Author Topic: Massdrop x Geekhack  (Read 32285 times)

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Online brianjking

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #150 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 18:33:20 »
I don't like this. I don't like this at all.
I am absolutely not a fan of Massdrop.

I nearly almost posted something in anger that would surely have got me banned. That's how strongly I feel about this.

Lol, well "Massdrop" is reporting 252 days without incident, idk what other vendors could do that even :)


lol, in fairness I think whoever is the administer of the massdrama site just stopped updating it.
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Online Vigrith

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #151 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 18:34:51 »
it's always humorous how passionate people get over things based on currently unrealized fears

I just think it's a little awkward to watch. He's already gotten them good, pesky corporate Massdroppers won't have access to the avatar he removed nor to his most recent posts because he's taking the appropriate precautionary principles of erasing them. One would think that'd be enough, plus I don't think I'm fit to comment further as the mentality toward this kind of thing is entirely different where I come from, maybe we should all be nuking our accounts for fear that they fall into the wrong hands of the people that already have access to our information through MD either way. Or maybe I'm way off, I don't know what kind of stand people are even attempting to make with asking to be deleted, I might be missing something paramount.

Plus, isn't there already a thread to talk about that kinda thing? I think bickering about it here is uncalled for.

Online Puddsy

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #152 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 18:41:00 »
hey mods, no one would look down on you if you want to step down.

it's always humorous how passionate people get over things based on currently unrealized fears

my favorite part of all this news tbh
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Offline InvidiousIgnoramus

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #153 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 18:59:42 »
Well, I guess I don't have to worry about my info being sold to big chyna at least.  :rolleyes:
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Offline heyitsqi

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #154 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 19:09:50 »
I would just like MD to work on getting the forums in a usable state on mobile that doesn't involve Tapatalk. Thanks.

Offline dimo

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Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #155 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 19:10:42 »
I would just like MD to work on getting the forums in a usable state on mobile that doesn't involve Tapatalk. Thanks.

what’s wrong with tapatalk?
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Online Puddsy

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #156 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 19:12:43 »
Well, I guess I don't have to worry about my info being sold to big chyna at least.  :rolleyes:

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Offline futurecrime

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #157 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 19:17:42 »
Will your avatar makes me uneasy and you look like the typical CEO that increases my holiday bonus but slashes my health insurance.

This is my favourite so far, followed by Norbauer's speech which almost made me stand on my desk and salute.

Offline MMKB

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #158 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 19:22:44 »
Last I heard was Microsoft buying Github
   

Offline gutsack

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #159 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 19:28:58 »
Last I heard was Microsoft buying Github

Jesus all the news is breaking today

Offline Wetherbee

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #160 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 19:52:25 »
I joined geekhack for the artisan community, the makers, and the designers, not to be Massdrop's captive audience so they can push their corporate agenda.

Massdrop isn't ponying up cash to buy this community because they have your interests at heart. They aren't interested in how you make refinements to Korean customs or how best to mix the colors for your artisanal resin. They are doing it because it will put money into their pockets. There is nothing wrong with corporate greed but I personally don't see Massdrop providing any value to the community. The goal of a distributor is to control the market and push out competitors and this is exactly what they are doing. This is exactly what AB Inbev does to craft breweries in their attempts to control distribution and the end result is not good for the consumer. Massdrop uses their market share to drive the profits of groupbuys towards their own pockets, resulting in increased prices for you.

Go ahead and take a "wait and see" approach, but I think folks are just in shock and denial. Massdrop will sit on the investment for a while until it becomes the new normal and then they will slowly start making subtle changes to further their own interests and justify the purchase. Legally they own everything you post.

I would rather geekhack died and the community move to other platforms rather than give it to these corporate interests. Massdrop has proven over time that they rarely, if ever, care about the interests of our community. Read up on the history of this platform and you will be terrified.
« Last Edit: Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:03:28 by Wetherbee »

Offline manitoid

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #161 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 19:59:54 »
Last I heard was Microsoft buying Github

Jesus all the news is breaking today

You're like a month late on the github news bub

Online jb1830

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #162 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:02:40 »
I just got back from KeyCon...

I share many of the same sentiments.
               
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Offline gutsack

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #163 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:03:23 »
Last I heard was Microsoft buying Github

Jesus all the news is breaking today

You're like a month late on the github news bub

Sarcasm is dead, can Massdrop buy that and save it too?

Offline Rob27shred

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #164 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:04:14 »
I just got back from KeyCon where I enjoyed some of the most excellent fellowship and hard-core geekery I've ever had the pleasure to enjoy in my life, and I was actually just musing to myself how fortunate I felt to have been a part of such a great community of people for so many years. Keyboards have become a huge part of my life since that day back in 2013 when I first discovered GeekHack and stayed up for 48 hours straight learning everything I could about Cherry switches. To me, GeekHack isn't the keys to the server that the forum runs on; it's the sum total interactions of the amazing, kind, generous people who have made this place what it has been for so long, many of whom have become some of my dearest friends. So, I have to confess: set against that otherwise happy mood and context, this news arrived to me with a considerable amount of heartbreak.

I frankly didn't even realize GeekHack had an "owner" until yesterday. I had always assumed that it was simply run by a collective of sort of moderator-trustees with the primary aim of serving the community. It never occurred to me that in all my years of interactions on the site, sharing and mutual learning, creating and documenting projects, and more recently organizing group buys for people who want the same stuff I do, that I was actually just cultivating a cash asset for someone I'd never heard of—something that could be bundled up, packaged, and sold to the highest bidder. So, when it comes to my feelings on the matter, the particular identity of that high-bidder isn't really material. It's the fact that there was ever bidding in the first place.

For whatever it's worth, though, while MassDrop may not be the worst buyer imaginable, comparing it against an anonymous hostile Chinese takeover is kind of maybe a low bar. And I think this awesome community is worthy of a very high bar indeed. My experiences as a customer and sometime business partner of MassDrop have been decidedly mixed. Without digressing too much into those experiences, one thing I think that is pretty safe to assert: when it comes to creating a friendly, positive, community-spirited social atmosphere online, MassDrop discussion treads are probably not the greatest portfolio piece for that company as a custodian of online community spirit.

Also, in my experience, it's not possible within most corporate cultures to justify getting into a bidding war and paying top dollar for an asset unless you have very specific plans to monetize it and get some kind of return on that investment. I don't know what MassDrop's plans are for that monetization, but even if they claimed they didn't have any (which they haven't quite gone so far as to do at this point), I'm not sure that would be terribly credible. I'm not looking forward to seeing what the roll-out of those plans looks like, which would surely be timed to emerge well after this controversy dies down. The language of the announcement appears carefully worded to leave just the right openings for this kind of strategic long game. I'm not ascribing malice here; I'm just trying to be realistic.

Obviously, I don't object to commercial activity in this community. I've sort of fallen into that myself, and it's a lot of fun. The whole premise is being obsessed with particular physical objects, and a necessary part of the premise of making stuff is money or goods changing hands. I've also been delighted to be able to buy things from other members of the community for years, whether professional vendors or not. Commerce is one thing; community ownership is something else entirely.

As far as I'm concerned, we the people of GeekHack who have built is content, its traffic, and its culture over these many years are its true owners. (Having watched it all unfold, I can say with some confidence that GeekHack made MassDrop viable, not the other way around.) Despite the bad forum software, eye-ball searing color scheme, and logistical annoyances, I've persisted here in doing projects at GeekHack because of my nostalgic attachment to the site and my deep affection for my fellow members of its community. My participation here has always been about furthering that community, and that's what I thought I was doing all along.

I'm just not sure how enthusiastic I am to continue participating here merely to build further cash-value for the VCs backing MassDrop, rather than being able to think about it as building value for a shared community that can control it own destiny. Without the community-oriented mission and spirit, this is just a really ugly website.

Perhaps American Independence Day is an appropriate day for this revelation. For those of us who have the kind of sentimental attachment to this community that I have described—or at least what we thought this community was—maybe it's time for us to think about rallying elsewhere. Wouldn't it be kind of be an amusing Oedipal irony if it turned out that MassDrop grossly overpaid for GeekHack as asset, the acquisition of which precipitated its own collapse?

Very well said my friend, while I am fairly new & pretty unknown here the community atmosphere is what drew me in & kept me here. Your post definitely has giving me a different angle to view this situation at. Dicey times for us here for sure, but I feel like MD at least deserves a shot to back up their claims before we start jumping ship. That said I would be 100% behind a community owned & run site for us to congregate at even if GH still stays a decent place for us.
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Offline Wetherbee

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #165 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:10:24 »

Honestly most of the hardcore artisan and manufacturing community has already splintered off and moved to other platforms where they can focus on their specific geekery in more depth.

I'm just waiting for Norbauer to start his own community and then I'll literally have no more reason to use Geekhack at all.

Offline dimo

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Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #166 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:13:17 »
I joined geekhack for the artisan community, the makers, and the designers, not to be Massdrop's captive audience so they can push their corporate agenda.

Massdrop isn't ponying up cash to buy this community because they have your interests at heart. They aren't interested in how you make refinements to Korean customs or how best to mix the colors for your artisanal resin. They are doing it because it will put money into their pockets. There is nothing wrong with corporate greed but I personally don't see Massdrop providing any value to the community. The goal of a distributor is to control the market and push out competitors and this is exactly what they are doing. This is exactly what AB Inbev does to craft breweries in their attempts to control distribution and the end result is not good for the consumer. Massdrop uses their market share to drive the profits of groupbuys towards their own pockets, resulting in increased prices for you.

Go ahead and take a "wait and see" approach, but I think folks are just in shock and denial. Massdrop will sit on the investment for a while until it becomes the new normal and then they will slowly start making subtle changes to further their own interests and justify the purchase. Legally they own everything you post.

I would rather geekhack died and the community move to other platforms rather than give it to these corporate interests. Massdrop has proven over time that they rarely, if ever, care about the interests of our community. Read up on the history of this platform and you will be terrified.

But Massdrop will gain their full money back in 2-3 years if everything is kept the same with minor improvements. If they start “pushing their corporate agenda”, then they will lose all the money they paid for the site.

I’m happy to see all the r/hailcorporate wacks leave the community though


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« Last Edit: Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:15:07 by dimo »

Online Vigrith

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #167 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:34:16 »
Honestly most of the hardcore artisan and manufacturing community has already splintered off and moved to other platforms where they can focus on their specific geekery in more depth.

I'm just waiting for Norbauer to start his own community and then I'll literally have no more reason to use Geekhack at all.

I think you grossly underestimate how hard it is to actually get a meaningful amount of people to leave just because you feel it is warranted to leave or that it's the right move. There are a ton of users (I'd wager the vast majority) that really don't care who owns the website, who had (and still don't) no idea who iMav even is, who have no idea who the mods are, etc. It's really hard to get people to take action, people enjoy being comfortable even if alternatives out there are thousandfold "better" - especially when in the eyes of many, there isn't even a problem to deal with yet. It's the whole prepper/survivalist paradox. Is the world gonna end and should you be ready for it? Maybe.

Most successful artisans don't need GH, they haven't for a while, they can run their raffles literally anywhere and get 500% cap on their entry limit because of the dynamic of the niche - they produce very little and the hardcore people who are crazy about artisan caps are plentiful in comparison. Good for them, truly, there are makers within the community whom I consider to be my very good friends, but it's a really bad example to use if you want to portray an exodus.

I hate to wave the "corporate wacks" flag Dimo raised, but it really seems to be true for the better part right now. It's just the way it is, though, some people will always see big companies like this as the big bad and wait for the day where the looming impending doom finally comes crashing down because they've been burned one too many times - or not, actually, you never know these days because of the whole victim/offended culture that's being widespread of late where people went from being resentful and fearful for things they've suffered through, to feeling that because of things their ancestors went through, to now feeling like that over people they read about on wikipedia and see on the news. I'm not saying that scenario is entirely impossible, I believe it to be well within the realm of possibility most the time including here, I just find it unlikely in this particular situation from a business stand point hence my stance on it.

Offline yinzer

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #168 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:41:37 »

But Massdrop will gain their full money back in 2-3 years if everything is kept the same with minor improvements. If they start “pushing their corporate agenda”, then they will lose all the money they paid for the site.

I’m happy to see all the r/hailcorporate wacks leave the community though


Are you kidding me, dude? Slow your roll.

People are upset that there is a big vendor buying the forum. It's not unreasonable to be suspicious. Even Will in the OP said that he hoped that people would even be "cautiously optimistic". Some people are overreacting for sure, but they're no more r/hailcorporate than you are a white knight for Massdrop.

Offline dimo

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Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #169 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:46:29 »

But Massdrop will gain their full money back in 2-3 years if everything is kept the same with minor improvements. If they start “pushing their corporate agenda”, then they will lose all the money they paid for the site.

I’m happy to see all the r/hailcorporate wacks leave the community though


Are you kidding me, dude? Slow your roll.

People are upset that there is a big vendor buying the forum. It's not unreasonable to be suspicious. Even Will in the OP said that he hoped that people would even be "cautiously optimistic". Some people are overreacting for sure, but they're no more r/hailcorporate than you are a white knight for Massdrop.

You’re telling me to slow my roll when the guy I was replying to literally wanted to break off from Geekhack no matter what happens and form his own forum? And he made that decision in less than 12 hours after the announcement. He literally said “I hope geekhack dies off” based off MD making 1 announcement post.

I’m sorry I’m throwing phrases out but it seems appropriate when a lot of people should be slowing their rolls and chilling the **** out to see what ACTUALLY happens.

And yes, if this dude is saying “geekhack should die off” and is so willing to switch to a different forum. I’d be happy to see him go.

Although I also don’t understand how MD will destroy the “artisan business”. Will they force them to use MD instead of raffling on r/mm? **** no that’s not happening

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« Last Edit: Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:53:56 by dimo »

Offline katushkin

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #170 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:49:33 »
I think this will fall on deaf ears but what ever.

People are seriously over reacting and acting childish.

could have stopped here

Geekhackers? Overreacting? Never!!?!??!

I joined geekhack for the artisan community, the makers, and the designers, not to be Massdrop's captive audience so they can push their corporate agenda.

Massdrop isn't ponying up cash to buy this community because they have your interests at heart. They aren't interested in how you make refinements to Korean customs or how best to mix the colors for your artisanal resin. They are doing it because it will put money into their pockets. There is nothing wrong with corporate greed but I personally don't see Massdrop providing any value to the community. The goal of a distributor is to control the market and push out competitors and this is exactly what they are doing. This is exactly what AB Inbev does to craft breweries in their attempts to control distribution and the end result is not good for the consumer. Massdrop uses their market share to drive the profits of groupbuys towards their own pockets, resulting in increased prices for you.

Go ahead and take a "wait and see" approach, but I think folks are just in shock and denial. Massdrop will sit on the investment for a while until it becomes the new normal and then they will slowly start making subtle changes to further their own interests and justify the purchase. Legally they own everything you post.

I would rather geekhack died and the community move to other platforms rather than give it to these corporate interests. Massdrop has proven over time that they rarely, if ever, care about the interests of our community. Read up on the history of this platform and you will be terrified.

While I am, in my very nature, a sceptic, I think you are being very over sceptical about this whole thing. The only posts I've seen from you in this thread are about how you think MD are going to try and push their products on you, and how that is going to destroy your experience of the forum.

If you actually read the initial post past the "Hi I'm will from Massdrop and we just bought Geekhack" sentence, you would have seen their intentions, history in the community, the mods positivity around it, and the ethos that is trying to be pushed out to us all. Yeah sure, you can keep thinking that MD are going to turn into overzealous corporate overlords who will put banner ads everywhere, but I don't think you'll get very far in life with that mentality.

I want to take the statement at face value, and appreciate that MD have not quite saved us from a bad deal at the hands of the Chinese, but are willing to try and keep the community in the community.

Massdrop already have a presence on this forum, and to push it outside of it's current form would be a bad move in my opinion and they are going to get nowhere with their investment of however many thousands of dollars if they try pushing things that aren't keyboards to a keyboard community. We know Massdrop exists, we know what they sell, and they know we know what they sell. They don't need to sell themselves to us.

I obviously don't get the concern about being an artisan maker because I don't do any of that stuff, but how could MD possibly be encroaching on your business in that sense?



Now in terms of questions, I have a couple that I might add to as time goes on:

Q1: What do you want me to do with my monthly donation? Cancel or keep it going?

Q2: Will my @geekhack.org email address continue to work and redirect or will I have to contact someone about that?
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Offline Wetherbee

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #171 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:53:16 »
I think you grossly underestimate how hard it is to actually get a meaningful amount of people to leave just because you feel it is warranted to leave or that it's the right move.

You are putting words in my mouth. Moving en-masse to another platform is a fantasy. Also, business fuels this community - artisans and makers are only succesful insofar as they can bring their goods to market. They should be able to make a living working at their art. However, allowing ambitious distributors and middle-men to literally own the medium of communication is not a good idea.

The fact that we let this happen is just an indicator, for me personally, that I'm not sure geekhack is going to be as relevant to me going forward as it once was. I'm not saying the same may be true for you.




Offline mkawa

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #172 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:54:58 »
massdrop.com now owns all of your posts on this forum and every single private message you have ever sent or received on this platform.

further, this means they can resell them at will in whole or in part to anyone or anything. you may have noticed that they have also currently locked you out of your user control panel.

have fun!

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline yinzer

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #173 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:57:39 »

But Massdrop will gain their full money back in 2-3 years if everything is kept the same with minor improvements. If they start “pushing their corporate agenda”, then they will lose all the money they paid for the site.

I’m happy to see all the r/hailcorporate wacks leave the community though


Are you kidding me, dude? Slow your roll.

People are upset that there is a big vendor buying the forum. It's not unreasonable to be suspicious. Even Will in the OP said that he hoped that people would even be "cautiously optimistic". Some people are overreacting for sure, but they're no more r/hailcorporate than you are a white knight for Massdrop.

You’re telling me to slow my roll when the guy I was replying to literally wanted to break off from Geekhack no matter what happens and form his own forum? And he made that decision in less than 12 hours after the announcement. He literally said “I hope geekhack dies off” based off MD making 1 announcement post.

I’m sorry I’m throwing phrases out but it seems appropriate when a lot of people should be slowing their rolls and chilling the **** out to see what ACTUALLY happens.

And yes, if this dude is saying “geekhack should die off” and is so willing to switch to a different forum. I’d be happy to see him go.

Although I also don’t understand how MD will destroy the “artisan business”. Will they force them to use MD instead of raffling on r/mm? **** no that’s not happening

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There's a middle ground a lot of people are missing, including you.

Offline dimo

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Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #174 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 20:57:59 »
massdrop.com now owns all of your posts on this forum and every single private message you have ever sent or received on this platform.

further, this means they can resell them at will in whole or in part to anyone or anything. you may have noticed that they have also currently locked you out of your user control panel.

have fun!

Will is actually Chinese and is currently data mining our info while posed as a stock photo white dude in his pfp.


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Offline katushkin

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #175 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 21:00:17 »
massdrop.com now owns all of your posts on this forum and every single private message you have ever sent or received on this platform.

further, this means they can resell them at will in whole or in part to anyone or anything. you may have noticed that they have also currently locked you out of your user control panel.

have fun!

Yeah, welcome to the world. Every site ever could do that to you if they wanted. Hell, iMav could have sold your data five years ago or even yesterday to a Chinese bloke, but because this company (that is full of members of other communities enthusiastic about all sorts of things, one of whom has been here on this forum for six years) has bought the site, you are immediately sceptical? I don't think naïve is the right word for it, but I think it's pretty stupid to think a business is less responsible about your personal data than a bloke.

Which part of the control panel are you talking about? I can get into all of the parts of my account and profile settings like I could before...
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Offline manitoid

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #176 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 21:03:10 »
Honestly most of the hardcore artisan and manufacturing community has already splintered off and moved to other platforms where they can focus on their specific geekery in more depth.

I'm just waiting for Norbauer to start his own community and then I'll literally have no more reason to use Geekhack at all.

I think you grossly underestimate how hard it is to actually get a meaningful amount of people to leave just because you feel it is warranted to leave or that it's the right move. There are a ton of users (I'd wager the vast majority) that really don't care who owns the website, who had (and still don't) no idea who iMav even is, who have no idea who the mods are, etc. It's really hard to get people to take action, people enjoy being comfortable even if alternatives out there are thousandfold "better" - especially when in the eyes of many, there isn't even a problem to deal with yet. It's the whole prepper/survivalist paradox. Is the world gonna end and should you be ready for it? Maybe.

I think you underestimate the the amount of value that the "1%" in this forum bring to the table.
99% of the people might not care who owns the site, but they also don't create much value (OC).


Does anyone remember LivingWithStyle forums from the early 2000s?
Just about 10 years ago, LWS was sold and basically all of the sub-forums splintered off into their own sites. Some of them still owned by the new company that bought LWS and some cut ties and we're built from the ground up as replacements for the respective sub-forums. It didn't matter who owned the new forums, just about every single one of them failed. The only one I know of still up is casualdiscourse.com but it's functionally dead, no one uses it.

Problem was exactly what you think makes this not a problem.
99% of the users didn't care who was running it and went where the site told them to.
1% of users that created content, didn't jive well with the new owners and went elsewhere (reddit was just a baby at this time, most migrated here).

As a result, the forums with members had a lack of content, and the forums with content had a lack of users.
Everyone folded.

I was part-owner of one of the more popular sub-forums, and we decided to build a new forum without the help of the buying group. We lasted a few years, but honestly we ended up doing the same thing as iMav here, selling it off to the highest bidder after treading water for 4-5 years. (a forum was worth a lot less back then, even with more than 5x the daily pageviews being reported for GH)



Online FrostyToast

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #177 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 21:04:29 »
I'll try to be optimistic.
But I'll also try to learn Korean.
Quote from: elton5354
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Online Vigrith

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #178 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 21:04:52 »
You are putting words in my mouth. Moving en-masse to another platform is a fantasy. Also, business fuels this community - artisans and makers are only succesful insofar as they can bring their goods to market. They should be able to make a living working at their art. However, allowing ambitious distributors and middle-men to literally own the medium of communication is not a good idea.

The fact that we let this happen is just an indicator, for me personally, that I'm not sure geekhack is going to be as relevant to me going forward as it once was. I'm not saying the same may be true for you.

I'm not putting words in your mouth, I'm inferring - correctly, I believe. Might be wrong, and as said I'm not saying you're wrong with your reasoning, I'm just saying I disagree with most of what you've posted and the way you've worded the majority of it. You say stuff like "They aren't interested in how you make refinements to Korean customs or how best to mix the colors for your artisanal resin" which can read as implying iMav somehow did have those interests at heart for the past 8+ years? If that's not what you mean, and you instead mean to use it as an allegory to illustrate that you believe Massdrop has ulterior motives which will eventually creep into the Korean custom refinement and resin mixing markets, then I understand the sentiment and disagree once again.

I absolutely concur with the latter part of that statement there though, relevancy is down to each one of us and the only reason I believe I'm "right" and you're "wrong" in a lot of ways is because from a business perspective it is imperative that Massdrop treat lightly and stick to their word because as said earlier by others as well as myself, with hobbies/communities like the keyboard one the last thing you wanna do is piss people off. They can be in the green doing nothing, I think it stands to reason they won't risk being in the red just to shove mountaineering socks and headphones down your mouth or taking fees from community ran GBs to make 5 extra grand a month.

Offline dimo

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Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #179 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 21:05:12 »
Honestly most of the hardcore artisan and manufacturing community has already splintered off and moved to other platforms where they can focus on their specific geekery in more depth.

I'm just waiting for Norbauer to start his own community and then I'll literally have no more reason to use Geekhack at all.

I think you grossly underestimate how hard it is to actually get a meaningful amount of people to leave just because you feel it is warranted to leave or that it's the right move. There are a ton of users (I'd wager the vast majority) that really don't care who owns the website, who had (and still don't) no idea who iMav even is, who have no idea who the mods are, etc. It's really hard to get people to take action, people enjoy being comfortable even if alternatives out there are thousandfold "better" - especially when in the eyes of many, there isn't even a problem to deal with yet. It's the whole prepper/survivalist paradox. Is the world gonna end and should you be ready for it? Maybe.

I think you underestimate the the amount of value that the "1%" in this forum bring to the table.
99% of the people might not care who owns the site, but they also don't create much value (OC).


Does anyone remember LivingWithStyle forums from the early 2000s?
Just about 10 years ago, LWS was sold and basically all of the sub-forums splintered off into their own sites. Some of them still owned by the new company that bought LWS and some cut ties and we're built from the ground up as replacements for the respective sub-forums. It didn't matter who owned the new forums, just about every single one of them failed. The only one I know of still up is casualdiscourse.com but it's functionally dead, no one uses it.

Problem was exactly what you think makes this not a problem.
99% of the users didn't care who was running it and went where the site told them to.
1% of users that created content, didn't jive well with the new owners and went elsewhere (reddit was just a baby at this time, most migrated here).

As a result, the forums with members had a lack of content, and the forums with content had a lack of users.
Everyone folded.

I was part-owner of one of the more popular sub-forums, and we decided to build a new forum without the help of the buying group. We lasted a few years, but honestly we ended up doing the same thing as iMav here, selling it off to the highest bidder after treading water for 4-5 years. (a forum was worth a lot less back then, even with more than 5x the daily pageviews being reported for GH)

You’re assuming all the people against the decision are also the same people creating the content. All of the big name creators I’ve seen so far have been in support of the decision. So the 1% in our scenario are just consumers as I’m seeing— making them not very relevant to the entirety of the forum and its longevity.


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Offline lemur

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #180 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 21:07:12 »
Read up on the history of this platform and you will be terrified.

confirmed: massdrop basically raytheon.
keyboards

Offline manitoid

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #181 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 21:17:11 »

You’re assuming all the people against the decision are also the same people creating the content. All of the big name creators I’ve seen so far have been in support of the decision. So the 1% in our scenario are just consumers as I’m seeing— making them not very relevant to the entirety of the forum and its longevity.


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You're right, I didn't cross-reference this. I also don't think it's fair to guess at what will happen with the user-base for at least another month.

Offline chuckdee

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #182 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 21:21:09 »
Q2: Will my @geekhack.org email address continue to work and redirect or will I have to contact someone about that?

I have this same question :)
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Online Puddsy

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #183 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 21:30:03 »
massdrop.com now owns all of your posts on this forum and every single private message you have ever sent or received on this platform.

further, this means they can resell them at will in whole or in part to anyone or anything. you may have noticed that they have also currently locked you out of your user control panel.

have fun!

i still have full access to my user control panel

i think it was just you who got locked out, and not by MD

but i can't confirm that

then again im in the testing usergroup so i might have been spared

but ming, you gotta chill out with the doomsaying, the forum was fine after you left, it'll be fine now

talk to me in 6 months and if i'm wrong i'll be happy to admit it

I'll try to be optimistic.
But I'll also try to learn Korean.

me for the last 2 years tbh
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Online OracleKev

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #184 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 21:40:30 »
I just got back from KeyCon where I enjoyed some of the most excellent fellowship and hard-core geekery I've ever had the pleasure to enjoy in my life, and I was actually just musing to myself how fortunate I felt to have been a part of such a great community of people for so many years. Keyboards have become a huge part of my life since that day back in 2013 when I first discovered GeekHack and stayed up for 48 hours straight learning everything I could about Cherry switches. To me, GeekHack isn't the keys to the server that the forum runs on; it's the sum total interactions of the amazing, kind, generous people who have made this place what it has been for so long, many of whom have become some of my dearest friends. So, I have to confess: set against that otherwise happy mood and context, this news arrived to me with a considerable amount of heartbreak.

I frankly didn't even realize GeekHack had an "owner" until yesterday. I had always assumed that it was simply run by a collective of sort of moderator-trustees with the primary aim of serving the community. It never occurred to me that in all my years of interactions on the site, sharing and mutual learning, creating and documenting projects, and more recently organizing group buys for people who want the same stuff I do, that I was actually just cultivating a cash asset for someone I'd never heard of—something that could be bundled up, packaged, and sold to the highest bidder. So, when it comes to my feelings on the matter, the particular identity of that high-bidder isn't really material. It's the fact that there was ever bidding in the first place.

For whatever it's worth, though, while MassDrop may not be the worst buyer imaginable, comparing it against an anonymous hostile Chinese takeover is kind of maybe a low bar. And I think this awesome community is worthy of a very high bar indeed. My experiences as a customer and sometime business partner of MassDrop have been decidedly mixed. Without digressing too much into those experiences, one thing I think that is pretty safe to assert: when it comes to creating a friendly, positive, community-spirited social atmosphere online, MassDrop discussion treads are probably not the greatest portfolio piece for that company as a custodian of online community spirit.

Also, in my experience, it's not possible within most corporate cultures to justify getting into a bidding war and paying top dollar for an asset unless you have very specific plans to monetize it and get some kind of return on that investment. I don't know what MassDrop's plans are for that monetization, but even if they claimed they didn't have any (which they haven't quite gone so far as to do at this point), I'm not sure that would be terribly credible. I'm not looking forward to seeing what the roll-out of those plans looks like, which would surely be timed to emerge well after this controversy dies down. The language of the announcement appears carefully worded to leave just the right openings for this kind of strategic long game. I'm not ascribing malice here; I'm just trying to be realistic.

Obviously, I don't object to commercial activity in this community. I've sort of fallen into that myself, and it's a lot of fun. The whole premise is being obsessed with particular physical objects, and a necessary part of the premise of making stuff is money or goods changing hands. I've also been delighted to be able to buy things from other members of the community for years, whether professional vendors or not. Commerce is one thing; community ownership is something else entirely.

As far as I'm concerned, we the people of GeekHack who have built is content, its traffic, and its culture over these many years are its true owners. (Having watched it all unfold, I can say with some confidence that GeekHack made MassDrop viable, not the other way around.) Despite the bad forum software, eye-ball searing color scheme, and logistical annoyances, I've persisted here in doing projects at GeekHack because of my nostalgic attachment to the site and my deep affection for my fellow members of its community. My participation here has always been about furthering that community, and that's what I thought I was doing all along.

I'm just not sure how enthusiastic I am to continue participating here merely to build further cash-value for the VCs backing MassDrop, rather than being able to think about it as building value for a shared community that can control it own destiny. Without the community-oriented mission and spirit, this is just a really ugly website.

Perhaps American Independence Day is an appropriate day for this revelation. For those of us who have the kind of sentimental attachment to this community that I have described—or at least what we thought this community was—maybe it's time for us to think about rallying elsewhere. Wouldn't it be kind of be an amusing Oedipal irony if it turned out that MassDrop grossly overpaid for GeekHack as asset, the acquisition of which precipitated its own collapse?

Thanks for putting in to words a lot of what I’ve been thinking this morning after reading this forum. I feel like the past two days have been somewhat like hearing your best friend was dying, finding out that someone could possibly donate an organ to save him, and then hearing that the donated organ was a brain transplant.

Both well said, after roller-coasting through disheartening low points, this outcome has warmer feel.
But it doesn't change the fact that GH is now in the hands of very savvy business people who has mixed track record.
This community should stay vigilant, so commercialism and community land in the right balance.

Offline mkawa

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #185 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 21:41:55 »
it's highly possible i locked myself out of a whole bunch of stuff when i handed over the keys years ago. i had to make a bunch of changes to my account and then revoke my privs to change accounts so who knows. i haven't logged in in years so i wouldn't have noticed.

anyway, i'm way past my cycle limit on this place.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Online Puddsy

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #186 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 21:47:05 »
it's highly possible i locked myself out of a whole bunch of stuff when i handed over the keys years ago. i had to make a bunch of changes to my account and then revoke my privs to change accounts so who knows. i haven't logged in in years so i wouldn't have noticed.

anyway, i'm way past my cycle limit on this place.

it says "no marketplace access" above your avatar so that may be related
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Online dead_pixel_design

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #187 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 22:10:56 »
Q: What was the final sale price? I missed it if it was listed, and after so many numbers were thrown around, and so many members feel as though their community was having a price put on it I would like to know what our community is worth to MD and what it ended up being worth to iMav. I think a little transparency into the business of the sale would go a long way to establishing trust as a new owner with the community MD now owns, and showing their hand a little bit would be a good gesture of faith. Unless it was already stated somewhere and I just missed it, I tried to skin through the thread and get caught up after being away from a day but a lot has happend since yesterday morning.

Offline shower_king

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #188 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 22:17:41 »
The same here. Even not best outcome, it could be a better choice in comparison with buying by some not so professional guys

Offline livingspeedbump

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #189 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 22:27:24 »
Read up on the history of this platform and you will be terrified.

confirmed: massdrop basically raytheon.

and Raytheon is badass.  :p
Proof:
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Offline Hamel

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #190 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 22:32:12 »
Now I feel rather relieved.

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Offline katushkin

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #191 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 22:32:35 »
Q: What was the final sale price? I missed it if it was listed, and after so many numbers were thrown around, and so many members feel as though their community was having a price put on it I would like to know what our community is worth to MD and what it ended up being worth to iMav. I think a little transparency into the business of the sale would go a long way to establishing trust as a new owner with the community MD now owns, and showing their hand a little bit would be a good gesture of faith. Unless it was already stated somewhere and I just missed it, I tried to skin through the thread and get caught up after being away from a day but a lot has happend since yesterday morning.

I don't think having a sale price will help with anything. I think transparency around the process of the sale is good and it has been alluded to in the OP. I don't think iMav will want to return after the level of hate he got, and if we get a figure, it will just turn into "He sold out his 10 year old baby for just $60k? What a ****ing sellout!" Replace the figure for literally any other number and people will still complain because god forbid the person who has been hosting this website for all of us for literally ever has decided to get something back for all his work.
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Offline romevi

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #192 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 22:44:13 »
Plus, is a dollar figure even within our right to know? I think that crosses the line of transparency and into privacy.

Online dead_pixel_design

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #193 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 22:45:36 »
I don't think having a sale price will help with anything. I think transparency around the process of the sale is good and it has been alluded to in the OP. I don't think iMav will want to return after the level of hate he got, and if we get a figure, it will just turn into "He sold out his 10 year old baby for just $60k? What a ****ing sellout!" Replace the figure for literally any other number and people will still complain because god forbid the person who has been hosting this website for all of us for literally ever has decided to get something back for all his work.

Yeah, that's fair. I have always been in the 'get as much money as you can for it camp'. But I would like to know the final figure.

Offline grizzly_teddy

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #194 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 22:46:00 »
Any thoughts about making GeekHack a little easier to read? This 2000s-style forum gui is just kind of awful to be honest. I hope that is something Massdrop can look into.
> The way GH looks now, to a regular person, it screams, "Oh dang, this is one of **those** sites for really devoted and weird people".

Online dead_pixel_design

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #195 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 22:48:23 »
Any thoughts about making GeekHack a little easier to read? This 2000s-style forum gui is just kind of awful to be honest. I hope that is something Massdrop can look into.

If MassDrop has one thing going for it, it is it's aesthetic.

Offline dimo

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #196 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 22:52:52 »
Any thoughts about making GeekHack a little easier to read? This 2000s-style forum gui is just kind of awful to be honest. I hope that is something Massdrop can look into.

If MassDrop has one thing going for it, it is it's aesthetic.

I always found it hard to see who’s replying to who in MD discussion— although it rarely mattered as the discussion there isn’t very useful. Although the rest of the site does look great! I’ll be excited to see a makeover but I still like some functions of the current GH with how some things work like an old school forum.


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Online Vigrith

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #197 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 23:01:23 »
Any thoughts about making GeekHack a little easier to read? This 2000s-style forum gui is just kind of awful to be honest. I hope that is something Massdrop can look into.

This makes very little sense to me. What exactly is hard to read? Threads are organised by the latest interaction, posts are chronologically displayed and the quote system works as it should. Maybe I'm just old but if there's anything geekhack has always had going for it "aesthetically" speaking, it's gotta be format. MD's discussion boards are much less intuitive, as are Reddit and other newer "discussion boards".

Offline Kilgarah

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #198 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 23:02:52 »
Any thoughts about making GeekHack a little easier to read? This 2000s-style forum gui is just kind of awful to be honest. I hope that is something Massdrop can look into.

This makes very little sense to me. What exactly is hard to read? Threads are organised by the latest interaction, posts are chronologically displayed and the quote system works as it should. Maybe I'm just old but if there's anything geekhack has always had going for it "aesthetically" speaking, it's gotta be format. MD's discussion boards are much less intuitive, as are Reddit and other newer "discussion boards".
I could be wrong, but I think what that guy is talking about is the GUI and colors and stuff, not the actual way the forum is laid out.

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Offline dimo

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack
« Reply #199 on: Wed, 04 July 2018, 23:05:54 »
Any thoughts about making GeekHack a little easier to read? This 2000s-style forum gui is just kind of awful to be honest. I hope that is something Massdrop can look into.

This makes very little sense to me. What exactly is hard to read? Threads are organised by the latest interaction, posts are chronologically displayed and the quote system works as it should. Maybe I'm just old but if there's anything geekhack has always had going for it "aesthetically" speaking, it's gotta be format. MD's discussion boards are much less intuitive, as are Reddit and other newer "discussion boards".
I could be wrong, but I think what that guy is talking about is the GUI and colors and stuff, not the actual way the forum is laid out.

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That makes sense! I guess I just quickly assumed a big rework.