New Controller for KishSaver and Other Model F

[wcass]

A new controller is working in a few different keyboards now; KishSaver and 122. It should also work for other IBM F type keyboards that use the 30-pin connected controllers such as the Unsaver, AT, and the 50 key. The XT and Model C have controllers built on the same PCB as the matrix, so it would not work on these without significant changes. It is called the DPH controller after the developers; dfj, Parak, and HaTaa. It is based on dfj’s design that he talked about back in August of 2011. Parak is doing PCB design and HaTaa is coding. The development is currently in ALPHA. Once it is out of Beta, there will be a group buy. I’ll do my best to answer questions while those guys work on the controller.

There are a few Model F keyboards working with this controller right now, but it currently requires an oscilloscope to tune each board (I did say this is ALPHA, right). HaTaa is working on “automatic threshold leveling” to fix that. A user interface for key mapping and macros is not done yet, so that must be done in the source. Windows and OSX compile of code are untested. If you are an EE or coder with an oscilloscope and want to get involved, ask me about getting a PCB. You can see the LGPL source code at …
https://gitorious.org/kiibohd-controller/capsense-beta/

PCB info to come.

So I have some questions for the folks reading this … do you expect to get one from a group buy (KishSaver buyers – I’m looking at you) and how would you like to get it (bare PCB, bare PCB and parts, assembled but un-programmed, or “can I ship you my board and have someone just make it work for me?”

[snoopy]

I would love to get the pcb in something like a groupbuy. (sending the kishsaver internationally to get it converted would be a pain).

If assembled or not depends on the parts used. I can solder normal stuff.... but smd.... no... I once tried.... it worked, but didn't look good. Wouldn't do it again with the equipment I currently have. So unassembled + parts would be ok, if the parts are easy to solder. If not, I would prefer an assembled pcb.

Really looking forward to this.

[codyeatworld]

I'm up for any type of assembly, although I'd prefer if smd components were already soldered onto the pcb.

Awesome work so far.

[kishy]

You'd better believe I'd be in for one.

Possibly 3...I do have 3 of the 4 versions of the board. And actually a 4th sitting in a box too. Cost will determine how many more than one I buy.

If it's all through-hole and we're talking about an easy-to-program microcontroller such as the Teensy (e.g. no external burner required), I like a complete unassembled kit. If there's any surface mount stuff I'd be asking for pre-assembled.

Also - I do not have access to an oscilloscope, certainly to the dismay of dfj who's been telling me to get one for the last 3 years, but that does mean I would need something "self-calibrating" in that sense.

[The_Beast]

I'd love something that is pre-soldered and pre-programmed but I can SMD and through hole solder as long as there is a for idiots guide to programming the thing.


I'm also sure I could find an oscilloscope on campus, but I'd need an idiots guide to that too

[HPE1000]

If its SMD then I want predone, if its through hole then I can do it.

[JPG]

Hum, does it mean that there would be a possibility to build a 100% (or like 90%) new model F?

Let's say we make a new case and plate(s) and salvage the switches from an existing F and add this pcb?

Let me dream!

[wcass]

Hum, does it mean that there would be a possibility to build a 100% (or like 90%) new model F?

Let's say we make a new case and plate(s) and salvage the switches from an existing F and add this pcb?

Let me dream!

there will be a test of this - check my next post.

[wcass]

PCB development is here:
https://gitorious.org/ibm-capsense-pcb

All of the prototype boards have been through hole, but many of the IC components that IBM used are no longer available so multiple discrete chips have been substituted. Chip count is about 50 compared to IBM’s 25’ish. Cramming all that into less than 10 square inches is challenging enough. But this project was originally started to create a replacement controller for all IBM capacitive keyboards, each with its own “keep-out” areas. Respecting all of those may require further miniaturization, so the final design might be surface mount. In any case, I’ll try adapting my XTant project (XT case with new key layout) to use this controller too. Economics of scale.

About those keep-out areas, let’s take a look at the original controller in the Kishsaver case. This first picture has the controller and key assembly mounted to the top cover (flipped over). All cables attach to the top side of the PCB (hidden).


The next pictures are of the right side of the controller (middle of the keyboard). You can see the 3 pin header that goes to the daughter board. The USB cable is thrown in only for size comparison.


And left side of the controller (left side of case).


You can see that there is no room for a standard USB cable exiting to the back of the case. It also looks like the sides above the controller mount screws are a bad choice because there is just not enough room for the USB jack. There does appear to be room on the left and right sides below the mount screws on both the top and bottom of the board for a mini or micro USB jack. All of the above is assuming that the USB jack is at the edge of the PCB. An issue with putting the USB jack in the interior is that it would require additional clearance which is not as abundant on the Kishsaver as on other IBM’s. There is slightly more room on the top than on the bottom. There would of course be room for non-traditional USB connections such as direct wire-to-board or double-row bent pin (like the original controller).

By the way, I will be posting both here and at Deskthority. I'm getting questions from both communities and will deliver updates and answers to both.

[vivalarevolución]

I am interested in this.  A controller with as many things presoldered and preassembled or whatever is what I would prefer.

[joneslee85]

This is nice. Can't wait to buy this

[Wildcard]

Very cool!

[Aer Fixus]

Wonderful to see it installed in a board.

I'll have to participate in the Beta when auto-calibration is implemented... I can live without a UI, but I don't have an oscilloscope.

[kishy]

Wonderful to see it installed in a board.

That's the original controller, he's just showing it for dimensions/clearance reasons.

[Aer Fixus]

Wonderful to see it installed in a board.

That's the original controller, he's just showing it for dimensions/clearance reasons.

Silly me. I saw the USB cord and didn't read the post thoroughly to see it was for size comparison...

[dorkvader]

Silly me. I saw the USB cord and didn't read the post thoroughly to see it was for size comparison...

while that is indeed the original controller, I believe a 4704 kb has a prototype controller installed in it for testing.

There are a few Model F keyboards working with this controller right now, but it currently requires an oscilloscope to tune each board (I did say this is ALPHA, right). HaTaa is working on “automatic threshold leveling” to fix that.

I am, of course, very interested in this project.

edit: image of 4704-200 "kishsaver" kb in testing:

[vivalarevolución]

my kishsaver sitting there starring at me every day makes waiting the hardest part.

[Aer Fixus]

my kishsaver sitting there starring at me every day makes waiting the hardest part.

Ayup.

[MOZ]

Yeah, I'm definitely interested, preassembled or DIY kit.

[semyorka]

Definitely interested in this for a 122-key.  DIY PCB is OK with me, I have access to a solder reflow oven for SMD 

[dorkvader]

Definitely interested in this for a 122-key.  DIY PCB is OK with me, I have access to a solder reflow oven for SMD 

Welcome to Geekhack!

It's always nice to hear of other users being so well-equipped! Nevertheless, for the first revision at least, we want to make it easy to assemble, if possible.

[wcass]

Just an update ...

HaaTa is still working on "auto-tuning" (so that a oscilloscope is not needed) and building/improving the user interface. The latest version of the PCB took a while to come from the manufacturer. Test fit in a KS works, but is not as good as they would like it to be, so there will probably be another revision. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13176014@N03/11895955434/

[vivalarevolución]

Just an update ...

HaaTa is still working on "auto-tuning" (so that a oscilloscope is not needed) and building/improving the user interface. The latest version of the PCB took a while to come from the manufacturer. Test fit in a KS works, but is not as good as they would like it to be, so there will probably be another revision. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13176014@N03/11895955434/

Good to know.  For the people that are working to make this a reality, thank you for existing.

[HPE1000]

I honestly keep forgetting I even own this kishsaver day to day because I just have it in my closet stored away until we get these things running so I don't get so impatient. This is good news, I can't wait until this is done 

[berserkfan]

well done!

too bad I don't have a Kishsaver, heh.

[dgreekstallion]

Oh. My. God. This is so freaking exciting.

[jdcarpe]

Anyone need a Teensy++ 2.0 or two? I'm placing a group order for Teensy 2.0s, and I might be able to save us a bit on the Teensy++ 2.0 if we order 25+ of them. If there is immediate interest, I can order them with the Teensys I'm buying now (payment deadline Feb 21). I would be in for 2, and there are orders for 2 more in the current GB. So...21 more, anyone??

Link to TEENSY 2.0 GROUP BUY ROUND 2

[CPTBadAss]

Not sure if you're counting me but I submitted my order for a Teensy++ 2.0 last night.

[jdcarpe]

Not sure if you're counting me but I submitted my order for a Teensy++ 2.0 last night.

I would never not count you.

[wcass]

An interesting developments; Hasu managed to to find a hidden "feature" of the native Kishsaver controller. He found that you can send a command to the controller that tells it to send break codes for ALL keys. This discovery means that a converter is a valid option for Kishsaver owners.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54706.0

[wcass]

Before you ask, yes those are Teensy++ mounted upside down.

[vivalarevolución]

Before you ask, yes those are Teensy++ mounted upside down.

Show Image

Gorgeous.  Not sure how I could thank those that are working on this project.  If you get me your address before Easter, I'll send you an Easter ham.

[The_Beast]

Looks like a fun soldering project!

[HPE1000]

 

Awesome 

[snoopy]

Nice!

[mashby]

I am just in awe of the collective talent that exists here at GH. Just amazing.

[vivalarevolución]

Just a general question about this controller:  will it be able to work with other versions of the Model F besides the Kishsaver?  I am asking in case I come across another Model F that needs a new controller.

[wcass]

Just a general question about this controller:  will it be able to work with other versions of the Model F besides the Kishsaver?  I am asking in case I come across another Model F that needs a new controller.

That's the plan.

Most of the Model F controllers (KS, AT, unsaver, and 122) share the same basic PCB and components. The big difference between the controllers is the firmware; each to support its matrix and intended host computer. All controllers have the same mount holes and 30 through holes to connect .156" pitch ribbon cable in one of two places - depending on controller model. The DPH controller has through holes at both ribbon cable mount points so it can be used as a replacement controller for any of these models. It will also be USB and allow you to define your own matrix.

[Pacifist]

Just a general question about this controller:  will it be able to work with other versions of the Model F besides the Kishsaver?  I am asking in case I come across another Model F that needs a new controller.

That's the plan.

Most of the Model F controllers (KS, AT, unsaver, and 122) share the same basic PCB and components. The big difference between the controllers is the firmware; each to support its matrix and intended host computer. All controllers have the same mount holes and 30 through holes to connect .156" pitch ribbon cable in one of two places - depending on controller model. The DPH controller has through holes at both ribbon cable mount points so it can be used as a replacement controller for any of these models. It will also be USB and allow you to define your own matrix.

Sweeet! Can't wait for it to be done for other F's

[dorkvader]

Just a general question about this controller:  will it be able to work with other versions of the Model F besides the Kishsaver?  I am asking in case I come across another Model F that needs a new controller.

That's the plan.

Most of the Model F controllers (KS, AT, unsaver, and 122) share the same basic PCB and components. The big difference between the controllers is the firmware; each to support its matrix and intended host computer. All controllers have the same mount holes and 30 through holes to connect .156" pitch ribbon cable in one of two places - depending on controller model. The DPH controller has through holes at both ribbon cable mount points so it can be used as a replacement controller for any of these models. It will also be USB and allow you to define your own matrix.

note that the xt and "bigfoot" model f keyboards have the controller on the same PCB as the switch matrix, so it's not likely you will be able to use this controller for those keyboards.

[hwood34]

Any updates?

[Techno Trousers]

Yes, please!

[wcass]

Haata has got the user interface working. He said that he would be working on “key mapping stuff” this weekend. Auto-calibration is still a ways off, so even with this progress you would still need a scope to “tune” the controller.

All three guys are looking forward toward the ARM architecture used on the Teensy 3. These chips have more speed, power, and functionality; cost less, and are easier to source than the chips used on the Teensy++. Moving to the new chip will cut the number of discrete components – perhaps very significantly. The Teensy++ version of the controller has about 250 through holes in less than 10 square inches so it can be a challenging build even for an experienced assembler.

[JPG]

Once this is working, is there any plan to make a full pcb (with sensors and all)?


Like a new space-unsaver pcb for example?


Let me dream 

[dorkvader]

Once this is working, is there any plan to make a full pcb (with sensors and all)?


Like a new space-unsaver pcb for example?


Let me dream 

absolutely. The end goal would be all-modern model F before they run out completely. Though I would think a standard SSK PCB would be better.

[JPG]

Once this is working, is there any plan to make a full pcb (with sensors and all)?


Like a new space-unsaver pcb for example?


Let me dream 

absolutely. The end goal would be all-modern model F before they run out completely. Though I would think a standard SSK PCB would be better.

I would be happy with an ssk, but since using an F122, the left functions and the terminal look with the F1-F24 keys has grown on me. I only find the numpad to make it too large and annoying to have my mouse so far, but the unsaver would be perfect for me! Yet an F-SSK would do the job 

[CPTBadAss]

Before you ask, yes those are Teensy++ mounted upside down.

Show Image

Gorgeous.  Not sure how I could thank those that are working on this project.  If you get me your address before Easter, I'll send you an Easter ham.

I will go in on this Easter ham GB with you prdlm2009

[AKIMbO]

Once this is working, is there any plan to make a full pcb (with sensors and all)?


Like a new space-unsaver pcb for example?


Let me dream 

absolutely. The end goal would be all-modern model F before they run out completely. Though I would think a standard SSK PCB would be better.

I would be happy with an ssk, but since using an F122, the left functions and the terminal look with the F1-F24 keys has grown on me. I only find the numpad to make it too large and annoying to have my mouse so far, but the unsaver would be perfect for me! Yet an F-SSK would do the job 

I would kill for a space unsaver. 

[vivalarevolución]

Before you ask, yes those are Teensy++ mounted upside down.

Show Image

Gorgeous.  Not sure how I could thank those that are working on this project.  If you get me your address before Easter, I'll send you an Easter ham.

I will go in on this Easter ham GB with you prdlm2009

Funny story, actually.  I was living in this house in Indianapolis, and an Easter ham in a cooler showed up on the door step.  Apparently, the former resident received Easter hams from his employer.  We ate well for the next week.

[JPG]

Once this is working, is there any plan to make a full pcb (with sensors and all)?


Like a new space-unsaver pcb for example?


Let me dream 

absolutely. The end goal would be all-modern model F before they run out completely. Though I would think a standard SSK PCB would be better.

I would be happy with an ssk, but since using an F122, the left functions and the terminal look with the F1-F24 keys has grown on me. I only find the numpad to make it too large and annoying to have my mouse so far, but the unsaver would be perfect for me! Yet an F-SSK would do the job 

I would kill for a space unsaver.

I would not kill since killing is bad 


But for a new space-unsaver built with 100% ultradurable materials (made to last 100 years), well yea why not!


By the way, anyone know if unicomp is able to produce the spring and pivot plate assembly or if it could be produced at a reasonable cost so we don't have to salvage some old model F?