Author Topic: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic  (Read 6002 times)

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Offline nu_types

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[IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« on: Sat, 13 February 2021, 15:10:30 »


I wanted a BoW Cherry-like PBT keyset that had Cyrillic only alphas and Russian modifiers. Not much more to it than that. Not going to make up something about being inspired by the color of a flag or some bs. Also please note, while the kitting and design for this set is mostly complete, I will not focus on this set until I am comfortable with where ePBT 6085 is at.

IC FORM
FEEDBACK FORM FOR NATIVE RUSSIAN SPEAKERS



Kits:
The kitting for this set is a little different. I wanted to give people the option to pick and choose what alpha/modifier combinations they want while also keeping the kitting intuitive and viable from a logistics standpoint.






Renders:



THRILL by Hoodrow Thrillson


Untitled WKL 60% by Marco


i69 by Illuminati Keyboards / Ion Keyboards


Colors:

This set will be using ePBT's bright white color. Please refer to ai03's ModernJA to get an idea of what it will look like. Legends and accents will use the same black color as ePBT 6085.


Collaborations:
Maybe. It's black and white, not a lot that hasn't already been done. I am open to artisan collabs if they want to do something unique for this set.


General info

UPDATES AVAILABLE IN THE SECOND POST

Vendors:
KBDfans (the rest are TBD)

Pricing: TBD

GB Date: TBD - Likely late Q3 or early Q4

Oh, I also have a discord: https://discord.gg/9Bx8US7TBR

Honorable Mentions / Credits:
  • T0mb3ry for giving me the go-ahead to use SA Yuri as a reference for the majority of the Russian modifiers.
  • Konstantin for his invaluable feedback and suggestions early on in the design.
  • This Deskthority thread that I used as a reference for some of the modifier keys.
  • Marco - thank you again for the renders. Amazing work as usual. Marco's socials: Instagram | Twitter

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« Last Edit: Sat, 20 February 2021, 15:21:03 by nu_types »

Offline nu_types

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 13 February 2021, 15:11:16 »
Reserved

Offline MIGHTY CHICKEN

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 13 February 2021, 15:12:04 »
Clean, GLWIC

Offline noodleman

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 13 February 2021, 15:45:52 »
very naissss

Offline hkiri

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 13 February 2021, 15:46:17 »
sure, why not.

Offline Qarmaa

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 13 February 2021, 16:20:54 »
ne proper cyrillic legends avail

Offline nu_types

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 13 February 2021, 16:22:46 »
ne proper cyrillic legends avail

May I ask what's wrong with the legends? I'm not using OG cherry legends by choice. They are wrong.

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 13 February 2021, 17:04:27 »
We ain't posing for no pictures in 2018  :confused:
its ok

i69 render always appreciated
« Last Edit: Sat, 13 February 2021, 18:32:16 by treeleaf64 »
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Offline Qarmaa

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 13 February 2021, 17:26:54 »
ne proper cyrillic legends avail

May I ask what's wrong with the legends? I'm not using OG cherry legends by choice. They are wrong.
I was refering to legends outlined by T0mb3ry, those are correct ones (see GMK Perestroika/GMK Yuri). The thing is your subs using different font than latin legends. That threw me off. In terms of russian mods: they was made for typewriter and make no sense on the modern keyboards at all. It's bad idea to make it from a beginning. They fit SA (cause they are all caps and cause of profile/throwback to era of typewriters stuff) but doesn't fit cherry-ish profile at all.

I mean, I get that most of the people would buy this just for looks, they don't care about how accurate legends/font/etc but I just can't bear with it.
« Last Edit: Sat, 13 February 2021, 22:13:59 by Qarmaa »

Offline yenel

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 13 February 2021, 17:28:50 »
Please consider adding an additional tab in one of the child kits! An additional tab would allow people to reuse the leftover mods + another alpha kit to fill out another (small, 60-65%) board.
I would suggest adding it to the accent kit, since you also need another Enter key to do that.
Also, light suggestion to consider using OG Icon style mods.

Other than that, beautiful, GLWIC

Offline Prestley

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 13 February 2021, 19:16:15 »
I'm really digging this set.

Offline Chippy

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 13 February 2021, 22:51:21 »
refreshing to see nice Cyrillic legends
This and the swiss cheese keyboard is the next generation of keyboards

Offline nu_types

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 13 February 2021, 23:34:37 »
ne proper cyrillic legends avail

May I ask what's wrong with the legends? I'm not using OG cherry legends by choice. They are wrong.
I was refering to legends outlined by T0mb3ry, those are correct ones (see GMK Perestroika/GMK Yuri). The thing is your subs using different font than latin legends. That threw me off. In terms of russian mods: they was made for typewriter and make no sense on the modern keyboards at all. It's bad idea to make it from a beginning. They fit SA (cause they are all caps and cause of profile/throwback to era of typewriters stuff) but doesn't fit cherry-ish profile at all.

I mean, I get that most of the people would buy this just for looks, they don't care about how accurate legends/font/etc but I just can't bear with it.

So to be clear, the main issue with the legends is the typeface used for some of the Cyrillic characters? I'm guessing the К and Я keys are the main ones that stick out since they don't match the K and R keys? I can go through the legends and attempt to fix them if it's really that off-putting. I can understand why some may not want the Russian modifiers, but it's something I personally wanted. This is why I am offering icon mods as well.

Please consider adding an additional tab in one of the child kits! An additional tab would allow people to reuse the leftover mods + another alpha kit to fill out another (small, 60-65%) board.
I would suggest adding it to the accent kit, since you also need another Enter key to do that.
Also, light suggestion to consider using OG Icon style mods.

Other than that, beautiful, GLWIC

I'll think this over,  but it it'll likely be a no. I don't really want to add duplicate keys if they will only be utilized in some specific use case. I already structured the alphas in such a way so they could be used in combination with modifiers from a completely different set for a 60% or 65% if someone really wanted to. OG icon mods are a no, sorry. I get that some people prefer them, but I'm content with these.

Offline Dunne

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 14 February 2021, 05:49:07 »
Are you confident EPBT won't have warping issues with this set, since they have with recently sets? (one of my EPBT sets has a spacebar that is basically a banana)

Offline nu_types

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 14 February 2021, 07:38:02 »
Are you confident EPBT won't have warping issues with this set, since they have with recently sets? (one of my EPBT sets has a spacebar that is basically a banana)

From what I've personally seen, yes: https://imgur.com/a/OMSO0Eh

Of of curiosity, what recent sets have you had/seen warping with?

Offline yenel

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 14 February 2021, 15:12:36 »
I'll think this over,  but it it'll likely be a no. I don't really want to add duplicate keys if they will only be utilized in some specific use case.

I know what you mean by it being a specific use case. I don't have any hard statistics to back it up and I'm sorry if this is a slippery slope or some other fallacy, but I think that an additional Tab is no more specific than something like F13, small(er) spacebars in base, 660 2.25u shift, or the Macro column kits.

I already structured the alphas in such a way so they could be used in combination with modifiers from a completely different set for a 60% or 65% if someone really wanted to.
In terms of compatibility, there aren't that many other ePBT keysets that use that color (color-matched WS2 I'm assuming) - modernja, gok bow, & upcoming bow hangul afaik. And even if you used them together with those (or any other) sets, it still wouldn't solve the problem that an additional tab would: making use of all the leftover mods left in the modifier kit(s). You'd just be left with more mods.

This concept is common with GMK sets that offer alternate alpha kits and extended compatibility - I'm not sure how it is with ePBT, but I feel like it if it can be done with GMK, then it can be done (maybe even better) with ePBT.

I get that it's kind of complicated since you're offering two styles of mods; there're probably a lot of variables to think about. Maybe I'm overstretching my assumptions.
Whatever happens I'm in. I just hope my ted talk gives some more insight and hopefully influences your decision.

Offline yoniwolf1202

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 15 February 2021, 16:18:28 »
Looks great, can't wait to watch it come into reality. :thumb:

Offline _senya

  • Posts: 38
Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 15 February 2021, 20:05:46 »
Not only the font, but also some of the labels used for modifiers are not correct in terms of what they say if you try to mimic old Cyrillic keyboards. For example, Нчл and Кнц (Home and End) on the old keyboards I saw were saying НАЧ and КОН (short from Начало and Конец), Алт should have been АЛФ, etc. But nonetheless - I would prefer you left it as is, I really love how these things look like - all these "Забой", "Ввод", "Регистр", "Заглавные" - are just beautiful (in the exact font you have it in, with infographic where applicable), even though not technically authentic. If on top of that you price it well, I would be definitely buying it.
« Last Edit: Mon, 15 February 2021, 20:08:44 by _senya »

Offline nu_types

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 15 February 2021, 20:45:49 »
I'll think this over,  but it it'll likely be a no. I don't really want to add duplicate keys if they will only be utilized in some specific use case.

I know what you mean by it being a specific use case. I don't have any hard statistics to back it up and I'm sorry if this is a slippery slope or some other fallacy, but I think that an additional Tab is no more specific than something like F13, small(er) spacebars in base, 660 2.25u shift, or the Macro column kits.

I already structured the alphas in such a way so they could be used in combination with modifiers from a completely different set for a 60% or 65% if someone really wanted to.
In terms of compatibility, there aren't that many other ePBT keysets that use that color (color-matched WS2 I'm assuming) - modernja, gok bow, & upcoming bow hangul afaik. And even if you used them together with those (or any other) sets, it still wouldn't solve the problem that an additional tab would: making use of all the leftover mods left in the modifier kit(s). You'd just be left with more mods.

This concept is common with GMK sets that offer alternate alpha kits and extended compatibility - I'm not sure how it is with ePBT, but I feel like it if it can be done with GMK, then it can be done (maybe even better) with ePBT.

I get that it's kind of complicated since you're offering two styles of mods; there're probably a lot of variables to think about. Maybe I'm overstretching my assumptions.
Whatever happens I'm in. I just hope my ted talk gives some more insight and hopefully influences your decision.

I understand that adding the extra tab would allow some specific 65% or smaller layouts to be used in conjunction with something like a TKL. If I did add it, it would likely be to the accent kit. I'll continue to think this over.


Not only the font, but also some of the labels used for modifiers are not correct in terms of what they say if you try to mimic old Cyrillic keyboards. For example, Нчл and Кнц (Home and End) on the old keyboards I saw were saying НАЧ and КОН (short from Начало and Конец), Алт should have been АЛФ, etc. But nonetheless - I would prefer you left it as is, I really love how these things look like - all these "Забой", "Ввод", "Регистр", "Заглавные" - are just beautiful (in the exact font you have it in, with infographic where applicable), even though not technically authentic. If on top of that you price it well, I would be definitely buying it.

I used T0mb3ry's SA Yuri Cyrillic kit as a reference for most of my mods. As you pointed out, some of the legends don't match that of Soviet era boards. I trust T0mb3ry on his work, since he is Russian, however, I have other native Russian speakers that have different options on some of the legends. For instance, it was brought up that Забой literally translates to "slaughter" and they don't really like it's usage there, however, another native Russian speaker stated here that they prefer it to ВШ which was more common on older boards. I'm not necessarily looking to mimic old soviet era boards, I'd actually prefer to produce something more useful to a modern native Russian speaker if that's even possible. I've also had it mentioned to me that since some of the keys are abbreviated, they should be capitalized, and made the point that I should perhaps even make them all abbreviated. On top of that they had some critiques for the Cyrillic alphas characters that I'm currently attempting to fix.

So there's quite a bit I need to address, I'd like to get more feedback on the modifiers, though.
« Last Edit: Mon, 15 February 2021, 20:48:52 by nu_types »

Offline _senya

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 15 February 2021, 22:17:26 »
I wouldn't worry about "Забой" - this word has multiple meanings, and slaughter (of animals is not the first that comes to mind). ВШ definitely sounds worse than "Забой". Please don't change it. :) And even though some labels are abbreviations, the non-capitalized style makes it looks prettier, so this set is quite unique in that sense. I am a native Russian speaker and I love it with these styles. I am afraid that if you address all those "concerns" the set will lose its charm. I can assess that the way it is now (with respects to fonts and wordings) it is very useful.

Offline Domantas

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 18 February 2021, 05:24:00 »
Why Cyrillic not red?

LEOPOLD FC660C


Offline Joaquox

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 18 February 2021, 06:46:31 »
The 40s/ortho kit needs arrows, not everyone wants accent nav.

Offline nu_types

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 20 February 2021, 15:15:18 »
Why Cyrillic not red?

I wanted a simple black on white set.

The 40s/ortho kit needs arrows, not everyone wants accent nav.

40s users would still need a modifier kit.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

On another note, I've revised the Cyrillic alphas to fix some of the issues Qarmaa had with the original typeface. I will be updating the main template soon with these changes. Also, I posted this google form to the MechCult community to get feedback from native Russian speakers. I'm sharing it here too just in case. Please consider filling out this form if you speak Russian as a first language - it is very important to me that the Russian modifier keys are practical, rather than just pretty modifiers in a different language.

Offline azzipa

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 28 April 2021, 09:34:53 »
your epbt 6085 set looks great, and now i'm looking forward to this set coming back to life!

as an occasional numpad user i appreciate that you included "=" key. i'm also digging the macro keys and i'm hopeful you might add R4 M3/Φ3 - would be great to use in top row above nav cluster. (as is, i appreciate the option for single and double column macro keys.)


edit: nm, i will use Φ-row from modifiers, i missed that. nice kitting  :thumb:
« Last Edit: Thu, 29 April 2021, 00:20:51 by azzipa »

Offline see

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 29 April 2021, 13:32:40 »
so lit

take my ****ing money

Offline Iksion

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 29 April 2021, 14:52:22 »
Interested :thumb:
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Offline HappyB0T

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 30 April 2021, 08:41:59 »
I find my expect the additional kits. Iíll be good for a couple of the different smaller kits.  GLWIC

Offline azzipa

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Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 30 April 2021, 09:08:59 »
it's a little thing: macro kits have duplicate R4 keys for M1/Φ1.

i suppose this could potentially be a positive to provide coverage for 2 boards, however i haven't seen this in the few other sets that offered dual column macro kits.

Offline Engedi_

  • Posts: 41
Re: [IC] ePBT BoW Cyrillic
« Reply #28 on: Sat, 01 May 2021, 15:31:43 »
Loooove this classic design