all, be all" of keyboards. You may not like Topre switches, and no, it's not fully programmable.

I want to do this but I purchased the board from Amazon and I did not see an MX Green variant from there.

The Infinity 60% custom board looks like a superb option.

[FLFisherman]

The HHKB has a lot of hype behind it, but it is not the "end all, be all" of keyboards. You may not like Topre switches, and no, it's not fully programmable.

Well...that's not 100% true. There's at least 3 different ways to make it fully programmable:

1) Hasu's USB to USB converter and njbair's review about it

2) Hasu's controller

3) Smasher816's writeup on how to mod the HHKB with a Teensy for programmability

Many other keyboards also have the option to make them full programmable with aftermarket modifications or converters. I guess I should clarify: unlike the Pok3r, the HHKB is not fully programmable out-of-the-box.

[CPTBadAss]

Since I'm still playing with semantics, I thought the Pok3r wasn't able to have it's base layer reprogrammed. It's just the other layers that can be programmed right? Or am I mistaken? I can't remember.

[FLFisherman]

Since I'm still playing with semantics, I thought the Pok3r wasn't able to have it's base layer reprogrammed. It's just the other layers that can be programmed right? Or am I mistaken? I can't remember.

Hmm, I'm not sure, actually. We'll have to wait on an expert. 

[CPTBadAss]

And on topic OP, I'd just get the MX-mount of your choice and solder them into the Pok3r. Or get a V60 with Matias Quiets

Edit:

Since I'm still playing with semantics, I thought the Pok3r wasn't able to have it's base layer reprogrammed. It's just the other layers that can be programmed right? Or am I mistaken? I can't remember.

Hmm, I'm not sure, actually. We'll have to wait on an expert. 

A glance at the manual reveals that the base layer cannot be re-programmed. So to end my technicality arguments (and stop being annoying), I wouldn't call the Pok3r *fully* programmable out of the box. Fully programmable means I can make the sadster keyboard

[bmilcs]

The Pok3r v1.5 firmware is pretty cool. Base layer is stock default, and swapping between layers is a simple FN+< > ? combo. So 3 programmable layers. I've only dived into one.

How good is the custom firmware / hacks for the HHKB? Is setting up the keys easy like the Infinity where you can map out everything??

I need to be able to bind things such as

"Unavailable / discontinued. Similar item provided."
"Quantity / price adjusted to match item description."

To single key combos.

[bmilcs]

1.5 sports media keys, backlighting keys, menu key...

Up to 25 characters I believe per custom macro.

FN key = my caps lock

I actually use the dreaded Window key a lot to move windows around, minimize all open windows / get to the desktop, etc. It can come in handy

[bmilcs]

One last thing, what is the heaviest switch option available on the HHKB? Are the switches in the HHKB unique to the brand or are they just standard Topre that I could build in a custom?

Also, are there ways of using Cherry MX keycaps on Topre? Converter of some type?

Bottoming out is nice and soft on Topre yes? Unlike Cherry MX.

Edit: Sorry for 21 questions! I know the info out there is bountiful but I'm technically on the clock and quickly asking before I get back to it. Then after work I have to start dinner for the kids and clean the house for my wife before she gets home. Then I collapse. Very limited free time for "Bryan Time".

[bmilcs]

Oops.

[FLFisherman]

One last thing, what is the heaviest switch option available on the HHKB? Are the switches in the HHKB unique to the brand or are they just standard Topre that I could build in a custom?

Also, are there ways of using Cherry MX keycaps on Topre? Converter of some type?

I don't think you can build a custom Topre board yet. The switches in the HHKB are 45g. You can use MX keycaps on it if you get Topre-MX sliders (however, you'll have to make some modifications to the board to get them to work on the spacebar).

[CPTBadAss]

You could swap in 55g Topre domes into your HHKB.

[Vittra]

Regarding the pok3r - the default layer 1 is not programmable. What you do is switch to layer 2, 3, or 4, and then program that layer to be what you would like, and use it as your default.

It's not as elegant as a fully programmable controller, but it will accomplish the same thing - more or less.

I think if budget is a concern, buying a HHKB and then being forced to buy an aftermarket controller on top of that can be very rough. bcmils could use that money to buy 2 or perhaps even 3 other mechanical keyboards to try out... its something worth considering.

Of course there is also the concern of Topre ruining other switches for you. I switched back to my mx reds after using my XF140S for about a week and I'm astonished. Still great for gaming and I type insanely fast with them - but I do not enjoy the feel of typing at all anymore on them. Clackedty clackclackclack

Edit - took me forever to write this apparently, plenty of responses since then 

[bmilcs]

Regarding the pok3r - the default layer 1 is not programmable. What you do is switch to layer 2, 3, or 4, and then program that layer to be what you would like, and use it as your default.

It's not as elegant as a fully programmable controller, but it will accomplish the same thing - more or less.

I think if budget is a concern, buying a HHKB and then being forced to buy an aftermarket controller on top of that can be very rough. bcmils could use that money to buy 2 or perhaps even 3 other mechanical keyboards to try out... its something worth considering.

Of course there is also the concern of Topre ruining other switches for you. I switched back to my mx reds after using my XF140S for about a week and I'm astonished. Still great for gaming and I type insanely fast with them - but I do not enjoy the feel of typing at all anymore on them. Clackedty clackclackclack

Edit - took me forever to write this apparently, plenty of responses since then 

Interesting points. I have my KUL ES-87 w/ clears which  is being lubed, modded with 78g SPRiTs, stab clipped and so on. I will most likely be gaming with this primary. I am looking for a 'work' keyboard with programming and ultra typing accuracy/comfort. Bottoming out on these blues is really making my sore hands as I said.

Since Topre are so light, how is bottoming out on them? Is it nice and soft?

[mobbo]

Regarding the pok3r - the default layer 1 is not programmable. What you do is switch to layer 2, 3, or 4, and then program that layer to be what you would like, and use it as your default.

It's not as elegant as a fully programmable controller, but it will accomplish the same thing - more or less.

I think if budget is a concern, buying a HHKB and then being forced to buy an aftermarket controller on top of that can be very rough. bcmils could use that money to buy 2 or perhaps even 3 other mechanical keyboards to try out... its something worth considering.

Of course there is also the concern of Topre ruining other switches for you. I switched back to my mx reds after using my XF140S for about a week and I'm astonished. Still great for gaming and I type insanely fast with them - but I do not enjoy the feel of typing at all anymore on them. Clackedty clackclackclack

Edit - took me forever to write this apparently, plenty of responses since then 

Interesting points. I have my KUL ES-87 w/ clears which  is being lubed, modded with 78g SPRiTs, stab clipped and so on. I will most likely be gaming with this primary. I am looking for a 'work' keyboard with programming and ultra typing accuracy/comfort. Bottoming out on these blues is really making my sore hands as I said.

Since Topre are so light, how is bottoming out on them? Is it nice and soft?

Like boobs. Nice firm miniature boobs.

Have you considered the Ergodox? As I understand it's fully programmable - you would be able to have fun assembling it with whatever switches you desire (sounds like ergo clears/greens), and you also will have a board you can put those incoming keycap sets on!

I've heard it's one of the better boards for programming, especially the ergonomic benefit.

Don't want to throw a wrench in everything though! Between the Pok3r and HHKB, I don't think it's even a real comparison (having owned both). But that's to be expected given the price discrepancy.

edit: might be a good read: https://gist.github.com/datagrok/8130501

[demik]

HHKB

[bmilcs]

Ergodox seems very, very cool.

But it strays so far away from the standard keyboard layout that it's intimidating.

My goal is ultimate comfort, accuracy, and satisfaction.

IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK??? 

[mobbo]

Ergodox seems very, very cool.

But it strays so far away from the standard keyboard layout that it's intimidating.

My goal is ultimate comfort, accuracy, and satisfaction.

IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK??? 

Think about how intimidating you will look to other programmers with that thing.


And yes, that is MUCH too much ask. The proverbial search for the holy grail keyboard is one that has led many down a path of wretched ruin....

[The Hobbiest]

From Massdrop, I have a Gateron blanks, Pulse & Granite on the way so I can swap between the various profiles and find my favorite.

Are these sets you got topre compatible?

[mobbo]

From Massdrop, I have a Gateron blanks, Pulse & Granite on the way so I can swap between the various profiles and find my favorite.

Are these sets you got topre compatible?

None of them are.

Unless you are interested in a Novatouch and/or harvesting it's stems to transplant into a RF or HHKB.

[bmilcs]

Aye. If I were to stay on the Cherry MX Route, what do you think my best bet would be? Cherry MX Red & Blue are too light. Clear was very, very nice... maybe a hint too hard... hence I await 78g spring arrivals.

My only working board is the Pok3r at the moment. Amazon is my favorite but sadly limits my exchange options.

What would you do in my shoes?

[axtran]

Aye. If I were to stay on the Cherry MX Route, what do you think my best bet would be? Cherry MX Red & Blue are too light. Clear was very, very nice... maybe a hint too hard... hence I await 78g spring arrivals.

My only working board is the Pok3r at the moment. Amazon is my favorite but sadly limits my exchange options.

What would you do in my shoes?

I never use stock weighting, but I do select the type of stem that I prefer. Do you like Linear, Tactile, or Click? If you're up in the air about what you want, I recommend just building a custom, because doing the modification to an already-made board can either cause issues (in your case, it seems) or it will be an unnecessary amount of work.

In the realm of 60%, mechanicalkeyboards.com sells FaceW PCBs, which are compatible with Poker 60% cases. Pick your switches and get some stabilizers and be on your way.

[bmilcs]

Aye. If I were to stay on the Cherry MX Route, what do you think my best bet would be? Cherry MX Red & Blue are too light. Clear was very, very nice... maybe a hint too hard... hence I await 78g spring arrivals.

My only working board is the Pok3r at the moment. Amazon is my favorite but sadly limits my exchange options.

What would you do in my shoes?

I never use stock weighting, but I do select the type of stem that I prefer. Do you like Linear, Tactile, or Click? If you're up in the air about what you want, I recommend just building a custom, because doing the modification to an already-made board can either cause issues (in your case, it seems) or it will be an unnecessary amount of work.

In the realm of 60%, mechanicalkeyboards.com sells FaceW PCBs, which are compatible with Poker 60% cases. Pick your switches and get some stabilizers and be on your way.

So far, linears are not my bag. I loved Clears tactility. I am enjoying the click of the Pok3r but not the harsh bottoming out feel.

[mobbo]

Aye. If I were to stay on the Cherry MX Route, what do you think my best bet would be? Cherry MX Red & Blue are too light. Clear was very, very nice... maybe a hint too hard... hence I await 78g spring arrivals.

My only working board is the Pok3r at the moment. Amazon is my favorite but sadly limits my exchange options.

What would you do in my shoes?

I never use stock weighting, but I do select the type of stem that I prefer. Do you like Linear, Tactile, or Click? If you're up in the air about what you want, I recommend just building a custom, because doing the modification to an already-made board can either cause issues (in your case, it seems) or it will be an unnecessary amount of work.

In the realm of 60%, mechanicalkeyboards.com sells FaceW PCBs, which are compatible with Poker 60% cases. Pick your switches and get some stabilizers and be on your way.

So far, linears are not my bag. I loved Clears tactility. I am enjoying the click of the Pok3r but not the harsh bottoming out feel.

Does this sound like a mod you would be interested in? https://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Ergo_Clear

[bmilcs]

Aye. If I were to stay on the Cherry MX Route, what do you think my best bet would be? Cherry MX Red & Blue are too light. Clear was very, very nice... maybe a hint too hard... hence I await 78g spring arrivals.

My only working board is the Pok3r at the moment. Amazon is my favorite but sadly limits my exchange options.

What would you do in my shoes?

I never use stock weighting, but I do select the type of stem that I prefer. Do you like Linear, Tactile, or Click? If you're up in the air about what you want, I recommend just building a custom, because doing the modification to an already-made board can either cause issues (in your case, it seems) or it will be an unnecessary amount of work.

In the realm of 60%, mechanicalkeyboards.com sells FaceW PCBs, which are compatible with Poker 60% cases. Pick your switches and get some stabilizers and be on your way.

So far, linears are not my bag. I loved Clears tactility. I am enjoying the click of the Pok3r but not the harsh bottoming out feel.

Would it be cheaper to go the infinity route?

[axtran]

Would it be cheaper to go the infinity route?

Yes. But it's going to be quite a wait.

[bmilcs]

Aye. If I were to stay on the Cherry MX Route, what do you think my best bet would be? Cherry MX Red & Blue are too light. Clear was very, very nice... maybe a hint too hard... hence I await 78g spring arrivals.

My only working board is the Pok3r at the moment. Amazon is my favorite but sadly limits my exchange options.

What would you do in my shoes?

I never use stock weighting, but I do select the type of stem that I prefer. Do you like Linear, Tactile, or Click? If you're up in the air about what you want, I recommend just building a custom, because doing the modification to an already-made board can either cause issues (in your case, it seems) or it will be an unnecessary amount of work.

In the realm of 60%, mechanicalkeyboards.com sells FaceW PCBs, which are compatible with Poker 60% cases. Pick your switches and get some stabilizers and be on your way.

So far, linears are not my bag. I loved Clears tactility. I am enjoying the click of the Pok3r but not the harsh bottoming out feel.

Does this sound like a mod you would be interested in? https://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Ergo_Clear

Very much so

My KUL is in pieces right now doing just this. I completed the painstaking task of lubing 1/2 of the 87 switches, replacing the springs with 68g springs... wanting to stay true to the stock Clear feel but little less. The springs are actually heavier at actuation point than stock clear so I have some 78g SPRiT's on the way for that board.

[CPTBadAss]

Could always grab some Zealio Gaterons instead of modding your own Ergo-Clears

[bmilcs]

Wait wait wait...

So this controller that you need to install in a HHKB is simply a small PCB card that you screw / plug in???

Can you program a key to type out a text string such as "Hello world"?

[CPTBadAss]

Yeah it looks like a plug in. And yes, that's called a macro.

[__red__]

Obligatory IBM model F post.