What is this 40% madness?

[iLLucionist]

Respectfully, how is a 40% usable? What's so attractive about 'em? But mostly: how do you USE it?

Fellow GH, please enlighten me.

[lolpes]

Honestly? For regular typing in English a 40% is just fine, I used a planck for some months and I was just fine with it. Now when I wrote in Portuguese it was very different since we use a lot accents on words and that required a lot of finger movement.

Small size, portability and very little desk space are the major advantages, and with some getting use to, and with advantage of the layers of these keyboards, you may even preffer it to a keyboard. For gamming it is also awesome!

[3K]

Respectfully, how is a 40% usable? What's so attractive about 'em? But mostly: how do you USE it?

Fellow GH, please enlighten me.

It's the current trend. Nice, clean, sexy, something new. Usability is provided by function layers.

I use mine to occasionally open bottles.

[LiquidEvilGaming]

I could see using one purely for typing without much of an issue, however add gaming into the mix and 60% is the smallest i am comfortable with.

[need]

How is  40% not usable ?

[alexjd99]

For general use, it's just fine. I assume any language other than English may be a bit more difficult though. Numbers and symbols are easily accessible too. So far I only have a Planck, but my Golbat (I'm making the HHKB layout first) should be here soon, and I'm assuming it will be nice to use as well.

Why use it over a 60% though? Honestly, I just think it's kinda cool, and it's funny whenever people get super confused by them. Sure you can argue that there's less finger movement, but it's far less than the difference between TKL and 60%.

I also like how versatile they are. Especially the Planck. I love how I can still have a num pad, and have mouse controls, and tons of macros. They're just kinda fun.

[iLLucionist]

Honestly? For regular typing in English a 40% is just fine, I used a planck for some months and I was just fine with it. Now when I wrote in Portuguese it was very different since we use a lot accents on words and that required a lot of finger movement.

Small size, portability and very little desk space are the major advantages, and with some getting use to, and with advantage of the layers of these keyboards, you may even preffer it to a keyboard. For gamming it is also awesome!

But what about symbols and numbers?

[iLLucionist]

Respectfully, how is a 40% usable? What's so attractive about 'em? But mostly: how do you USE it?

Fellow GH, please enlighten me.

It's the current trend. Nice, clean, sexy, something new. Usability is provided by function layers.

Considering I use vim, it COULD work but I need symbols ALL the time.

I use mine to occasionally open bottles.

HOW?

[iLLucionist]

For general use, it's just fine. I assume any language other than English may be a bit more difficult though. Numbers and symbols are easily accessible too. So far I only have a Planck, but my Golbat (I'm making the HHKB layout first) should be here soon, and I'm assuming it will be nice to use as well.

Why use it over a 60% though? Honestly, I just think it's kinda cool, and it's funny whenever people get super confused by them. Sure you can argue that there's less finger movement, but it's far less than the difference between TKL and 60%.

I also like how versatile they are. Especially the Planck. I love how I can still have a num pad, and have mouse controls, and tons of macros. They're just kinda fun.

Something new, something cool. I get that. But usable... I'm still not convinced. I think I would miss some keys. Now of course that's personal and all.

[alexjd99]

Honestly? For regular typing in English a 40% is just fine, I used a planck for some months and I was just fine with it. Now when I wrote in Portuguese it was very different since we use a lot accents on words and that required a lot of finger movement.

Small size, portability and very little desk space are the major advantages, and with some getting use to, and with advantage of the layers of these keyboards, you may even preffer it to a keyboard. For gamming it is also awesome!

But what about symbols and numbers?

I think numbers and symbols are just fine. Obviously it wouldn't be good for something like data entry, but for general number typing (words are hard?) it's completely fine. Symbols as well. Since the boards are so small, you don't have to do much reaching to access the layer the numbers are on. Especially on the Planck, considering that your layer keys are right next to the already small space bar.

[iLLucionist]

Honestly? For regular typing in English a 40% is just fine, I used a planck for some months and I was just fine with it. Now when I wrote in Portuguese it was very different since we use a lot accents on words and that required a lot of finger movement.

Small size, portability and very little desk space are the major advantages, and with some getting use to, and with advantage of the layers of these keyboards, you may even preffer it to a keyboard. For gamming it is also awesome!

But what about symbols and numbers?

I think numbers and symbols are just fine. Obviously it wouldn't be good for something like data entry, but for general number typing (words are hard?) it's completely fine. Symbols as well. Since the boards are so small, you don't have to do much reaching to access the layer the numbers are on. Especially on the Planck, considering that your layer keys are right next to the already small space bar.

Hmm... still skeptical but starting to get it. So it's programmable... the planck? Is the planck also buyable? Or is it a custom solder-yourself board?

[alexjd99]

Honestly? For regular typing in English a 40% is just fine, I used a planck for some months and I was just fine with it. Now when I wrote in Portuguese it was very different since we use a lot accents on words and that required a lot of finger movement.

Small size, portability and very little desk space are the major advantages, and with some getting use to, and with advantage of the layers of these keyboards, you may even preffer it to a keyboard. For gamming it is also awesome!

But what about symbols and numbers?

I think numbers and symbols are just fine. Obviously it wouldn't be good for something like data entry, but for general number typing (words are hard?) it's completely fine. Symbols as well. Since the boards are so small, you don't have to do much reaching to access the layer the numbers are on. Especially on the Planck, considering that your layer keys are right next to the already small space bar.

Hmm... still skeptical but starting to get it. So it's programmable... the planck? Is the planck also buyable? Or is it a custom solder-yourself board?

On the last GB on Massdrop there was an option to have it assembled, but I think on this one that's currently running you have to assemble it yourself. Not sure if non GB ones will have the option to be assembled either. And as far as I know, all 40% boards are programmable, since there's so much you can change on it.

I'm pretty sure there are also GB's going for other 40% boards like the Van and JD40 going on, if ortholinear isn't your deal (I personally like it).

[iLLucionist]

Honestly? For regular typing in English a 40% is just fine, I used a planck for some months and I was just fine with it. Now when I wrote in Portuguese it was very different since we use a lot accents on words and that required a lot of finger movement.

Small size, portability and very little desk space are the major advantages, and with some getting use to, and with advantage of the layers of these keyboards, you may even preffer it to a keyboard. For gamming it is also awesome!

But what about symbols and numbers?

I think numbers and symbols are just fine. Obviously it wouldn't be good for something like data entry, but for general number typing (words are hard?) it's completely fine. Symbols as well. Since the boards are so small, you don't have to do much reaching to access the layer the numbers are on. Especially on the Planck, considering that your layer keys are right next to the already small space bar.

Hmm... still skeptical but starting to get it. So it's programmable... the planck? Is the planck also buyable? Or is it a custom solder-yourself board?

On the last GB on Massdrop there was an option to have it assembled, but I think on this one that's currently running you have to assemble it yourself. Not sure if non GB ones will have the option to be assembled either. And as far as I know, all 40% boards are programmable, since there's so much you can change on it.

I'm pretty sure there are also GB's going for other 40% boards like the Van and JD40 going on, if ortholinear isn't your deal (I personally like it).

I must say it looks sleek.

[Malenky]

The idea particularly with the Planck is that your fingers are never more than 2 units away from any key. Add to that the additional thumb modifiers, you can have access to multiple layers very easily without having to move your fingers from the home row.

Since it is completely programmable, you can tailor it to suit your needs. It's not for everyone, but for some people it could be absolutely ideal.

[Anastasia]

If I was typing anything other than the alphabet, I would definitely be slower noticeably slower on a 40%.

60% is the smallest I would go for a daily driver and even then, I would miss the arrow keys occasionally.

[nmur]

i've always thought that 40% boards look cute as hell, but they would only be usable for informal typing like IM, seeing as they don't even have punctuation on the default layer

[appleonama]

40s are interesting I bought one just to have it. I am still waiting on it but I don't know how much use it will get hmm.

[FLFisherman]

i've always thought that 40% boards look cute as hell, but they would only be usable for informal typing like IM, seeing as they don't even have punctuation on the default layer

They're undeniably cute, but you're right. That whole second and third layer with a bunch of relevant keys is quite a hassle. Plus it's a pain to memorize those secondary and tertiary layers. With a 60% it's not so bad.

[chuckdee]

i've always thought that 40% boards look cute as hell, but they would only be usable for informal typing like IM, seeing as they don't even have punctuation on the default layer

Depends on your usage.  I have everything I need for writing on my normal layer.  It acts as a non-distraction mode keyboard for me.  The only thing on my default layer are useful for writing alone.  That, and writemonkey, and some background music, and distractions fade, and work gets done.

* chuckdee shrugs

It's all in personal usage, not in absolutes.

[jaffers]

RSI seems like a pretty crappy trend if you ask me

[chuckdee]

RSI seems like a pretty crappy trend if you ask me

Again, it's in personal use.  Why is it necessary to put everyone into one narrowminded view.  If you're only using the keys in the area, then RSI becomes a non-issue.  FUD and such...?

[iLLucionist]

The idea particularly with the Planck is that your fingers are never more than 2 units away from any key. Add to that the additional thumb modifiers, you can have access to multiple layers very easily without having to move your fingers from the home row.

Since it is completely programmable, you can tailor it to suit your needs. It's not for everyone, but for some people it could be absolutely ideal.

I get it and don't at the same time: couldn't I achieve that while still having the extra 20%? I mean, I don't NEED to use the other 20% continuously. But I get that a 40% is more cleaner.

[iLLucionist]

If I was typing anything other than the alphabet, I would definitely be slower noticeably slower on a 40%.

60% is the smallest I would go for a daily driver and even then, I would miss the arrow keys occasionally.

On my HHKB, I really don't miss the arrow keys. Diamond navigation is also OK. But I can see what you mean.

[iLLucionist]

i've always thought that 40% boards look cute as hell, but they would only be usable for informal typing like IM, seeing as they don't even have punctuation on the default layer

Yeah, they really look lickable. But I would really miss punctuation as a developer. I need that as much, perhaps even more than the alphabet.

I'll probably buy one at some point out of curiosity.

[iLLucionist]

i've always thought that 40% boards look cute as hell, but they would only be usable for informal typing like IM, seeing as they don't even have punctuation on the default layer

Depends on your usage.  I have everything I need for writing on my normal layer.  It acts as a non-distraction mode keyboard for me.  The only thing on my default layer are useful for writing alone.  That, and writemonkey, and some background music, and distractions fade, and work gets done.

* chuckdee shrugs

It's all in personal usage, not in absolutes.

I use goyo.vim in vim.

[iLLucionist]

RSI seems like a pretty crappy trend if you ask me

The only true solution for me personally would be the shape of a microsoft ergonomic 4000 with cherry clears or topre. But that's never gonna happen I guess. I'm not clever enough to do it myself

[KRKS]

I think 40% is too far, and 45% would be my bare minimum for a tablet keyboard or something. And as a daily driver for a desktop I'd rather use a 75%.

[iLLucionist]

I think 40% is too far, and 45% would be my bare minimum for a tablet keyboard or something. And as a daily driver for a desktop I'd rather use a 75%.

I love my HHKB. I thought about buying a pok3r but missing the ~ (tilde) and the ` (backtick) was a no-go for me. I need those keys frequently in vim for python and markdown and terminal work.

[quadibloc]

I just recently bought a Poker 3. I wanted a very portable keyboard for use with a Windows tablet. It is a little awkwards to have to use the Fn key to get at the cursor keys, but it is a solid high-quality keyboard.

[iLLucionist]

I just recently bought a Poker 3. I wanted a very portable keyboard for use with a Windows tablet. It is a little awkwards to have to use the Fn key to get at the cursor keys, but it is a solid high-quality keyboard.

Not missing ~ and ` in the first layer?

[funderburker]

i've always thought that 40% boards look cute as hell, but they would only be usable for informal typing like IM, seeing as they don't even have punctuation on the default layer

Yeah, they really look lickable. But I would really miss punctuation as a developer. I need that as much, perhaps even more than the alphabet.

I'll probably buy one at some point out of curiosity.

Well, I have a 40% and having programming on it for the past two months. It's really not that bad. Yeah, it needs some getting used to but it's quite easy and intuitive if the layer modifiers are set good. I have them under my thumbs and well, it's real easy to type punctuation and numbers. I really have everything under my fingertips, even the Home/End and PageUp/PageDown keys are right around the WASD keys. Because everything's so close I use more keys than before.

I just purchased HHKB though and am waiting to try out 60%. Silly but my first mech was a 40%. I'm going bigger not smaller like usually people are doing.

[iLLucionist]

i've always thought that 40% boards look cute as hell, but they would only be usable for informal typing like IM, seeing as they don't even have punctuation on the default layer

Yeah, they really look lickable. But I would really miss punctuation as a developer. I need that as much, perhaps even more than the alphabet.

I'll probably buy one at some point out of curiosity.

Well, I have a 40% and having programming on it for the past two months. It's really not that bad. Yeah, it needs some getting used to but it's quite easy and intuitive if the layer modifiers are set good. I have them under my thumbs and well, it's real easy to type punctuation and numbers. I really have everything under my fingertips, even the Home/End and PageUp/PageDown keys are right around the WASD keys. Because everything's so close I use more keys than before.

I just purchased HHKB though and am waiting to try out 60%. Silly but my first mech was a 40%. I'm going bigger not smaller like usually people are doing.

You'll love the HHKB. Topre is love. You use vim?

[Sneaky Potato]

I really, really came close to getting a 40%. I mean my finger hovered over the Process Payment button. However, I realized that it's more of an aesthetic thing for me, as opposed to actually more functional. 40% just look really cool. It's like seeing a miniature pony or a miniature teacup dog. You want to hold it and pet it, but you can' t really take it hunting or play with it too roughly. I realized I just wanted to show it off at work, and put some cool keycaps on it. But I knew in my heart that it would just eventually end up on the shelf, like some kind of sad decoration.

I spared myself that pain and cancelled.

[iLLucionist]

I really, really came close to getting a 40%. I mean my finger hovered over the Process Payment button. However, I realized that it's more of an aesthetic thing for me, as opposed to actually more functional. 40% just look really cool. It's like seeing a miniature pony or a miniature teacup dog. You want to hold it and pet it, but you can' t really take it hunting or play with it too roughly. I realized I just wanted to show it off at work, and put some cool keycaps on it. But I knew in my heart that it would just eventually end up on the shelf, like some kind of sad decoration.

I spared myself that pain and cancelled.

I can imagine. That's more how I feel. I really don't see myself continuously switching between layers "coz them looks ye know".

But when I have more money around to throw at random stuff, I'll probably get one anyway. Coz.. boards man!

[funderburker]

i've always thought that 40% boards look cute as hell, but they would only be usable for informal typing like IM, seeing as they don't even have punctuation on the default layer

Yeah, they really look lickable. But I would really miss punctuation as a developer. I need that as much, perhaps even more than the alphabet.

I'll probably buy one at some point out of curiosity.

Well, I have a 40% and having programming on it for the past two months. It's really not that bad. Yeah, it needs some getting used to but it's quite easy and intuitive if the layer modifiers are set good. I have them under my thumbs and well, it's real easy to type punctuation and numbers. I really have everything under my fingertips, even the Home/End and PageUp/PageDown keys are right around the WASD keys. Because everything's so close I use more keys than before.

I just purchased HHKB though and am waiting to try out 60%. Silly but my first mech was a 40%. I'm going bigger not smaller like usually people are doing.

You'll love the HHKB. Topre is love. You use vim?

I hope hope so. If I like it I'll probably use it as my work board. And then get another for home. And the 40% will be my travel board. I have tried vim, know my way around but don't have the time to master it. Using PyCharm mostly, sometimes Sublime. Because of HHKB layout been thinking about learning emacs (spacemacs specifically) because all of the keybindings. PM if you would like to chat about programming stuff someday because we're probably heading off topic.

[jdcarpe]

For me, the JD40 was an exercise in how I could design the smallest possible, rectangular, traditionally staggered, keyboard that included all the alphabet characters, with a standard sized spacebar and a few modifiers. I knew it would be fully programmable, so gamers could program their most used keys and have a very small footprint keyboard to use along with their mouse.

The JD45 was all about making the 40% form factor into a usable keyboard for daily use. The extra column really helps with finger placement, and it also allows for non-QWERTY layouts, such as Dvorak or Colemak.

I build them because they are interesting, to me at least, and not just another TKL or 60% design.

[iLLucionist]

You'll love the HHKB. Topre is love. You use vim?

I hope hope so. If I like it I'll probably use it as my work board. And then get another for home. And the 40% will be my travel board. I have tried vim, know my way around but don't have the time to master it. Using PyCharm mostly, sometimes Sublime. Because of HHKB layout been thinking about learning emacs (spacemacs specifically) because all of the keybindings. PM if you would like to chat about programming stuff someday because we're probably heading off topic.

PM'ed!

[iLLucionist]

For me, the JD40 was an exercise in how I could design the smallest possible, rectangular, traditionally staggered, keyboard that included all the alphabet characters, with a standard sized spacebar and a few modifiers. I knew it would be fully programmable, so gamers could program their most used keys and have a very small footprint keyboard to use along with their mouse.

The JD45 was all about making the 40% form factor into a usable keyboard for daily use. The extra column really helps with finger placement, and it also allows for non-QWERTY layouts, such as Dvorak or Colemak.

I build them because they are interesting, to me at least, and not just another TKL or 60% design.

It is interesting indeed. Do you like it so far? Do you have trouble shifting layers?

[hashbaz]

The utility of these keyboards is that they're cute and fun and are good at showing off keysets and artisans. I could maybe use a 40% at home, but definitely not at work. At the end of the day only about 10% of this hobby is about increased utility. The rest is flash and aesthetics and nostalgia and geeking out and making things and one-upping people on the interent.

[jdcarpe]

It is interesting indeed. Do you like it so far? Do you have trouble shifting layers?

Once you use it for a while, and learn where everything is on the layers, it's not hard to remember as you're typing. I have my numbers set up like a numpad, and everything else is pretty intuitive. For instance WASD for cursor arrows, and }] as a Fn of {[ , "' as a Fn of :; , etc.

The utility of these keyboards is that they're cute and fun and are good at showing off keysets and artisans. I could maybe use a 40% at home, but definitely not at work. At the end of the day only about 10% of this hobby is about increased utility. The rest is flash and aesthetics and nostalgia and geeking out and making things and one-upping people on the interent.

Great point! I wouldn't even think of trying to use one at work. I have a full size 104 I use at the office haha.

[pwade3]

I like the looks of 40% boards but I can't imagine actually using one. I'm currently leaning towards a 66% for my new work board since even an actual 60% still seems like a bit of a jump considering I'm still on a full sized at home.

I think if I were still in school I might want a 40% or 60% to use instead of a crappy laptop keyboard while taking notes, but I didn't discover the joys of mechs or have the income to spend on them until after graduation.

[iLLucionist]

It is interesting indeed. Do you like it so far? Do you have trouble shifting layers?

Once you use it for a while, and learn where everything is on the layers, it's not hard to remember as you're typing. I have my numbers set up like a numpad, and everything else is pretty intuitive. For instance WASD for cursor arrows, and }] as a Fn of {[ , "' as a Fn of :; , etc.

Hey, that doesn't sound to bad actually!

The utility of these keyboards is that they're cute and fun and are good at showing off keysets and artisans. I could maybe use a 40% at home, but definitely not at work. At the end of the day only about 10% of this hobby is about increased utility. The rest is flash and aesthetics and nostalgia and geeking out and making things and one-upping people on the interent.

Great point! I wouldn't even think of trying to use one at work. I have a full size 104 I use at the office haha.

You cheat!

[quadibloc]

Not missing ~ and ` in the first layer?

I would have to check. I thought it was Esc that one has to use the Fn shift key for. But I don't use those two characters very often in regular typing - or the Esc key - so either way, that would not be a great inconvenience.

Ah, you're right; Esc is normally available, and ~ and ` require an Fn-shift. Having to use both shift and Fn for one of the two is the only thing I find inconvenient about that.

[iLLucionist]

Not missing ~ and ` in the first layer?

I would have to check. I thought it was Esc that one has to use the Fn shift key for. But I don't use those two characters very often in regular typing - or the Esc key - so either way, that would not be a great inconvenience.

Ah, you're right; Esc is normally available, and ~ and ` require an Fn-shift. Having to use both shift and Fn for one of the two is the only thing I find inconvenient about that.

Tilde not on layer 1 is not too bad. Only use it for home directory, mostly. Backticks could be mapped to be inserted in vim... only need them for markdown really.

I almost never use esc in vim. I don't miss that either.

Oh no.. I use backticks to cycle windows in OSX.

[streetwizzur]

I like the looks of 40% boards but I can't imagine actually using one. I'm currently leaning towards a 66% for my new work board since even an actual 60% still seems like a bit of a jump considering I'm still on a full sized at home.

I think if I were still in school I might want a 40% or 60% to use instead of a crappy laptop keyboard while taking notes, but I didn't discover the joys of mechs or have the income to spend on them until after graduation.

Once you get over the learning curve, typing on them is super easy. I can type the heck out of my planck because the minimised hand movement. I mostly use it with my tablet though.

[Rad]

Word processing.

[1391406]

40%? Hell, that's nothing:

[jerue]

I've seen 40%'s in person and they are smaller than you think..they would make for a nice travel keyboard if you only needed to crank out a few emails here and there.

I was tempted to get a JD45 HHKB style - this would actually work for me (at work) since I have a dedicated numpad I can use for entering in phone numbers.

I think the only time I'd want a keyboard like this, is if I were novel writing.

[iLLucionist]

I've seen 40%'s in person and they are smaller than you think..they would make for a nice travel keyboard if you only needed to crank out a few emails here and there.

I was tempted to get a JD45 HHKB style - this would actually work for me (at work) since I have a dedicated numpad I can use for entering in phone numbers.

I think the only time I'd want a keyboard like this, is if I were novel writing.

This might actually work for my iPad! Great idea actually. I despise the Apple keyboards.

[chuckdee]

I've seen 40%'s in person and they are smaller than you think..they would make for a nice travel keyboard if you only needed to crank out a few emails here and there.

I was tempted to get a JD45 HHKB style - this would actually work for me (at work) since I have a dedicated numpad I can use for entering in phone numbers.

I think the only time I'd want a keyboard like this, is if I were novel writing.

This might actually work for my iPad! Great idea actually. I despise the Apple keyboards.

I have a logitech that I carry around for my iPad.  It actually feels better than you'd think.

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Keys-To-Go-Ultra-Portable-Bluetooth-920-006701/dp/B00R0I71S4