Author Topic: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)  (Read 24001 times)

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Offline Volny

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #150 on: Wed, 05 May 2021, 10:14:34 »
This thread has been enlightening for me. I inherited the prevailing prejudice against browns, tried a couple, found them weak (ie. not enough spine-cracking fireworks during the press) , and wrote off browns for good. But then I read this thread and it made sense to me that I should be looking for gentle signalling of actuation rather than spectatular finger thrills.

As it happens, a macropad arrived today with some gateron browns on it. They would have gone straight in a drawer were it not for this thread. I included a few in some blind tests I've been doing to decide which combination of switches to put in my boards, and they did very well. They've become a front runner for some of my lighter keys.


Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #151 on: Wed, 05 May 2021, 10:54:01 »
Medium tactiles that are smooth [like Durock] can also fulfill the role of Browns, while giving a little more tactile feedback.

Offline blur410

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #152 on: Fri, 07 May 2021, 04:01:02 »
Personally Topre has me covered in the medium-light tactility department simply because of the force curve and noise level, it requires almost no effort to hold down compared to any cherry switch and since alps are rare/difficult to obtain it will have to suffice. And not making any sound in voice chat is a bonus. This makes them prime for gaming in particular. But I do have some Kailh Polias incoming so my opinion on brown type switches could change, one thing I do like about browns is that the tactility doesn't get in the way of keyspamming while also being present enough to tell you have depressed the key. If I played more RTS like I used to back in the mid-2000's, I would absolutely worship browns for that use case and is a problem for any non-linear switch aside from browns.

Unfortunately I have been unable to play RTS games properly because I previously learned how to play them on a trackball before moving to a surface mouse. When I got rid of my trackball and upgraded to a deathadder, I simply never looked back and went on to playing FPS/TPS games where keyboards seemed to mean a lot less and mice/computer specs/monitor mattered far more. I have since gone full circle and found out that a lot of the old games I used to play on my first Dell have been since ported to steam or I have reacquired the discs to play them, and correspondingly acquired a bunch of both old and new trackballs for use in these games. Classically I have been a thumb baller but I have since switched to finger balls. Hopefully my muscle memory won't need too much tuning. And hopefully I can learn how to use the hotkeys in newer RTS games and take advantage of the sweet spammability of mx tactiles that made them so popular originally.
Keyboard Ownership History: Dynex(Rubber dome chicklet keys)-EXTINCT, Macbook Air 2016(Scissor switch)-ACTIVE, Razer Ornata(Mecha-membrane)-EXTINCT, Corsair K68 RGB(Cherry MX Reds)-RETIRED, Razer Tartarus Pro(Razer optical analog)-RETIRED, Idobao ID-75(NK Creams)-SHELF, HHKB Pro 3 Classic(Topre BKE MX Mount)-ACTIVE, New Model F62(Capacitive buckling springs)-ACTIVE, Realforce 23UB(Topre)-ACTIVE, BM60-RGBEC w/KBDFANS 5 Degree Case(NK BOX Pinks)-SHELF, Focus 2001 (Alps White)-SHELF, Unidentified Vintage MX Black Board-SHELF

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #153 on: Fri, 07 May 2021, 09:45:14 »
Personally Topre has me covered in the medium-light tactility department simply because of the force curve and noise level, it requires almost no effort to hold down compared to any cherry switch and since alps are rare/difficult to obtain it will have to suffice. And not making any sound in voice chat is a bonus. This makes them prime for gaming in particular. But I do have some Kailh Polias incoming so my opinion on brown type switches could change

Which Topre keyboard are you using? I don't mind light and silent Topre, especially the latter part.

And let us know what you think of the Polias. I tried Halo True in the past, but the spring was too heavy, smothering the tactility. Maybe the Polias can do better. If not, just put the stems in Boba housings and you have Holy Bobas.

Offline blur410

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #154 on: Sat, 08 May 2021, 09:47:04 »
Did just get in my poliahs, gotta wait on my stabilizers from drop tho, could take anywhere from 5 days to a month, bless drop's heart when you pay for premium shipping from a US based warehouse that is somehow slower than KBDfans, based in China.

I have my HHKB Pro 3 setting on the shelf right now, mainly because moving my model f is pretty hard and finding a place to store it is difficult because I typically have normally sized 60% boards while the kishsaver takes up the space of a big TKL. Luckily I am not streaming at the moment and the one friend I play with regularly is in to keyboards anyways so he doesn't mind the ping noises.
Keyboard Ownership History: Dynex(Rubber dome chicklet keys)-EXTINCT, Macbook Air 2016(Scissor switch)-ACTIVE, Razer Ornata(Mecha-membrane)-EXTINCT, Corsair K68 RGB(Cherry MX Reds)-RETIRED, Razer Tartarus Pro(Razer optical analog)-RETIRED, Idobao ID-75(NK Creams)-SHELF, HHKB Pro 3 Classic(Topre BKE MX Mount)-ACTIVE, New Model F62(Capacitive buckling springs)-ACTIVE, Realforce 23UB(Topre)-ACTIVE, BM60-RGBEC w/KBDFANS 5 Degree Case(NK BOX Pinks)-SHELF, Focus 2001 (Alps White)-SHELF, Unidentified Vintage MX Black Board-SHELF

Offline macclack

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #155 on: Tue, 25 May 2021, 11:07:22 »
I'll go so far as to say that my switch preference has moved away from linears and towards light tactiles.

Offline arock0627

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #156 on: Tue, 25 May 2021, 11:40:13 »
I just slapped together an NK65 with Gateron Browns and it's pretty close to my dream board.  I think the installation of a dampener and some work on the spacebar stabs will do the trick.

I spent a few years thinking I liked the tactile bump in a brown but what I actually like is how light it is, because I actually prefer the actuation of linears (i.e. I'm a caveman who bottoms out) but don't like how there's no actuation force.  I tested all of the best tactile switches and none of them felt particularly good, even though I was assured by the online masses that browns were ****.  Then as I was typing on my GMMK at work (also with Gateron Browns) I finally realized it wasn't the bump I liked.

I enjoy the bottoming out, and resting my fingers on the keys when not typing.

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #157 on: Wed, 26 May 2021, 07:45:22 »
Interesting you should mention that. I just received Gateron Orange samples today.

As far as I can tell, it's a factory-lubed Gateron Brown. Not necessarily a good idea.

The tactility of the Gateron Brown is already negligible. Lubing it runs the risk of turning it into a linear, which is what this feels like. They should have at least accentuated the tactile bump in order to justify and compensate for the lubing.

Offline chat and team

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #158 on: Sun, 15 August 2021, 15:02:26 »
https://paramountkeeb.com/collections/switches
These guys have sp star meteor oranges in stock right now.

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #159 on: Sun, 15 August 2021, 20:52:12 »
Well, of course they do. Just after I received mine that were ordered in June.

SP Star Meteor Orange is an interesting and relevant tactile for those looking at Browns. To me, they are like an MX Brown without the 'noise' associated with Cherry [scratch/sand/gritty, sawtooth molds].

It's a clean, sharp, short bump. Actuation around 2mm, like Gateron Brown, but doesn't feel 'late.' A little lighter than MX Brown at 57 G, but the bump is more distinct.

Problem with the switch is that it is LOUD. Not sure if this is from the spring, housing, stem, leaf, or some combination thereof. So I'm looking at various solutions.

Offline bkrownd

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #160 on: Thu, 23 September 2021, 17:09:59 »

  To test out a new keyboard I put some "glorious pandas" I had sitting around in to give it a workout.  Damn, those lumpy things make my fingers tired!  Brown is fine, thanks.  ;)
My Group Buys: SA Nightlight, GMK Tuzi, ePBT RamenStop, GMK Iceberg, IFK Peach Tea, KAT Space Dust, GMK Stargaze
Non-GB sets: Akko World Tour Tokyo (V1), Coral Sea, SA Lime, SA Calm Depths, Akko Cinnamoroll
Boards: GMMK TKL, Akko 3084, Kono 84, KBD75v3.1, Akko 3068B

Offline _haru

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #161 on: Fri, 24 September 2021, 08:17:12 »
I recently built a 60% with some "old" MX Browns (around 2008 or so). They're really nice.
AMJ60 - 45g MX White | GH60 Rev. C - Ghost Gateron Blacks | DFK101 - Alps SKCM Cream | Filco Majestouch 2 TKL - 62g Vintage MX Ergo Clear

Offline Volny

  • Posts: 218
Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #162 on: Sat, 25 September 2021, 03:38:56 »

  To test out a new keyboard I put some "glorious pandas" I had sitting around in to give it a workout.  Damn, those lumpy things make my fingers tired!  Brown is fine, thanks.  ;)
I've never cared about ergonomics of keyboards because in over 30 years of heavy computing I've not once had any kind of rsi or strain or hand fatigue. Until this year when I put glorious pandas into my keyboard. After a few months I realised my knuckles were starting to hurt from the rock hard bottoming out. I honestly feel like those switches might have given me arthritis eventually. I've since replaced them with 'silenced' switches, but am currently looking at browns and Brown-likes as well.

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #163 on: Sat, 25 September 2021, 19:49:52 »
You're not alone in your thinking.

When I type on very-tactile switches like Zealio V2 or Holy Pandas, I feel them exercising muscles in my hands that aren't ordinarily used by light tactiles.

So, for some people, the heavy bump and slam of currently-fashionable tactiles could create additional tension or wear on muscles or joints.

MX Brown was specifically designed to be ergonomic and low-impact, to be used on the ergonomic Kinesis Advantage keyboard.


Offline bkrownd

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #164 on: Sat, 25 September 2021, 21:13:53 »

  I've kinda got thin "girl fingers", so I have a very light touch on the keys.  ;D  The switch needs to fit the way your fingers naturally work. 

My Group Buys: SA Nightlight, GMK Tuzi, ePBT RamenStop, GMK Iceberg, IFK Peach Tea, KAT Space Dust, GMK Stargaze
Non-GB sets: Akko World Tour Tokyo (V1), Coral Sea, SA Lime, SA Calm Depths, Akko Cinnamoroll
Boards: GMMK TKL, Akko 3084, Kono 84, KBD75v3.1, Akko 3068B

Offline jcoffin1981

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #165 on: Sat, 09 October 2021, 18:46:22 »
I just purchased a Leopold FC210TP, and besides the stupid thing not working for some games and programs, the Browns used were VERY inconsistent.  Varying levels of tactility and resistance.
KPB V60 Gateron Browns and Leopold Keycaps.  Poker 3 with Gateron Browns and Poker keycaps.  Poker 3 with Cherry MX Browns, ABS keycaps and white LED's.

Leopold FC660M- my new favorite, right out of the box.

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #166 on: Sat, 09 October 2021, 20:51:49 »
My Leopold's Browns were nothing to write home about, either.

I only hear good things about Ducky One Two and Shine 7 with the early Hyperglide Browns, these days. Sometimes you get a good Varmilo.

Really, if you want a good light tactile keyboard, get a custom kit or retrofit a prebuilt with:

-Gateron CAP Brown
-Durock Light Tactile / Pewter
-Durock Medium Tactile (RARA)
-SP Star Meteor Orange

-Some people even like TTC Gold Brown V3, AKKO CS Ocean Blue

Or build light Ergo Clears. Mine are barely heavier than Browns, and at least they are consistent. You might go as low as 63.5 G Progressive for that MX Brown weight. Just lube carefully. Also, Zealio V1 is back!

Offline arhue

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #167 on: Mon, 11 October 2021, 00:11:05 »


Using my MX Brown KBC Poker II for 5-6 years now. I really love the happy middle ground that they provide. I haven't used any other switch keyboards extensively, other than trying out my friend's linear switch keyboard, which I didn't really like. Blues are too noisy and can quickly annoy people around you.

Offline jcoffin1981

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #168 on: Fri, 22 October 2021, 21:59:07 »
I used to be a huge fan of MX Brown when I first started in this.  As I was introduced to newer switches the Browns fell out of favor with me.  There were many better clones that hit the scene.  The board with the Browns went into the closet for a while.  A year or two later I took it out and decided to lube it. I did go a little heavy and I also lubed the legs, but it was an entirely different switch.  The lube dulled the tactile bump, but as the lube wore away it did come back.  The switch now has a little more resistance and it sounds and feels totally different.  The only negative to lubing it is that it is not as responsive.  MX do very well with lubrication.  My favorite switches are Kailh Box, but there is so little of the switch that comes into contact with the housing that there is no benefit gained from lubing.

Anyways I'm using my old Poker 3 with lubed Browns in a Tex case and I'm loving it.  It really is a pleasure to use.  I'm also finding that my typing is more accurate. I'm not sure why, but maybe because of the longer switch action?  4mm vs 2.8 or 3, whatever the Kailh Box and Speed Switches are.  I'll post an image.  It's a sharp looking board. I never upgraded the caps because I really like the Pok3r caps. 
KPB V60 Gateron Browns and Leopold Keycaps.  Poker 3 with Gateron Browns and Poker keycaps.  Poker 3 with Cherry MX Browns, ABS keycaps and white LED's.

Leopold FC660M- my new favorite, right out of the box.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #169 on: Sat, 23 October 2021, 07:40:55 »
Anyways I'm using my old Poker 3 with lubed Browns in a Tex case and I'm loving it.  It really is a pleasure to use.  I'm also finding that my typing is more accurate. I'm not sure why, but maybe because of the longer switch action?  4mm vs 2.8 or 3, whatever the Kailh Box and Speed Switches are.  I'll post an image.  It's a sharp looking board. I never upgraded the caps because I really like the Pok3r caps.

I've yet to hear from anyone who doesn't type faster, more accurately, or both with browns after giving them a fair shot.

Testing hyperglide browns side by side with hyperglide blacks, both with the same internal tuning(55g tx short spring, thick lube, deskkeys films), it's like night and day for me.

The tactility is pronounced enough when side by side to linears that I can appreciate the balance cherry nailed with the bump. Had I not had a linear board right beside this one I wouldn't even really notice the tactility when typing longer blocks of stuff. I've found that the tactility is just present enough that I know it's there, but it isn't in the way, if that makes sense.

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #170 on: Sat, 23 October 2021, 12:01:30 »
There are people out there who unironically think MX Browns are a linear, as are all switches in that range [e.g. Everglide Jade Green].

But if you test them side-by-side with actual linears, the difference is apparent.

There is a definite slowdown and short bump with Brown-like switches. It's not a clean, empty linear press. Now, if that tactile event is not enough for you, there are other switches.

But they're not linears, and they're ergonomic as they ease bottom-out at low linear weights.

The more you use Browns, the more you understand Cherry's reasoning behind them, and the testing that may have gone into the process. The one thing that's lacking today is Browns produced with modern equipment and techniques using fresh molds, so that you can experience what Cherry intended.

Offline pr0ximity

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #171 on: Sun, 24 October 2021, 14:42:50 »
The one thing that's lacking today is Browns produced with modern equipment and techniques using fresh molds, so that you can experience what Cherry intended.

These are Hyperglide Browns, my man  :cool:
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Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #172 on: Sun, 24 October 2021, 15:17:02 »

These are Hyperglide Browns, my man  :cool:

I like Hyperglide Browns. At least the fresh ones.

They have a good typing feel. There still is that Cherry scratchiness, and they sound atrocious. There are also said to be housing issues that deviate from classic Cherry, causing interference with GMK keycaps.

So I wouldn't say that they are manufactured 100% perfectly, but they are nice Browns to type on.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #173 on: Mon, 25 October 2021, 17:03:52 »

These are Hyperglide Browns, my man  :cool:

I like Hyperglide Browns. At least the fresh ones.

They have a good typing feel. There still is that Cherry scratchiness, and they sound atrocious. There are also said to be housing issues that deviate from classic Cherry, causing interference with GMK keycaps.

So I wouldn't say that they are manufactured 100% perfectly, but they are nice Browns to type on.

If you land on a good batch I can %100 vouch for them. Have some 55g tx spring swapped ones in a matrix 2.0 (non add) and it's honestly just as good as my vint browns with kbdmod 55g springs, if not a slight bit better?

The kind of cherry picking and lottery rolling you have to do with them isnt worth it imo, when vints are a bit more consistent overall, but they're damn good if you get the right ones.

Also protip, 2.0 pre ADD matrix is a browns board, and nobody can convince me otherwise.

Offline pr0ximity

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #174 on: Mon, 25 October 2021, 17:59:32 »
Also protip, 2.0 pre ADD matrix is a browns board, and nobody can convince me otherwise.

Every board is a browns board, CMV.
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Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #175 on: Mon, 25 October 2021, 19:16:07 »
Also protip, 2.0 pre ADD matrix is a browns board, and nobody can convince me otherwise.

Every board is a browns board, CMV.

Facts

Offline jcoffin1981

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #176 on: Tue, 26 October 2021, 23:05:51 »
I used to be a huge fan of MX Brown when I first started in this.  As I was introduced to newer switches the Browns fell out of favor with me.  There were many better clones that hit the scene.  The board with the Browns went into the closet for a while.  A year or two later I took it out and decided to lube it. I did go a little heavy and I also lubed the legs, but it was an entirely different switch.  The lube dulled the tactile bump, but as the lube wore away it did come back.  The switch now has a little more resistance and it sounds and feels totally different.  The only negative to lubing it is that it is not as responsive.  MX do very well with lubrication.  My favorite switches are Kailh Box, but there is so little of the switch that comes into contact with the housing that there is no benefit gained from lubing.

Anyways I'm using my old Poker 3 with lubed Browns in a Tex case and I'm loving it.  It really is a pleasure to use.  I'm also finding that my typing is more accurate. I'm not sure why, but maybe because of the longer switch action?  4mm vs 2.8 or 3, whatever the Kailh Box and Speed Switches are.  I'll post an image.  It's a sharp looking board. I never upgraded the caps because I really like the Pok3r caps. 

I just purchased a Leopold FC210TP, and besides the stupid thing not working for some games and programs, the Browns used were VERY inconsistent.  Varying levels of tactility and resistance.

Here is the board with a Tex case.  I can't believe how much I am likeling these switches, and I'm making virtually NO MISTAKES.  I have to iterate that I don't really care for MX Browns much not lubed, but this is like a different switch. 
KPB V60 Gateron Browns and Leopold Keycaps.  Poker 3 with Gateron Browns and Poker keycaps.  Poker 3 with Cherry MX Browns, ABS keycaps and white LED's.

Leopold FC660M- my new favorite, right out of the box.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #177 on: Wed, 27 October 2021, 09:58:43 »
Anyways I'm using my old Poker 3 with lubed Browns in a Tex case and I'm loving it.  It really is a pleasure to use.  I'm also finding that my typing is more accurate. I'm not sure why, but maybe because of the longer switch action?  4mm vs 2.8 or 3, whatever the Kailh Box and Speed Switches are.  I'll post an image.  It's a sharp looking board. I never upgraded the caps because I really like the Pok3r caps.

I've yet to hear from anyone who doesn't type faster, more accurately, or both with browns after giving them a fair shot.

Testing hyperglide browns side by side with hyperglide blacks, both with the same internal tuning(55g tx short spring, thick lube, deskkeys films), it's like night and day for me.

The tactility is pronounced enough when side by side to linears that I can appreciate the balance cherry nailed with the bump. Had I not had a linear board right beside this one I wouldn't even really notice the tactility when typing longer blocks of stuff. I've found that the tactility is just present enough that I know it's there, but it isn't in the way, if that makes sense.

It turns out that MX blacks are still too stiff for me to type with comfortably, even though box navies are fine. I used them for more than a week straight to give them a fair shot. I previously did the same with membrane buckling spring before that (also too stiff). Since I'm on a kick of extended use of switches I have always disliked (for a more expansive field of experience), MX brown is up next. I finally replaced the stabilizer inserts I stole from my only MX brown board (one of those old Rosewill 9000 series things), and I'll try to use it exclusively at work for at least the next week or more.

In your estimation, how long must the switch be used in order to give it a fair shot? I find it a little hard to believe that any one switch is a universal improvement in speed and accuracy for every typist, especially one that's so light. Do you imply that the modifications you've made to improve the specifications (since I think 45g is too light in general) must be applied in order to reach keyboard nirvana?

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #178 on: Wed, 27 October 2021, 14:55:55 »

Quote
I like Hyperglide Browns. At least the fresh ones.

They have a good typing feel. There still is that Cherry scratchiness, and they sound atrocious. There are also said to be housing issues that deviate from classic Cherry, causing interference with GMK keycaps.

So I wouldn't say that they are manufactured 100% perfectly, but they are nice Browns to type on.

If you land on a good batch I can %100 vouch for them. Have some 55g tx spring swapped ones in a matrix 2.0 (non add) and it's honestly just as good as my vint browns with kbdmod 55g springs, if not a slight bit better?

The kind of cherry picking and lottery rolling you have to do with them isnt worth it imo, when vints are a bit more consistent overall, but they're damn good if you get the right ones.

Also protip, 2.0 pre ADD matrix is a browns board, and nobody can convince me otherwise.

This guy put 72 G Progressive Vint Browns in a JER J80S:



https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/qh3qu3/handarbeit_just_makes_everything_look_even_better/

Does it get any better than this [aside from Handarbeit keycaps]?