Author Topic: Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo  (Read 23413 times)

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Offline GenEric35

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 10:31:03 »
EDIT:  3 weeks in now, can't say I master the alternate layout it, it's a blank version so there's no reference just slow progress


EDIT: 4 weeks in, I found out there are 3 levels of adjustments, flat was too flat, and big feet was too angled, then I see there is a small foot inside the bit foot? small foot is win, this is a feature I wasn't aware of, an extra feature, imma bump my subjective appreciation rating from 6.5 to 7/10.

EDIT: 1 Month in, for some reason the keys started feeling more comfortable, probably what is referred to as good feeling of oneness with cup rubber.
I guess the keyboard grow on me as time went by and I'll keep it.
My current position on it is it cost a lot, too much, at this price PFU should bundle it with key puller, roof, wrist rest and carrying case, or sell it the same price as the good mechanical keyboards.


yup, just like all the rubber dome keyboard, you can press the key until the dome collapse and give you a 'tactile' feedback, then release the key without it registering anything, very likely the price was set by someone typing on a HHKB Pro2, and typed 250$ instead of 25$

first impressions,
1-double the price of the best mechanical boards. And 10 to 20 times! the price of it's close cousin rubber dome boards
EDIT: After staying away from mechanical keyboards and using a rubber dome keyboard at work as opposed to mechanical, the difference between cheap rubber and good rubber becomes more obvious.


2-has half the keys, 60 switches instead of 104, they can make 2 keyboards for the price of one

3-dip switches that allow you to reassign 3 pre-detemined keys(can't assign fn the right alt and right meta key only?), out of your 60 keys... using dip switches? 3 keys only?  give that engineer a noble prize.

4-almost no tactile feedback, rubber dome, there is no way to know your key registered, just like a rubber dome you have to trust that it will register, and just like a rubber dome you can press it and make the dome collapse without the key press registering, i can release the key after the dome collapsing and the key has not registered, it has all the flaws of a rubber dome, any of my buckling spring board will register every time, the tactile bump, the click sound, the key registering, all the at the exact same time. The HHKB Pro 2 is not a board i would rely my or someone's money on(missing a zero, or adding an extra one in data entry), setting an administrator password, wouldn't trust this in any medical or aeronautical application, so what's left, I wouldn't trust it for anything, maybe hobby computing, if it's not anything close to serious, which leaves good for writing forum posts, emails and chat.  

EDIT: haven't had any misshaps with typos, if a typing test can be considered a practical example, my missrate improved, i make 4% errors in typing tests, an improvement from the 5-6% constant missrate i had with other my other keyboards

5-alternate layout for arrows, end and page up keys,
someone coded autohotkey for free(give him and script contributors a medal of honor) it might not be embedded in the board, but those keys are the last ones that could benefit from a 1 microsecond improvement.

EDIT: autohotkey had limitations when i used remote desktop and vmware, with other keyboards i had to reload the script each time i open a session, while the hhkb dosent have that problem


My current board was a model M, very slightly greased, it's accurate, a click is a key code sent instantly, never misses, no way to make it miss even on purpose, it's a 23 years old keyboard and been heavily used. Having added it an almost microscopic coat of grease inside each key stem dampens it enough to allow me to use this Model M at 2am knowing my neighbor sleeps about 10 feet right above my computer desk, impossible to do with a default Unicomp Customizer, the
customizer i constantly had to hold back, or even stop typing and working, it was a problem. In terms of sound, my Model M(it's not the typical cacophonic M) and the HHKB Pro2 are in the same noise bracket except the HHKB Pro2's space bar is noisier. My model M has almost no grease, nearly invisible, if i wanted to dampen it more, there is still alot of room left, but it's already as quiet as the HHKB Pro2.

This is an early review, at this point i'm not sure i would return it(not like I can anyway) but Filco blue might be a better choice, regardless of the price, considering the other arguments above, id give this board no more than a 5/10, now factor in the cost arguments above, this would drop more.

EDIT: ill bump my appreciation from 5 to 6.5 since altho it started bad, there was no unpleasant surprises on any of the computer/OS i tried in the last 3 weeks, it's been on the market for a long time and it shows since it's compatible with everything I throw at it. EDIT: And from 6.5 to 7/10 since the 3 level angle adjustment is a ergonomic feature i wasn't aware of, using the smaller feet(the ones hidden inside the big feet). Unnexpected good feeling of oneness with cup rubber, this keyboard's a keeper, blocking out how much I paid for it and bumping it for a final rating of 8/10.

From the current point, it's likely it will it might rank a bit higher if I keep using it, the only way it could get lower is if it breaks, actually i would probably be less disappointed and have more hope if it had came in broke.

Isn't there a show for these kind of things? mythbuster or something?

On a side note, very happy with the Filco wrist rest that came with it


EDIT: 1 Month after buying this keyboard, keys feel comfortable, either the cup have a break-in period or it's muscle memory of the previous keyboard.
« Last Edit: Fri, 22 January 2010, 21:51:48 by GenEric35 »
:target: HHKB Pro 2  
IBM Model M 1390131
Unicomp Customizer

Offline ch_123

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 10:36:33 »
For what it's worth, most people who've gotten them recently have been like "Meh". Then after some use they tend to like them a lot. Same with Cherry Browns. However, If you were expecting something as in your face as the Model M, you obviously didn't do your homework.

Quote
2-has half the keys, 60 switches instead of 104, they can make 2 keyboards for the price of one

...

5-alternate layout for arrows, end and page up keys, someone coded
autohotkey for free(give him and script contributors a medal of honor) it might not be embedded in the board, but those keys are the last ones that could benefit from a 1 microsecond improvement.
Should have gone to Specsavers.

Now that I think of it, no one outside of the British Isles will get that one...
« Last Edit: Tue, 22 December 2009, 10:44:41 by ch_123 »

Offline GenEric35

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 10:54:53 »
Quote from: ripster;144454
I think the Canadian Customs officials confiscated the Vestal Virgins under each key.

Although everybody has different opinions on the HHKB2 I tend to think it's really meant for programmers because it's appeal is more the layout than the switch.

Sorry Ripster, but if I wasn't a programmer, there wouldn't be much left of me

hopefully it will pass, if things do turn out better, like it did for many, be assured I will post the good sides as well
« Last Edit: Tue, 22 December 2009, 11:04:21 by GenEric35 »
:target: HHKB Pro 2  
IBM Model M 1390131
Unicomp Customizer

Offline GenEric35

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 11:09:41 »
Quote from: ch_123;144452
Should have gone to Specsavers.

Now that I think of it, no one outside of the British Isles will get that one...

Hi Ch, I see you link the the Topre tenkeyless, but the hhkb ayout is not a problem, it's just something I will get use to, but I was disapointed at how customizable the dip switches were, it allows to assign fn to left alt and/or left windows key, but the right alt and right windows key are just hardcoded there

as far as doing my homework, I expected it to be quieter than my model M but some things can't be recorded, just like the feel of the key press cannot realy be described until you tried it, and didnt expect the exact same feel as rubber dome board,

I mean i go the hhkb pro2 on the my desk, my 1986 Model and a 1995 rubber dome Model M on sitting on my lap, comparing the hhkb and the rubber model M keypress is same, where is that hhkb 'cushion' or fart, there has to be an explanation that could explain the cost, maybe the it's a biological membrane that needs mutate into a cushion than will start farting? Alteast it doesn't fart...
« Last Edit: Tue, 22 December 2009, 11:39:59 by GenEric35 »
:target: HHKB Pro 2  
IBM Model M 1390131
Unicomp Customizer

Offline patrickgeekhack

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 14:12:25 »
I said it in another thread, a click+pronounced tactile point combination is the best combination for typing accurately. This is why I'm fastest and most accurate on my blue Cherries keyboard. I have become very fast on my Topre, but not as accurate as I were on my blue Cherries.

That being said, I was not disappointed like you were. First, I could get my keys to fire half-way all the time, and second, once I discovered the "good feeling of oneness with cup rubber," typing on the Topre became addictive.  And third, I had gradually moved to lighter and lighter switches before I tried the Topre. Moving from a Model M to a HHKB can require a fair amount of time to get used to. Use it for a month and then evaluate it. You may well still don't like it then. After all, we are all different. Some like it, some don't, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Cherry MX Blue: Cherry G80-3000, Das Keyboard Model S Ultimate
Cherry MX Brown: Filco Majestouch, Compaq MX11800
ALPS: AEK, AEK II, Northgate Omnikey Ultra, Matias Tactile Pro 4
Topre: Realforce 103UB
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M 1390120
Previous owned: Unicomp Customizer 104, IBM Model M 1390141, ABS M1

Offline leos

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 14:15:28 »
Quote from: GenEric35;144449
yup, just like all the rubber dome keyboard, you can press the key until the dome collapse and give you a 'tactile' feedback, then release the key without it registering anything, very likely the price was set by someone typing on a HHKB Pro2, and typed 250$ instead of 25$



first impressions,
1-double the price of the best mechanical boards. And 10 to 20 times! the price of it's close cousin rubber dome boards


This is your opinion. I think the same about Ibm Model M


Quote from: GenEric35;144449
2-has half the keys, 60 switches instead of 104, they can make 2 keyboards for the price of one

Spacesaver? minis cost always more then a usual 104/105 layout keyboard

Quote from: GenEric35;144449
3-dip switches that allow you to reassign 3 pre-detemined keys(can't assign fn the right alt and right meta key only?), out of your 60 keys... 3 keys only? using dip switches? give that engineer a noble prize.

what did you expect? minimalist is the right word.

Quote from: GenEric35;144449
4-no tactile feedback what soever, rubber dome, there is no way to know your key registered, just like a rubber dome you have to trust that it will register, and just like a rubber dome you can press it and make the dome collapse without the key press registering, i can release the key after the dome collapsing and the key has not registered, it has all the flaws of a rubber dome, any of my buckling spring board will register every time, the tactile bump, the click sound, the key registering, all the at the exact same time. The HHKB Pro 2 is not a board i would rely my or someone's money on(missing a zero, or adding an extra one in data entry), setting an administrator password, wouldn't trust this in any medical or aeronautical application, so what's left, I wouldn't trust it for anything, maybe hobby computing, if it's not anything close to serious, which leaves good for writing forum posts, emails and chat.  

Maybe take a faulty HHKB?
and i assume you have spent too much work time on a buckling spring keyboard. Work first with the HHKB for a week and make a new review.



Quote from: GenEric35;144449
5-alternate layout for arrows, end and page up keys,
someone coded autohotkey for free(give him and script contributors a medal of honor) it might not be embedded in the board, but those keys are the last ones that could benefit from a 1 microsecond improvement.

I'm coming from a model M, very slightly greased, it's accurate, a click is a key code sent instantly, never misses, no way to make it miss even on purpose, it's a 23 years old keyboard and been heavily used. Having added it an almost microscopic coat of grease inside each key stem dampens it enough to allow me to use this Model M at 2am knowing my neighbor sleeps about 10 feet right above my computer desk, impossible to do with a default Unicomp Customizer, the
customizer i constantly had to hold back, or even stop typing and working, it was a problem. In terms of sound, my Model M(it's not the typical cacophonic M) and the HHKB Pro2 are in the same noise bracket except the HHKB Pro2's space bar is noisier. My model M has almost no grease, nearly invisible, if i wanted to dampen it more, there is still alot of room left, but it's already as quiet as the HHKB Pro2.

here you lie



Quote from: GenEric35;144449
This is an early review,

Yes it is.


Quote from: GenEric35;144449
at this point i'm not sure i would return it(not like I can anyway) but Filco blue might be a better choice, regardless of the price, considering the other arguments above, id give this board no more than a 5/10, now factor in the cost arguments above, this would drop more.

From the current point, it's likely it will it might rank a bit higher if I keep using it, the only way it could get lower is if it breaks, actually i would probably be less disappointed and have more hope if it had came in broke.

Isn't there a show for these kind of things? mythbuster or something?

On a side note, very happy with the Filco wrist rest that came with it

Just i say your opinion. Take time and you see lot of positive aspects like,
lighter keystroke, farting!!, if you press more then one keys the feeling is heavier, topre sound, spacesaver and a layout that work.
« Last Edit: Tue, 22 December 2009, 14:22:36 by leos »
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline leos

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 14:20:07 »
Quote from: GenEric35;144457
Sorry Ripster, but if I wasn't a programmer, there wouldn't be much left of me

hopefully it will pass, if things do turn out better, like it did for many, be assured I will post the good sides as well


i write a lot code on visual studio, eclipse and netbeans and i am use a HHKB on work. Just i say before, take time.
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline leos

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 14:26:40 »
btw if you do not want your HHKB anymore, you find for sure a geekhacker who will be glad to buy it!!!!!
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline microsoft windows

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 14:45:52 »
I'll buy it for $5.
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Offline leos

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 14:52:54 »
Quote from: microsoft windows;144511
I'll buy it for $5.

 
i give 100$

 and 1$ for the model m
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline microsoft windows

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 14:53:59 »
Guess you outbid me. Oh, well. I bet those Topres don't feel much different than my old Dell keyboard from 1995.
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Offline patrickgeekhack

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 14:55:42 »
Quote from: microsoft windows;144519
Guess you outbid me. Oh, well. I bet those Topres don't feel much different than my old Dell keyboard from 1995.


Are you sure? :-)
Cherry MX Blue: Cherry G80-3000, Das Keyboard Model S Ultimate
Cherry MX Brown: Filco Majestouch, Compaq MX11800
ALPS: AEK, AEK II, Northgate Omnikey Ultra, Matias Tactile Pro 4
Topre: Realforce 103UB
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M 1390120
Previous owned: Unicomp Customizer 104, IBM Model M 1390141, ABS M1

Offline leos

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 14:58:40 »
Quote from: microsoft windows;144519
Guess you outbid me.


i think to recycle the model m do not cost more then 1 dollar


Quote from: microsoft windows;144519

 Oh, well. I bet those Topres don't feel much different than my old Dell keyboard from 1995.



and i think you lose the bet
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline microsoft windows

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 15:02:45 »
Well, different keyboards are right for different people.
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Offline patrickgeekhack

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 15:09:54 »
Quote from: microsoft windows;144526
Well, different keyboards are right for different people.


You got this one right.
Cherry MX Blue: Cherry G80-3000, Das Keyboard Model S Ultimate
Cherry MX Brown: Filco Majestouch, Compaq MX11800
ALPS: AEK, AEK II, Northgate Omnikey Ultra, Matias Tactile Pro 4
Topre: Realforce 103UB
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M 1390120
Previous owned: Unicomp Customizer 104, IBM Model M 1390141, ABS M1

Offline leos

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 15:15:49 »
Quote from: microsoft windows;144526
Well, different keyboards are right for different people.


if this makes you feel better,i am same Opinion with you.

its very difficult for me to go back to a heavier Model m.
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline bigpook

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 15:23:22 »
while its been awhile since I typed on an HHKB; I do remember it being the smoothest feeling key I have ever used. I don't see the comparison to the el cheapo rubber dome keyboard at all.
IIRC,it didn't take me long to get used to it either, the layout was different but after a bit it made total sense.

I think a big part of it is the reality of paying close to 300 dollars for a keyboard. I don't think it lives up to the price, at all.  For 300 dollars I expect dinner and a reach around.
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline leos

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 15:49:24 »
you can take a model m for 0$ here..
and here ...http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822148,00.html but you do not find a single HHKB. Now we know also why the HHKB is so expensive.
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline microsoft windows

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 17:30:10 »
Quote from: leos;144547
you can take a model m for 0$ here..
Show Image

and here ...http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822148,00.html but you do not find a single HHKB. Now we know also why the HHKB is so expensive.


I spotted some thick old IBM's. Not sure if they're the run-of-the-mill Model M though.
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Offline microsoft windows

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 17:36:01 »
Quote from: leos;144524
i think to recycle the model m do not cost more then 1 dollar





and i think you lose the bet


Do you have an old Quietkey (One of the originals)? They are the best rubber domes I have ever used. Each key has a slider and has extremely smooth action, and when you press a key down hard, it bottoms out and just stops (I'm sure you guys have seen many rubber dome keyboards where they feel "creaky" after you bottom out on them and press more). In addition, there's a spring-loaded space bar and all large keys have stablizers. I can press any key in any corner of the keycap and it'll move down nice and smoothly. In addition, each key requires very little pressure compared to an IBM or an ALPS. Next time you see an old Quietkey in your workplace's trash, take a look at it and see if it's a good one (Later models feel terrible).

I haven't felt a Topre but this Quietkey feels just how you guys described a Topre except it is about $300 cheaper and isn't capacitive. And it's ugly and yellowed too.
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Offline hacfed

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 17:42:51 »
I have only one workstation but several keyboards... and I'd sooner sell my workstation than my HHKB, if I was flat ass broke and in need of cash.

My HHKB gives me so much joy, I haven't questioned the purchase even once. What did I pay for it again, $288 shipped to Ireland? Pfft. Bargain. If it bit the dust tomorrow I'd buy another one.

Different strokes for different folks. Just my 2c. :)
I respectfully decline the invitation to join your delusion.


Offline microsoft windows

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« Reply #21 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 17:48:59 »
If it feels like me Quietkey, then I understand why you like it a lot. But I think my favorite keyswitch is the Model M's buckling spring since it clicks and can withstand quite a pounding.
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Offline hacfed

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 18:05:14 »
There's a reason I have both, but the M doesn't see a whole lot of action to be honest. It's a fine example - from 1995, and all rivets intact. Took a cup of coffee a while back and still operating perfectly after a good clean. The HHKB on the other hand is a weak little thing, but so far so good with it.
I respectfully decline the invitation to join your delusion.


Offline ch_123

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 18:19:11 »
Quote from: bigpook;144539
I don't see the comparison to the el cheapo rubber dome keyboard at all.

Yeah, I love how that one is espoused by people who have never tried a Topre board, and have seemingly no interest in doing so.

So, in the two-three weeks that I have left -

JAPANESE RUBBER DOME. JAPANESE RUBBER DOME. JAPANESE RUBBER DOME. JAPANESE RUBBER DOME. JAPANESE RUBBER DOME. JAPANESE RUBBER DOME. JAPANESE RUBBER DOME. JAPANESE RUBBER DOME. JAPANESE RUBBER DOME. JAPANESE RUBBER DOME. JAPANESE RUBBER DOME. JAPANESE RUBBER DOME. JAPANESE RUBBER DOME.

Offline bigpook

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 18:39:42 »
Quote from: ch_123;144594
Yeah, I love how that one is espoused by people who have never tried a Topre board, and have seemingly no interest in doing so.

So, in the two-three weeks that I have left -

JAPANESE RUBBER DOME. JAPANESE RUBBER DOME. JAPANESE RUBBER DOME. JAPANESE RUBBER DOME. JAPANESE RUBBER DOME. JAPANESE RUBBER DOME. JAPANESE RUBBER DOME. JAPANESE RUBBER DOME. JAPANESE RUBBER DOME. JAPANESE RUBBER DOME. JAPANESE RUBBER DOME. JAPANESE RUBBER DOME. JAPANESE RUBBER DOME.

I take it that one is on the way? cool. I am still debating whether or not to spring for one. Its hard to be resolute after reading these threads though.

never mind, its in your sig. I should read those more often : )
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline pikapika

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 18:44:43 »
i got an hhkb lite, surely it's far lower than the pro, but i was not much impresssed by it.
my lenovo laptop keyboard gives much better typing feelings

Offline bigpook

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 18:47:39 »
the HHKB lite is in no way comparable to the pro version. Except for the key layout of course. But thats about it.
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline pikapika

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 18:59:23 »
a colleague has one, maybe i should have tried it before answering :-)

Offline ch_123

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 19:03:24 »
Quote from: bigpook;144599
I take it that one is on the way? cool. I am still debating whether or not to spring for one. Its hard to be resolute after reading these threads though.

never mind, its in your sig. I should read those more often : )


I was very lucky to get a little used (or so the seller claimed) HHKB Pro with blank keys for $165, including shipping across the pond.

Offline bigpook

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 19:06:11 »
Quote from: ch_123;144605
I was very lucky to get a little used (or so the seller claimed) HHKB Pro with blank keys for $165, including shipping across the pond.


man, was that you on ebay? I topped out at 151.50. I thought I had it too.
it was the version without the USB ports, right?
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline bigpook

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 19:07:48 »
Quote from: pikapika;144604
a colleague has one, maybe i should have tried it before answering :-)


If you try the pro version you will see what I mean.  But then again maybe you shouldn't. You won't want to go back to the lite version. Trust me.
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline ch_123

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 19:08:21 »
Yeah, that was me. Sorry about that =P

Aye, it's the original version which is pretty much identical except for the lack of USB ports. I would have like letters on the keys to make it slightly more obvious what I'm meant to be doing for the first week or so, but for that price, I'll live.

Offline cheater1034

  • Posts: 47
Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 19:09:23 »
Quote from: bigpook;144607
man, was that you on ebay? I topped out at 151.50. I thought I had it too.
it was the version without the USB ports, right?

I was in that auction too :P

I didn't want to go over $150 (i think my max bid), mostly because I can't see spending $250 for a new one anyway, and i didnt want to go very high on a 4-5 year old one.

I'm not so sure i'll like it anyway :\ I may just stick to blue cherries and get a filco
But one thing is certain, when spending $250 for a keyboard you try really hard to look for pros - even if the cons outweigh them

Quote from: leos;144496
Spacesaver? minis cost always more then a usual 104/105 layout keyboard
Not true, they cost less to make in every situation (less keys and less switches and less plastic = cheaper), and the filco tenkeyless are cheaper (unless you get a full size one without nkro, with nkro full size is more expensive)

Model m space saver's are so expensive because of how rare they are :\
« Last Edit: Tue, 22 December 2009, 19:15:32 by cheater1034 »
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Current Keyboard: Filco FKBN87M/EB (Brown Cherry)

Offline ch_123

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 19:11:02 »
The seller said that he had only put about 100 hours through the thing. Maybe the first HHKB was subcontracted out to Unicomp for manufacture?

Either way, if what he's saying is true, there shouldn't be any notable wear on the key action itself.
« Last Edit: Wed, 23 December 2009, 04:34:35 by ch_123 »

Offline bigpook

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #34 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 19:14:28 »
I got my first HHKB pro from xsphat, who got it from someone else. So it had a fair amount of use on it, I wouldn't worry about noticeable wear on the key action.
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline ch_123

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #35 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 19:28:19 »
Just as long as I get the Good Oneness with Cup Rubber it's cool with me.

Offline microsoft windows

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 19:29:20 »
I've already got that on a few old keyboards I got for free.
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Offline GenEric35

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #37 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 19:59:37 »
Quote from: patrickgeekhack;144494
I said it in another thread, a click+pronounced tactile point combination is the best combination for typing accurately. This is why I'm fastest and most accurate on my blue Cherries keyboard. I have become very fast on my Topre, but not as accurate as I were on my blue Cherries.

That being said, I was not disappointed like you were. First, I could get my keys to fire half-way all the time, and second, once I discovered the "good feeling of oneness with cup rubber," typing on the Topre became addictive.  And third, I had gradually moved to lighter and lighter switches before I tried the Topre. Moving from a Model M to a HHKB can require a fair amount of time to get used to. Use it for a month and then evaluate it. You may well still don't like it then. After all, we are all different. Some like it, some don't, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I agree with all of that, even that the keys fire half way, the problem is, i can manage to release right after the bump without it registering the key press, it's not something i can do on all keys all the time, but the time it takes me is about 5-6 attempts to find a key that will fail to register if released after the bump, and the ratio is the same on a dell rubber dome, that sells new, for 8$ and the guy always has 2 crates of those new 8$ dell boards, maybe it will get more accurate when the dome get a bit more usage, but cheap dell don't seem to vary much with time. Thanks for sharing, it's true almost on many of my keyboards i had these moments where the board sudenly felt different(great), probably it was just me adapting to it.
« Last Edit: Wed, 23 December 2009, 00:07:02 by GenEric35 »
:target: HHKB Pro 2  
IBM Model M 1390131
Unicomp Customizer

Offline GenEric35

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #38 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 20:14:31 »
Quote from: leos;144496
This is your opinion. I think the same about Ibm Model M




Spacesaver? minis cost always more then a usual 104/105 layout keyboard



what did you expect? minimalist is the right word.



Maybe take a faulty HHKB?
and i assume you have spent too much work time on a buckling spring keyboard. Work first with the HHKB for a week and make a new review.





here you lie





Yes it is.




Just i say your opinion. Take time and you see lot of positive aspects like,
lighter keystroke, farting!!, if you press more then one keys the feeling is heavier, topre sound, spacesaver and a layout that work.

model M in good to great condition are barely half the price of a Filco, not sure which IBM and which other mechanicals you are comparing to, as far as my M being as quiet as my HHKB Pro2, have you ever greased a M with syntectic grease even slightly? springs on assembly chains are usualy greased. My 131 is probably very light touch to start with, I'm surprised noone has mentionned how quiet it can be once the mini-gong, ping, and any spring rattle is removed from the equation, that leaves only very quiet click, and a muffled top out, i have it sitting on my lap now and the hhkb pro2 spacebar sound buried it I udnerstand you could think i'm exaggerating, but lying? nope. Maybe it depends on the type of grease used, it's so effecient in damping it almost like a magic trick, then again, I remember seeing assembly chains and all springs were greased, why it went unnoticed to apply the same logic to keyboards, they keys are designed to be removed and put back in easily, but maybe greasing was not part of design and maybe they didn't expect rubber domes to come out and be quieter then a mini-gong, ping, or sspring rattle. I did put alot of time on my model M, but my hhkb is on warranty and i'm not oppening it without a reason.
« Last Edit: Tue, 22 December 2009, 23:53:44 by GenEric35 »
:target: HHKB Pro 2  
IBM Model M 1390131
Unicomp Customizer

Offline GenEric35

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #39 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 20:28:44 »
Quote from: microsoft windows;144573
Do you have an old Quietkey (One of the originals)? They are the best rubber domes I have ever used. Each key has a slider and has extremely smooth action, and when you press a key down hard, it bottoms out and just stops (I'm sure you guys have seen many rubber dome keyboards where they feel "creaky" after you bottom out on them and press more). In addition, there's a spring-loaded space bar and all large keys have stablizers. I can press any key in any corner of the keycap and it'll move down nice and smoothly. In addition, each key requires very little pressure compared to an IBM or an ALPS. Next time you see an old Quietkey in your workplace's trash, take a look at it and see if it's a good one (Later models feel terrible).

I haven't felt a Topre but this Quietkey feels just how you guys described a Topre except it is about $300 cheaper and isn't capacitive. And it's ugly and yellowed too.

Hi, I have a 1995 quiet key, Model M, 71G4644, the first time I typed on it was a calming experience. Although, like other model Ms, If you swipe a hand on all the keys at once, the keycaps rattle, I'm not ready to say it's a good keyboard, but it has it's place right next to any other of my keyboard even the more expensive ones, if i had to use a keyboard as a shield the 131 would be the best, but i would shield it before it shielding me, my abs m1 seems solid but too small, id probably use the 71G4644 because the customizer the customizer's case shatters too easily, the customizer has great internals but would diserve a better case, and maybe a few other quality upgrades(a great quality cable, two piece keycap, and slightly sturdier backplate)
« Last Edit: Wed, 23 December 2009, 00:20:13 by GenEric35 »
:target: HHKB Pro 2  
IBM Model M 1390131
Unicomp Customizer

Offline GenEric35

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 20:52:25 »
Quote from: bigpook;144539
while its been awhile since I typed on an HHKB; I do remember it being the smoothest feeling key I have ever used. I don't see the comparison to the el cheapo rubber dome keyboard at all.
IIRC,it didn't take me long to get used to it either, the layout was different but after a bit it made total sense.

I think a big part of it is the reality of paying close to 300 dollars for a keyboard. I don't think it lives up to the price, at all.  For 300 dollars I expect dinner and a reach around.

I have to admit i'm not used at all to the hhkb pro 2 layout yet, i can type, but can barely edit text using arrows yet, and although all my keyboard shortcuts and chords are well placed, and many times, better posistionned on the hhkb pro2, i currently have to think of how to type them first, that will improved fast

for rubber dome comparison i'm refering to this one which someone else noticed as good value, and which i had seen for a long time at 30$ but recently found them for 8$ from pc/depot encan depot, http://www.encandepot.com/ he always has 2 crates of new ones

yea, today i had to spend another 300$ on 40k mile car maintenance, and that's just one of the normally monthly expenses we all have, living is expensive, just surviving is expensive, what hurts is this is a luxury, something that's very likely above the 'level' of life i should have, the only excuse is it's a work tool, then again, there is a very high percentage of people who live a higher life than their situation allows, just living it I guess,

the price of the hhkb is an issue, I think they should cut it by half(it does start off with half the switches, this has to impact cost of making it), how long has this board been out, the engineering on it is noticeable but it doesn't look like something that would take more than 15 years to pay off, especially they recently announce i can't remember how many millions of hhkb sold
« Last Edit: Wed, 23 December 2009, 00:24:23 by GenEric35 »
:target: HHKB Pro 2  
IBM Model M 1390131
Unicomp Customizer

Offline AndrewZorn

  • Posts: 1086
Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #41 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 20:55:15 »
unfortunately it comes down to "we wont sell 5x as many if we cut the profit down by 5x"

Offline GenEric35

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #42 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 21:02:12 »
Quote from: leos;144547
you can take a model m for 0$ here..
Show Image

and here ...http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822148,00.html but you do not find a single HHKB. Now we know also why the HHKB is so expensive.

and that's why i'm posting this today, the HHKB Pro 2 is rare and it's all it has going for it
« Last Edit: Wed, 23 December 2009, 00:25:28 by GenEric35 »
:target: HHKB Pro 2  
IBM Model M 1390131
Unicomp Customizer

Offline GenEric35

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #43 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 21:05:39 »
Quote from: AndrewZorn;144626
unfortunately it comes down to "we wont sell 5x as many if we cut the profit down by 5x"

fair, but how about 2 for 2?
after 10+ years, i'd think R&D was paid long time ago, they probably pay more for the switches because it's the only thing they OEM on the board, and with 43-44 keys less per board, that's enough keys to make 3 more keyboards each time they sell 4. Add a brand name that's already investited in it and could distribute it as one of their products, Fujitsu right? there is a good share of profit in making one of those, cut the profit by half and remove middleman or two, the price might attract twice more people, and a distributor like fujitsu would provide much credibility and visibility, double would sell, not considering the 'carry factor' not sure how to translate this one but basicly, more people having it is more people seeing it, i'm not trying to convince people to invest in it, but saying the people currently making this keyboard are ****ers
« Last Edit: Tue, 22 December 2009, 21:26:31 by GenEric35 »
:target: HHKB Pro 2  
IBM Model M 1390131
Unicomp Customizer

Offline rdjack21

  • Posts: 896
Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #44 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 21:26:45 »
Quote from: GenEric35;144621
I agree with all of that, even that the keys fire half way, the problem is, i can manage to release right after the bump without it releasing the key, it's not something i can do on all keys all the time, but the time it takes me is about 5-6 attempts to find a key that will fail to register if released after the bump, and the ratio is the same on a dell rubber dome, that sells new, for 8$ and the guy always has 2 crates of those new 8$ dell boards, maybe it will get more accurate when the dome get a bit more usage, but cheap dell don't seem to vary much with time. Thanks for sharing, it's true almost on many of my keyboards i had these moments where the board sudenly felt different, probably it was just me adapting to it.


It is not so much the domes that need a little break in. It is the springs because the HHKB Pro is a capacitive keyboard the key will not register until the spring creates the correct capacitance for the key to register. I have seen behaviour similar to this on new Topre boards as well. But after a break in period (the amount varies) they no longer have this problem. Also the activation point on all of my Topre boards is slightly higher than the dome collapse point not by much but definitely before dome collapse. If you stick with it and get to the point where you finally get to the point of "Good feeling of oneness with cup rubber" you will understand why this board cost so much. Also you will really only get that feeling after using the board for a while and then you most likely will only get it when in the grove at first later as your fingers really adjust to it you can get it allot more. But be warned to get there you really should only type on the Topre until your fingers adjust. Later you can switch between boards and your fingers will remember what to do after a short readjustment (for me a couple of hours).

When I moved off my Model M to my 87U it took me about a month to fully adjust to the Topre switch and during that time I did not type on the Model M at all. Today I still like my Model M but I would not want to type on it all day any more. Once I adjusted it took another week or so before I had the "Good feeling of oneness with cup rubber" and ever since that happened my Topre boards have been my goto boards ever since.
Keyboards
Topre Capacitive: Realforce 87U, Realforce 86U, HHKB Pro 2, Topre MD01B0, Topre HE0100, Sun Short Type, OEM NEO CS (x2), NISSHO Electronics KB106DE
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M Space Saver (1291472), Unicomp Customizer x 2
Cherry Brown: Filco FKBN87M/EB, Compaq MX11800
Black Alps: ABS M1
Not so great boards Rare Spring over dome OKI, Sun rack keyboard

Trackballs - Trackman Wheel (3), Trackman marble (2)
Keyboards I still want to get - Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 the White version, Realforce 23U number pad in black and maybe white, μTRON ergo board with Topre switches.
Previously owned - [size=0]SiiG MiniTouch (White Alps), Scorpius M10 (Blue Cherry), IBM Model M13[/size]

Offline iMav

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #45 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 21:32:09 »
With typical rubber dome + membrane switch cheap keyboards, you have to jam your fingers to the bottom to register a keystroke.  

If you have some Alps switches, you may notice that you can make them "click" without registering a keystroke (can't do that with Cherry's).

Regardless, in real world typing scenarios, you won't run into an issue (and, as others have said, those springs do need some wearing in).


If you don't like it, post it for sale here.  LOTS of geekhackers (myself included) absolutely love them.

Offline rdjack21

  • Posts: 896
Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #46 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 21:37:40 »
Quote from: GenEric35;144628
fair, but how about 2 for 2?
after 10+ years, i'd think R&D was paid long time ago, they probably pay more for the switches because it's the only thing they OEM on the board, and with 43-44 keys less per board, that's enough keys to make 3 more keyboards each time they sell 4. Add a brand name that's already investited in it and could distribute it as one of their products, Fujitsu right? there is a good share of profit in making one of those, cut the profit by half and remove middleman or two, the price might attract twice more people, and a distributor like fujitsu would provide much credibility and visibility, double would sell, not considering the 'carry factor' not sure how to translate this one but basicly, more people having it is more people seeing it, i'm not trying to convince people to invest in it, but saying the people currently making this keyboard are ****ers


All of the Topre boards are made by Topre in Japan. I really think Topre is the one driving the price on the Topre OEM products not the vendor that is buying them. I've not seen a single Topre based keyboard sell for very much under $200 and even when they are under $200 then they are older products that the end sellers still have in stock that they are trying to get rid of. And I hate to say it but Topre really has no incentive to lower the price because keyboards are not the main money maker for the company and they hold a patent on the switch which means no one else can make something like it.
Keyboards
Topre Capacitive: Realforce 87U, Realforce 86U, HHKB Pro 2, Topre MD01B0, Topre HE0100, Sun Short Type, OEM NEO CS (x2), NISSHO Electronics KB106DE
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M Space Saver (1291472), Unicomp Customizer x 2
Cherry Brown: Filco FKBN87M/EB, Compaq MX11800
Black Alps: ABS M1
Not so great boards Rare Spring over dome OKI, Sun rack keyboard

Trackballs - Trackman Wheel (3), Trackman marble (2)
Keyboards I still want to get - Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 the White version, Realforce 23U number pad in black and maybe white, μTRON ergo board with Topre switches.
Previously owned - [size=0]SiiG MiniTouch (White Alps), Scorpius M10 (Blue Cherry), IBM Model M13[/size]

Offline rdjack21

  • Posts: 896
Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #47 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 21:45:17 »
Quote from: iMav;144634
With typical rubber dome + membrane switch cheap keyboards, you have to jam your fingers to the bottom to register a keystroke.  

If you have some Alps switches, you may notice that you can make them "click" without registering a keystroke (can't do that with Cherry's).

Regardless, in real world typing scenarios, you won't run into an issue (and, as others have said, those springs do need some wearing in).


If you don't like it, post it for sale here.  LOTS of geekhackers (myself included) absolutely love them.


Personally I'm not so sure it is the spring itself or the dome that needs the break in time but that the interaction of the spring and the dome that needs the break in time. I think that at first the spring will bind or rub a little on the inside of the dome which slows the spring collapse down and thus key registration down but once that dome and spring interaction has smoothed out then it just works as it should. I also think that Topre expects that new users of the board will require some adjustment and will not notice this issue because by the time they adjust to the board things have smoothed out. But for those that are already adjusted or those testing things it will be noticed.
Keyboards
Topre Capacitive: Realforce 87U, Realforce 86U, HHKB Pro 2, Topre MD01B0, Topre HE0100, Sun Short Type, OEM NEO CS (x2), NISSHO Electronics KB106DE
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M Space Saver (1291472), Unicomp Customizer x 2
Cherry Brown: Filco FKBN87M/EB, Compaq MX11800
Black Alps: ABS M1
Not so great boards Rare Spring over dome OKI, Sun rack keyboard

Trackballs - Trackman Wheel (3), Trackman marble (2)
Keyboards I still want to get - Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 the White version, Realforce 23U number pad in black and maybe white, μTRON ergo board with Topre switches.
Previously owned - [size=0]SiiG MiniTouch (White Alps), Scorpius M10 (Blue Cherry), IBM Model M13[/size]

Offline AndrewZorn

  • Posts: 1086
Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #48 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 21:59:25 »
Quote from: GenEric35;144628
fair, but how about 2 for 2?
after 10+ years, i'd think R&D was paid long time ago, they probably pay more for the switches because it's the only thing they OEM on the board, and with 43-44 keys less per board, that's enough keys to make 3 more keyboards each time they sell 4. Add a brand name that's already investited in it and could distribute it as one of their products, Fujitsu right? there is a good share of profit in making one of those, cut the profit by half and remove middleman or two, the price might attract twice more people, and a distributor like fujitsu would provide much credibility and visibility, double would sell, not considering the 'carry factor' not sure how to translate this one but basicly, more people having it is more people seeing it, i'm not trying to convince people to invest in it, but saying the people currently making this keyboard are ****ers

im not going to get in to all this.  i feel the same as you... it should not cost that much.  there is no reason.  just like how the 87u costs more than the 103u.  it makes no sense at all.

but you are forgetting that profit is not the same as total cost.

heres an example: if it cost $100, including all costs (marketing, etc) to make a HHKB... cutting profit in half would make it $170 instead of $240.  do you think TWICE as many people would buy it just because it cost $170?  i dont... maybe 25% more.

but yeah, sell it if you dont want it.  think of it economically: if something is worth X to someone else, but you wouldnt pay X for it, it is in your best interest to sell it.  there is a guy on candlepowerforums that said he would buy one in an instant for $150 like mine was, and desperately wants to try one out.  ask me if you would be interested.  depending on the color you got it in, i might even want yours, and sell him mine.

Offline GenEric35

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Just got my hhkb pro2, @250$ the last zero was clearly a typo
« Reply #49 on: Tue, 22 December 2009, 23:32:16 »
Quote from: AndrewZorn;144643
im not going to get in to all this.  i feel the same as you... it should not cost that much.  there is no reason.  just like how the 87u costs more than the 103u.  it makes no sense at all.

but you are forgetting that profit is not the same as total cost.

heres an example: if it cost $100, including all costs (marketing, etc) to make a HHKB... cutting profit in half would make it $170 instead of $240.  do you think TWICE as many people would buy it just because it cost $170?  i dont... maybe 25% more.

but yeah, sell it if you dont want it.  think of it economically: if something is worth X to someone else, but you wouldnt pay X for it, it is in your best interest to sell it.  there is a guy on candlepowerforums that said he would buy one in an instant for $150 like mine was, and desperately wants to try one out.  ask me if you would be interested.  depending on the color you got it in, i might even want yours, and sell him mine.

yea, 170 is certainly an interesting price, selling twice more is optimistic, I wish i could link how many millions they sold already, and i was considering that it seems like getting a quality keyboard is a growing trend and fact that laptops are smaller and affordable that the trend would be to get a compact keyboard, negating the disadvantage of the keyboards that arent ergonomicaly correct like the eepc being too small, and phones that have more and more features found on desktop pc's, i'm not an economist by any means, but compact keyboards might be what poeple want, being that it's been 10+ years those technologies are out, even the model M's were selling for 250$ twenty years ago, with inflation that's would be even more today, and Unicomp now sells the same technology for 5 times lower

btw, my hhkb pro2 is a white blank, it looks just like on the pictures, looks good imo, I might sell it in 4-5 weeks if I don't dig it, but for the price consider I have opened it today, new in box, and a pre-order I had to wait for over a month
« Last Edit: Wed, 23 December 2009, 00:29:24 by GenEric35 »
:target: HHKB Pro 2  
IBM Model M 1390131
Unicomp Customizer