Author Topic: Elecom Huge vs Kensington Expert  (Read 18003 times)

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Offline knightjp

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Elecom Huge vs Kensington Expert
« on: Mon, 12 November 2018, 13:44:10 »
For the past couple of months, while my Kensington Slimblade has been out of commission, I have been using my old Logitech M570. The M570 is great, but I miss the Slimblade.
Considering the Slimblade's buttons gave way so quickly and I've heard that the button of the Expert are more durable.
Looking online, I did see a review on the ELECOM Huge M-HT1URBK and I was wondering how does it compare with the Kensington Expert K64325

Has anyone here used both?

Living in Dubai is a bit of a drag when it comes to geeky stuff. I often need to rely on ebay and amazon purchases. Trackballs are hard to come by here. Mostly the M570 and the new Logitech Ergo.
« Last Edit: Sat, 15 December 2018, 07:58:33 by knightjp »

Offline tex_live_utility

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Re: Elecom Huge vs Kensington Expert
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 06 January 2019, 05:30:29 »
I like some thing about the Huge but not enough to recommend it. The ball sticks a bit making fine precision movement impossible. By comparison the Expert ball just about never sticks. Also the Huge has issues with button placement (scroll wheel too far back), and the contoured hand pad won't fit everyone; apparently it's better if you put something under the trackball to tilt it outwards (for a more vertical hand position). With the Expert, you just plop your hand on top. Then one nice thing about the Huge that the Expert lacks is the extra programmable buttons. The Expert also has its scroll "ring", which can be loud and loose-feeling even though it is physically sturdy. I actually like it, but apparently some people don't-- it certainly doesn't feel refined.

Overall I would choose the Expert any day over the Huge
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Offline knightjp

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Re: Elecom Huge vs Kensington Expert
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 16 November 2019, 13:21:35 »
Sorry for reviving an old thread, but I just didn't see the need to start a new one.

Looking at my desk recently and I noticed that something was missing. Yeah... a replacement to my old Slimblade. I was still using the Logitech m570. Why?.. Well got busy with a work project for the past many months that just got finished and I completely forgot about trackballs.
Kind of a testament to the Logitech really. It has lasted so long and works really well.
But I still do miss my SB.

Getting back to the topic, there are a couple of things that do trouble me about the HUGE. One is the placement of the scroll wheel. I know that some people like it because it is like the old legendary Microsoft Trackball and that's OK. But I do have to ask a question.
How do you select text by using holding the left click and using the scroll wheel in a document or webpage?
Can the HUGE be as accurate as the Expert for graphics and media editing work?...
According to this review, The wheel needs to be moved with the thumb, and that works, but is not always ideal: it’s impossible to Click and Hold (for example holding a Photoshop layer or a document, and then scroll down).
Because the Thumb is used to do the Click & Hold, it can’t be used anymore for the scrolling.

https://www.trackballmouse.org/elecom-m-ht1drbk-huge-wireless-trackball/

I've seen the Expert being used in sound and video studios by pros. So I know it works for fine control of the mouse.
But I am still not sure about the angle. Do I have to have the wrist-rest? Would like to hear from Expert users about that.
« Last Edit: Sun, 17 November 2019, 12:37:55 by knightjp »

Offline Tom_Kazansky

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Re: Elecom Huge vs Kensington Expert
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 18 November 2019, 01:16:51 »
I used a Kensington Expert, then I replaced it with Elecom Huge and, right now, I'm using Elecom DEFT Pro.

- Kensington Expert:
I don't remember why I replaced it. I think due to lack of buttons (4 is not enough) also their software is somewhat lacking.

- Elecom Huge:
enough buttons for me, software is adequate (sometimes it didn't work on "top-level" window like Task Manager, I'm not sure how to call that)
also while using it, your hand lay somewhat flat (despite the curve), my hand hurts in the first few days I use it.

- Elecom DEFT Pro:
enough buttons, software is the same as the Huge.
switching from the Huge to DEFT Pro caues me pain for a few days, after that there is no problems.
by the way, its bluetooth/wireless modes are flawless, only a slight delay in switching between two modes.


Quote
How do you select text by using holding the left click and using the scroll wheel in a document or webpage?
(Huge, DEFT Pro) unfortunately, you can't.
but you can hold left click and move the cursor to select.

Quote
Can the HUGE be as accurate as the Expert for graphics and media editing work?...
since the Expert and the Huge are both operated with forefinger / middle-finger, I think the accuracy should not be too different. (I did use them for Photoshop and stuffs, only some simple taks though)

Quote
But I am still not sure about the angle. Do I have to have the wrist-rest? Would like to hear from Expert users about that.
hmm... I did use the Expert with wrist-rest.

---
if you use the Huge / DEFT Pro, you should remap the middle-mouse button to a separate button, don't use it with the scroll-wheel. Yes, you can click the scroll-wheel but clicking the scroll-wheel without moving the scroll is pretty hard (might as well be impossible).
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" - Arthur C. Clarke


Offline knightjp

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Re: Elecom Huge vs Kensington Expert
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 20 November 2019, 05:34:49 »
@Tom_Kazansky

Thank you for the reply. It was really helpful.

Offline knightjp

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Re: Elecom Huge vs Kensington Expert
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 20 November 2019, 23:55:37 »


Quote
How do you select text by using holding the left click and using the scroll wheel in a document or webpage?
(Huge, DEFT Pro) unfortunately, you can't.
but you can hold left click and move the cursor to select.

Quote
Can the HUGE be as accurate as the Expert for graphics and media editing work?...
since the Expert and the Huge are both operated with forefinger / middle-finger, I think the accuracy should not be too different. (I did use them for Photoshop and stuffs, only some simple taks though)

Quote
itís impossible to Click and Hold (for example holding a Photoshop layer or a document, and then scroll down).

Would your holding button and moving the mouse cursor work in a Photoshop scenario.

Based on your suggestions, I guess I could give the HUGE a try. But you can you really find a reason for picking the HUGE over the Expert other than the number of buttons?


Offline Tom_Kazansky

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Re: Elecom Huge vs Kensington Expert
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 21 November 2019, 01:21:14 »

Would your holding button and moving the mouse cursor work in a Photoshop scenario.

Based on your suggestions, I guess I could give the HUGE a try. But you can you really find a reason for picking the HUGE over the Expert other than the number of buttons?

(Elecom DEFT Pro)
if I use Move tool (V), click on a layer, hold click, move the cursor then the selected layer will move. <--- do you mean this scenario?


well, other than number of buttons, I can't think of other reasons for picking the HUGE over the Expert.  :)
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Offline knightjp

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Re: Elecom Huge vs Kensington Expert
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 24 November 2019, 05:16:13 »
if I use Move tool (V), click on a layer, hold click, move the cursor then the selected layer will move. <--- do you mean this scenario?
I'm not quite sure as I'm not a photoshop expert. But there have been cases when using a mouse where I had to press and hold and then used the scroll. I used to be able to do this on the Slimblade easily because of the scrolling attached to be cursor. I guess your method should work as well.

well, other than number of buttons, I can't think of other reasons for picking the HUGE over the Expert.  :)
That's no problem. Honestly never used the HUGE. So I can't really say much about it. The number of buttons is a good advantage, but I would be happy with the Kensington's 4. I would still be using my Slimblade if it hadn't failed and I'm making do with the M570. So buttons aren't really a big deal for me.
Over the Expert, I guess the angle and of the device does cause some people discomfort.
I mostly bought my trackballs based on the reviews on this site.

https://www.trackballmouse.org/elecom-m-ht1drbk-huge-wireless-trackball/
https://www.trackballmouse.org/kensington-expert-mouse/

Offline knightjp

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Microsoft Trackball Explorer
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 24 November 2019, 06:09:32 »
Looking at reviews, I keep hearing about the Microsoft Trackball Explorer. There are those who claim the Elecom Huge and the DEFT pro are built to be modern versions of that.
Is the Trackball Explorer really that good? How does it really compare with the HUGE and the Expert?

Offline knightjp

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Re: Elecom Huge vs Kensington Expert
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 13 March 2020, 04:50:47 »
After much deliberating, my HUGE arrived yesterday.
So far my experience is mixed. I think that my experience with the Slimblade has possibly ruined it for me OR maybe its just means adjusting to a new device.
The hand position of the Slimblade and the scrolling felt natural. Also while the extra buttons will give more features and functionality, I guess I understand why people like trackballs with less buttons like the CST L-Trac now.

The ball movement felt notchy at first. It was like the bearings weren't perfect spheres. The pointer would suddenly jump ahead and not be completely smooth. Now it seems perfectly fine and actually smoother than the movement of the Kensington.

The thumb scrolling takes a bit of getting used to and if someone needed to press and hold the left click and scroll, that would be tough thing to do. A button could be mapped for that... But that brings me to my next point. The Elecom "Mouse Assistant" software does not seem to work with  MacOS properly. I get it to start, it's all in Japanese and it just crashes or closes within seconds of use. I attempt to start it again and it just gives out errors.
Reddit users pointed me towards SteerMouse - another 3rd party app made in Japan that works well. Why doesn't Elecom hire these guys to do their software.
One of the reasons that I thought of getting the Elecom over the Kensington was to use the Gesture feature. Doesn't seem like that will be a possibility now.

Offline Larken

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Re: Elecom Huge vs Kensington Expert
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 16 March 2020, 06:48:26 »
Bought a Huge to use in the office, came from a Kensington Expert Mouse. Definitely prefer the Expert Mouse instead. The Huge sounds good in theory (with all the extra buttons) but using it just feels kinda frustrating compared to the Kensington.
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Offline knightjp

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Elecom Huge Review
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 25 March 2020, 14:11:55 »
Ok. I have been using the HUGE for about 10 days now. I feel that I can make a good comparison and review.

Pros:
  • The sheer number of buttons. You can map a button for literally anything.
  • The form factor. The way the device is laid out, is quite ergonomic. So many people have such a high regard for the MS Trackball Explorer that it has a sort of cult following. I didn't understand what was so great about the MS, but now seeing that the Elecom's design puts itself as a sort of modern successor, I get it now.
  • The foam pad is quite comfortable and the buttons are quite tactile in feel.

Cons:
  • The biggest con is the software for me. I guess the Windows version works well; according to reviews I have seen online. But I use MacOS. The software is definitely lacking. It pains me to have to shell out another few dollars for another app in order to get it to work right on MacOS; especially on a brand new device. The app "SteerMouse" is also done by a Japanese company, if I am not mistaken. I think that Elecom should hire these guys for their app development. It is so much better.
  • The scrolling does not feel as natural as the Kensington Slimblade or as I imagine the Expert would as well
  • Sometimes when you press a button, even though you hear and feel the click, nothing happens. It has been a bit unresponsive at times for multiple quick clicks. But overall, I do find it responsive.
  • Of course as with any foam padding, I am sure that you need to make sure that no sharp objects get to it.

All in all do I think that this would have the edge over the Kensington?
Yes and No. In terms of functionality, Yes. I use MacOS and having a dedicated button for "Mission Control" feels like I am using the magic trackpad and gestures.
In terms of comfort, I think No and that the Kensington will be more comfortable. The Kensington does feel more natural to operate; especially with the scrolling. However, given time, as muscle memory progresses, I do believe that this argument will lose merit and both will be on par with each other.


Offline jacethesaltsculptor

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Re: Elecom Huge vs Kensington Expert
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 25 March 2020, 23:32:24 »
Fun coincidence, I just got a Huge a few days back, and have been using the Kensington Expert.

I have to echo alot of knightjp's comments, he's spot on, the con that bothers me most is the scrolling feeling so bad.

Apparently it's a big thing online to talk about how the bearings in it are just sub-par and not even perfectly round. I can feel what they are on about. It feels like the bearings are VERY old (And this is right out of the box) or they are just really bad.

This makes the ball feel "sticky" like someone poured a soda in it and left it. It's not super sticky, but it makes precise movements hard.

I'm already getting use to it, but I ordered brand new bearings and am just doing what the guy in this video says to replace them:


I'm comfortable enough working in computers and laptops so this doesn't look particularly hard. And apparently the results are quite worth it.

I do think however that this is possibly the most comfortable ball mouse I've ever used, my hand is in ecstasy on it, this is why it didn't go right back in the box and back to Elecom.

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Offline Tom_Kazansky

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Re: Elecom Huge vs Kensington Expert
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 26 March 2020, 05:02:33 »
the "sticky" feel should go away after using it for a while (the DEFT Pro has this issue too)

I have to agree that the scrolling is bad  :)
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Offline jacethesaltsculptor

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Re: Elecom Huge vs Kensington Expert
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 26 March 2020, 10:15:44 »
the "sticky" feel should go away after using it for a while (the DEFT Pro has this issue too)

I have to agree that the scrolling is bad  :)

you know, I'm using it right now, and I am noticing that it's evening out, it's not as immediately bad as it was out of the package now.

The scrolling I upped with eithermouse and it helped it out alot. I have both that and Elecom installed, and together they make it okay.

I really wish there was an Open source utility that unified all Ball mice with really cool features. :( I also wish I had the time to write one.

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Offline knightjp

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Re: Elecom Huge vs Kensington Expert
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 26 March 2020, 14:51:47 »
I'm already getting use to it, but I ordered brand new bearings and am just doing what the guy in this video says to replace them:
I've seen this video. It is one of the reasons I picked the huge. It makes it easy to have instructions to be able to replace the bearings and where to find them.
This means that when the time comes that the current bearings fail, the Elecom will never need to be retired.

I do think however that this is possibly the most comfortable ball mouse I've ever used, my hand is in ecstasy on it, this is why it didn't go right back in the box and back to Elecom.
It took a while for my hand to adjust and for all the movements to become like second nature; which is how I define a trackball's ease of use. The Kensingtons, look more uncomfortable than the Elecom; but the truth is quite the opposite. While my hands adjusted to the Slimblade right out of the box, the Elecom needed some time.
But as I said earlier, it does feel more comfortable. I guess that is why the Kensingtons are rated higher than the Elecom on Trackballmouse.org

Now I do think that the HUGE is well worth the buy and to be honest, as I am using it, I am feeling that I would choose it over the Expert now. My next purchase would be another HUGE for the office - or maybe just a DEFT.

Offline jacethesaltsculptor

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Re: Elecom Huge vs Kensington Expert
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 26 March 2020, 22:37:08 »
I'm glad it exists as well, because it also functions as a good teardown video in case I ever need to do a deep clean in it. Which naturally will happen after a few years.

It was about a day before I remembered where the right click was instead of pressing Fn3. I debated just making them both right click, but am glad I persevered. Otherwise the other buttons took some time, I'm about a week-ish in now, and I'm really comfortable with it now.

I got the recommendation from /r/trackball on Reddit after reading through what was popular nowadays. I have an older Kensington expert mouse, which I bought after using one at work and falling in love with it.

I do miss the ring scroll, that was a really cool idea, and I keep trying to do that on the huge, but with the sensitivity turned up artificially high, the huge isn't too bad.

Also thanks for showing me trackballmouse.org, I'd never seen that before. I'm going to read through it quite a bit.  :)

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Offline knightjp

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Re: Elecom Huge vs Kensington Expert
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 27 March 2020, 04:37:51 »
I do miss the ring scroll, that was a really cool idea, and I keep trying to do that on the huge, but with the sensitivity turned up artificially high, the huge isn't too bad.
I miss the scrolling on the Slimblade. I was a fan of it. Genius of an idea IMO. Would still be using it and never would have tried the HUGE otherwise. The Slimblade's switches were its downfall for me.

Also thanks for showing me trackballmouse.org, I'd never seen that before. I'm going to read through it quite a bit.  :)
Be on the lookout for an idiot asking for a comparison in between the Expert and HUGE in the comments.  ;D :)) :rolleyes:

Offline jacethesaltsculptor

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Re: Elecom Huge vs Kensington Expert
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 27 March 2020, 17:50:11 »
I do miss the ring scroll, that was a really cool idea, and I keep trying to do that on the huge, but with the sensitivity turned up artificially high, the huge isn't too bad.
I miss the scrolling on the Slimblade. I was a fan of it. Genius of an idea IMO. Would still be using it and never would have tried the HUGE otherwise. The Slimblade's switches were its downfall for me.

Also thanks for showing me trackballmouse.org, I'd never seen that before. I'm going to read through it quite a bit.  :)
Be on the lookout for an idiot asking for a comparison in between the Expert and HUGE in the comments.  ;D :)) :rolleyes:

I've never used the Slimblade, so I'm not too familiar with it. I only discovered it existed about a month ago. My workplace is very pro-mouse, and everyone thinks it's bizarre I brought in a Kensington expert to use. Nevermind that everyone is getting into Mechanical keyboards.  :rolleyes: I really like the look of the slim.

Hey man, I don't know if it was you, but I'm glad people at least ask these questions. I'm amazed at how few people ever do. I'd want to know the results of that, and if no-one asked, I'd have been that guy. I'm glad I looked around for people asking, it got me into the idea of buying one, and now I'm quite happy with my elecom.

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Offline Namaste

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Re: Elecom Huge vs Kensington Expert
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 27 March 2020, 22:12:43 »
I have both the Huge and the Expert.

In short, I prefer the Expert.

However, I like to use trackballs in a fairly unusual way, whereby I manipulate the ball itself with my palm, not my fingers. The Huge doesn't permit this, so I struggle to be that accurate with it, even with the bearing upgrade (which is worth doing).

If you like to use your fingers on the ball, I actually think in most respects the Huge is better; more buttons, better button placement, better hand support. The trackball itself though does suffer from static friction, whereas the Expert's ball is silky smooth.

Also worth noting that the much maligned scroll ring on the Expert massively smooths out over time, at least in my experience.

Offline knightjp

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Re: Elecom Huge vs Kensington Expert
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 28 March 2020, 02:20:21 »
I have both the Huge and the Expert.

In short, I prefer the Expert.

However, I like to use trackballs in a fairly unusual way, whereby I manipulate the ball itself with my palm, not my fingers. The Huge doesn't permit this, so I struggle to be that accurate with it, even with the bearing upgrade (which is worth doing).

If you like to use your fingers on the ball, I actually think in most respects the Huge is better; more buttons, better button placement, better hand support. The trackball itself though does suffer from static friction, whereas the Expert's ball is silky smooth.

Also worth noting that the much maligned scroll ring on the Expert massively smooths out over time, at least in my experience.

I think that Kensington uses better bearings which make the balls really smooth right out of the box. The Elecom is smooth, but not as smooth as it could be.
The number of buttons and the options in the software are benefits of the Elecom over the Kensington. Having a dedicated button for Mission control on the Mac is really a game changer for me. Makes up for the scratchy and less comfortable scrolling.

Will my experience with the HUGE get better over time?
Well as I said before, I think it would. I do plan on replacing the bearings only when the current ones fail. So I expect that I would be using the HUGE for a long time (as long as its switches hold up compared to my experience with the Slimblade).

Offline jacethesaltsculptor

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Re: Elecom Huge vs Kensington Expert
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 28 March 2020, 12:22:33 »
Although my bearings have worn in and it's gotten quite a bit better over this week, I still ordered the bearings and plan on doing the mod today.

I'll see how it shakes out, and report back here.

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Offline Namaste

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Re: Elecom Huge vs Kensington Expert
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 28 March 2020, 13:03:23 »
I have both the Huge and the Expert.

In short, I prefer the Expert.

However, I like to use trackballs in a fairly unusual way, whereby I manipulate the ball itself with my palm, not my fingers. The Huge doesn't permit this, so I struggle to be that accurate with it, even with the bearing upgrade (which is worth doing).

If you like to use your fingers on the ball, I actually think in most respects the Huge is better; more buttons, better button placement, better hand support. The trackball itself though does suffer from static friction, whereas the Expert's ball is silky smooth.

Also worth noting that the much maligned scroll ring on the Expert massively smooths out over time, at least in my experience.

I think that Kensington uses better bearings which make the balls really smooth right out of the box. The Elecom is smooth, but not as smooth as it could be.
The number of buttons and the options in the software are benefits of the Elecom over the Kensington. Having a dedicated button for Mission control on the Mac is really a game changer for me. Makes up for the scratchy and less comfortable scrolling.

Will my experience with the HUGE get better over time?
Well as I said before, I think it would. I do plan on replacing the bearings only when the current ones fail. So I expect that I would be using the HUGE for a long time (as long as its switches hold up compared to my experience with the Slimblade).

Regardless of the bearing upgrade it never gets as smooth as the Expert. Despite the bearings I've put in the Huge being now much higher quality than the ones in the Expert. I think it must be something to do with either trackball itself or the housings that the bearings sit in. The Expert's ball feels glossier and less sticky to touch, the Huge's ball feels dryer. I'm not talking about one being greasier or anything I'm on about the actual surface textures.

Ultimately I don't find the Huge too bad for web browsing and things with new bearings, but for anything more precise (photoshop and CAD in my case) it's nearly unusable.

Offline knightjp

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Re: Elecom Huge vs Kensington Expert
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 30 March 2020, 02:41:28 »
For me, I don't find the ball movement of the HUGE bad. It is not as smooth as the Kensington, but it is smooth. 
At this point, I am still not a 100 percent convinced on the scrolling location, but I am considering the fact that the form factor of the HUGE maybe superior due to the fact that it does have more easily accessible buttons.
In time I suppose that the scrolling might become second nature and then the HUGE will be pretty much perfect.