Author Topic: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL  (Read 54102 times)

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Offline stoic-lemon

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #150 on: Fri, 03 June 2016, 02:51:21 »
ANSI Orthopad looks like the one for me.

Offline hammelgammler

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #151 on: Fri, 03 June 2016, 09:03:00 »
Where would the Silicon Graphics SGI Granite keyboard fall under?

Same thing I'm wanting but with 1u keys inbetween the 1.5 ALTs and CTRLs.

That's exactly what I want too.

Offline tofgerl

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #152 on: Fri, 03 June 2016, 12:37:21 »
Some of those layouts I've never even heard of...? ANSI BAE?

Are you really going to do plates for all of those?

Offline joey

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #153 on: Fri, 03 June 2016, 12:39:52 »
Some of those layouts I've never even heard of...? ANSI BAE?

Are you really going to do plates for all of those?
BAE = Big Ass Enter

Offline mrbishop

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #154 on: Fri, 03 June 2016, 13:06:22 »
Some of those layouts I've never even heard of...? ANSI BAE?

Are you really going to do plates for all of those?
BAE = Big Ass Enter
my bae loves that big ass enter  :p
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Offline BlueNalgene

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #155 on: Fri, 03 June 2016, 14:44:59 »
I know it's a little niche but for people like me who can patch together caps from an AEK and M0116 an AEKII layout with the HHKB upper-right (1u `~, 1u |\, 1.5u Bksp) would be super. Combine it with a short-right shift and it would be my dream layout   :)

Edit: I understand on a TKL we can have the `~ on the number stripe, but I rather like ESC there and then I can map something fun up at the ESC position on the F-stripe.

If I understand you correctly, you want the Infinity-esque layout with a different bottom row to accommodate AEK caps?  A pic would help.

Where would the Silicon Graphics SGI Granite keyboard fall under?

Same thing I'm wanting but with 1u keys inbetween the 1.5 ALTs and CTRLs.

That's exactly what I want too.

Everybody likes stepped caps locks, right?



Are you really going to do plates for all of those?

I hope to have whatever someone wants to build available.  Last time I made my quote with the super nice grill company I worked with by telling them they were going to be cutting a bunch of different things that were all the same size.  I told them to price based on the most complicated one to build, and we went from there.  Alps suffers from not having as many cut and dried sets available.  Being able to cater to the myriad of things users want to build is essential.  That is part of why I put so much time into the extras on the PCB.  I want all these different projects to be compatible on a single board.  When Alps wranglers like me start simplifying this, the layouts and such will eventually become more codified like the Cherry ones.

Offline merlin64

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #156 on: Fri, 03 June 2016, 14:49:32 »
Thank you so much for your efforts. If only we could get someone to run another Alps keycap set.
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Offline emdude

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #157 on: Fri, 03 June 2016, 15:50:15 »
And a PBT set at that!  But perhaps that is asking too much..

When Alps wranglers like me start simplifying this, the layouts and such will eventually become more codified like the Cherry ones.

Unfortunately, I don't think this can happen until the AEK layout can be retired.  Without a good 103/104 key set, the weird layout will remain the standard.
Current drivers: IBM Model M SSK

Offline hammelgammler

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #158 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 11:14:51 »
I like a stepped capslock more then a non-stepped! You could use a full SGI dyesub set with the layout above, that would be awesome.

Offline Spaceman1200

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #159 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 12:35:58 »
I'm game for a at101w layout
« Last Edit: Sun, 05 June 2016, 12:59:19 by Spaceman1200 »

Offline jbondeson

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #160 on: Mon, 06 June 2016, 09:54:32 »
If I understand you correctly, you want the Infinity-esque layout with a different bottom row to accommodate AEK caps?  A pic would help.

That and the rotated F-row. So this:

Offline BlueNalgene

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #161 on: Mon, 06 June 2016, 15:05:15 »
I just had an email conversation with Steve at Matias.  We have confirmation that the prices will be as glorious as last time (provided we meet quantity requirements).  I'm going to make the assumption that we can do another 9600 switches easily.  If we do, the price will be $0.14 each.  I might charge $0.15 each to cover the shipping costs of the switches from Matias to me (something I didn't plan for last time).

The MOQ for the stabilizers is 10.  Honestly, I might meet that MOQ myself.  Those sets will be $5 each.

Offline Delirious

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #162 on: Mon, 06 June 2016, 16:48:55 »
Have we decided on case compatibility for TKL yet? I'm still very much confused about the F row spacing between Phantom/Costar and Gon/LZ so I can't tell from just looking at the layout. Thanks.

Offline tofgerl

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #163 on: Mon, 06 June 2016, 17:38:29 »
And 5x4 for the TK I assume?

This is looking sweeter and sweeter...

Offline cerement

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #164 on: Mon, 06 June 2016, 22:01:31 »
[deleted]
« Last Edit: Thu, 05 July 2018, 22:54:28 by cerement »

Offline BlueNalgene

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #165 on: Tue, 07 June 2016, 16:42:41 »
… F row spacing between Phantom/Costar and Gon/LZ so I can't tell from just looking at the layout …

Filco/Costar/Phantom/QFR/TEX TKL/KUL/WASD/Nixeus/Ducky:
  • 0.5u space between Fn row and number row
  • indicator LEDs under keys or between Print/Scroll/Pause and nav cluster
  • USB socket underneath keyboard, between F8 and F9, or in middle (kind of under F7)
  • case usually has internal shelf since the stock plates have small downward lips

“Korean Customs”/Duck/LZ/TGR/GON?:
  • 0.25u space between Fn row and number row
  • indicator LEDs under keys or between nav cluster and arrow keys
  • USB between F12 and Print or in the middle (kind of under F7)
  • plates have 5 extensions each on top and bottom with screw holes that fit into recesses in the case (gets sandwiched between top and bottom of case)

Thanks for this info.  It really codified what I needed to figure out since I don't actually own any of those cases.

The case compatibility will be {Filco/Costar/Phantom/QFR/TEX TKL/KUL/WASD/Nixeus/Ducky} type.  The USB needs to be moved to fit this center convention.  The case compatibility decision was originally based on the sandwhich style cases which Moz standardized many moons ago.  I believe this is best, because I want the users to have as many DIY options open to them, even if most end up choosing a premade case.

Seriously Cerement, I'm not sure where you got that compatibility list, but I love you for posting it.

Offline cerement

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #166 on: Tue, 07 June 2016, 21:05:31 »
[deleted]
« Last Edit: Thu, 05 July 2018, 22:53:46 by cerement »

Offline merlin64

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #167 on: Tue, 07 June 2016, 23:35:49 »
I can confirm that KUL does the same thing. Recently a member had some issues with their usb port, and they were able to just swap out the small pcb without desoldering anything.
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Offline BlueNalgene

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #168 on: Fri, 10 June 2016, 15:30:51 »
Par for the course, I have some more changes to make.  At this time, I'm working on Dom.



This is a breakout board I'd like to offer with the Dom kit.  It is a calculator display addon.  All parts are through-hole like a good soldering kit, so there shouldn't be any issues assembling it for those who want one.  It mounts onto the board with headers over the USB connections (I'll show those changes soon).  This is a Charlieplexed LED display, so it will be a "fun" programming challenge for those of you nerds out there who get off on that sort of stuff.  The atmega will drive the LED's at a low duty cycle. 



This is the schematic.  Nothing too outrageous. 

I'm not sure if this breakout will work, but I'm going to print one out and see how it goes.

Offline Norman_the_Owl

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #169 on: Fri, 10 June 2016, 18:53:42 »
I vote to rename this project Rabbit Hole...

Because deeper and deeper we go! I love it! I'm definitely no coder, but i would totally get that addon...and then proceed to mooch off of someone else's code lol

Offline Zealousy

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #170 on: Tue, 14 June 2016, 16:27:34 »
The Rosa Tenkey looks lovely. I'd have to say firm pass on the Dom TKL, but I'm loving all the hard work you're putting into it!

I know ALPS people like the Mac style numpad, but I'd really prefer to stick with the long 0, big enter, big plus, numlock design standard.

Offline BlueNalgene

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #171 on: Tue, 21 June 2016, 13:31:34 »
Hey folks.  I've been super busy the past week or two.  I'm just now getting around to updating.

I upgraded KiCAD and updated the Dom design.  I ordered the prototypes last night for the Dom and for the DomCalc breakout board.  I have nothing exciting to show you right now, but I wanted everyone to know that I'm still alive and working on this.

Offline BlueNalgene

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #172 on: Wed, 22 June 2016, 17:17:01 »
Posting things



This is the latest board.  The prototype is being made currently.



Here is the updated case, rendered in bead blasted Al.

I have a version on Shapeways, and the cheap white SLS costs >$70 to 3D print with no errors.  Not bad.

Offline mrbishop

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #173 on: Wed, 22 June 2016, 20:01:47 »
oh my. things are getting better and better in this tread. :D

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Offline romevi

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #174 on: Wed, 22 June 2016, 22:51:10 »
Posting things

Show Image


This is the latest board.  The prototype is being made currently.

Show Image


Here is the updated case, rendered in bead blasted Al.

I have a version on Shapeways, and the cheap white SLS costs >$70 to 3D print with no errors.  Not bad.

I'm in love with that case.

Offline mrbishop

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #175 on: Wed, 22 June 2016, 23:54:00 »
Posting things

Show Image


This is the latest board.  The prototype is being made currently.

Show Image


Here is the updated case, rendered in bead blasted Al.

I have a version on Shapeways, and the cheap white SLS costs >$70 to 3D print with no errors.  Not bad.

I'm in love with that case.


shhhhh i saw it first  :rolleyes:
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Offline tofgerl

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #176 on: Thu, 23 June 2016, 10:41:30 »
Relax, I'm sure she has a sister!

Offline BlueNalgene

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #177 on: Thu, 23 June 2016, 14:44:21 »
Rosa Update



I moved the USB to the center of the board.  It should be more compatible this way.  I can't guarantee that though, since I don't have the means to test it.  To facilitate this move, I am going to use a small breakout board mounted on pin headers for the USB.  This will attach directly beneath the F7.  I don't like the idea of putting a communication port on headers, but it seems that this is an accepted method in the Filco/KUL/etc. cases. 

Also, I figured out that I can fillet GND planes!  So sexy.  This will be on the TK board as well, but not until after I'm done prototyping.  It is less expensive to get right angle board corners for little one-offs.



It took a while to do this, because I had to rewire the board from scratch to facilitate the move.  Now I'm going to make the design for the case.  Thankfully, my experiments are slow this week (2 minutes of work, then 24 hours of waiting) so I have plenty of time to get this stuff rolling again.


Offline joey

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #178 on: Thu, 23 June 2016, 14:48:20 »
What do you mean by fillet GND planes?

Offline BlueNalgene

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #179 on: Thu, 23 June 2016, 15:48:41 »
What do you mean by fillet GND planes?

I put Cu back planes in all of my boards connected to the common GND.  In KiCAD, you put this in with a "Filled Zone" you designate with a polygon.  It would be a pain in the ass to make your polygon have rounded corners if you want to have rounded corners of the PCB (like I have in the latest Rosa).  I looked around the Filled Zone options and noticed that there was a fillet option.  So I set it to match the fillet radius of the PCB.

Offline joey

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #180 on: Thu, 23 June 2016, 15:51:09 »
What do you mean by fillet GND planes?

I put Cu back planes in all of my boards connected to the common GND.  In KiCAD, you put this in with a "Filled Zone" you designate with a polygon.  It would be a pain in the ass to make your polygon have rounded corners if you want to have rounded corners of the PCB (like I have in the latest Rosa).  I looked around the Filled Zone options and noticed that there was a fillet option.  So I set it to match the fillet radius of the PCB.
Can you show the PCB with and without this option? I have rounded edges on my PCBs with planes and never used the fillet option.

Offline BlueNalgene

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #181 on: Thu, 23 June 2016, 16:07:45 »
What do you mean by fillet GND planes?

I put Cu back planes in all of my boards connected to the common GND.  In KiCAD, you put this in with a "Filled Zone" you designate with a polygon.  It would be a pain in the ass to make your polygon have rounded corners if you want to have rounded corners of the PCB (like I have in the latest Rosa).  I looked around the Filled Zone options and noticed that there was a fillet option.  So I set it to match the fillet radius of the PCB.
Can you show the PCB with and without this option? I have rounded edges on my PCBs with planes and never used the fillet option.

Gladly.  I did some experimenting with it too.  It seems that the GND plane fillet only really matters if the edge.cuts does not match the fillet.



The edge.cuts fillet is 5mm done with the arc drawing tool.  The filled zone fillet is done in 5mm to match.

Offline joey

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #182 on: Thu, 23 June 2016, 16:13:57 »
I'm still confused.



I have no filleting.

Offline BlueNalgene

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #183 on: Thu, 23 June 2016, 16:17:31 »
A big shout out to the eagle-eye'd Unoab for spotting a mistake with the breakout board.



Can you spot the difference?  Would you have noticed a mistake with the first one if I didn't say anything?

Offline BlueNalgene

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #184 on: Thu, 23 June 2016, 16:20:59 »
I'm still confused.

Show Image


I have no filleting.

No, that looks how it supposed to.  There would only be a noticeable difference if you didn't have the rounded edge.cut.  The zone 'edge' still sticks out beyond the rounded edge.cut, but that is normal.  The copper is only filled inside the board.

Side-note: Do you have a plane on the front and the back?  Do you have capacitance issues with that?

Offline joey

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #185 on: Thu, 23 June 2016, 16:25:04 »
IDidn't notice that before, but I did know.

(Also, see my previous post, I'm not really sure what filleting changes still!)

Offline BlueNalgene

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #186 on: Thu, 23 June 2016, 19:13:32 »
Rosa Case



Custom 11° risers


Offline Norman_the_Owl

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #187 on: Fri, 24 June 2016, 16:54:10 »
Wow, those risers are killer.

Offline McPwned

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #188 on: Sat, 25 June 2016, 09:51:57 »
Wow, those risers are killer.
No kidding, I think they look fantastic.

Do they go on the numpad as well?

Offline joey

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #189 on: Sat, 25 June 2016, 09:54:18 »
I'm still confused.

Show Image


I have no filleting.

No, that looks how it supposed to.  There would only be a noticeable difference if you didn't have the rounded edge.cut.  The zone 'edge' still sticks out beyond the rounded edge.cut, but that is normal.  The copper is only filled inside the board.

Side-note: Do you have a plane on the front and the back?  Do you have capacitance issues with that?
Yep, GND plane on both front and back. No issues that I know of.

Offline Moistgun

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #190 on: Sat, 25 June 2016, 10:06:21 »
Rosa Case

Show Image


Custom 11° risers

Show Image


That is so freaking cool, and mad simple.

Offline Spaceman1200

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #191 on: Sat, 25 June 2016, 10:28:49 »
Those Risers man, great looking project you have going

Offline tmrmn

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #192 on: Sat, 25 June 2016, 14:32:52 »
Love the hacker space idea. It's insane how many cool things and layouts you are able to cramp on one PCB.

Offline Wingpad

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #193 on: Mon, 27 June 2016, 11:32:18 »
Wow, I didn't know this was happening until Blaise170 pointed it out to me. Really cool stuff happening here so I'm looking forward to seeing your progress, BlueNalgene! Also, I'd be game for an Infinity-esque Rosa/TKL :thumb:
Current Drivers: Black Dell AT101W (Orange Alps, AT101 Caps) | IBM Model M (1994, Industrialized)
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Offline BlueNalgene

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #194 on: Fri, 01 July 2016, 12:44:44 »
I finally got the prototype boards in the mail.







I'll be assembling them this weekend and then getting the programming going soon after that.  There are some issues with these boards, notably that they have not drilled any slots, only a single hole from each slot.  I think (hope) that is just an issue with OSH Park, but I have sent some emails to the engineers at Advanced PCB to make sure I have the notation right for the final product.

Offline mrbishop

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #195 on: Fri, 01 July 2016, 12:46:50 »
OSHpark doesn't do slotting :(

i need to find a drill hole footprint for alps/cherry too i think
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Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #196 on: Mon, 04 July 2016, 05:21:19 »
OSHpark doesn't do slotting :(

i need to find a drill hole footprint for alps/cherry too i think

They do, but you need to have the slot represented as a series of overlapping holes.

Offline mrbishop

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #197 on: Mon, 04 July 2016, 06:16:41 »
OSHpark doesn't do slotting :(

i need to find a drill hole footprint for alps/cherry too i think

They do, but you need to have the slot represented as a series of overlapping holes.
Right.
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Offline duhhey

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #198 on: Mon, 04 July 2016, 11:27:36 »
Rosa Case

Show Image


Custom 11° risers

Show Image


Love the design

Offline BlueNalgene

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Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
« Reply #199 on: Thu, 07 July 2016, 17:07:18 »
Good news, folks.  The latest Dom prototype has been built.  I built it over the past two very busy days and did electrical connection testing (and correcting my ****ups) today.  I am still seeing some connection between pads not wired together, but I think that the ganged overcurrent pins in the TI chip are causing that. 





The next step is to load a bootloader and program this puppy.  I have never put a bootloader on before, so that will be a small challenge.  Additionally, I forgot to put FTDI on this board, so it is going to be an uphill battle with a tangle of wires.  The first program will probably just be a barely modified hasu's code just to see if the damn thing works.  Then a second test with code for the calculator will have to be written.  I plan on shipping things before the code is finalized.  This is due to my poor programming skill.  If others are just getting theirs assembled when the firmware is being finalized, there will be more opportunities to test.

I'm a bit frustrated, because this project is taking longer than I would like.  I'm one of those people who is in danger of running out of steam on this kind of thing, so if I start slacking be sure to put me in my place.  I have yet another consulting gig coming up next week (which is actually pretty ****ing awesome) in addition to field work and my regular experiments, so this is going to drag on some more.  I also worry that the longer this takes, the less salient it becomes.  I know people will start to get distracted and bored if I take too long getting this out.  I'm working on it folks.  Please don't get discouraged, I don't intend to forget about you.

NINJA EDIT: the soldering looks like **** on the prototype board because it is a prototype that has been soldered and resoldered multiple times.  Real versions won't be nearly as ugly.