[IC] Custom MX/ALPS mini Keyboard (07-16 Update)

[calavera]

Since there doesn't seem to be enough interest for PCB/plate only, I've talked to GON and made a complete kit an option.
Note that to build this board (ALPS or MX) you'll need to source your own switches and key caps.

PCB Specs:

• Alps/MX hybrid - solder holes for both ALPS and MX
• PS/2 NKRO (USB may or may not be an option)
• Full LED support (full on/off, light up on press, light off on press, fading aka "breathing"..etc)
• Dual bottom row: Winkeyless* (1.5 mods and 7 space bar) or Winkey (1.25 mods and 6.25 space bar)
• SMD soldering may be required

Compatible cases:

• LZ MX mini/SE aluminium
• GON's NS MX-mini case
• GON's NS Alps-mini case (if MOQ is reached)

*For reference, here is a winkeyless layout:



So you have two choices:

Kit 1: Alps/MX PCB ($30-40*) + Alps plate for LZ cases ($25-35*) 
Kit 2: Alps/MX PCB ($30-40*) + GON ALPS-mini case** ($160*)

*Price is just a rough estimate. Does not include shipping & handling fees.
**GON ALPS-mini case will only be possible if Kit 2 MOQ reaches 20.

For GON's current line up of cases go here

Current List:

calavera (kit1 x3, kit2 x1)
Batmann (kit1 x1, kit2 x1)
tgujay (kit1 x1)
ekw808 (kit1 x1)
hellocodes (kit1 x2)
hoasican2004 (kit1 x2) if acrylic case is available
Batmann (kit1 x1, kit2 x1)
hellocodes (kit1 x1, kit2 x1)
agodinhost (kit1 x2)
AKIMbO (kit2 x1)
Grimey (kit1 x2)
Kayliss (kit2 x1)
MTManiac (kit1x 2)


Interest check for Alps key caps is up: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45879.0

[Batmann]

highly interested, count me in

[quochung1989]

What material do you produce plate? Mica, stainless steel or aluminum ....

[calavera]

Most likely steel. Still considering aluminium too though.

[AKIMbO]

Dude....why no case. I need a case too!

[calavera]

I might be able to find plans for an acrylic case so people can build their own but that's the extent of it.

[boost]

This can expand beyond the lz mx.

[calavera]

Sure, the PCB could be made to be universal (like multiple USB/PS2 locations) but the plate will be exclusive to the case design due to mounting locations.

[boost]

It wouldn't he hard to make an aluminum case once the plate is made.

[calavera]

I could look into it but a full alu case wont be cheap and I really don't even know where to start.

[boost]

You'll need the pcb specs and plate file to start a case.

[calavera]

Currently I have the basic outlines for the plate and PCB. So designing a case around it should be easy enough.

[tgujay]

Custom ALPS PCB and plate? Count me in.

[ekw808]

I'd be in for 1

[Batmann]

Any idea of MOQ for an LZ alps plate and PCB?
a Trik pcb would be an even bigger turn on

[calavera]

Ideally 20 PCB's but at this rate not sure if we can reach even half. Will update post with list of people interested.

[tgujay]

Ideally 20 PCB's but at this rate not sure if we can reach even half. Will update post with list of people interested.

If we reach 20 how much would each PCB be?  If they're cheap enough I would be in for a couple.

[calavera]

I was being generous with the price estimate in OP but I won't have exact pricing until the PCB design is finished and ready for production.

[tgujay]

I was being generous with the price estimate in OP but I won't have exact pricing until the PCB design is finished and ready for production.

Generous high or low?

[calavera]

High. But everything is subject to change. This may even not happen so we'll see.

[tgujay]

High. But everything is subject to change. This may even not happen so we'll see.

Make it happen Captain!  I believe in you!

[calavera]

Updated thread to reflect changes.

[tgujay]

By being both ALPS and MX compatible would it be separate traces or could you have both at the same time like ALPS 37 with MX numpad or something?

[calavera]

You can combine it however you like. Both alps and mx solder points share the same trace.

[tgujay]

You can combine it however you like. Both alps and mx solder points share the same trace.

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiicceeeeeeeeee.

[calavera]

Actually I should clarify. Alps switches won't be as "secure" compared to real alps plates because the plate needs to accommodate both cherry and MX.
In a real alps plate, the switch is secured on all four sides where as in this hybrid plate the alps switch is only held on by two sides. But since they're soldered to the PCB this shouldn't cause any problems. And because of this, MX switches cannot be opened once soldered on.

[calavera]

To make things easier, I'm thinking the space bar will be fixed as a cherry switch.
This way I only need to work out a fix for the left shift, enter and backspace stabilizers.

[tgujay]

To make things easier, I'm thinking the space bar will be fixed as a cherry switch.
This way I only need to work out a fix for the left shift, enter and backspace stabilizers.

Make it ALPS only?  We already have a custom MX board and honsetly I feel like an ALPS/MX hybrid board would just be weird.

[pshay]

If you produced a  LZ-SE keyboard, I'll buy it.
Lz-se's side of the arc look good. It's my dream keyboard！
Forgive my poor english.

[calavera]

If you produced a  LZ-SE keyboard, I'll buy it.
Lz-se's side of the arc look good. It's my dream keyboard！
Forgive my poor english.

Absolutely NOT gonna happen.

[codyeatworld]

I'd be interested in 2! and maybe 1 if there are acrylic cases?

[hoasican2004]

I'd be interested in 2! and maybe 1 if there are acrylic cases?

I do, too 

[calavera]

My guess is acrylic cases will cost anywhere between 80-100ish.

I contacted GON because his cases have superior materials, quality, and finish. If I narrow down the color choices down to TWO only, pricing of a GON case will be slightly lower than 160. That's quite reasonable for anodized aluminium/acrylic combo imo.

[tgujay]

My guess is acrylic cases will cost anywhere between 80-100ish.

I contacted GON because his cases have superior materials, quality, and finish. If I narrow down the color choices down to TWO only, pricing of a GON case will be slightly lower than 160. That's quite reasonable for anodized aluminium/acrylic combo imo.

I just want a custom ALPS PCB :/

[CPTBadAss]

I just want a custom ALPS PCB :/

If you can't get a PCB from this buy, you might be able to get one from the GH60 Alps project or the TKL Alps board. You could also check those out.

[Batmann]

Sounds good Calavera, good job
I'll go for 1x kit1 for sure and maybe 1x kit2 depending on the payment deadline

[codyeatworld]

Sounds good Calavera, good job
I'll go for 1x kit1 for sure and maybe 1x kit2 depending on the payment deadline

Same here!

My guess is acrylic cases will cost anywhere between 80-100ish.

I contacted GON because his cases have superior materials, quality, and finish. If I narrow down the color choices down to TWO only, pricing of a GON case will be slightly lower than 160. That's quite reasonable for anodized aluminium/acrylic combo imo.

So I guess itll be up to me to find an acrylic case.

$160 is a great price, I think its polycarbonate not acrylic for his cases too.

[agodinhost]

Interested on 2x Kit 1 here.

[AKIMbO]

Interested in one kit #2

[Grimey]

Interested in 2x kit #1.

[Kayliss]

Interested in kit #2.

GON's cases are really great quality, certainly $160 is a good price.

[calavera]

If you guys agree on one color GON said he can have the cases made for less than $150. Will update thread with list of people interesred.

[pasph]

What will be pre-sodered on PCB?

[calavera]

What will be pre-sodered on PCB?

Can't say for sure right now. Still working out details on plates and PCB.

[codyeatworld]

If you guys agree on one color GON said he can have the cases made for less than $150. Will update thread with list of people interesred.

What about the hard anodized gray?

[calavera]

Whatever GON is currently offering goes, so hard anodizing is available but at additional cost from his base $160 price.

But the whole point is to narrow down color choices down to one or two to lower total cost of the kit. If there isn't 20 orders for his ALPS-mini case, it won't happen.

[AKIMbO]

If you guys agree on one color GON said he can have the cases made for less than $150. Will update thread with list of people interesred.

What about the hard anodized gray?

I'm cool with grey hard anno

[agodinhost]

any dark color would be good for me.
no for pink, lemon green or other alien colors here.

[pasph]

Interested in kit2 but don't want to do SMD soldering and want a preloaded firmware
Color: not pink

[agodinhost]

Guys, please, I do need some help here:

Calavera reference design, using 19,00mm


Sometime ago I did asked about the 1U correct size and Matt3o said it was 19,00mm. A few posts later I think that JD/WFD mentioned that the correct dimension would be 19,05 exactly.

To get an exact match with Calavera reference design above I do need to use 1U = 19,00mm.
That's okay?

[bazemk1979]

all of this talk and no talk about alps ds keycaps....

[CPTBadAss]

jdcarpe is currently talking to SP about Alps caps. Apparently SP is having issue with the larger sized caps though. I know the Kingsaver required the owner to buy a specific board to harvest caps/stabs from. I'm not really sure what Calavera is planning here but the TKL Alps projects might go to the harvest plan if we can't get anyone to make caps.

[calavera]

I emailed SP for a quote for just the odd key caps that are harder to source but haven't got a response. But based on the small run I'm doing, I don't think its affordable.

Right now I'm trying to get the PCB and plate finished first though. Unfortunately the guy that designed the MX/Alps backed out but agodinhost offered to help so everything is still on track so far.

GON has also agreed to make alps cases for the people that are on the list despite the low volume for his current prices. Colors will have to be narrowed down to one or two to streamline the process.

[Kayliss]

GON has also agreed to make alps cases for the people that are on the list despite the low volume for his current prices. Colors will have to be narrowed down to one or two to streamline the process.

GON is a good guy.  Thanks for your work Calavera/Agodinghost and others involved. This is a very interesting project!

[bazemk1979]

jdcarpe is currently talking to SP about Alps caps. Apparently SP is having issue with the larger sized caps though. I know the Kingsaver required the owner to buy a specific board to harvest caps/stabs from. I'm not really sure what Calavera is planning here but the TKL Alps projects might go to the harvest plan if we can't get anyone to make caps.

Ok lets be realistic about this one, no keycap GB's no good sales for that particular keyboard, right? not fault of the people that are trying to make the TKL and mini factor happen with alps, but having a keyboard without options for caps is practically nothing.

Take the best looking Korean KB, with the nice looking casing bottom design such the MX mini SE or the Trixk, and then decorate it with old, used, yellowed keycaps. Some keycaps fit, then some don't, so you end up with mix of 2 boards.....

I actually was excited about the TKL project, though well don't have to be full aluminum casing, just the bottom would look cool or if price is not way too high then I might get the top casing too, but now knowing that I have to be getting keycaps as leftovers.... I rather spend the money on next small factor LZ keyboard, at least it will look good with new keycaps on it, and we have so many options for keycaps these days, GMK, BSP, DSA....

[CPTBadAss]

I don't understand what you're complaining about. I just said that we're exploring options to get new keycap sets. I'm just telling you that *might* be the backup plan.

You know you can get rid of the yellowing right? Retr0brite still works last I checked...

[Techno Trousers]

Nobody said being a keyboard enthusiast would be easy. Especially if you like an old school, nearly-dead switch like Alps!

[bazemk1979]

I don't understand what you're complaining about. I just said that we're exploring options to get new keycap sets. I'm just telling you that *might* be the backup plan.

You know you can get rid of the yellowing right? Retr0brite still works last I checked...

I'm not complaining bud, all I'm saying you can retrobrite the heck out of them but at the end your left with mix and match from old boards that only color choice is white and beige, and if you have to mix and match you might end up with DS and lasered keycaps mix.

Pretty much that's the end of the road for that board, its a dead end board in the long run if we cant have GB's for keycaps.

Your looking into production that cant have keycaps compatible from GB maeby 10-15 boards max, and keycaps compatible 30+ boards maeby?

[bazemk1979]

Nobody said being a keyboard enthusiast would be easy. Especially if you like an old school, nearly-dead switch like Alps!

you said it near dead switch!!! IC for alps board are half way there, the other half is the keycaps GB's. I would not want to spend 300 for a board that will look mediocre at best and at the end it end up in the closet.

Any ways props to people trying to make this happen.

[CPTBadAss]

1) I'm not complaining bud, all I'm saying you can retrobrite the heck out of them but at the end your left with mix and match from old boards that only color choice is white and beige, and if you have to mix and match you might end up with DS and lasered keycaps mix.

2) Pretty much that's the end of the road for that board, its a dead end board in the long run if we cant have GB's for keycaps.

3) Your looking into production that cant have keycaps compatible from GB maeby 10-15 boards max, and keycaps compatible 30+ boards maeby?

1) Why do you have to mix and match? If we're going by the Kingsaver example, you buy a Wang 724, then take the caps and stabs and put them on the Kingsaver. If we have to do the backup plan, we'd do that. Buy one board and use all the caps, no mix and match.

2) Most people seem to buy one set to match their board and not swap caps/sets.

3) Seems like it and it seems like you're complaining that you're not getting to swap sets.

[bazemk1979]

1) I'm not complaining bud, all I'm saying you can retrobrite the heck out of them but at the end your left with mix and match from old boards that only color choice is white and beige, and if you have to mix and match you might end up with DS and lasered keycaps mix.

2) Pretty much that's the end of the road for that board, its a dead end board in the long run if we cant have GB's for keycaps.

3) Your looking into production that cant have keycaps compatible from GB maeby 10-15 boards max, and keycaps compatible 30+ boards maeby?

1) Why do you have to mix and match? If we're going by the Kingsaver example, you buy a Wang 724, then take the caps and stabs and put them on the Kingsaver. If we have to do the backup plan, we'd do that. Buy one board and use all the caps, no mix and match.

2) Most people seem to buy one set to match their board and not swap caps/sets.

3) Seems like it and it seems like you're complaining that you're not getting to swap sets.

badass I have only 1 thing to say, 90% of the GB's here are for keycaps.

[AKIMbO]

Blah blah blah..akimbro wants an awesome mini alps board and calavera is gonna make it happen like a bawse.

[pasph]

1) Why do you have to mix and match? If we're going by the Kingsaver example, you buy a Wang 724, then take the caps and stabs and put them on the Kingsaver. If we have to do the backup plan, we'd do that. Buy one board and use all the caps, no mix and match.

Wang 724 hasn't a 1,75 shift

[calavera]

Wang 724 has an unusually long right shift, enter, backspace, and \ key hat won't fit any other keyboard for that matter.

I sent out an email to SP again. Hopefully they'll respond this time. But not gonna hold my breath.

[bazemk1979]

whats the problem with the alps keys that SP produce? is it not having good fit with the stabilizires, or the stems?

EDIT: My bad going hot headed on this thread regarding keycaps compatability, caffeine shortage yesterday..... Big props to Calavera and the group of peeps that try to run the TKL alps project, huge props!

[Hak Foo]

Wang 724 has an unusually long right shift, enter, backspace, and \ key hat won't fit any other keyboard for that matter.

I sent out an email to SP again. Hopefully they'll respond this time. But not gonna hold my breath.

I think there may be multiple boards known as Wang 724s.

The one that seemed to be widely bought had:

* Dyesub keys
* Unusual legends on function keys (F17/F1 or the like, IIRC)
* Possibly a 1.1x Escape.
* Shorter than normal control/alt keys
* Unusual editing block
* Unusual numpad

Now the latter two may not matter for a 60% design, but

[calavera]

Major update coming. Well, sort of.

[vivalarevolución]

Major update coming. Well, sort of.

I'm excited.

[calavera]

Here it is:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45879.new#new

Going to try to have key caps to go with it!

[pasph]

in that set there will be also a 1,75 shift?
the stabs will be Costar?

[calavera]

in that set there will be also a 1,75 shift?
the stabs will be Costar?

Yes. 1.75 shift is in the tsangan kit.
The stabs has not been decided yet.

[___q]

If this GB and the associated keycap GB both happen, and we make MOQ for the GON boards, I would be in for a kit 2 and the caps (probably all three sets of the caps just for future-proofness).

(though I am not interested if I can't get both the keycaps and the case).

I hope this goes through!

[calavera]

These will happen. It's just a matter of time.

GON has agreed to make the cases regardless of MOQ as long as there's more than a few orders for it. This is because he has to make samples and test for fitment and quality so it's up to his standards. Pricing is the same as his MX Mini case which is $160. Which also means you're all free to chose whatever color you guys want.

[___q]

These will happen. It's just a matter of time.

GON has agreed to make the cases regardless of MOQ as long as there's more than a few orders for it. This is because he has to make samples and test for fitment and quality so it's up to his standards. Pricing is the same as his MX Mini case which is $160. Which also means you're all free to chose whatever color you guys want.

Awesome! Super exited for this one, then!

[pasph]

There are some PCB details?

[agodinhost]

There are some PCB details?

Not yet - I'm waiting for calavera's plate in order to check the positions of the switches before I do it's design.
You know - just to avoid mistakes regarding machine cuts ...
As soon as he gets the plate we will do the checking then I'll draw the PCB ...

[pasph]

Isn't the plate a GON's design?

[calavera]

GON isn't designing anything. Once the plate and pcb is done he gets the file and sample pcb so he can make his cases based on that.

But right now I'm trying to sort out the stabilizer problem with the key caps first. A lot on my plate right now.

[agodinhost]

Calavera, any news regarding the plate?

[calavera]

Need to finalize the keycap modifier stem situation with SP first. Then the plates. Then the PCB in that order.

[simkev]

What controller is used on the board?
Is it programmable?
Does it support a fn-layer?

[cgbuen]

Interested in a Kit 2. Especially if the ALPS key GB includes the correct profile right-side caps (Home, PgUp, PgDn, End).

[calavera]

What controller is used on the board?
Is it programmable?
Does it support a fn-layer?

It will be the same as the GH60.

Interested in a Kit 2. Especially if the ALPS key GB includes the correct profile right-side caps (Home, PgUp, PgDn, End).

Thats the plan.

[agodinhost]

Need to finalize the keycap modifier stem situation with SP first. Then the plates. Then the PCB in that order.

Okay.
Please, could you note me when you get the plate done?
I'm kinda off in these last days ...

[simkev]

Is it possible to get only the pcb, no plate?

[agodinhost]

Is it possible to get only the pcb, no plate?

I'll work in the PCB - however the PCB is affected by the switches position that's affected by the stabs position I suppose.

We decided to wait until all switches / stabs positioning issues are resolved in order to design the PCB  - it's a way to save time.

I already started the PCB to see the board size and to try the switches position against the Plate.
I can work into the PCB but I will have to review it in case of changes in the Plate.
Make sense?

[Nick Lee]

INTERESTED!

[Nask]

Also interested as well
I definitely need to try ALPS on a new keyboard.

[MTManiac]

very interested in this!!!

I would love to throw some old alps whites and blues into a mini keyboard
heck, I would probably have to buy two and make one of each!

[TDub]

Interessted!

[aj-kun]

is this project still alive calavera?

[calavera]

Yes it is but it might take awhile. Keycaps will happen first.

[bahamot]

Any possibilities on offering full assembled unit?

[calavera]

Not from me. But you could have your set shipped to one of the reputable builders here yo assemble and then ship to you.

[agodinhost]

Any news?
ZZZzzzz...

[calavera]

Waiting on WFD to come back.

[r3n_uneducated]

very interesting KB )
Look for any news ))

[Pacifist]

sort of interested

[Photoelectric]

sort of interested

But sort of not!?

[Pacifist]

sort of interested

But sort of not!?

don't know if I want moar 75%