Modernized Model F?

[fountainhead]

Hi there! Can't believe I didn't know about this site a couple of years ago when I was shopping for mechanical keyboards. I'm typing this on a Unicomp Model M, of which I'm quite fond. Lately, though, I've been curious to try the super clicky Model F. Unfortunately, Unicomp doesn't make a clone of the Model F. I'm aware that you can still find original, working IBM Model Fs for sale, but they're quite expensive and have a different connector and layout from modern keyboards.

So I was just wondering if you know of any kind of "modernized" Model F clone that still has the nice clicky capacitive switches but preferably with a modern 104-key layout and a USB connection. I've found this site: http://www.modelfkeyboards.com. Their keyboards look nice and faithful to the originals and I believe they have a USB connection. Still, I was hoping for one with a modern layout. Are there any other options for someone like me? Thanks!

P.S. I'd even consider non-buckling spring switches if they feel similar to the Model F. So far I've tried Cherry MX blue and green and Model M-style buckling springs, which are my favorite.

[jerue]

I'm not aware of any Model-F clones. The website you're referring to is Ellipse's group buy to reproduce the parts used for Model F keyboards (in 62 and 77 key layouts respectively)


Your best bet is to get a 107 key F from eBay and a Soarer's converter so it will work over USB.


Otherwise you could try some "jailhouse" MX greens but it won't really compare to the classic buckling spring sound.

[fohat.digs]

I think that it is fair to say that a lot of us were dismayed to see that Ellipse undertook the monumental and magnificent project of having a brand new Model F keyboard manufactured with all-metal case and integral programmable NKRO USB connection but elected to reproduce 2 obscure 1980s banking keyboards rather than the eternal twin Holy Grails of industry-standard Model M configuration and Model M SSK configuration incorporating IBMs original vision of the same PCB configurable for ANSI or ISO (and the addition of Windows keys would have been trivial).

[fountainhead]

Thanks for the replies! I guess I'll just keep my eyes open for a good deal. I'm jealous. I hear stories of people finding Model Fs for sale in Goodwills for like $3. My Goodwills never have anything that cool.

[romevi]

I think that it is fair to say that a lot of us were dismayed to see that Ellipse undertook the monumental and magnificent project of having a brand new Model F keyboard manufactured with all-metal case and integral programmable NKRO USB connection but elected to reproduce 2 obscure 1980s banking keyboards rather than the eternal twin Holy Grails of industry-standard Model M configuration and Model M SSK configuration incorporating IBMs original vision of the same PCB configurable for ANSI or ISO (and the addition of Windows keys would have been trivial).

There is no punctuation there except for some hyphens and parens. o_O

[fohat.digs]

There is no punctuation there except for some hyphens and parens. o_O

Ha Ha Ha. You know me too well. Yes, ordinarily I would have sprinkled a handful of commas in there. Perhaps I was doing that more stream-of-consciousness than usual!

[klennkellon]

I'm wondering if it's possible for a Model M to have "ghetto" NKRO like how the Noppoo Choc Mini does, by taking advantage of USB hubs.

[Melvang]

I'm wondering if it's possible for a Model M to have "ghetto" NKRO like how the Noppoo Choc Mini does, by taking advantage of USB hubs.

Nope, it is a limitation of the membranes, not the firmware.

[hwood34]

I think that it is fair to say that a lot of us were dismayed to see that Ellipse undertook the monumental and magnificent project of having a brand new Model F keyboard manufactured with all-metal case and integral programmable NKRO USB connection but elected to reproduce 2 obscure 1980s banking keyboards rather than the eternal twin Holy Grails of industry-standard Model M configuration and Model M SSK configuration incorporating IBMs original vision of the same PCB configurable for ANSI or ISO (and the addition of Windows keys would have been trivial).

There is no punctuation there except for some hyphens and parens. o_O

technically grammatically correct. the best kind of correct

[rxc92]

Had the luck of trying out a model F once, and really nothing I've tried is similar to it. It's springy and clicks, but has a hollow feel to it due to the mechanism. AFAIK there's nothing modern, the only real option is to get a Soarer's converter like the others have said and convert it. However, getting a layout that's not literally 3 feet long and very strange may be difficult.

[fohat.digs]

However, getting a layout that's not literally 3 2 feet long and or very strange except for an ANSI-modified AT with Alt keys may be difficult if you don't have a work bench.

ftfy

[y11971alex]

Had the luck of trying out a model F once, and really nothing I've tried is similar to it. It's springy and clicks, but has a hollow feel to it due to the mechanism. AFAIK there's nothing modern, the only real option is to get a Soarer's converter like the others have said and convert it. However, getting a layout that's not literally 3 feet long and very strange may be difficult.

Well, The XT and AT versions only have 83 and 84 keys respectively, which is less than the 87 key SSK standard.  So, for that, I believe we can actually call the two most common Model F keyboards SSKs.

[rxc92]

Had the luck of trying out a model F once, and really nothing I've tried is similar to it. It's springy and clicks, but has a hollow feel to it due to the mechanism. AFAIK there's nothing modern, the only real option is to get a Soarer's converter like the others have said and convert it. However, getting a layout that's not literally 3 feet long and very strange may be difficult.

Well, The XT and AT versions only have 83 and 84 keys respectively, which is less than the 87 key SSK standard.  So, for that, I believe we can actually call the two most common Model F keyboards SSKs.

 
That's right, I was exaggerating a bit since it has been a few years. The one I tried was an XT, fun but yeah.. layout a bit too off for me.

[klennkellon]

friendly FYI to OP, Unicomps are not really clones of Model M's, they ARE Model M's, Unicomp took over after Lexmark. They use the same molds and the same equipment and factories. They are fourth generation Model M's. The typing feel is just as good (from my research) but the build quality is not quite up to par,

[jacobolus]

Just do it yourself. You need:

(1) A waterjet-cut steel plate in your desired design, curved on a slip roll, plus another uncut steel plate, similarly rolled
(2) The barrels and flip plates from an IBM XT keyboard
(3) Keycaps from an IBM keyboard, or purchased from unicomp.
(4) A capsense PCB on some kind of flexible material. This one is going to take some electrical engineering work, but it’s not an insurmountable challenge
(5) A capsense controller. The community has produced at least a couple different versions of this.
(6) Enough firmware programming work to get the capsense controller working with your custom layout.
(7) Design and production of some kind of case. This part can be as easy or as hard as you want to make it.

Overall, probably a few hundred hours of work (or a lot faster if you have prior experience) and a few hundred dollars.

[fountainhead]

friendly FYI to OP, Unicomps are not really clones of Model M's, they ARE Model M's, Unicomp took over after Lexmark. They use the same molds and the same equipment and factories. They are fourth generation Model M's. The typing feel is just as good (from my research) but the build quality is not quite up to par,

Thanks, noted. I knew that Unicomp had IBM 'lineage' but wasn't aware they use the same equipment. I really like them though. When I bought this Model M, I sent a quick question to them as to why my num lock key was acting weird and turns out there was a compatibility issue with my Asus motherboard. I was fine with that. I just wanted to make sure nothing was broken. But about a week later, Unicomp shipped me a brand new keyboard that they tweaked to work properly with my mortherboard! Great service!

[fohat.digs]

turns out there was a compatibility issue with my Asus motherboard. I was fine with that. I just wanted to make sure nothing was broken. But about a week later, Unicomp shipped me a brand new keyboard that they tweaked to work properly with my mortherboard! Great service!

Unicomp is an excellent company with outstanding customer service. You can ignore 90% of the elitist whining you hear about them.

[1391406]

turns out there was a compatibility issue with my Asus motherboard. I was fine with that. I just wanted to make sure nothing was broken. But about a week later, Unicomp shipped me a brand new keyboard that they tweaked to work properly with my mortherboard! Great service!

Unicomp is an excellent company with outstanding customer service. You can ignore 90% of the elitist whining you hear about them.

The company and customer service is excellent. It's their quality control that needs work.

[klennkellon]

turns out there was a compatibility issue with my Asus motherboard. I was fine with that. I just wanted to make sure nothing was broken. But about a week later, Unicomp shipped me a brand new keyboard that they tweaked to work properly with my mortherboard! Great service!

Unicomp is an excellent company with outstanding customer service. You can ignore 90% of the elitist whining you hear about them.

The company and customer service is excellent. It's their quality control that needs work.

It's a shame, besides the case creak and lack of backplate they are still pretty nice buckling spring boards, the QA on their plastic molding sucks, not that real model m's were flawless in this regard though.

[E TwentyNine]

I'm wondering if it's possible for a Model M to have "ghetto" NKRO like how the Noppoo Choc Mini does, by taking advantage of USB hubs.

Nope, it is a limitation of the membranes, not the firmware.

I believe phosphor was working on a thin pcb replacement for the bottom membrane with diodes that would allow for true nkro.

Would have to go find the thread on DT.

[0100010]

Thought that was wcass?  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40111

[E TwentyNine]

Thought that was wcass?  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40111

I could be wrong.  I could have sworn phoshorglow was also working on something similar, but just a bottom pcb.

Either way, it is feasible.

[Phenix]

Look for idollars FSSK / FEXT project

(putting Model F parts in the SSK)

[klennkellon]

Thought that was wcass?  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40111

I could be wrong.  I could have sworn phoshorglow was also working on something similar, but just a bottom pcb.

Either way, it is feasible.

Damn, I would buy one of these.

[xtrafrood]

turns out there was a compatibility issue with my Asus motherboard. I was fine with that. I just wanted to make sure nothing was broken. But about a week later, Unicomp shipped me a brand new keyboard that they tweaked to work properly with my mortherboard! Great service!

Unicomp is an excellent company with outstanding customer service. You can ignore 90% of the elitist whining you hear about them.

The company and customer service is excellent. It's their quality control that needs work.

If only they had the funds to update the tooling and get rid of those weird blemishes. Unicomp should do some crowd funding 

[klennkellon]

turns out there was a compatibility issue with my Asus motherboard. I was fine with that. I just wanted to make sure nothing was broken. But about a week later, Unicomp shipped me a brand new keyboard that they tweaked to work properly with my mortherboard! Great service!

Unicomp is an excellent company with outstanding customer service. You can ignore 90% of the elitist whining you hear about them.

The company and customer service is excellent. It's their quality control that needs work.

If only they had the funds to update the tooling and get rid of those weird blemishes. Unicomp should do some crowd funding 

if they started making SSK's they would be rolling in dosh

[xtrafrood]

turns out there was a compatibility issue with my Asus motherboard. I was fine with that. I just wanted to make sure nothing was broken. But about a week later, Unicomp shipped me a brand new keyboard that they tweaked to work properly with my mortherboard! Great service!

Unicomp is an excellent company with outstanding customer service. You can ignore 90% of the elitist whining you hear about them.

The company and customer service is excellent. It's their quality control that needs work.

If only they had the funds to update the tooling and get rid of those weird blemishes. Unicomp should do some crowd funding 

if they started making SSK's they would be rolling in dosh

[wcass]

Thought that was wcass?  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40111

I could be wrong.  I could have sworn phoshorglow was also working on something similar, but just a bottom pcb.

Either way, it is feasible.

Yep, that was me. It works, but custom membranes are much more expensive than custom PCB, so a custom model M runs about triple the cost of a custom F. I'm pretty much just doing custom F work these days.