Auctions should be GH sanctioned events. End-of-story.
Make a designated auction sub-forum with a 1-post per person per day limit. Will force bidders who are seriously interested to bid they're max offer while removing the issue of threadcrapping.Eh, the problem with that is the whole point of auctions (from the buyers side) is NOT paying the most you're willing to pay. Requiring a max offer right away for any auction would be silly.
Make a designated auction sub-forum with a 1-post per person per day limit. Will force bidders who are seriously interested to bid they're max offer while removing the issue of threadcrapping.Eh, the problem with that is the whole point of auctions (from the buyers side) is NOT paying the most you're willing to pay. Requiring a max offer right away for any auction would be silly.
auctions are fine, its the attitudes that arent
Shill bidding is a huge problem around here but no one knows it. Who's stopping your friend from bidding on your clack to raise the price on the first day of an auction? Most people who use eBay don't bid on the first day, but try to snipe for the lowest price. That's not the case in some of the GH auctions recently.
Relegate all auctions off-site. eBay has protections in place for both buyer and seller. This forum has neither. Nor should it. There is absolutely no reason for an auction to exist on this community forum.
Nope, auctions aren't fine. Sorry Bunny, have to disagree with you on this one. The whole point of an auction is to maximize profit. Who is going to benefit from whom? One community member takes advantage of the others, with the possibility for shill bidding, etc.
Auctions (unless for charity) should be forbidden on this forum. Auctions only see to drive the sale of items higher than they are actually worth. So then...are we a flea market or a community? If this place is a flea market, then go ahead and sell your novelty keycap for obnoxious prices. If we are part of a community dedicated to this hobby, then why are auctions allowed? One argument may be that a person may not be certain of the worth of an item. However, it's not that difficult to figure out a price within ~20% of an item usually sells for. I just recently witnessed the Beast switch tool set sell for over $20, where Beast was selling them for under $10. Of course, this happened to be an auction.
Also, if we are a true community, I believe that novelty keycaps such as CCs, BroBots, and GirlDC should be sold AT COST + shipping. Now this may insult many of you, but why do you feel that you're entitled to selling such an item to a member of the community for $50-$500? If you were selling it on eBay, to the world, then I'd be more accepting of the sale because it is no longer being sold specifically within the community. And to those of you who buy novelty keycaps like CCs for $100+ dollars: I understand that you're free to spend your money as foolishly as you see fit, but please understand that by doing so, you only contribute to such outrageous prices.
To sum up:
1) Auctions should be forbidden (unless for charity) due to the inflation of prices and all the drama they cause
2) Novelty keycaps should be sold at or around retail cost
Auctions (unless for charity) should be forbidden on this forum. Auctions only see to drive the sale of items higher than they are actually worth. So then...are we a flea market or a community? If this place is a flea market, then go ahead and sell your novelty keycap for obnoxious prices. If we are part of a community dedicated to this hobby, then why are auctions allowed? One argument may be that a person may not be certain of the worth of an item. However, it's not that difficult to figure out a price within ~20% of an item usually sells for. I just recently witnessed the Beast switch tool set sell for over $20, where Beast was selling them for under $10. Of course, this happened to be an auction.
Also, if we are a true community, I believe that novelty keycaps such as CCs, BroBots, and GirlDC should be sold AT COST + shipping. Now this may insult many of you, but why do you feel that you're entitled to selling such an item to a member of the community for $50-$500? If you were selling it on eBay, to the world, then I'd be more accepting of the sale because it is no longer being sold specifically within the community. And to those of you who buy novelty keycaps like CCs for $100+ dollars: I understand that you're free to spend your money as foolishly as you see fit, but please understand that by doing so, you only contribute to such outrageous prices.
To sum up:
1) Auctions should be forbidden (unless for charity) due to the inflation of prices and all the drama they cause
2) Novelty keycaps should be sold at or around retail cost
Nope, auctions aren't fine. Sorry Bunny, have to disagree with you on this one. The whole point of an auction is to maximize profit. Who is going to benefit from whom? One community member takes advantage of the others, with the possibility for shill bidding, etc.
So then... I think it's safe to say that something needs to be changed, I appreciate all the feedback in looking for an adequate solution.
So then... I think it's safe to say that something needs to be changed, I appreciate all the feedback in looking for an adequate solution.
No more auctions?
And besides just auctions, I think the classifieds are pretty bad period with thread crapping, way too much bumping and off topic chatter. (I know, pot, kettle, black.)
And besides just auctions, I think the classifieds are pretty bad period with thread crapping, way too much bumping and off topic chatter. (I know, pot, kettle, black.)
Racist!
people know what a reasonable market price is for whatever they are auctioning
Nek minit -> GH to take a cut from all sales.
And its not like you can enforce a fair price - people know what a reasonable market price is for whatever they are auctioning but for every hardworking low income guy there is another on the other side of the spectrum.
Please allow for at least a few more days for users to express their opinions/ideas.
auctions are fine, its the attitudes that arent
Nek minit -> GH to take a cut from all sales.
And its not like you can enforce a fair price - people know what a reasonable market price is for whatever they are auctioning but for every hardworking low income guy there is another on the other side of the spectrum.
GH wouldn't be taking a cut out of anything. Now you just sound like a far-right conservative who wants no government involvement in anything. Come up with a serious argument instead of just spouting nonsense.
Yes, people do know what a reasonable market price is -- and it's not what CCs are currently going for in second-hand sales. This has less to do with income levels (low or high) than it does with the principles a community should be founded on in regards to member-to-member sales. I don't know about you, but I see GH as a community and its classifieds section as member-to-member sales -- not a flea market. If you feel like your $25 novelty keycap is worth $100+ after a raffle, then take your sale to eBay -- the world's largest flea market.
This. I have lots of keyboards that there's just no way of determining what "market price" is. Even if I have the only know example, is it worth $1000?
people know what a reasonable market price is for whatever they are auctioning
Disagree. There are plenty of ultra rare keyboards out there and acquired from outside the communities. So if they have never been sold before and nothing similar really exists how does one know what a reasonable price should be?
This. I have lots of keyboards that there's just no way of determining what "market price" is. Even if I have the only know example, is it worth $1000?
people know what a reasonable market price is for whatever they are auctioning
Disagree. There are plenty of ultra rare keyboards out there and acquired from outside the communities. So if they have never been sold before and nothing similar really exists how does one know what a reasonable price should be?
snip
I'll just be happy to get some clarification on rules from mods. If auctions are allowed then people shouldn't be allowed to threadcrap, people who continuously violate the rules should cop 24 hour bans. Similarly if they aren't allowed then rules need to be put in place and penalties for those who break it just like the threadcrappers.
I hate the stupidly inflated prices as much as the next guy but if I'm not interested in purchasing I don't post.
speaking of shill bidding.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47993.msg1104382#msg1104382
how has this not been talked about? cactux is purposely upping the price to prove an idiotic point.
I love auctions, especially when he doesnt have the item yet.
ALSO!
can we stop having fs/auction threads when the person DOESNT have the product on hand?
ALSO!
can we stop having fs/auction threads when the person DOESNT have the product on hand?
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50564.0
Here's a problem. Changing the rules of the auction in the middle of the auction. That should definitely be stopped.
Auctions/sales for items not in seller's possession should be prohibited.
What if scammers create bogus FST and run away with the money from the sales?
Coupled with the lax policy on allowing PP Gift in FST, this is indeed possible.
Do we aim to be a marketplace, or a community? If the aim of this forum is to be a marketplace where goods are bought, sold, and traded, with a few discussions taking place on the side, then let us make it that. I say "us" loosely, because I will be leaving if that is the consensus.
If the aim is to be a community of like-minded individuals, then we need to stop allowing those in a position of advantage to have free run of the place. I know this may rustle some jimmies, especially if you, the reader, are one of those individuals. Maybe you have a coveted item that is in high demand and commands a healthy resale price. Come here and talk about it, brag about yourself, whatever. Just don't try to auction it of or turn it for a profit. From whom are you profiting? From your neighbor, that is who. I don't care if he is willing to pay what you are asking, and you are just facilitating the process. Do it somewhere else.
If you have an item that you really don't know how to place a value on, throw it up on eBay and let it ride. You will find out what it is worth there. eBay has protections in place for both buyer and seller. eBay is well established. eBay has rules. This forum is not an auction site. The staff should not be tasked with the full-time operation of auctions, period.
And the so-called "threadcrapping" is not the problem. Posts like "GLWS" which bump the thread are tolerated. Posts which call into question the seller's motives are not. If you look back through any of my own personal sales threads, you will see that I tolerate a fair bit of threadcrapping, because I have nothing to hide. If someone has a question, I will answer it. If someone is being rude, I call them on it and ask them politely to GTFO of my thread. People who constantly report threadcrapping to the moderators are the sellers who are looking to profit off fellow forum members, and don't like being called out for it. They can't handle questions about their pricing, because they know it's not fair. So, to those that say threadcrapping is the problem with auctions, I say it's a symptom of shady dealings, not the cause of the "auction problem."
It would be much easier on everyone, including GH staff, to simply ban on-site auctions, and relegate them to eBay or similar. And sale threads probably need to be approved before they go live, to ensure that people aren't trying to circumvent rules.
Anyway, those are my thoughts on it.
Auctions are usually held when people don't know what to sell an item for... they want the "market" at that moment to decide the value.
The issue I find is that it is all too flawed when it comes to what people do here at GH.
There's noobs and vets and hackers galore... then there's a strange set of people only invested into this place for the chance to buy something which will be worth money.
Money is a funny thing... it keeps this place running and it also sees some of the most amazing people I've met through hard times.
Most of the auctions or raffles I've seen which make this place seem... I don't know, less dark and rancid... happen to help others, change things, or make something happen.
The thing that makes this place seem as bad as a pedophile is that an artist puts his stuff up for retail value, sell-out lotto, and then people immediately auction to profit...the piece of art not even in their hands. They are scalping winning keyboard art lotto tickets... Why is this sanctioned activity?
classifieds is such a cluster**** it's ridiculous. it's easily GH's most active sub and the least moderated. seems mods/admins are more worried about how many times tp4 mentions ergodox than the sub where money is exchanged.
classifieds is such a cluster**** it's ridiculous. it's easily GH's most active sub and the least moderated. seems mods/admins are more worried about how many times tp4 mentions ergodox than the sub where money is exchanged.
The classifieds have always been a very hands-off place, per iMav's desire. But I feel like his desire has become unrealistic in light of the now quite large size of the forum and what its marketplace culture has become.
I like a lot of what has been said in here, especially:
1. Require recent photos of every item posted for sale (perhaps even semi-formal sticky note verification showing username and date).
2. Require a stated price. Beef up "what is it worth?" resources if necessary.
3. Segregate auctions to a separate subforum. Linking to your own ebay auction would be allowed, and maybe for special cases we could allow on-site auctions for charity or site fund-raising.
I don't feel like we need to clamp down on discussion within sale threads. The normal rules against personal attacks and thread derailment should do just fine.
This thread (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50564.0) is just depressing and is by itself proof that something needs to change.
This thread (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50564.0) is just depressing and is by itself proof that something needs to change.
classifieds is such a cluster**** it's ridiculous. it's easily GH's most active sub and the least moderated. seems mods/admins are more worried about how many times tp4 mentions ergodox than the sub where money is exchanged.
The classifieds have always been a very hands-off place, per iMav's desire. But I feel like his desire has become unrealistic in light of the now quite large size of the forum and what its marketplace culture has become.
I like a lot of what has been said in here, especially:
1. Require recent photos of every item posted for sale (perhaps even semi-formal sticky note verification showing username and date).
2. Require a stated price. Beef up "what is it worth?" resources if necessary.
3. Segregate auctions to a separate subforum. Linking to your own ebay auction would be allowed, and maybe for special cases we could allow on-site auctions for charity or site fund-raising.
I don't feel like we need to clamp down on discussion within sale threads. The normal rules against personal attacks and thread derailment should do just fine.
This thread (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50564.0) is just depressing and is by itself proof that something needs to change.
I think this sums up my thoughts nicely.
And I like the idea of ebay, as long as people can still link to their ebay auctions somewhere on this site. If I didn't have a way to be notified of all the sales/auctions I would be pretty bummed (can't check ebay every day for keyboard related things).
classifieds is such a cluster**** it's ridiculous. it's easily GH's most active sub and the least moderated. seems mods/admins are more worried about how many times tp4 mentions ergodox than the sub where money is exchanged.
The classifieds have always been a very hands-off place, per iMav's desire. But I feel like his desire has become unrealistic in light of the now quite large size of the forum and what its marketplace culture has become.
I like a lot of what has been said in here, especially:
1. Require recent photos of every item posted for sale (perhaps even semi-formal sticky note verification showing username and date).
2. Require a stated price. Beef up "what is it worth?" resources if necessary.
3. Segregate auctions to a separate subforum. Linking to your own ebay auction would be allowed, and maybe for special cases we could allow on-site auctions for charity or site fund-raising.
I don't feel like we need to clamp down on discussion within sale threads. The normal rules against personal attacks and thread derailment should do just fine.
This thread (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50564.0) is just depressing and is by itself proof that something needs to change.
classifieds is such a cluster**** it's ridiculous. it's easily GH's most active sub and the least moderated. seems mods/admins are more worried about how many times tp4 mentions ergodox than the sub where money is exchanged.
The classifieds have always been a very hands-off place, per iMav's desire. But I feel like his desire has become unrealistic in light of the now quite large size of the forum and what its marketplace culture has become.
I like a lot of what has been said in here, especially:
1. Require recent photos of every item posted for sale (perhaps even semi-formal sticky note verification showing username and date).
2. Require a stated price. Beef up "what is it worth?" resources if necessary.
3. Segregate auctions to a separate subforum. Linking to your own ebay auction would be allowed, and maybe for special cases we could allow on-site auctions for charity or site fund-raising.
I don't feel like we need to clamp down on discussion within sale threads. The normal rules against personal attacks and thread derailment should do just fine.
This thread (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50564.0) is just depressing and is by itself proof that something needs to change.
The addition of the username and date (handwritten or on a screen in the background) is a great way to make the seller more conscious of the sale that they are preparing. It also removes a lot of wasted posts for people asking for pics.`
auctions are fine, its the attitudes that arentThis. Auctions are NEVER a problem unless a Clack is involved, and usually only if its a newer member. Nobody batted an eye when tsangan auction his Clacks off for $4k or whatever it was. How about people mind their own ****ing business. If someone owns the damn cap they have the right to sell it, and if someone wants the Clack so bad then they can pay what they want. Supply and demand people.
I really wonder how CC feels about how his CCs are being treated
just to put a point on things I see around here in different posts and threads I will offer this here semi-crude analogy-
If you saw somebody go to Toys "R" Us, buy up all or some of a specific toy, then sell it right outside for more, how would you feel about that?
Now, lets say "YOU" were a mom and pop store, artist on the street, gallery, etc... and you see the same thing happen to you... think about it.
I exist on this site, I am a community member here.
[...]
And last but not least, (and I should capitalize this whole sentence but it would be too garish)-
Why do some of you act as if I'm not a community member here and sitting four inches away? (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=24463.msg667991#msg667991)
auctions are fine, its the attitudes that arentThis. Auctions are NEVER a problem unless a Clack is involved, and usually only if its a newer member. Nobody batted an eye when tsangan auction his Clacks off for $4k or whatever it was. How about people mind their own ****ing business. If someone owns the damn cap they have the right to sell it, and if someone wants the Clack so bad then they can pay what they want. Supply and demand people.
If he cared then he would stop doing it, or sell them at that price himself. If a ****ing piece of plastic is worth $30 to somebody and $200 to somebody else who are we to tell them that they can't sell it? That is just moronic. Is it maybe wrong that people enter the sale with the sole purpose of reselling? Yeah maybe, but life isn't fair. If you want the Clack so bad then pay what somebody else is willing to pay.auctions are fine, its the attitudes that arentThis. Auctions are NEVER a problem unless a Clack is involved, and usually only if its a newer member. Nobody batted an eye when tsangan auction his Clacks off for $4k or whatever it was. How about people mind their own ****ing business. If someone owns the damn cap they have the right to sell it, and if someone wants the Clack so bad then they can pay what they want. Supply and demand people.
Well then sir, CC sales.com is for you!
we buy the clacks so you can buy the clacks for more!
Please. Acting like it isnt a problem is delusional.
I feel bad for CC honestly, others are profiting on his work with none of their own put into it.
If he cared then he would stop doing it, or sell them at that price himself. If a ****ing piece of plastic is worth $30 to somebody and $200 to somebody else who are we to tell them that they can't sell it? That is just moronic. Is it maybe wrong that people enter the sale with the sole purpose of reselling? Yeah maybe, but life isn't fair. If you want the Clack so bad then pay what somebody else is willing to pay.auctions are fine, its the attitudes that arentThis. Auctions are NEVER a problem unless a Clack is involved, and usually only if its a newer member. Nobody batted an eye when tsangan auction his Clacks off for $4k or whatever it was. How about people mind their own ****ing business. If someone owns the damn cap they have the right to sell it, and if someone wants the Clack so bad then they can pay what they want. Supply and demand people.
Well then sir, CC sales.com is for you!
we buy the clacks so you can buy the clacks for more!
Please. Acting like it isnt a problem is delusional.
I feel bad for CC honestly, others are profiting on his work with none of their own put into it.
And this is where opinions differ. I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't be profiteering off of other members, this is a community not the local flea market.
And this is where opinions differ. I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't be profiteering off of other members, this is a community not the local flea market.
Great opinion, so why don't you and Kangaroo thread crap every thread that has a dissenting opinion. That'll teach'em. Seems like someone is just straight up bitter about a PIECE OF PLASTIC.
And this is where opinions differ. I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't be profiteering off of other members, this is a community not the local flea market.
Great opinion, so why don't you and Kangaroo thread crap every thread that has a dissenting opinion. That'll teach'em. Seems like someone is just straight up bitter about a PIECE OF PLASTIC.
No-one should be able to use the excuse "What's it worth" when they just bought a certain keycap for around $30 it's worth exactly what you paid for it, or maybe a little less because it's now second hand.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Demand
No-one should be able to use the excuse "What's it worth" when they just bought a certain keycap for around $30 it's worth exactly what you paid for it, or maybe a little less because it's now second hand.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Demand
Maybe if you people would get it through your thick skulls I would stop saying it.No-one should be able to use the excuse "What's it worth" when they just bought a certain keycap for around $30 it's worth exactly what you paid for it, or maybe a little less because it's now second hand.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Demand
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_record
My biggest problem is shaming the seller. It is not the sellers fault that prices are so high on Clacks (and lets be real here, this is not a problem when the auction does not relate to clacks) it is the buyers. If somebody is willing to pay $150 for it rather than $40, you are out of your mind to not take the higher offer.
Thats good for him! He did something great for the community, and there is nothing wrong with that. That does not mean that everybody must do that. There are people willing to pay $200 for a clack, so how about we ****ing let them.My biggest problem is shaming the seller. It is not the sellers fault that prices are so high on Clacks (and lets be real here, this is not a problem when the auction does not relate to clacks) it is the buyers. If somebody is willing to pay $150 for it rather than $40, you are out of your mind to not take the higher offer.
Nubbinator could've sold his hack orange for more, but on good principals he didn't. I don't think he's out of his mind. Maybe in an economic sense, but he's got his morals and sticks to them and that's how we should all act in a perfect world. But alas, we are here. lol
Thats good for him! He did something great for the community, and there is nothing wrong with that. That does not mean that everybody must do that. There are people willing to pay $200 for a clack, so how about we ****ing let them.My biggest problem is shaming the seller. It is not the sellers fault that prices are so high on Clacks (and lets be real here, this is not a problem when the auction does not relate to clacks) it is the buyers. If somebody is willing to pay $150 for it rather than $40, you are out of your mind to not take the higher offer.
Nubbinator could've sold his hack orange for more, but on good principals he didn't. I don't think he's out of his mind. Maybe in an economic sense, but he's got his morals and sticks to them and that's how we should all act in a perfect world. But alas, we are here. lol
I do however support many of the things stated in this thread, only posting a thread if you have an item in hand, must have pictures of item w/ timestamp, etc...
I mean come on this thread wasn't THAT long ago
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47607.0
Thats good for him! He did something great for the community, and there is nothing wrong with that. That does not mean that everybody must do that. There are people willing to pay $200 for a clack, so how about we ****ing let them.
No one had a problem with auctions until the EK CC drawings, goodnight!
People who enter EK and 4Grabs sales with the intention to promptly flip their winnings for cash. **** you, you are a cancer on this community. A teratoma with mashed potato teeth that radiate greed and ignorance. Some people go months, even years simply trying their luck and consistently walk away empty handed. I believe these profiteering scumbags should do this community and actual Clack lovers a favor and delete their GH accounts forever. You are just taking away something that would be appreciated by someone else for your own blatant selfish reasons, and ought to be black listed from future sales.
And to be clear, for those who enter and win a Topre to trade for MX or vise versa I have no issue with.
No one had a problem with auctions until the EK CC drawings, goodnight!
On the subject of auctions, I have said before that I believe auctions should always be handled off-site. eBay has protections setup for buyer and seller, and their bidding system is well-known. GH as a forum doesn't have the resources to deal with auctions.
I realize people have had auctions for legitimate reasons etc but it's like everything else around here some people get away with stuff because of 'who' they are, nobody says anything.
IF things change they need to apply to everyone equally.
Also on regular classifieds threads, is there any consensus on having one thread to sell/buy 5 items versus having 5 threads to buy/sell 1 item each?
And what about addressing the classifieds threads where they turn into a chat fest that have nothing to do with the sale and/or again, depending on 'who' is selling/buying the continuous bumping for pointless reasons is tolerated, but should it be?
/me is as quilty as anyone with concern to most everything being discussed, just trying to have a productive discussion, might as well get it all out there at once and deal with it.
Meaninless posts, such as "GLWS!" should be treated as spam and deleted by the mods. Legitimate discussion should be allowed. Flaming and/or trolling should be dealt with accordingly. Otherwise, it's up to the OP to keep his/her thread under control.
Tulip Mania 1637 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania)I love auctions, especially when he doesnt have the item yet.
me too
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50564.0
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49292.0
i mean paying for something the person doesnt have couldn't go wrong, right?
No one had a problem with auctions until the EK CC drawings, goodnight!
Oh, really?On the subject of auctions, I have said before that I believe auctions should always be handled off-site. eBay has protections setup for buyer and seller, and their bidding system is well-known. GH as a forum doesn't have the resources to deal with auctions.
So then...are we a flea market or a community?
No one had a problem with auctions until the EK CC drawings, goodnight!
I feel like the main problem with the threads we have been seeing latley is that these CC's are being auctioned off BEFORE THEY EVEN GET THE ITEM.While this may be true for some of the sales here, you can't know this. If I bought a keycap and then crashed my bike (or broke a leg, etc) I'd have to come up with some cash in a hurry. I'd start looking for items I had that I could quickly sell for money (profit or no profit) and CC's fit the bill nicely. There are other less extreme situations, too. Like if you realize youve overspent your budget and your significant other is going to kill you when they get home, etc.
That means that they went into the purchase or lottery from Elitekeyboards with the intention of selling the item for a higher cost.
The way I remember it, there was much eye batting indeed.auctions are fine, its the attitudes that arentThis. Auctions are NEVER a problem unless a Clack is involved, and usually only if its a newer member. Nobody batted an eye when tsangan auction his Clacks off for $4k or whatever it was.
My biggest problem is shaming the seller. It is not the sellers fault that prices are so high on Clacks (and lets be real here, this is not a problem when the auction does not relate to clacks) it is the buyers. If somebody is willing to pay $150 for it rather than $40, you are out of your mind to not take the higher offer.I take the philosophical approach to a lot of issues, and there are a lot of moral systems that would allow for a person to only sell their item for the lesser value (while still profiting). Taking a rational (not empirical) approach to ethics (and possibly ending up with a Kant-esque ethical system) could easily lead to such an eventuality, for example.
would people really prefer fixed prices for CC?
Or would there still be the same butthurt going on?
I can say FS: Uber Rare CC $500.00 or PM me offer.
Do i expect $500? Maybe, but what if someone gives me $450 and i take it, is that better?
Or are you looking for a chance to go "I PMed him offering him $50.00 and he wouldn't take it, what a douche"
what exactly gets accomplished here now that its a fixed price and not an auction?
auctions are fine, its the attitudes that arentThis. Auctions are NEVER a problem unless a Clack is involved, and usually only if its a newer member. Nobody batted an eye when tsangan auction his Clacks off for $4k or whatever it was. How about people mind their own ****ing business. If someone owns the damn cap they have the right to sell it, and if someone wants the Clack so bad then they can pay what they want. Supply and demand people.
All the points here about moving auctions to eBay to fix this problem are just lying to themselves.
Just look at all the threads in great find forums about clacks on eBay and people trying to figure out who the hell is the member selling the clack, or criticizing how expensive it is.
That would be idiotic because the demand for them is so high.would people really prefer fixed prices for CC?
Or would there still be the same butthurt going on?
I can say FS: Uber Rare CC $500.00 or PM me offer.
Do i expect $500? Maybe, but what if someone gives me $450 and i take it, is that better?
Or are you looking for a chance to go "I PMed him offering him $50.00 and he wouldn't take it, what a douche"
what exactly gets accomplished here now that its a fixed price and not an auction?
I think they want all the CC's to be sold for $30 ::)
I am interested in beefing up the "what's it worth" resources. How can we do this? If we have a listing at the end of a post saying what the item sold for (just not to whom) it would help as an easily searchable reference. Even strongly suggesting this (instead of requiring it) would make it easy. I'm sure there are other ways as well (big flat post with price history, DB with a frontend with pretty graphs, etc)
On the subject of auctions, I have said before that I believe auctions should always be handled off-site. eBay has protections setup for buyer and seller, and their bidding system is well-known. GH as a forum doesn't have the resources to deal with auctions.
I feel like the main problem with the threads we have been seeing latley is that these CC's are being auctioned off BEFORE THEY EVEN GET THE ITEM.
My biggest problem is shaming the seller. It is not the sellers fault that prices are so high on Clacks (and lets be real here, this is not a problem when the auction does not relate to clacks) it is the buyers. If somebody is willing to pay $150 for it rather than $40, you are out of your mind to not take the higher offer.
All the points here about moving auctions to eBay to fix this problem are just lying to themselves.
Just look at all the threads in great find forums about clacks on eBay and people trying to figure out who the hell is the member selling the clack, or criticizing how expensive it is.
How could you construe my post lying to myself? I made little emphasis on how they affect how the community in general "feels" about them, but stated practical reasons of why this forum isn't a good use for them.
There's a pizza place somewhere in Brooklyn in which the pizza is so frickin' good that the owner (who makes the pizza) comes in on Wednesdays with a set amount of pizza dough. He makes the pizzas, sells them at a market rate, and when his dough is used up, he closes. That's his choice.
There's a pizza place somewhere in Brooklyn in which the pizza is so frickin' good that the owner (who makes the pizza) comes in on Wednesdays with a set amount of pizza dough. He makes the pizzas, sells them at a market rate, and when his dough is used up, he closes. That's his choice.
whoa whoa whoa, most important part, name and location plz
The only logical solution:
- Ban auctions. At first I didn't agree with this, but after reading some of the key points in this debate I have been swayed.
- Make it so all topics in the classifieds MUST be approved by a mod/admin before it is posted. Yes, it means more work for the mods, but it is the best way to weed out the profiteers (which seems to be one of the biggest issues here). Mods will have total control over what constitutes an acceptable ad. Make a designated mod team just for the classifieds if need be.
This is the best solution I can think of.
EDIT: Remember, this is an online forum. Your rights are limited by the forum rules, whatever they may be. So the argument that "if you bought it you can sell it for whatever price you want" only applies if the rules say so.
There's a pizza place somewhere in Brooklyn in which the pizza is so frickin' good that the owner (who makes the pizza) comes in on Wednesdays with a set amount of pizza dough. He makes the pizzas, sells them at a market rate, and when his dough is used up, he closes. That's his choice.
Make it so all topics in the classifieds MUST be approved by a mod/admin before it is posted. Yes, it means more work for the mods, but it is the best way to weed out the profiteers (which seems to be one of the biggest issues here). Mods will have total control over what constitutes an acceptable ad. Make a designated mod team just for the classifieds if need be.
really it just comes down to butthurt in the end.
Banning Auctions but having set prices like my examples above will still cause people to complain about selling at high costs.
The only way to stop the people who are complaining is completely shutting down the classified section.
But even then they'll still reference different threads and ebay links about how people are ripping so and so off.
So its a no win situation.
I honestly think we're (collective we) focusing way too much on trying to control sales.
Either do away with them altogether, or deal with the sales.
The only logical solution:
- Ban auctions. At first I didn't agree with this, but after reading some of the key points in this debate I have been swayed.
- Make it so all topics in the classifieds MUST be approved by a mod/admin before it is posted. Yes, it means more work for the mods, but it is the best way to weed out the profiteers (which seems to be one of the biggest issues here). Mods will have total control over what constitutes an acceptable ad. Make a designated mod team just for the classifieds if need be.
This is the best solution I can think of.
EDIT: Remember, this is an online forum. Your rights are limited by the forum rules, whatever they may be. So the argument that "if you bought it you can sell it for whatever price you want" only applies if the rules say so.
i have to ask, where in the forum rules is selling for profit not allowed in classified?
Or is this just what a vocal minority of GH members want?
What would constitute profiteering?
Would anyone who wants to sell for profit require to be a vender?
Does vender status with a forum get around the profiteering aspect?
I honestly think we're (collective we) focusing way too much on trying to control sales.
Either do away with them altogether, or deal with the sales.
OR are we striving to further segregate the keyboard community more to those who want no sales for profit and those who do?
Will one side end up leaving GH and creating their own community? I mean seriously now.
There's a pizza place somewhere in Brooklyn in which the pizza is so frickin' good that the owner (who makes the pizza) comes in on Wednesdays with a set amount of pizza dough. He makes the pizzas, sells them at a market rate, and when his dough is used up, he closes. That's his choice.
And if he sold them for the most he possibly could, not a single (sane) person would petition to have him shut down.
Ex. 2 (auctions forbidden)
Seller wants to sell an item (a keyboard) in like-new condition that was initially purchased for $125. The seller knows how much he or she paid for it initially and will price it accordingly -- somewhere within $110-$130. So, how does this sale differ from the auction sale? A prospective buyer will look at the sensible price tag and will either choose to buy or not to buy. If the price is sensible and the specific keyboard being sold is sought by many, then the keyboard would be sold within a relatively short time. Thus, competition still exists because the person who messages the seller the fastest usually wins. This form of competition does not artificially raise the price of the item for sale. However, this kind of sensible selling requires that members within the community will adhere to such a practice. That is why it is important for such a change to come from the top down: from the admin team -> elder members -> new members.
Thus, competition still exists because the person who messages the seller the fastest usually wins.
The only logical solution:
- Ban auctions. At first I didn't agree with this, but after reading some of the key points in this debate I have been swayed.
- Make it so all topics in the classifieds MUST be approved by a mod/admin before it is posted. Yes, it means more work for the mods, but it is the best way to weed out the profiteers (which seems to be one of the biggest issues here). Mods will have total control over what constitutes an acceptable ad. Make a designated mod team just for the classifieds if need be.
This is the best solution I can think of.
EDIT: Remember, this is an online forum. Your rights are limited by the forum rules, whatever they may be. So the argument that "if you bought it you can sell it for whatever price you want" only applies if the rules say so.
i have to ask, where in the forum rules is selling for profit not allowed in classified?
Or is this just what a vocal minority of GH members want?
What would constitute profiteering?
Would anyone who wants to sell for profit require to be a vender?
Does vender status with a forum get around the profiteering aspect?
I honestly think we're (collective we) focusing way too much on trying to control sales.
Either do away with them altogether, or deal with the sales.
OR are we striving to further segregate the keyboard community more to those who want no sales for profit and those who do?
Will one side end up leaving GH and creating their own community? I mean seriously now.
You fail to see my point here... and if you had read some of jdcarpe's earlier posts, you would understand the differences between profiteering and vending.
And with all due respect, stop thinking so black-and-white about this. "Either do away with them altogether, or deal with the sales." This is such a horrible mentality on the situation. Take away an important forum feature entirely, just because a few people are abusing it for profit? I feel like a majority of people who use the classifieds are responsible and respectable sellers. So why make them suffer?
To put it in simpler terms: if something is broke, fix it. Don't throw it away just because you don't feel like dealing with it...
And butthurt still ensues because now people have to be the fastest.
"I can't be expected to watch this site all day. I have a life..." |:
Thus, competition still exists because the person who messages the seller the fastest usually wins.
While I'm more or less neutral to auctions, I REALLY hate the "first come first served" method. It gives a serious disadvantage to non-us based buyers. In my sale threads I usually make people include a joke when they want to buy something and then evaluate them based on joke quality rather than time.
Let's just say you can't sell anything for money! Everything is free!! ::)
But shipping and handling fees apply ::)
AND all sales have to be open for a week and everyone gets to vote on who gets the chance to buy something. ::)
I honestly think we're (collective we) focusing way too much on trying to control sales.
Either do away with them altogether, or deal with the sales.
This has been our philosophy historically. Laissez-faire + caveat emptor. It's a good policy in general, as krog will tell you at length.
I think auctions are an identifiable special case though, where abuse is possible and getting likelier as the forum grows.They seem to generate more butthurt than other transactions. But how would they be very different from someone posting a declared price, and then slowly bumping the price downwards until someone bites?
After having read different viewpoints and read how it works on other forums, I think that auctions should be disallowed on the site but that "FA-threads" with links to auctions on eBay/marketplace.nl/Tradera.se etc. should be allowed.
Not because it is the most fair, if people are following the rules, but because it would be the easiest to manage.
After having read different viewpoints and read how it works on other forums, I think that auctions should be disallowed on the site but that "FA-threads" with links to auctions on eBay/marketplace.nl/Tradera.se etc. should be allowed.
Not because it is the most fair, if people are following the rules, but because it would be the easiest to manage.
And people still profit. And people still ramble about it in the thread. Nothing will change.
Do you see how eBay auctions go when someone posts it here? That's exactly what will happen if an eBay link for a Clark is posted. It's been seen before.
Im just sayin from past experiences of eBay auctions linked in great finds:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49666.0
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45121.0
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=38612.0
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=39595.0
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34320.0
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34630.0
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34625.0
They seem to generate more butthurt than other transactions. But how would they be very different from someone posting a declared price, and then slowly bumping the price downwards until someone bites?
So if sales require mod approval do mods either get dibs? or are not allowed to participate?
or better yet pm their friends with a heads up to buy :o
You could always create a 'make auction thread' type of thing, where people can only input a number into a field to place their bid. No comments will be allowed. It could then tally the highest bids per item (each item will be assigned a number, and the person(s) bidding will select that number item + field to input amount). Then at the end (when OP ends auction using the end auction function) it will list the winners automatically.
In other words, it will be a completely automated process.
They seem to generate more butthurt than other transactions. But how would they be very different from someone posting a declared price, and then slowly bumping the price downwards until someone bites?
Unfortunately, what you're describing is something called a Dutch Auction (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_auction) and an example of it just happened recently (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50061.msg1088068#msg1088068). The CC sold for $120, but the money was donated to GH. Still, this method is still an auction and should only be allowed for charity/donations.
They seem to generate more butthurt than other transactions. But how would they be very different from someone posting a declared price, and then slowly bumping the price downwards until someone bites?
Unfortunately, what you're describing is something called a Dutch Auction (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_auction) and an example of it just happened recently (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50061.msg1088068#msg1088068). The CC sold for $120, but the money was donated to GH. Still, this method is still an auction and should only be allowed for charity/donations.
But I see this all the time -- someone lists a keyboard for $200, and a week goes past and then they drop the price to $190 and mark "(price drop!)" in red, bolded text next to the item photo. Then they wait to see if someone will pay. That happens all the time, and no one complains. They wait until the item comes to a price that they accept and then they PM their offer. These sales don't generate the kind of butthurt we're seeing from the clack sale auctions. Someone said earlier, "this isn't about auctions, it's about clacks." They're right.
At least with an auction the item being sold goes to the person who will get the most "utility" out of the item, no matter what their timezone. Moose is right that the butthurt will never go away -- not until the artificial price ceiling on clacks are dropped, or CF increases the supply.
They seem to generate more butthurt than other transactions. But how would they be very different from someone posting a declared price, and then slowly bumping the price downwards until someone bites?
Unfortunately, what you're describing is something called a Dutch Auction (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_auction) and an example of it just happened recently (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50061.msg1088068#msg1088068). The CC sold for $120, but the money was donated to GH. Still, this method is still an auction and should only be allowed for charity/donations.
But I see this all the time -- someone lists a keyboard for $200, and a week goes past and then they drop the price to $190 and mark "(price drop!)" in red, bolded text next to the item photo. Then they wait to see if someone will pay. That happens all the time, and no one complains. They wait until the item comes to a price that they accept and then they PM their offer. These sales don't generate the kind of butthurt we're seeing from the clack sale auctions. Someone said earlier, "this isn't about auctions, it's about clacks." They're right.
At least with an auction the item being sold goes to the person who will get the most "utility" out of the item, no matter what their timezone. Moose is right that the butthurt will never go away -- not until the artificial price ceiling on clacks are dropped, or CF increases the supply. Also, I find it somewhat funny that auctions are bad, evil, and shouldn't be allowed -- unless it's a charity auction, those are okay! Why are they ok, exactly?
What about making every forum member supply basic proof of identity, so that if they abuse the market, they cannot just create a new account and start over. This would make fraud less likely.
You're right about the forced price dropping. I recently sold an imsto PBT set for $50 shipped while it retails for $95 via feng. I didn't want to bother bumping endlessly like poor Beast, who I believe has still not sold his imsto PBT set while being listed for around $10-$20 less than the retail price. This is a problem, yes, but this problem also a product of the selfishness that naturally plagues sales. That is why rules must be put into place that will socialize current and future members of the forum to sell AND buy at sensible prices.
On the identity thing, I witnessed an auction the other day where a brand new joined just to post in auction bidder bumped up the price very quickly and then a regular member out bit them auction over....how do we know it wasn't shill bidding???
I mean what better way to drive up the price of your sales.
You're right about the forced price dropping. I recently sold an imsto PBT set for $50 shipped while it retails for $95 via feng. I didn't want to bother bumping endlessly like poor Beast, who I believe has still not sold his imsto PBT set while being listed for around $10-$20 less than the retail price. This is a problem, yes, but this problem also a product of the selfishness that naturally plagues sales. That is why rules must be put into place that will socialize current and future members of the forum to sell AND buy at sensible prices.
If when you say socialize, you mean more talking, more communication about prices and items, and how to value them, then I agree completely. Maybe there could be a thread dedicated to answering people's questions about pricing, with a writeup on how to determine what something is worth, what to look for (shine on keycaps, etc.). There will always be people willing to pay an absurd price for something, and so the butthurt will always be with us. Maybe a thread for market discussions would be good -- like Cap's FAQ thread, but about pricing and the marketplace?
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47112.0
Amount of butthurt in this thread is zero.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47112.0
Amount of butthurt in this thread is zero.
And how do you know that, exactly? How do you know that any "offending" posts weren't simply removed from that thread?
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47112.0
Amount of butthurt in this thread is zero. For some reason whenever there is an EK sale or a 4grabs the White Knight Geekhack protector of the Holy Click Clack crew has to come in and demonize people who try to sell their clack. They own the ****ing cap, they can do with it what they want. If you don't like the principle or demeanor of the person/auction then ignore it and don't bid.
It's really not difficult to figure this one out. tsangan is a moderator, right? Whoever says that they aren't treated differently is either stupid, naive, or simply in denial. I mentioned this in another thread, but part of the problem we're discussing has to due with the fact that some moderators are some of the biggest contributors towards this maximized profit auction culture. If even mods are doing it, who's going to show up during their thread and speak out in disgust? That person would be met with angry posts and would be outed as a troublemaker, etc.
Auction it on ebay where he is selling to the same group of people and gets money taken from ebay.http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47112.0
Amount of butthurt in this thread is zero. For some reason whenever there is an EK sale or a 4grabs the White Knight Geekhack protector of the Holy Click Clack crew has to come in and demonize people who try to sell their clack. They own the ****ing cap, they can do with it what they want. If you don't like the principle or demeanor of the person/auction then ignore it and don't bid.
I've already replied to this.It's really not difficult to figure this one out. tsangan is a moderator, right? Whoever says that they aren't treated differently is either stupid, naive, or simply in denial. I mentioned this in another thread, but part of the problem we're discussing has to due with the fact that some moderators are some of the biggest contributors towards this maximized profit auction culture. If even mods are doing it, who's going to show up during their thread and speak out in disgust? That person would be met with angry posts and would be outed as a troublemaker, etc.
Furthermore, tsangan can sell auction his stuff off on eBay since he "owns the ****ing cap".
Auction it on ebay where he is selling to the same group of people and gets money taken from ebay.http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47112.0
Amount of butthurt in this thread is zero. For some reason whenever there is an EK sale or a 4grabs the White Knight Geekhack protector of the Holy Click Clack crew has to come in and demonize people who try to sell their clack. They own the ****ing cap, they can do with it what they want. If you don't like the principle or demeanor of the person/auction then ignore it and don't bid.
I've already replied to this.It's really not difficult to figure this one out. tsangan is a moderator, right? Whoever says that they aren't treated differently is either stupid, naive, or simply in denial. I mentioned this in another thread, but part of the problem we're discussing has to due with the fact that some moderators are some of the biggest contributors towards this maximized profit auction culture. If even mods are doing it, who's going to show up during their thread and speak out in disgust? That person would be met with angry posts and would be outed as a troublemaker, etc.
Furthermore, tsangan can sell auction his stuff off on eBay since he "owns the ****ing cap".
so a blind auction? Where the final price wouldn't be revealed?
You realize how much butthurt would go on? People already freak out when you delete items in your sell thread instead of leaving up the prices lol
Yes your average ebay user wants a $500 korean custom and a keycap with a skull on it.Auction it on ebay where he is selling to the same group of people and gets money taken from ebay.http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47112.0
Amount of butthurt in this thread is zero. For some reason whenever there is an EK sale or a 4grabs the White Knight Geekhack protector of the Holy Click Clack crew has to come in and demonize people who try to sell their clack. They own the ****ing cap, they can do with it what they want. If you don't like the principle or demeanor of the person/auction then ignore it and don't bid.
I've already replied to this.It's really not difficult to figure this one out. tsangan is a moderator, right? Whoever says that they aren't treated differently is either stupid, naive, or simply in denial. I mentioned this in another thread, but part of the problem we're discussing has to due with the fact that some moderators are some of the biggest contributors towards this maximized profit auction culture. If even mods are doing it, who's going to show up during their thread and speak out in disgust? That person would be met with angry posts and would be outed as a troublemaker, etc.
Furthermore, tsangan can sell auction his stuff off on eBay since he "owns the ****ing cap".
He is NOT selling it to the same group of people. His items on eBay have a much bigger audience while keeping the drama off our forums. Sure, money gets taken from him by eBay since he chooses to have an auction. Why must he have an auction instead of pricing his items sensibly? Moderators who are one of the biggest "offenders" are also the people we have to convince. It's like trying to convince a corrupt police department to punish police brutality with the sole power to change anything resting in the corrupt police officials themselves.
Moderators who are one of the biggest "offenders" are also the people we have to convince. It's like trying to convince a corrupt police department to punish police brutality with the sole power to change anything resting in the corrupt police officials themselves.
He is NOT selling it to the same group of people. His items on eBay have a much bigger audience while keeping the drama off our forums. Sure, money gets taken from him by eBay since he chooses to have an auction. Why must he have an auction instead of pricing his items sensibly? Moderators who are one of the biggest "offenders" are also the people we have to convince. It's like trying to convince a corrupt police department to punish police brutality with the sole power to change anything resting in the corrupt police officials themselves.Yes your average ebay user wants a $500 korean custom and a keycap with a skull on it.
Moderators who are one of the biggest "offenders" are also the people we have to convince. It's like trying to convince a corrupt police department to punish police brutality with the sole power to change anything resting in the corrupt police officials themselves.
Actually the mods are pretty on-board with reforms. This thread was started by a mod. We are trying to get a feel for the forum's collective opinion and solicit ideas.
I think you're missing the point here. Once the item goes on eBay, it is viewable by users of GeekHack, DT, OTD, and EVERYONE ELSE.You don't have to be logged in to view classifieds. Once it gets posted here, it's viewable to GH, DT, OTD and everyone else. Sure you have to be a registered GH member to PM the poster, but registration is free.
He is NOT selling it to the same group of people. His items on eBay have a much bigger audience while keeping the drama off our forums. Sure, money gets taken from him by eBay since he chooses to have an auction. Why must he have an auction instead of pricing his items sensibly? Moderators who are one of the biggest "offenders" are also the people we have to convince. It's like trying to convince a corrupt police department to punish police brutality with the sole power to change anything resting in the corrupt police officials themselves.Yes your average ebay user wants a $500 korean custom and a keycap with a skull on it.
I think you're missing the point here. Once the item goes on eBay, it is viewable by users of GeekHack, DT, OTD, and EVERYONE ELSE.Moderators who are one of the biggest "offenders" are also the people we have to convince. It's like trying to convince a corrupt police department to punish police brutality with the sole power to change anything resting in the corrupt police officials themselves.
Actually the mods are pretty on-board with reforms. This thread was started by a mod. We are trying to get a feel for the forum's collective opinion and solicit ideas.
I meant moderators such as tsangan and any other mod who creates such auctions. I am glad the admin team is finally realizing something needs to change.
There's no way to force clack prices down. That is not the goal here. We're debating whether we should allow auctions, on what terms, for what reasons.
um i've sold items to someone who literally signed up to GH to PM me asking for my paypal address to buy my item.If auctions are moved off the forum and onto places like eBay, we will see plenty less drama here. Not only that, it might encourage GH members to stop being greedy bastards and sell their items reasonably. When items are reasonably priced, there is hardly ever a need for an auction.
Why the heck do you think ebay's market will be different from GH's classified market?
The prices won't change, it won't magically be less if sent on ebay, it'll just be the seller taking 13% less in the final cost due to ebay/paypal fees.Correct. The prices of auctioned items such as CCs won't magically change. Again, these auctions would not take place on the forum. I'm not trying to "punish" the auctioneer as much as the greedy auctioneer has already punished the community by creating outrageous prices for certain items. Why does an item such as a CC have to auctioned? Why can't it just be sold it in the classifieds in a simple manner? Of course, items such as CCs are in very high in demand, and as such, economics 101 would tell us that it can be sold for much more than the original cost. Thus, this brings us to a crossing point: should we allow members to make a significant profit off other members via auctions? Or should their profiteering auctions be taken elsewhere -- eBay?
Or are you trying to push this to "punish" any auction seller?
Again the #1 problem with everything discussed regarding auctions comes back to Clacks these days.Yes, CCs have brought this issue of auction profiteering to the attention of the admin staff. While auctioning off CCs to the highest bidder tend to rustle the most jimmies, other items such as Korean customs are also auctioned off in the same manner.
Want to just make a blanket rule about not dealing clacks on GH? Would that make people feel better?
Yes, quite obviously, but the point is to take the auctions OUT of GH and onto off-site platforms such as eBay. There's one thing people keep forgetting here: you don't have to have an auction. Simply price the item you want to sell for a reasonable price and someone will buy it. From what I can tell in my experience here, auctions have been used largely to maximize profits -- not because someone did not know what an item is worth.I think you're missing the point here. Once the item goes on eBay, it is viewable by users of GeekHack, DT, OTD, and EVERYONE ELSE.You don't have to be logged in to view classifieds. Once it gets posted here, it's viewable to GH, DT, OTD and everyone else. Sure you have to be a registered GH member to PM the poster, but registration is free.
Whereas on eBay, you have to have eBay / paypal and all that jazz. Also, some people dislike eBay's practices and no longer frequent that site. Finally, I'd like to keep my keyboards in the community where they'll be used if at all possible.
Now, you can still do all of those things, but eBay does not necessarily reach a broader interested audience than the GH classifieds.
Doesn't eBay allow for private auctions? So list the auction, and people who want to bid can ask to be invited. Then eBay prevents fraud and the items still stay in the GH family, so to speak.Seems like a hassle. We haven't had much issues with fraudulent auctions.
I see a few people posting on here using "thats how the world works" as an excuse to do morally questinable things, or at least defend morally questionable things. What kind of community are we trying to build here? The real world may be full of garbage humans using one another for selfish reasons, should this place be too?Idk what is so selfish or unreasonable about selling something for what it is worth on the market.
I see a few people posting on here using "thats how the world works" as an excuse to do morally questinable things, or at least defend morally questionable things. What kind of community are we trying to build here? The real world may be full of garbage humans using one another for selfish reasons, should this place be too?Idk what is so selfish or unreasonable about selling something for what it is worth on the market.
I see a few people posting on here using "thats how the world works" as an excuse to do morally questinable things, or at least defend morally questionable things. What kind of community are we trying to build here? The real world may be full of garbage humans using one another for selfish reasons, should this place be too?Idk what is so selfish or unreasonable about selling something for what it is worth on the market.
I see a few people posting on here using "thats how the world works" as an excuse to do morally questinable things, or at least defend morally questionable things. What kind of community are we trying to build here? The real world may be full of garbage humans using one another for selfish reasons, should this place be too?Idk what is so selfish or unreasonable about selling something for what it is worth on the market.
Ok so is it alright to enter an auction for an item you cant even use, stopping some one who can acutally use that item and purchace it at a resonable price, then trying to sell it to them at 5 times the price as not selfish or unresonable?
I mean obviously somebody who shells out $200 for a piece of plastic wants the thing pretty damn ****ing bad. Its not like they're buying it so others can't have it.I see a few people posting on here using "thats how the world works" as an excuse to do morally questinable things, or at least defend morally questionable things. What kind of community are we trying to build here? The real world may be full of garbage humans using one another for selfish reasons, should this place be too?Idk what is so selfish or unreasonable about selling something for what it is worth on the market.
Ok so is it alright to enter an auction for an item you cant even use, stopping some one who can acutally use that item and purchace it at a resonable price, then trying to sell it to them at 5 times the price as not selfish or unresonable?
I mean obviously somebody who shells out $200 for a piece of plastic wants the thing pretty damn ****ing bad. Its not like they're buying it so others can't have it.
Would you like for me to explain to you how auctions work? I can.I mean obviously somebody who shells out $200 for a piece of plastic wants the thing pretty damn ****ing bad. Its not like they're buying it so others can't have it.
It doesn't really matter what the reason is. If 30 people want to buy a $25 CC, and most people would pay up to somewhere around $30-$50, there just needs to be 1 or 2 people out of those 30 who would dish out $150+. Thus, this creates the future prices for CC sales.
I mean obviously somebody who shells out $200 for a piece of plastic wants the thing pretty damn ****ing bad. Its not like they're buying it so others can't have it.I see a few people posting on here using "thats how the world works" as an excuse to do morally questinable things, or at least defend morally questionable things. What kind of community are we trying to build here? The real world may be full of garbage humans using one another for selfish reasons, should this place be too?Idk what is so selfish or unreasonable about selling something for what it is worth on the market.
Ok so is it alright to enter an auction for an item you cant even use, stopping some one who can acutally use that item and purchace it at a resonable price, then trying to sell it to them at 5 times the price as not selfish or unresonable?
Yeah I mean isn't that the point of a lottery? Because you want the item? Regardless of whatever they do with it afterwards.I mean obviously somebody who shells out $200 for a piece of plastic wants the thing pretty damn ****ing bad. Its not like they're buying it so others can't have it.I see a few people posting on here using "thats how the world works" as an excuse to do morally questinable things, or at least defend morally questionable things. What kind of community are we trying to build here? The real world may be full of garbage humans using one another for selfish reasons, should this place be too?Idk what is so selfish or unreasonable about selling something for what it is worth on the market.
Ok so is it alright to enter an auction for an item you cant even use, stopping some one who can acutally use that item and purchace it at a resonable price, then trying to sell it to them at 5 times the price as not selfish or unresonable?
some one entering a draw for an item they are going to sell right after are very very very much doing it so some one else does not get it and they do.
Would you like for me to explain to you how auctions work? I can.
Yeah I mean isn't that the point of a lottery? Because you want the item? Regardless of whatever they do with it afterwards.I mean obviously somebody who shells out $200 for a piece of plastic wants the thing pretty damn ****ing bad. Its not like they're buying it so others can't have it.I see a few people posting on here using "thats how the world works" as an excuse to do morally questinable things, or at least defend morally questionable things. What kind of community are we trying to build here? The real world may be full of garbage humans using one another for selfish reasons, should this place be too?Idk what is so selfish or unreasonable about selling something for what it is worth on the market.
Ok so is it alright to enter an auction for an item you cant even use, stopping some one who can acutally use that item and purchace it at a resonable price, then trying to sell it to them at 5 times the price as not selfish or unresonable?
some one entering a draw for an item they are going to sell right after are very very very much doing it so some one else does not get it and they do.
Why should they have to keep it off the forum? The people interested in the cap are right here. $25 isn't the true value of a Clack. CC has stated before that making the keys is his hobby and he likes the fact that people enjoy his art. People can pay however much they want!Yeah I mean isn't that the point of a lottery? Because you want the item? Regardless of whatever they do with it afterwards.I mean obviously somebody who shells out $200 for a piece of plastic wants the thing pretty damn ****ing bad. Its not like they're buying it so others can't have it.I see a few people posting on here using "thats how the world works" as an excuse to do morally questinable things, or at least defend morally questionable things. What kind of community are we trying to build here? The real world may be full of garbage humans using one another for selfish reasons, should this place be too?Idk what is so selfish or unreasonable about selling something for what it is worth on the market.
Ok so is it alright to enter an auction for an item you cant even use, stopping some one who can acutally use that item and purchace it at a resonable price, then trying to sell it to them at 5 times the price as not selfish or unresonable?
some one entering a draw for an item they are going to sell right after are very very very much doing it so some one else does not get it and they do.
Yes it is, and people should be allowed to do with it as they want, but it would be nice to keep it off this forum. Unless that is the kind of community they want to build, then I'll move along and find another place to visit.
I mean obviously somebody who shells out $200 for a piece of plastic wants the thing pretty damn ****ing bad. Its not like they're buying it so others can't have it.I see a few people posting on here using "thats how the world works" as an excuse to do morally questinable things, or at least defend morally questionable things. What kind of community are we trying to build here? The real world may be full of garbage humans using one another for selfish reasons, should this place be too?Idk what is so selfish or unreasonable about selling something for what it is worth on the market.
Ok so is it alright to enter an auction for an item you cant even use, stopping some one who can acutally use that item and purchace it at a resonable price, then trying to sell it to them at 5 times the price as not selfish or unresonable?
Why should they have to keep it off the forum? The people interested in the cap are right here. $25 isn't the true value of a Clack. CC has stated before that making the keys is his hobby and he likes the fact that people enjoy his art. People can pay however much they want!Yeah I mean isn't that the point of a lottery? Because you want the item? Regardless of whatever they do with it afterwards.I mean obviously somebody who shells out $200 for a piece of plastic wants the thing pretty damn ****ing bad. Its not like they're buying it so others can't have it.I see a few people posting on here using "thats how the world works" as an excuse to do morally questinable things, or at least defend morally questionable things. What kind of community are we trying to build here? The real world may be full of garbage humans using one another for selfish reasons, should this place be too?Idk what is so selfish or unreasonable about selling something for what it is worth on the market.
Ok so is it alright to enter an auction for an item you cant even use, stopping some one who can acutally use that item and purchace it at a resonable price, then trying to sell it to them at 5 times the price as not selfish or unresonable?
some one entering a draw for an item they are going to sell right after are very very very much doing it so some one else does not get it and they do.
Yes it is, and people should be allowed to do with it as they want, but it would be nice to keep it off this forum. Unless that is the kind of community they want to build, then I'll move along and find another place to visit.
There is a Graphite set on the classifieds right now, minimum price is $180. People aren't throwing fits because that set cost maybe $80 in the group buy are they?
1. Have a minimum post count of 500 or 1 year of membership to post an auction.Does the % donated count for just simple classifieds threads? I don't really like that for auctions either but whatever.
2. MUST have item in hand.
3. Have a blanket percentage minimum of the sale price be donated to geekhack or possibly to other members in the event of property loss. CPTBadass's switch tester tour comes to mind here. If the seller wants to donate a higher percentage that is fine.
4. All auctions must be approved by a moderator.
5. These rules do not apply to the Dutch descending style auction mentioned here.
What about the person that manages to come across a clack for say $100 not it is for a switch that he doesn't have but he buys it anyway in hopes of selling it later for profit or trading it for a clack that he can use?
Here is my opinion regarding auctions on this site after reading most of this thread.
Allow auctions with a couple stipulations.
1. Have a minimum post count of 500 or 1 year of membership to post an auction.
2. MUST have item in hand.
3. Have a blanket percentage minimum of the sale price be donated to geekhack or possibly to other members in the event of property loss. CPTBadass's switch tester tour comes to mind here. If the seller wants to donate a higher percentage that is fine.
4. All auctions must be approved by a moderator.
5. These rules do not apply to the Dutch descending style auction mentioned here.
I don't think it is reasonable to charge a fee that goes to geekhack for auctions unless a service is provided for that cost. A service beyond the basic ability to post. Some kind of buyer protection maybe, but then you get into a dark area of who will manage it, and should they be paid out of the same fees, logic. eBay charge a fortune in fees but provide specific features for it, albeit with heavy buyer bias. Forced fees would seem to open a nest of vipers which would outweigh any benefits.I like this guy
Personally I have no beef about auctions, but then I neither own a clack or intend to own one that would cost more than $20 or so, which helps. My own suggestion to the problems listed here would probably be:
1. Punish thread crapping in auctions more severely.
2. Try and stop shill bidding without actually punishing people who join to bid (Address must be stored on profile before you bid in an auction?, post counts, recent post history, there is no simple fix for a determined shill)
3. As is stated a few times here, item must be in the hands of the seller and actual picture with AH marker on it posted at start.
And to end, a cleaned up joke: Ten guys sat on a train. A fly buzzes around, one guy grabs the fly out of the air and eats it. Then another guy does the same to a second fly. Then a third guy. Then the profiteer jumps up, grabs the next fly and asks 'hey, anyone want to buy a fly?'
I see a few people posting on here using "thats how the world works" as an excuse to do morally questinable things, or at least defend morally questionable things. What kind of community are we trying to build here? The real world may be full of garbage humans using one another for selfish reasons, should this place be too?Idk what is so selfish or unreasonable about selling something for what it is worth on the market.
Ok so is it alright to enter an auction for an item you cant even use, stopping some one who can acutally use that item and purchace it at a resonable price, then trying to sell it to them at 5 times the price as not selfish or unresonable?
Quote1. Have a minimum post count of 500 or 1 year of membership to post an auction.Does the % donated count for just simple classifieds threads? I don't really like that for auctions either but whatever.
2. MUST have item in hand.
3. Have a blanket percentage minimum of the sale price be donated to geekhack or possibly to other members in the event of property loss. CPTBadass's switch tester tour comes to mind here. If the seller wants to donate a higher percentage that is fine.
4. All auctions must be approved by a moderator.
5. These rules do not apply to the Dutch descending style auction mentioned here.
I see a few people posting on here using "thats how the world works" as an excuse to do morally questinable things, or at least defend morally questionable things. What kind of community are we trying to build here? The real world may be full of garbage humans using one another for selfish reasons, should this place be too?Idk what is so selfish or unreasonable about selling something for what it is worth on the market.
Ok so is it alright to enter an auction for an item you cant even use, stopping some one who can acutally use that item and purchace it at a resonable price, then trying to sell it to them at 5 times the price as not selfish or unresonable?
All the butthurt over clack resales is just envy. First butthurt incident: you lost the drawing or the 4Grabs event. This is absolute proof that the universe is deeply unfair; possibly even openly hostile to you. And then the final indignity: the horrible person(s) who won the clack at the below-market price immediately offers to sell it at a price you either cannot or will not pay. Cloak that envy and butthurt in rage against profit and you can take some solace in the knowledge that you hurt the guy who was luckier than you. Take that unfair universe!
I don't think it is reasonable to charge a fee that goes to geekhack for auctions unless a service is provided for that cost. A service beyond the basic ability to post.
All the butthurt over clack resales is just envy. First butthurt incident: you lost the drawing or the 4Grabs event. This is absolute proof that the universe is deeply unfair; possibly even openly hostile to you. And then the final indignity: the horrible person(s) who won the clack at the below-market price immediately offers to sell it at a price you either cannot or will not pay. Cloak that envy and butthurt in rage against profit and you can take some solace in the knowledge that you hurt the guy who was luckier than you. Take that unfair universe!
Cause they aren't like any other rare or valuable good? Nobody complains about comic books or sports memorabilia fetching a pretty penny.All the butthurt over clack resales is just envy. First butthurt incident: you lost the drawing or the 4Grabs event. This is absolute proof that the universe is deeply unfair; possibly even openly hostile to you. And then the final indignity: the horrible person(s) who won the clack at the below-market price immediately offers to sell it at a price you either cannot or will not pay. Cloak that envy and butthurt in rage against profit and you can take some solace in the knowledge that you hurt the guy who was luckier than you. Take that unfair universe!
Do you really feel this way? A member (who I won't name unless he wants to be) offered to sell me a CC at cost after he saw one of my posts criticizing the profiteering and auctions on the forum. I politely declined since I'm way more bothered by the bull**** that's flying by here than not having a novelty keycap (which will eventually find its way to me, sooner or later).
For me, this is much bigger than the recent CC raffle. It's an ongoing issue that I see that encompasses not only CCs, but other items such as Korean customs.
All the butthurt over clack resales is just envy. First butthurt incident: you lost the drawing or the 4Grabs event. This is absolute proof that the universe is deeply unfair; possibly even openly hostile to you. And then the final indignity: the horrible person(s) who won the clack at the below-market price immediately offers to sell it at a price you either cannot or will not pay. Cloak that envy and butthurt in rage against profit and you can take some solace in the knowledge that you hurt the guy who was luckier than you. Take that unfair universe!
Do you really feel this way? A member (who I won't name unless he wants to be) offered to sell me a CC at cost after he saw one of my posts criticizing the profiteering and auctions on the forum. I politely declined since I'm way more bothered by the bull**** that's flying by here than not having a novelty keycap (which will eventually find its way to me, sooner or later).
For me, this is much bigger than the recent CC raffle. It's an ongoing issue that I see that encompasses not only CCs, but other items such as Korean customs.
Let's put these Korean customs in perspective. The markup on those vs group buy price PLUS switches PLUS any other parts and assembly is quite small, percentage wise--in many cases people can just break even or worse. Clacks, on the other hand, ...dramatic markup. Not in the same category by a long shot. So there's no point adding custom keyboards to the list of problems. They are what they are for a reason. If you can make one for significantly less, I'm sure we'd all like to see that.
Let's put these Korean customs in perspective. The markup on those vs group buy price PLUS switches PLUS any other parts and assembly is quite small, percentage wise--in many cases people can just break even or worse. Clacks, on the other hand, ...dramatic markup. Not in the same category by a long shot. So there's no point adding custom keyboards to the list of problems. They are what they are for a reason. If you can make one for significantly less, I'm sure we'd all like to see that.It is quite obvious why there is such a mark up on clacks.
All the butthurt over clack resales is just envy. First butthurt incident: you lost the drawing or the 4Grabs event. This is absolute proof that the universe is deeply unfair; possibly even openly hostile to you. And then the final indignity: the horrible person(s) who won the clack at the below-market price immediately offers to sell it at a price you either cannot or will not pay. Cloak that envy and butthurt in rage against profit and you can take some solace in the knowledge that you hurt the guy who was luckier than you. Take that unfair universe!
Do you really feel this way? A member (who I won't name unless he wants to be) offered to sell me a CC at cost after he saw one of my posts criticizing the profiteering and auctions on the forum. I politely declined since I'm way more bothered by the bull**** that's flying by here than not having a novelty keycap (which will eventually find its way to me, sooner or later).
For me, this is much bigger than the recent CC raffle. It's an ongoing issue that I see that encompasses not only CCs, but other items such as Korean customs.
i've given you examples about how things'll go if you move it over to ebay
people are still gonna discuss about the ebay auctions and **** all over them
Btw, im a bit confused about how you perceive the korean customs value.
Are you saying the korean custom keyboards are being sold significantly above cost? Or are you just upset they're being sold at a high cost?
Do you remember 2 years ago when any Cherry MX Red keyboard was selling basically for over $200.00?
There were Filco MX Red TKLs going for close to $300.
I assure you that wasn't the price, but there was a shortage of MX Red Keyboards so that was the market price.
It just seems to me you want nothing to do with sales in GH at all.
Which is fine for your opinion, its just not a viable option imo as people are going to be talking about purchases they can find in other areas.
All the butthurt over clack resales is just envy. First butthurt incident: you lost the drawing or the 4Grabs event. This is absolute proof that the universe is deeply unfair; possibly even openly hostile to you. And then the final indignity: the horrible person(s) who won the clack at the below-market price immediately offers to sell it at a price you either cannot or will not pay. Cloak that envy and butthurt in rage against profit and you can take some solace in the knowledge that you hurt the guy who was luckier than you. Take that unfair universe!
Do you really feel this way? A member (who I won't name unless he wants to be) offered to sell me a CC at cost after he saw one of my posts criticizing the profiteering and auctions on the forum. I politely declined since I'm way more bothered by the bull**** that's flying by here than not having a novelty keycap (which will eventually find its way to me, sooner or later).
For me, this is much bigger than the recent CC raffle. It's an ongoing issue that I see that encompasses not only CCs, but other items such as Korean customs.
i've given you examples about how things'll go if you move it over to ebay
people are still gonna discuss about the ebay auctions and **** all over them
Btw, im a bit confused about how you perceive the korean customs value.
Are you saying the korean custom keyboards are being sold significantly above cost? Or are you just upset they're being sold at a high cost?
Do you remember 2 years ago when any Cherry MX Red keyboard was selling basically for over $200.00?
There were Filco MX Red TKLs going for close to $300.
I assure you that wasn't the price, but there was a shortage of MX Red Keyboards so that was the market price.
It just seems to me you want nothing to do with sales in GH at all.
Which is fine for your opinion, its just not a viable option imo as people are going to be talking about purchases they can find in other areas.
I'm not sure why you're misinterpreting what I'm saying so I'll clarify a bit. I am not "upset" with Korean keyboards because they are expensive. They are expensive because the material and production cost is expensive, so it makes sense. My problem is with the mark-ups on items such as CCs, Korean customs, and even these MX Red boards 2 years ago. Why can't people just be reasonable and just sell at or near cost? Does making some profit on these items really matter enough to put profit before the community? I've never sold anything with a mark-up. In fact, most of the items I've sold have been around the initial cost or below it. Perhaps I'm too idealistic in a place which many do not share my reasonable buying/selling views.
whats a korean custom if not a korean keyboard?
im confused.
Anyway, you must be a better man that I am, with your views.
Like i personally tried to get in on the Walmart website price error on video games, a few of my buddies got multiple copies of BF4 and Pokemon for only 19 bucks each.
I myself tried but just got the cancellation email from walmart.
I won't say im not above taking advantage of people/companies i guess.
This is what i was talking about, "the world is ****" so its ok to treat people like ****.
Thats a great way to think.
Sadly, I am not the Lathe of Heaven. I'm not making the world into an evil.
Couldn't have said it better myself.This is what i was talking about, "the world is ****" so its ok to treat people like ****.
Thats a great way to think.
Sadly, I am not the Lathe of Heaven. I'm not making the world into an evil, unfair place where some people win clacks at artificially below-market prices in lotteries, and some people don't win. I'm just pointing out the nature of the universe. When I don't win lotteries I don't cry and declare the world is a bad place, out to get me and rigged to reward others. I shrug and hope for better luck next time, or I scrape together the money to buy the item I want at the actual market price from whomever did win and is willing to sell to me. Some people want to change this basic fact of nature through the power of their collective butthurt.
Solution #1: End 4Grabs and EK lotteries and just sell the clacks at $100 a piece, or at whatever price the market determines. In this scenario, only the people who really, really want one (and have the money) will get one. There would be less butthurt because people who refuse to pay (or cannot pay) will have a much lower chance of getting a clack, but at least the possibility won't be tantalizingly dangled over their faces via a lottery.
Solution #2: Make more clacks. But this is not up to us and is not likely to change. You don't mess with a man's art.
Solution #3: Continue the lotteries so that once in a while, someone who can only afford a $40 price point clack will sometimes receive one. And, accept the fact that sometimes the person who wins the clack will opt to sell it for what it's actually worth instead of at the artificially lowered price set by the (likely) compassionate artist who makes them.
EDIT:
Solution #3a: Continue the lotteries, but the set the price at what the aftermarket prices reflect. You win the lottery, woo-hoo! Now pay the $100 for the clack. Will people still try to sell them for $150? Sure, but their margins will have shrunk, and fewer people will pay that much. Less butthurt.
whats a korean custom if not a korean keyboard?
im confused.
Anyway, you must be a better man that I am, with your views.
Like i personally tried to get in on the Walmart website price error on video games, a few of my buddies got multiple copies of BF4 and Pokemon for only 19 bucks each.
I myself tried but just got the cancellation email from walmart.
I won't say im not above taking advantage of people/companies i guess.
Yes, Korean custom = Korean custom keyboard
...Walmart. I disagree with the notion that corporations are people. I liken ripping off Walmart as an act of Robin Hood. When it comes to exploitation of workers by a corporation, Walmart is easily one of the worst in the U.S.
GH community members are fellow keyboard hobbyists, however! We should treat each other as such and promote fair buying/selling practices..
Solution #1: End 4Grabs and EK lotteries and just sell the clacks at $100 a piece, or at whatever price the market determines. In this scenario, only the people who really, really want one (and have the money) will get one. There would be less butthurt because people who refuse to pay (or cannot pay) will have a much lower chance of getting a clack, but at least the possibility won't be tantalizingly dangled over their faces via a lottery.
If anyone cares, my crusade to end auctions on Geekhack will not stop until the on-site auctions stop. My motivation has little to do with Clacks.
Auctions are set up for one purpose, and one purpose only. To maximize profit to the seller. Period. Geekhack is not a marketplace, contrary to the opinions of some. Geekhack is a community of keyboard enthusiasts. Auctioning your item to maximize your profits may benefit you, the seller, but it harms the SPIRIT OF COMMUNITY that exists, at least within some members of this community.
So, post your items for sale, not for auction. Set a price for them. If the price is out of line, expect to be called out for it. It's not threadcrapping, it's people who know better trying to inform others that what you are doing is counter to the SPIRIT OF THE COMMUNITY.
Also, I don't need a lesson in economics. I understand quite well how market forces of supply and demand work. BUT THEY HAVE NO PLACE IN THIS COMMUNITY THAT I LOVE. Go peddle your wares elsewhere.
I FREQUENT THIS FORUM BECAUSE I LIKE INTERACTING WITH LIKE-MINDED INDIVIDUALS, AND I HAVE MADE SOME GREAT FRIENDS HERE. I LEARN NEW THINGS ALL THE TIME ABOUT THIS HOBBY. THIS IS FUN FOR ME.
WHAT ISN'T FUN IS SEEING PEOPLE TRY TO MAKE A BUCK, AT THE EXPENSE OF THEIR FELLOW FORUM MEMBER. IF YOU ARE HERE ON GEEKHACK PRIMARILY TO BUY AND SELL THINGS, AND YOU AREN'T A VENDOR WHO IS EXPECTED TO ABIDE BY A SPECIAL TOS, I WOULD PREFER YOU GO SOMEWHERE ELSE FOR THAT PURPOSE, OR SIMPLY GO AWAY.
Of course, this is my very personal statement, which reflects no one's thoughts or opinions but my own. In no way should it be construed as anything official or sanctioned.
I'm not sure why you're misinterpreting what I'm saying so I'll clarify a bit. I am not "upset" with Korean keyboards because they are expensive. They are expensive because the material and production cost is expensive, so it makes sense. My problem is with the mark-ups on items such as CCs, Korean customs, and even these MX Red boards 2 years ago. Why can't people just be reasonable and just sell at or near cost? Does making some profit on these items really matter enough to put profit before the community? I've never sold anything with a mark-up. In fact, most of the items I've sold have been around the initial cost or below it. Perhaps I'm too idealistic in a place which many do not share my reasonable buying/selling views.
If anyone cares, my crusade to end auctions on Geekhack will not stop until the on-site auctions stop. My motivation has little to do with Clacks.I actually really understand what you're saying jd, and I am somewhat in agreement. How do you propose people sell items for which they don't know the real price such as a rare korean custom? I don't want a bunch of TW threads again.
Auctions are set up for one purpose, and one purpose only. To maximize profit to the seller. Period. Geekhack is not a marketplace, contrary to the opinions of some. Geekhack is a community of keyboard enthusiasts. Auctioning your item to maximize your profits may benefit you, the seller, but it harms the SPIRIT OF COMMUNITY that exists, at least within some members of this community.
So, post your items for sale, not for auction. Set a price for them. If the price is out of line, expect to be called out for it. It's not threadcrapping, it's people who know better trying to inform others that what you are doing is counter to the SPIRIT OF THE COMMUNITY.
Also, I don't need a lesson in economics. I understand quite well how market forces of supply and demand work. BUT THEY HAVE NO PLACE IN THIS COMMUNITY THAT I LOVE. Go peddle your wares elsewhere.
I FREQUENT THIS FORUM BECAUSE I LIKE INTERACTING WITH LIKE-MINDED INDIVIDUALS, AND I HAVE MADE SOME GREAT FRIENDS HERE. I LEARN NEW THINGS ALL THE TIME ABOUT THIS HOBBY. THIS IS FUN FOR ME.
WHAT ISN'T FUN IS SEEING PEOPLE TRY TO MAKE A BUCK, AT THE EXPENSE OF THEIR FELLOW FORUM MEMBER. IF YOU ARE HERE ON GEEKHACK PRIMARILY TO BUY AND SELL THINGS, AND YOU AREN'T A VENDOR WHO IS EXPECTED TO ABIDE BY A SPECIAL TOS, I WOULD PREFER YOU GO SOMEWHERE ELSE FOR THAT PURPOSE, OR SIMPLY GO AWAY.
Of course, this is my very personal statement, which reflects no one's thoughts or opinions but my own. In no way should it be construed as anything official or sanctioned.
How do you propose people sell items for which they don't know the real price such as a rare korean custom? I don't want a bunch of TW threads again.
Are you opposed to sales with PM best offer? Or something of that sort?How do you propose people sell items for which they don't know the real price such as a rare korean custom? I don't want a bunch of TW threads again.
A post in this thread (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=31779.0) would probably be helpful to someone looking for a price estimate. Or ask around in the #geekhack IRC channel, as some of the people that hang around in there can provide good information.
Auctions are set up for one purpose, and one purpose only. To maximize profit to the seller. Period. Geekhack is not a marketplace, contrary to the opinions of some. Geekhack is a community of keyboard enthusiasts. Auctioning your item to maximize your profits may benefit you, the seller, but it harms the SPIRIT OF COMMUNITY that exists, at least within some members of this community.
So, post your items for sale, not for auction. Set a price for them.
Also, I don't need a lesson in economics. I understand quite well how market forces of supply and demand work. BUT THEY HAVE NO PLACE IN THIS COMMUNITY THAT I LOVE. Go peddle your wares elsewhere.
I'm not sure why you're misinterpreting what I'm saying so I'll clarify a bit. I am not "upset" with Korean keyboards because they are expensive. They are expensive because the material and production cost is expensive, so it makes sense. My problem is with the mark-ups on items such as CCs, Korean customs, and even these MX Red boards 2 years ago. Why can't people just be reasonable and just sell at or near cost? Does making some profit on these items really matter enough to put profit before the community? I've never sold anything with a mark-up. In fact, most of the items I've sold have been around the initial cost or below it. Perhaps I'm too idealistic in a place which many do not share my reasonable buying/selling views.
Because you continue thinking there's dramatic mark up on custom-made (PCB, metal bodies) Korean keyboards, please point out more than a 30% mark up over group buy price in the past while, when taking into consideration adding switches, stickers, maybe springs, lubrication, in many cases LEDs, resistors, soldering expenses, and shipping. A KMAK is selling on Originative right now for $400 without shipping. Add switches and all the jazz to it, and shipping, it's going to sell for at least $500 on the Classifieds to break even. Do you see them going for $700? People are very vocal and critical in sale threads with any "overpriced" Korean customs, so those don't happen often. How about LZ-GH--people are selling at cost or barely breaking even, judging by the past few sales I've been seeing. There have been very few keyboards going for $600-800, and those usually DO end up on auctions. We already know that auctions draw compulsive crowd that likes to win no matter the cost, hence this entire thread. But that doesn't reflect the market overall, as there've been plenty of those custom keyboards sold with very little markup. It boggles my mind that you'd lump such different things into the same category as Clacks and these keyboards. The situation with them in terms of resale is not even remotely similar.
Lets see some examples.I'm not sure why you're misinterpreting what I'm saying so I'll clarify a bit. I am not "upset" with Korean keyboards because they are expensive. They are expensive because the material and production cost is expensive, so it makes sense. My problem is with the mark-ups on items such as CCs, Korean customs, and even these MX Red boards 2 years ago. Why can't people just be reasonable and just sell at or near cost? Does making some profit on these items really matter enough to put profit before the community? I've never sold anything with a mark-up. In fact, most of the items I've sold have been around the initial cost or below it. Perhaps I'm too idealistic in a place which many do not share my reasonable buying/selling views.
Because you continue thinking there's dramatic mark up on custom-made (PCB, metal bodies) Korean keyboards, please point out more than a 30% mark up over group buy price in the past while, when taking into consideration adding switches, stickers, maybe springs, lubrication, in many cases LEDs, resistors, soldering expenses, and shipping. A KMAK is selling on Originative right now for $400 without shipping. Add switches and all the jazz to it, and shipping, it's going to sell for at least $500 on the Classifieds to break even. Do you see them going for $700? People are very vocal and critical in sale threads with any "overpriced" Korean customs, so those don't happen often. How about LZ-GH--people are selling at cost or barely breaking even, judging by the past few sales I've been seeing. There have been very few keyboards going for $600-800, and those usually DO end up on auctions. We already know that auctions draw compulsive crowd that likes to win no matter the cost, hence this entire thread. But that doesn't reflect the market overall, as there've been plenty of those custom keyboards sold with very little markup. It boggles my mind that you'd lump such different things into the same category as Clacks and these keyboards. The situation with them in terms of resale is not even remotely similar.
Don't let it boggle your mind. Its pretty simple because like you said, most of the overpriced Korean customs do happen in auctions. That is why we are trying to end them.
What's inherently wrong with trying to maximize your profit? How does someone's normal, natural desire to maximize their profit (or minimize their losses) harm the community?
I'm not sure if the "lesson in economics" comment is directed at me or not, but if market forces have no place at Geekhack then close the marketplace entirely. I don't see much of a functional difference between a fairly-run auction and direct pricing where the seller drops the price until someone buys -- the seller is still maximizing their profit (or minimizing their loss). They both achieve the same thing, but by different means.
Lets see some examples.I'm not sure why you're misinterpreting what I'm saying so I'll clarify a bit. I am not "upset" with Korean keyboards because they are expensive. They are expensive because the material and production cost is expensive, so it makes sense. My problem is with the mark-ups on items such as CCs, Korean customs, and even these MX Red boards 2 years ago. Why can't people just be reasonable and just sell at or near cost? Does making some profit on these items really matter enough to put profit before the community? I've never sold anything with a mark-up. In fact, most of the items I've sold have been around the initial cost or below it. Perhaps I'm too idealistic in a place which many do not share my reasonable buying/selling views.
Because you continue thinking there's dramatic mark up on custom-made (PCB, metal bodies) Korean keyboards, please point out more than a 30% mark up over group buy price in the past while, when taking into consideration adding switches, stickers, maybe springs, lubrication, in many cases LEDs, resistors, soldering expenses, and shipping. A KMAK is selling on Originative right now for $400 without shipping. Add switches and all the jazz to it, and shipping, it's going to sell for at least $500 on the Classifieds to break even. Do you see them going for $700? People are very vocal and critical in sale threads with any "overpriced" Korean customs, so those don't happen often. How about LZ-GH--people are selling at cost or barely breaking even, judging by the past few sales I've been seeing. There have been very few keyboards going for $600-800, and those usually DO end up on auctions. We already know that auctions draw compulsive crowd that likes to win no matter the cost, hence this entire thread. But that doesn't reflect the market overall, as there've been plenty of those custom keyboards sold with very little markup. It boggles my mind that you'd lump such different things into the same category as Clacks and these keyboards. The situation with them in terms of resale is not even remotely similar.
Don't let it boggle your mind. Its pretty simple because like you said, most of the overpriced Korean customs do happen in auctions. That is why we are trying to end them.
Lets see some examples.I'm not sure why you're misinterpreting what I'm saying so I'll clarify a bit. I am not "upset" with Korean keyboards because they are expensive. They are expensive because the material and production cost is expensive, so it makes sense. My problem is with the mark-ups on items such as CCs, Korean customs, and even these MX Red boards 2 years ago. Why can't people just be reasonable and just sell at or near cost? Does making some profit on these items really matter enough to put profit before the community? I've never sold anything with a mark-up. In fact, most of the items I've sold have been around the initial cost or below it. Perhaps I'm too idealistic in a place which many do not share my reasonable buying/selling views.
Because you continue thinking there's dramatic mark up on custom-made (PCB, metal bodies) Korean keyboards, please point out more than a 30% mark up over group buy price in the past while, when taking into consideration adding switches, stickers, maybe springs, lubrication, in many cases LEDs, resistors, soldering expenses, and shipping. A KMAK is selling on Originative right now for $400 without shipping. Add switches and all the jazz to it, and shipping, it's going to sell for at least $500 on the Classifieds to break even. Do you see them going for $700? People are very vocal and critical in sale threads with any "overpriced" Korean customs, so those don't happen often. How about LZ-GH--people are selling at cost or barely breaking even, judging by the past few sales I've been seeing. There have been very few keyboards going for $600-800, and those usually DO end up on auctions. We already know that auctions draw compulsive crowd that likes to win no matter the cost, hence this entire thread. But that doesn't reflect the market overall, as there've been plenty of those custom keyboards sold with very little markup. It boggles my mind that you'd lump such different things into the same category as Clacks and these keyboards. The situation with them in terms of resale is not even remotely similar.
Don't let it boggle your mind. Its pretty simple because like you said, most of the overpriced Korean customs do happen in auctions. That is why we are trying to end them.
That KMAC went for a lot lower than it should have considering you can get a new one for $410 and it came with keycaps. The Pla Poker was a ****ing steal. LZSE is an extremely rare keyboard and even though it cost a lot less originally, its value has risen over time and obviously Meiosis felt it was a worthwhile purchase.Lets see some examples.I'm not sure why you're misinterpreting what I'm saying so I'll clarify a bit. I am not "upset" with Korean keyboards because they are expensive. They are expensive because the material and production cost is expensive, so it makes sense. My problem is with the mark-ups on items such as CCs, Korean customs, and even these MX Red boards 2 years ago. Why can't people just be reasonable and just sell at or near cost? Does making some profit on these items really matter enough to put profit before the community? I've never sold anything with a mark-up. In fact, most of the items I've sold have been around the initial cost or below it. Perhaps I'm too idealistic in a place which many do not share my reasonable buying/selling views.
Because you continue thinking there's dramatic mark up on custom-made (PCB, metal bodies) Korean keyboards, please point out more than a 30% mark up over group buy price in the past while, when taking into consideration adding switches, stickers, maybe springs, lubrication, in many cases LEDs, resistors, soldering expenses, and shipping. A KMAK is selling on Originative right now for $400 without shipping. Add switches and all the jazz to it, and shipping, it's going to sell for at least $500 on the Classifieds to break even. Do you see them going for $700? People are very vocal and critical in sale threads with any "overpriced" Korean customs, so those don't happen often. How about LZ-GH--people are selling at cost or barely breaking even, judging by the past few sales I've been seeing. There have been very few keyboards going for $600-800, and those usually DO end up on auctions. We already know that auctions draw compulsive crowd that likes to win no matter the cost, hence this entire thread. But that doesn't reflect the market overall, as there've been plenty of those custom keyboards sold with very little markup. It boggles my mind that you'd lump such different things into the same category as Clacks and these keyboards. The situation with them in terms of resale is not even remotely similar.
Don't let it boggle your mind. Its pretty simple because like you said, most of the overpriced Korean customs do happen in auctions. That is why we are trying to end them.
Sure. Here are some by one of the moderators of this forum.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47112.msg1000155#msg1000155
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44764.msg929824#msg929824
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37594.msg718227#msg718227
The point here is that it does happen, no matter how often or by more or less profit than the sales of CCs. It shouldn't happen at all.
Okay, we obviously don't see eye to eye on a very simple thing and that is whether or not members should be able to maximize profits in their sales to other members. If we don't agree that it's wrong, then there's no need to continue the argument I'm making here.Dude you know he didn't make money on those sales right? There was no profiteering.
Okay, we obviously don't see eye to eye on a very simple thing and that is whether or not members should be able to maximize profits in their sales to other members. If we don't agree that it's wrong, then there's no need to continue the argument I'm making here.Dude you know he didn't make money on those sales right? There was no profiteering.
KMAC II Current Bid - $460 GeeGee
Pla Poker Current Bid - $350 Meiosis
LZSE Current Bid - $700 Meiosis
0. Salute Tri - $300 i488
1A. Tanslucent Ice Blue - $400 sleepy916
1B. Candy Corn Skull - $220 domoaligato
1C. OG Tri - $250 Forsythe
1D. Jack o' Lantern - $370 sleepy916
1E. Mr Friday - $250 evolyn
1F. Metalic Blue (it shines!) - $160 jcrouse
1G. 3D - $105 Smeagol_RP
1H. 3D - $180 Respite
1I. Yolk Yellow - $160 jcrouse
1J. Dark yolk yellow? - $150 jcrouse
1K. Guac/alvacardo green - $130 ekw808
1L. Tickle me Pink - $180 jcrouse
1M. Army/Machine Green - $225 ekw808
1N. EK Grey - $130 winzds
1O. Midnight Blue - $175 jcrouse
1P. Hack Orange - $105 GeeGee
1Q. 420 sticky icky icky Toasted Black/Green/White- $125 whiteduck
1R. 420 sticky icky icky Toasted Green/Red/Yellow - $85 KangarooZombies
1S. 420 sticky icky O'Natural Yellow/Red - $115 TheBinary
1T. 420 sticky icky O'Natural Black/Pink - $125 whiteduck
2A. EK Red F2 - $85 Kabuks
2B. EK Blue F2 - $115 TheBinary
2C. Dark Lord - $155 jalaj
3A. Mint green WASD - $75 GeeGee
3B. Candy corn Arrows - $165 domoaligato
4A. Translucent Pink - $75 HendyZone
4B. Translucent Violet - $170 blabber86
What's inherently wrong with trying to maximize your profit? How does someone's normal, natural desire to maximize their profit (or minimize their losses) harm the community?
Nothing, if you're on the board of directors at a corporation. This community isn't a corporation. Profiteering is bringing out the worst in people, and adding nothing to the community. You really can't see this firsthand, or was this a rhetorical question?
I'm not sure if the "lesson in economics" comment is directed at me or not, but if market forces have no place at Geekhack then close the marketplace entirely. I don't see much of a functional difference between a fairly-run auction and direct pricing where the seller drops the price until someone buys -- the seller is still maximizing their profit (or minimizing their loss). They both achieve the same thing, but by different means.
Nope. Wasn't directed at you, or anyone in particular. I simply tire of people thinking that because I want the community to grow and prosper, and therefore hold to my ideal view of this forum as a community of members who are here to help and support each other, rather than to profit from opportunity, that I am somehow lacking in intelligence.
Sure. Here are some by one of the moderators of this forum.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47112.msg1000155#msg1000155
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44764.msg929824#msg929824
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37594.msg718227#msg718227
The point here is that it does happen, no matter how often or by more or less profit than the sales of CCs. It shouldn't happen at all.
Sure. Here are some by one of the moderators of this forum.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47112.msg1000155#msg1000155
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44764.msg929824#msg929824
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37594.msg718227#msg718227
The point here is that it does happen, no matter how often or by more or less profit than the sales of CCs. It shouldn't happen at all.
The second link is not an auction--it's a normal sale thread. There's only one "overpriced" Korean Custom out of those 3 threads, and it's LZ-SE, which is for whatever reason one of the most desirable customs. Even so, say it normally went for $550--this is an auction, and as discussed, people overbid on rare items. We don't disagree with you that auctions promote poor decisions. I was only trying to set the record straight that on average--really in most cases--Korean customs are not overpriced on the classifieds vs. their group buy price + assembly and everything in between. Clacks are ALWAYS overpriced--in auctions or not. There are only a relative handful of LZ-SEs, but there are LOTS of Clacks out there in all sorts of colors, and they get overpriced by at least 300%. Usually more like 400% and up. Do you know what a KMAK would cost at a 400% markup? Something like $2000+. That's to put it in perspective. You could say that it's not the same thing in monetary value, but then Clacks are small pieces of plastic, and Korean customs are complex kits with a lot more work that went into them, so it becomes very subjective when someone adds a $100 or so on top of the GB price because of any modifications and such. I consider that perfectly acceptable, as someone who appreciates getting good deals and does not have a high budget for hobbies.
The past is past, and all we have is the present, and what we will do in the future. We can't change the fact that items have been auctioned, and that profiteering is causing much drama on the forum right now. All we can do is take a stand, and say, "NO MORE." That's where I'm trying to get. It's pointless to argue over sales and auctions that have already occurred, when what we need to be doing is forging the new path going forward. Let's refuse to be part of the problem any longer. You do not have to accept the status quo. We can turn this around right here and now. That's the point of this whole thread, not the bickering.
If we can agree that a consensus exists to move auctions off-site, then we are getting somewhere. It's the start of moving the forum back in the right direction.
I don't disagree that the overpricing of Korean customs doesn't happen nearly as much as CCs. I was never trying to make that claim but rather state that it does happen. Because it does happen on occasion is still a problem.
The past is past, and all we have is the present, and what we will do in the future. We can't change the fact that items have been auctioned, and that profiteering is causing much drama on the forum right now. All we can do is take a stand, and say, "NO MORE." That's where I'm trying to get. It's pointless to argue over sales and auctions that have already occurred, when what we need to be doing is forging the new path going forward. Let's refuse to be part of the problem any longer. You do not have to accept the status quo. We can turn this around right here and now. That's the point of this whole thread, not the bickering.
If we can agree that a consensus exists to move auctions off-site, then we are getting somewhere. It's the start of moving the forum back in the right direction.
So if someone bought a 'wdiget' for $300, regardless of what everyone thinks it 'cost' will they be shamed for trying to sell said 'widget' at the price they purchased it?
So if someone bought a 'wdiget' for $300, regardless of what everyone thinks it 'cost' will they be shamed for trying to sell said 'widget' at the price they purchased it?
Now you begin to see the problem.
So if someone bought a 'wdiget' for $300, regardless of what everyone thinks it 'cost' will they be shamed for trying to sell said 'widget' at the price they purchased it?
Now you begin to see the problem.
personally i really don't see the problem lol.
We can all agree about Clacks, because they are Always overpriced, regardless of auctions.
I don't disagree that the overpricing of Korean customs doesn't happen nearly as much as CCs. I was never trying to make that claim but rather state that it does happen. Because it does happen on occasion is still a problem.
If you're going to generalize like that, you need more solid examples and some statistics. We can all agree about Clacks, because they are Always overpriced, regardless of auctions. But you need to back yourself up when talking about other items. A handful of occasions is not going to make your case, because there are so many sales going on on the Classifieds, 1% of sales is not a problem. Those keycaps you linked in the last thread are a great example of something very overpriced because of an auction, however.
So if someone bought a 'wdiget' for $300, regardless of what everyone thinks it 'cost' will they be shamed for trying to sell said 'widget' at the price they purchased it?
Now you begin to see the problem.
personally i really don't see the problem lol.
Widgets:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YlVDGmjz7eM#t=62
I don't disagree that the overpricing of Korean customs doesn't happen nearly as much as CCs. I was never trying to make that claim but rather state that it does happen. Because it does happen on occasion is still a problem.
If you're going to generalize like that, you need more solid examples and some statistics. We can all agree about Clacks, because they are Always overpriced, regardless of auctions. But you need to back yourself up when talking about other items. A handful of occasions is not going to make your case, because there are so many sales going on on the Classifieds, 1% of sales is not a problem. Those keycaps you linked in the last thread are a great example of something very overpriced because of an auction, however.
Lol, I'm not going to search dozens of pages looking for overpriced Korean customs. I've seen it happen and so have others -- it's no secret. While the obvious culprit of the need to get rid of auctions from this forum are CCs, any kind of overpriced item such as Korean customs or even $20 Beast switch tool (yes, really) should not be tolerated.
I'm done beating a dead horse with this.
tl;dr = Auctions cause overpriced items, mostly CCs but including Korean customs and other items.
So if someone bought a 'widget' for $300, regardless of what everyone thinks it 'cost' will they be shamed for trying to sell said 'widget' at the price they purchased it?
or even $20 Beast switch tool (yes, really) should not be tolerated.
I don't disagree that the overpricing of Korean customs doesn't happen nearly as much as CCs. I was never trying to make that claim but rather state that it does happen. Because it does happen on occasion is still a problem.
If you're going to generalize like that, you need more solid examples and some statistics. We can all agree about Clacks, because they are Always overpriced, regardless of auctions. But you need to back yourself up when talking about other items. A handful of occasions is not going to make your case, because there are so many sales going on on the Classifieds, 1% of sales is not a problem. Those keycaps you linked in the last thread are a great example of something very overpriced because of an auction, however.
Lol, I'm not going to search dozens of pages looking for overpriced Korean customs. I've seen it happen and so have others -- it's no secret. While the obvious culprit of the need to get rid of auctions from this forum are CCs, any kind of overpriced item such as Korean customs or even $20 Beast switch tool (yes, really) should not be tolerated.
I'm done beating a dead horse with this.
tl;dr = Auctions cause overpriced items, mostly CCs but including Korean customs and other items.
$20 beast tools are overpriced? I mean if you got them for $14-16, shipping is ~$2 (bubble mailer usps first class) so your talking ~$17 if you've got a bubble mailer already....$3 too much profit??
It costs me more than $3 to drive to the post office.
I don't disagree that the overpricing of Korean customs doesn't happen nearly as much as CCs. I was never trying to make that claim but rather state that it does happen. Because it does happen on occasion is still a problem.
If you're going to generalize like that, you need more solid examples and some statistics. We can all agree about Clacks, because they are Always overpriced, regardless of auctions. But you need to back yourself up when talking about other items. A handful of occasions is not going to make your case, because there are so many sales going on on the Classifieds, 1% of sales is not a problem. Those keycaps you linked in the last thread are a great example of something very overpriced because of an auction, however.
Lol, I'm not going to search dozens of pages looking for overpriced Korean customs. I've seen it happen and so have others -- it's no secret. While the obvious culprit of the need to get rid of auctions from this forum are CCs, any kind of overpriced item such as Korean customs or even $20 Beast switch tool (yes, really) should not be tolerated.
I'm done beating a dead horse with this.
tl;dr = Auctions cause overpriced items, mostly CCs but including Korean customs and other items.
$20 beast tools are overpriced? I mean if you got them for $14-16, shipping is ~$2 (bubble mailer usps first class) so your talking ~$17 if you've got a bubble mailer already....$3 too much profit??
It costs me more than $3 to drive to the post office.
It doesn't really matter that it's just a few bucks. It's the principle that counts, at least for me, because it is a bit insulting...especially when it was auctioned off.
$20 beast tools are overpriced? I mean if you got them for $14-16, shipping is ~$2 (bubble mailer usps first class) so your talking ~$17 if you've got a bubble mailer already....$3 too much profit??
It costs me more than $3 to drive to the post office.
$20 beast tools are overpriced? I mean if you got them for $14-16, shipping is ~$2 (bubble mailer usps first class) so your talking ~$17 if you've got a bubble mailer already....$3 too much profit??
It costs me more than $3 to drive to the post office.
I sold mine for $15 shipped in a bubble mailer because I didn't like it. And you can print your label at home and leave it in your mailbox, no need to take it to the post office.
To me, there's no excuse to sell something for more than you paid for it unless you're adding value to it, value that others can appreciate, not just something you did for yourself. Not only that, but community is contingent upon people not seeing each other as ways to make a ton of money. If I buy something for a friend because they asked or if I have something a friend wants to buy off of me, I sell it at cost or a slight loss. Hell, sometimes I even give it away. When one of my friends wants me to make them something, I charge them a lot less for it than I would a customer because I want them to have something nice that's affordable and I know they'll look out for me in the future.
Community is contingent upon good faith and auctions and profiteering (not making small profits) off of people on here is in bad faith and breaks down the community.
So everything should be sold for at least 10% off what it was purchased for?
I'm just trying to get a baseline here.
Why can't people just sell them for what they paid for shipped? Is it really that necessary to make a few dollars profit? That is the jist of my argument in this thread...people shouldn't immediately look to make as much money as possible off other members.I don't disagree that the overpricing of Korean customs doesn't happen nearly as much as CCs. I was never trying to make that claim but rather state that it does happen. Because it does happen on occasion is still a problem.
If you're going to generalize like that, you need more solid examples and some statistics. We can all agree about Clacks, because they are Always overpriced, regardless of auctions. But you need to back yourself up when talking about other items. A handful of occasions is not going to make your case, because there are so many sales going on on the Classifieds, 1% of sales is not a problem. Those keycaps you linked in the last thread are a great example of something very overpriced because of an auction, however.
Lol, I'm not going to search dozens of pages looking for overpriced Korean customs. I've seen it happen and so have others -- it's no secret. While the obvious culprit of the need to get rid of auctions from this forum are CCs, any kind of overpriced item such as Korean customs or even $20 Beast switch tool (yes, really) should not be tolerated.
I'm done beating a dead horse with this.
tl;dr = Auctions cause overpriced items, mostly CCs but including Korean customs and other items.
$20 beast tools are overpriced? I mean if you got them for $14-16, shipping is ~$2 (bubble mailer usps first class) so your talking ~$17 if you've got a bubble mailer already....$3 too much profit??
It costs me more than $3 to drive to the post office.
It doesn't really matter that it's just a few bucks. It's the principle that counts, at least for me, because it is a bit insulting...especially when it was auctioned off.
So if someone just put up a FS thread, beast switch tools $20 shipped! Would that be ok?
Other people may have a different value for said item. This is why today a Graphite set will fetch $150+ Just because it sold for $x amount in the group buy doesn't mean it is still worth that amount on the market. Right now there are a lot fewer of them around and there are people who want them, which makes the value of the item increase. At that point it only makes sense to let somebody pay whatever they feel the value of the item is. If an item is worth $100 to person A and $150 to person B and the item is sold at a price of $80 to person A, is it fair that he got that item, since it was worth more to person B? Especially since person B probably didn't have the chance to make an offer on the item since it got swiped up so fast.Why can't people just sell them for what they paid for shipped? Is it really that necessary to make a few dollars profit? That is the jist of my argument in this thread...people shouldn't immediately look to make as much money as possible off other members.I don't disagree that the overpricing of Korean customs doesn't happen nearly as much as CCs. I was never trying to make that claim but rather state that it does happen. Because it does happen on occasion is still a problem.
If you're going to generalize like that, you need more solid examples and some statistics. We can all agree about Clacks, because they are Always overpriced, regardless of auctions. But you need to back yourself up when talking about other items. A handful of occasions is not going to make your case, because there are so many sales going on on the Classifieds, 1% of sales is not a problem. Those keycaps you linked in the last thread are a great example of something very overpriced because of an auction, however.
Lol, I'm not going to search dozens of pages looking for overpriced Korean customs. I've seen it happen and so have others -- it's no secret. While the obvious culprit of the need to get rid of auctions from this forum are CCs, any kind of overpriced item such as Korean customs or even $20 Beast switch tool (yes, really) should not be tolerated.
I'm done beating a dead horse with this.
tl;dr = Auctions cause overpriced items, mostly CCs but including Korean customs and other items.
$20 beast tools are overpriced? I mean if you got them for $14-16, shipping is ~$2 (bubble mailer usps first class) so your talking ~$17 if you've got a bubble mailer already....$3 too much profit??
It costs me more than $3 to drive to the post office.
It doesn't really matter that it's just a few bucks. It's the principle that counts, at least for me, because it is a bit insulting...especially when it was auctioned off.
So if someone just put up a FS thread, beast switch tools $20 shipped! Would that be ok?
So everything should be sold for at least 10% off what it was purchased for?
I'm just trying to get a baseline here.
You don't need to sell for a loss and you can sell some things for a small profit. Who has ever looked down on someone selling off extras they bought in a GB for a small profit because they were helping it hit MOQ? The problem is that there are people who expect the buyers to absorb the cost for every modification they did to make it something the seller liked better. There are people who expect things to sell for 25-600% more than they paid for it and they think that it's okay and right to do so. And there are people who think that the buyer should pay for the initial cost to the seller and shipping on top of that. So you see stuff like a $15 Beast switch tool selling for more than the $15 it cost shipped because people want to take a $0 loss when they should be eating the initial shipping cost. For example, if I bought a Model M for $40+ shipping, would it be right for me to sell it for $55 + shipping?
My point was more to keep prices reasonable.
Auctions have a way of making prices unreasonable and ruining the sense of community. Look at how much anger gets directed to people in auction threads, look how many people make it personal or bid just to drive up the price of an item so that their similar item doesn't depreciate.
Why can't people just sell them for what they paid for shipped? Is it really that necessary to make a few dollars profit? That is the jist of my argument in this thread...people shouldn't immediately look to make as much money as possible off other members.Other people may have a different value for said item. This is why today a Graphite set will fetch $150+ Just because it sold for $x amount in the group buy doesn't mean it is still worth that amount on the market. Right now there are a lot fewer of them around and there are people who want them, which makes the value of the item increase. At that point it only makes sense to let somebody pay whatever they feel the value of the item is. If an item is worth $100 to person A and $150 to person B and the item is sold at a price of $80 to person A, is it fair that he got that item, since it was worth more to person B? Especially since person B probably didn't have the chance to make an offer on the item since it got swiped up so fast.
I think it is time for a vote.
1. Allow auctions as it is now.
2. No auctions on this site.
3. Allow only zero profit auctions.
I explained in that post why it isn't selfish. Thanks for reading.Why can't people just sell them for what they paid for shipped? Is it really that necessary to make a few dollars profit? That is the jist of my argument in this thread...people shouldn't immediately look to make as much money as possible off other members.Other people may have a different value for said item. This is why today a Graphite set will fetch $150+ Just because it sold for $x amount in the group buy doesn't mean it is still worth that amount on the market. Right now there are a lot fewer of them around and there are people who want them, which makes the value of the item increase. At that point it only makes sense to let somebody pay whatever they feel the value of the item is. If an item is worth $100 to person A and $150 to person B and the item is sold at a price of $80 to person A, is it fair that he got that item, since it was worth more to person B? Especially since person B probably didn't have the chance to make an offer on the item since it got swiped up so fast.
Correct. Everyone here pretty much understand how the market economy works. What I'm saying is that it doesn't have to be like this on GH. If we are all keyboard enthusiasts here and share similar interests, why can't we be above the selfishness that exists in the outside world and price things fairly?
How do you propose people sell items for which they don't know the real price such as a rare korean custom? I don't want a bunch of TW threads again.
A post in this thread (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=31779.0) would probably be helpful to someone looking for a price estimate. Or ask around in the #geekhack IRC channel, as some of the people that hang around in there can provide good information.
I think it is time for a vote.
1. Allow auctions as it is now.
2. No auctions on this site.
3. Allow only zero profit auctions.
^^ how do you determine if they are zero profit??
I think it is time for a vote.
1. Allow auctions as it is now.
2. No auctions on this site.
3. Allow only zero profit auctions.
^^ how do you determine if they are zero profit??
Ray, you just keep hammering on this point -- how do we root out the evil profiteers from the people who are selling their keyboards to save handicapped orphans? There seems to be no good way. Fraud can be prevented, but apart from maintaining a database of sales, receipts, etc. -- there's no real way to do it.
But try asking about anything like some older keyboard that might be rare or 1 of a kind or uniquely modded one and you either won't even get a response or the response you do get is just completely wrong.
I think it is time for a vote.
1. Allow auctions as it is now.
2. No auctions on this site.
3. Allow only zero profit auctions.
^^ how do you determine if they are zero profit??
Ray, you just keep hammering on this point -- how do we root out the evil profiteers from the people who are selling their keyboards to save handicapped orphans? There seems to be no good way. Fraud can be prevented, but apart from maintaining a database of sales, receipts, etc. -- there's no real way to do it.
^^ exactly! It can't be done! That's the point.
I think it is time for a vote.
1. Allow auctions as it is now.
2. No auctions on this site.
3. Allow only zero profit auctions.
^^ how do you determine if they are zero profit??
Ray, you just keep hammering on this point -- how do we root out the evil profiteers from the people who are selling their keyboards to save handicapped orphans? There seems to be no good way. Fraud can be prevented, but apart from maintaining a database of sales, receipts, etc. -- there's no real way to do it.
^^ exactly! It can't be done! That's the point.
I think it is time for a vote.
1. Allow auctions as it is now.
2. No auctions on this site.
3. Allow only zero profit auctions.
^^ how do you determine if they are zero profit??
Ray, you just keep hammering on this point -- how do we root out the evil profiteers from the people who are selling their keyboards to save handicapped orphans? There seems to be no good way. Fraud can be prevented, but apart from maintaining a database of sales, receipts, etc. -- there's no real way to do it.
^^ exactly! It can't be done! That's the point.
You make my point for me, sir. Since there is no way to determine if an auction is for-profit, or not-for-profit, they must all be assumed to be for maximum profit. And therefore must be disallowed on the forum.
$20 beast tools are overpriced? I mean if you got them for $14-16, shipping is ~$2 (bubble mailer usps first class) so your talking ~$17 if you've got a bubble mailer already....$3 too much profit??
It costs me more than $3 to drive to the post office.
I sold mine for $15 shipped in a bubble mailer because I didn't like it. And you can print your label at home and leave it in your mailbox, no need to take it to the post office.
To me, there's no excuse to sell something for more than you paid for it unless you're adding value to it, value that others can appreciate, not just something you did for yourself. Not only that, but community is contingent upon people not seeing each other as ways to make a ton of money. If I buy something for a friend because they asked or if I have something a friend wants to buy off of me, I sell it at cost or a slight loss. Hell, sometimes I even give it away. When one of my friends wants me to make them something, I charge them a lot less for it than I would a customer because I want them to have something nice that's affordable and I know they'll look out for me in the future.
Community is contingent upon good faith and auctions and profiteering (not making small profits) off of people on here is in bad faith and breaks down the community.
Dunno if you were here for this, but people got upset with ragnarock when he was running GBs that ended up letting him get a small profit.So everything should be sold for at least 10% off what it was purchased for?
I'm just trying to get a baseline here.
You don't need to sell for a loss and you can sell some things for a small profit. Who has ever looked down on someone selling off extras they bought in a GB for a small profit because they were helping it hit MOQ? The problem is that there are people who expect the buyers to absorb the cost for every modification they did to make it something the seller liked better. There are people who expect things to sell for 25-600% more than they paid for it and they think that it's okay and right to do so. And there are people who think that the buyer should pay for the initial cost to the seller and shipping on top of that. So you see stuff like a $15 Beast switch tool selling for more than the $15 it cost shipped because people want to take a $0 loss when they should be eating the initial shipping cost. For example, if I bought a Model M for $40+ shipping, would it be right for me to sell it for $55 + shipping?
My point was more to keep prices reasonable.
Auctions have a way of making prices unreasonable and ruining the sense of community. Look at how much anger gets directed to people in auction threads, look how many people make it personal or bid just to drive up the price of an item so that their similar item doesn't depreciate. Auctions are all about status, maintaining the value of items you have, and making a ton of money. They have no place here, not if we want to continue calling ourselves a community.
Just throwing this out there, say someone goes to their closest e-cycler and finds a dolch system in good condition, walking away with it for say $50, is it right to sell it for $175 in a sale?
Just throwing this out there, say someone goes to their closest e-cycler and finds a dolch system in good condition, walking away with it for say $50, is it right to sell it for $175 in a sale?
Only they would know how much they paid. And people generally only want them for the keyboard, so probably about $100 or so would be a more fair way to price it, I would say. It is then on their conscience to know that they just basically took $50 from a fellow forum member, for doing nothing but being lucky with a find, when they could have passed on that great deal to someone else, if the seller didn't want it.
Just throwing this out there, say someone goes to their closest e-cycler and finds a dolch system in good condition, walking away with it for say $50, is it right to sell it for $175 in a sale?
Only they would know how much they paid. And people generally only want them for the keyboard, so probably about $100 or so would be a more fair way to price it, I would say. It is then on their conscience to know that they just basically took $50 from a fellow forum member, for doing nothing but being lucky with a find, when they could have passed on that great deal to someone else, if the seller didn't want it.
Just throwing this out there, say someone goes to their closest e-cycler and finds a dolch system in good condition, walking away with it for say $50, is it right to sell it for $175 in a sale?
Only they would know how much they paid. And people generally only want them for the keyboard, so probably about $100 or so would be a more fair way to price it, I would say. It is then on their conscience to know that they just basically took $50 from a fellow forum member, for doing nothing but being lucky with a find, when they could have passed on that great deal to someone else, if the seller didn't want it.
So IF you knew about it would it be proper to say something in their FS thread??
Just throwing this out there, say someone goes to their closest e-cycler and finds a dolch system in good condition, walking away with it for say $50, is it right to sell it for $175 in a sale?
Only they would know how much they paid. And people generally only want them for the keyboard, so probably about $100 or so would be a more fair way to price it, I would say. It is then on their conscience to know that they just basically took $50 from a fellow forum member, for doing nothing but being lucky with a find, when they could have passed on that great deal to someone else, if the seller didn't want it.
but you'd have no objection to this as its a firm sale price right?
Besides the personal feelings of the person possibly gaining profit off of a member.
Isn't that considered threadcrapping? Take that stuff up with the seller over PM.Just throwing this out there, say someone goes to their closest e-cycler and finds a dolch system in good condition, walking away with it for say $50, is it right to sell it for $175 in a sale?
Only they would know how much they paid. And people generally only want them for the keyboard, so probably about $100 or so would be a more fair way to price it, I would say. It is then on their conscience to know that they just basically took $50 from a fellow forum member, for doing nothing but being lucky with a find, when they could have passed on that great deal to someone else, if the seller didn't want it.
So IF you knew about it would it be proper to say something in their FS thread??
I would.
Isn't that considered threadcrapping? Take that stuff up with the seller over PM.Just throwing this out there, say someone goes to their closest e-cycler and finds a dolch system in good condition, walking away with it for say $50, is it right to sell it for $175 in a sale?
Only they would know how much they paid. And people generally only want them for the keyboard, so probably about $100 or so would be a more fair way to price it, I would say. It is then on their conscience to know that they just basically took $50 from a fellow forum member, for doing nothing but being lucky with a find, when they could have passed on that great deal to someone else, if the seller didn't want it.
So IF you knew about it would it be proper to say something in their FS thread??
I would.
But you know what you paid for it, can that not be your guide?
Just throwing this out there, say someone goes to their closest e-cycler and finds a dolch system in good condition, walking away with it for say $50, is it right to sell it for $175 in a sale?
Only they would know how much they paid. And people generally only want them for the keyboard, so probably about $100 or so would be a more fair way to price it, I would say. It is then on their conscience to know that they just basically took $50 from a fellow forum member, for doing nothing but being lucky with a find, when they could have passed on that great deal to someone else, if the seller didn't want it.
So IF you knew about it would it be proper to say something in their FS thread??
But you know what you paid for it, can that not be your guide?
That is the problem though for both the actual old/rare stuff and the CC's that most of this discussion is about
If I sell something which is in high demand or rare for zero profit, there is a very good chance that the person I sell it to will end up reselling it (publicly or privately) for much much more.
Example: Lets say I put up an ad to sell my OG TRI CC to the 1st person who pm's me for $50. There is a much smaller number of people on here who would actually keep and appreciate it vs. those that who would instantly flip it for a nice profit on their end. Lets say its a 20%/80% split there of types of members, and I doubt its even that many percentage wise that would be on the keeping it side. So if there is an 80% chance of me selling it to someone else who will flip it and make $200-$250 profit why in the heck would I want to-do that? It still sold for an outrageous price in the end and someone else made all the profit for being the fastest at pm'ing. So basically the same thing that happens after the EK sales, except its the original seller here losing out instead of CC on the profit
The point i'm trying to make is that its too risky and stupid for a seller to blindly give a deal to someone when more likely than not its just going to get flipped. CC might not care seeing people profit from the luck of the EK/4grabs sale. But I sure as hell don't want someone to make huge profits from me being nice and selling at a reasonable price....
But you know what you paid for it, can that not be your guide?
That is the problem though for both the actual old/rare stuff and the CC's that most of this discussion is about
If I sell something which is in high demand or rare for zero profit, there is a very good chance that the person I sell it to will end up reselling it (publicly or privately) for much much more.
Example: Lets say I put up an ad to sell my OG TRI CC to the 1st person who pm's me for $50. There is a much smaller number of people on here who would actually keep and appreciate it vs. those that who would instantly flip it for a nice profit on their end. Lets say its a 20%/80% split there of types of members, and I doubt its even that many percentage wise that would be on the keeping it side. So if there is an 80% chance of me selling it to someone else who will flip it and make $200-$250 profit why in the heck would I want to-do that? It still sold for an outrageous price in the end and someone else made all the profit for being the fastest at pm'ing. So basically the same thing that happens after the EK sales, except its the original seller here losing out instead of CC on the profit
The point i'm trying to make is that its too risky and stupid for a seller to blindly give a deal to someone when more likely than not its just going to get flipped. CC might not care seeing people profit from the luck of the EK/4grabs sale. But I sure as hell don't want someone to make huge profits from me being nice and selling at a reasonable price....
I would much rather see people hording CCs and/or only trading them for CCs only than to see people sell them for $$$. I'm disgusted when I see people trading a CC for entire keyboards + cash on top of that.Then having a clack would truly be some secret club, it would be impossible to get a clack unless you won one from the lotto, and some people *cough*noisyturtle*cough* clearly aren't very lucky with those.
I would much rather see people hording CCs and/or only trading them for CCs only than to see people sell them for $$$. I'm disgusted when I see people trading a CC for entire keyboards + cash on top of that.Then having a clack would truly be some secret club, it would be impossible to get a clack unless you won one from the lotto, and some people *cough*noisyturtle*cough* clearly aren't very lucky with those.
But you know what you paid for it, can that not be your guide?
That is the problem though for both the actual old/rare stuff and the CC's that most of this discussion is about
If I sell something which is in high demand or rare for zero profit, there is a very good chance that the person I sell it to will end up reselling it (publicly or privately) for much much more.
Example: Lets say I put up an ad to sell my OG TRI CC to the 1st person who pm's me for $50. There is a much smaller number of people on here who would actually keep and appreciate it vs. those that who would instantly flip it for a nice profit on their end. Lets say its a 20%/80% split there of types of members, and I doubt its even that many percentage wise that would be on the keeping it side. So if there is an 80% chance of me selling it to someone else who will flip it and make $200-$250 profit why in the heck would I want to-do that? It still sold for an outrageous price in the end and someone else made all the profit for being the fastest at pm'ing. So basically the same thing that happens after the EK sales, except its the original seller here losing out instead of CC on the profit
The point i'm trying to make is that its too risky and stupid for a seller to blindly give a deal to someone when more likely than not its just going to get flipped. CC might not care seeing people profit from the luck of the EK/4grabs sale. But I sure as hell don't want someone to make huge profits from me being nice and selling at a reasonable price....
That's when you call them out for it and make them feel like crap for doing it. Let everyone know what type of person they are to do it. Make sure no one wants to deal with that person. I would rather be here with the 20%, to use your example, and the other 80% can go take a flying leap.
I have $50 in my paypal......and your paypal address...just sayin :o
But you know what you paid for it, can that not be your guide?
That is the problem though for both the actual old/rare stuff and the CC's that most of this discussion is about
If I sell something which is in high demand or rare for zero profit, there is a very good chance that the person I sell it to will end up reselling it (publicly or privately) for much much more.
Example: Lets say I put up an ad to sell my OG TRI CC to the 1st person who pm's me for $50. There is a much smaller number of people on here who would actually keep and appreciate it vs. those that who would instantly flip it for a nice profit on their end. Lets say its a 20%/80% split there of types of members, and I doubt its even that many percentage wise that would be on the keeping it side. So if there is an 80% chance of me selling it to someone else who will flip it and make $200-$250 profit why in the heck would I want to-do that? It still sold for an outrageous price in the end and someone else made all the profit for being the fastest at pm'ing. So basically the same thing that happens after the EK sales, except its the original seller here losing out instead of CC on the profit
The point i'm trying to make is that its too risky and stupid for a seller to blindly give a deal to someone when more likely than not its just going to get flipped. CC might not care seeing people profit from the luck of the EK/4grabs sale. But I sure as hell don't want someone to make huge profits from me being nice and selling at a reasonable price....
That's when you call them out for it and make them feel like crap for doing it. Let everyone know what type of person they are to do it. Make sure no one wants to deal with that person. I would rather be here with the 20%, to use your example, and the other 80% can go take a flying leap.
I think it is time for a vote.
1. Allow auctions as it is now.
2. No auctions on this site.
3. Allow only zero profit auctions.
^^ how do you determine if they are zero profit??
Ray, you just keep hammering on this point -- how do we root out the evil profiteers from the people who are selling their keyboards to save handicapped orphans? There seems to be no good way. Fraud can be prevented, but apart from maintaining a database of sales, receipts, etc. -- there's no real way to do it.
^^ exactly! It can't be done! That's the point.
You make my point for me, sir. Since there is no way to determine if an auction is for-profit, or not-for-profit, they must all be assumed to be for maximum profit. And therefore must be disallowed on the forum.
So no auctions ok.
Just throwing this out there, say someone goes to their closest e-cycler and finds a dolch system in good condition, walking away with it for say $50, is it right to sell it for $175 in a sale?
But you know what you paid for it, can that not be your guide?
That is the problem though for both the actual old/rare stuff and the CC's that most of this discussion is about
If I sell something which is in high demand or rare for zero profit, there is a very good chance that the person I sell it to will end up reselling it (publicly or privately) for much much more.
Example: Lets say I put up an ad to sell my OG TRI CC to the 1st person who pm's me for $50. There is a much smaller number of people on here who would actually keep and appreciate it vs. those that who would instantly flip it for a nice profit on their end. Lets say its a 20%/80% split there of types of members, and I doubt its even that many percentage wise that would be on the keeping it side. So if there is an 80% chance of me selling it to someone else who will flip it and make $200-$250 profit why in the heck would I want to-do that? It still sold for an outrageous price in the end and someone else made all the profit for being the fastest at pm'ing. So basically the same thing that happens after the EK sales, except its the original seller here losing out instead of CC on the profit
The point i'm trying to make is that its too risky and stupid for a seller to blindly give a deal to someone when more likely than not its just going to get flipped. CC might not care seeing people profit from the luck of the EK/4grabs sale. But I sure as hell don't want someone to make huge profits from me being nice and selling at a reasonable price....
That's when you call them out for it and make them feel like crap for doing it. Let everyone know what type of person they are to do it. Make sure no one wants to deal with that person. I would rather be here with the 20%, to use your example, and the other 80% can go take a flying leap.
And im sure this'll be great when you make JDHack
I understand your passion, but i don't agree with your method.
Unless a Mod or someone in power at GH tells me so, i would not adhere to any of your stance and would report your posts as harassment/trolling/threadcrapping.
But you know what you paid for it, can that not be your guide?
That is the problem though for both the actual old/rare stuff and the CC's that most of this discussion is about
If I sell something which is in high demand or rare for zero profit, there is a very good chance that the person I sell it to will end up reselling it (publicly or privately) for much much more.
Example: Lets say I put up an ad to sell my OG TRI CC to the 1st person who pm's me for $50. There is a much smaller number of people on here who would actually keep and appreciate it vs. those that who would instantly flip it for a nice profit on their end. Lets say its a 20%/80% split there of types of members, and I doubt its even that many percentage wise that would be on the keeping it side. So if there is an 80% chance of me selling it to someone else who will flip it and make $200-$250 profit why in the heck would I want to-do that? It still sold for an outrageous price in the end and someone else made all the profit for being the fastest at pm'ing. So basically the same thing that happens after the EK sales, except its the original seller here losing out instead of CC on the profit
The point i'm trying to make is that its too risky and stupid for a seller to blindly give a deal to someone when more likely than not its just going to get flipped. CC might not care seeing people profit from the luck of the EK/4grabs sale. But I sure as hell don't want someone to make huge profits from me being nice and selling at a reasonable price....
That's when you call them out for it and make them feel like crap for doing it. Let everyone know what type of person they are to do it. Make sure no one wants to deal with that person. I would rather be here with the 20%, to use your example, and the other 80% can go take a flying leap.
And im sure this'll be great when you make JDHack
I understand your passion, but i don't agree with your method.
Unless a Mod or someone in power at GH tells me so, i would not adhere to any of your stance and would report your posts as harassment/trolling/threadcrapping.
You don't have to agree with me. Just the acknowledgement that I'm right is enough.
Until then, you're as bad as TP, MW, and Ripster imo.
Okay that is pretty ****ing cold man. Cheapshot. Jd is a great guy, does a ton for the community. Can't you just agree to disagree?But you know what you paid for it, can that not be your guide?
That is the problem though for both the actual old/rare stuff and the CC's that most of this discussion is about
If I sell something which is in high demand or rare for zero profit, there is a very good chance that the person I sell it to will end up reselling it (publicly or privately) for much much more.
Example: Lets say I put up an ad to sell my OG TRI CC to the 1st person who pm's me for $50. There is a much smaller number of people on here who would actually keep and appreciate it vs. those that who would instantly flip it for a nice profit on their end. Lets say its a 20%/80% split there of types of members, and I doubt its even that many percentage wise that would be on the keeping it side. So if there is an 80% chance of me selling it to someone else who will flip it and make $200-$250 profit why in the heck would I want to-do that? It still sold for an outrageous price in the end and someone else made all the profit for being the fastest at pm'ing. So basically the same thing that happens after the EK sales, except its the original seller here losing out instead of CC on the profit
The point i'm trying to make is that its too risky and stupid for a seller to blindly give a deal to someone when more likely than not its just going to get flipped. CC might not care seeing people profit from the luck of the EK/4grabs sale. But I sure as hell don't want someone to make huge profits from me being nice and selling at a reasonable price....
That's when you call them out for it and make them feel like crap for doing it. Let everyone know what type of person they are to do it. Make sure no one wants to deal with that person. I would rather be here with the 20%, to use your example, and the other 80% can go take a flying leap.
And im sure this'll be great when you make JDHack
I understand your passion, but i don't agree with your method.
Unless a Mod or someone in power at GH tells me so, i would not adhere to any of your stance and would report your posts as harassment/trolling/threadcrapping.
You don't have to agree with me. Just the acknowledgement that I'm right is enough.
don't get it wrong, i said i understand the passion, i don't agree with it though.
I def don't agree with the method
when you're running the site, i'll follow the rules/instructions handed out by you.
Until then, you're as bad as TP, MW, and Ripster imo.
Until then, you're as bad as TP, MW, and Ripster imo.
Until then, you're as bad as TP, MW, and Ripster imo.
Hold on a second, someone disagrees with you and he's made out to be a troll? Interesting logic. I disagree with you. Call me a troll too.
don't get it wrong, i said i understand the passion, i don't agree with it though.
I def don't agree with the method
when you're running the site, i'll follow the rules/instructions handed out by you.
Until then, you're as bad as TP, MW, and Ripster imo.
Until then, you're as bad as TP, MW, and Ripster imo.
Hold on a second, someone disagrees with you and he's made out to be a troll? Interesting logic. I disagree with you. Call me a troll too.
captain troll!! :P
i said i don't agree with his actions, why wouldn't he be considered a troll if he's going to be blasting people in threads?I don't really think TP is a troll. He obviously is very passionate about eDox. Nothing wrong with that.
Is TP not trolling when he goes on his Ergodox rants?
I specifically said if he was going to act like that, i don't see how he's any better than those trolls. Yeah his hearts in the right place, but the method of execution is wrong.
I like how its a gangup now because i disagree with his method, and somehow im trying to protect myself and my profits lol.
Until then, you're as bad as TP, MW, and Ripster imo.
i said i don't agree with his actions, why wouldn't he be considered a troll if he's going to be blasting people in threads?I don't really think TP is a troll. He obviously is very passionate about eDox. Nothing wrong with that.
Is TP not trolling when he goes on his Ergodox rants?
I specifically said if he was going to act like that, i don't see how he's any better than those trolls. Yeah his hearts in the right place, but the method of execution is wrong.
I like how its a gangup now because i disagree with his method, and somehow im trying to protect myself and my profits lol.
Until then, you're as bad as TP, MW, and Ripster imo.
What in the hell ... sorry who are you? These are fighting words.
Unless you're intentionally trollceptioning, trolling by means of troll accusations. In which case, bravo.
Back on topic, if we let people post ebay auctions but explicitly say its their ebay auction, then people won't have purely GH auctions with all the problems.
There will still be auctions but different
Back on topic, if we let people post ebay auctions but explicitly say its their ebay auction, then people won't have purely GH auctions.
What about creating a sub forum in the classifieds thread for posting eBay auctions and just have all comments locked? This with banning all local auctions I feel would be the best bet. If we just straight ban auctions the ones that really want to do an auction to maximize profits will just go somewhere else. If the comments are blocked for links to peoples personal auctions from eBay than we eliminate/greatly reduce the frequency of trolling/bullying people to reduce prices that others may not agree with. If someone has an issue with a particular item they can send a pm via eBay.
What about creating a sub forum in the classifieds thread for posting eBay auctions and just have all comments locked? This with banning all local auctions I feel would be the best bet. If we just straight ban auctions the ones that really want to do an auction to maximize profits will just go somewhere else. If the comments are blocked for links to peoples personal auctions from eBay than we eliminate/greatly reduce the frequency of trolling/bullying people to reduce prices that others may not agree with. If someone has an issue with a particular item they can send a pm via eBay.
^^ This plus a subforum dedicated to clack trades/sales to keep them out of the regular classifieds.
Can we hear a little from the moderators now? As some have already mentioned, I think that banning auctions alone won't solve much.
The buying/selling culture has to begin to change. If the moderators come to an agreement that overpricing items has overall negative effects on the community, then the moderators should do their part in socializing the community in a top-down fashion. Forum rules should indicate that conscious overpricing of items should be forbidden, or at the very least, looked down-upon and subject to criticism from the community.
who are we to stop them?
Until then, you're as bad as TP, MW, and Ripster imo.
i said i don't agree with his actions, why wouldn't he be considered a troll if he's going to be blasting people in threads?
Is TP not trolling when he goes on his Ergodox rants?
I like how its a gangup now because i disagree with his method, and somehow im trying to protect myself and my profits lol.
i dont get it, how are his claims that he will belittle and berate and keep posting in topics/classified threads/etc to break down the "Greedy seller" and make him/her feel guilty not bullying or trolling?
and im but a minor member of GH, not very vocal, but apparently touched a nerve?
*Edit*
To clarify, i know how much JD does for GH, more than me def.
I just view the way he said he'd go around to berate and belittle those who are profiteering and "greedy" as disruptive as TP, MW and Ripster when they go off on their tangents. Apparently bringing up TP/MW/Ripsters = someone's a troll
Look at that, we know they're trolls and yet they're still (well minus ripster) in the community
I was saying his actions are as disruptive as those people.
I also said i would follow the rules of the forums. I don't believe in harassing to make a point. So i would view harassment even in classified about profiteering and what not as disruptive as TP going on and on about eDox or ripster back in the days posting a bunch of gifs.
who are we to stop them?
Have you not been following the thread? We are the members of this forum! We will stop them! You have the power! Refuse to pay such ridiculous prices, for a start. Convince other to do the same.
I feel like moving auctions to ebay is important simply to help prevent abuse. Even if that's all we did and prices/jimmies didn't change, I think it would be worthwhile.
but im pretty sure the majority of people on geekhack also browse /r/mechmarket,
then your lying to yourself Esoomenona even posted a WTB on /r/mechmarket.
http://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/1pyvm5/wtb_mx_gumrot/
then your lying to yourself Esoomenona even posted a WTB on /r/mechmarket.
http://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/1pyvm5/wtb_mx_gumrot/
then your lying to yourself Esoomenona even posted a WTB on /r/mechmarket.
http://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/1pyvm5/wtb_mx_gumrot/
Wow, one person posted a WTB in both areas, that proves that most everyone looks at both!
Or not. I mean, I could say no one does because I don't and have literally the same strength of argument you have.
So you want to give mod's the power to tell people "you cannot sell your item here, it is priced too high"Can we hear a little from the moderators now? As some have already mentioned, I think that banning auctions alone won't solve much.
The buying/selling culture has to begin to change. If the moderators come to an agreement that overpricing items has overall negative effects on the community, then the moderators should do their part in socializing the community in a top-down fashion. Forum rules should indicate that conscious overpricing of items should be forbidden, or at the very least, looked down-upon and subject to criticism from the community.
You cannot limit over pricing. If someone want to get an astronomical price for their CC and another is willing to pay it who are we to stop them? I am by no mean condoning high prices and ridiculous auctions, just saying
So you want to give mod's the power to tell people "you cannot sell your item here, it is priced too high"Can we hear a little from the moderators now? As some have already mentioned, I think that banning auctions alone won't solve much.
The buying/selling culture has to begin to change. If the moderators come to an agreement that overpricing items has overall negative effects on the community, then the moderators should do their part in socializing the community in a top-down fashion. Forum rules should indicate that conscious overpricing of items should be forbidden, or at the very least, looked down-upon and subject to criticism from the community.
You cannot limit over pricing. If someone want to get an astronomical price for their CC and another is willing to pay it who are we to stop them? I am by no mean condoning high prices and ridiculous auctions, just saying
Nothing could go wrong with that! iMav has stated before that staff should take a hands off approach to the classifieds. I don't really oppose moving auctions to eBay, but I don't really think that it is necessary.
But you know what you paid for it, can that not be your guide?
That is the problem though for both the actual old/rare stuff and the CC's that most of this discussion is about
If I sell something which is in high demand or rare for zero profit, there is a very good chance that the person I sell it to will end up reselling it (publicly or privately) for much much more.
Example: Lets say I put up an ad to sell my OG TRI CC to the 1st person who pm's me for $50. There is a much smaller number of people on here who would actually keep and appreciate it vs. those that who would instantly flip it for a nice profit on their end. Lets say its a 20%/80% split there of types of members, and I doubt its even that many percentage wise that would be on the keeping it side. So if there is an 80% chance of me selling it to someone else who will flip it and make $200-$250 profit why in the heck would I want to-do that? It still sold for an outrageous price in the end and someone else made all the profit for being the fastest at pm'ing. So basically the same thing that happens after the EK sales, except its the original seller here losing out instead of CC on the profit
The point i'm trying to make is that its too risky and stupid for a seller to blindly give a deal to someone when more likely than not its just going to get flipped. CC might not care seeing people profit from the luck of the EK/4grabs sale. But I sure as hell don't want someone to make huge profits from me being nice and selling at a reasonable price....
That's when you call them out for it and make them feel like crap for doing it. Let everyone know what type of person they are to do it. Make sure no one wants to deal with that person. I would rather be here with the 20%, to use your example, and the other 80% can go take a flying leap.
Until then, you're as bad as TP, MW, and Ripster imo.i said i don't agree with his actions, why wouldn't he be considered a troll if he's going to be blasting people in threads?
Is TP not trolling when he goes on his Ergodox rants?
I like how its a gangup now because i disagree with his method, and somehow im trying to protect myself and my profits lol.i dont get it, how are his claims that he will belittle and berate and keep posting in topics/classified threads/etc to break down the "Greedy seller" and make him/her feel guilty not bullying or trolling?
and im but a minor member of GH, not very vocal, but apparently touched a nerve?
*Edit*
To clarify, i know how much JD does for GH, more than me def.
I just view the way he said he'd go around to berate and belittle those who are profiteering and "greedy" as disruptive as TP, MW and Ripster when they go off on their tangents. Apparently bringing up TP/MW/Ripsters = someone's a troll
Look at that, we know they're trolls and yet they're still (well minus ripster) in the community
I was saying his actions are as disruptive as those people.
I also said i would follow the rules of the forums. I don't believe in harassing to make a point. So i would view harassment even in classified about profiteering and what not as disruptive as TP going on and on about eDox or ripster back in the days posting a bunch of gifs.
I'm going to say this and move on. I said what I said because you couldn't hold an argument without resorting to name calling and a personal attacks. "YOU ARE" is saying something personal yes? Discussing methods with theoretical people and claiming things is not personal. Just because you disagree with him doesn't mean you get to make personal attacks. Has JD ever called you a name here? Don't think so.
And don't martyr yourself. It's just unbecoming. "I was ganged up on. I'm a minor GH member". Cut the ****. Argue and know that people are going to have differing opinions. That doesn't make them more right or wrong than you, just different.
Until then, you're as bad as TP, MW, and Ripster imo.
/me ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED
I feel like moving auctions to ebay is important simply to help prevent abuse. Even if that's all we did and prices/jimmies didn't change, I think it would be worthwhile.
I agree.
As you can imagine, I like the auctions. In reality, they build excitement and community activity, like it or not. In all honesty, I am not a real active member and don't participate in the community aspect as much as many but I do try to support members and the forum. That said, just remember that there are many sides to view things from and many people come here for various reasons and enjoy diffetent things, not necessarily for the same reasons you may be here.
I have always been of the free enterprise view and anyone can do whatever they want with their items. In my opinion, it is not the activity, an auction, that divides the community, but in fact, it is the constant whining and butthurt. Maybe the whiners need removed. Think about it, if $20 items were auctioned for $1000 and there was no whining, jelousy, envy, butthurt, call it whay you want, but instead, joy for the new owner, would there be an issue? I am guessing not. I don't want to call people out and respect the views of others. There are many here against auctions and I will adk this, if I auction a $20 item for $1000 how does it honestly negatively effect you. It should have no effect on you, yourself. You are just tired of the *****ing. Maybe those individual need to grow up and reexamine their perspectivrs. If there was no *****ing there would be no problem.
John
As you can imagine, I like the auctions. In reality, they build excitement and community activity, like it or not. In all honesty, I am not a real active member and don't participate in the community aspect as much as many but I do try to support members and the forum. That said, just remember that there are many sides to view things from and many people come here for various reasons and enjoy diffetent things, not necessarily for the same reasons you may be here.
I have always been of the free enterprise view and anyone can do whatever they want with their items. In my opinion, it is not the activity, an auction, that divides the community, but in fact, it is the constant whining and butthurt. Maybe the whiners need removed. Think about it, if $20 items were auctioned for $1000 and there was no whining, jelousy, envy, butthurt, call it whay you want, but instead, joy for the new owner, would there be an issue? I am guessing not. I don't want to call people out and respect the views of others. There are many here against auctions and I will adk this, if I auction a $20 item for $1000 how does it honestly negatively effect you. It should have no effect on you, yourself. You are just tired of the *****ing. Maybe those individual need to grow up and reexamine their perspectivrs. If there was no *****ing there would be no problem.
John
This would be fine if the entity selling the Clacks was selling them at whatever price they could get..completely free market..
But what we have here is someone that is keeping the prices low because he wants the community to share in the enjoyment. Based on what they sell for here he could easily sell them for significantly more and people would still buy them. He keeps prices low so the people that want to enjoy them can enjoy them without really hurting their wallet.
What ends up happening is people then end up making money off his back...You have people trying to buy them, not for their enjoyment, but so they can flip them immediately. The intent of keeping the prices low so the community can enjoy them instead turns into people trying to get them to try to make money off of someone else's work.
I have no issues with sales, auctions, etc..per se...I think other than shill bidding, auctions aren't a big deal...but it is pretty sad to see people flip clacks right away...They've basically taken someone's goodwill and turned it on its head..it is going to happen in situations like this. People aren't stupid, they'll buy a 100 dollar bill for 25 dollars...but at the same time, the community itself should not facilitate that behavior..take it somewhere else..
While not quite shill bidding, Cactux's bidding in some recent auction threads could be considered shill bidding by some since he's only bidding to increase the sale price, not to try and win.
But what we have here is someone that is keeping the prices low because he wants the community to share in the enjoyment.I am curious how you know the thoughts and intent of CC. Do not speak for someone else who has not voiced their opinion since this really exploded a year or so ago. While you may be 100% correct, It simply is not fair. (and don't paste the extremely generic comment cc made a long time ago that really does not address the issue)
The intent of keeping the prices low so the community can enjoy them instead turns into people trying to get them to try to make money off of someone else's work.
They've basically taken someone's goodwill and turned it on its head.
But what we have here is someone that is keeping the prices low because he wants the community to share in the enjoyment.I am curious how you know the thoughts and intent of CC. Do not speak for someone else who has not voiced their opinion since this really exploded a year or so ago. While you may be 100% correct, It simply is not fair. (and don't paste the extremely generic comment cc made a long time ago that really does not address the issue)
The intent of keeping the prices low so the community can enjoy them instead turns into people trying to get them to try to make money off of someone else's work.
They've basically taken someone's goodwill and turned it on its head.
John
As you can imagine, I like the auctions. In reality, they build excitement and community activity, like it or not. In all honesty, I am not a real active member and don't participate in the community aspect as much as many but I do try to support members and the forum. That said, just remember that there are many sides to view things from and many people come here for various reasons and enjoy diffetent things, not necessarily for the same reasons you may be here.
I have always been of the free enterprise view and anyone can do whatever they want with their items. In my opinion, it is not the activity, an auction, that divides the community, but in fact, it is the constant whining and butthurt. Maybe the whiners need removed. Think about it, if $20 items were auctioned for $1000 and there was no whining, jelousy, envy, butthurt, call it whay you want, but instead, joy for the new owner, would there be an issue? I am guessing not. I don't want to call people out and respect the views of others. There are many here against auctions and I will adk this, if I auction a $20 item for $1000 how does it honestly negatively effect you. It should have no effect on you, yourself. You are just tired of the *****ing. Maybe those individual need to grow up and reexamine their perspectivrs. If there was no *****ing there would be no problem.
John
This would be fine if the entity selling the Clacks was selling them at whatever price they could get..completely free market..
But what we have here is someone that is keeping the prices low because he wants the community to share in the enjoyment. Based on what they sell for here he could easily sell them for significantly more and people would still buy them. He keeps prices low so the people that want to enjoy them can enjoy them without really hurting their wallet.
What ends up happening is people then end up making money off his back...You have people trying to buy them, not for their enjoyment, but so they can flip them immediately. The intent of keeping the prices low so the community can enjoy them instead turns into people trying to get them to try to make money off of someone else's work.
I have no issues with sales, auctions, etc..per se...I think other than shill bidding, auctions aren't a big deal...but it is pretty sad to see people flip clacks right away...They've basically taken someone's goodwill and turned it on its head..it is going to happen in situations like this. People aren't stupid, they'll buy a 100 dollar bill for 25 dollars...but at the same time, the community itself should not facilitate that behavior..take it somewhere else..
Noob question but what is "shill bidding"?
While not quite shill bidding, Cactux's bidding in some recent auction threads could be considered shill bidding by some since he's only bidding to increase the sale price, not to try and win.
There is nothing wrong with what he is doing for one important reason: if he ends up with the highest bid, he is obligated to pay that for the item. If you notice him bidding on something he doesn't even want... let him win it. He'll stop bidding on things he doesn't want pretty quickly if he starts winning them. Then, if he wins the auctions and backs out since he didn't want the items in the first place, you have a basis to legitimately ignore him in any future auctions for failure to pay after winning.
What are you even talking about jcrouse? Sounds like you are getting mad at him for no reason, and your comments don't even match up with his.What? I stated that I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I respect that. What part of that do you not understand. I am in no way mad. We are openly discussing something here are there is certainly no reason to point blame, although you are emntitled to your opinions. If you did not understand my point you should read it again.
If you want to blame anyone, blame yourself for starting this massive problem of people throwing their wallets at clacks.
We should run a poll to determine what the community thinks of selling, auctions and the marketplace in general. CF should still have lotteries, but raise the prices. The "real" price of a clack is not the $40 price that CF asks for -- it's the $100+ prices that people are willing to pay. If CF will agree to run his lotteries at the real market price, then at least the extra money will be riding on CF's hip.I don't really think it is right to try and tell CC how to set his own prices. The whole point of the lottery is so you can feel awesome when you win a clack for so damn cheap. He obviously has his motif's for setting the prices how he does, lets try not to drag him into this bull****. He's just a guy who likes to create keys as a hobby.
If CF will agree to run his lotteries at the real market price, then at least the extra money will be riding on CF's hip.But people will still be angry they did not get one, can't afford it or dont have any. No?
We should run a poll to determine what the community thinks of selling, auctions and the marketplace in general. CF should still have lotteries, but raise the prices. The "real" price of a clack is not the $40 price that CF asks for -- it's the $100+ prices that people are willing to pay. If CF will agree to run his lotteries at the real market price, then at least the extra money will be riding on CF's hip.I don't really think it is right to try and tell CC how to set his own prices. The whole point of the lottery is so you can feel awesome when you win a clack for so damn cheap. He obviously has his motif's for setting the prices how he does, lets try not to drag him into this bull****. He's just a guy who likes to create keys as a hobby.
If CF will agree to run his lotteries at the real market price, then at least the extra money will be riding on CF's hip.But people will still be angry they did not get one, can't afford it or dont have any. No?
Olivia Wilde doesn't return any of my phone calls.
While not quite shill bidding, Cactux's bidding in some recent auction threads could be considered shill bidding by some since he's only bidding to increase the sale price, not to try and win.
There is nothing wrong with what he is doing for one important reason: if he ends up with the highest bid, he is obligated to pay that for the item. If you notice him bidding on something he doesn't even want... let him win it. He'll stop bidding on things he doesn't want pretty quickly if he starts winning them. Then, if he wins the auctions and backs out since he didn't want the items in the first place, you have a basis to legitimately ignore him in any future auctions for failure to pay after winning.
Right, Cactux would "win" on an item he doesn't want, but since GH doesn't have the infrastructure (like an auction site) to enforce that negative outcome on him, who can really be sure? When fraud occurs at a site like eBay, eBay can handle the resolution.
Olivia Wilde doesn't return any of my phone calls.
Make sure you are using a modem!
(Attachment Link)
There seems to be a whole lot of idealism going on here. I think there are some who need to step back and think about things realistically.
There seems to be a whole lot of idealism going on here. I think there are some who need to step back and think about things realistically.
/me Puts on reading glasses, sits in the rocking chair, and puffs from his pipe of tobacco...
My ideals of this forum and this community come not from some "fantasy world" where everything is utopia and everyone is happy. They come from MY ACTUAL FORUM EXPERIENCE IN THE MONTHS FOLLOWING MY JOINING THIS COMMUNITY. How I describe things is how the forum actually worked at that time.
Then two things happened, almost simultaneously, that changed this forum, and not for the better, in my opinion.
1. Ripster went Super Troll, and got himself banned. Not only from here, but from Deskthority as well.
2. The R00TW0RM attack brought the site down, and it was several weeks before it went live again.
After the R00TW0RM attack, some senior members decided not to return. It was from them (and others) that I obtained the guidance that shaped my ideas as to how one should conduct him/herself in this community. The loss of those members has created a void that has not been adequately filled. I will shoulder part of that blame. I allowed the laissez faire attitude now prevalent to overrule my desire to help guide how others behaved on the forum. I didn't think it was my place to do it; that I wasn't senior enough to be suggesting how others should conduct themselves. But I was wrong in that assumption. It is every member's place to do so, when they feel things are headed in the wrong direction.
The other side of the Ripster incident was that because he was banned from the two primary English-speaking keyboard enthusiast forums, he went to Reddit and started the subreddit /r/mechanicalkeyboards. Because Reddit has a large audience, all of whom can browse the subreddits, his visibility increased to a wider audience. Of course, Ripster was, and, to my admittedly limited knowledge of him, still remains obsessed with all things Geekhack, so he naturally spews forth about our forum there for his disciples/minions/readers to consume. This had the effect of increasing the visibility of Geekhack to a wider audience, as well. I'm not saying that is necessarily a bad thing, but the influx of a great number of new users in a short period of time has caused some turbulence here, with regard to how members are expected to conduct themselves.
That's how we got to this point. Where we go from here is up to us. I haven't given up on people, yet. I still believe that people can come together, talk about keyboards, and make cool new stuff, without always trying to extract money from each other's wallets.
/nostalgia
GH has plenty of infrastructure to deal with people who back out of auctions, especially if auctions get their own sub-forum. 1st time backing out? 1 month ban from auctions sub-forum. 2nd time backing out? 1 year ban. Simple.
Even if mods don't help out with enforcing, if other sellers know about somebody backing out of a win, they can simply ignore any bids from that person in the future. Put simply, keep a personal ban list of people who cannot bid on your auctions.
In the event of a back-out, no real fraud happens since no money is transferred, and no item is lost. It surely is inconvenient for the seller, since they then have to auction the item again, but there is no loss besides time.
But what we have here is someone that is keeping the prices low because he wants the community to share in the enjoyment.I am curious how you know the thoughts and intent of CC. Do not speak for someone else who has not voiced their opinion since this really exploded a year or so ago. While you may be 100% correct, It simply is not fair. (and don't paste the extremely generic comment cc made a long time ago that really does not address the issue)
The intent of keeping the prices low so the community can enjoy them instead turns into people trying to get them to try to make money off of someone else's work.
They've basically taken someone's goodwill and turned it on its head.
John
I allowed the laissez faire attitude now prevalent to overrule my desire to help guide how others behaved on the forum. I didn't think it was my place to do it; that I wasn't senior enough to be suggesting how others should conduct themselves. But I was wrong in that assumption. It is every member's place to do so, when they feel things are headed in the wrong direction.
-- snip --
How do you really know that I didn't buy Olivia Wilde the 'Neverending Pasta Bowl' (http://blog.pe.com/food-and-drink/2013/08/09/dining-olive-gardens-never-ending-pasta-bowl-returns/) in an attempt to impress her? I just told you I did. That's what I mean by eBay having the proper infrastructure; they can see the money going into and out of accounts -- GH can't, and shouldn't. And they can inflict a lot more punishment than GH can. And you can't hide who you are with sock puppetry on eBay.
ITT: people protecting their investments with bull**** reasoning.
Also, nobody here knows exactly what CC thinks so stop acting like his rep and saying **** he hasn't said himself. It's an insult to him and makes you look desperate to prove your point.Teller of truths
'Also, nobody here knows exactly what CC thinks so stop acting like his rep and saying **** he hasn't said himself. It's an insult to him and makes you look desperate to prove your point.Teller of truths
ITT: people protecting their investments with bull**** reasoning.
Also, nobody here knows exactly what CC thinks so stop acting like his rep and saying **** he hasn't said himself. It's an insult to him and makes you look desperate to prove your point.
Perhaps fewer people may frequent the boards (unlikely, but possible that some people are here only for that)If a member is only here to profit and take advantage of other members though auctions, then by all means they can leave.
Slowing down of sales because non-auction sales are considered less exciting?Less exciting? You mean drama? Are you saying that drama is good for the community?
People feeling they won't get the best price so don't bother selling here at all?This is a community, not a store. If your only intent is to make money then go to ebay.
If a member is only here to profit and take advantage of other members though auctions, then by all means they can leave.
Perhaps fewer people may frequent the boards (unlikely, but possible that some people are here only for that)If a member is only here to profit and take advantage of other members though auctions, then by all means they can leave.Slowing down of sales because non-auction sales are considered less exciting?Less exciting? You mean drama? Are you saying that drama is good for the community?People feeling they won't get the best price so don't bother selling here at all?This is a community, not a store. If your only intent is to make money then go to ebay.
If a member is only here to profit and take advantage of other members though auctions, then by all means they can leave.
I don't really understand this. It takes two (or more) to auction. You have a seller and buyer(s), and each must participate in order for an auction to complete. By way of this, I don't think you can say that anybody is taken advantage of through an auction. If you don't like an auction, don't bid. If you don't want to pay as much as the auction has reached for an item you want, don't bid. This isn't rocket science. You can't be taken advantage of if you don't let yourself be taken advantage of.
If a member is only here to profit and take advantage of other members though auctions, then by all means they can leave.
I don't really understand this. It takes two (or more) to auction. You have a seller and buyer(s), and each must participate in order for an auction to complete. By way of this, I don't think you can say that anybody is taken advantage of through an auction. If you don't like an auction, don't bid. If you don't want to pay as much as the auction has reached for an item you want, don't bid. This isn't rocket science. You can't be taken advantage of if you don't let yourself be taken advantage of.
The bidders aren't the only parties being affected, unfortunately. Anyone who does not participate because the price has reached obnoxious proportions is affected. Thus, the entire community is taken advantage of because of a small percentage of profiteers.
^-^ Starting to feel this thread has no purpose other than to stir up debate. If the points have not been said by now I think it is a moot point to pump them up much like a hillbilly working on clearing the septic tank.
Is there any chance that there will be a resolution to this concern which many have about the Geekhack Classifieds section?
Lol a clack trading board? Seriously? Lets make a BroBot trading board while we're at it, and maybe a trading board for Korean boards.
^-^ Starting to feel this thread has no purpose other than to stir up debate. If the points have not been said by now I think it is a moot point to pump them up much like a hillbilly working on clearing the septic tank.
Is there any chance that there will be a resolution to this concern which many have about the Geekhack Classifieds section?
A debate is exactly what is needed to hash this out. Without it we wouldn't come to any resolution. If the admins/mods made the change without giving ample time to discuss, even more trouble would be caused. Due diligence here, and, for me personally, I hope we do see a classified rules overhaul soon.
My opinion based upon experience with forums and the above discussions:
1. No auctions or links to ebay auctions in classifieds.
2. Pictures of items must be present along with a handwritten piece of paper with GH username and date in the pic(s).
3. 24 hour bump rule, perhaps 48.
4. Define "threadcrapping" in terms that admins/mods agree upon and enforce it strictly.
I'm curious to hear how you think non-participants are affected by an auction.
Also, please explain how anybody is taken advantage of. An auction is between a seller and buyers. It is an organized competition requiring consent from all involved parties. Bidders enter into the auction with an understanding that they may not win, and that in order to win they will have to outbid other bidders. This is accepted by anybody who bids. If an auction reaches a price that is too high for a bidder, they can simply stop bidding. If they are not comfortable paying the price it has reached, they don't have to. Again, this is stupid simple stuff. No rocket science here. Nobody is being taken advantage of. People who pay lots for stuff in auctions are doing so because they want to.
Anyone who does not participate because the price has reached obnoxious proportions is affectedFurther explanation: If I choose not to participate in an auction because a $50 item is now $150, how exactly am I NOT affected? I want to buy this $50 item but it's now absurdly priced at $150. I either cannot afford the $150 price tag or find it insulting for a $50 item. Furthermore, those individuals who ended up in a bidding war are also taken advantage of because they may have paid way more than they would have if the item wasn't sold via an auction.
Thus, the entire community is taken advantage of because of a small percentage of profiteers.
If I choose not to participate in an auction because a $50 item is now $150, how exactly am I NOT affected?
You repeat this process over numerous auctions and...
Auctions are greedy and exploitative by nature and I don't believe they have any place in this community.
I completely disagree with almost everything you said. I won't respond to each point since the discussion on the real world market vs GH as a community has already taken place earlier in the thread. It seems we're at crossing roads here. People either see this forum as a community of people with similar interests or more of a mechanical keyboard market where one can make significant profit off other members. The ethical difference is the dividing factor.This is definitely a community with people of similar interests, but I don't think it is inherently wrong for somebody to want to get the most amount of money they can for an item.
I completely disagree with almost everything you said. I won't respond to each point since the discussion on the real world market vs GH as a community has already taken place earlier in the thread. It seems we're at crossing roads here. People either see this forum as a community of people with similar interests or more of a mechanical keyboard market where one can make significant profit off other members. The ethical difference is the dividing factor.
^-^ Starting to feel this thread has no purpose other than to stir up debate. If the points have not been said by now I think it is a moot point to pump them up much like a hillbilly working on clearing the septic tank.
Is there any chance that there will be a resolution to this concern which many have about the Geekhack Classifieds section?
stuff like this becomes a problem:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50679.0
"highest bid" yet there is no proof.
Also, nobody here knows exactly what CC thinks so stop acting like his rep and saying **** he hasn't said himself. It's an insult to him and makes you look desperate to prove your point.
Expensive Novelty keycaps for SaleThat is dumb. The reason there are so many clack threads in classifieds at the moment is because there was just an EK sale. Usually there aren't that many, or a person puts the clacks the want/are trying to trade/sell in a thread with other stuff. Typically the classifieds is not a process of wading through a sea of clacks.
Although everyone has a different opinion of what expensive is but whatever.
Auctions are the bane of geekhack classifieds imo. They should be banned as should raffles.Why don't you like raffles? Usually they donate to GH
Auctions are the bane of geekhack classifieds imo. They should be banned as should raffles.Why don't you like raffles? Usually they donate to GH
Auctions are the bane of geekhack classifieds imo. They should be banned as should raffles.Why don't you like raffles? Usually they donate to GH
Legality reasons.
Auctions are the bane of geekhack classifieds imo. They should be banned as should raffles.Why don't you like raffles? Usually they donate to GH
Legality reasons.
Oh really? (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50549.0)
I also held auctions that donated directly to GH.
Honestly - I think there is way too much butthurt here regarding auctions and it has almost 100% to do with Clacks.
Instead of trying to remove auctions, you need to just set rules in place and regulate them. It's really not that hard.
I also held auctions that donated directly to GH.
Honestly - I think there is way too much butthurt here regarding auctions and it has almost 100% to do with Clacks.
Instead of trying to remove auctions, you need to just set rules in place and regulate them. It's really not that hard.
I also held auctions that donated directly to GH.
Honestly - I think there is way too much butthurt here regarding auctions and it has almost 100% to do with Clacks.
Instead of trying to remove auctions, you need to just set rules in place and regulate them. It's really not that hard.
Rules in regards to clacks? What do you have in mind?
I also held auctions that donated directly to GH.
Honestly - I think there is way too much butthurt here regarding auctions and it has almost 100% to do with Clacks.
Instead of trying to remove auctions, you need to just set rules in place and regulate them. It's really not that hard.
Rules in regards to clacks? What do you have in mind?
Rules set in place for auctions. Such as setting up a formatted way to post an auction. No private bidding, etc.
I also held auctions that donated directly to GH.
Honestly - I think there is way too much butthurt here regarding auctions and it has almost 100% to do with Clacks.
Instead of trying to remove auctions, you need to just set rules in place and regulate them. It's really not that hard.
Rules in regards to clacks? What do you have in mind?
Rules set in place for auctions. Such as setting up a formatted way to post an auction. No private bidding, etc.
I don't think private bidding changes anything. If people are allowed to sell novelty keycaps for a massive price hike, they will do it by any means available to them: auction, PM, or even just straight-up demanding $150 in a sale thread. The real issue behind the "butthurt" is the fact that the obnoxious resale prices are allowed. The method which they are sold through really doesn't matter, but auctions seem to be creator of the highest prices.
I also held auctions that donated directly to GH.
Honestly - I think there is way too much butthurt here regarding auctions and it has almost 100% to do with Clacks.
Instead of trying to remove auctions, you need to just set rules in place and regulate them. It's really not that hard.
Rules in regards to clacks? What do you have in mind?
Rules set in place for auctions. Such as setting up a formatted way to post an auction. No private bidding, etc.
I don't think private bidding changes anything. If people are allowed to sell novelty keycaps for a massive price hike, they will do it by any means available to them: auction, PM, or even just straight-up demanding $150 in a sale thread. The real issue behind the "butthurt" is the fact that the obnoxious resale prices are allowed. The method which they are sold through really doesn't matter, but auctions seem to be creator of the highest prices.
Market demand drives price. It's the same for any economy. If someone asks 500 for a clack, and nobody buys it - well hey, guess that's not the market price.
Also, auctions with only 100 dollar differentiation between buy it now and reserve are a prime example of people not knowing how to make an auction. A regulation for that difference can be set.
But overall, getting rid of auctions is NOT going to change the price of clacks. Instead of maybe getting it for a lower price, you are going to see them at the highest price in [FS].
Again - getting rid of auctions is not the answer, its a cop-out for lacking the ability to come up with a better solution.
I also held auctions that donated directly to GH.
Honestly - I think there is way too much butthurt here regarding auctions and it has almost 100% to do with Clacks.
Instead of trying to remove auctions, you need to just set rules in place and regulate them. It's really not that hard.
Rules in regards to clacks? What do you have in mind?
Rules set in place for auctions. Such as setting up a formatted way to post an auction. No private bidding, etc.
I don't think private bidding changes anything. If people are allowed to sell novelty keycaps for a massive price hike, they will do it by any means available to them: auction, PM, or even just straight-up demanding $150 in a sale thread. The real issue behind the "butthurt" is the fact that the obnoxious resale prices are allowed. The method which they are sold through really doesn't matter, but auctions seem to be creator of the highest prices.
Market demand drives price. It's the same for any economy. If someone asks 500 for a clack, and nobody buys it - well hey, guess that's not the market price.
Also, auctions with only 100 dollar differentiation between buy it now and reserve are a prime example of people not knowing how to make an auction. A regulation for that difference can be set.
But overall, getting rid of auctions is NOT going to change the price of clacks. Instead of maybe getting it for a lower price, you are going to see them at the highest price in [FS].
Again - getting rid of auctions is not the answer, its a cop-out for lacking the ability to come up with a better solution.
The market principles for "rare" items such as CCs don't have to apply to our growing community here. We have the power to enforce it as long as people want this change to occur. You're right, banning auctions isn't an optimal solution, but it's the one I'm willing to settle for. Why? Because how many people here will agree to simply forbid overpricing CCs, especially those right after a CC lottery? Those looking to profit off their fellow members will be the most vocal opponents of such measures.
Perhaps I'm too idealistic. Maybe my ideas aren't realistic since people unknowingly bring their greed and selfishness here from the outside world and refuse to change. I guess I will take it upon myself to make a small change and not sell to those who make immense profits off other members.
Don't forget there are always behind the scenes sales happening as well. So removing legitimate auctions from people isn't an answer.
You could move the entire classifieds, both sale and auction to ebay but everytime something is sold that one of the gh whiners thinks is overpriced they will post a link on gh to the sale and it will be the same story, 8 pages of opinions, *****ing, whining and butthurt.
John
I already tried to explain this but it didn't work. Save your fingers the energy wasted of explaining it.I also held auctions that donated directly to GH.
Honestly - I think there is way too much butthurt here regarding auctions and it has almost 100% to do with Clacks.
Instead of trying to remove auctions, you need to just set rules in place and regulate them. It's really not that hard.
Rules in regards to clacks? What do you have in mind?
Rules set in place for auctions. Such as setting up a formatted way to post an auction. No private bidding, etc.
I don't think private bidding changes anything. If people are allowed to sell novelty keycaps for a massive price hike, they will do it by any means available to them: auction, PM, or even just straight-up demanding $150 in a sale thread. The real issue behind the "butthurt" is the fact that the obnoxious resale prices are allowed. The method which they are sold through really doesn't matter, but auctions seem to be creator of the highest prices.
Market demand drives price. It's the same for any economy. If someone asks 500 for a clack, and nobody buys it - well hey, guess that's not the market price.
Also, auctions with only 100 dollar differentiation between buy it now and reserve are a prime example of people not knowing how to make an auction. A regulation for that difference can be set.
But overall, getting rid of auctions is NOT going to change the price of clacks. Instead of maybe getting it for a lower price, you are going to see them at the highest price in [FS].
Again - getting rid of auctions is not the answer, its a cop-out for lacking the ability to come up with a better solution.
I also held auctions that donated directly to GH.
Honestly - I think there is way too much butthurt here regarding auctions and it has almost 100% to do with Clacks.
Instead of trying to remove auctions, you need to just set rules in place and regulate them. It's really not that hard.
Rules in regards to clacks? What do you have in mind?
Rules set in place for auctions. Such as setting up a formatted way to post an auction. No private bidding, etc.
I don't think private bidding changes anything. If people are allowed to sell novelty keycaps for a massive price hike, they will do it by any means available to them: auction, PM, or even just straight-up demanding $150 in a sale thread. The real issue behind the "butthurt" is the fact that the obnoxious resale prices are allowed. The method which they are sold through really doesn't matter, but auctions seem to be creator of the highest prices.
I don't think private bidding changes anything.
I also held auctions that donated directly to GH.
Honestly - I think there is way too much butthurt here regarding auctions and it has almost 100% to do with Clacks.
Instead of trying to remove auctions, you need to just set rules in place and regulate them. It's really not that hard.
Rules in regards to clacks? What do you have in mind?
Rules set in place for auctions. Such as setting up a formatted way to post an auction. No private bidding, etc.
I don't think private bidding changes anything. If people are allowed to sell novelty keycaps for a massive price hike, they will do it by any means available to them: auction, PM, or even just straight-up demanding $150 in a sale thread. The real issue behind the "butthurt" is the fact that the obnoxious resale prices are allowed. The method which they are sold through really doesn't matter, but auctions seem to be creator of the highest prices.
The reason behind the "butthurt" isn't the "obnoxious" resale prices, it's the people who complain it. People have all the right in the world to sell that which they own for any price a buyer is willing to pay.
-- snip --
So people are butthurt because they complain? Dat logic. For me, it has nothing to do with the physical CC but the greedy principles some of you display.
I'm pretty much done debating here. I've given up the possibility of having members view each other as members instead of a piggy bank. From now on, I will boycott profiteers whenever I sell something. I will flat-out ignore them if they'd like to buy one of my items. I encourage others to do the same.
:eek:
:eek:
this is how he really feelsShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/48Fv4RZ.png)
1 Edit: Re-read that. I am not suggesting, by saying you have no right to complain, that you have no right to free speech or whatever related. The intended idea of it was to say that you have no right to mess with what or how a seller sells an item to a willing buyer.
1 Edit: Re-read that. I am not suggesting, by saying you have no right to complain, that you have no right to free speech or whatever related. The intended idea of it was to say that you have no right to mess with what or how a seller sells an item to a willing buyer.
I have no right? Hah. I certainly have a right and that is why this thread exists. People keep thinking this forum is eBay or liken it to the world market, but it is NOT any of those. If this community agreed to from the start, with the moral guidance from the moderators, to participate in fair buying/selling practices...there wouldn't have been a need for this thread.
Hopefully the admin staff will put on their moral goggles and see what is the right thing to do for the COMMUNITY and not for the INDIVIDUAL SELLER.
the Legend Of The Great Clacks
Man.. Did you really just misinterpret my edit which was aimed at avoiding misinterpretation? The edit (which you quoted) says that I'm NOT saying you don't have a right to your freedom of speech, but that you have no right to interfere with what consenting parties do together.
Also, how exactly do you see any of the sales going on here as unfair? I thought this was clear. When a buyer decides they are willing to pay an amount to a seller for the item they want, there is nothing wrong with that. A sale that takes place without issue and with both parties consenting completely is 100% fair. There is literally nothing unfair about it. The only sales you could call "unfair" would be any time somebody is scammed or cheated in some way.
There's probably also something to be said about counting on the mods/admins for morality, but after having taken multiple university level courses on philosophy of morals and ethics, I can say for certain that that is not something I want to get into here... That stuff is boring as hell.
So all these magical $500 clacks everyone references were they ever actually for sale publicly?
I said that I DO have a right to "mess with what or how a seller sells an item to a willing buyer" because it affects all the other prospective buyers in the community. They're directly affected because they either cannot afford the price or refuse to pay because it is insulting to buy a $25 plastic for up to $500.
I said that I DO have a right to "mess with what or how a seller sells an item to a willing buyer" because it affects all the other prospective buyers in the community. They're directly affected because they either cannot afford the price or refuse to pay because it is insulting to buy a $25 plastic for up to $500.
This is literally 100% wrong. You really don't have any right to interfere with two consenting parties participating in a trade of goods at a mutually accepted cost. You don't. As a outside party to the transaction, you are unaffected in ANY way, and you don't have any right to get in between the parties and interfere. It is NOT the concern of the seller or any other buyers if a particular buyer cannot afford the asking price.
And this one is especially important: you have the right to be insulted, but that DOES NOT give you the right to interfere.
So all these magical $500 clacks everyone references were they ever actually for sale publicly?
I said that I DO have a right to "mess with what or how a seller sells an item to a willing buyer" because it affects all the other prospective buyers in the community. They're directly affected because they either cannot afford the price or refuse to pay because it is insulting to buy a $25 plastic for up to $500.
This is literally 100% wrong. You really don't have any right to interfere with two consenting parties participating in a trade of goods at a mutually accepted cost. You don't. As a outside party to the transaction, you are unaffected in ANY way, and you don't have any right to get in between the parties and interfere. It is NOT the concern of the seller or any other buyers if a particular buyer cannot afford the asking price.
And this one is especially important: you have the right to be insulted, but that DOES NOT give you the right to interfere.
Sorry, but this is a forum and a community -- not some kind of impersonal flea market where anything goes. People with your way of thinking are ruining this place. I, as a member of this community, have just as much right as anyone else on the forum to call someone out for ripping people off.
And others will throw money at it and justify itC'mon demik, almost evrryone here is attempting to help or add something, in some small way, even though they have different views. Personally, every time I post you have replied with a smart ass comment. If you have something to say, say it. If it is personal feel free to pm me. If you think everyone can benefit say it here.
And others will throw money at it and justify it
You advocate so hard for the "community" but really all you are doing is creating toxicity.
I don't see how putting auctions in a subforum would be much of a help. The anger over them spills over into other areas of the forum anyway.
If auctions generate so much unease and anger (looks like they do) just ban them outright. Then the people who want to get the most for their clacks will do it elsewhere. It doesn't matter if any of us feel the anger is justified or not; keeping people happy is valid enough reason. No one here at GH has "rights" -- the owners of the forum can do whatever they want. If the owners ban auctions, or sales, etc. -- they'll still happen somewhere else, so no one's rights are really being trampled. Clacks will still be sold for prices that get some people's panties bunched up; but at least it won't happen here. So, if you've got a big collection, or a rare one you need to sell, you'll still see a return on your investment, it just won't be here.
Ban auctions and be done with it. But, outline what happens when people set them up in ignorance of this new rule; temporary banning, public shaming, whatever -- so long as it is explicitly stated. Also, what to do about ongoing auctions? Should they immediately cease?
I don't see how putting auctions in a subforum would be much of a help. The anger over them spills over into other areas of the forum anyway.
If auctions generate so much unease and anger (looks like they do) just ban them outright. Then the people who want to get the most for their clacks will do it elsewhere. It doesn't matter if any of us feel the anger is justified or not; keeping people happy is valid enough reason. No one here at GH has "rights" -- the owners of the forum can do whatever they want. If the owners ban auctions, or sales, etc. -- they'll still happen somewhere else, so no one's rights are really being trampled. Clacks will still be sold for prices that get some people's panties bunched up; but at least it won't happen here. So, if you've got a big collection, or a rare one you need to sell, you'll still see a return on your investment, it just won't be here.
Ban auctions and be done with it. But, outline what happens when people set them up in ignorance of this new rule; temporary banning, public shaming, whatever -- so long as it is explicitly stated. Also, what to do about ongoing auctions? Should they immediately cease?
Wonder what iMav's thoughts are, is he still the 'owner'?
Wonder what iMav's thoughts are, is he still the 'owner'?
*shrug* No idea. Maybe just end the marketplace altogether, to be on the safe side?
Wonder what iMav's thoughts are, is he still the 'owner'?
*shrug* No idea. Maybe just end the marketplace altogether, to be on the safe side?
There are some who would go for that and be happy with only the handful of people that would be left ::)
Wonder what iMav's thoughts are, is he still the 'owner'?
*shrug* No idea. Maybe just end the marketplace altogether, to be on the safe side?
There are some who would go for that and be happy with only the handful of people that would be left ::)
The market would just go someplace else.
Nobody buys my stuff or sells me anything anyways, I just come here because for the most part I like the place and most of the people :P
I feel like sdafhjakjsdiofunwoeonifncslkcnmklsmnadfoiuwiuerjnkjsfdlas. Your rebuttal?
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/66wAPRL.jpg)
>be future
>CCs mass produced
>no rarity
>no desire
>Who cares about CCs?
>jimmies still not settled
Lots of people want Clacks for their rarity.
Take away the rarity, and they won't want them anymore...
>be future
>CCs mass produced
>no rarity
>no desire
>Who cares about CCs?
>jimmies still not settled
^This. Plus, I doubt CCs will ever be mass produced (hasn't CC himself said that?)
>be future
>CCs mass produced
>no rarity
>no desire
>Who cares about CCs?
>jimmies still not settled
^This. Plus, I doubt CCs will ever be mass produced (hasn't CC himself said that?)
Just wait until the Chinese get a wiff...Feng already has similar skulls with flames that will be up for sale very soon...It definitely won't be the first time there has been a knock-off product produced in China. :cool:
>be future
>CCs mass produced
>no rarity
>no desire
>Who cares about CCs?
>jimmies still not settled
^This. Plus, I doubt CCs will ever be mass produced (hasn't CC himself said that?)
>be future
>CCs mass produced
>no rarity
>no desire
>Who cares about CCs?
>jimmies still not settled
^This. Plus, I doubt CCs will ever be mass produced (hasn't CC himself said that?)
Not enough gnomes.