Author Topic: [NOOB ALERT] Building my first TKL  (Read 4844 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rudeboy

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13
  • Location: New York
[NOOB ALERT] Building my first TKL
« on: Tue, 29 May 2018, 04:51:45 »
Longtime lurker, first time poster and I am looking for some help on my first build.

I really like the look of the Filco TKL boards but want to build my own as they do not offer everything that I want straight out of the box. First off, I am looking to have my build in the case shown below and want everything to fit with minimal modification if possible. I would like to build a fully programmable keyboard with a PCB that supports backlit keyswitches. I am familiar with the Phantom series of PCBs but they do not support LEDs.

I pretty much have everything else figured out in terms of cabling, switches (combination of cherry mx reds for typing keys, cherry mx browns for various modifiers, and cherry mx blues for ESC + F1 - F12), keycaps etc. All except for connection controller, or whatever it is referred to as. Basically that part on the PCB that connects your keyboard to a USB cable, not the end that goes into your PC. Sorry still a noob lol. From what I have seen, that varies from PCB to PCB as some have them installed and others you need to buy separately. Similar to that, I also do not know if I will need resistors or diodes as some come installed with them already.

Any help would be appreciated, sorry if it seems like I am rambling on. Thanks in advance for the help, as I know someone will be able to point me in the right direction.

Edit: Added specific key switches



« Last Edit: Tue, 29 May 2018, 05:00:27 by rudeboy »

Offline ag36

  • Posts: 179
  • Location: London, UK
Model M*5, SSK*4, M13 black*1, Model F XT*1, AT*1 F107*1, Unicomp*1, 3278 *1, Leopold FC750R*2, 980M*2 FC980C*1 Filco majestouch 2 TKL*1, Cooler Master MasterKeys S PBT*1, Uniqey Q100*2, Ducky pocket*1, KBD75*2, KBD19X*2, HHKB pro 2*1, Type-S*1 Topre Realforce RGB*1, 108 all 30g*1, numpad*1, 87U*1 Dell AT101W*2, Alps64*2, V80 matias quiet click*2, Quiet liner *1, WYSE ASCII *1

Offline rudeboy

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13
  • Location: New York
Re: [NOOB ALERT] Building my first TKL
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 29 May 2018, 06:03:59 »
Interesting but I am confused as to why there would be 3 LED lights on a TKL when you only need 2 for scroll lock and caps. What do you think about this PCB? I'm not to sure about what I would need aside from the PCB (ex: resistors, diodes, controller etc.) to make it work, can you check it out and let me know?

https://www.lfkeyboards.com/lfk-tkl.html

Offline suicidal_orange

  • * Global Moderator
  • Posts: 4771
  • Location: England
Re: [NOOB ALERT] Building my first TKL
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 29 May 2018, 06:19:49 »
PCB looks good - covers just about every layout in alps or MX and uses the common QMK firmware.  As for LEDs you can use them for anything, I have a board that's got Colemack on a layer so an indicator that says that layer is active is handy when someone says my board is broken.  Also certain programs expect you to use a number pad and don't like the standard numbers, so num lock can be used to trigger the number row to output those keycodes in firmware.

If you chose 'bare PCB' you'll need to solder a controller chip (not easy) so pay the $45 for MCU/diodes and the only thing you'll need to solder is the switches.
120/100g linear Zealio R1  
GMK Hyperfuse
'Split everything' perfection  
MX Clear
SA Hack'd by Geeks     
EasyAVR mod

Offline rudeboy

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13
  • Location: New York
Re: [NOOB ALERT] Building my first TKL
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 29 May 2018, 06:40:39 »
Sounds good. Can you give me a quick explanation as to what QMK firmware is? And is the controller chip essentially the connection between the USB and the PCB? I'm really looking into unbinding my Windows key into a function key so I can do combos like FN+F1 for mute audio etc.

Offline suicidal_orange

  • * Global Moderator
  • Posts: 4771
  • Location: England
Re: [NOOB ALERT] Building my first TKL
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 29 May 2018, 07:01:48 »
Basically a keyboard is just a controller chip with lots of pins connected to switches and some other pins connected to the USB port.  Firmware is the software that runs on the controller chip to say what code you want sent when a key is pressed, so it's the firmware you need to tell that your windows key is an FN.

QMK is known for being best with LEDs including RGB, probably best you have a read on the QMK website :)
120/100g linear Zealio R1  
GMK Hyperfuse
'Split everything' perfection  
MX Clear
SA Hack'd by Geeks     
EasyAVR mod

Offline rudeboy

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13
  • Location: New York
Re: [NOOB ALERT] Building my first TKL
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 30 May 2018, 01:28:37 »
Ok thanks, I am aware of what firmware is just didn't know what the "QMK" firmware was but I will check out the site. My next question is, if you take a look at the PCB, it does not have a USB connection on it. In some builds, I have seen people add an extra PCB that fits within designated sockets on the keyboards PCB and is soldered in for USB cable connection. Will I need one of those USB controllers for the PCB and what are some brands that I can buy. Is there a regular size or connection I need to know of?

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4567
Re: [NOOB ALERT] Building my first TKL
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 30 May 2018, 04:09:57 »
You are going to run into a few issues with your build.

An explanation first.
On stock Filco boards, the controller. as Suicidal Orange said actually controls everything, on a Filco that is removable, and you can get one that is programmable. That is what is in mine (H.I.D. Liberator). Or you can go with the FTL board which has it built in, but is also programmable.  If you want the LFK board, unless you are familiar with soldering smd parts you will want to get all diodes and such soldered, with backlights, pick your usb connector, (I recommend micro or type C, mini is not designed for abuse), and Filco mounting holes. Underglow will not show with your case and you do not need the speaker, get it if you want though.

Now the first problem... Your plate
Filcos use a special switch plate witch is bent on the sides, it is not flat like most plates or universal plates. Those sides make it super stiff (and contribute to Filco Ping), but are also what mounts to the case. Especially, the aftermarket aluminum ones. It makes for a SUPER stuff setup, one of the stiffest yo can get, but it requires those sides. I know of no one offering a bent side plate with removable switch tops.

So you have a few options here.
Buy a used Filco and use the plate, in which case, you may want to just use the PCB and buy and aftermarket controller. You end up with almost the same end result. Why not just buy a plate? Well, the Filco plate is needed to mount to the aluminum cases, so lots of people buy them just to tear the plates out. This led to a glut of used Filcos when the Phantoms first came out, people bought them up like crazy, and still often buy them and the case and throw out the guts, which are actually REALLY good. Filco has one of the best PCB's you can get, so don't be in a rush to ditch it. Some Cooler Master and Rosewill are also interchangeable.

If however you want to have openable switch tops, you need a universal plate, and those are almost always flat and that means you need an adapter. One member made some out of pencils if I remember right, I used to make them on my 3d printer but I haven't in a while.  I can make you some for a small fee or if you have a 3d printer I can send you the files or you can try making them out of wood or whatever, but you will need to figure something out if you use something other than a stock plate. I still use the first ones I made, so they do last.

Here is my old thread with info about the adapters and installing a universal plate:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46827.0
Contrary to how they look in photos these are actually L shaped, not just a rectangle, though you could probably get away with doing just that.

Second issue... And this is a BIG one.
Beware, these pcb may not even fit your case. This was something Phantom owners found out the hard way,  because of the Phantoms placement of the controller, it hit the bottom of the case. Filco puts their controllers on top of the PCB just above the arrow keys, while most put them underneath. The stock case had lots of clearance, but the aluminum ones are EXTREMELY tight, guys with Phantoms had to cut recesses or even a hole to allow for room to clear, one I believe even added jumper wires and moved the controller. You may want to ask LFK where the controller is, in back on the bottom you may be okay, but if it is in the front or middle on the bottom it will hit the bottom of your case. Remember, they are expecting a factory case, which had plenty of room, not an aftermarket one.

Good luck, and don't give up it will be nice once you pick a path.
If you want it done quick, buy a used Filco and use it for parts, you can upgrade it later, otherwise it may take a while.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline rudeboy

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13
  • Location: New York
Re: [NOOB ALERT] Building my first TKL
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 30 May 2018, 22:09:50 »
Thank you for taking the time to explain everything that you did. Thing is with Filco PCB I can not get keyswitch LED's ASFAIK and with my PCB I am not to worried about underglow LED's as I am not trying to do anything with that. I am planning on getting the MCU/Diodes installed so all I have to do is solder in switches and LED's. Here is the plate I was looking at, they claim to be able to fit filco TKL cases nicely. The plate is also universal which claims to support interchangeable switch tops, but I do not know if I will be doing to much of that but it is good to have.

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2551

As far as the MCU placement goes (I think this is the USB connection that is soldered to the PCB?) I can ask them as I am not sure where it is located. I have seen some Filcos opened up and have seen it placed above the arrow keys, is this the ideal place where I would want my MCU to be installed for most compatibility with Filco TKL style cases?

Also, I am not sure how busy you are but I will most likely be building my keyboard within the next 2 months. Do you mind if I could email you my parts list and get some 1 on 1 help with my build as far as compatibility goes. I'd take your cautions and do the research (ex. asking LFK about the MCU), just tell me some basic things to look out for as the part list may change. Nothing too serious, just some basic questions, I am not in any rush so you could take your time with your responses. Just don't want to mess this up and if someone could walk me through I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4567
Re: [NOOB ALERT] Building my first TKL
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 31 May 2018, 00:17:32 »
Most parts will simply go together, the case and plate are just an issue when used together and the case and pcb is problematic due to clearance for a controller.

Above the arrow keys is where that case expects the controller to be, it's not a matter of ideal placement so much as a fitment issue, it simply may not fit if it is somewhere else. The front of the Vortex case (many of these I suspect are from the same manufacturer) are extremely shallow in front, so close that long pins can contact it and ground out and no chance of the controller fitting on bottom at the front. This case looks to have extra clearance, probably for the phantom's controller, but that is for the Phantom, we don't know where the one you want is.


That plate is a "universal" plate and is flat, it will not fit the case you have, you need either the adapters or a bent stock style plate.
Ignoring the left side of the picture,  note how the right side has the traditional Filco bend. The top and bottom both have this bend and it sits along a lip inside your case, without that lip, your plate will sit about 1/4in too low and the top will not clamp it down.
(Pic by GH user Delatroy)
196746-0


You see here on mine, how I used the plastic spacers to replace that lip (it's upside down in this pic, so the pcb is on top). Note the lack of  bends in the plate, which are replaced by plastic.


Again, you can use the plate you want, but you need the adapters or a stock plate.

Here you can see how it sits down into the case (I have a similar plate in stainless). The assembly sits on the plastic adapters, leaving the plate to stick up just a teeny bit, allowing the top cover to clamp compress it all into place.



P.S.  You can message me for questions.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline rudeboy

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13
  • Location: New York
Re: [NOOB ALERT] Building my first TKL
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 31 May 2018, 01:14:37 »
Looks good, I checked your post and see that you make those yourself. I'll look into buying a Filco for the plate but I'm not sure if I want to spend 100+ on a used keyboard just for the plate. If your 3D printed solution works then I may look at that. Can you quickly explain to me the difference between ANSI 150 and ANSI 125 or any other 'formats' there may be? Do the case, PCB and plate all have to be the same 'ANSI #' or format to be compatible ?

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4567
Re: [NOOB ALERT] Building my first TKL
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 31 May 2018, 05:50:22 »
A Costar based  Cooler Master TKL (and possibly Rosewill) will also have that plate inside as well as the stabs you need, but must be Costar based.
Don't forget stabilizers, which matter more than you think.

ANSI and ISO are different layouts, the most obvious difference is the enter key size and shape. 1.25 or 125 refers to the bottom row keys. 
If not specified, the caps, plate and pcb need to match. Universal plates tend to work for all layouts, hence the "universal".
http://blog.maxkeyboard.com/dwkb/keycap-compatibility-size-chart/
Cases don't matter on layout, unless there is a block off plate for the Winkey.


You can build a cheap keyboard but not one of the caliber you are building and in the time frame you want it done in. Good, fast or cheap, pick two.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline rudeboy

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13
  • Location: New York
Re: [NOOB ALERT] Building my first TKL
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 31 May 2018, 11:01:42 »
Ok so I'm waiting for LFKeyboards to get back to me on some questions I asked about the pcb like if it is ANSI 150 or whatever layout it may be. I didnt know keyscaps would be effected by the format as well. I don't really have a budget to be honest, I just want to build something that will fit my needs. And the plate I am looking at this plate https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2551 which lesliann says may need some adapters for my case, although it claims to fit Filco TKL cases nicely but I am still not to sure about the fitment differences for the aftermarket aluminum ones.

Offline _GMK_

  • not affiliated with GMK
  • Posts: 197
Re: [NOOB ALERT] Building my first TKL
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 20 January 2019, 04:22:43 »
what did you choose?

Offline rudeboy

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13
  • Location: New York
Re: [NOOB ALERT] Building my first TKL
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 26 January 2019, 10:40:29 »
I didnt :( Had some other expenses and have to pay off some things but I should be ready to build by June/July. For now it's either my chattering 6Gv2 or this 2nd hand membrane g110 I got from a friend. But after looking into building again, I think I'm going to go with a 60% build instead.