Author Topic: [IC] Infinite Split  (Read 3717 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Blitzschnitzel

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 32
  • Location: Bremen
[IC] Infinite Split
« on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 15:21:38 »
205044-0

205046-1

205048-2

This is an early stage concept. So, there is no pricing yet. I just wanted to ask for input and if there would be enough interest in the idea to develop it further.

Each Infinite Split (Working Title) is a separate keyboard with its own processor and a 2 port USB-hub. You can daisy-chain as many of the 6x5 ortho boards as your USB port power output allows. You could just get one for fps gaming and plug your main keyboard into the second USB-C port, or you could use several modules to build a keyboard as long as your desk. The modules can be split or combined with the magnets in the case's sides. The aluminium mounting plate is resting on top rather than in the case. This way it is possible to have a completely bezel-less case easy to combine with other modules.

What do you guys think? :D

EDIT: If you find this concept interesting please tell me how/what for you could see yourself using the modules. Also, how many you would chain together. This would help me with some design decisions.
« Last Edit: Thu, 11 October 2018, 12:52:56 by Blitzschnitzel »

Offline KevinSanToast

  • Posts: 2
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 15:38:07 »
This is amazing! I am definitely interested. What features will the pcbs support? If I may, I hope you would consider hot-swappability and rotary encoder support.

Offline dimo

  • Posts: 402
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 15:44:20 »
All depends on pricing but this is nice (:

Online MikeTheTiger

  • Posts: 561
  • Location: Louisiana
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 15:48:59 »
Nice!!

Offline dead_pixel_design

  • Posts: 586
  • Location: Portland, OR
  • IIIV is not a Roman Numeral. Positive Vibes.
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 16:05:48 »
Very interested

Offline ProtonDecay

  • Posts: 19
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 18:04:46 »
I love this. In for everything pictured assuming the price doesn't work out to something crazy

Offline digid3ar

  • Posts: 12
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 19:29:59 »
like the idea of modules. :thumb:

Online clickityClackity

  • Posts: 138
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 21:14:57 »
Yes please! Awesome concept!

Offline Blitzschnitzel

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 32
  • Location: Bremen
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 23:08:08 »
Thank you guys! :D

This is amazing! I am definitely interested. What features will the pcbs support? If I may, I hope you would consider hot-swappability and rotary encoder support.
If there is enough demand, swappable switches would be possible. However, I would love to see people using 4 - 5 or even 6 modules with crazy CS go or Photoshop shortcut keycaps and really specific productivity macros. Thatís why I am trying to keep the cost per module low. Thatís also the reason, why the mounting points of the switch plate are brass pcb spacers instead of being milled directly into the case. This would reduce machining time and pcb spacers for a few cents should work just as well.
I think I should also drill the holes for the magnets from the top close to the side of the case. This way the magnets are invisible and the case has to be milled only from 3 instead of 5 sides.

Offline young_won

  • Posts: 54
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 08 October 2018, 09:37:57 »
i'm interested in :)

hotswap +1

and i wish multi layers
« Last Edit: Mon, 08 October 2018, 09:40:43 by young_won »

Offline suicidal_orange

  • * Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3155
  • Location: England
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 08 October 2018, 10:15:56 »
and i wish multi layers

These are individual keyboards on a USB hub so you can't change layer on one board and have it effect the other(s), you'll have to press "FN" on the same board as you're trying to press the key on.  Ctrl, Alt and Shift are managed by the operating system so you can press them on another board.

As long as this works for you, great :)
                               
Ducky Zero, MX Reds    JD40, Jailhouse Blues           GH60
Soarer controller

Offline jay_seo

  • Posts: 2
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 08 October 2018, 13:24:08 »
This might be the solution to all my problems.

Having to do documentation and visualization, at minimum I'll have autocar and illustrator running which is fine with custom layers on the keyboard. The problem is when I'm working in autocad, illustrator, rhino, and any number of 3D programs with rendering engines that I want to pull my hair out. Changing layers is just not efficient every couple of minutes to make small changes.

I run a 3 monitor setup anyway so having multiple keyboards in front of a monitor with a dedicated numpad type of custom setup would be a dream come true.

Offline KevinSanToast

  • Posts: 2
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 08 October 2018, 13:59:24 »
If there is enough demand, swappable switches would be possible. However, I would love to see people using 4 - 5 or even 6 modules with crazy CS go or Photoshop shortcut keycaps and really specific productivity macros. Thatís why I am trying to keep the cost per module low. Thatís also the reason, why the mounting points of the switch plate are brass pcb spacers instead of being milled directly into the case. This would reduce machining time and pcb spacers for a few cents should work just as well.
I think I should also drill the holes for the magnets from the top close to the side of the case. This way the magnets are invisible and the case has to be milled only from 3 instead of 5 sides.

This makes a lot of sense. I agree with keeping the costs down for the majority of consumers. The best part about your design is that it is completely modular. So perhaps sometime down the line, you would release a more expensive pcb with more features to add on the originals, I would be very interested in that as well. It's funny you mention photoshop, because I love using the rotary encoder for the adobe suite.

Either way, I will be watching this project very closely. I don't browse gh very often, but this thread I can get behind. I wish you the best of luck!

Offline Blitzschnitzel

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 32
  • Location: Bremen
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 09 October 2018, 16:50:35 »
and i wish multi layers
Yes, layers would definitely be a feature. But as suicidal_orange wrote the layers will be handled by each module separately and not span over the whole chain. I guess it could be possible to have the modules recognize each other and communicate layer states but I'm not that good of a programmer.^^ Maybe someone else would mod that in. If you only use one module this is not an issue. If you use 3 or more you can have everything on the top layer. Only if you want to have a 50% split board you would have to get used to a left an right layer state. However, the idea of the modules is to put everything you could possibly need on the top layer. 
This might be the solution to all my problems. Having to do documentation and visualization, at minimum I'll have autocar and illustrator running which is fine with custom layers on the keyboard. The problem is when I'm working in autocad, illustrator, rhino, and any number of 3D programs with rendering engines that I want to pull my hair out. Changing layers is just not efficient every couple of minutes to make small changes. I run a 3 monitor setup anyway so having multiple keyboards in front of a monitor with a dedicated numpad type of custom setup would be a dream come true.
You're the kind of guy I had in mind for this. :D
This makes a lot of sense. I agree with keeping the costs down for the majority of consumers. The best part about your design is that it is completely modular. So perhaps sometime down the line, you would release a more expensive pcb with more features to add on the originals, I would be very interested in that as well. It's funny you mention photoshop, because I love using the rotary encoder for the adobe suite.
Either way, I will be watching this project very closely. I don't browse gh very often, but this thread I can get behind. I wish you the best of luck!
Once the concept is developed enough and I could give a prize estimate I would make a feature vote. Including swappable switches. As I had media creator definitely in mind with this concept, I can see the usefulness of module with a rotary encoder. But that would be an option for later. First, I would concentrate on the one size fits all numpad style.


« Last Edit: Tue, 09 October 2018, 17:03:27 by Blitzschnitzel »

Offline equalunique

  • Posts: 43
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 10 October 2018, 16:17:34 »
Looks fantastic. I will keep tabs on this.

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk


Offline Blitzschnitzel

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 32
  • Location: Bremen
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 11 October 2018, 09:11:18 »
Does someone have one of these USB multimeters and could check the current draw of a board with an ATMEGA32U4 Chip? The documentation states a peak draw of 200mA which would mean a maximum of 4 boards in chain on a USB 3 port. However, I am pretty sure the chip isn't running at full blast just to monitor some switch states. Perhaps it could draw the full load on bootup but I guess It would be possible to have the module chain boot in sequence. Maybe with a transistor on the powerline.

Offline gnunin

  • Posts: 70
  • Location: Sweden
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 12 October 2018, 02:33:41 »
QMK? Depending on pricing I'm interested

Offline Blitzschnitzel

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 32
  • Location: Bremen
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 12 October 2018, 13:52:33 »
Exept for the USB-hub controler the pcb will be super standard. So, yes QMK will be a thing.
I am going to order some aluminium plates. Which has become surprisingly cheap. The bars can be removed with a dremel or jigsaw where a 2u keycap is needed. I guess there is no way to make plate mounted stabilisers possible with this design. Right? I've put some cutouts in for now but there is no support from the opposite side.
« Last Edit: Fri, 12 October 2018, 14:16:08 by Blitzschnitzel »

Online holtenc

  • Posts: 93
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 14 October 2018, 21:19:40 »
Exept for the USB-hub controler the pcb will be super standard. So, yes QMK will be a thing.
I am going to order some aluminium plates. Which has become surprisingly cheap. The bars can be removed with a dremel or jigsaw where a 2u keycap is needed. I guess there is no way to make plate mounted stabilisers possible with this design. Right? I've put some cutouts in for now but there is no support from the opposite side.
(Attachment Link)

If you want to use the same plate design for all modules then no, I don't think plate mount stabs is an option. As for asking interested parties to use a dremel or jigsaw.. I dunno. If it's made from aluminum it as you said it shouldn't be that much of a big deal. Might not look very pretty depending on the user's skill and patience. If you go stainless steel I would absolutely not do that.

Offline rumlyne

  • Posts: 24
  • Location: Vienna, Austria
  • ortho, ergo, ertho?!
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 23 October 2018, 04:24:30 »
This is interesting!
Which one is going to be the master? The middle one? Are they linked via trrs or usb?

Insert Signature without plastics

Offline ilouis_07

  • Posts: 433
  • Location: Singapore
  • 不忘初心
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 23 October 2018, 04:32:02 »
like the concept.

Offline Blitzschnitzel

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 32
  • Location: Bremen
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 24 October 2018, 10:00:00 »
This is interesting!
Which one is going to be the master? The middle one? Are they linked via trrs or usb?
There are going to be updates soon. Right now, I am working on the pcb. There is no master. Each one functions as a full keyboard hooked to an internal USB hub. The second port is then free to accept the next module.

Online clickityClackity

  • Posts: 138
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 24 October 2018, 10:34:45 »
This is interesting!
Which one is going to be the master? The middle one? Are they linked via trrs or usb?
There are going to be updates soon. Right now, I am working on the pcb. There is no master. Each one functions as a full keyboard hooked to an internal USB hub. The second port is then free to accept the next module.
I saw some mention of pawer draw, but if I'm understanding this correctly....

So daisy chaining, like ADB(ish)? What would the power-draw limitations be? Like, would 5 daisy chained boards cause issues, would the quality of the cable become a major factor at that point etc.. And if we're daisy chaining, would future modules (trackpad, roller ball, thumb cluster keys) be options down the line? Cause that would be pretty ****in sick...

Just curious, love this concept!

Offline Blitzschnitzel

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 32
  • Location: Bremen
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 25 October 2018, 10:19:28 »
So daisy chaining, like ADB(ish)? What would the power-draw limitations be? Like, would 5 daisy chained boards cause issues, would the quality of the cable become a major factor at that point etc.. 
The documentation of the chip was a bit confusing. 200mA was the max breakdown current not the draw. I estimate each module to draw around 60mA. 420mA if you solder in 30 white 60mW LEDs.
So, for USB 2.0 with a max output of 500mA that would mean: 8 daisy chained modules or at least 1 with backlight blasting at full brightness.
For USB 3.0 with a max output of 900mA that would mean: 15 daisy chained modules or at least 2 with backlight at full brightness.
You can also double the current with a Y-adapter-cable or if you use a powered USB hub you can raise the current to whatever the power supply says. However, the internal passthrough limit is 2A. Meaning, 33 daisy chained modules or at least 4 with backlight at full brightness.

Now the backlight numbers are assuming you want to burn away your retinas each time you look at your keyboard. Since I have no influence over your choice of LEDs I am only giving an ďat leastĒ estimate. If you use less potent or coloured LEDs or reduce the brightness setting, the power draw can reduce significantly. Also, there are going to be jumpers if you only want a caps lock or num light or want to drive these separately from the other LEDs. 

All USB-C cables must be able to carry a minimum of 3 A current. So, if the cables are up to spec this shouldnít be a problem.

And if we're daisy chaining, would future modules (trackpad, roller ball, thumb cluster keys) be options down the line? Cause that would be pretty ****in sick... 

I agree, that would be ****in sick! But first I am going to test the waters with the module that everybody has a use for.

« Last Edit: Thu, 25 October 2018, 20:07:41 by Blitzschnitzel »

Offline DoY

  • Posts: 5
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #24 on: Sun, 28 October 2018, 08:30:57 »
I am really interested... This is going to be an insane good tool for PS editing. Following!

Offline Blitzschnitzel

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 32
  • Location: Bremen
Re: [IC] Infinite Split
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 07 November 2018, 03:47:47 »
So, Iíve got a lot to do recently but I am still on it. I went through some iterations and now have settled for an angle and height that I like. Next, I have to order some neodymium magnets and figure out the right strength for the modules to snap together satisfyingly but not clank together violently.
206861-0