Author Topic: What are products that you regret buying?  (Read 3020 times)

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Offline Indigu

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What are products that you regret buying?
« on: Mon, 17 May 2021, 10:36:28 »
Are there any certain products that filled you with excitement but you wished to receive your money back after purchasing them?

Offline MIGHTY CHICKEN

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 17 May 2021, 11:06:38 »
My womier k66 and 4 custom deskmats that are stuck in limbo shipping

Offline Riverman

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 17 May 2021, 11:30:56 »
My biggest regrets are a WASD Code keyboard with MX Clears and a Cherry MX Board 6.0.  They both had so much potential, but the Code keyboard's stabilizers were ridiculously rattly and the MX Board was let down by only being available with red switches.  At least those two gave me of an idea of what I didn't want in a keyboard.

Offline Rubbermilitia

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 17 May 2021, 11:46:26 »
There are plenty of products which I realized I didn't want/need upon receiving, but none which I regret purchasing. Each product I didn't end up keeping taught me something new about the hobby, or about my personal preferences.

Teachable moments:
- stainless steel plate for orange alps board. Couldn't stand the rigidity or the ping for more than an hour.
- same thing but with brass plate. Sound was better than steel, but still too dense/rigid for my comfort.
- a large TKL was my first custom. Looked like a behemoth on my desk. Learned quickly that I liked smaller boards.
- a super hyped custom 65% board. Bought into the hype, typing feel was supposed to be amazing, factory was supposed to be incredible, etc. In reality, GB runner was a jerk, case had ano imperfections and machine scratches, brass plate finishing had imperfections, there was a huge gap between the case and weight, and there were reports of case screws stripping. I no longer buy into hype.
- a GB that failed miserably because the runner had no experience and took on way too many units. I now research gb runners before joining.
- silenced switches. I dont like the reduced travel or uncrisp bottom out.

And probably a lot more. But yeah, dont regret purchases, just learn from them. Fail upward lol

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


Offline Indigu

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 17 May 2021, 11:50:47 »
There are plenty of products which I realized I didn't want/need upon receiving, but none which I regret purchasing. Each product I didn't end up keeping taught me something new about the hobby, or about my personal preferences.

Teachable moments:
- stainless steel plate for orange alps board. Couldn't stand the rigidity or the ping for more than an hour.
- same thing but with brass plate. Sound was better than steel, but still too dense/rigid for my comfort.
- a large TKL was my first custom. Looked like a behemoth on my desk. Learned quickly that I liked smaller boards.
- a super hyped custom 65% board. Bought into the hype, typing feel was supposed to be amazing, factory was supposed to be incredible, etc. In reality, GB runner was a jerk, case had ano imperfections and machine scratches, brass plate finishing had imperfections, there was a huge gap between the case and weight, and there were reports of case screws stripping. I no longer buy into hype.
- a GB that failed miserably because the runner had no experience and took on way too many units. I now research gb runners before joining.
- silenced switches. I dont like the reduced travel or uncrisp bottom out.

And probably a lot more. But yeah, dont regret purchases, just learn from them. Fail upward lol

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

That seems like a good philosophy. Thank you for sharing your experiences!

Offline Jsza99

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 17 May 2021, 12:30:59 »
The biggest one being used vintage mx blacks. They weren't bad or anything, I just didn't have enough time to rigorously clean them all, lube, and film them. Seller didn't accept returns so ended up trading on r/mm

Offline gh_pp

  • Posts: 197
Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 17 May 2021, 12:48:54 »
Literately anything I purchased that ended up didn't get used.

1. Don't want to return everything just because it doesn't work for me (because I tried so many things and it's unfair to all the merchants as the products are not defective)

2. Selling in aftermarket is a huge time sink with all the commitment for family and work, but ultimately the process is just very unpleasant - listing, messaging, packaging, setting expectation, mailing, etc.

3. I hate clutter.

But I'm also OCD in my quest to find what work for me.

After 15+ boards, all sorts of parts, keycap sets, etc.
I finally found what worked for me (cherry profile thick PBT caps, split spacebar QMK-powered 75%/TKL)

QFR brown x2, Realforce 45G, Type-S, Keycool 22 blue

Previous keyboards: 55G, IBM Model M, Dell AT101W, Fujitsu FKB4725, G80-3000 clear, QFS green, QFS blue

[WTB] Custom keyboard build

Offline yester64

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 17 May 2021, 14:18:50 »
Happy Hacking keyboard.
Sure, Topre is fun. Mechanical and not really.
But if you ever have to clean it out and place all those rubber cones in the right place. Have fun.
In my opinion, its the worst.
I have one, and it tool me awhile to get it back together and working. I still have one key that does not work. Great if you never pour anything in it. Conductive grease helps greatly.
Rosewill RK-9000BR (trashed)
WASD V1 Keyboard Cherry Blue w/40A Hardness O-Rings
Steelseries 6GV2 Red Cherry Switches

Offline Sup

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 17 May 2021, 14:57:02 »
Happy Hacking keyboard.
Sure, Topre is fun. Mechanical and not really.
But if you ever have to clean it out and place all those rubber cones in the right place. Have fun.
In my opinion, its the worst.
I have one, and it tool me awhile to get it back together and working. I still have one key that does not work. Great if you never pour anything in it. Conductive grease helps greatly.

Hmm weird that this happened to you. My 18 year old HHKB pro 1 never had a issue and let me say that keyboard was taken apart a lot in its life time. Also for the multiple other HHKB Pro 2/1 i had in my hobby times.
current
Filco Zero -  NOS Yellow Alps | Canoe R1 Gateron Red | AEK II JP Cream dampend |Filco Majestouch 2 Tex case Gateron Yellow | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev AO Serial 000171 | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev A1s|DZ60 OG Panda's with Fei spring and stem. | Sentraq S65_Plus OG Invyr Panda's | A17 Gateron Black TX 65G 3204 | Lubrigrante Wildcard Cherry MX silent blacks 3204 58.5G Springs | Rukia Everglide Tourmaline Blue 58.5G Springs | MGA Standard Greetech brown |
Coming soon
Rest in peace Billy Herrington(William Glen Harold Herrington) 1969-2018
Rest in peace Byron Daniel 1989-2020

Offline yester64

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 17 May 2021, 16:23:55 »
I think the problem is that its not one piece but rather pieces of rubber. So it makes it quite challenging to take it out and back.
But more is the connectivity i think.
The keyboard works fine, but i feel that since i took apart the keys feels different. Not sure why.
What i liked in the beginning is the quietness.  But i discovered later that its not the best keyboard for me.
Rosewill RK-9000BR (trashed)
WASD V1 Keyboard Cherry Blue w/40A Hardness O-Rings
Steelseries 6GV2 Red Cherry Switches

Offline Sup

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 17 May 2021, 17:51:38 »
I think the problem is that its not one piece but rather pieces of rubber. So it makes it quite challenging to take it out and back.
But more is the connectivity i think.
The keyboard works fine, but i feel that since i took apart the keys feels different. Not sure why.
What i liked in the beginning is the quietness.  But i discovered later that its not the best keyboard for me.

not really the domes fit into a slot so i don't see why it would be challenging to put the domes back. I would check if you seated the domes well or not it makes all the differences in feel.
current
Filco Zero -  NOS Yellow Alps | Canoe R1 Gateron Red | AEK II JP Cream dampend |Filco Majestouch 2 Tex case Gateron Yellow | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev AO Serial 000171 | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev A1s|DZ60 OG Panda's with Fei spring and stem. | Sentraq S65_Plus OG Invyr Panda's | A17 Gateron Black TX 65G 3204 | Lubrigrante Wildcard Cherry MX silent blacks 3204 58.5G Springs | Rukia Everglide Tourmaline Blue 58.5G Springs | MGA Standard Greetech brown |
Coming soon
Rest in peace Billy Herrington(William Glen Harold Herrington) 1969-2018
Rest in peace Byron Daniel 1989-2020

Offline pixelpusher

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 17 May 2021, 18:05:38 »
Sony MiniDisc player/recorder
Sony HD Camera
Sony Sound bar for my TV

Pretty much anything Sony...

Keyboard stuff?  Hyperglide Cherry switches (they're even worse than the old switches), any kind of Otemu switch (why do I keep trying them), Epoch 80 from KBDFans

Offline Faceman76

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 17 May 2021, 18:13:20 »
A popular brand ortho.  Nothing wrong with the product, but I didn't realize how much it would slow me down.  I gave it a few weeks to get used to it, but it's just not for me.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

TKC 1800, Crystal Box Navy, Sprit 100g

Offline clankgy1

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 17 May 2021, 23:20:54 »
There is a group buy that I bought into over a year ago.  Not going to get into details, but I will consider myself lucky if I ever see a working product from it.
RF87U 55g | FC660M x2 | KBD67 | Tokyo60 | Key65 (soon) | Jules (ordered)

Offline dxxbox

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 18 May 2021, 00:47:49 »
FILCO for sure. I should have came across with customize firstly.

Offline yui

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 18 May 2021, 01:31:43 »
my cheap TKL kit (do not remember the model name) and the 87 brown switches i soldered in it, neither were great and the full package ended up costing way to much (around 120 for a keyboard you can find for about 50 on ebay/aliexpress...)
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline jamster

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 18 May 2021, 01:40:59 »
Atreus (44 key ergo/split board) via Kickstarter.

The campaign itself ran like clockwork- it was the best crowdfunding campaign I've ever sent money to, totally brilliant. The product itself was also very well produced.

The downside was that in the months that it took to produce, I tried enough ergo/split layouts to realise that I do not like using keyboard layers, so the Atreus was totally useless for my specific needs. It's still sitting around unused in a box, but at least it barely takes up any space. Hopefully I can sell it some day, but the market is understandably non-liquid for something like this.

I bought and wrecked a Cherry 1800 years ago, but besides wasting some money, don't regret it because it taught me that my time is better spent on other things than desoldering a hundred switches off a PCB. e.g. by staring at a wall and watching paint dry.
« Last Edit: Tue, 18 May 2021, 01:42:59 by jamster »

Offline Ranger_Trivette

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 18 May 2021, 04:01:50 »
everything with RGB leds.

now i don't like them. but everything in my room shine.
yes, i can turn them off, but is not the same.

Offline Faceman76

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 18 May 2021, 04:02:56 »


I bought and wrecked a Cherry 1800 years ago, but besides wasting some money, don't regret it because it taught me that my time is better spent on other things than desoldering a hundred switches off a PCB. e.g. by staring at a wall and watching paint dry.
TKC's 1800 board is light years ahead of Cherry's.  Besides being programmable, the pads do not lift as easily and no need to worry about soldering switches and jumpers everywhere.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

TKC 1800, Crystal Box Navy, Sprit 100g

Offline Aritega

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 18 May 2021, 14:42:32 »
Some of these aren't related to keyboards but I thought of counting them as part of products I regret buying.

Corsair M65:
Uncomfortable shape, heavy and too big for my small hands. Right now I'm using the Razer Viper Mini and I love how small and lightweight it is.

GK61:
I got unlucky and it arrived with broken LEDs on a few keys (what I remember the most is the shift key). Communicating with the seller was very confusing so I gave up and turn off the lighting.

Durock Koala:
Some of the switches lose its tactility after typing for a month. Very uneven typing feel.
The stem also became very loose but I think it's my JTK Bred that had very tight stems and a few loose ones (atleast I was able to return it and get a refund).

Logitech G920:
They have these 2 knobs that help adjust the height of the clamp and hold the desk. They were so cheap that one of the knobs got stuck after pushing it in. After 20 minutes of getting it back out, I remind myself to only adjust the clamps and never push the right knob. I'm still wondering why it gets stuck sometimes.
« Last Edit: Tue, 18 May 2021, 20:08:30 by Aritega »

Offline Brigand

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 18 May 2021, 20:49:38 »
O-rings for keycaps.  I thought I would like the feel but ended up hating it.

GMK keycaps.  I picked up a set of GMK and now I can't use anything but and they are a big hit to the wallet.  I keep a linear and a tactile keyboard in my regular rotation so that means two GMK keycap sets.

Offline Indigu

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 18 May 2021, 22:26:24 »
I try my best to stay away from GMK keycaps because I value money.

Offline MIGHTY CHICKEN

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 18 May 2021, 22:38:38 »
I value money.
I think this hobby may not be for you then

Offline Indigu

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 19 May 2021, 03:57:55 »
I value money.
I think this hobby may not be for you then

I think I can be a little wise with my spending habits. Well I can't but I tell myself that lie to not feel terrible about my poor financial decisions. I'm still staying away from GMK keycaps though.

Offline seville57

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 19 May 2021, 04:27:40 »
Panasonic 4K DP - UB 450 Blu ray player.

Ducky Shine 3 Yellow (The Butterboard) TKL with Cherry MX Blue.

Offline yui

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 19 May 2021, 04:39:03 »
I value money.
I think this hobby may not be for you then
just a bit of feedback, saying that make you sound like a rich kid elitist, i say that because i think i saw you say it on multiple threads. i hope it is not what you meant and just a mistake, and it is why i tell you
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline jamster

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 19 May 2021, 05:53:13 »
It is kind of weird that in these obscure areas which have become much more popular with the advent of social media, there's some idea that to 'enjoy' it properly you've got to waste money on frivolous mistakes. The other niche which reminds me of this is personal audio (headphones) where it is much, much worse. I am sure there are many others.



Offline Volny

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 19 May 2021, 09:59:23 »
I value money.
I think this hobby may not be for you then
just a bit of feedback, saying that make you sound like a rich kid elitist, i say that because i think i saw you say it on multiple threads. i hope it is not what you meant and just a mistake, and it is why i tell you

I think you misunderstand. To me, anyone who makes that kind of comment immediately sounds like someone who has a frugal mindset, worries about money, and probably grew up poor. So not "I value money because money is so awesome", but "I value money because I'm a responsible person and know better than to squander such a valuable resource".

I know plenty of people like that. Including people who are quite wealthy today, but still have the mindset of a poor person because they grew up in a low socio-economic community. Always checking the price of everything, only buying things when they're on sale, not permitting themselves lavish niceties even though they can afford it etc.

I personally don't value money much, because I value time much more instead. But it boils down to the same thing: I value time so much because I'm time poor. Between work, family and my hectic modern life, I feel like I have barely any hours in the day to do the things I want or need to do. Which is why I totally resonate with the person above who said that they can't be bothered with selling on the aftermarket. I'm the same - the cost of time to go through all that is greater than the monetary reward. I value my time so highly precisely because I have so little of it (or at least perceive it so).

Offline MIGHTY CHICKEN

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 19 May 2021, 10:49:01 »
just a bit of feedback, saying that make you sound like a rich kid elitist, i say that because i think i saw you say it on multiple threads. i hope it is not what you meant and just a mistake, and it is why i tell you
Pardon my words, was just trying to make the classic "mech bord make money go brrr" joke

Offline Indigu

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 19 May 2021, 11:56:17 »
I value money.
I think this hobby may not be for you then
just a bit of feedback, saying that make you sound like a rich kid elitist, i say that because i think i saw you say it on multiple threads. i hope it is not what you meant and just a mistake, and it is why i tell you

I think you misunderstand. To me, anyone who makes that kind of comment immediately sounds like someone who has a frugal mindset, worries about money, and probably grew up poor. So not "I value money because money is so awesome", but "I value money because I'm a responsible person and know better than to squander such a valuable resource".

I know plenty of people like that. Including people who are quite wealthy today, but still have the mindset of a poor person because they grew up in a low socio-economic community. Always checking the price of everything, only buying things when they're on sale, not permitting themselves lavish niceties even though they can afford it etc.

I personally don't value money much, because I value time much more instead. But it boils down to the same thing: I value time so much because I'm time poor. Between work, family and my hectic modern life, I feel like I have barely any hours in the day to do the things I want or need to do. Which is why I totally resonate with the person above who said that they can't be bothered with selling on the aftermarket. I'm the same - the cost of time to go through all that is greater than the monetary reward. I value my time so highly precisely because I have so little of it (or at least perceive it so).

I think yui was referring to mighty chicken, not me.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #30 on: Wed, 19 May 2021, 20:11:51 »
I bought some loose SKCM blue switches that "feel smooth" on Ebay.

I also kind of wish I didn't buy the "renewed" ABKO K935P I picked up on Amazon at a good discount. Multiple case clips were completely broken off, taking a chunk of the case with it and there were multiple hairline cracks that run all of the way from the edge of the case to past the escape key and there were multiple dark scuffs. It also looked like it was run hard and never cleaned at all. I'm not sure what their renewal process is supposed to actually be besides throwing it out of the window on the highway, retrieving it, and then selling it. At least it works and I got a decent discount when I contacted support. Chyros' video on it suggests it is made of aluminum. Mine seems to be extremely brittle/fragile clear plastic with a silver coating over it.

Most other boards I get at such a steep discount that the parts alone are worth the investment even if it doesn't work.

O-rings for keycaps.  I thought I would like the feel but ended up hating it.

I had the same experience with some Rosewill ones I bought years ago. They went back into the bag immediately, never to see the light of day again.

My biggest regrets are a WASD Code keyboard with MX Clears and a Cherry MX Board 6.0.  They both had so much potential, but the Code keyboard's stabilizers were ridiculously rattly and the MX Board was let down by only being available with red switches.  At least those two gave me of an idea of what I didn't want in a keyboard.

I wish more boards had Costar stabilizers, like the WASD boards. Rattly stabilizers are fun, and Costars feel great to me.

Offline Volny

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #31 on: Wed, 19 May 2021, 20:49:25 »
I think yui was referring to mighty chicken, not me.

Lol. Indeed. The only one misunderstanding anything was me  :-[

Though I also don't think mighty chicken sounds like an elitist rich kid. The chicken is just speaking the truth: spending stupid money and this hobby are like hand and glove.

I just finished modifying my corsair, and by the time I'd bought all the tools, switches, keycaps, switch openers etc. I'd probably spent twice as much as the already overpriced keyboard itself.

If you want to build your own 65% DIY keyboard from scratch, even with the cheapest kit, switches and keycaps, you'll likely pay many times more than a perfectly decent pre-assembled 100% keyboard from a store. Then you can pay the same amount again for a single artisan esc key. This hobby really isn't a great fit for those with a sensible attitude towards money ;)

Offline yui

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #32 on: Thu, 20 May 2021, 01:32:33 »
I think yui was referring to mighty chicken, not me.
yes i was, and there was no harm done, just wanted to give feedback.
And like any hobby you can get better deals going pre-built. but the basic GMK set is around 150 (EUR/USD) while an ePBT set is usually around 80, so there are some more or less economical options (not even talking SA :)), same with cases and PCB, from 80 for a basic kit to 3000+ for some limited production kits.
like any hobby it is a waste of money but you can still be mindful about it and not spend 1000+ on a board, although there are some that seems to legitimately be rich elitists in the community and would rather no entry level board exist from some of the feedback i saw on some IC threads.
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline jamster

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #33 on: Thu, 20 May 2021, 02:20:09 »
Though I also don't think mighty chicken sounds like an elitist rich kid. The chicken is just speaking the truth: spending stupid money and this hobby are like hand and glove.

I just finished modifying my corsair, and by the time I'd bought all the tools, switches, keycaps, switch openers etc. I'd probably spent twice as much as the already overpriced keyboard itself.

If you want to build your own 65% DIY keyboard from scratch, even with the cheapest kit, switches and keycaps, you'll likely pay many times more than a perfectly decent pre-assembled 100% keyboard from a store. Then you can pay the same amount again for a single artisan esc key. This hobby really isn't a great fit for those with a sensible attitude towards money ;)

Keyboards as a hobby is cheap.

If you want expensive hobbies, look at the travel costs associated with golf, or ongoing costs with amateur motorsports, or owning a boat. Or even fairly modest levels of audio. Even mountain biking (my interest) is far, far more expensive than keyboards. A decent full suspension mountain bike is probably about USD5K. And if you're serious about biking, you need more than one bike. And you want to fly intercontinental to all the best biking destinations.

Yeah, keyboards are seriously one of the cheapest hobbies I've ever been involved with, and I tend not to get sucked into big ticket hobbies in the first place.

« Last Edit: Thu, 20 May 2021, 02:26:13 by jamster »

Offline chiefmatex

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #34 on: Thu, 20 May 2021, 03:32:18 »
yeah, a high end / endgame board is just a budget to entry/mid-luxury level mechanical watch. but even though it can be cheaper, must watch volumes because they still add up hehe. ive met people who rarely spend thousands on any single watch, but they collect so much (hundreds, some thousands of pieces) that they still add up to a substantial sum. not to mention the collectors who hoard mid-to-high end pieces

Offline Indigu

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #35 on: Thu, 20 May 2021, 04:34:39 »
I mean a Hobby doesn't neccesarily have to be expensive, nad it also isn't necessarily a waste of money; as long as you truly enjoy it had it isn't straight up threatening your survival and overriding your priorities, then you should be fine.

Offline jamster

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #36 on: Thu, 20 May 2021, 06:04:53 »
Huh, yeah, I had totally forgotten about watches. A nice dress watch is something I regret buying. It's kinda nice enough to get comments, but I almost never wear watches. Would have gotten a lot more out of another mountain bike.

Offline Chalkboard

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #37 on: Thu, 20 May 2021, 08:13:13 »
I regret wasting time on ortho products, especially those 60%-sized all 1U boards like the ID75.

I regret pretty much every keycap purchase and end up reselling them after receiving. I have come to the realization that I'm just not into the whole keycap thing (except for black/dark grey PBT caps, which are easy to find in stock for cheap).


Offline Maledicted

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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 20 May 2021, 08:56:05 »
Keyboards can be cheap as all heck either way, depending on how you approach it. If you like clickies (like myself) you can literally pick up any random $30-50 board with Outemu blues and be pretty happy with it without modification if you don't care about very specific niche features, as I do not. Even a board's worth of box jades is relatively cheap, and I think they're the best MX-compatible clicky switch ever made.

People like to rip on Matias, and that's not entirely without merit, but every variant of their switches feel wonderful right out of the box and a bag of 200 of them only sets you back $50.

If you pick up boards for parts/as-is on auction websites, at thrift stores, recycling facilities, etc, and already have decent soldering equipment and practice, you can literally end up with really nice boards with just a little patience and TLC.

If you can't live without GMK, need the random hot boutique MX clone of the month, some exotic mounting scheme and/or layout, some very specific aesthetic or ergonomic configuration or some combination of the above ... it can get expensive. None of the above are necessary to enjoy the ride.

Offline Volny

  • Posts: 121
Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 20 May 2021, 09:22:31 »
Though I also don't think mighty chicken sounds like an elitist rich kid. The chicken is just speaking the truth: spending stupid money and this hobby are like hand and glove.

I just finished modifying my corsair, and by the time I'd bought all the tools, switches, keycaps, switch openers etc. I'd probably spent twice as much as the already overpriced keyboard itself.

If you want to build your own 65% DIY keyboard from scratch, even with the cheapest kit, switches and keycaps, you'll likely pay many times more than a perfectly decent pre-assembled 100% keyboard from a store. Then you can pay the same amount again for a single artisan esc key. This hobby really isn't a great fit for those with a sensible attitude towards money ;)

Keyboards as a hobby is cheap.

If you want expensive hobbies, look at the travel costs associated with golf, or ongoing costs with amateur motorsports, or owning a boat. Or even fairly modest levels of audio. Even mountain biking (my interest) is far, far more expensive than keyboards. A decent full suspension mountain bike is probably about USD5K. And if you're serious about biking, you need more than one bike. And you want to fly intercontinental to all the best biking destinations.

Yeah, keyboards are seriously one of the cheapest hobbies I've ever been involved with, and I tend not to get sucked into big ticket hobbies in the first place.

Everything's relative I guess. But the thing about keyboards is that it's expensive *for what you get*. Taking your 5k mountain bike to Peru so you can cruise down the Andes is expensive, but it gives you a unique and exhilarating experience that the average person doesn't have access to in their daily life, which justifies the high cost. Keyboards on the other hand are something that everyone already has. Spend as much as you like on a fancy one, but all you end up get is..... A keyboard. Albeit a somewhat better one, though probably with fewer keys than everyone else has. No new utility to speak of, just a tweak to the existing one. Buying a GMK set has an even less tangible utility. Buying a second, a third, a fourth keyboard arguably even less still.

Of course, it's the subjective part that matters. If you love your expensive keyboard, then it was money well spent. But objectively speaking, it's harder to justify than even some more expensive hobbies.

Besides, I can think of plenty of hobbies that tend to be cheaper: drawing, hiking, coding, chess, bridge...

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #40 on: Thu, 20 May 2021, 10:21:43 »
Yes, but keyboards last which amortizes the cost, they can literally last decades.

The same can't be said for bicycles, you don't even have to travel for it to be INSANELY expensive.
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Offline Volny

  • Posts: 121
Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #41 on: Thu, 20 May 2021, 20:02:18 »
Yes, but keyboards last which amortizes the cost, they can literally last decades.

The same can't be said for bicycles, you don't even have to travel for it to be INSANELY expensive.

But if we recall the original context of this discussion (that GMK sets are a frivolous expense) then your point doesn't really apply. Yes, GMK keycaps will last forever, but so will the keycaps you replaced them with (or the cheaper non-GMK Cherry-profile keycaps you could buy instead).

To be clear, I've got absolutely nothing against GMK keycaps. I myself have a large set of expensive Signature Plastics keycaps, and I really like them. But I'm not fooling myself into thinking that they were a sound financial investment, just because they happen to be cheaper than a speedboat.
« Last Edit: Thu, 20 May 2021, 20:04:03 by Volny »

Offline jamster

  • Posts: 976
  • Location: Asia
Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #42 on: Fri, 21 May 2021, 00:29:14 »
Yes, but keyboards last which amortizes the cost, they can literally last decades.

The same can't be said for bicycles, you don't even have to travel for it to be INSANELY expensive.

I used the example of mountain bikes, with (around here) median prices around 5K. Road bikes get way more expensive.

Speaking of GMK though, I have exactly one GMK set. I can appreciate it for what it is- high quality, well executed, thick. Don't happen to like how it feels on a keyboard though, so it was not a good utility purchase... but when I compare it to a set of mountain bike tyres which would have cost the same and wear out... I cannot say that I regret the purchase at all. It was worth the cost to establish that I don't have to keep buying GMK.

Offline chiefmatex

  • Posts: 18
Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #43 on: Fri, 21 May 2021, 00:53:01 »
as someone who works in front of a computer 5 days a week, 90% of the time (10% on meetings and stuff), i get a lot of utility/mileage out of this keyboard building/collecting hobby. typing is so much fun (especially with tactiles and scooped top MT3's), i can change it up when i get bored (from silent tactiles to tactiles, etc.) and they're a pleasure to look at.

compared to another collecting hobby (watches) of mine, they are more useful and enhance my work experience. my watch collecting hobby is somewhat similar, admiring the craftsmanship, the design, but i don't really get much utility from them. plus a major part of it is also chasing down rare pieces, hoarding, etc. although i must admit, i lost less money (when you have to sell, etc.) and even made an overall nett profit because i mostly focused on limited editions

Offline Sup

  • * Exquisite Elder
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Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #44 on: Fri, 21 May 2021, 19:00:49 »
I try my best to stay away from GMK keycaps because I value money.

“ because I value money” are you implying that people who purchase GMK sets don’t value money? I think they do value there money. They buy something that is made with quality and consistent legends. I see it as something that will last a lifetime and worth the money.
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Offline Rubbermilitia

  • Posts: 246
Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #45 on: Sat, 22 May 2021, 00:57:09 »
I like how this thread turned from "what do you regret buying" to "can we justify the cost of the hobby" lol.

I would like to share my opinion on this, because I actually left the hobby for a couple years due to the perceived sunken cost, and I regret that. I don't want the high cost of premium boards and keysets to scare away other hobbyists either. I missed out on a lot of cool innovation and opportunities, and the reason I left is not valid and never was.

Most people here are focusing on the high cost of GMK keycap sets. Sure, it is a big number to spend on keycaps, especially when you can get dyesub PBT caps for 40$ on amazon that do the job just as well. But this hobby isn't about pure functionality. Quality, brand recognition (factory and designer), rarity, hype factor, and customization (via kits) are some of the other relevant parameters. Also worth mentioning: it's not as if GMK sets have some unjustifiable inflated cost. They are high quality, double shot, injection molded plastics. Those molds are frickin expensive, and they don't last forever. The legends are sharp, and impossible to wear. The caps are thick.

But rather than trying to justify the high cost, I'd rather point out that GMK sets retain their value pretty well, which is clear by looking at the aftermarket. Unlike purchasing products which lose value the second you buy them (like a boat, a car, PC parts, etc), or products which lose their value completely (digital services, video games, food, or bike tires like someone else said), GMK sets are an investment which you can cash in at a later date, usually at-cost or at a profit (not encouraging flipping.)

The exception to this is obviously if your caps are damaged (your fault, or bad luck- manu defects are often addressed these days anyway), or too worn (in which case you must have gotten a lot of value out of them)

All of the above applies to any other high end caps like signature plastics, ePBT, Infinikey, etc. It also applies to keyboards, but even more so- because boards will often have less units and higher desirability.

The bottom line is that, for every keyset/keyboard GB, there are always new people joining the hobby, or veterans returning to the hobby, or even folk who were interested but couldn't get a spot, who are excited about products that are past GB stage, and are willing to pay GB cost or higher - in fact, usually higher, in the case of premium limited-run products.

My theory is that this aftermarket value even improves over time, as the market rarity of your keyset/board increases, due to all the other units eventually finding their permanent homes. And I believe that further rounds of GBs/in-stock sales of something you're holding do not hurt this much, due to the speed at which the hobby is growing.

This healthy aftermarket is proof that most products in this hobby retain their value, and a lot of the time, even appreciate in value. For this reason, I think the hobby is really forgiving financially (if you can afford the upfront cost).

As for the hobby being inherently expensive, I would argue that if you want to try all the different layouts, keycap profiles, mounting types, case materials, etc.. then yeah, you're going to be spending a lot of money. And unfortunately, the best way to narrow down your personal tastes will be trying everything. Though I will say that there are very cheap ways to participate, like through hole DIY kits and cheap switches. Another option is: buy to try, sell to recoup, and buy the next thing. I did this for awhile and got to try a lot of stuff while losing very little (mostly my fault), and other times gaining.

Of course, there are better ways to invest your money if you're trying to build wealth. However, unlike some other hobbies, the money you invest is NOT lost. You are investing in learning and experiencing the variety of the hobby, and there's a good chance you can recoup that investment at a later date, maybe even at a profit. The high price tags make the hobby seem like a money burning machine, but you are getting products with lasting value for that money, not burning it.

There's no telling what the future holds for the health of the marketplace, but I would argue that its obvious the hobby is only growing, and even as high-end boards become more commercialized and available at lower prices (looking at you, GMMK pro), that will never hurt (maybe even help) the value of rare hobbyist custom boards.

P.S. As for the guy with the 5k mountain bike in Peru example: I can cruise down it with a 200$ preowned Specialized MTB too, but its not going to be the same experience. That example works both ways.
« Last Edit: Sat, 22 May 2021, 01:00:54 by Rubbermilitia »

Offline jamster

  • Posts: 976
  • Location: Asia
Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #46 on: Sat, 22 May 2021, 01:11:17 »
I don't think there's any need to really justify money in this hobby. It's a hobby, it's something to enjoy and something to spend money on whilst enjoying.

The fallacy is when people try to justify the money aspect by calling it an "investment", which seems to be more an American use of the term, tied in with consumption culture. Strictly speaking, an investment is when you put money in something where you expect a financial return. Keyboards don't do this. Perhaps some tiny fraction of collectable keyboards do this, but very few people go into this as investors.

P.S. As for the guy with the 5k mountain bike in Peru example: I can cruise down it with a 200$ preowned Specialized MTB too, but its not going to be the same experience. That example works both ways.

I kinda get what you are trying to say with this off the cuff comment, but unless your IRL name is Hans Rey or Danny MacAskill, anyone taking a $200 Specialised onto dedicated downhill trails is either walking or ending up in hospital. This domain is one where equipment is probably about as important is skill- a lack of either is quite dangerous.

Edit: Though come to think of it and using the benefit of hindsight, even with equipment and skill, the probability of ending up in hospital is remarkably high.
« Last Edit: Sat, 22 May 2021, 01:14:24 by jamster »

Offline Rubbermilitia

  • Posts: 246
Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #47 on: Sat, 22 May 2021, 01:41:28 »
I don't think there's any need to really justify money in this hobby. It's a hobby, it's something to enjoy and something to spend money on whilst enjoying.

Since I am financially conscious, I need to justify all the cash I am spending. I shy away from wasteful habbits and hobbies. Knowing that I can recoup my losses most of the time, and try new things without wasting money, keeps me participating in the hobby, rather than looking for another one. A lot of people likely feel this way, and would have stopped at their first build if they couldn't sell it before moving on to the next.

taking a $200 Specialised onto dedicated downhill trails is either walking or ending up in hospital. This domain is one where equipment is probably about as important is skill- a lack of either is quite dangerous.

Alright, I take it back. I'll admit that I don't know much about the andes trail (or biking, just started getting into it recently), and did not realize that hardcore downhill was the only trail option (if it is?) But I take your point that its an experience which you have to spend big bucks to attain, due to the danger.

I would argue that typing on a keycult is also an experience which you have to spend big bucks to attain. Your point seemed to be that the biking would be objectively more exhilarating and 'worth it'. However, that sounds like something you might do a couple times a year, whereas typing on a high end board (especially for someone who works on a computer), is something you do all day every day.

Not trying to be divisive or catty, I appreciate your response

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 3802
Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #48 on: Sat, 22 May 2021, 02:23:02 »
I like how this thread turned from "what do you regret buying" to "can we justify the cost of the hobby" lol.
Screw justifying your hobby and expenditures on it.

Do you enjoy it? Good. Can you afford it, great!




I kinda get what you are trying to say with this off the cuff comment, but unless your IRL name is Hans Rey or Danny MacAskill, anyone taking a $200 Specialised onto dedicated downhill trails is either walking or ending up in hospital. This domain is one where equipment is probably about as important is skill- a lack of either is quite dangerous.
THIS.

Equipment like this has a lifespan as well as limits, even if it looks fine it may not be.
Can they get one down these sorts of trails on a bike like that, probably, but can they do it safely and repeatedly? No. Odds are they would step off the bike, swear at it and tell you never ask them to do that ever again. I've seen some serious wrecks due to equipment failure and I've also seen wrecks were the quality of the equipment saved the rider.

My first thought when reading that $5k Andes bike was that it should be the minimum you have invested in a downhill bike for a trip like that. Then you take it to a trusted mechanic to make sure it's right and maybe install some upgrades/fresh parts. This stuff can get you killed and making it down on your crapcan of a bicycle makes you lucky, it doesn't make you good.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline Rubbermilitia

  • Posts: 246
Re: What are products that you regret buying?
« Reply #49 on: Sat, 22 May 2021, 02:30:59 »
Screw justifying your hobby and expenditures on it.

Do you enjoy it? Good. Can you afford it, great!


Lol I like this attitude! Unfortunately, I cannot afford to buy and keep everything I want to try (mounting styles, keycap profiles, layouts, split, ergo, ortho, frankenswitches, everything!). That's why I rely on a healthy aftermarket to find my last project/components a new home while I move on to trying something new (and keeping the stuff I really like). I only need to justify the cash I spend because if I didn't recoup any of it, I would be in a tough spot!