Author Topic: Go for GMK or JTK  (Read 20154 times)

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Offline nubbinator

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Re: Go for GMK or JTK
« Reply #100 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 18:51:35 »
Probably because people expect something that's manufactured to be market ready unless it's explicitly stated that they know they're receiving a beta product and they're getting a discounted price to cover manufacturing cost and help fund changes.  Even though it was stated that the first set could have some slight errors, it was also stated that there would be strict QC.  Perhaps some people felt that the legend issues were more than slight errors or that the QC was not strict or that the legends on the Ctrl cap in the picture were not indicative of the legends on the final set they received.  I can't say why people feel the way they do, but that seems to be the main issue at play from what I've seen people say. 

That said, I haven't seen people saying to not support JTK though, just that there's room for improvement and that they'd take other manufacturers over JTK for now.  I think, perhaps, that the CtrlAlt team is misconstruing this because of their relationship with JTK.  What I see is people saying that they like the potential of a product, but that they won't recommend it as the go to product yet due to its flaws; however, once those issues are worked out, it should be a great alternative that's cheaper than GMK with similar quality.

I can say with me that I felt that the set and how it would look was oversold and that what I got was a little disappointing as a result.  That does not mean that I won't support JTK in the future should there be a set I like, but that until the legend issues get worked out or prices run closer to the $60 mark the original set ran at, I'd rather spend a little more and get GMK.

On the artisan comparison, I think people expect artisans to be a little rough when they start out, so it's okay.  I do think that the pricing of a lot of upstart artisans is obscene though and I really don't understand how people can pay $30+shipping or more for unproven or rough artisan caps.  That's just as much of a mystery to me.

Offline Tym

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Re: Go for GMK or JTK
« Reply #101 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 19:02:43 »
All valid points, thank you. I thought we made the first part clear, but it's good that you mentioned it, definitely something to take on board. I feel kinda naf  only writing a short reply, but I don't have no arguments to make :)
unless they have some unforeseeable downside (like they're actually made of cream cheese cunningly disguised as ABS)


Offline Ail

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Re: Go for GMK or JTK
« Reply #102 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:06:53 »
Semi-related point. Which I would like to use to address your final sentence.

People seem so happy to support new found "artisans"  but they're deadset against supporting JTK, they'll "leave it for now" as you say.

What I'm asking, why?

A bit of an apples and oranges comparison here. Artisans are imperfect intrinsically. Part of the sell on a handcrafted key is that it will look just that. On the other hand legends on key caps are supposed to look clean and consistent, so when they are not, people are going to point that out. Doesn't matter who is making them. I did, and do support JTK, but I also don't blame others for not wanting to spend $80 on a set of caps that some of the legends look like they were done with a sharpie. I mean, if being honest about the legends is ****ting on them, then guilty as charged. I paid $80 for my right to be critical of the product. I also made sure to leave them a 5 star review on Originative because despite the legends the keys are great quality.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Go for GMK or JTK
« Reply #103 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:14:31 »
Semi-related point. Which I would like to use to address your final sentence.

People seem so happy to support new found "artisans"  but they're deadset against supporting JTK, they'll "leave it for now" as you say.

What I'm asking, why?

A bit of an apples and oranges comparison here. Artisans are imperfect intrinsically. Part of the sell on a handcrafted key is that it will look just that. On the other hand legends on key caps are supposed to look clean and consistent, so when they are not, people are going to point that out. Doesn't matter who is making them. I did, and do support JTK, but I also don't blame others for not wanting to spend $80 on a set of caps that some of the legends look like they were done with a sharpie. I mean, if being honest about the legends is ****ting on them, then guilty as charged. I paid $80 for my right to be critical of the product. I also made sure to leave them a 5 star review on Originative because despite the legends the keys are great quality.

I wouldn't say JTK legends are that bad!

There are a few irregularities, but that is the case for many keycap sets I have.

The biggest difference I noticed is that between the doubleshot main set and the few windows pad-printed ones, but I can completely understand that they would look different.  The rest of the minor inconsistencies I hardly notice, even when squinting at the keyboard in the semi-darkness where I usually sit.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline Ail

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Re: Go for GMK or JTK
« Reply #104 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:40:55 »
Semi-related point. Which I would like to use to address your final sentence.

People seem so happy to support new found "artisans"  but they're deadset against supporting JTK, they'll "leave it for now" as you say.

What I'm asking, why?

A bit of an apples and oranges comparison here. Artisans are imperfect intrinsically. Part of the sell on a handcrafted key is that it will look just that. On the other hand legends on key caps are supposed to look clean and consistent, so when they are not, people are going to point that out. Doesn't matter who is making them. I did, and do support JTK, but I also don't blame others for not wanting to spend $80 on a set of caps that some of the legends look like they were done with a sharpie. I mean, if being honest about the legends is ****ting on them, then guilty as charged. I paid $80 for my right to be critical of the product. I also made sure to leave them a 5 star review on Originative because despite the legends the keys are great quality.

I wouldn't say JTK legends are that bad!

There are a few irregularities, but that is the case for many keycap sets I have.

The biggest difference I noticed is that between the doubleshot main set and the few windows pad-printed ones, but I can completely understand that they would look different.  The rest of the minor inconsistencies I hardly notice, even when squinting at the keyboard in the semi-darkness where I usually sit.

That was an exaggeration, and it's only a few keys on my set that are that bad, it's mostly noticeably inconsistent thicknesses otherwise.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Go for GMK or JTK
« Reply #105 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 23:13:41 »
Semi-related point. Which I would like to use to address your final sentence.

People seem so happy to support new found "artisans"  but they're deadset against supporting JTK, they'll "leave it for now" as you say.

What I'm asking, why?

A bit of an apples and oranges comparison here. Artisans are imperfect intrinsically. Part of the sell on a handcrafted key is that it will look just that. On the other hand legends on key caps are supposed to look clean and consistent, so when they are not, people are going to point that out. Doesn't matter who is making them. I did, and do support JTK, but I also don't blame others for not wanting to spend $80 on a set of caps that some of the legends look like they were done with a sharpie. I mean, if being honest about the legends is ****ting on them, then guilty as charged. I paid $80 for my right to be critical of the product. I also made sure to leave them a 5 star review on Originative because despite the legends the keys are great quality.

I wouldn't say JTK legends are that bad!

There are a few irregularities, but that is the case for many keycap sets I have.

The biggest difference I noticed is that between the doubleshot main set and the few windows pad-printed ones, but I can completely understand that they would look different.  The rest of the minor inconsistencies I hardly notice, even when squinting at the keyboard in the semi-darkness where I usually sit.

That was an exaggeration, and it's only a few keys on my set that are that bad, it's mostly noticeably inconsistent thicknesses otherwise.

Which set have you got?

I have the WoB debut set.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline Ail

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Re: Go for GMK or JTK
« Reply #106 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 23:30:30 »
Semi-related point. Which I would like to use to address your final sentence.

People seem so happy to support new found "artisans"  but they're deadset against supporting JTK, they'll "leave it for now" as you say.

What I'm asking, why?

A bit of an apples and oranges comparison here. Artisans are imperfect intrinsically. Part of the sell on a handcrafted key is that it will look just that. On the other hand legends on key caps are supposed to look clean and consistent, so when they are not, people are going to point that out. Doesn't matter who is making them. I did, and do support JTK, but I also don't blame others for not wanting to spend $80 on a set of caps that some of the legends look like they were done with a sharpie. I mean, if being honest about the legends is ****ting on them, then guilty as charged. I paid $80 for my right to be critical of the product. I also made sure to leave them a 5 star review on Originative because despite the legends the keys are great quality.

I wouldn't say JTK legends are that bad!

There are a few irregularities, but that is the case for many keycap sets I have.

The biggest difference I noticed is that between the doubleshot main set and the few windows pad-printed ones, but I can completely understand that they would look different.  The rest of the minor inconsistencies I hardly notice, even when squinting at the keyboard in the semi-darkness where I usually sit.

That was an exaggeration, and it's only a few keys on my set that are that bad, it's mostly noticeably inconsistent thicknesses otherwise.

Which set have you got?

I have the WoB debut set.

Stormtrooper. I picked it up off Originative last month.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Go for GMK or JTK
« Reply #107 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 23:40:09 »
Semi-related point. Which I would like to use to address your final sentence.

People seem so happy to support new found "artisans"  but they're deadset against supporting JTK, they'll "leave it for now" as you say.

What I'm asking, why?

A bit of an apples and oranges comparison here. Artisans are imperfect intrinsically. Part of the sell on a handcrafted key is that it will look just that. On the other hand legends on key caps are supposed to look clean and consistent, so when they are not, people are going to point that out. Doesn't matter who is making them. I did, and do support JTK, but I also don't blame others for not wanting to spend $80 on a set of caps that some of the legends look like they were done with a sharpie. I mean, if being honest about the legends is ****ting on them, then guilty as charged. I paid $80 for my right to be critical of the product. I also made sure to leave them a 5 star review on Originative because despite the legends the keys are great quality.

I wouldn't say JTK legends are that bad!

There are a few irregularities, but that is the case for many keycap sets I have.

The biggest difference I noticed is that between the doubleshot main set and the few windows pad-printed ones, but I can completely understand that they would look different.  The rest of the minor inconsistencies I hardly notice, even when squinting at the keyboard in the semi-darkness where I usually sit.

That was an exaggeration, and it's only a few keys on my set that are that bad, it's mostly noticeably inconsistent thicknesses otherwise.

Which set have you got?

I have the WoB debut set.

Stormtrooper. I picked it up off Originative last month.

Stormtrooper a generation or two newer, WoB original debut - I wonder how many differences there are.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline swimmingbird

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Re: Go for GMK or JTK
« Reply #108 on: Sun, 06 March 2016, 05:36:52 »
Semi-related point. Which I would like to use to address your final sentence.

People seem so happy to support new found "artisans"  but they're deadset against supporting JTK, they'll "leave it for now" as you say.

What I'm asking, why?

A bit of an apples and oranges comparison here. Artisans are imperfect intrinsically. Part of the sell on a handcrafted key is that it will look just that. On the other hand legends on key caps are supposed to look clean and consistent, so when they are not, people are going to point that out. Doesn't matter who is making them. I did, and do support JTK, but I also don't blame others for not wanting to spend $80 on a set of caps that some of the legends look like they were done with a sharpie. I mean, if being honest about the legends is ****ting on them, then guilty as charged. I paid $80 for my right to be critical of the product. I also made sure to leave them a 5 star review on Originative because despite the legends the keys are great quality.

I wouldn't say JTK legends are that bad!

There are a few irregularities, but that is the case for many keycap sets I have.

The biggest difference I noticed is that between the doubleshot main set and the few windows pad-printed ones, but I can completely understand that they would look different.  The rest of the minor inconsistencies I hardly notice, even when squinting at the keyboard in the semi-darkness where I usually sit.

That was an exaggeration, and it's only a few keys on my set that are that bad, it's mostly noticeably inconsistent thicknesses otherwise.

Which set have you got?

I have the WoB debut set.

Stormtrooper. I picked it up off Originative last month.

Stormtrooper a generation or two newer, WoB original debut - I wonder how many differences there are.

Not sure if this is correct but I heard that Stormtrooper is the same generation of molds as Debut so they should be the same

Offline absyrd

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Re: Go for GMK or JTK
« Reply #109 on: Sun, 06 March 2016, 06:19:41 »
Nobody actually looks at legends. Buy for feels.
My wife I a also push her button . But now she have her button push by a different men. So I buy a keyboard a mechanicale, she a reliable like a Fiat.

Offline riotonthebay

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Re: Go for GMK or JTK
« Reply #110 on: Sun, 06 March 2016, 08:08:41 »
Stormtrooper was made with the freshman buy. Same "generation" as black and purple.

Offline ideus

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Re: Go for GMK or JTK
« Reply #111 on: Mon, 07 March 2016, 16:57:25 »

bunnylake just told me the legend set is not complete yet so they are not taking orders to manufacture other sets.