[Hesitating] The White Fox(custom keyboard with MX Clear) or HHKB Pro2?

[AresTheGod]

Hey guys!

Not so long ago I made this topic (: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75168.msg1863781#msg1863781 ) and I finally chose the Ducky Channel 4. Very happy about it and perfect for gaming. But I wanted to try some more exotic keyboard. Was looking for custom keyboard and found a man called "matt3o" and figured out he is pretty famous for doing keyboard and looked at his work an that's how I found the White Fox and I just fall in love with it (The case especially). And there were alot of type of switch. The Cherry MX Clear looks pretty good.
If I take the The White Fox assembled+the shipping cost and the tax the price is equivalent.
So now I'm hesitating between the famous HHKB with the White Fox and I wanted you guys to help me to decide between these two amazing keyboard.
Thanks!

[juahenza]

Hey guys!

Not so long ago I made this topic (: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75168.msg1863781#msg1863781 ) and I finally chose the Ducky Channel 4. Very happy about it and perfect for gaming. But I wanted to try some more exotic keyboard. Was looking for custom keyboard and found a man called "matt3o" and figured out he is pretty famous for doing keyboard and looked at his work an that's how I found the White Fox and I just fall in love with it (The case especially). And there were alot of type of switch. The Cherry MX Clear looks pretty good.
If I take the The White Fox assembled+the shipping cost and the tax the price is equivalent.
So now I'm hesitating between the famous HHKB with the White Fox and I wanted you guys to help me to decide between these two amazing keyboard.
Thanks!

hhkb. you wont regret it 

[xondat]

HHKB. Different but great experience.

[AresTheGod]

Thanks for you advice !
I'm gonna wait for a little bit more answer before I make my choice !

[Tactile]

How important are arrow keys to you? One of the big attractions of the White Fox is that it's a 60%-ish keyboard but has arrow keys on the top layer. It's a 60% keyboard for people who don't like 60% keyboards.

The HHKB (I'm typing on one right now) is just a 60% keyboard with Topre switches. If you want Topre there are other Topre boards out there - you don't need to confine yourself to a 60% layout. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of 60% boards but they're not for everyone.

Your White Fox would be quite distinctive and probably more satisfying for you since you chose the keyboard and components yourself. You can grab a HHKB anytime, the opportunity to get a White Fox doesn't come around often.

Well, whatever you choose, type in good health!

[AresTheGod]

How important are arrow keys to you? One of the big attractions of the White Fox is that it's a 60%-ish keyboard but has arrow keys on the top layer. It's a 60% keyboard for people who don't like 60% keyboards.

The HHKB (I'm typing on one right now) is just a 60% keyboard with Topre switches. If you want Topre there are other Topre boards out there - you don't need to confine yourself to a 60% layout. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of 60% boards but they're not for everyone.

Your White Fox would be quite distinctive and probably more satisfying for you since you chose the keyboard and components yourself. You can grab a HHKB anytime, the opportunity to get a White Fox doesn't come around often.

Well, whatever you choose, type in good health!

Thank you for your answer !
Yeah I know, and it's exactly what I'm searching for. I used to type on my MBP, witch is I think a 60% as the White Fox but still got the arrow keys and it's one of the point that I don't really like on the HHKB but I love the "compact" of the 60%...
About the White Fox, I saw that the drop on Massdrop end in 4 days and as you say, I may not have another chance to get it while I can grab an HHKB anytime I want.
So I have 3 more days to make up my mind !
EDIT : about the Torpe switch, I have seen the Torpe Type Heaven witch is less expensive

[kasakka]

To me the biggest issue with the HHKB is one of its most striking features, namely the lack of bottom row buttons. I even tried the HHKB JP in a store but that went the other way by having too many buttons and a much too small spacebar. So if you can live with either of those then the HHKB might be a good choice, being a Topre board and all.

You can't go wrong with the Whitefox though. If you don't mind assembling it yourself, get the Zealios with it.

[Folio]

I own a Whitefox Aria layout with 67g Zealios switches. I have to say it is the most unique typing experiencing I've had thus far with a mechanical switch. It feels poppy and the case is nice and solid. Very fun to mash on. I had to assemble the board myself since I got the Zealios and was disappointed to find out that Zealios switches, although great quality, has chatter problems but not enough to really bother me.

I've always wanted an HHKB however. And I might just get one soon. I do miss the thock of Topre switches and I've heard the HHKB is the best typing experience on Topres to date. If in doubt, just get both. The whitefox now, and the HHKB later.

[AresTheGod]

To me the biggest issue with the HHKB is one of its most striking features, namely the lack of bottom row buttons. I even tried the HHKB JP in a store but that went the other way by having too many buttons and a much too small spacebar. So if you can live with either of those then the HHKB might be a good choice, being a Topre board and all.

You can't go wrong with the Whitefox though. If you don't mind assembling it yourself, get the Zealios with it.

The thing is, I can't even try it since I don't think in France ther'e any store that provide HHBK...

By the way, what are these  Zealios switch never heard of them?
It seems that there are close to MX Clear.

I own a Whitefox Aria layout with 67g Zealios switches. I have to say it is the most unique typing experiencing I've had thus far with a mechanical switch. It feels poppy and the case is nice and solid. Very fun to mash on. I had to assemble the board myself since I got the Zealios and was disappointed to find out that Zealios switches, although great quality, has chatter problems but not enough to really bother me.

I've always wanted an HHKB however. And I might just get one soon. I do miss the thock of Topre switches and I've heard the HHKB is the best typing experience on Topres to date. If in doubt, just get both. The whitefox now, and the HHKB later.

I might do that ^^

[Folio]

By the way, what are these  Zealios switch never heard of them?
It seems that there are close to MX Clear.

Zealios switches are basically an MX Clear yea, but custom made with gateron housing and I *think* lubed stem and all that. I don't know much about it. I just liked the way it sounded but it feels great. You can read more about it here https://zealpc.net/products/zealio

I found out the hard way that if you solder them on too hot, then the leaf contacts on the inside can end up bending out of alignment or something therefore causing key chatter. There's a simple way to fix them, but it doesn't bother me enough to have to open up the problem switches and do it.

[AresTheGod]

The 65g seems to be nicer than the Clear but ewww soldering.
I'm to scared to burn everything 
Probably would have taken them if there were an assembly version...

[Folio]

The 65g seems to be nicer than the Clear but ewww soldering.
I'm to scared to burn everything 
Probably would have taken them if there were an assembly version...

Same here, but I went for it anyways cuz I like new switches esp custom made ones by GH enthusiasts. The soldering part wasn't too bad actually and it was my first time! Anyways, get the clears assembled. It's still a great board.

[aptivaboy]

I sooo want the White Fox Aria, but the price put it outside of my reach. I finally ordered a Mattias Mini Quiet Pro for the form factor, and the chance to try out an Alps keyboard.

But...

Were price no object, I would go for the White Fox. I think a lot of people forget how useful the arrow keys are, especially if you're doing a ton of typing. Whatever keyboard I get must have discrete page up, page down, and enter keys. If you do  decide to go White Fox, I will be envious. 

[AresTheGod]

The 65g seems to be nicer than the Clear but ewww soldering.
I'm to scared to burn everything 
Probably would have taken them if there were an assembly version...

Same here, but I went for it anyways cuz I like new switches esp custom made ones by GH enthusiasts. The soldering part wasn't too bad actually and it was my first time! Anyways, get the clears assembled. It's still a great board.

Yeah they seems really special and they are made by this community. But if I fail something would feel really bad.

I sooo want the White Fox Aria, but the price put it outside of my reach. I finally ordered a Mattias Mini Quiet Pro for the form factor, and the chance to try out an Alps keyboard.

But...

Were price no object, I would go for the White Fox. I think a lot of people forget how useful the arrow keys are, especially if you're doing a ton of typing. Whatever keyboard I get must have discrete page up, page down, and enter keys. If you do  decide to go White Fox, I will be envious. 

It looks like a nice keyboard too!
Yeah I think it's pretty important too. About typing, got one question, can I do something like alt+a = à ? Since I type mostly in French, I would need these key...
At the moment there' s a big chance that I decide to go for it 

[Data]

HHKB is massively overrated.  Get the Whitefox, build it yourself, and bask in the glory of a fully-customized keyboarding experience.

[AresTheGod]

Mh, it's what I was afraid of. Heard so much good of it than I tought that I would be disappointed if it was as good as people said...
Must think a bit more about the DIY

[kasakka]

Mh, it's what I was afraid of. Heard so much good of it than I tought that I would be disappointed if it was as good as people said...
Must think a bit more about the DIY

It's not difficult to assemble a keyboard. You just need to be careful not to heat up anything too much or accidentally burn anything on the board. The process is pretty simple:

• Test that every switch on the PCB works using a multimeter (or some metal things you can connect together to toggle the switch contacts) while the kb is hooked to the PC and a keytester software is open. I use Aquakeytest
• Put switches on plate
• Put switch connectors through PCB contact holes
• Solder in switches
• Test that everything works
• Optionally solder in LEDs
• Assemble into case
• Program the keyboard layers as you like them

[Waateva]

I'll take care of this since demik is apparently slacking.

HHKB.

[AresTheGod]

Mh, it's what I was afraid of. Heard so much good of it than I tought that I would be disappointed if it was as good as people said...
Must think a bit more about the DIY

It's not difficult to assemble a keyboard. You just need to be careful not to heat up anything too much or accidentally burn anything on the board. The process is pretty simple:

• Test that every switch on the PCB works using a multimeter (or some metal things you can connect together to toggle the switch contacts) while the kb is hooked to the PC and a keytester software is open. I use Aquakeytest
• Put switches on plate
• Put switch connectors through PCB contact holes
• Solder in switches
• Test that everything works
• Optionally solder in LEDs
• Assemble into case
• Program the keyboard layers as you like them

Yeah I know, saw the little guide of Matt3o ( http://matt3o.com/how-to-build-your-whitefox/ ). Already done soldering, and my problem is that I often do those little thing (I think you call it "soldering blob"? ).
May try to train on soldering if I wanna do it.

I'll take care of this since demik is apparently slacking.

HHKB.

I think i'll buy The White Fox now (since it's limited), and I'll buy the HHKB later

[redbanshee]

I ordered a pre-assembeled one (no idea why because I usually assemble them myself), it was pretty poorly assembled. The switches were not properly seated in the plate before they soldered it in, so there were a bunch of switches that were different heights. Also, it wasnt pre-configured to the layout I ordered so I had to re-program it to the proper layout. Also the engraving was missing on the back.


Get the HHKB, just be aware HHKB layout is not normal layout at all, takes some getting used to.

[AresTheGod]

I ordered a pre-assembeled one (no idea why because I usually assemble them myself), it was pretty poorly assembled. The switches were not properly seated in the plate before they soldered it in, so there were a bunch of switches that were different heights. Also, it wasnt pre-configured to the layout I ordered so I had to re-program it to the proper layout. Also the engraving was missing on the back.


Get the HHKB, just be aware HHKB layout is not normal layout at all, takes some getting used to.

Oh, that's pretty bad.
So I guess I will get the kit. I'll need to train a bit then. About the layout, I think he prevented that you'll need to flash "» Does it come pre-flashed?
Yes, the keyboard comes with a bootloader and with a standard layout pre-flashed but it is very likely that you’ll need to flash a new firmware when you get it. To simplify the production process we are flashing one firmware for all 6 available layouts, so it is inevitable that some of them will require some optimization."
I think that I won't take the HHKB now, since it's available anytime

[chuckdee]

Just as a dissenter, I've had the HHKB.  I didn't like it.

[redbanshee]

I ordered a pre-assembeled one (no idea why because I usually assemble them myself), it was pretty poorly assembled. The switches were not properly seated in the plate before they soldered it in, so there were a bunch of switches that were different heights. Also, it wasnt pre-configured to the layout I ordered so I had to re-program it to the proper layout. Also the engraving was missing on the back.


Get the HHKB, just be aware HHKB layout is not normal layout at all, takes some getting used to.

Oh, that's pretty bad.
So I guess I will get the kit. I'll need to train a bit then. About the layout, I think he prevented that you'll need to flash "» Does it come pre-flashed?
Yes, the keyboard comes with a bootloader and with a standard layout pre-flashed but it is very likely that you’ll need to flash a new firmware when you get it. To simplify the production process we are flashing one firmware for all 6 available layouts, so it is inevitable that some of them will require some optimization."
I think that I won't take the HHKB now, since it's available anytime

That is true about his saying you would have to program it but IMO with $205 pre assembled keyboard, they could at least program it.


Also just looked up the new vs the old price and they raised the exact same one that I got to $230 ..... $25 dollar difference for **** assembly with an unprogrammed board.  smh...

[AresTheGod]

Just as a dissenter, I've had the HHKB.  I didn't like it.

I think it doesn't fit for everybody as said previously. But what didn't you like? The feel of Torpe Switch? Or the layout?

I ordered a pre-assembeled one (no idea why because I usually assemble them myself), it was pretty poorly assembled. The switches were not properly seated in the plate before they soldered it in, so there were a bunch of switches that were different heights. Also, it wasnt pre-configured to the layout I ordered so I had to re-program it to the proper layout. Also the engraving was missing on the back.


Get the HHKB, just be aware HHKB layout is not normal layout at all, takes some getting used to.

Oh, that's pretty bad.
So I guess I will get the kit. I'll need to train a bit then. About the layout, I think he prevented that you'll need to flash "» Does it come pre-flashed?
Yes, the keyboard comes with a bootloader and with a standard layout pre-flashed but it is very likely that you’ll need to flash a new firmware when you get it. To simplify the production process we are flashing one firmware for all 6 available layouts, so it is inevitable that some of them will require some optimization."
I think that I won't take the HHKB now, since it's available anytime

That is true about his saying you would have to program it but IMO with $205 pre assembled keyboard, they could at least program it.


Also just looked up the new vs the old price and they raised the exact same one that I got to $230 ..... $25 dollar difference for **** assembly with an unprogrammed board.  smh...

I must agree with you on that point. It's a little detail but think these kind of thing are important.
About the assembly, did you contact them?

[chuckdee]

Just as a dissenter, I've had the HHKB.  I didn't like it.

I think it doesn't fit for everybody as said previously. But what didn't you like? The feel of Torpe Switch? Or the layout?

Many here think that Topre is a religion, and all must submit.   

I didn't like the feel of it, that's the reason I haven't tried any of the others.  If it was just the layout, I could find something else... but I do like the smaller, more compact keyboards.  I just didn't like the feel of the switches.

[AresTheGod]

Oh ok, thanks for sharing! I think before buying a Topre kb I should test it (luckily I got a HW shop near me, should be able to find a Topre kb)
And yeah it seems that it's sect !

[chuckdee]

Now I'm having the same problem as you.  Figured I'd jump on the drop when I got paid... but now I'm waffling between this and the clueboard.

[AresTheGod]

I think you should go on The White Fox. Looked a bit at the Clueboard and it seems that it's not a full aluminium case like The White Fox, and it depends of your preference, but on the Clueboard we can't see the switch (Something that I personally like) but there is more option. (Might not be an objective opinion )
By the way just ordered 

[chuckdee]

Well, looking at the turnaround, the ability to actually converse with skullydazed and the business I've already done with him, and the weight of the board (the reason I'm looking at acrylic since I take it back and forth to work), And the pretty standard keys, that's the reason I'm looking at the clueboard.  And I like purple- the lack of anodizing options on the case is a definite downside for me.

[AresTheGod]

Then I think the choise is up to you . But you must make your choice fast because the GB is gonna end soon

[rowdy]

I'll take care of this since demik is apparently slacking.

HHKB.

He has been seduced by the MX side and turned away from the light.

[rowdy]

OP: just get both

[AresTheGod]

It's what I'll probably do