fake clack discussion

[demik]

Stop selling them for ridiculous prices and they wont be worth their time to clone and resell.

But what do I know.

[redskull]

i myself am 110% against counterfeiting, but stopping the counterfeiter alone is not enough. efforts must come from everyone. IMO, its not helpful to keep on telling and endorsing the general public that a cc can and should be still worth hundreds of dollars. as much as we must not buy them at these prices, we must also tell people that they are not at that value anymore.

[paicrai]

Stop selling them for ridiculous prices and they wont be worth their time to clone and resell.

But what do I know.

100% that

[JinDesu]

First off let me say I am totally against these fakes.

Last time I was overseas in Hong Kong and Philippines it looked like there are fakes of everything including huge million-billion dollar brands. I mean if they can't control counterfeit products how can one-man-shows like brobot and clickclack fight against it? Is there a fight to be made concerning overseas counterfeit products?

There may be a way to stop them from selling to United States, but I feel like no matter what there will be fakes overseas. :[

I gotta admit, the above makes a good point. I remember I once bought replica Champion's League jerseys from the phillipines via on-line stores, and I don't doubt the Champion's League has far greater powers at swatting counterfeiters than any of us individuals.

[tinlong117]

Stop selling them for ridiculous prices and they wont be worth their time to clone and resell.

But what do I know.

Truth teller.

[P3TC0CK]

First off let me say I am totally against these fakes.

Last time I was overseas in Hong Kong and Philippines it looked like there are fakes of everything including huge million-billion dollar brands. I mean if they can't control counterfeit products how can one-man-shows like brobot and clickclack fight against it? Is there a fight to be made concerning overseas counterfeit products?

There may be a way to stop them from selling to United States, but I feel like no matter what there will be fakes overseas. :[

I'm not too familiar with novelty keycaps (they're all generally outrageously priced so it's not worth it to me) but didn't brobot violate transformers and Iron Man IP to create some of his caps? Or was he able to secure permission to produce them?

Neither Brobot not Click Clack really stand in any position to criticize counterfeiters unless they've gone and apologized or expressed regret for stealing those ideas. Unless they've gotten explicit permission from the companies that created that content they are willfully violating other people's IP.

Just because the internet is filled with people selling fan art/fan pieces of star wars and other IP doesn't mean what they're doing is right.

[demik]

Always no. 1

[bazh]

Stop selling them for ridiculous prices and they wont be worth their time to clone and resell.

But what do I know.

dis :*

[pr0ximity]

This recent wave of fakes actually makes me want a legitimate Clack much more. From what I understand Clack has recently upped his game in making his caps more difficult to fake, so hopefully it will continue to be easy to identify fakes in the future.

Here's to hoping the first Clack I get is a legitimate one 

[demik]

This recent wave of fakes actually makes me want a legitimate Clack much more. From what I understand Clack has recently upped his game in making his caps more difficult to fake, so hopefully it will continue to be easy to identify fakes in the future.

Here's to hoping the first Clack I get is a legitimate one 

So youre okay with fakes

[pr0ximity]

This recent wave of fakes actually makes me want a legitimate Clack much more. From what I understand Clack has recently upped his game in making his caps more difficult to fake, so hopefully it will continue to be easy to identify fakes in the future.

Here's to hoping the first Clack I get is a legitimate one 

So youre okay with fakes

Really hope I didn't come off that way. Are you just joking? I'm not really sure how anyone with even the slightest moral compass could support counterfeit art.

[demik]

Yeah im messing with you.

But wanting something more due to fakes is weird.

[Lurch]

This recent wave of fakes actually makes me want a legitimate Clack much more. From what I understand Clack has recently upped his game in making his caps more difficult to fake, so hopefully it will continue to be easy to identify fakes in the future.

Here's to hoping the first Clack I get is a legitimate one 

So youre okay with fakes

Really hope I didn't come off that way. Are you just joking? I'm not really sure how anyone with even the slightest moral compass could support counterfeit art.

As bad as I want an orangesicle CC, there is no ****ing way you will catch me buying counterfeit ****ing **** from ****ing herbs trying to hustle a quick buck. Go be creative and make up your own ****. ****.

Excuse the profanity...

[HoffmanMyster]

didn't brobot violate transformers and Iron Man IP to create some of his caps? Or was he able to secure permission to produce them?

Q: Was V1 just an Optimus Prime head on a cap?
A: Yes, yes it was. The purpose behind that, was a learning one. To understand how the manufacturing process works, to know how different plastics and materials interact to gain the desired effect. I had no plans to go further than this purpose, and I have learned and grown much from the experience.

He has spoken on this subject before, and isn't really denying anything.

Regardless, it doesn't make it right to steal his work...   

[demik]

This recent wave of fakes actually makes me want a legitimate Clack much more. From what I understand Clack has recently upped his game in making his caps more difficult to fake, so hopefully it will continue to be easy to identify fakes in the future.

Here's to hoping the first Clack I get is a legitimate one 

So youre okay with fakes

Really hope I didn't come off that way. Are you just joking? I'm not really sure how anyone with even the slightest moral compass could support counterfeit art.

As bad as I want an orangesicle CC, there is no ****ing way you will catch me buying counterfeit ****ing **** from ****ing herbs trying to hustle a quick buck. Go be creative and make up your own ****. ****.

Excuse the profanity...

But herbs selling it for x10 the price is okay.

A hustle is a hustle.

[Dyslexic]

Welp, after reading the ****show that was the thread on reddit I've unsubbed from that place. Memes and morons are all that remain in that subreddit. As much as I would love my first clack skull, these are not clack skulls. If the maker is unscrupulous enough to rip off designs I'm sure he's unscrupulous enough to scam would-be buyers as well.

[pr0ximity]

Yeah im messing with you.

But wanting something more due to fakes is weird.

Yeah a little strange, perhaps in writing. More of a feeling of wanting to support the craftspeople around here even more, in buying from them or otherwise.

[demik]

Or falling for hype

[pr0ximity]

[demik]

Delete s in http

[Lurch]

This recent wave of fakes actually makes me want a legitimate Clack much more. From what I understand Clack has recently upped his game in making his caps more difficult to fake, so hopefully it will continue to be easy to identify fakes in the future.

Here's to hoping the first Clack I get is a legitimate one 

So youre okay with fakes

Really hope I didn't come off that way. Are you just joking? I'm not really sure how anyone with even the slightest moral compass could support counterfeit art.

As bad as I want an orangesicle CC, there is no ****ing way you will catch me buying counterfeit ****ing **** from ****ing herbs trying to hustle a quick buck. Go be creative and make up your own ****. ****.

Excuse the profanity...

But herbs selling it for x10 the price is okay.

A hustle is a hustle.

Yupper... I don't really support that either but it is what it is I guess...

[P3TC0CK]

didn't brobot violate transformers and Iron Man IP to create some of his caps? Or was he able to secure permission to produce them?

Q: Was V1 just an Optimus Prime head on a cap?
A: Yes, yes it was. The purpose behind that, was a learning one. To understand how the manufacturing process works, to know how different plastics and materials interact to gain the desired effect. I had no plans to go further than this purpose, and I have learned and grown much from the experience.

He has spoken on this subject before, and isn't really denying anything.

Regardless, it doesn't make it right to steal his work...   

Thanks for the quote. Yeah, I acknowledged it isn't OK especially considering his admission that he changed his ways after the initial run but it's still proof that they've done what these new producers are doing to some degree. Has CC stopped producing Vader caps or any other infringing cap designs?

Q: Have you collaborated with or endorsed the use of your designs (artistic or functional) by other makers (manufacturer/hobbyist)?
A: 99% of the time NOPE! They either directly copied my work or at best were heavily influenced by it. All of my art is copyrighted.

Quote from the CC FAQ. While I assume the great majority of his keycaps are protected under copyright, the Vader ones are not and is merely in violation of Disney's copyright unless Click Clack has been given explicit permission to produce the caps.

Personally speaking, I have pretty mixed feelings about copyright. I put a lot of the art I create and draw (although I doubt people use it since they're mostly just beginner sketches) into the public domain or under really unrestricted Creative Commons licenses because I recognize Copyright can be very restrictive sometimes. But I do recognize the need to maintain copyright over an object as an amateur broadcaster and artist, especially in the Middle East where copyright is almost non-existent and my work has been used without my permission and with no credit.

What really rubs me the wrong way is hypocrisy. If you're going to still create and produce Vader caps, how can you criticize these guys at all?

Are we allowed to link places where you can buy fake caps or is that against the forum rules even if we clearly mark them as fake?

[Grim Fandango]

Stop selling them for ridiculous prices and they wont be worth their time to clone and resell.

But what do I know.

100% that

I dislike people selling clacks for huge profit but I disagree that this is any kind of solution.

The supply is not the problem here, the demand is. If no one were willing to sell them anymore, there would still be people willing to buy them. In fact, if it became completely impossible to buy a legitimate clack it could even be that the demand for the fake ones would increase. You could say that the selling of clacks for inflated prices sets a precedent. But that seems irrelevant now that has already happened and everyone knows that $100 for a clack is nothing out of the ordinary.

I also think that there is a distinction to be made. I could sculpt an ironman figurine, and even though I do not have the license, it would still be my creative work. Even if I admit that using something which license belongs to someone else is wrong, it is still something different from someone taking one of my figurines and start mass producing them. Sure, both are wrong, and we are entering a grey area here, but I still feel there is a difference. Whether that difference is relevant legally probably depends on where you are from. This is an international forum, in Holland the rules for this sort of thing is likely different from the US.

[demik]

meh, demand wasnt there till kisa started paying $$$ for them. then  suddenly everybody needed to have one.

[eyesmiles]

Hello. My name is eyesmiles and I am a recovering Clack addict. I have been sober for months now and I feel great.

In all seriousness though, it hurts to say but this was inevitable. For all those who have purchased clacks at inflated prices (I am guilty of being one of those who have), it's basically our fault this happened; both sellers and buyers. All the bickering of copyright issues and whatnot is just what's on the surface. People would prefer to point fingers at the counterfeiters than acknowledge we are at fault.

[P3TC0CK]

I also think that there is a distinction to be made. I could sculpt an ironman figurine, and even though I do not have the license, it would still be my creative work. Even if I admit that using something which license belongs to someone else is wrong, it is still something different from someone taking one of my figurines and start mass producing them. Sure, both are wrong, and we are entering a grey area here, but I still feel there is a difference. Whether that difference is relevant legally probably depends on where you are from. This is an international forum, in Holland the rules for this sort of thing is likely different from the US.

I don't think most companies mind the creation of fan made work. Actually, you'll find a lot of companies push fans to create fan art. See Riot Games, Valve, Marvel, DC comics, Disney, etc. I think it's more or less confirmed that those companies don't mind fans making their own work and generally don't enforce their copyright against people that do so worldwide. There really isn't a "gray area" but simply companies allowing the general public permission to create works that don't earn profit, and generally being slow to take action against those who are violating their copyright.

That's where the problem comes in; when you start selling and profiting off those works (which CC and these counterfeiters have done/are doing) and has gone unpunished because the companies are most likely unaware, in the case of CC's vader caps, or unable to because of funding in the case of CC and his counterfeiters.

Unless CC lives in a country where copyright law does not apply to him or is weak, I doubt he does since he makes copyright claims to his work, he is in the right to fight the counterfeiters. Although it would be going against his own decisions to use others IP without their permission.

CC needs to show us clear proof that he has permission to use the Star Wars Darth Vader IP or else you can take it that he is fine or at least complicit in this type of behavior and that the counterfeits are more or less following the same rules he does.

The ones I was able to find online aren't marked as click clack caps and even have different names.

[noisyturtle]

The answer is obvious. CC needs to make 10x the caps the faker is releasing as a counterweight!

[ekw808]

meh, demand wasnt there till kisa started paying $$$ for them. then  suddenly everybody needed to have one.

If it wasn't kisa, it would have been someone else.

[rowdy]

It's a shame that CC will have to spend his time and money chasing these clowns instead of planning the next design.  Or instead of recovering from his back problems.

[nubbinator]

The answer is obvious. CC needs to make 10x the caps the faker is releasing as a counterweight!

Nah, just offer a bounty of 10 unique Clacks to whack him.  It'll be done before he can blink.

And in response to some of the lame jystifications I see, yes, people willing to pay more than retail and the insane prices made this more probable; however, it still takes an unethical and terrible person to steal another artist's work for profit.  This isn't a readymade like Duchamp's fountain where you're getting a critique of art, this is someone stealing someone's work for profit.  If he wanted to license it, he could have, but he didn't.

[Puddsy]

im already close to getting the guy

im working on it with the koreans

if my hunch is right this'll be dealt with in the next 24 hours

if it's wrong (entirely possible) this is a bigger issue than anyone wants it to be

[demik]

ITT: People repeating the same thing over and over and over.

We know it's wrong to steal, no need for everybody to keep repeating that ****. How about you look at yourselves as a community and see where it went wrong, where it's going wrong, and how to fix it?

[Puddsy]

#realtalk

[noisyturtle]

Please don't do anything lame like dox and ddos the guy. That just makes us look like ****bags too.

[asdfjkl36]

Please don't do anything lame like dox and ddos the guy. That just makes us look like ****bags too.

+1

[strict]

Please don't do anything lame like dox and ddos the guy. That just makes us look like ****bags too.

This x 1000. The world has enough internet tough guys on Reddit.

[rowdy]

FWIW their site now lists them all as out of stock.

[Michael]

I sent this over in a PM to CC:


http://vietnamembassy-usa.org/basic-page/intellectual-property


Probably the easiest way to work with their government to enforce copyrights.

[demik]

FWIW their site now lists them all as out of stock.

(Attachment Link)

oh **** they had a site and everything?

[rowdy]

FWIW their site now lists them all as out of stock.

(Attachment Link)

oh **** they had a site and everything?

Yes, and a sale, and a countdown timer too.  And they even listed how many of each they made.

[Puddsy]

Please don't do anything lame like dox and ddos the guy. That just makes us look like ****bags too.

im not about witchhunts, hence all the going on

i did manage to figure out that he's likely not doing this as a malicious thing

as far as ive managed to find, it looks like he's not doing this to harm clack as much as he's doing it to make a profit

probably was just fed up that he couldn't get clacks from CC and wanted to help other people who were having trouble as well

also do yourself a favor and stay away from the subreddit for any reasonable discussion

it's a ****hole anyway, but now pir is using (if not now, soon) this as anti-GH/clack bait

As I've said a few times now: CC is the only one who can really do anything. All I can do is try and figure out what the heck is going on on the other end

[demik]

FWIW their site now lists them all as out of stock.

(Attachment Link)

oh **** they had a site and everything?

Yes, and a sale, and a countdown timer too.  And they even listed how many of each they made.

more ballsy than druger! at least he tried to launder them.

[strict]

FWIW their site now lists them all as out of stock.

(Attachment Link)

oh **** they had a site and everything?

Yes, and a sale, and a countdown timer too.  And they even listed how many of each they made.

more ballsy than druger! at least he tried to launder them.

I was glad to see that at he least changed the FXE and CF signatures to his own K3 signature so they would be readily identifiable as fraudulent.

[Puddsy]

as far as i could gather, that was the point

[rowdy]

And according to their FAQ they are making no claim that these are genuine CCs, entirely that they made them themselves.

Kinda difficult to applaud them though.

[noisyturtle]

Not only the different stamp, but look how deep/hollow those are as opposed to the solid filling in clacks and brobots. Not the same thickness either. I am curious how these stand up to the boil/microwave/acid tests that clacks are able to come out of unscathed.

[HipsterPunks]

Not only the different stamp, but look how deep/hollow those are as opposed to the solid filling in clacks and brobots. Not the same thickness either. I am curious how these stand up to the boil/microwave/acid tests that clacks are able to come out of unscathed.

They are clack bottoms you can see where he just clayed over the logos and put his mark. There is a slight bump where the logos are. Actually i think i still see some of the fxe corner on the MX ones :/

[dustinhxc]

FWIW their site now lists them all as out of stock.

(Attachment Link)

oh **** they had a site and everything?

Yeah.. Online store.. That's insane! 

[kEkc.com]

ready fly to Korea!

[bueller]

ready fly to Korea!

Show Image

Go away. Can't you ****ing tell you're not welcome here? Piece of ****.