Author Topic: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)  (Read 9151 times)

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Offline Polymer

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 06 March 2019, 04:18:20 »
Love Browns we’re looking for a forum like this.

Only wish they were a touch clickier

I've heard Brown stems in an MX Blue housing gives it a bit nore tactioity.

I'm also experimenting with lubing the legs on some MX Clears to reduce the tactility a little, seems promising.

Or lighter springs...it is a reasonably good middle ground if you really want more tactility...

Browns, IMO, feels pretty lame when pressing slowly..but that's not really what they're used for.  When typing they feel great....

Worn in browns feel absolutely fantastic and are one of my favorite switches...I haven't tried the newer Cherry ones to compare but if you can get that same feel with the newer ones out of the box, that's great!

Offline Telstar

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #51 on: Wed, 06 March 2019, 11:12:17 »
Browns are among my favourite switches. Blue and bucket spring being a little better but they are too noisy.
I'm going to try Gateron brown as they seem to be inbetween cherry blues and browns with their longer and smoother travel. For this reason I discarded Romer-Gs.
« Last Edit: Wed, 06 March 2019, 11:41:07 by Telstar »

Offline Telstar

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #52 on: Wed, 06 March 2019, 11:27:40 »
Because the Gateron Brown has a slightly lighter spring than the MX Brown, both springs have the same length, but different no. of coils iirc.

https://thegamingsetup.com/gaming-keyboard/buying-guides/keyboard-switch-chart-table
They have a longer actuation point, which is a positive thing for me.
Matias quietclick and mx  grey are my next (besides the roccat titans), but especially the second ones are hard to find, unless i do a transplant :)


Offline Telstar

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #53 on: Thu, 07 March 2019, 08:27:02 »
Going back memory lane, I remember the cherry switch tryouts i used and the MX brown felt better than these Gaterons. Probably they were "old" MX, more fluid. These are supposed to be less sandy but it doesn't feel so, especially coming from my model M. I think the longer travel helps, and the force I'm used to put bottoms them out. But… well, the switch search continues.

Offline Polymer

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #54 on: Thu, 07 March 2019, 15:15:54 »
You're supposed to bottom out....If you can use just enough force to lightly bottom out that's great...but you shouldn't be holding up speed trying to not bottom out..it is a complete waste of time..

Offline NTwoO

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #55 on: Fri, 08 March 2019, 03:08:34 »
The Kinesis uses the internal beeper to train your fingers to follow the tactile bump and prevent bottoming out. Using this I've managed to learn to type without bottoming out quite quickly. It does feel faster, but maybe I'm learning it wrong. Beeper is off now and I'm still only typing on the tactile bump with slight bottoming on some of the strokes. It does feel more fluid and faster. Maybe it is only subjective.

Offline vegs

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #56 on: Fri, 08 March 2019, 04:49:48 »
The Kinesis uses the internal beeper to train your fingers to follow the tactile bump and prevent bottoming out. Using this I've managed to learn to type without bottoming out quite quickly. It does feel faster, but maybe I'm learning it wrong. Beeper is off now and I'm still only typing on the tactile bump with slight bottoming on some of the strokes. It does feel more fluid and faster. Maybe it is only subjective.
I legitimately don't see the potential benefit of not bottoming out. At least for me, trying to not bottom out requires way more effort compared to bottoming out.

And I'm curious, how quickly is "quite quickly"?
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Offline pr0ximity

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #57 on: Fri, 08 March 2019, 05:36:58 »
I legitimately don't see the potential benefit of not bottoming out. At least for me, trying to not bottom out requires way more effort compared to bottoming out.

Some folks' fingers get fatigued/painful with the repeated hard impact, but idk if I'd recommend Browns to solve that, personally.
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Offline Polymer

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #58 on: Fri, 08 March 2019, 06:27:19 »
The Kinesis uses the internal beeper to train your fingers to follow the tactile bump and prevent bottoming out. Using this I've managed to learn to type without bottoming out quite quickly. It does feel faster, but maybe I'm learning it wrong. Beeper is off now and I'm still only typing on the tactile bump with slight bottoming on some of the strokes. It does feel more fluid and faster. Maybe it is only subjective.

It isn't faster...although maybe on a kinesis it is different. 

Challenge as been up on this board...post a vid of fast typing without bottoming out...There is a difference between slamming it hard and just enough force to touch the bottom (with sometimes not hitting bottom) but the reality is, you're giving up speed in trying to prevent or touching so lightly that you won't hit bottom on a regular basis...

I would also say, tactile switches, which people like to say helps them tell when to stop...only making not bottoming out harder because the force necessary is a ramp UP and then you have a drop off.  The exception to this is something like Clears where the ramp up at the end is so severe it makes it easier to stop before hitting bottom but essentially that is the same as hitting bottom as you've hit a point where you've maxed what your force is vs. the force to go any further.  If you had more force than that you'd have bottomed with that force anyways and yes, that curve is smoother so I recognize it is not exactly the same...

Offline Telstar

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #59 on: Fri, 08 March 2019, 07:24:40 »
You're supposed to bottom out....If you can use just enough force to lightly bottom out that's great...but you shouldn't be holding up speed trying to not bottom out..it is a complete waste of time..

Were you addressing me?
Cause I totally bottom out and find the resistance of the browns not enough.


Offline NTwoO

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #60 on: Fri, 08 March 2019, 07:27:44 »
The Kinesis uses the internal beeper to train your fingers to follow the tactile bump and prevent bottoming out. Using this I've managed to learn to type without bottoming out quite quickly. It does feel faster, but maybe I'm learning it wrong. Beeper is off now and I'm still only typing on the tactile bump with slight bottoming on some of the strokes. It does feel more fluid and faster. Maybe it is only subjective.
I legitimately don't see the potential benefit of not bottoming out. At least for me, trying to not bottom out requires way more effort compared to bottoming out.

And I'm curious, how quickly is "quite quickly"?

After two to three weeks I manage to type with about 10-20% of the buttons bottoming out. Only when I think too long about typing a less used character I tend to bottom out hard. The rest of the time it is mostly a light touch or a soft bottom out. My speed is not high (50-55wpm), but it feels faster if I don't bottom out all the time

Offline Polymer

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #61 on: Fri, 08 March 2019, 08:35:53 »
After two to three weeks I manage to type with about 10-20% of the buttons bottoming out. Only when I think too long about typing a less used character I tend to bottom out hard. The rest of the time it is mostly a light touch or a soft bottom out. My speed is not high (50-55wpm), but it feels faster if I don't bottom out all the time

Bottoming out softly but still maintaining your speed is fine...but the effort to not bottom out or to touch lightly to prevent bottoming out means you give up speed.

If it is happening naturally then there is no issue..but at 55wpm, it is hard to say that's really the case....

For years people were trying to talk about tactile bump and not bottoming out and this and that...its all BS...Bottoming out doesn't mean you're slamming it..but it just means you're not limiting the speed at which your fingers are moving by trying to not hit the bottom..you shouldn't care whether or not you bottom out...

For people where there is a true medical problem and you don't want to bottom..fair enough...but then you've already recognized you'll need to give up speed to do that...But the whole thing with typing faster if you don't bottom out is a total lie..

Offline mkkeyboardvigilante

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #62 on: Fri, 08 March 2019, 18:27:02 »
I still have this smaller Cherry MX Brown keyboard in my closet and I pulled it out for the first time in a while, and it felt better than I remembered when bottoming out lightly. I had put some nice PBT caps on it since the stock caps felt terrible to me when I used to use it regularly.
Current driver: HHKB Pro 2 (BKE Ultra Lights), Wooting One w/ Flaretech Red switches and HyperX PBT keycaps.

Other keyboards I own and like: Realforce 87U Variable Weight, Realforce 87U 55g, Niz Plum, Magicforce 108 Gateron Reds w/ O-Rings.

Other keyboards I have: Magicforce 68 Cherry MX Brown, Havit Low-Profile Kailh Blue, Logitech K740,
Yeah, it's a loooooooooooot of keyboards. :P

Offline pr0ximity

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #63 on: Sat, 09 March 2019, 07:09:14 »
I think, with nice light springs, Browns let you type softer and accurately than more tactile or linear switches. They give you a very light amount of feedback that doesn't really interrupt keytravel.
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Offline wellbeing44

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #64 on: Sat, 16 March 2019, 04:45:09 »
I think cherry browns in panda housing may potentially be a super brown, will have to try that out soon.

Offline Kavik

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #65 on: Thu, 21 March 2019, 23:45:37 »
I just got a cheap keyboard today with Outemu Browns (Velocifire TLK02WS).

They're not as bad as everyone says, but they are nothing special: my impression after a single night of use. These are pretty rough/scratchy and some of the keys are pingy, but I don't seem to notice these things when typing. They're a little too light, and I'm making way more mistakes than usual, but I must say that I do like the sound they make (except for this rattly spacebar).

I can definitely see how these are considered a decent all-around switch. It does make me want to try MX Clears though.

I'm not sure how closely the Outemu Browns resemble the MX Browns, but they seem fairly similar to the Kinesis Advantage I tried once.
« Last Edit: Wed, 15 July 2020, 00:22:10 by Kavik »
Maybe they're waiting for gasmasks and latex to get sexy again.

The world has become a weird place.

Offline voodoo6k

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #66 on: Tue, 14 July 2020, 17:40:22 »
Sorry to dig up this old thread, but has anyone ever tried putting a Cherry MX Brown spring into a Gateron Brown switch?

I think the light Cherry springs (blue, red, brown) are ~62g? The Gateron Brown spring feels lighter overall, especially in the bottom out.

I put one switch together and it feels pretty nice. Wondering if anyone has ever tried a full board...

Offline jamster

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #67 on: Tue, 14 July 2020, 20:54:28 »
The "Cherry MX RBG Brown" that came in a switch tester recently is much smoother than the horribly scratchy MX Browns I have from about 5 years ago (Tensoro external number pad).

Sample size of a single switch so, take it with a grain of salt.

Has Cherry updated their molds for MX Browns? This one single instance feels like a totally different switch.

Offline Kavik

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #68 on: Wed, 15 July 2020, 00:25:02 »
The "Cherry MX RBG Brown" that came in a switch tester recently is much smoother than the horribly scratchy MX Browns I have from about 5 years ago (Tensoro external number pad).

Sample size of a single switch so, take it with a grain of salt.

Has Cherry updated their molds for MX Browns? This one single instance feels like a totally different switch.

This isn't an answer to your question, but I've had a similar experience with MX Blacks. I have one from a switch tester that is perfectly smooth. No other MX Black switch or other linear switch I have compares. I don't know why it's so much better.
Maybe they're waiting for gasmasks and latex to get sexy again.

The world has become a weird place.

Offline voodoo6k

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #69 on: Wed, 15 July 2020, 09:51:31 »
The "Cherry MX RBG Brown" that came in a switch tester recently is much smoother than the horribly scratchy MX Browns I have from about 5 years ago (Tensoro external number pad).

Sample size of a single switch so, take it with a grain of salt.

Has Cherry updated their molds for MX Browns? This one single instance feels like a totally different switch.

This isn't an answer to your question, but I've had a similar experience with MX Blacks. I have one from a switch tester that is perfectly smooth. No other MX Black switch or other linear switch I have compares. I don't know why it's so much better.

I'm also wondering how different are the new "Hyperglide" switches (100 million actuations):

https://www.cherrymx.de/en/blog/how-to-diy-keyboard-part-3-cherry-mx-original.html

Offline voodoo6k

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #70 on: Thu, 16 July 2020, 13:24:49 »
Sorry to dig up this old thread, but has anyone ever tried putting a Cherry MX Brown spring into a Gateron Brown switch?

I think the light Cherry springs (blue, red, brown) are ~62g? The Gateron Brown spring feels lighter overall, especially in the bottom out.

I put one switch together and it feels pretty nice. Wondering if anyone has ever tried a full board...

Would it be correct to call those ErgoBrowns? Or are they something else (heavier spring)?

Edit: https://drop.com/buy/gateron-ergoclear-switch-sampler-bundle#overview

ErgoGateron
« Last Edit: Thu, 16 July 2020, 13:29:32 by voodoo6k »

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #71 on: Thu, 16 July 2020, 13:50:25 »
I'm planning to experiment with "Ergo Browns" soon.

I already have some lubed MX Browns with 55 gr Spirit springs on the way, and next I'm going to try 45 gr springs.

WRT what was said earlier on the thread, it is possible to train yourself to type lightly on the Browns and not bottom-out. Or at least barely bottom-out, so that you're not transmitting too much force to the board. You can easily float on Browns because of the light springs and low tactility. It's a good switch for that if you have hover hands like you're supposed to.

But I would be interested in attempts to change the spring weight and tactility of the switch to further improve the tactile feedback or reduce the impact of bottoming-out. I'll try to update on how the lubed Browns go, as well as the possible 45 gr Browns.

Offline ramnes

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #72 on: Fri, 02 October 2020, 05:12:57 »
I'll probably build a kustom with 11800 browns soon™. Will report back if I like it or not.
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Offline pr0ximity

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #73 on: Fri, 02 October 2020, 07:35:22 »
I'll probably build a kustom with 11800 browns soon™. Will report back if I like it or not.

Interested to hear your take on it! Using my POM half plate with Browns on a thin h87a for work today. I’ve used Browns only on soft plates/no plate so far, but do have a spare aluminum plate here and some 11800 Browns. Might have to be build for this winter...
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Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #74 on: Fri, 02 October 2020, 10:36:10 »
I'll probably build a kustom with 11800 browns soon™. Will report back if I like it or not.

Interested to hear your take on it! Using my POM half plate with Browns on a thin h87a for work today. I’ve used Browns only on soft plates/no plate so far, but do have a spare aluminum plate here and some 11800 Browns. Might have to be build for this winter...

And how do you like it Mr Proximity
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Offline Polymer

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #75 on: Fri, 02 October 2020, 10:46:58 »
I'm planning to experiment with "Ergo Browns" soon.

I already have some lubed MX Browns with 55 gr Spirit springs on the way, and next I'm going to try 45 gr springs.

WRT what was said earlier on the thread, it is possible to train yourself to type lightly on the Browns and not bottom-out. Or at least barely bottom-out, so that you're not transmitting too much force to the board. You can easily float on Browns because of the light springs and low tactility. It's a good switch for that if you have hover hands like you're supposed to.

But I would be interested in attempts to change the spring weight and tactility of the switch to further improve the tactile feedback or reduce the impact of bottoming-out. I'll try to update on how the lubed Browns go, as well as the possible 45 gr Browns.

It is possible to train yourself to not bottom out or barely bottom out..but you're giving up speed.  The level of effort I've seen people spend trying to not bottom out, including messing up their form is just not a good thing. 

For a long time there was this notion that the tactile bump helps train you and the proper way of using mech keyboards was to not bottom out..that's just someone's made up pipe dream that keeps perpetuating over and over.


Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #76 on: Fri, 02 October 2020, 16:02:50 »
Yeah , true. If I use super light spring it doesn't really feel good to me because it's more trying NOT to bottom out than just typing fast!
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Offline Rayndalf

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #77 on: Fri, 02 October 2020, 18:27:52 »
I'm planning to experiment with "Ergo Browns" soon.

I already have some lubed MX Browns with 55 gr Spirit springs on the way, and next I'm going to try 45 gr springs.

WRT what was said earlier on the thread, it is possible to train yourself to type lightly on the Browns and not bottom-out. Or at least barely bottom-out, so that you're not transmitting too much force to the board. You can easily float on Browns because of the light springs and low tactility. It's a good switch for that if you have hover hands like you're supposed to.

But I would be interested in attempts to change the spring weight and tactility of the switch to further improve the tactile feedback or reduce the impact of bottoming-out. I'll try to update on how the lubed Browns go, as well as the possible 45 gr Browns.

It is possible to train yourself to not bottom out or barely bottom out..but you're giving up speed.  The level of effort I've seen people spend trying to not bottom out, including messing up their form is just not a good thing. 

For a long time there was this notion that the tactile bump helps train you and the proper way of using mech keyboards was to not bottom out..that's just someone's made up pipe dream that keeps perpetuating over and over.
In a weird way the bump is better for gaming than typing (occasionally you'd want to know exactly when a key will actuate and the bump gives you feedback if you're pressing it slowly).

The strength of browns IMO is that the feedback is easy to ignore when it isn't important, and doesn't require you to slam through a giant bump everytime (I found Zilents to be obnoxious because it was all bump so it was 3mm of travel everytime, and no travel before or after the bump). There is a big difference between typing to avoid bottoming out and being required to bottom out everytime, but both seem exhausting.

Offline hvontres

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #78 on: Fri, 02 October 2020, 18:48:58 »
While they aren't really "Browns" I have found that I like the Hako True switches for my build. They have enough of a bump that one can tell that a switch got hit, but not enough to feel harsh or in the way. And I like the way there is a positive curve on the force after the bump. While it won't keep me form allways bottoming out, it does help slow down your finger before you hit bottom. I think part of the reason that people are so concerned with bottoming out is that the need to bottom out on a rubber dome switch is probably one of the things that make them so horrible to use in the long run.

I came at this project after a couple of months of using a Model M at home during the lock down and I wanted something that felt comfortable yet would be less antagonizing in an office environment. Honestly, most of the "clicky" switches are kind of Meh compared to a buckling spring. Yes, you get the racket, but what most people don't recognize is that the "click" in a buckling spring is inherently synchronized to the switch actuation, unlike a blue or even a click bar switch where you are relying on the tolerance between the external event and a small bump on the stem of the switch.

I am probably in a minority of people who actually prefer a slightly heavier switch, but that is the beauty of this hobby. Rather then being stuck with whatever some marketing guy thought would sell, we can built exactly what works for us.
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Offline pr0ximity

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #79 on: Fri, 02 October 2020, 20:24:55 »
While they aren't really "Browns" I have found that I like the Hako True switches for my build. They have enough of a bump that one can tell that a switch got hit, but not enough to feel harsh or in the way. And I like the way there is a positive curve on the force after the bump. While it won't keep me form allways bottoming out, it does help slow down your finger before you hit bottom. I think part of the reason that people are so concerned with bottoming out is that the need to bottom out on a rubber dome switch is probably one of the things that make them so horrible to use in the long run.

I came at this project after a couple of months of using a Model M at home during the lock down and I wanted something that felt comfortable yet would be less antagonizing in an office environment. Honestly, most of the "clicky" switches are kind of Meh compared to a buckling spring. Yes, you get the racket, but what most people don't recognize is that the "click" in a buckling spring is inherently synchronized to the switch actuation, unlike a blue or even a click bar switch where you are relying on the tolerance between the external event and a small bump on the stem of the switch.

I am probably in a minority of people who actually prefer a slightly heavier switch, but that is the beauty of this hobby. Rather then being stuck with whatever some marketing guy thought would sell, we can built exactly what works for us.

Model M is great if you like a heavier switch, maybe even ideal. Very satisfying if you really hammer on the keys, but it wears me out too much. Model F is to Model M as MX Browns are to MX Clears, I could type on Model F all day.
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Offline Polymer

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #80 on: Fri, 02 October 2020, 22:48:14 »
I'm planning to experiment with "Ergo Browns" soon.

I already have some lubed MX Browns with 55 gr Spirit springs on the way, and next I'm going to try 45 gr springs.

WRT what was said earlier on the thread, it is possible to train yourself to type lightly on the Browns and not bottom-out. Or at least barely bottom-out, so that you're not transmitting too much force to the board. You can easily float on Browns because of the light springs and low tactility. It's a good switch for that if you have hover hands like you're supposed to.

But I would be interested in attempts to change the spring weight and tactility of the switch to further improve the tactile feedback or reduce the impact of bottoming-out. I'll try to update on how the lubed Browns go, as well as the possible 45 gr Browns.

It is possible to train yourself to not bottom out or barely bottom out..but you're giving up speed.  The level of effort I've seen people spend trying to not bottom out, including messing up their form is just not a good thing. 

For a long time there was this notion that the tactile bump helps train you and the proper way of using mech keyboards was to not bottom out..that's just someone's made up pipe dream that keeps perpetuating over and over.
In a weird way the bump is better for gaming than typing (occasionally you'd want to know exactly when a key will actuate and the bump gives you feedback if you're pressing it slowly).

The strength of browns IMO is that the feedback is easy to ignore when it isn't important, and doesn't require you to slam through a giant bump everytime (I found Zilents to be obnoxious because it was all bump so it was 3mm of travel everytime, and no travel before or after the bump). There is a big difference between typing to avoid bottoming out and being required to bottom out everytime, but both seem exhausting.

For me the tactile bump is there more for feel and rhythm since linears give you nothing..but as you said, not enough on the browns to force extra effort....I quite like brown but completely understand why some people do not.  And then you look at worn in browns..they're just great..the bump is cleaner and somehow the switch feels more stable..the bump is a single straight bump rather than what sometimes feels like a shakey bump with new browns...

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #81 on: Mon, 05 October 2020, 16:21:04 »
Guys I used to hate mx brown but I never knew that the keyboard that you have them in makes such a big difference

So make sure you have a really nice keyboard before you judge Mx brown user.
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Offline shadowcelery

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #82 on: Wed, 07 October 2020, 12:54:41 »
My first mechanical keyboard was a cherry brown board its honestly a pretty solid switch. I hadn't even tried them lubed until very recently.

Offline Darthbaggins

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #83 on: Wed, 07 October 2020, 15:46:32 »
Personally I've started to prefer the Otemu Browns over the Cherry Browns, feel a bit smoother - could still benefit from a lube and filming either way.  I have them in my board I have for work - a inexpensive Velocifire TKL01 (think I only paid $30 for it).  The MX-browns that were in my iKBC Poker II were extremely scratchy, fortunately those are now desoldered and in a bag in my desk for me to  use them for something else.

Offline ddrfraser1

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #84 on: Wed, 07 October 2020, 16:08:56 »
Would you guys please stop opening my mind to the merits of MX browns? I don't appreciate being pleasantly enlightened.

Offline Darthbaggins

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #85 on: Wed, 07 October 2020, 16:20:44 »
I'm happy with them on my board at work, but the Black Ink v1's I use at home are extremely relaxing  :))
Part of me wants to put a set of Jades in a board to annoy my staff though, lol.

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #86 on: Thu, 08 October 2020, 21:09:25 »
Personally I've started to prefer the Otemu Browns over the Cherry Browns, feel a bit smoother - could still benefit from a lube and filming either way.  I have them in my board I have for work - a inexpensive Velocifire TKL01 (think I only paid $30 for it).  The MX-browns that were in my iKBC Poker II were extremely scratchy, fortunately those are now desoldered and in a bag in my desk for me to  use them for something else.

Yeah my brother's friend has a keyboard with the Outemu browns. They're surprisingly smooth. Nicer than not retooled Cherry.

I don't care about sound anymore, and I rather like the feel of them. It's a medium tactility switch, definitely more tactility than normal Cherry brown.
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Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #87 on: Thu, 08 October 2020, 21:21:00 »
Yeah, a few things here.

First, some of the clone Browns are more interesting than the pre-retooled MX Browns.

Many people find the OUTEMU Browns to be more tactile. I found Kailh Browns to offer that extra bit of tactility, that makes them feel more substantial. However, the ones I demoed must have been worn-in, because they were smoother and nicer to operate than the fresh Kailh Browns I tried in hotswap - they were grittier and heavier than I would have liked. The Kailh Browns I demoed in-store were mounted in a low-profile alum "gaming" keyboard, and my hotswap was a similar, but not identical setup. I think the keyboard type and break-in makes a difference with those.

As for Browns being dependent on keyboard construction, that's probably true. The earliest Browns used softer plates, half-plates, or went plateless. Now they are jammed into aluminium and even steel plates in tight and strict set-ups. Some people who used Vints say that the modern mounting style of Cherry Browns is just harsher than in the past.

Vint Browns are said to be both smoother, and slightly more tactile than any modern MX Browns. I guess maybe they were closer to Zeal V1? I guess with the OxBloods, maybe we'll find out.

Yeah, mount style seems to be significant. And if the OxBloods work out, someone will have to throw them into a J80 / A06, so we can get a more throwback type setup.

A switch that may succeed at being a 'better Brown' is the Everglide Jade. It uses the Rara stem, which is a shaved-down T1 to have tactility at the intensity of MX Clear instead of T1. It is further put in a linear housing, so it's not getting T1-leaf tactility. It's like a Brown with a sharper, more pronounced bump, and is smoother. Once lubed, it sounds and feels great, offering just enough tactility, a little more satisfying than MX Brown.

The only problem is that it wobbles a bit. So you might have to film them. The next generations of switches using the Rara stem may improve upon this.

Offline Darthbaggins

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #88 on: Fri, 09 October 2020, 08:57:33 »
^ Might have to sample theses, I know I should tear down my Velocifire with the Otemu's since they do have a good amount of wobble, a bit 'o lube and some .15mm films should clean that up a bit.  I've debated on taking the MX Brown stems and swapping them into a linear housing just to mess around and see how it performs, but of course the only linear switches I have apart right now are my Mito Laser switches - was leaning more towards using something like a NK Dry/Silk housing.

Offline Riverman

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #89 on: Fri, 09 October 2020, 12:18:54 »
I had a Cherry G80-3494 with silent black linear switches that I swapped brown stems and springs into.  It was very nice to type on.  The switches were light and as tactile as a Cherry brown switch gets, but I can't say that I noticed any difference between that one and a Cherry G80-3000 I also had that came from the factory with brown switches.  At least in that very unscientific comparison, the housings didn't seem to make a difference.  I did think that the G80 was pretty noisy with brown switches, probably because of its thin, hollow case.

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #90 on: Fri, 09 October 2020, 14:55:52 »
^ Might have to sample theses, I know I should tear down my Velocifire with the Otemu's since they do have a good amount of wobble, a bit 'o lube and some .15mm films should clean that up a bit.  I've debated on taking the MX Brown stems and swapping them into a linear housing just to mess around and see how it performs, but of course the only linear switches I have apart right now are my Mito Laser switches - was leaning more towards using something like a NK Dry/Silk housing.

Never heard of anyone putting Brown into a linear housing! Usually, they are aiming for more tactility with Browns.

[I recently saw a post where someone praised the MX Brown housing, saying that it offered a helpful amount / balance of tactility and smoothness. Must have been a retooled Brown, or a Vint! But yes, I think we have to consider the possibility that, for many peoples' needs, a properly-built Brown switch offers the right amount of tactility and smoothness.]

Also, if you are going for the Everglide Jades, be sure to lube them. The best results for me were a liberal application of 3204. Make sure to lube the springs as well. They're good springs, and lube fixes most of the switch's problems.

Offline Darthbaggins

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #91 on: Fri, 09 October 2020, 16:45:47 »
Good to know, I have stocked up on lube as of lately since it was not the easiest thing to get for a little while back in March/April (I have 205g0, 3204, 3203, 105, & dielectric which I normally have for automotive reasons).  Was thinking the Kaihl Jades, want a thick and pronounced click for the warehouse desk board in a MX variant, lol.  Was also debating on just using them in a custom macro or num-pad instead of a whole board.
« Last Edit: Fri, 09 October 2020, 16:48:20 by Darthbaggins »

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #92 on: Fri, 09 October 2020, 22:04:14 »
If you discount browns for the lack of tactility, then you do not understand the point of the switch as a whole.

Offline pr0ximity

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #93 on: Fri, 09 October 2020, 22:24:19 »
If you discount browns for the lack of tactility, then you do not understand the point of the switch as a whole.

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Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #94 on: Sat, 10 October 2020, 10:56:38 »
I agree, but people often wonder if something like an MX Brown could be made, with just a little more satisfying tactility.

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #95 on: Sat, 10 October 2020, 11:03:05 »
Tp4 LOVES MX-Brown.

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Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #96 on: Sat, 10 October 2020, 16:52:37 »
Interesting video - this guy has a theory about hate for Browns. You know how everyone was recommended MX Brown back in the day? He thinks that people went out and bought the most 'affordable' keyboard to access Browns, and often they were poorly-built gaming keyboards. That soured them on Browns. So it's a board build-quality issue.


However, I don't think that's the main factor. I think he's half-right. Lots and lots of people were told to get MX Browns. So they did. But if they were looking for a "tactile" switch, the Browns would not have been enough.

This has been discussed before, but I think it's a 'false advertising' issue. Marketing these switches as 'tactiles' was a mistake that caused hate.

Offline macclack

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #97 on: Sat, 10 October 2020, 22:33:32 »
Interesting video - this guy has a theory about hate for Browns. You know how everyone was recommended MX Brown back in the day? He thinks that people went out and bought the most 'affordable' keyboard to access Browns, and often they were poorly-built gaming keyboards. That soured them on Browns. So it's a board build-quality issue.


However, I don't think that's the main factor. I think he's half-right. Lots and lots of people were told to get MX Browns. So they did. But if they were looking for a "tactile" switch, the Browns would not have been enough.

This has been discussed before, but I think it's a 'false advertising' issue. Marketing these switches as 'tactiles' was a mistake that caused hate.

There's some truth in this video—I recently built a Klippe S with Cherry browns and love typing on it. I know nothing about the Ducky he upgraded to other than seeing it online. Is it really that big of an upgrade from the Corsair?

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #98 on: Sat, 10 October 2020, 23:46:30 »
I've only ever demoed a Corsair in-store. They're not so bad in-store. They could choose one with no defects and with a good batch of switches for the display keyboard.

In a crowded, busy store, you can't really hear the spring ping or case reverb all that well. Rattling stabs, hollowness and echoes, and an inconsistent sound profile across the board might not become immediately apparent. You just see the shiny case amidst a store full of overbright lights.

So these negative features of many common 'gaming' keyboards are easily overlooked. Not to mention bad PCBs and other things that will screw up the typing experience over time, or cause outright board failure.

At home, quietly typing, is where a Ducky might prove superior. It could be sturdier [you don't always move display boards around in the store], it might be thockier due to case design, the stabs are probably better and not as rattly, the PBT keycaps will offer subtle advantages here as well. So my view is that the subtleties that make a Ducky better [and especially a Varmilo or Leopold] won't be immediately apparent in a store, when compared to a Corsair.

So it would be easy for a new person to see a flashy Corsair and be impressed by that, even though a Ducky or especially Leopold/Varmilo might deliver a better long-term experience with MX Browns. To be fair, though, I've seen a number of gaming keyboards actually using good MX Brown switches. I just think that other elements of the board may be deficient.
« Last Edit: Sat, 10 October 2020, 23:48:46 by HungerMechanic »

Offline macclack

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #99 on: Sun, 11 October 2020, 15:39:06 »
So my view is that the subtleties that make a Ducky better [and especially a Varmilo or Leopold] won't be immediately apparent in a store, when compared to a Corsair.

Yes, that was my exact reaction. A true upgrade would most likely be in the form of a Varmilo or Leopold—they are about as good as it gets for non-custom IMO. But as I said, I haven't used a Ducky so I'm wasn't sure if they're in the same league.