Author Topic: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!  (Read 129047 times)

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Offline sordna

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Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #100 on: Thu, 09 February 2012, 01:08:52 »
I just tried the same experiment on my oldest Classic (serial 40,1xx), which doesn't have the ribbons. I had to pull out the keywells slightlly, to be able to jumper the contacts. Results:

On the left hand, 1+6 produces L Shift, but if you remap it [strike]it remaps the regular left shift key as well. It looks like 1+6 and 2+6 correspond to the same thing (not independent)[/strike] it works fine. However 1+11 produces Num Lock which is independently remappable.

On the right hand, the behavior is exactly the same as the LF, ie 4+3 and 4+6 are dead keys (that only produce a click sound) and are independently remappable.
So it appears that my PS/2 Classic behaves the same way as the new USB LF.

Firmware version of the Classic (PS/2) keyboard:
copyright 1986 - 2002 by interfatron-bbc, ltd., rev 2.60 01/05/02
« Last Edit: Wed, 15 February 2012, 16:21:30 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #101 on: Thu, 09 February 2012, 01:26:22 »
Can you get the firmware version of your 40,xxx? And see if the 4 'key spots' are on that controller as well?

My current Advantage has the same firmware version as your LF and is 81,xxx.

I have 4 keyboards in the 30,xxx and 32,xxx serial number range (130, Essential, Professionals)
30,xxx  ver. 2.48a 03/06/99   I will see if this has the 4 'key spots' in the next day or two.

I'm waiting for an email response from Kinesis to confirm the keywell/pcb changes and serial # at which it took place.

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Offline sordna

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« Reply #102 on: Thu, 09 February 2012, 01:29:27 »
Quote from: input nirvana;509935
Can you get the firmware version of your 40,xxx? And see if the 4 'key spots' are on that controller as well?

Didn't you read my previous post, right above yours? I have answers for both your questions in it.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #103 on: Thu, 09 February 2012, 01:40:46 »
Quote from: sordna;509615
Next exercise is to determine the best location for permanently tapping (soldering wires) into these pairs, any volunteers?

I'm looking for possibly better locations (maybe on the main PCB?) otherwise the keywell connector pins will have to do:

(Attachment Link) 39812[/ATTACH]

I would consider connecting the same location of the ribbon connector, but on the backside of the main controller pcb for soldering a tap onto the pins. The only reason I say this is because if your keyboard needs to come apart, the keywells can be removed and not be directly wired to any switches. The main pcb is already attached to the power cord/usb board, and the 2 thumb clusters....but if you have wires from the power block to the 2 pinky keys in the keywells, perhaps it doesn't matter.

One thought:
Any wire going from the main board to any of the 6 plug ins, or anything added to the keyboard, could have a plug/unplug electrical connector. So, with some advance planning, a 4 pin, or maybe 8 pin molex can be used for each side now once we determine the maximum possibilities.
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #104 on: Thu, 09 February 2012, 01:42:22 »
Quote from: sordna;509936
Didn't you read my previous post, right above yours? I have answers for both your questions in it.

The 40,xxx and 80,xxx have the same firmware?
And the same 4 key spaces?
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Offline sordna

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« Reply #105 on: Thu, 09 February 2012, 01:58:26 »
Have you been drinking? In post #96 I said the LF has firmware 2.67, and in post #97 I said the Classic has firmware 2.60, and that 3 hidden keys are usable (pair 1+6 on the left is NOT usable on the classic, rest spots are the same). Please re-read post #96 and #97 :-)
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #106 on: Thu, 09 February 2012, 02:06:28 »
Post #97....wow...never saw it and I've reloaded the page half a dozen times between our 2 threads...

I would like about 5 drinks about now....

So the difference must be in the firmware, since I'm thinking the keywells are most likely interchangeable after 40,000.
(1-I'll get info from Rick on this probably tomorrow and 2-will swap some of my keywell stuff out and 3-test 30,xxx for any hidden keys)
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Offline sordna

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« Reply #107 on: Thu, 09 February 2012, 02:30:41 »
Quote from: input nirvana;509939
I would consider connecting the same location of the ribbon connector, but on the backside of the main controller pcb for soldering a tap onto the pins. The only reason I say this is because if your keyboard needs to come apart, the keywells can be removed and not be directly wired to any switches. The main pcb is already attached to the power cord/usb board, and the 2 thumb clusters....but if you have wires from the power block to the 2 pinky keys in the keywells, perhaps it doesn't matter.

How easily is the main PCB removed, if we want to solder wires underneath ? It's not glued, is it?

Quote
Any wire going from the main board to any of the 6 plug ins, or anything added to the keyboard, could have a plug/unplug electrical connector. So, with some advance planning, a 4 pin, or maybe 8 pin molex can be used for each side now once we determine the maximum possibilities.

It would be cool if the thumb PCBs had a connector instead of having their ribbon soldered on both ends.

Anyway, regarding easy connections, I would like to install those pin connector pairs (like the ones found on motherboards, for connecting fans, speaker, reset button etc) for the extra key spots on the PCB, to easily connect and move around the extra switch connections.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #108 on: Thu, 09 February 2012, 02:54:29 »
Quote from: sordna;509960
How easily is the main PCB removed, if we want to solder wires underneath ? It's not glued, is it?



It would be cool if the thumb PCBs had a connector instead of having their ribbon soldered on both ends.

Anyway, regarding easy connections, I would like to install those pin connector pairs (like the ones found on motherboards, for connecting fans, speaker, reset button etc) for the extra key spots on the PCB, to easily connect and move around the extra switch connections.


Main pcb is held in by 1 screw and a positioning pin.

I've often thought of why the thumb clusters were not detachable, since everything else is....so why????

Quick connects...they serve as a connector and as a DIS-connector...can be mounted to a breadboard or wire-to-wire...slick.
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Offline sordna

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« Reply #109 on: Thu, 09 February 2012, 10:45:20 »
I was planning to get some motherboard header pins / wires, something like this, but I'm trying to find a more reasonable (bulk) packaging/pricing

http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-18-Inch-Internal-Motherboard-USBINT5PINMF/dp/B005G306UK
http://www.amazon.com/SPDIF-Cable-Pin-Sound-Card/dp/B000I9903G

Can you post a link about the quick connects you are referring to? They gotta be small and cheap please :-)
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #110 on: Thu, 09 February 2012, 14:42:14 »
Kinesis keywell info:

1/9/12
Hello,

Yes, that's correct.

There is a difference in the linking cable from the keywell to the main circuit board. Serial numbers starting with a 5 or below have a certain type, everything with a 6 and above has the latest.

-Rick
----------------------------
1/8/12
Hello Rick,

Can you please clarify a question regarding the keywell/bowls/pcb's? I had gotten 2 sets of keywells with red swiches to retrofit into a couple Contoured keyboards. It's my understanding you need the serial number when ordering the keywells so you know which pcb is to be used so the pin order matches the main controller (there are 2 choices). Is this inaccurate? What is the serial number that that change occurred and what was the change? Although I have not done it yet, someone else has swapped a keywell from 40.xxx with 80,xxx and everything seems to check out fine. Maybe the change was at 40,000?


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Offline sordna

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« Reply #111 on: Thu, 09 February 2012, 15:11:11 »
Perhaps the "linking cable change" is the ribbon in the newer vs the pluggable PCB of the older models?
On the other hand, one of my 40k models has the ribbons. And we still didn't get a good answer on how 80k keywells work on a 40k model !  Either way, they said the cable is different, not the keywells, so I doubt a ribbon cable would swap the pin order. Perhaps it's a different "finish" to the cable, since the older models' PCB connectors don't have the fastener tab, and instead require heavy force to squeeze the ribbon in.

EDIT: Hope you will still try fitting your #81k keywells to your #30k keyboards... I actually think they will work. You should also try your pre-50k-intended red keywells, to your #81k advantage, I bet they will work for sure!
« Last Edit: Thu, 09 February 2012, 15:46:19 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #112 on: Fri, 10 February 2012, 00:51:40 »
I'm totally confused on the entire keywell info. It doesn't make sense...the keywells I have will physically connect to either mainboard connector. I'm confident I was told there was a pin out change, (hopefully there is not, and all keywells can be interchanged) but no matter, I'll confirm that in the next couple days and document. Bottom line, the ribbon cable fits into the connector that the pcb slides into, and it obviously will fit into the other white ribbon connector with the tab. I will try to swap all keywells I can (81k into 30k and 32k, and LF keywells into 81k. I've already used the LF keywells in the 30k and 32k).

I'll see about the connectors. Gimmie a day.
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Offline sordna

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« Reply #113 on: Fri, 10 February 2012, 00:58:31 »
I just checked the email I had got from Kinesis last year, they said the ribbon cables are different (not the keywells), without further clarifications. So it just might be the ribbon material, or length, or which side the leads are exposed on, not necessarily a pin order change. AFAIK, most ribbons are flat and don't transpose any ordering (except for those old floppy drive ribbons, remember them?) Anyway, will wait for your test results.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #114 on: Fri, 10 February 2012, 01:14:13 »
Hmmmm.....miscommunication/understanding perhaps. A big one. I'll still try it all out. But still, the ribbon works in either connector, so......? Regardless, I'll be happy to put this to bed.

Here is what I originally thought for the connectors. Molex, which is all I really know about, there must be more options. I've also used the automobile connectors, but they are a little too big for this application. You can get up to 36 circuits (wires). These are their .062 standard stuff. These things are $3-10 for the big ones in electronics stores. Fry's has them.
« Last Edit: Fri, 10 February 2012, 01:19:39 by input nirvana »
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #115 on: Fri, 10 February 2012, 01:22:37 »
Hmmmm.....miscommunication/understanding perhaps. A big one. I'll still try it all out. But still, the ribbon works in either connector, so......? Regardless, I'll be happy to put this to bed.

Here is what I originally thought for the connectors. Molex, which is all I really know about, there must be more options. I've also used the automobile connectors, but they are a little too big for this application. You can get up to 36 circuits (wires). These are their .062 standard stuff. These things are $3-$10 for the big ones in electronics stores. Fry's has them.

http://www.molex.com/molex/products/listview.jsp?query=&offset=0&npp=20&sType=z&fs=productname:"standard .062",productseries:or(1625||1772||2004)&channel=Products&autoNav=1&path=cHome%23%23-1%23%23-1~~ncCRIMPHOUSINGS%23%230%23%231v&Itemlist=
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Offline boli

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« Reply #116 on: Sat, 11 February 2012, 02:28:02 »
When I ordered the two key wells with Cherry MX reds around Christmas time, Kinesis forgot to ask about the serial number of my board, and so they sent along the old ribbon cables as well:
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 40130[/ATTACH]

The two old cables were in the conveniently labeled bag. The brown key well in the back has the newer cable attached to it, as did the red ones.  From the looks of it the leads are exposed on different sides of the cable.

Summary: From the info Kinesis gave and sordna's pictures it looks as if there was a key well change between s/n 40'2xx and 40'1xx (direct connect vs. cable connect), and later there was a ribbon cable change at s/n 5x'xxx (changed side of lead exposure). Yet it looks as if all of these can use new key wells, and both older designs work with the old ribbon cables.
« Last Edit: Sat, 11 February 2012, 02:56:15 by boli »
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
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Offline sordna

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« Reply #117 on: Sat, 11 February 2012, 09:55:31 »
Ahh, a picture is a thousand words! Thanks boli, how fortunate it is that Kinesis sent you both kinds of ribbons!
So the old ribbons have the leads exposed on opposite faces, while the new ribbons have the leads exposed on the same face of the ribbon.
« Last Edit: Sat, 11 February 2012, 10:00:55 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #118 on: Sat, 11 February 2012, 11:55:04 »
Is there a difference with the female pcb ribbon connectors? Do the female ribbon connectors only have contacts on one side or the other, not both?
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Offline sordna

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« Reply #119 on: Sat, 11 February 2012, 12:02:51 »
Those connectors only have contacts on one side. So I guess at #60k they swapped their orientation for some reason. They could have made ribbons with exposed leads on both faces at one edge, then the same ribbon would work with any connector orientation.

Anyway, thinking of a ps/2 -> usb conversion for my classic; I can easily fit a bluecube in the case. Hey, do you know were to find solderable male ps/2 connectors?
« Last Edit: Sat, 11 February 2012, 12:31:12 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #120 on: Sat, 11 February 2012, 12:14:34 »
Quote from: sordna;511748
Those connectors only have contacts on one side. So I guess at #50k they swapped their orientation for some reason. They could have made ribbons with exposed leads on both faces at one edge, then the same ribbon would work with any connector orientation.

Anyway, thinking of a ps/2 -> usb conversion for my classic; I can easily fit a bluecube in the case. Hey, do you know were to find solderable male ps/2 connectors?

 
Ok, then it all makes sense. The pcb female connector/connector ribbon is the change, and that was at 60,000. So the work around, should there ever be a need for one, is a modified cable (scratch and uncover the leads on the other side of the ribbon, or change the 2 female ribbon connectors. To clarify, the female connector on the keywells became flipped around, not the main pcb connectors?

Other than online search, try Fry's. The only place I've gotten one is from a cable, but that is a bit of work.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline sordna

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« Reply #121 on: Sat, 11 February 2012, 12:20:05 »
EDIT: Kinesis' note on boli's photo talks about serials starting with 5 or below. So you are right, the old ribbons were used up to serial 59,999 and the new starting with 60,000.

What was changed was the orientation of the ribbon connector on the main PCB, not on the keywells. So all keywells with reds Kinesis sells are identical, only the ribbon changes, to match the PCB connector orientation.
« Last Edit: Sat, 11 February 2012, 12:30:51 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #122 on: Sat, 11 February 2012, 12:33:20 »
I finally got it!!!!!

I'm exhausted.
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Offline sordna

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Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #123 on: Sat, 11 February 2012, 14:15:33 »
I tried to find small 2-pin molex connectors but couldn't. However I found something more convenient, motherboard header pins and jumpers. A pair of jumpers can be used as a 2-pin female-female connector. Each of these bags was about $3 at fry's. There's four 40-pin strips in one bag (you can easily break the strips into pin pairs) and 100 jumpers in the other. The pins can either be attached to a PCB and/or soldered onto wires to make quick-connect jumper cables.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 40152[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 40151[/ATTACH]
« Last Edit: Sat, 11 February 2012, 14:26:53 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline sordna

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« Reply #124 on: Sat, 11 February 2012, 20:28:24 »
I found the perfect usb port for
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-A-Female-to-B-Female-Keystone-Jack-White-WP-C17WH-/270735407064

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 40188[/ATTACH]
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #125 on: Sat, 11 February 2012, 21:13:34 »
Hmmm...and could Gorilla Glue a few jumpers together to make a custom sized wiring/connection block...
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Offline sordna

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« Reply #126 on: Sat, 11 February 2012, 21:33:57 »
Gorilla glue is drying as we speak :-)
Hey computer parts are great, I also got a floppy ribbon cable for cheap, just to peel wires from it as needed. They will go from the PCB connector leads to the glued pins, for quick-connect access to the hidden matrix spots.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Icarium

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« Reply #127 on: Sun, 12 February 2012, 10:10:51 »
I've lost track of what the article is and where the comments are but I have trackpoints inbound from ebay and an open Kinesis lying on the shelf. This will be wonderful. :)
I had a sig once but it's gone. It used to display an icon of a Kinesis. Just imagine that.

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #128 on: Sun, 12 February 2012, 18:58:41 »
The article is a mess, a product of my messy mind at this point. Eventually as I keep building it and adding links, it will get renamed so it will be internet searchable (I don't think it is right now?).

What are your trackpoint mod plans?
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Offline sordna

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using header pins
« Reply #129 on: Mon, 13 February 2012, 15:23:26 »
Here is what I did, I drilled the PCB at the very edge and glued 4 pairs of these connector pins, then I soldered wires between them and the connector terminals corresponding to the 4 spare spots on the matrix (4+3, 4+6 on the right, 1+6, 1+11 on the left)

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 40406[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 40405[/ATTACH]

You can see the 4 connectors, ready to hook up onto switches!

I'll do something simpler on my other keyboards, I'll solder the wires to the connector pins beforehand, and will hotglue them sideways (at an angle) onto the PCB, instead of drilling at these precarious locations (traces are too close).
« Last Edit: Mon, 13 February 2012, 16:09:19 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #130 on: Mon, 13 February 2012, 15:33:01 »
Agreed. Drilling/notching on the edge is not comfortable. I've done it SUPER-carefully, and it's 'iffy' at best. I won't recommend it.

Hot glue is perfect to attach the connector pins to the main pcb (the connector pins laying on their side) since there is room on the pcb. I like it. :) Now for the keywell attachment....I don't see a way to make it as clean though :(

I really like having "hard points" on the main pcb to make the connections. As I look and think about it, every effort should be made to have hard points on the keywells also.
« Last Edit: Mon, 13 February 2012, 15:38:21 by input nirvana »
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Offline sordna

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« Reply #131 on: Mon, 13 February 2012, 15:55:24 »
I don't understand, what keywell attachment are you referring to / what hard points do you need on the keywells? I added those pins to the main PCB so we don't have to solder anything on the keywell side of things.

Or are you talking about making the thumbcluster connectors detachable ?
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #132 on: Mon, 13 February 2012, 16:28:20 »
I should have referred to the two pinky keys added on the keywells.
 
I leave out way too much info when I type :)
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Offline sordna

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« Reply #133 on: Mon, 13 February 2012, 16:49:05 »
So you want to carry the signal of keys under the shifts over the existing ribbons, instead of plugging wires onto the main PCB ?
Well, since those keys become glued to the keywells, there's no reason for their wires to be detachable, you can simply hot glue their wires neatly in place, and solder the ends right at the keywell connector solder points.

But you wont be able to do momentary keypad shift with those keys, that function is only available on the main PCB.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #134 on: Mon, 13 February 2012, 17:43:37 »
I was thinking that the "under shift keys" would be detachable from the main pcb. Hot glue the wires from the key switches onto the keywell to hard point connector pins near the main pcb, and have the wires coming from the main pcb power block with female connectors attached to plug onto the keywells.

Momentary keypad is awesome...gotta keep it.

But you bring up an idea:
Maybe by using a dip switch/or?, can control the connections at the power block verses the hidden matrix? So the non-remappable can be moved? I'm on my phone and having a hard time articulating my thoughts on this.
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Offline sordna

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« Reply #135 on: Mon, 13 February 2012, 18:04:55 »
Well, you can hot glue header pins pretty much anywhere, no drilling required. So hot-glue pins on their sides on PCBs, solder pins on wires, and use jumpers as connectors between them. Dip switch idea is interesting but too much hassle; it's easy enough to open the keyboard and rearrange the connectors, the main thing is not having to unsolder/resolder things whenever you want to make a change, and these quick connector ideas take care of that.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #136 on: Mon, 13 February 2012, 19:12:14 »
Yes, a dip switch would be a hassle, so not a first choice. I'm not a fan of them, old technology, but if retrofitting something, it can sometimes be the way to go.

The total 'extra' keys on a Kinesis is as follows, with a couple notes/restrictions:
-4 hidden keys, no limitations to remapping.
-3 footswitch keys (Left Shift, Keypad Enter, Keypad Shift), no limitations to moving/remapping, EXCEPT the default Keypad Shift cannot be moved elsewhere (it becomes Keypad 'Toggle'), but it still can be remapped to become something else at that location.
-Program function key, no move, no remap.
-Keypad function key, no move, no remap, UNLESS you use a foot switch to move, to remap.
« Last Edit: Wed, 15 February 2012, 16:26:03 by input nirvana »
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Offline sordna

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« Reply #137 on: Mon, 13 February 2012, 19:42:16 »
You are correct except for:
Quote
-Keypad function key, no move, no remap.

The keypad function can be assigned to other keys HOWEVER you must use a footswitch (or our extra keys) to do that.

The manual is right, if you have a keypad-footswitch and try to use it as a "source" key during remapping, the destination key will become a keypad toggle.
So the momentary keypad action cannot be remapped, but the toggle keypad action can.

Also, the momentary shift keys/footswitch (or green FS2 lead if you will) can be assigned any function, if you don't need the momentary keypad access.

Hey, before I forget, if we use the extra spots on the matrix, the switches will need diodes to avoid ghosting issues.
« Last Edit: Mon, 13 February 2012, 19:51:11 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline sordna

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« Reply #138 on: Wed, 15 February 2012, 03:18:53 »
As I mentioned elsewhere, keys on the matrix need diodes, and the hidden spots are no exception. Here is the best place to put them IMO, to avoid having to deal with diodes on the extra keys themselves.
I also checked the orientation with an actual diode and noted it on the photo. By the way, as I was playing with the new pin connectors on my Classic, I noticed that all connectors work and are remappable, so my previous finding that one of the hidden spots was not usable was wrong (was probably shorting an additional lead at the time).

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 40582[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 40666[/ATTACH]

EDIT: Added photo with diodes actually soldered to the header pin connectors
« Last Edit: Wed, 15 February 2012, 16:17:36 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #139 on: Wed, 15 February 2012, 16:30:23 »
So having the diodes in-line allows using Cherry switches that have no diodes, and not having 4 wires to each switch, is that correct?
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Offline sordna

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« Reply #140 on: Wed, 15 February 2012, 16:55:50 »
Quote from: input nirvana;515460
So having the diodes in-line allows using Cherry switches that have no diodes, and not having 4 wires to each switch, is that correct?

Correct! You can use switches with diodes too, you just don't need to wire the diodes, just solder them for stability, if needed :-)
Besides, I used switches without diodes under the shifts, which I connected to the footswitch leads. I may want to connect them to the matrix instead... the idea is to have quick connectors so you can swap wiring around, which is much easier to do when you don't have to worry about the need or not to insert/remove diodes every time.
« Last Edit: Wed, 15 February 2012, 17:17:59 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline sordna

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« Reply #141 on: Wed, 15 February 2012, 21:06:25 »
My num lock led died. Is it 3mm or 5mm? I don't want to remove keywells and PCB again to find what the heck it is :-)
Do you know of any source/part that will have the same size and color hue?
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #142 on: Wed, 15 February 2012, 21:44:53 »
I measured and came up with 3mm. The only way I would know to get the same would be get the exact info from Kinesis, or I bet they will mail 1 or 2, that seems to be the way they are.

LED died....how unusual.
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Offline sordna

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« Reply #143 on: Wed, 15 February 2012, 22:38:24 »
It's the first time an LED on a keyboard dies on me! Thanks for measuring it, I'll probably order an assortment and solder a red or blue one :-)
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #144 on: Wed, 15 February 2012, 23:07:13 »
A Korean Kinesis had been modified with red, white, blue, and a goldenrod color. I thought it was nice from a color-identify perspective. I think he had another led to show power.
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Offline sordna

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« Reply #145 on: Fri, 24 February 2012, 01:57:16 »
About the scrollwheel. Fitting it between keys won't work. How about fitting it along side the G or H key, in a cutout of that slanted part of the case right next to those keys?
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #146 on: Fri, 24 February 2012, 02:58:15 »
The HYPERscrollwheel can't work on the keywells (it's bigger than 'regular' scrollwheels), there's no room. You are right, the only good spot is alongside the G and H, which is actually perfect. But mounting the hyperscroll unit is a very precise and exacting placement, as it's a sizable unit, you can't really do it twice. The hyperscroll rides in a moveable carriage that is clickable, a very cool design that someone got a big raise for designing, but very unforgiving on a mod. It can be done, but is not for the weak at heart. A I can take a couple better pics and post.

I did a temporary mock up, and the hyperscroll was a sweet combo with the Kinesis. I'm committed to doing it.

There are 2 types of hyperscroll that Logitech makes. One, you press a button to alter the scroll function (wheel spinning freely, or clicking), the other, you press down on the scrollwheel to change that function. I'm a big fan of hyperscroll...now that I've used one, other scrollwheels seem like junk now :(
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Offline sordna

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« Reply #147 on: Fri, 24 February 2012, 12:33:58 »
Yes, I too love the hyperscroll on my M500 mouse. Anyway, I just figured a way to do scrolling with the keyboard keys on my linux box, I put this on my .xbindkeysrc

"xte 'mouseclick 5'"
  KP_Enter

"xte 'mouseclick 4'"
  mod4+KP_Enter

Which means keypad enter scrolls down, and super (windows key) + keypad enter scrolls up. So I can scroll this geekhack page while I'm typing on this textbox (since arrows move the text cursor instead) without reaching for the mouse scrollwheel.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #148 on: Fri, 24 February 2012, 13:17:01 »
Logitech M500 is the hyperscroll I have. I did not purchase the other hyperscroll version yet though I have used it.

Keyed scrolling while text typing! Such a nice solution! (and needed) Must see if OSX offers something comparable as an add.

On the Kinesis split I have an Apple 360 scrollball removed from an Apple Mouse mounted in the left thumb cluster which scrolls the screen, and the trackpoint in the right keywell for the cursor. Not elegant, but very functional for now.
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Offline sordna

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« Reply #149 on: Fri, 24 February 2012, 13:40:16 »
Cool, can you post a photo of the assembled keyboard to show the final result in action ?
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard