Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy

[inceptive]

I'm in super late! I stumbled across this when I wanted to lookup Matias, the good old Mac keyboard maker. Clearly it's taken a long time but it should be really special when it's done. Glad to see some updates.

[stbtrax]

I'm only following this thread because of how silly it is now. It's been 7 years. If you think this is going to actually ever be released you are blissfully naive like I once was. I don't understand how a project of this complexity can take 7 years, or what factory would even work with you on something that takes that long.

[Matias]

I'm only following this thread because of how silly it is now. It's been 7 years. If you think this is going to actually ever be released you are blissfully naive like I once was. I don't understand how a project of this complexity can take 7 years, or what factory would even work with you on something that takes that long.

Well, you'll just have to wait and see. 

If we weren't going to do it, then we would just refund everybody's money and announce that the project is cancelled.  We obviously haven't done that.

[bujorc]

I'm only following this thread because of how silly it is now. It's been 7 years. If you think this is going to actually ever be released you are blissfully naive like I once was. I don't understand how a project of this complexity can take 7 years, or what factory would even work with you on something that takes that long.

Well, you'll just have to wait and see. 

If we weren't going to do it, then we would just refund everybody's money and announce that the project is cancelled.  We obviously haven't done that.

It's good that good reasoning and communication govern this project, obviously. Also, to put things in perspective, 7 years is approximately the golden(?) era of keyboards, what took us from non-ergonomic beamsprings to non-ergonomic rubber. But again, it's good that things are logical and properly communicated.

[stbtrax]

I'm only following this thread because of how silly it is now. It's been 7 years. If you think this is going to actually ever be released you are blissfully naive like I once was. I don't understand how a project of this complexity can take 7 years, or what factory would even work with you on something that takes that long.

Well, you'll just have to wait and see. 

If we weren't going to do it, then we would just refund everybody's money and announce that the project is cancelled.  We obviously haven't done that.

It's good that good reasoning and communication govern this project, obviously. Also, to put things in perspective, 7 years is approximately the golden(?) era of keyboards, what took us from non-ergonomic beamsprings to non-ergonomic rubber. But again, it's good that things are logical and properly communicated.

So what is the new schedule? I think you want to make this product, but I don't think you are being realistic about it if it has taken 7 years, that is insane.
Can you lay out a clear schedule, where things are now, what the risks are and how you're going to get to production? Then follow-up on why you are not meeting that schedule and what steps you are taking to remedy it?

Nothing of value is being communicated, the last time you gave some info was june 2019 when you said the keycaps are almost ready.

[Philbeey]

I'm only following this thread because of how silly it is now. It's been 7 years. If you think this is going to actually ever be released you are blissfully naive like I once was. I don't understand how a project of this complexity can take 7 years, or what factory would even work with you on something that takes that long.

Well, you'll just have to wait and see. 

If we weren't going to do it, then we would just refund everybody's money and announce that the project is cancelled.  We obviously haven't done that.

It's good that good reasoning and communication govern this project, obviously. Also, to put things in perspective, 7 years is approximately the golden(?) era of keyboards, what took us from non-ergonomic beamsprings to non-ergonomic rubber. But again, it's good that things are logical and properly communicated.

So what is the new schedule? I think you want to make this product, but I don't think you are being realistic about it if it has taken 7 years, that is insane.
Can you lay out a clear schedule, where things are now, what the risks are and how you're going to get to production? Then follow-up on why you are not meeting that schedule and what steps you are taking to remedy it?

Nothing of value is being communicated, the last time you gave some info was june 2019 when you said the keycaps are almost ready.

Anyone who's bought into this has been gyped honestly.

No reasonable or even logical explanation could be made for it taking 7 years.

****ty kickstarters have delivered better than this GB. Especially considering the horrid quality of the previous boards

Sent from my Phone 2 using Tapatalk

[Matias]

Just a reminder to everyone... if you are unwilling or unable to wait for this GB to be completed, you can request a refund at any time.

This is a special project, with new tech that is not yet announced.  If that's not your thing, the refund option is always there.

Thanks again to everyone who has chosen to wait.

[Philbeey]

--

[Philbeey]

Just a reminder to everyone... if you are unwilling or unable to wait for this GB to be completed, you can request a refund at any time.

This is a special project, with new tech that is not yet announced.  If that's not your thing, the refund option is always there.

Thanks again to everyone who has chosen to wait.

What a surprise, a non-response.

Sent from my Phone 2 using Tapatalk

[funkmon]

To be fair, you've been incredibly rude and didn't have much to say other than a complaint.

[Philbeey]

To be fair, you've been incredibly rude and didn't have much to say other than a complaint.

I mean yes, I won't disagree there but my point still stands.

There has been 0 true update at all.

Just Soon(TM)

A soon which is constantly shifting by the way.

I'd provide more in-depth discussion if there was anything to work with  but when was his last actual update. Or a picture.

Sent from my Phone 2 using Tapatalk

[Matias]

To be fair, you've been incredibly rude and didn't have much to say other than a complaint.

I mean yes, I won't disagree there but my point still stands.

There has been 0 true update at all.

Just Soon(TM)

A soon which is constantly shifting by the way.

I'd provide more in-depth discussion if there was anything to work with  but when was his last actual update. Or a picture.

What's with all the outrage?  Are you having a bad day?

I've been pretty clear about what's on offer here...  It's new, unannounced tech, so I can't disclose many details until it's ready.  We've offered to refund anybody who isn't happy about those conditions.  You don't seem happy.

I don't know what more I can do for you.

[Philbeey]

To be fair, you've been incredibly rude and didn't have much to say other than a complaint.

I mean yes, I won't disagree there but my point still stands.

There has been 0 true update at all.

Just Soon(TM)

A soon which is constantly shifting by the way.

I'd provide more in-depth discussion if there was anything to work with  but when was his last actual update. Or a picture.

What's with all the outrage?  Are you having a bad day?

I've been pretty clear about what's on offer here...  It's new, unannounced tech, so I can't disclose many details until it's ready.  We've offered to refund anybody who isn't happy about those conditions.  You don't seem happy.

I don't know what more I can do for you.

Oh you don't have to do anything for me I'm more curious about the plethora of mentions of any proper updates dating back to about well 2015.

PBT, hybrids, balance bars and a logo.

Impressive but I dare say perhaps not 7 years worth of work imptessive.
Hence why even 3-4 years ago people were here posting about their complete generic responses from you.
With a little smile and a wink from you too instead of a response.

"You'll see"

I would love to hear why even a long design and manufacturing process seems to be taking about umpteenth times longer than any project I have EVER seen.


I mean if you have an actual  job that will actually pay the bills and have issues dedicating yourself to a build then so be it. But hard to tell with your lack of transparency of any kind (no one wants the CAD files just be honest about what you're doing) and people will surmise what is blatantly available.

Sent from my Phone 2 using Tapatalk

[Meyvn]

Ultimately, I think there's just a fundamental difference between your perspective as an outside person/potential customer and Matias's re: the level of transparency you are owed. As an Alps fan, while I was still backing the project I was frustrated too. The fact that they're willing to fully refund even years later, frankly, I think satisfies their obligations. Their continued existence as a stable-enough company to provide said refunds is evidence enough for me that they should be taken at their word at least as far as their intentions and plain statements of fact go (even if time estimates are way way out the window).

No one is being cheated. This is just Matias's pet project. It's not a Kickstarter, and it's not a primary breadwinner for anything they do. It's a labor of love that clearly has to take a backseat to other projects that keep the company afloat. This shouldn't be compared to keycap runs with GMK, or PCB kit group buys. A better comparison would be to consider this along the lines of Unicomp introducing new products. Matias can't rely on tons of existing Cherry MX clone makers for parts. They're having to create their own infrastructure. It sucks that it's taking so long, but you can still pull out, and just buy if and when the product actually releases.

[andresteare]

Just a reminder to everyone... if you are unwilling or unable to wait for this GB to be completed, you can request a refund at any time.

This is a special project, with new tech that is not yet announced.  If that's not your thing, the refund option is always there.

Thanks again to everyone who has chosen to wait.

Any updates you can share?

[aphoid]

I’m curious if there’s anything to share since the last update.

Will it be possible to get the windows-style nav cluster with macOS modifiers on the rest of the keyboard?

[Matias]

I’m curious if there’s anything to share since the last update.

Will it be possible to get the windows-style nav cluster with macOS modifiers on the rest of the keyboard?

Thanks for your question.

Yes, the firmware supports both Mac and PC, and is programmable.  It's essentially the same firmware as our Ergo Pro (but with fewer keys)...

With COVID, everything's been delayed but the 60% will be the next mechanical product we release. We updated the Ergo Pro last year (just before COVID started).

Let me know if you have any other questions.  Thanks to everyone who has kept the faith with this project. Your patience will be rewarded.

[aphoid]

I’m curious if there’s anything to share since the last update.

Will it be possible to get the windows-style nav cluster with macOS modifiers on the rest of the keyboard?

Thanks for your question.

Yes, the firmware supports both Mac and PC, and is programmable.  It's essentially the same firmware as our Ergo Pro (but with fewer keys)...

I'm wondering about the supplied keycaps/switches. 

I mean, will I be able to get the macOS-style keycaps (fn, ctrl, option, cmd) as on the mac, with the nav cluster keys/keycaps (home, end, pg up,pg dn) depicted here:

http://matias.ca/60/pc/viewer/1.jpg

instead of the option/fn keys on the right side as depicted here:

http://matias.ca/60/pc/viewer/2.jpg

[Matias]

I'm wondering about the supplied keycaps/switches. 

I mean, will I be able to get the macOS-style keycaps (fn, ctrl, option, cmd) as on the mac, with the nav cluster keys/keycaps (home, end, pg up,pg dn) depicted here:

http://matias.ca/60/pc/viewer/1.jpg

instead of the option/fn keys on the right side as depicted here:

http://matias.ca/60/pc/viewer/2.jpg

Yes, it will include both sets of caps.

[aphoid]

Yes, it will include both sets of caps.

Great, thanks!

[Philbeey]

Happy New Year lmao

[timerickson]

If you had invested the $300 paid in 2014, for an aluminum preorder of this board, in the DJIA, your returns today would mark a value today of ~$612, meaning a doubling of your money.  If the board ever does ship, it would effectively be free.  Making this point so people realize how stupid it is to pre-pay vendors that refuse to ship in a timely manner.     Invested in the S&P500 would have been even more generous at ~$694 today. The numbers arent much lower for those that got in during 2016 or 2018.  Feel free to do the math yourself: https://financial-calculators.com/historical-investment-calculator

[Maledicted]

This is another situation where I would sneak in once news of actual shipping started to materialize. I did that with the IBM 4704 reproductions.

I'm still conflicted on whether or not I would even want to spend that much on the board anyway just for Matias/Alps compatibility. Seems like less bang for your buck by comparison. 4704 has a lot of necessary material costs, regardless of economies of scale.

And I freaking love Matias boards.

[Hapi]

I'm afraid Matias is ending with mechanical keyboards. They are no longer on their store: Matias Quiet Pro Keyboard for Mac, Matias Quiet Pro Keyboard for PC, Keycaps ... I would be quite interested in a statement from Matias.

[Maledicted]

I'm afraid Matias is ending with mechanical keyboards. They are no longer on their store: Matias Quiet Pro Keyboard for Mac, Matias Quiet Pro Keyboard for PC, Keycaps ... I would be quite interested in a statement from Matias.

I'm not seeing anything different. Everything they've been making recently looks to still be there.

I just bought another 200 clicky switches and some stabilizers from them very recently as well.

[Hapi]

I'm afraid Matias is ending with mechanical keyboards. They are no longer on their store: Matias Quiet Pro Keyboard for Mac, Matias Quiet Pro Keyboard for PC, Keycaps ... I would be quite interested in a statement from Matias.

I'm not seeing anything different. Everything they've been making recently looks to still be there.

I just bought another 200 clicky switches and some stabilizers from them very recently as well.

Tactile Pro Keyboard for PC - retired (only dvorak
http://matias.ca/tactilepro/pc/

Secure Pro - retired
http://matias.ca/securepro/pc/

Quiet Pro Mac - missing in store
https://matias.store/products/quiet-pro-keyboard-for-mac

Keycaps
I was wrong about the keycaps.

[Maledicted]

I'm afraid Matias is ending with mechanical keyboards. They are no longer on their store: Matias Quiet Pro Keyboard for Mac, Matias Quiet Pro Keyboard for PC, Keycaps ... I would be quite interested in a statement from Matias.

I'm not seeing anything different. Everything they've been making recently looks to still be there.

I just bought another 200 clicky switches and some stabilizers from them very recently as well.

Tactile Pro Keyboard for PC - retired (only dvorak
http://matias.ca/tactilepro/pc/

Secure Pro - retired
http://matias.ca/securepro/pc/

Quiet Pro Mac - missing in store
https://matias.store/products/quiet-pro-keyboard-for-mac

Keycaps
I was wrong about the keycaps.

I don't think any of those have been made for some time. I don't know of any recent lineup changes.

[Hapi]

I don't know how long these keyboards are retired. But they don't have a full-size keyboard for PCs now. But we need to be surprised and a new product will come. After all, the current design is already very obsolete. In addition, the glossy plastic is not practical and will probably discourage many potential customers.

[Maledicted]

I don't know how long these keyboards are retired. But they don't have a full-size keyboard for PCs now. But we need to be surprised and a new product will come. After all, the current design is already very obsolete. In addition, the glossy plastic is not practical and will probably discourage many potential customers.

What's obsolete about it? A keyboard is a keyboard. I routinely use keyboards from the 80s.

I haven't cracked open any of my fullsize boards, but if the controller is anything like in the mini boards (it is probably identical), you can change the key mapping by removing and/or soldering in resistors. The Mac versions work just fine in Windows though. The biggest annoyance is some of the modifiers are reversed. I forget which, Windows key and alt maybe.

I love the glossy plastic, especially being that it is made of polycarbonate, so I know that it is actually durable.

[Hapi]

The design is outdated. A bite of vintage keyboards have a contemporary design, such as focus keyboards. I don't care much about design if the keyboard is good. But there are not many such enthusiasts.

+ Glossy plastic is not practical: fingerprints, reflections and scratches.

[Maledicted]

The design is outdated. A bite of vintage keyboards have a contemporary design, such as focus keyboards. I don't care much about design if the keyboard is good. But there are not many such enthusiasts.

+ Glossy plastic is not practical: fingerprints, glare and scratches.

I don't think that designs get outdated. Trends are pointless. Their mini keyboards are wonderful in both form and function. I would like them maybe a little smaller, but oh well.

Fingerprints, glare and scratches are irrelevant. It is a tool, not an art exhibit.

I wish they made something like a 65% without gigantic boards around the case, with a Windows-based mapping and clicky switches, but they're catering to what they perceive to be their primary market: Nostalgic Apple users who used things like the AEK back in the 90s.

If enough people show interest, maybe they'll start making more enthusiast-based products, but their switches have a bad reputation for problems with the old Forward switches and/or QC in installation of the switches in the past. I don't think this is really a problem at all anymore, but the reputation remains.

[Philbeey]

This is beyond goofy at this point. And anyone who hasn’t put in a refund should already.

What actual updates have there been in 8 years.

I mean legitimately I’m curious what you guys think will happen at this point.
Sunk cost fallacy pun aside.

8 years, covers my  military career time while getting a masters too.

[Matias]

I do have an update…

I’m in Taiwan now and the 60% keyboard is one of the two projects on the agenda for this trip. This is the first time since COVID that I’ve been able to travel. The keycap tooling has been done for quite some time and we were ready to go, then COVID hit.

Our original plan was to do the keyboard in China, but their zero-COVID policy has the country perpetually locked down, so it will be done in Taiwan now. We’ve visited a few factories, and have narrowed the list down to two. I’m here another month and will post an update when the first samples are ready.

[aphoid]

Thank you for the update.  While this has been a ridiculously long time, one expects it'll be pretty nice after such a long time in development. 

[macclack]

Could this be the longest GB ever?

[nateth]

Could this be the longest GB ever?

Probably. 

[stbtrax]

Doing my bi-yearly Check-in now.
This has gone beyond comical to me being legitimately concerned for whoever is running this program. It is either 1. Some sort of scam, or the person managing this product is clinically delusional. I work in manufacturing in Asia and this sort of timeline is non-existant

Again:
1. Can you lay out a schedule for your next build and the quantities you’re making?
2. When are you targeting delivering to customers?

The fact that these can’t be answered for a decade now point to how this is literally a scam or some serious self-delusion which should be treated medically at this point. Not trying to be harsh but I am genuinely concerned for the person running this program

[aphoid]

at the very least, some of the facts have changed.  Quoting http://matias.ca/60/pc/:

In fact, the SAME mounting plate & PCB supports BOTH Cherry and ALPS. This is the first keyboard ever to offer this capability.

There exist PCBs that support both MX and Alps now, e.g. https://www.checkerboards.xyz/atlas-alpsmx-pcb.html

How long will I have to wait to receive my keyboard?
Based on past projects, we estimate that it will take 8-18 months to complete.

Typo there: should be "years" there HTH. 

[apastuszak]

Now we need a how swap PCB that can do both MX style and Alps style switches.

[RyanNSkolnick]

I first got into mechanical keyboards with a chance encounter with a Matias Tactile Pro. I loved that board so much. So I was very excited to see this project, but also sad that it's been in the GB stage for what is pushing a decade. Hopefully this can be successful, an aluminum board with Matias Click switches for my Mac in that compact 60 percent layout is kind of the dream for me tbh

[timerickson]

Closing in on a decade since this scam started, hahahaha

[aphoid]

Looks like we just missed the 10th anniversary....

[macclack]

Matias, time to get this thing done. Or just call it DOA and refund everyone their money.

[ideutsch]

.