Author Topic: Why does apple design such bad mice?  (Read 4018 times)

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Offline Sintpinty

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Why does apple design such bad mice?
« on: Thu, 21 February 2019, 14:26:55 »
Why does apple design the worst mice in existence? It's so bad that i just want to use the keyboard and the keyboard only. Do they want customers to go back to their old ways when computers didn't even have mice?

Let's not forget that nasty puck mouse that they made worse.

Offline rowdy

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"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline Findecanor

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Re: Why does apple design such bad mice?
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 21 February 2019, 19:55:06 »
I can imagine that you don't like the flat abominations that are "Magic Mouse" or the "Magic Mouse 2".

I remember the predecessor Apple Pro Mouse and Apple Mighty Mouse (trademark infringement) to feel pretty good for clicking the one button. The tiny scrollball on the latter was too small to be useful though.

Apple also use a weird acceleration curve by default. Most third-party mice for Mac come with macOS drivers that set this right: Any mouse would feel bad on Mac without it.
I have not tried, but maybe an Apple mouse would feel better when connected to a Windows or Linux machine where the HID class driver does not suck.
Man must shape his tools lest they shape him
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Why does apple design such bad mice?
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 21 February 2019, 20:54:10 »
Why does apple design the worst mice in existence? It's so bad that i just want to use the keyboard and the keyboard only. Do they want customers to go back to their old ways when computers didn't even have mice?

Let's not forget that nasty puck mouse that they made worse.
Gestures!
They solve everything, why are you not using them? I mean, we only have 27 of them for you to learn in order to use your computer, it's as easy as swiping your finger! Or 5, or ten!


Honestly though, Apple has always HATED the mouse even though they were the ones to commercialize it.
They saw it as intuitive, but confusing, hence only having one button so as not to confuse the operator. Why having two mouse buttons is bad but 56 gestures is good I have no idea, but that's Apple's line of thinking. This thinking gets more strange when you consider they refuse to put a touch screen on their computers but are willing to sell you a large touchpad.

You know those uber expensive watches? You know "17 jewels, Swiss movement, made by master craftsman"... Does anyone actually need such a watch? No, you can buy a Casio that is more accurate for a fraction of the price. That's what Apple is to personal computing, it's a luxury computer meant to look really pretty first and function second, though I'm not sure functionality even ranks second on their list of priorities anymore.
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Offline Findecanor

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Re: Why does apple design such bad mice?
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 21 February 2019, 21:37:55 »
You know those uber expensive watches? You know "17 jewels, Swiss movement, made by master craftsman"... Does anyone actually need such a watch? No, you can buy a Casio that is more accurate for a fraction of the price. That's what Apple is to personal computing, it's a luxury computer meant to look really pretty first and function second, though I'm not sure functionality even ranks second on their list of priorities anymore.
I don't think that's an apt comparison. Some Swiss mechanical watches are more like mechanical keyboards: built to last a very long time: heirlooms to be passed down through generations. And there is some serious engineering in them, some running on the energy of the wearer's movement, not needing to be winded at all. The strive for excellence both outside and within, with timeless design.

Apple's machines are trendy, made to last until just after the warranty runs out.
And Apple makes expensive watches ó so we can make a direct comparison here. They have fixed batteries that can't be changed and need to be charged every few days. The first generation of Apple watches is already obsoleted, and can't get firmware updates.
Man must shape his tools lest they shape him
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Offline Coreda

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Re: Why does apple design such bad mice?
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 21 February 2019, 21:55:40 »
I don't think that's an apt comparison. Some Swiss mechanical watches are more like mechanical keyboards: built to last a very long time: heirlooms to be passed down through generations. And there is some serious engineering in them, some running on the energy of the wearer's movement, not needing to be winded at all. The strive for excellence both outside and within, with timeless design.

Also higher end mechanical watches do indeed keep more accurate time over cheap ones but we're talking seconds or minutes over time. Do I care though? Not really. I think in many ways watches are now more fashion/jewelry than necessary given smart devices which combined most common tech hardware into one (which I say as someone who used to wear mechanical autos).

Apple's machines are trendy, made to last until just after the warranty runs out.

Can't speak for their newer models but all of the Jobs-era machines I own lasted waaaay past that. Had a number of iMacs and two Macbooks, including a 2010 MBP I later gave to a family member for basic things with a replaced SSD drive, memory and the latest OS (which they still support officially). Still doing well. It's a shame Apple have transitioned away from user-replaceable and repairable hardware though since then.
« Last Edit: Thu, 21 February 2019, 21:58:06 by Coreda »

Offline AJM

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Re: Why does apple design such bad mice?
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 22 February 2019, 06:56:54 »
....
I have not tried, but maybe an Apple mouse would feel better when connected to a Windows or Linux machine where the HID class driver does not suck.

No.  ;D
I tried a Mighty Mouse on a Windows computer and even with the highest speed setting the mouse cursor was way too slow.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Why does apple design such bad mice?
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 22 February 2019, 08:52:59 »
Can't speak for their newer models but all of the Jobs-era machines I own lasted waaaay past that.
Yeah, I might have exaggerated there. I have not seen any numbers.
I might have watched too many Louis Rossman videos ... but some of the things he showed of recent machines were scary.

The 2010 MBP were indeed good machines.
Man must shape his tools lest they shape him
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Offline Timbersawdust

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Re: Why does apple design such bad mice?
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 25 February 2019, 09:54:33 »
Why does apple design the worst mice in existence? It's so bad that i just want to use the keyboard and the keyboard only. Do they want customers to go back to their old ways when computers didn't even have mice?

Let's not forget that nasty puck mouse that they made worse.
Gestures!
They solve everything, why are you not using them? I mean, we only have 27 of them for you to learn in order to use your computer, it's as easy as swiping your finger! Or 5, or ten!


Honestly though, Apple has always HATED the mouse even though they were the ones to commercialize it.
They saw it as intuitive, but confusing, hence only having one button so as not to confuse the operator. Why having two mouse buttons is bad but 56 gestures is good I have no idea, but that's Apple's line of thinking. This thinking gets more strange when you consider they refuse to put a touch screen on their computers but are willing to sell you a large touchpad.

You know those uber expensive watches? You know "17 jewels, Swiss movement, made by master craftsman"... Does anyone actually need such a watch? No, you can buy a Casio that is more accurate for a fraction of the price. That's what Apple is to personal computing, it's a luxury computer meant to look really pretty first and function second, though I'm not sure functionality even ranks second on their list of priorities anymore.

Yet people still buy up all Apple products like their the greatest things ever made. Some of their products are good, but most of them are, like you said, something that looks nice and functionality takes the back seat. That way they can get people who are less educated with technology to hop on board...

Offline iKevinFtw

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Re: Why does apple design such bad mice?
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 07 March 2019, 13:07:11 »
I don't think that's an apt comparison. Some Swiss mechanical watches are more like mechanical keyboards: built to last a very long time: heirlooms to be passed down through generations. And there is some serious engineering in them, some running on the energy of the wearer's movement, not needing to be winded at all. The strive for excellence both outside and within, with timeless design.

Also higher end mechanical watches do indeed keep more accurate time over cheap ones but we're talking seconds or minutes over time. Do I care though? Not really. I think in many ways watches are now more fashion/jewelry than necessary given smart devices which combined most common tech hardware into one (which I say as someone who used to wear mechanical autos).

Apple's machines are trendy, made to last until just after the warranty runs out.

Can't speak for their newer models but all of the Jobs-era machines I own lasted waaaay past that. Had a number of iMacs and two Macbooks, including a 2010 MBP I later gave to a family member for basic things with a replaced SSD drive, memory and the latest OS (which they still support officially). Still doing well. It's a shame Apple have transitioned away from user-replaceable and repairable hardware though since then.

My 2015 Macbook pro is still running like a dream, and my 2010 one is still used daily by my mother after I added an SSD in there.
Haych Haych Kay Bee Pro 2

Offline Sintpinty

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Re: Why does apple design such bad mice?
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 07 March 2019, 14:06:43 »
Not necessarily the hardware itself, just the butterfly switches and external mice and touch pads that i/we don't like..