Post by: intelli78 on Sun, 16 November 2014, 16:22:04
(http://i.imgur.com/fyzLdsC.png)
WHY PRODUCE THE SET
The G8*-3000 Triumph Adler aged teal colorway is one of the most beautiful keycap sets of all time. It’s also one of the rarest keycap sets of all time. Great beauty * great rarity = a very rewarding set to produce for the community. :thumb:
WHY WE CAN PRODUCE IT
There have been a couple false starts for a Triumph Adler GB, because GMK’s MOQ for a custom color was said to be 700+. When I contacted them in November, they said the MOQ was actually 1,000 :confused:. However, GMK’s upper management were willing to halve the MOQ to 500, in exchange for a concession from us — a price premium on each set. Considering that GH is probably not a key customer for GMK, this bargain is as good as we could have hoped for, and I think, an expression of support for the keyboard enthusiast community, straight from the management. So let’s take a minute to say “Thanks” to GMK, because none of this would be at all possible without their willingness to work with GH. :thumb:
ALSO, AS YOU WILL READ SHORTLY, THE PRICE PREMIUM TURNS OUT TO BE PRETTY REASONABLE SPREAD OVER 500 SETS, EACH SET IS THE SAME OR CHEAPER AS PREVIOUS GMK SETS. In fact it makes me wonder if more GMK sets would SUCCEED if we cranked the MOQ to 500 and brought the price way down...
DESIGN PHILOSOPHY
I would say the approach is “compassionate dictatorship” ;) We did our best to accommodate the most common feedback, but Photekq and I also included some features because we personally love them. We also left out a lot of features we see as only “nice-to-haves” vs. "must-haves", because our recent observations of the GB market suggest that large and expensive sets are struggling to make MOQ. This was even more important since we were already working under the constraints of the custom color price premium and 500 MOQ. We subjected every key to considerable scrutiny, and tried to be as economical and efficient as possible. On the other hand, we didn’t go straight to the bare minimum setup (ANSI TKL) because in all likelihood this GB is a one-shot deal, and if the keys aren’t made now, they never will be.
FEATURES
- Custom modifier color, custom alpha base color, and custom legend color. This will be the first-ever GMK GB with custom-mixed, sample-matched colors. COOL!:thumb:
- Full ANSI 104-key coverage. This set will 100% cover your Filco-style tenkeyless or full-size board.
- Full US ISO 105-key coverage. This set will 100% cover your Filco-style ISO tenkeyless or full-size board. The legends will not perfectly match non-US layouts (e.g., UK or DE). But with a R3 \ | and an R4 blank, you’ll have the most language-neutral ISO layout possible while retaining a backslash/pipe key on your keyboard. Inspired by this WEY board: https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3833/12212239544_2bc51d1304_z.jpg
Classic Windows 98 winkeys and menu key.Win7 Since Win98 win/menu are pad-print only, we're doing Win7 instead to keep everything doubleshot. 1x winkeys are blank because there are no doubleshot win/menu legends available for R5.- Classic Cherry legends. These legends are almost a perfect match for old G80-3000 boards. Full “Insert” and “Delete” legends, arrows and nav legends on numpad, icon+text mods, no crazy Originative-style tab, etc. But there are a couple twists. For example, the all-caps 1.5x “CTRL”s and the “PRTSC”, which are found on many of the original TA boards. Also, all three “Enter” keys are text+legend, which is not true to the originals, but it is more consistent. :)
- Full “Control” text on 1.25x mods, and no “Alt Gr” at all. For symmetry, and because people asked for it.
- Left, down, and right arrows, and bottom-row numpad keys are all R5 (A-profile). This means that when you use your set on a winkeyless board with a Tsangan set, you’ll have a FULL-A-PROFILE bottom row, old-school Cherry style. This should please winkeyless users. When you’re on a modern winkey board, you’ll have mixed profiles, but only between the alpha cluster vs. the mod/numpads. Since it requires significant hand movements to switch between these two sections of the board, this should not be a significant bother. Also, there is a precedent for this: AEG Olympia boards, and it looks/works fine https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2946/15301853109_1a0cc99c7a_h.jpg
- 60% symmetry compatibility: includes a teal R2 \ | key. Swap this out for the gray one and use your Esc in place of your ` ~ key. This provides 60% symmetry with half the number of keys - 1 instead of 2. If you normally use ` ~ instead of Esc there… sorry!
- 1.75x shift. This key has high bang-for-buck, because it enables at least 3 layouts: HHKB, MX Mini, and 1800 (on the 1800 you can stick your Fn in for the 0, or a 1x Winkey for a profile match).
- Fn: I wanted to cut this too (60% users with a 1.75x shift and Fn can just use the up arrow instead) but Photekq lobbied for it. I think it’s unnecessary… but since we’ve cut so many other possible keys… it got to stay. If you have HHKB, thank him. Oh well, I guess no set can be perfect ;)
- Extra teal spacebars.
- No extra language side printing, cuz ain’t nobody got time fer dat!
All Teal legends,Blue alpha legends because it's truer to the original and looks better.
The set is not subject to further changes.
PRICE / MOQ
-We've narrowed this down to
1. We try to have Massdrop run it (I have not contacted them about this so this is all hypothetical, but I would not compromise on the terms explained here). There will be no changes to layout. Massdrop will do a drop, collect the money, and pay GMK. GMK will ship Massdrop sets presorted in
Pros = Easiest way to reach MOQ, they reach a LOT of people with their mailing list. Cheap! I don’t have to ship 100s of sets. YAY!
Cons = ?? A lot of people hate them because of the Granite set. But the circumstances here are totally different, they won’t be sorting or designing anything, just shipping packages to their final destination, which is their bread & butter, I don't think there would be a major chance for error.
2. We do a traditional GB. We try to run up to 500 sets with GH, Deskthority, and Reddit, and some hefty 100+ bulk orders from our Korean, Vietnamese, and Chinese friends (and other friends too, no discrimination intended)
Pros = Lowest possible price, avoids the potential complications of involving a third party.
Cons = It’s already hard enough to get to just 250 (tho the price would be highly attractive...). I have to ship up to 500 packages, FML! :confused: It could take months to get to MOQ, if it happens at all.
Estimated price: $100 + actual shipping
GOING FORWARD
All done, GB starting 3/24/15 :thumb:
SPECIAL CONSIDERATION: The EUR—USD exchange rate is very favorable to the dollar right now, at a 5-year high, as well as a high for the last 90 days. Now is a better-than-ever time to order from GMK.
Original TA eye candy
(http://i.imgur.com/aIGEp4p.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/xdytuUb.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/pxUPPdt.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/o7qtEPj.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/XBFBXA5.jpg)
Post by: Photekq on Sun, 16 November 2014, 16:24:18
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sun, 16 November 2014, 16:25:28
Post by: pasph on Sun, 16 November 2014, 16:25:36
Post by: MythicalWagyu on Sun, 16 November 2014, 16:28:20
Post by: yicaoyimu on Sun, 16 November 2014, 16:33:40
(http://i.imgur.com/iNRp2O4.jpg)
Note the edge of the back of the cap and the difference in color.
Post by: Rotaku on Sun, 16 November 2014, 16:37:45
Post by: intelli78 on Sun, 16 November 2014, 16:38:44
There has been some discussion on EC and the conclusion there is that the teal color is the effect of yellowing. It's easier to tell by looking at the flip side of caps.
Yea, as others have said it would likely be a custom color. I couldn't say what that entails in terms of cost and MOQ right now, but I say we gauge interest before dooming the effort. Maybe it will prove to be an insurmountable barrier... but maybe it won't :)
Post by: yicaoyimu on Sun, 16 November 2014, 16:40:48
There has been some discussion on EC and the conclusion there is that the teal color is the effect of yellowing. It's easier to tell by looking at the flip side of caps.
Yea, as others have said it would likely be a custom color. I couldn't say what that entails in terms of cost and MOQ right now, but I say we gauge interest before dooming the effort. Maybe it will prove to be an insurmountable barrier... but maybe it won't :)
I heard that MOQ is 700 for custom colors. But yeah, it never hurts to see how much interest is out there.
Post by: exitfire401 on Sun, 16 November 2014, 17:07:45
Post by: Elocutive on Sun, 16 November 2014, 17:08:34
Post by: intelli78 on Sun, 16 November 2014, 17:09:37
Definitely interested. It's the perfect set for the silenced realforce with NoveTouch sliders I'll be working on soon.
Sounds great, except for that damn right shift and enter clacking. I need to get some materials and try to figure out how to stop that so I can put GMK on my Novatouch without driving myself nuts.
Post by: FrostyToast on Sun, 16 November 2014, 17:23:33
Post by: feizor on Sun, 16 November 2014, 17:56:05
Post by: Joey Quinn on Sun, 16 November 2014, 18:24:16
Post by: exitfire401 on Sun, 16 November 2014, 18:28:28
Definitely interested. It's the perfect set for the silenced realforce with NoveTouch sliders I'll be working on soon.
Sounds great, except for that damn right shift and enter clacking. I need to get some materials and try to figure out how to stop that so I can put GMK on my Novatouch without driving myself nuts.
Thinking I'm gonna try cutting/fitting and hot gluing a soft landing pad to take care of it. Doesn't really bother me from what I've experienced from it so far though.
Post by: Den441 on Sun, 16 November 2014, 19:28:08
Vintage Colorway
This would be the all-out, high MOQ, GMK Custom Color option. It would look like the pics we have all seen of the aged doubleshots on the TA 286 by using a custom teal. I think this is the set most TA fans want, but a GB with a GMK custom color has not been done iirc, so I do not know if it can be successful.
Original Colorway
As you can see from the pic in yicaoyimu's post, the original TA colors were closer to what most people here would consider a "grey and blue olivetti" type of colorway. The colors can also be seen on most TA typewritter caps. This set would use existing GMK colors like N5 for the blue on the mods and V4 for the alpha legends. I doubt many would try to artificially age them to get the teal color, but this colorway would be very close to how the TA 286 caps ORIGINALLY looked. Maybe someone could try dipping a N5 blue enter key from elitekeyboards in brown dye or coffee/tea and see if it turns teal lol. I know that works for aging plastic guitar pickguards and knobs. If there was an easy way to get the vintage look on these, it might be a better option.
SP
You could also do a custom color run with SP. If you could get them to do the sculpted F and J keys and use TA legends, this may be an option. The keys would not have the high quality GMK feel, but I think you could replicate the look with some work.
In any case, you can count me in.
Post by: redeye on Sun, 16 November 2014, 19:37:06
Definitely interested. It's the perfect set for the silenced realforce with NoveTouch sliders I'll be working on soon.
Sounds great, except for that damn right shift and enter clacking. I need to get some materials and try to figure out how to stop that so I can put GMK on my Novatouch without driving myself nuts.
I'm getting this with my novatouch too, I'm going to try using this:
Frost Liquid Wrap Matt Rubber Coating Dip Aerosol - But i'm not sure where i'm going to spary it. I'm thinking under the cap or on the plate where it hits the back of the cap? Any thoughts?
Sorry, I should have pm'ed this.
Post by: phearboner on Sun, 16 November 2014, 19:53:53
Post by: Joey Quinn on Sun, 16 November 2014, 20:38:04
I have wanted this to happen for a long time! I think I mentioned something about it to you in your WTB thread intelli78. :) However, there are a lot of GBs happening now, so I think to ensure success, we would want to wait a little while for peoples wallets to recover. Maybe it could happen sometime next year. I think there are a few ways to handle this set as I touched on before in intelli's WTB thread.
Vintage Colorway
This would be the all-out, high MOQ, GMK Custom Color option. It would look like the pics we have all seen of the aged doubleshots on the TA 286 by using a custom teal. I think this is the set most TA fans want, but a GB with a GMK custom color has not been done iirc, so I do not know if it can be successful.
Original Colorway
As you can see from the pic in yicaoyimu's post, the original TA colors were closer to what most people here would consider a "grey and blue olivetti" type of colorway. The colors can also be seen on most TA typewritter caps. This set would use existing GMK colors like N5 for the blue on the mods and V4 for the alpha legends. I doubt many would try to artificially age them to get the teal color, but this colorway would be very close to how the TA 286 caps ORIGINALLY looked. Maybe someone could try dipping a N5 blue enter key from elitekeyboards in brown dye or coffee/tea and see if it turns teal lol. I know that works for aging plastic guitar pickguards and knobs. If there was an easy way to get the vintage look on these, it might be a better option.
SP
You could also do a custom color run with SP. If you could get them to do the sculpted F and J keys and use TA legends, this may be an option. The keys would not have the high quality GMK feel, but I think you could replicate the look with some work.
In any case, you can count me in.
The first option is obviously the best but I like the idea of trying to age the caps ourselves. This summer or next year is IMO the best timeline if we want to reach the MOQ.
Post by: FrostyToast on Sun, 16 November 2014, 20:38:58
Post by: geniekid on Sun, 16 November 2014, 21:17:27
Probably won't hit MOQ without a lot of vendor support but I'd buy a couple of sets.
Post by: bueller on Sun, 16 November 2014, 21:33:22
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 16 November 2014, 21:35:36
Unfortunately I think this set is a pipe dream. Ageing caps manually to get to that stage would take AGES and it's not even 100% certain whether the plastic will yellow the same as it used to. The reason most vintage computers have all yellowed is due to a fire retardant that they used to put in the plastic but I don't believe they use it any more.
I suppose you could accelerate it by placing them under a UV light, but yeah, it wouldn't be easy to get that color.
And yes, Bromine really isn't present in plastic like it used to be.
Post by: bueller on Sun, 16 November 2014, 21:36:55
Unfortunately I think this set is a pipe dream. Ageing caps manually to get to that stage would take AGES and it's not even 100% certain whether the plastic will yellow the same as it used to. The reason most vintage computers have all yellowed is due to a fire retardant that they used to put in the plastic but I don't believe they use it any more.
I suppose you could accelerate it by placing them under a UV light, but yeah, it wouldn't be easy to get that color.
And yes, Bromine really isn't present in plastic like it used to be.
Bromine! That's what it was called, I typed Bromide into Google and couldn't figure it out haha
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 16 November 2014, 21:42:12
On topic, maybe we could look at Devlin doing a set? I know it's not GMK, but it's better than SP and they may actually do it now that QWERKeys is out of the equation. The only reason I didn't try and do some of the typewriter sets through them instead of SP is that I would have had to deal with QWERKeys and the UV GB was a bit of a cluster**** because of dealing with them.
Post by: jonathanyu on Sun, 16 November 2014, 21:54:07
Post by: intelli78 on Sun, 16 November 2014, 22:04:05
Also I can't really see doing it in any profile other than Cherry. If not GMK, maybe
(http://i.imgur.com/PmJoVoN.png)
This is a set that deserves to be made correctly, or not at all.
Post by: slickmamba on Sun, 16 November 2014, 22:29:21
Post by: FrostyToast on Sun, 16 November 2014, 22:46:44
Post by: geniekid on Sun, 16 November 2014, 23:09:26
If not GMK, maybe Imsto PBT?
I think IMSTO only does dyesub so you can't get the white on teal. It might be possible to make something like the Triumph Adler Royal Alpha (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36189.msg875834#msg875834) dyesubs with teal on grey and a couple of tasteful light green legends and maybe even a handful of fun white-on-teal or white-on-green doubleshots from GMK. I don't know if BSP+IMSTO would be any cheaper but the MOQ might be lower.
Post by: intelli78 on Sun, 16 November 2014, 23:51:30
Ah yeah, you're exactly right about the dyesub, what am I thinking.If not GMK, maybe Imsto PBT?
I think IMSTO only does dyesub so you can't get the white on teal. It might be possible to make something like the Triumph Adler Royal Alpha (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36189.msg875834#msg875834) dyesubs with teal on grey and a couple of tasteful light green legends and maybe even a handful of fun white-on-teal or white-on-green doubleshots from GMK. I don't know if BSP+IMSTO would be any cheaper but the MOQ might be lower.
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 16 November 2014, 23:57:15
If not GMK, maybe Imsto PBT?
I think IMSTO only does dyesub so you can't get the white on teal. It might be possible to make something like the Triumph Adler Royal Alpha (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36189.msg875834#msg875834) dyesubs with teal on grey and a couple of tasteful light green legends and maybe even a handful of fun white-on-teal or white-on-green doubleshots from GMK. I don't know if BSP+IMSTO would be any cheaper but the MOQ might be lower.
BSP wouldn't get you 1.25x, mods though, only 1.5x. There are others out there that would be better to better serve more people.
Post by: LechnerDE on Mon, 17 November 2014, 00:49:25
Then again this will probably be impossible to get. Custom Color MOQ is just too damn high...
Post by: intelli78 on Mon, 17 November 2014, 01:09:59
Post by: Heliosphere on Mon, 17 November 2014, 03:17:41
Post by: mz/x on Mon, 17 November 2014, 03:41:34
Post by: Delete on Mon, 17 November 2014, 23:30:02
Post by: Karura on Mon, 17 November 2014, 23:34:19
1) GMK does not have a colour that matches the shade of green/teal.
2) This is very similar to Feng's Cyan GB.
Not dissuading you, but it might be difficult to run, a custom colour would yield a very high MOQ, something to consider.
Post by: whentheclouds on Mon, 17 November 2014, 23:40:56
p.s. yes it's similar to Feng's Cyan set, save for that small difference of this set being superior in every conceivable way
Post by: taylordcraig on Mon, 17 November 2014, 23:45:17
#GMKIC #MOQ #HERESAY
Post by: margo baggins on Tue, 18 November 2014, 05:44:02
I will just keep collecting TA dyesub sets :D
Post by: Mandolin on Tue, 18 November 2014, 06:00:39
Done in big industrial tanks.
We need a chemist/engineer opinion for factibility and costs quote.
Post by: intelli78 on Tue, 18 November 2014, 06:05:39
Quote
Individual colors are definitely possible but require a MOQ of 1,000 full sets.
I am trying to get lower MOQs for the granulate from our distributors but it´s quite hard so we have to deal with the 1,000 sets MOQ for now.
Brainstorming options:
- Negotiate back w/ them to lower MOQ as much as possible, and try to get significant vendor/overseas support. If we can get MOQ down to 700, GH could buy 300, Koreans 100-200, and vendors the rest. Very difficult but not impossible.
- Learn more about the granulate required and maybe talk to distributors directly about how we can lower the cost for this buy (probably not going to get us anywhere, but just throwing the idea out)
- Convince them the teal needs to become a standard color (chance = low)
- Use SP or maybe Devlin (I don't even consider this a real option, these would just be a teal set, not a TA replica)
- Only do teal modifiers to reduce cost and make it easier to fill MOQ, while also negotiating MOQ down? (would be a damn shame not to make the entire set, though...)
- Chemistry to turn blue into teal without damaging the plastic/making it brittle (as I've said, seems reallllly impractical, I think this would end up being a bigger mess than just figuring how to how get to the MOQ)
- Give up?
I feel that if man can put a probe on a comet, we can make this keycap replica set happen. I think that the first option is the most realistic... it's just going to take a very piecemeal approach to filling the MOQ and it will require a lot of buy-in and support. Hard, yes... but impossible... no, I don't think so.
Constructive ideas?
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 18 November 2014, 06:25:03
- Negotiate back w/ them to lower MOQ as much as possible, and try to get significant vendor/overseas support. If we can get MOQ down to 700, GH could buy 300, Koreans 100-200, and vendors the rest. Very difficult but not impossible.If you want to make this happen, I think you should focus on this.
Post by: margo baggins on Tue, 18 November 2014, 06:30:44
I approached them fairly recently and got told they would only work with qwer.io. Though, now qwer.io has stopped trading maybe that will have changed.
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 18 November 2014, 08:59:46
FWIW - Devlin don't seem to like working with people.
I approached them fairly recently and got told they would only work with qwer.io. Though, now qwer.io has stopped trading maybe that will have changed.
Yeah, I mentioned the same thing earlier. Their caps are better than SPs, but they see to have an even higher MOQ than GMK.
Post by: margo baggins on Tue, 18 November 2014, 09:22:35
FWIW - Devlin don't seem to like working with people.
I approached them fairly recently and got told they would only work with qwer.io. Though, now qwer.io has stopped trading maybe that will have changed.
Yeah, I mentioned the same thing earlier. Their caps are better than SPs, but they see to have an even higher MOQ than GMK.
Is it? I was under the impression their moq wasn't that high - certainly higher than SP, but I thought less than GMK.
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 18 November 2014, 09:26:52
Post by: margo baggins on Tue, 18 November 2014, 09:30:39
According to QWER, their MOQ was like 500. I've tried multiple times to get an answer out of Devlin, but they've never been forthcoming, so I have to believe QWER's statement.
But similarly, I have a hard time believing QWER ordered 500 of anything, without being disrespectful,and based on absolutely nothing except my own "feelings" I can't see them having ordered 500 anything's.
And - on top of that, you used to be able to order one offs - which I'm fairly certain are Devlin caps, I have an F-Row here in front of me, Thick Orange caps, with engraved and infilled legends. I don't think anyone else has a set of these and I'm fairly sure they came from Devlin.
Post by: Joey Quinn on Tue, 18 November 2014, 15:35:01
- Negotiate back w/ them to lower MOQ as much as possible, and try to get significant vendor/overseas support. If we can get MOQ down to 700, GH could buy 300, Koreans 100-200, and vendors the rest. Very difficult but not impossible.
I really want this set to be made so if we can't hit MOQ I'll kick in extra money for more sets, not sure how anyone else feels about this.
Post by: intelli78 on Tue, 18 November 2014, 15:58:24
Then, I want to get some preliminary renders from them. In terms of key selection, I will probably duplicate what Ivan did in the Dolch GB just as a point of reference.
I want people to see the renders, which I think will drum up more excitement.
Then, we'll take it from there and reach out to Korean forums, DT, vendors and possibly Massdrop -- they might be able to play a big role in reaching buyers.
Post by: LechnerDE on Tue, 18 November 2014, 16:02:18
After sleeping on it, I think we should go with the first option. Let me ask them about the 700 number and see how much we can drop down the MOQ.
Then, I want to get some preliminary renders from them. In terms of key selection, I will probably duplicate what Ivan did in the Dolch GB just as a point of reference.
I want people to see the renders, which I think will drum up more excitement.
Then, we'll take it from there and reach out to Korean forums, DT, vendors and possibly Massdrop -- they might be able to play a big role in reaching buyers.
If you go with Ivan's key selection please add "`~" and "\|" keys in both colors so people can chose between classic and symmetrical look.
And just for the record: I'd also prefer ANSI icon + text legends and not only icons :)
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 18 November 2014, 16:03:38
After sleeping on it, I think we should go with the first option. Let me ask them about the 700 number and see how much we can drop down the MOQ.
Then, I want to get some preliminary renders from them. In terms of key selection, I will probably duplicate what Ivan did in the Dolch GB just as a point of reference.
I want people to see the renders, which I think will drum up more excitement.
Then, we'll take it from there and reach out to Korean forums, DT, vendors and possibly Massdrop -- they might be able to play a big role in reaching buyers.
This sounds sensible. Good luck! Keep us posted!
Add an A-profile bottom row and exact 3000HAU legends and I'd love you forever :-*
Post by: intelli78 on Tue, 18 November 2014, 16:04:57
I will talk to GMK about how to best duplicate the color, since we'll be going off of images on a computer screen (unless someone is willing/able to lend a TA keycap)
Post by: Den441 on Tue, 18 November 2014, 17:28:08
We can definitely have that conversation later... For now I just want to get something tangible so people can see how awesome the set will look.
I will talk to GMK about how to best duplicate the color, since we'll be going off of images on a computer screen (unless someone is willing/able to lend a TA keycap)
Yeah I think you should go with the 700 approach too. Higher cost maybe? I don't know how others feel about that, but I would be willing to pay a little more for a set if that helped it get made. If you can get it past that point, I think an interest check form would go well with the mockups to gauge interest and help decide other features of the set. The blue used on the alphas was darker on the original TA sets. You may be able to use just one custom teal though to get the look down. Two custom colors is probably out of the question anyway.
Post by: whentheclouds on Tue, 18 November 2014, 19:30:58
If you go with Ivan's key selection please add "`~" and "\|" keys in both colors so people can chose between classic and symmetrical look.glad to see you tirelessly fighting the good fight :D i too would cancel any other potential GMK purchase to buy more than one TA set if it helps reach MOQ. if i ever wanted to, reselling/trading them would be simple enough (like how a bunch of people were late to Ivan's Dolch GB)
And just for the record: I'd also prefer ANSI icon + text legends and not only icons :)
Post by: Cherry1990 on Wed, 19 November 2014, 06:10:58
I am interested in the original colours set, very nice. This one seems compatible with Cherry G80-3000 anche I have a lot of them...Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/aIGEp4p.jpg)
PBT only, of course, for me. :(
Post by: FrostyToast on Wed, 19 November 2014, 06:44:46
I am interested in the original colours set, very nice. This one seems compatible with Cherry G80-3000 anche I have a lot of them...Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/aIGEp4p.jpg)
PBT only, of course, for me. :(
Well this set is probably going to be in abs only since that's the only way to get white on teal legends.
I seriously don't get why people swear by PBT. Gmk is amazing.
Post by: Findecanor on Wed, 19 November 2014, 08:57:04
Could we get a cheaper set of gmk mods only?I would also like only a modifier pack, but with a ISO Return key. This is to be used for when/if I get hold of a set from a typewriter with my national layout.
I suppose that, like in most other groups buys, that the alphanumeric keys are most likely to be offered only in US-ANSI layout.
Post by: pasph on Wed, 19 November 2014, 11:06:43
Post by: cjhard on Wed, 19 November 2014, 17:03:18
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Wed, 19 November 2014, 18:19:31
Kind of a bad photo, but I can't find a better one of what it's really supposed to look like at the moment
(http://www.bbs-aschersleben.de/about/images/dario286.jpg)
Post by: cjhard on Wed, 19 November 2014, 18:45:13
Post by: Elocutive on Wed, 19 November 2014, 18:52:50
Post by: FrostyToast on Wed, 19 November 2014, 18:55:00
If ran a mod only pack you have a legitimate chance of hitting the MOQ for this.
I like this idea. I really only care about having the coloured caps since blue on grey keys could easily work for the others.
Post by: Rainbow_ on Wed, 19 November 2014, 19:25:23
oh wait I'm broke
Post by: intelli78 on Wed, 19 November 2014, 19:34:59
Post by: Elocutive on Wed, 19 November 2014, 19:47:41
Although it would be a damn shame not to produce teal-on-gray alphas at the same time, I would at least be open to considering a teal mod pack, better to have that than nothing at all. However, there can be no compromise on using blue. The teal is, existentially, what would make it a TA replica. The original color of the TA caps isn't relevant as far as I am concerned... there is already an Olivetti IC, and there is Raindrop... blue sets already exist.I only came up with the idea as brainstorming to get this to actually happen. I want the alphas just as bad as you :))
Post by: intelli78 on Wed, 19 November 2014, 19:50:12
Right now the most helpful discussion would be re: how to meet a high MOQ. There is no point in debating the legends at this point, and not to be a ****, but sacrificing the teal just isn't going to happen. As I have stated, a blue colorway would be a totally different GB.
Post by: Joey Quinn on Wed, 19 November 2014, 19:53:41
Post by: jonathanyu on Wed, 19 November 2014, 20:44:54
Although it would be a damn shame not to produce teal-on-gray alphas at the same time, I would at least be open to considering a teal mod pack, better to have that than nothing at all. However, there can be no compromise on using blue. The teal is, existentially, what would make it a TA replica. The original color of the TA caps isn't relevant as far as I am concerned... there is already an Olivetti IC, and there is Raindrop... blue sets already exist.
I am totally agree with this. If running a blue mods, it would just become a raindrop mods..
Post by: Jokrik on Thu, 20 November 2014, 07:02:02
as long as there is a support for 1800 layout... (1x "0", 1x "+", 1x "-")
Post by: LechnerDE on Thu, 20 November 2014, 07:46:56
If you go with Ivan's key selection please add "`~" and "\|" keys in both colors so people can chose between classic and symmetrical look.glad to see you tirelessly fighting the good fight :D i too would cancel any other potential GMK purchase to buy more than one TA set if it helps reach MOQ. if i ever wanted to, reselling/trading them would be simple enough (like how a bunch of people were late to Ivan's Dolch GB)
And just for the record: I'd also prefer ANSI icon + text legends and not only icons :)
Haha, yeah I post this in every god damn GMK IC. I think this is a reasonable wish and adding two simple keys wouldn't cost a fortune.
On Topic:
I'll definitely buy 2 extra sets to help MOQ if needed. I'd also be okay with a teal Mod only set that includes all neccessary Mod keys for fullsize ANSI / ISO boards.
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 20 November 2014, 15:19:09
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ ANSI MODS OR RIOT ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ
Post by: Joey Quinn on Mon, 01 December 2014, 11:56:26
Post by: renne on Mon, 01 December 2014, 18:15:28
Any update? I don't want this idea to die :'(+1
Post by: intelli78 on Mon, 01 December 2014, 18:16:09
Post by: Joey Quinn on Tue, 02 December 2014, 00:51:51
Post by: cooldiscretion on Thu, 04 December 2014, 01:15:38
Post by: tobias on Wed, 10 December 2014, 11:47:41
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 11 December 2014, 14:44:34
Post by: Joey Quinn on Thu, 11 December 2014, 15:07:01
Post by: Heliosphere on Fri, 12 December 2014, 01:42:28
Definitely try a lower MOQ. How much can we expect it to cost roughly? Something like the Dolch ~$150?
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 12 December 2014, 03:16:24
Price will of course depend on the premium, whatever that is, and the layout. there will be people advocating for adding all sorts of keys, as you know, and every one will increase the price. broadly we will have to choose something on the spectrum between a minimal, low price set of ANSI TKL only, and a full set with a huge mod pack. Where we come down will affect the price significantly, but will try to be as accommodating as possible by splitting it into a base and mod pack, and maybe a number pack too.
Another thing-- ideally we need an original yellowed (teal) cap to send them for color matching. If anyone has one, please PM me, I am also contacting some people whom I know to own the board. If no one is willing to lend a cap, we'll likely need to order some color chips or a Capsure device to read the color.
I'm out of the woods with my work project, so I'm free to put more time into this...expect more news soon...and hopefully some initial mockups.
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 12 December 2014, 04:18:16
Post by: LechnerDE on Fri, 12 December 2014, 04:42:15
Ideally I'd prefer a well rounded set like Ivan did in his Dolch GB with full ISO Support and everything.
Looking at the MOQ and the premium price though, I think this won't work.
Therefore I think it's best to focus on a simple ANSI 104 fullsize set including a Tsangan kit - not more not less :thumb:
Post by: renne on Fri, 12 December 2014, 05:22:31
Thats great news Intelli!Agree! 104 full size + tsangan + iso + 1.75 shift = good for everyone.
Ideally I'd prefer a well rounded set like Ivan did in his Dolch GB with full ISO Support and everything.
Looking at the MOQ and the premium price though, I think this won't work.
Therefore I think it's best to focus on a simple ANSI 104 fullsize set including a Tsangan kit - not more not less :thumb:
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 12 December 2014, 06:10:57
simple ANSI 104 fullsize set including a Tsangan kit - not more not less :thumb:
Agree!
+ iso + 1.75 shift
ahaha, so it begins :p
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 12 December 2014, 06:28:28
Thats great news Intelli!Agree! 104 full size + tsangan + iso + 1.75 shift = good for the people it's good for and useless for everyone else
Ideally I'd prefer a well rounded set like Ivan did in his Dolch GB with full ISO Support and everything.
Looking at the MOQ and the premium price though, I think this won't work.
Therefore I think it's best to focus on a simple ANSI 104 fullsize set including a Tsangan kit - not more not less :thumb:
FTFY
Post by: geniekid on Fri, 12 December 2014, 08:37:19
Post by: Heliosphere on Fri, 12 December 2014, 13:34:01
Post by: Rainbow_ on Sun, 14 December 2014, 15:48:46
Post by: Joey Quinn on Sun, 14 December 2014, 16:04:32
I vote we have the same set of keys that the Dolch GMK buy had, being ISO, Tsangan, and a 104 ANSI set.
I second this
Post by: intelli78 on Tue, 16 December 2014, 07:44:18
Right now I asked them to approximate the teal color for the modifiers based off a HEX code I provided, but for the final product, they will need at least one sample keycap. They promise to return it in undamaged condition. Does anyone have one of these boards? We need your help. May be able to get away with a teal cap from one of the other more common TA boards if needed.
Will keep you guys posted.
Post by: intelli78 on Mon, 29 December 2014, 07:45:22
Post by: LechnerDE on Mon, 29 December 2014, 11:18:04
Quick update: I have an initial mockup but I have some changes to make. Should be able to post something in the next week or so.
Thanks for the update :thumb:
I really, really hope this GB will make it!!
Post by: renne on Mon, 29 December 2014, 16:43:33
Quick update: I have an initial mockup but I have some changes to make. Should be able to post something in the next week or so.good to know. thank you.
Post by: mrdar206 on Thu, 01 January 2015, 01:07:54
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/p417x417/10898246_938044636207045_7483374498807847937_n.jpg?oh=24f9082e375988299c47e9f736dee5f3&oe=5527D851&__gda__=1425767351_a7f7256f5880e9c453b51c7cdafb7809)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t31.0-8/1654524_938044659540376_3801046717110681024_o.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t31.0-8/10872994_938044729540369_1080211083567742544_o.jpg)
(https://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/10872873_938044762873699_712920094206890422_o.jpg)
Post by: intelli78 on Mon, 05 January 2015, 11:06:19
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 08 January 2015, 11:53:35
NOTE: The teal is an approximation only, they will COLOR MATCH a real cap for us. PM me if you can help with that. You'll get it back.
Also, I chose blue legends for the alphas because that's how they appear to have aged -- less yellowed than the mods. But we could also do all teal -- here's a quick Photoshop job I did to show the difference: http://i.imgur.com/5rDuidj.png Any thoughts on this?
(http://i.imgur.com/0PBaEWY.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/aIGEp4p.jpg)
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 08 January 2015, 11:57:58
(http://i.imgur.com/LDs4wQI.png)
Post by: LechnerDE on Thu, 08 January 2015, 12:02:04
I know you said no more changes, but there is one thing I have to post in every IC (and I also did in this one already :D):
Please consider including the "`~" and "\|" keys in both colors, so people can chose between classic and symmetrical look.
I strongly prefer the symmetrical look especially on 60% boards!
Edit:
Another thing
The original set had arrows and "pg up" etc on the numpad keys. I think we should go for the original approach!
Post by: whentheclouds on Thu, 08 January 2015, 12:09:42
also, is there a chance for us to order a color matching spacebar, or do you think the 500 MOQ is too high as well?
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 08 January 2015, 12:10:37
I know you said no more changes, but there is one thing I have to post in every IC (and I also did in this one already :D):
Please consider including the "`~" and "\|" keys in both colors, so people can chose between classic and symmetrical look.
I strongly prefer the symmetrical look especially on 60% boards!
This times ‡. The people who want the option for symmetry make up a larger portion of the population than the small number for whom so many other random keys are added. Please add a pair of symmetry keys. It's cheap and a minor addition that will make a ton of people happy.
Post by: geniekid on Thu, 08 January 2015, 12:15:18
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 08 January 2015, 12:18:20
Anybody else in favor of symmetrical keys, speak up.
I am down to copy the old numpad legends. I'm also fine with CTRL instead of Control. It doesn't cost anything to change legends. The only thing i am personally against is icon-only mods, despite the fact that most of the original TA boards had them. In this case I think the modern versions are better. But again, I will compromise if majority demands it.
Re: HHKB support... yeah, I would like it too but it's a lot of keys and like you said it's just not that popular. We can maybe do it as a sub-set, but I bet you it'll die at 20-30 orders. :(
Speak up if you have strong feelings on any of these subjects...
Post by: CommonCurt on Thu, 08 January 2015, 12:24:00
I would also like to see the navigation on the numpad, and would it be possible to get * and / on the numpad?
Also I prefer control cover ctrl.
Post by: billnye on Thu, 08 January 2015, 12:25:09
I hope this makes moq! I would love to see more custom color GMK sets in the future.
Post by: LechnerDE on Thu, 08 January 2015, 12:29:30
Can you include another r4 "alt" cap? I prefer the symmetry.
I hope this makes moq! I would love to see more custom color GMK sets in the future.
I think it's better to just drop the "alt gr" key and replace it with a simple "alt" key.
Isn't that an ISO thing anyway? And as an ISO user myself I don't care whether my right alt key says "gr" because half of the legends are wrong anyway for my language.
Post by: billnye on Thu, 08 January 2015, 12:33:40
Yes it's an ISO thing. Ivan has used it on ANSI sets in the past, so that may be why it is here as well.Can you include another r4 "alt" cap? I prefer the symmetry.
I hope this makes moq! I would love to see more custom color GMK sets in the future.
I think it's better to just drop the "alt gr" key and replace it with a simple "alt" key.
Isn't that an ISO thing anyway? And as an ISO user myself I don't care whether my right alt key says "gr" because half of the legends are wrong anyway for my language.
Post by: whentheclouds on Thu, 08 January 2015, 12:37:55
Post by: Elocutive on Thu, 08 January 2015, 12:41:30
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 08 January 2015, 12:44:06
how about those color matching spacebars? i'm sure plenty of people would jump at the chance to pick up custom colored spacebar - i'd get at least 3 myself. lastly, about the color of the alpha legends, i find blue much more appealing thanks to the stronger contrast against the grey background. or maybe it's the photoshop, i can't tell :P
Interesting idea about the spacebars, probably no harm done by offering it as a sub-set, and possibly that could even help reduce the price of the base kit by using up extra granulate. Will check into that...
Thanks for feedback on the blue legends... I am a little iffy about how they appear on the render, but IRL they should be much darker as shown in the color chips and I think the result will be nicer and more interesting than pure teal.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 08 January 2015, 12:46:16
Also, as much as I don't personally care about symmetry, if it helps us get to MOQ we need to do it. This isn't a matter of adding a few dollars to the kit or not adding a few dollars to the kit. It's a question of adding a few dollars to the kit or not having a kit at all. I support this set and want to see it get produced. :thumb:
Post by: LechnerDE on Thu, 08 January 2015, 12:53:29
Dunno, it's really hard to judge by the mockup. This is the set you have to see in real life first, but I am willing to take that gamble :p
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 08 January 2015, 13:05:12
Post by: tjweir on Thu, 08 January 2015, 13:24:55
I hope to have the funds when the GB kicks off.
Post by: FrostyToast on Thu, 08 January 2015, 13:36:34
It would make the OCD folks happy, plus the colored spacebars mixed in would greatly boost the orders for the pack to ensure we reach MOQ.
Post by: geniekid on Thu, 08 January 2015, 13:57:02
Re: HHKB support... yeah, I would like it too but it's a lot of keys and like you said it's just not that popular. We can maybe do it as a sub-set, but I bet you it'll die at 20-30 orders. :(
If it's not too much trouble I would like to see HHKB support offered as a separate set. If kept to the three keys I mentioned above a lot of people might jump on it just for the R3 control. It will still likely not make MOQ but I think there's real value to measuring how much interest really exists.
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 08 January 2015, 14:13:46
-Numpad legends changed to standard ANSI legends. See G80-3000HAU.
-Remove text from ISO enter, just keep the arrow.
-Remove text from ISO 1.25u left shift, just keep the arrow.
-Add second alt keys, or change the alt gr.
-This one is quite big, and I don't think it's really viable, but I'll suggest it anyway. Remove the UK ISO side legends, and instead print a set of specific UK ISO keys, or even just keep it to US ISO which only requires 1 or 2 extra keys.
The above things are me just being picky. Here are the two things that would decide whether or not I buy the set..
-Ins/Del legends changed to Insert/Delete
-Add an entire A-profile bottom row [instead of the existing B-profile tsangan keys if necessary to keep cost low] - 1.5/1/1.5/7/1.5/1/1.5 + arrows bottom row + numpad bottom row. If this were any other set, it wouldn't decide whether or not I buy. But for TA... for me, it's essential. This set is so retro, and along with beige it's the most classic Cherry set. I think that without A-profile you can't have true classic Cherry.
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 08 January 2015, 14:29:50
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 08 January 2015, 14:32:41
(http://i.imgur.com/5rDuidj.png)
I *think* IRL it will look good with the blue and it'll be a much more subtle contrast than it looks in the render. It's a dark blue, V4 here: http://i.imgur.com/LDs4wQI.png
Can't be sure though. Teal would be safer. Thoughts?
Post by: CommonCurt on Thu, 08 January 2015, 14:42:00
Will these be the same shade of teal as the set Feng's GB?
Does GMK only have one shade of teal?
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 08 January 2015, 14:50:13
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 08 January 2015, 14:59:46
I like the blue legends, but would be happy with teal also.
Will these be the same shade of teal as the set Feng's GB?
Does GMK only have one shade of teal?
NO it will not be the same. This will be a custom color, ideally matched to an authentic TA cap. It will be the first ever GMK GB with a custom color.
Feng's GB, to the best of my knowledge, uses the same color that was in Ivan's Dolch GB, which is much brighter IRL than in the renders. (And yes, this is the only teal-like color they have) The custom teal will be much darker; just as it appears in the TA board photos in this thread.
This:
(http://i.imgur.com/48IC8kU.jpg)
vs this:
(http://i.imgur.com/pxUPPdt.jpg)
Post by: inlikeflynn on Thu, 08 January 2015, 15:33:26
Would like to get more input on teal legends vs. the blue shown in OP...
(http://i.imgur.com/5rDuidj.png) (http://i.imgur.com/5rDuidj.png)
I *think* IRL it will look good with the blue and it'll be a much more subtle contrast than it looks in the render. It's a dark blue, V4 here: http://i.imgur.com/LDs4wQI.png (http://i.imgur.com/LDs4wQI.png)
Can't be sure though. Teal would be safer. Thoughts?
ugh, that looks so nice with the teal alpha's and mod's. this is much better than Feng's cyan set which is nice
the full set of keys like in Ivan's 85|15 set is of course best as it can fit everything known to man, but also so expensive. Using the same keys as Ivan's dolch here can't fit lots of boards, most ironic with Dolch being that it couldn't fit the G80-1800's it originally came on.
I'm not going to ask for the minimum keys necessary to make this fit just MY specific layout (obviously 1800) but what about a blank 1x in each color for R3, R2, & R1. So 6 blanks more added. (Also if you change bottom row to A/R5 profile then that would need 2 teal blanks as well.)
I can't think of any layout you couldn't make work with this addition of blanks. Of course its not perfect and would be better with correct legends everywhere, but I doubt 500 people will pay the $20-25 more a set to do this (dolch vs. 85|15 cost). Going to be hard enough to get 500 to begin with at the price premium this will have
If you need more blanks than that, then let them trade with someone else afterwords....that is probably what i'd do to correct the Delete/End/PgDn profile for 1800
Post by: radio_killah on Thu, 08 January 2015, 23:03:10
I don't know how this could possibly reach MOQ though.. You are trying to keep costs down by having fewer keys, but there is already an increase due to the premium on color matching. But by having fewer keys for compatibility it turns off some buyers. This will be tough...
If the premium for color matching doesn't raise the price astronomically I would suggest adding keys to increase compatibility for folks and hopefully that can reel in more for the MOQ.
Post by: Joey Quinn on Thu, 08 January 2015, 23:42:28
Post by: renne on Fri, 09 January 2015, 01:49:55
Post by: pasph on Fri, 09 January 2015, 05:50:25
Post by: geniekid on Fri, 09 January 2015, 08:34:52
Post by: Chemisery on Fri, 09 January 2015, 09:17:41
Don't get me wrong, both sets look really great, but not great for my wallet.
I will be in for one set if the time is right. :-X
Teal legend and symmetry please!
Post by: Dee1 on Fri, 09 January 2015, 13:00:38
Post by: Heliosphere on Fri, 09 January 2015, 15:37:09
Blue looks neat, I wouldn't mind it. Teal would be fine as well.
I second having a control and caps lock swap option if possible.
Post by: CommonCurt on Fri, 09 January 2015, 16:13:46
Looks great intelli. If it were up to me, this is what I would change.
-Numpad legends changed to standard ANSI legends. See G80-3000HAU.
-Add second alt keys, or change the alt gr.
-Ins/Del legends changed to Insert/Delete
+1
Post by: Rainbow_ on Fri, 09 January 2015, 18:08:12
(sorry if this was solved, I was kinda skimming :s)
Post by: Den441 on Sat, 10 January 2015, 23:04:35
Post by: FrostyToast on Sun, 11 January 2015, 06:44:37
Although quotes would definitely help to decide which one is more viable.
Post by: Heliosphere on Fri, 16 January 2015, 22:33:01
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 16 January 2015, 22:38:00
Any update? I think if you manage to get the deep teal matched based on the picture, the alphas might look close enough to the bluish tinge, in case we decide to go with teal rather than blue text.
I'll make some decisions this weekend and submit a request for the final render and quote. I've heard everyone's requests and I will do what I can to please the majority. I've kind of been dragging my heels because there are so many other GBs happening right now -- but with Hyperfuse etc on the way, that's not going to change, so we might as well get this going asap. I will be contacting Massdrop about assisting with this.
Re: legends -- I am going to go with the teal. It's a safer bet, and also FrostyToast made an excellent point here:
My view is that anyone could get blue on grey alphas, but this is the one opportunity we will have to get alphas with the teal colour.
Will have an update soon.
Post by: radio_killah on Sat, 17 January 2015, 00:53:43
Ugh.. I'd rather not use massdrop after the whole Granite thing.. I get its the Germans and they are MUCH less likely to mess anything up but I know it would help with getting moq. Does GMK offer a lower price with higher moq?Any update? I think if you manage to get the deep teal matched based on the picture, the alphas might look close enough to the bluish tinge, in case we decide to go with teal rather than blue text.
I'll make some decisions this weekend and submit a request for the final render and quote. I've heard everyone's requests and I will do what I can to please the majority. I've kind of been dragging my heels because there are so many other GBs happening right now -- but with Hyperfuse etc on the way, that's not going to change, so we might as well get this going asap. I will be contacting Massdrop about assisting with this.
Re: legends -- I am going to go with the teal. It's a safer bet, and also FrostyToast made an excellent point here:My view is that anyone could get blue on grey alphas, but this is the one opportunity we will have to get alphas with the teal colour.
Will have an update soon.
Post by: quochung1989 on Sat, 17 January 2015, 01:22:11
Post by: intelli78 on Sat, 17 January 2015, 01:26:06
I didn't follow the Massdrop granite buy. What happened, and whose fault was it, SP or MD? Massdrop will be clutch in 2 areas - MOQ and fulfillment. It will provide far more visibility than we can get otherwise, and they have a whole team to ship things out. I am not as heroic as Ivan, and I really don't want to be responsible for shipping 500+ orders by myself.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 17 January 2015, 01:29:23
Yeah, not normally, but in this case they will be applying a price premium to bring down the MOQ, since normally it is 1,000 for custom colors. I would assume the price premium would be canceled if we reached 1,000. That's HIGHLY unlikely, but maybe they'll offer another tier in between or something. Or maybe Massdrop will negotiate it. I don't know, we'll see what happens.SP sent out screwed up sets again for R2 and massdrops response is their typical, oops here is $25 to make up for your wasted hundreds of dollars spent please go away now.
I didn't follow the Massdrop granite buy. What happened, and whose fault was it, SP or MD? Massdrop will be clutch in 2 areas - MOQ and fulfillment. It will provide far more visibility than we can get otherwise, and they have a whole team to ship things out. I am not as heroic as Ivan, and I really don't want to be responsible for shipping 500+ orders by myself.
Post by: trizkut on Sat, 17 January 2015, 01:31:54
I didn't follow the Massdrop granite buy. What happened, and whose fault was it, SP or MD? Massdrop will be clutch in 2 areas - MOQ and fulfillment. It will provide far more visibility than we can get otherwise, and they have a whole team to ship things out. I am not as heroic as Ivan, and I really don't want to be responsible for shipping 500+ orders by myself.
SP was delayed in delivering Granite I think... Massdrop was blamed for taking so long.
Several sets had problems like wrong legends printed... Massdrop was blamed for not checking more thoroughly.
According to MD, there were 5.5k people in the drop. I don't think MD has ever done a keycap drop anywhere near that scale, and it's uncertain I believe whether or not SP pre-sorted packs in shipment.
Post by: intelli78 on Sat, 17 January 2015, 01:32:00
I am not aware of GMK ever having quality control issues. Even if they did... I don't see how having Massdrop involved would limit our bargaining power any more than me by myself. It would probably be the opposite, actually.
Edit: Trizkut, thanks for the additional info. So it sounds like it wasn't all SP's fault. Well, as for legends, you all will be approving them here on GH. Yes I guess Massdrop could cause problems in the sorting or shipping phase.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 17 January 2015, 01:36:46
Okay... well...More than likely you might run into a legend issue if anything.
I am not aware of GMK ever having quality control issues. Even if they did... I don't see how having Massdrop involved would limit our bargaining power any more than me by myself. It would probably be the opposite, actually.
Also you can have GMK sort these.
Personally I've had mixed experiences with Massdrops customer service in resolving problems.
Post by: intelli78 on Sat, 17 January 2015, 01:40:25
More than likely you might run into a legend issue if anything.
Also you can have GMK sort these also.
That won't happen. We will finalize the render here on GH and that's what the order will be for. If we use Massdrop, I will stay in contact with Christoph at GMK throughout the process.
Yes, ideally we will have GMK sort them, unless it is massively cheaper for Massdrop to do it (which I doubt). We can cross that bridge when we come to it.
Looking at the way GMK GBs are going lately, I think we need MD regardless of the fulfillment issue.
Post by: taylordcraig on Sat, 17 January 2015, 09:41:25
More than likely you might run into a legend issue if anything.
Also you can have GMK sort these also.
That won't happen. We will finalize the render here on GH and that's what the order will be for. If we use Massdrop, I will stay in contact with Christoph at GMK throughout the process.
Yes, ideally we will have GMK sort them, unless it is massively cheaper for Massdrop to do it (which I doubt). We can cross that bridge when we come to it.
Looking at the way GMK GBs are going lately, I think we need MD regardless of the fulfillment issue.
You're absolutely right. MD would be the perfect way to sell this set. So many people will see it as a premium set, and we could have a FIRST EVER, ONCE IN A LIFETIME thingy in the description.
I vote teal legends and I'd buy two, the blue legends scare me a little too much, I'm not sure if it would be too contrasty and just look better samey; REALLY NERVOUS.
Post by: blighty on Sat, 17 January 2015, 15:30:58
Post by: Zeal on Sat, 17 January 2015, 15:35:54
Post by: Photekq on Sat, 17 January 2015, 15:37:12
You'll have to note that MD also takes a cut of all sales, thus inflating the final price as well. Maybe see if you can get a tiered pricing with GMK for orders over 250.Their next lowest price is at 400. You're looking at about 10EUR decrease.
Post by: ideus on Sat, 17 January 2015, 16:15:37
Post by: pasph on Sat, 17 January 2015, 18:38:03
Post by: radio_killah on Sat, 17 January 2015, 19:32:54
The set is looking good! I doubt I'd join the buy if it went through MD though (didn't care for my customer service experience with them). If the set does reach MOQ, hopefully I'll find one in the aftermarket for a not too jacked up in price.
You'll have to note that MD also takes a cut of all sales, thus inflating the final price as well. Maybe see if you can get a tiered pricing with GMK for orders over 250.
MD?: I am still waiting for my most recent buy from them that already has a month delay, while I am reading nasty things for their customer service for other GBs. Do you really want a nice set like this to be sold through that channel? Good luck.
Massdrop? After Granite R2 never again. I'll wait for someone that will resell it
Please think long and hard before your decide to work with them. I know this is a very small and vocal sample size but just make sure you get some feedback from others who have worked with them.
Post by: taylordcraig on Sun, 18 January 2015, 01:14:38
Never had any real issue, that said, still need to count my r2.
Post by: Heliosphere on Sun, 18 January 2015, 02:27:29
If this GMK set is going to be one complete set rather than a base set + options, it will surely make logistics easier and delivery faster than Granite. Selling through MD will definitely increase the number of buys versus doing it through GH forums. Therefore, I support going through MD. The caveat of course is that MD will take a small cut, so the cost per set will probably be a little higher. If somehow the buy manages to sell over 1000 sets, maybe that added cost will be offset, with the additional concern that it will take longer for MD to fulfill the larger amount of orders.
Edit: Just had a thought. From what I've seen, GMK sets are usually quite a lot more expensive than SP's (correct me if I'm wrong). So it's likely that using MD may not garner too many sales simply due to the price. So perhaps doing a community/forum-based group buy is the better choice? Now I'm not sure which is the best option.
Post by: honoka on Sun, 18 January 2015, 03:11:12
Post by: TBone on Sun, 18 January 2015, 10:16:30
Post by: intelli78 on Sun, 18 January 2015, 21:22:09
As I have emphasized before, please try not to be too disappointed if you don't get exactly what you were hoping for. It is simply impossible to cater to every single layout and preference without overcomplicating the buy and pricing it out of reality. As we have seen with recent Group Buys, right now the market demands LEAN sets that don't break the bank, with a high bang-for-buck. This will be even truer with this set, with an unprecedented 500 MOQ and custom color price premium. This set won't get you 100% coverage on every board ever, but it will get you very close on most boards, easily topped off with a creative novelty or RGB pack. Standard layouts will be fully covered. I will post more about the changes when the renders are ready. Everybody has been very good about compromising and the buy is better off because of it. Thank you :thumb:
In the meantime I still need someone with authentic TA caps to step up and loan them out. You WILL get them back! PM ME.
Post by: FrostyToast on Sun, 18 January 2015, 21:43:17
Are they greedy, or have they somehow not seen this thread?
Post by: bueller on Sun, 18 January 2015, 21:46:20
Why the hell has no one stepped up to deliver ONE cap?
Are they greedy, or have they somehow not seen this thread?
Probably more to do with the fact that there are very few TA sets out in the wild. Don't think I've ever seen one posted on GH before, last one I saw that was actually owned by someone was over at DT.
Post by: intelli78 on Sun, 18 January 2015, 21:48:01
Why the hell has no one stepped up to deliver ONE cap?
Are they greedy, or have they somehow not seen this thread?
Very, very few people have one of these. If the cap is lost, you will never find another original to replace it. Combination of those reasons. I don't blame anyone. That said, I hope someone will step up -- but even if not, we will be OK, there are other ways to approximate the color. :thumb:
Post by: 3Love on Mon, 19 January 2015, 03:32:05
Post by: gogusrl on Thu, 29 January 2015, 14:13:36
reference thread : http://deskthority.net/f-o-r-s-a-l-e-f58/selling-off-my-collection-t7031.html?hilit=TA%20keyboard
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 13:51:23
Post by: FrostyToast on Fri, 30 January 2015, 13:57:00
Doing this through MassDrop seems like the most viable option, however they might indeed have some bad reputation after the Granite fiasco.
However, we should not disregard the fact that Granite did sell in the thousands which is much more than we would need to make this happen.
As for the traditional GB format, I wouldn't think that it would ever work just because few other buys from GMK have gotten close to 500 orders.
EDIT: I am also fine with paying for the $135 plus shipping if that is how this has to go down.
Post by: exitfire401 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:00:46
Option 1 is the best for getting the word out
Option 3 is the best for getting sets in hands the quickest.
Post by: FrostyToast on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:09:58
People who commit early to the group buy would get a slight discount plus get it sooner while still making this highly possible.
It would also lessen the blow on your wallet and you won't have to take as big a dive.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:13:18
Post by: Zeal on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:13:28
Have you contacted GMK what 1k order pricing would be? If it drops substantially, Massdrop would be a good consideration.
@JD 500 orders is the lowest GMK is willing to go for custom colours. It's usually 1k.
Post by: 3Love on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:15:30
Post by: FrostyToast on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:16:41
Option 5: Take out your Amex Black card and call it a day. ;)
(http://i2.minus.com/igYlO94ibqHfK.png)
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:16:49
@JD 500 orders is the lowest GMK is willing to go for custom colours. It's usually 1k.
Oh, I didn't know the teal was a custom color.
Still, 500 is not gonna happen. You have to be realistic.
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:19:24
Option 5: Take out your Amex Black card and call it a day. ;)
Have you contacted GMK what 1k order pricing would be? If it drops substantially, Massdrop would be a good consideration.
Hhha hhha cann't do
Personally I think Massdrop is the best option. They will have the biggest reach and they can take care of all the logistics. I can't speak for them but I'm pretty sure they'll be down.
I'll inquire about further discounts if I start talking to MD. GMK guy is on vacation for the next week and a half anyway.
Still, 500 is not gonna happen. You have to be realistic.
What will you eat if you're wrong?
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:20:24
What will you eat if you're wrong?
My words. And bitter they will taste.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:23:01
GMK guy is on vacation for the next week and a half
I need to move to germany, those guys are always on vacation. snoopy hook me up. :p
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:23:42
What will you eat if you're wrong?
My words. And bitter they will taste.
I think you should eat something more brutal, like a Triumph Adler numpad.
Anyway, what are you contributing by saying that? Do you want me to lock up the thread and turn off the lights before we even try? :rolleyes: I think there's a totally realistic chance it'll go down, with Massdrop + bulk orders from overseas communities. Not 100% but enough that I put the third option on the table. However, everything will be better if people are willing to go with MD.
Post by: Zeal on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:23:50
Shipping will be bulkier / more expensive for end users (and shipping to you due to volumetric weight), but it'll guarantee that your $100+ keyset arrives safely + you get a "free" display case.
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:25:50
Btw, I'd highly recommend having GMK pack them in the flat plastic keycap trays. I cannot stress this enough. Packing in plastic ziplock bags is just asking to have your keys scratched/scuffed (unless every key is in a bag, which is unlikely). Plus, it would be a lot easier for you (or MD) to do a quick QC check that every key is in place / no redundant keys.
Shipping will be bulkier / more expensive for end users, but it'll guarantee that your $100+ keyset arrives safely.
I did consider this and it is definitely something I'm open to. It's not that much more expensive than the bags, and you're right, it improves/hastens QC big time. The main thing I was considering was end cost to user-- but the MD price would be low enough that we could splurge on the shipping.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:27:16
Anyway, what are you contributing by saying that? Do you want me to lock up the thread and turn off the lights before we even try?
It's your heartbreak, brother. I just don't think 500 is gonna happen, even with MD's help. But hey, please prove me wrong. I'll even order a set.
Post by: Zeal on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:29:03
Btw, I'd highly recommend having GMK pack them in the flat plastic keycap trays. I cannot stress this enough. Packing in plastic ziplock bags is just asking to have your keys scratched/scuffed (unless every key is in a bag, which is unlikely). Plus, it would be a lot easier for you (or MD) to do a quick QC check that every key is in place / no redundant keys.
Shipping will be bulkier / more expensive for end users, but it'll guarantee that your $100+ keyset arrives safely.
I did consider this and it is definitely something I'm open to. It's not that much more expensive than the bags, and you're right, it improves/hastens QC big time. The main thing I was considering was end cost to user-- but the MD price would be low enough that we could splurge on the shipping.
Last thing you want is another group of 1000 people pissed off with Massdrop that their keyset is missing keys/has damaged keys. Then they'll have to handle each complaint separately & order / request for extras from GMK.
Even if the buy doesn't go through MD, clear keycap trays should be standard in the future.
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:31:29
Anyway, what are you contributing by saying that? Do you want me to lock up the thread and turn off the lights before we even try?
It's your heartbreak, brother. I just don't think 500 is gonna happen, even with MD's help. But hey, please prove me wrong. I'll even order a set.
I can completely understand how you come to a number like 300 and I don't fault you for thinking it, but I know personally I would much rather have tried and failed than never to have tried at all. I guess I just have a different outlook on the demand for the set and the ability of Massdrop to drive sales, especially at this (very good) price point.
Besides, the time for that has passed. People said to quit back at the beginning of the thread, didn't, and nothing has changed since then that would decrease the likelihood of success. In fact, everything has gone RIGHT, starting with getting it down to 500 MOQ and culminating with a per set price that's actually LESS than most other GMK buys DESPITE the price premium. :cool:
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:34:00
Last thing you want is another group of 1000 people pissed off with Massdrop that their keyset is missing keys/has damaged keys. Then they'll have to handle each complaint separately & order / request for extras from GMK.
Even if the buy doesn't go through MD, clear keycap trays should be standard in the future.
You are exactly right. I agree as long as it's not cost prohibitive. It will be at least another 250-500 EUR for the bulk shipment plus end buyer costs, but I agree the benefits are significant, especially w/r/t pre-empting problems fulfillment problems.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:34:35
Btw, I'd highly recommend having GMK pack them in the flat plastic keycap trays. I cannot stress this enough. Packing in plastic ziplock bags is just asking to have your keys scratched/scuffed (unless every key is in a bag, which is unlikely). Plus, it would be a lot easier for you (or MD) to do a quick QC check that every key is in place / no redundant keys.
Shipping will be bulkier / more expensive for end users, but it'll guarantee that your $100+ keyset arrives safely.
I did consider this and it is definitely something I'm open to. It's not that much more expensive than the bags, and you're right, it improves/hastens QC big time. The main thing I was considering was end cost to user-- but the MD price would be low enough that we could splurge on the shipping.
Last thing you want is another group of 1000 people pissed off with Massdrop that their keyset is missing keys/has damaged keys. Then they'll have to handle each complaint separately & order / request for extras from GMK.
Even if the buy doesn't go through MD, clear keycap trays should be standard in the future.
The only reason I see to not do the keycap trays is it might lead to a large increase to the cost of shipping to the end user, since you would then be shipping something the size of a keyboard basically.
Post by: LechnerDE on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:37:40
I will definitely order a set and double my order if it helps.
I think we should try Massdrop for this (option 1). If it doesn't work out option 3 is good enough for me. The mark up is more than fair considering how much money you would have to invest first :thumb:
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:37:47
The only reason I see to not do the keycap trays is it might lead to a large increase to the cost of shipping to the end user, since you would then be shipping something the size of a keyboard basically.
The size of a keyboard, but much lighter. I've never shipped a package like that, not exactly sure what it would run. From what I can gather from USPS.com it would likely be $10ish for standard (not priority) shipping, which is not terrible-- though the bagged sets could likely go Priority at about 60% of the cost.
Post by: FrostyToast on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:38:40
The only reason I see to not do the keycap trays is it might lead to a large increase to the cost of shipping to the end user, since you would then be shipping something the size of a keyboard basically.
The size of a keyboard, but much lighter. I've never shipped a package like that, not exactly sure what it would run. From what I can gather from USPS.com it would likely be $10ish for standard (not priority) shipping, which is not terrible-- though the bagged sets could likely go Priority at about 60% of the cost.
As someone who lives in Canada, I laugh that you guys will complain about $10 shipping.
Post by: radio_killah on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:44:35
Option 5: Take out your Amex Black card and call it a day. ;)
Have you contacted GMK what 1k order pricing would be? If it drops substantially, Massdrop would be a good consideration.
Hhha hhha cann't do
Personally I think Massdrop is the best option. They will have the biggest reach and they can take care of all the logistics. I can't speak for them but I'm pretty sure they'll be down.
I'll inquire about further discounts if I start talking to MD. GMK guy is on vacation for the next week and a half anyway.Still, 500 is not gonna happen. You have to be realistic.
What will you eat if you're wrong?
Knowing Lekashman he would love for MD to run this GB. That being said, I am not the biggest fan of them, BUT with your exception that they will have zero input on anything, basically acting as a middle man for collecting orders and taking a small cut, I am fine with this. Part of the issue was MD communicating with SP. As long as you're the only one communicating with GMK about this, then I am all gucci with using MD as a platform. I don't think you should ever front money up like this, seems a BIT irresponsible. The set looks fine, although I am sad I will be missing a few keys, I can live with it. Keeping costs down though will be the best option for MD. IF you can get sufficient hype you should work out a 2 tier price drop. The $115 + shipping is base for 500 sets, and then $1XX + shipping for the 1000.
ALSO the Bay area Kiibohd meet up is happening tomorrow at MD headquarters. So Lekashman will be there of course. He is the guy who is in charge of all the MD mechanical keyboard stuff if you didn't already know that. But yeah I am sure some one could bring this thread up to him tomorrow. (Not sure who else will be there but guys like, Nuclearsandwich, Haata, Jacobulous, Samwisekoi, etc. will be there, myself included.)
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:47:15
IF you can get sufficient hype you should work out a 2 tier price drop. The $115 + shipping is base for 500 sets, and then $1XX + shipping for the 1000.
I can see this working, possibly. With the right marketing.
Also, see if you can get some vendors (4?) to commit to ordering 50 sets. :D
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:49:08
Knowing Lekashman he would love for MD to run this GB. That being said, I am not the biggest fan of them, BUT with your exception that they will have zero input on anything, basically acting as a middle man for collecting orders and taking a small cut, I am fine with this. Part of the issue was MD communicating with SP. As long as you're the only one communicating with GMK about this, then I am all gucci with using MD as a platform. I don't think you should ever front money up like this, seems a BIT irresponsible. The set looks fine, although I am sad I will be missing a few keys, I can live with it. Keeping costs down though will be the best option for MD. IF you can get sufficient hype you should work out a 2 tier price drop. The $115 + shipping is base for 500 sets, and then $1XX + shipping for the 1000.
ALSO the Bay area Kiibohd meet up is happening tomorrow at MD headquarters. So Lekashman will be there of course. He is the guy who is in charge of all the MD mechanical keyboard stuff if you didn't already know that. But yeah I am sure some one could bring this thread up to him tomorrow. (Not sure who else will be there but guys like, Nuclearsandwich, Haata, Jacobulous, Samwisekoi, etc. will be there, myself included.)
The 2 tier price drop would be great. Based on GMK's current pricing it is POSSIBLE but far from certain that it could reach a $99.99 minimum tier. If GMK provided additional discounts @ 1000 then there would really be a good chance of having that. Which would be 1NSANE, honestly, that is unheard of, and for a set like this?
I already have a good relationship with Andrew L due to the recent keyboard case drops. I would strongly prefer if you do not bring it up, as I've not had the chance to even give him a heads up. I mean, if it comes up in conversation that's great, just please leave it that I'll be in touch with him and give him the full details, don't try to drop the bomb on him @ the meetup and convince him there, let me handle it since I'm doing the gb. I want to emphasize -- like you I think they'll be willing to do this drop, but I have NOT spoken to him and anything I'm saying about their participation right now is only speculation. :thumb:
Post by: whentheclouds on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:50:49
costwise, i was ready to pay upwards of $150 for this set, so fantastic job getting it lowered to a standard price. hence, any method you go with is fine by me. i'm actually quite optimistic that we can hit 500 MOQ without the help of MD. curious to see what the final price will come down to with 1000 MOQ, though that's probably out of reach even with MD's participation
lastly, what are the most important keys you had to cut from the final selection?
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:51:05
I can see this working, possibly. With the right marketing.
Also, see if you can get some vendors (4?) to commit to ordering 50 sets. :D
See, now you are thinking right.
GH-250
DT-50
Korea-100
China-50
Reddit-50
Total = 500, no need for any vendors. And add other countries, manipulate the numbers a bit... still no real need. And if we can get it down to a $99.99 price point? at 500. Totally done deal.
$99.99 at 1,000... I'm much more skeptical about that, it's just SO MANY but... even that I would not rule out completely.
Post by: dimmu on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:51:39
Post by: Heliosphere on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:55:14
I also think that going MD might be the best option. I've already said this before, but MD had trouble with Granite because they had to hand sort all the various kits to match orders. Since this GMK TA is going to be ONE complete set, MD fulfillment will be a lot simpler and less prone to screwups.
I guess doing a traditional GB is possible too, but we'll have to advertise the **** out of this buy.
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:57:22
lookin' good son! only concern i have at the moment is how feint the legends are on the alphas, despite knowing how wonky GMK renders look colorwise. in the case you don't find a TA cap, how about an ever-so-slightly deeper teal like #367178?
costwise, i was ready to pay upwards of $150 for this set, so fantastic job getting it lowered to a standard price. hence, any method you go with is fine by me. i'm actually quite optimistic that we can hit 500 MOQ without the help of MD. curious to see what the final price will come down to with 1000 MOQ, though that's probably out of reach even with MD's participation
lastly, what are the most important keys you had to cut from the final selection?
Do not worry about the render. The hex code is just a placeholder. They will color match a real cap and it will look basically the same as the original board, not faint. The main variable will actually be the base gray color-- there is really only one color on the color ring that comes close (2B) so we are kinda stuck with that. Looks to be very close though I'm going to push to see some samples before the full production goes down.
Most important keys cut... honestly, really not that much. We kept all the must-haves. You can cover almost any layout you want, you just might have to live with some wrong legends.
Things that come to mind... blanks of all sizes, some HHKB keys, 1x 0, B-profile bottom arrows and bottom numpad... teal `~ .....
Like I said, the nice-to-haves.
I really think the set design is among the best ever, not just because I was involved, but because it's so efficient. If I had it my way we'd get rid of the Fn too, but c'est la vie, Photekq
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 14:58:25
awesome job pushing for this GB to happen despite all the negativity, intelli78! hopefully, we get enough support to reach that 500 moq, not only for the sake of this keyset but also for all the potential custom color gmk sets in the future.
Thanks bro I'm excited too!
Will the color-matched teal look darker than the renders show, or at least is that what we're hoping?
I also think that going MD might be the best option. I've already said this before, but MD had trouble with Granite because they had to hand sort all the various kits to match orders. Since this GMK TA is going to be ONE complete set, MD fulfillment will be a lot simpler and less prone to screwups.
Edit of earlier post:
You know...
I am actually a little hung up on teal for the alphas. People were split about 50/50 between the blue I originally chose and the teal.
I switched it over to teal on the logic that anyone can make blue-on-gray, but the teal-on-gray is a one time shot.
But while I EXPECT the teal to have better contrast IRL than in the render, maaaaaaaaybe just maybe we should actually go with the blue. Examining the OG pics, the alphas really did not age uniformly. They are much closer to blue than teal, and the blue will DEFINITELY have higher contrast than the teal, even if the contrast of the teal is ~sufficient~.
The render with the blue, at least, DOES make the set have more POP.
Original render for comparison:
(http://i.imgur.com/2zC5yps.png)
Thoughts?
Post by: whentheclouds on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:08:46
colored spacebar will be nice to have of course, but i understand it's just an afterthought
Post by: Zeal on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:08:58
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ x infinityThe only reason I see to not do the keycap trays is it might lead to a large increase to the cost of shipping to the end user, since you would then be shipping something the size of a keyboard basically.
The size of a keyboard, but much lighter. I've never shipped a package like that, not exactly sure what it would run. From what I can gather from USPS.com it would likely be $10ish for standard (not priority) shipping, which is not terrible-- though the bagged sets could likely go Priority at about 60% of the cost.
As someone who lives in Canada, I laugh that you guys will complain about $10 shipping.
Cannot stress this enough :))
I can see this working, possibly. With the right marketing.
Also, see if you can get some vendors (4?) to commit to ordering 50 sets. :D
See, now you are thinking right.
GH-250
DT-50
Korea-100
China-50
Reddit-50
Total = 500, no need for any vendors. And add other countries, manipulate the numbers a bit... still no real need. And if we can get it down to a $99.99 price point? at 500. Totally done deal.
$99.99 at 1,000... I'm much more skeptical about that, it's just SO MANY but... even that I would not rule out completely.
I think you're underestimating the Chinese keyboard community. They pay out the ass for GMK sets due to currency conversions & s/h. At $99.99, it'll be a ridiculously cheap price point.
Hosting a GB w/ PP at such large orders would also be risky. Just one impatient person could kill the whole GB. As Massdrop already has a good relation w/ PP + their funds holding system in place, it would be a better idea to go this route.
Only request for int'l orders is to never ship light items via priority flat rate. Finding a proper sized box (might have to be custom produced) will always be cheaper.
Lower purchase price also = lower customs duties we (may) have to pay. Although I do wish they would stop using their Massdrop tape :( It's like a red flag for customs to say "hey, pick me out of the pile!"
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:12:19
i'm not very familiar with R5 bottomrow, how well will it fit onto a winkeyless mx-mini board?
colored spacebar will be nice to have of course, but i understand it's just an afterthought
On an MX mini you're golden. The entire bottom row will be R5 so you won't notice any difference in profile height (except spacebar, but that's OG Cherry, there is no such thing as R5 spacebar and there never was).
Post by: Heliosphere on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:12:41
The teal will look like the OG pics in the OP. Nevar trust GMK renders.
I expect, contrast-wise at least, it will be more like the original render with blue letters:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/2zC5yps.png)
The dream is almost real! This is currently my most anticipated set. Whether or not we make it to the end of the race, I'll have your back.
Post by: LechnerDE on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:14:51
Although I do wish they would stop using their Massdrop tape :( It's like a red flag for customs to say "hey, pick me out of the pile!"
Customs is a really good point. Getting it trough Massdrop normally means +30-40$ for international orders just because they will declare the actual price on the box :(
Post by: Zeal on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:15:50
Edit: this one
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=64618.0;attach=80529;image)
Post by: billnye on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:17:07
I wish you the best of luck with this, and if there is anything I can do to help, please let me know! :)
Post by: radio_killah on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:18:19
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ x infinityThe only reason I see to not do the keycap trays is it might lead to a large increase to the cost of shipping to the end user, since you would then be shipping something the size of a keyboard basically.
The size of a keyboard, but much lighter. I've never shipped a package like that, not exactly sure what it would run. From what I can gather from USPS.com it would likely be $10ish for standard (not priority) shipping, which is not terrible-- though the bagged sets could likely go Priority at about 60% of the cost.
As someone who lives in Canada, I laugh that you guys will complain about $10 shipping.
Cannot stress this enough :))I can see this working, possibly. With the right marketing.
Also, see if you can get some vendors (4?) to commit to ordering 50 sets. :D
See, now you are thinking right.
GH-250
DT-50
Korea-100
China-50
Reddit-50
Total = 500, no need for any vendors. And add other countries, manipulate the numbers a bit... still no real need. And if we can get it down to a $99.99 price point? at 500. Totally done deal.
$99.99 at 1,000... I'm much more skeptical about that, it's just SO MANY but... even that I would not rule out completely.
I think you're underestimating the Chinese keyboard community. They pay out the ass for GMK sets due to currency conversions & s/h. At $99.99, it'll be a ridiculously cheap price point.
Hosting a GB w/ PP at such large orders would also be risky. Just one impatient person could kill the whole GB. As Massdrop already has a good relation w/ PP + their funds holding system in place, it would be a better idea to go this route.
Only request for int'l orders is to never ship light items via priority flat rate. Finding a proper sized box (might have to be custom produced) will always be cheaper.
Lower purchase price also = lower customs duties we (may) have to pay. Although I do wish they would stop using their Massdrop tape :( It's like a red flag for customs to say "hey, pick me out of the pile!"
I don't think that many people know what Massdrop is. Look at amazon though, they always use their special tape , and they are huge. I am surprised we don't hear more stories about amazon packages getting stolen off porches all the time.
I do know that nike for one NEVER ships out stuff with any branding. Especially their custom made to order nikeID shoes. They always come in the plainest brown boxes.
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:18:25
So, have you contacted the owners of the TA keybaords / that unknown teal model w/ circular F-row?
No, holding out for the real deal if possible. The teal appears the same hue but would rather get a G80 cap if we can. Better yet, somebody will seize the chance to sell me the OG board :p
Thoughts on the blue legends? We're a bit constrained due to GMK's unpredictable renders but now that I look back on the first render, I'm actually thinking it could be a better choice.
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:20:09
Although I do wish they would stop using their Massdrop tape :( It's like a red flag for customs to say "hey, pick me out of the pile!"
Customs is a really good point. Getting it trough Massdrop normally means +30-40$ for international orders just because they will declare the actual price on the box :(
If I ran the GB I am not sure I'd be willing to fake the values. Whether the law is enforced is one matter, but that's a pretty serious crime (by the textbook, that is) and it's a lot of money at stake.
10/10 will buy Intelli.
I wish you the best of luck with this, and if there is anything I can do to help, please let me know! :)
Thx BRO :thumb:
Post by: exitfire401 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:20:18
So, have you contacted the owners of the TA keybaords / that unknown teal model w/ circular F-row?
No, holding out for the real deal if possible. The teal appears the same hue but would rather get a G80 cap if we can. Better yet, somebody will seize the chance to sell me the OG board :p
Thoughts on the blue legends? We're a bit constrained due to GMK's unpredictable renders but now that I look back on the first render, I'm actually thinking it could be a better choice.
The blue legends look like they match the original picture the best, so I like them.
Post by: FrostyToast on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:22:59
I mean... I don't want to fork over an extra $60 or whatever for blue on grey alphas which are generic as hell.
plus: There are possibly other decent options if I wanted blue on grey.... no idea though
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:23:53
(http://i.imgur.com/5rDuidj.png)
But as we can see, the contrast turned out to be much lower on the official render.
to what degree this will translate to IRL... hard to say. But things we know for a fact: 1) blue will have higher contrast than teal just by the properties of color alone, regardless of all other factors, and 2) the originals are more blue than teal.
Post by: Heliosphere on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:23:55
Thoughts on the blue legends? We're a bit constrained due to GMK's unpredictable renders but now that I look back on the first render, I'm actually thinking it could be a better choice.
Personally I don't mind the blue, but if we can match the dark teal of the original TA it might work better than blue. Also a good point was made on customs for international orders with MD, do you think it might be better for international buyers if we did traditional buy?
Post by: TBone on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:25:25
And OG Group Buy all the way.
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:31:57
So the price premium turned out to be basically nothing?
Massdrop all the way! Wider audience! More sets! More chance to meet MOQ!
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:33:35
:eek:
So the price premium turned out to be basically nothing?
Massdrop all the way! Wider audience! More sets! More chance to meet MOQ!
Not sure what it is, because I don't know what the price would look like for standard colors @ 500 orders. Could be fairly hefty like $10-20 for all I know. But the increased MOQ basically made it irrelevant.
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:35:18
Not sure what it is, because I don't know what the price would look like for standard colors @ 500 orders. Could be fairly hefty like $10-20 for all I know. But the increased MOQ basically more than washed it out.It's like 75EUR at 400 (same at 500).
I was expecting a HEFTY price premium.
Post by: Heliosphere on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:39:23
This was a Photoshop I did of the original render - changed the blue to teal manually. This, I thought looked pretty good and is what convinced me to change over to the teal.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/5rDuidj.png)
But as we can see, the contrast turned out to be much lower on the official render.
to what degree this will translate to IRL... hard to say. But things we know for a fact: 1) blue will have higher contrast than teal just by the properties of color alone, regardless of all other factors, and 2) the originals are more blue than teal.
You got the shade pretty well there, and I like it. I agree the contrast is not as great as with blue... but it seems pretty faithful to the original. Maybe if you darkened it a bit more?
Post by: Sent on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:42:23
This was a Photoshop I did of the original render - changed the blue to teal manually. This, I thought looked pretty good and is what convinced me to change over to the teal.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/5rDuidj.png)
But as we can see, the contrast turned out to be much lower on the official render.
to what degree this will translate to IRL... hard to say. But things we know for a fact: 1) blue will have higher contrast than teal just by the properties of color alone, regardless of all other factors, and 2) the originals are more blue than teal.
I like this render over the others. The official render does look pretty light, unfortunately. However, going with blue isn't really my cup of tea, either. This seems like the perfect compromise to me. I'd probably still go with the teal legends even if they look a bit light. It's never been done before and something about the blue legends just really doesn't appeal to me.
Post by: whentheclouds on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:45:08
On an MX mini you're golden. The entire bottom row will be R5 so you won't notice any difference in profile height (except spacebar, but that's OG Cherry, there is no such thing as R5 spacebar and there never was).thanks, but i haven't yet understood why R5 is preferable to R4, if at all. does the extra height translate into better usability?
about the legends, i still think blue is the way to go. but a larger portion want teal, and you just have to compromise when it comes down to ensuring the overall success of the buy. i hope some people do rethink their stance though, considering how dull teal legends look on the (admitted unreliable) render
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:46:37
This was a Photoshop I did of the original render - changed the blue to teal manually. This, I thought looked pretty good and is what convinced me to change over to the teal.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/5rDuidj.png)
But as we can see, the contrast turned out to be much lower on the official render.
to what degree this will translate to IRL... hard to say. But things we know for a fact: 1) blue will have higher contrast than teal just by the properties of color alone, regardless of all other factors, and 2) the originals are more blue than teal.
I like this render over the others. The official render does look pretty light, unfortunately. However, going with blue isn't really my cup of tea, either. This seems like the perfect compromise to me. I'd probably still go with the teal legends even if they look a bit light. It's never been done before and something about the blue legends just really doesn't appeal to me.
What you have to keep in mind is that the render doesn't really predict IRL results. GMK could darken the render but in the end they're just going to use the color of the sample we send them, regardless of how light or dark the render is. The question is whether the contrast will be high enough IRL. To that extent I certainly *hope* the Photoshopped render is more predictive.
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:53:33
Same. Like I said earlier, all the pieces needed for this difficult GB to succeed have really fallen into place. Despite naysaying, success is definitely within our reach. No question.Not sure what it is, because I don't know what the price would look like for standard colors @ 500 orders. Could be fairly hefty like $10-20 for all I know. But the increased MOQ basically more than washed it out.It's like 75EUR at 400 (same at 500).
I was expecting a HEFTY price premium.
Post by: Sent on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:55:06
What you have to keep in mind is that the render doesn't really predict IRL results. GMK could darken the render but in the end they're just going to use the color of the sample we send them, regardless of how light or dark the render is. The question is whether the contrast will be high enough IRL. To that extent I certainly *hope* the Photoshopped render is more predictive.
Yeah, I'm aware of the issues with the render. I'm just willing to take the risk with the teal and fingers crossed, the contrast will be high enough. We're already getting a custom color...I'd just rather go all in.
Post by: Zeal on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:55:52
+1 for all in. No point in just ordering custom colour for the mods.What you have to keep in mind is that the render doesn't really predict IRL results. GMK could darken the render but in the end they're just going to use the color of the sample we send them, regardless of how light or dark the render is. The question is whether the contrast will be high enough IRL. To that extent I certainly *hope* the Photoshopped render is more predictive.
Yeah, I'm aware of the issues with the render. I'm just willing to take the risk with the teal and fingers crossed, the contrast will be high enough. We're already getting a custom color...I'd just rather go all in.
Post by: Heliosphere on Fri, 30 January 2015, 15:56:29
What you have to keep in mind is that the render doesn't really predict IRL results. GMK could darken the render but in the end they're just going to use the color of the sample we send them, regardless of how light or dark the render is. The question is whether the contrast will be high enough IRL. To that extent I certainly *hope* the Photoshopped render is more predictive.
I guess you'll make the judgement once you get a TA keycap. I definitely prefer dark teal, but if it turns out the reference keycap is too light then maybe we'll simply have to go with blue.
Post by: sethk_ on Fri, 30 January 2015, 16:52:07
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 30 January 2015, 16:55:29
Post by: Joey Quinn on Fri, 30 January 2015, 17:47:57
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 17:48:29
Also sounds like teal legends are indeed preferred if the contrast is high enough-- on this, what I'll try to do is have GMK come up with some pre-production samples before doing the entire run, so we can actually see the final product for ourselves and determine if the teal will work. I think it's the best way to go as long as it's contrasty enough (though I do like the blue too!)
When do you think this will go live?
Hard to say at this point but could be in Feb. I don't think I'm really going to try to coordinate it around other GMK buys, because there are just too many. It would just get pushed back forever. If we do go the Massdrop route, then it should lessen the impact of that, since it'll recruit so many buyers from outside GH.
Post by: Joey Quinn on Fri, 30 January 2015, 17:59:52
Sounds like most people are OK with Massdrop doing fulfillment-- that's great, works for me, and I'll get in touch with them.
Also sounds like teal legends are indeed preferred if the contrast is high enough-- on this, what I'll try to do is have GMK come up with some pre-production samples before doing the entire run, so we can actually see the final product for ourselves and determine if the teal will work. I think it's the best way to go as long as it's contrasty enough (though I do like the blue too!)
If they charge for the sample I'd be willing to kick in money to fund it.
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 18:01:19
Post by: Joey Quinn on Fri, 30 January 2015, 18:16:34
Post by: cooldiscretion on Fri, 30 January 2015, 18:34:36
Post by: whentheclouds on Fri, 30 January 2015, 18:38:19
Post by: Den441 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 22:30:19
Sounds like most people are OK with Massdrop doing fulfillment-- that's great, works for me, and I'll get in touch with them.
Also sounds like teal legends are indeed preferred if the contrast is high enough-- on this, what I'll try to do is have GMK come up with some pre-production samples before doing the entire run, so we can actually see the final product for ourselves and determine if the teal will work. I think it's the best way to go as long as it's contrasty enough (though I do like the blue too!)When do you think this will go live?
Hard to say at this point but could be in Feb. I don't think I'm really going to try to coordinate it around other GMK buys, because there are just too many. It would just get pushed back forever. If we do go the Massdrop route, then it should lessen the impact of that, since it'll recruit so many buyers from outside GH.
I agree with the MD call. I think this is a great way to introduce their customer base to the highest tier of caps. Are there going to be some people on there saying that it is too expensive and they'll never pay that much for caps? Of course. Hell, I'm sure some ppl here on GH think that. But keyboards are their second biggest community behind audiophiles. There will be enthusiasts there who will be able to appreciate the significance of this set. I recommend you go ahead and start an interest check on there if you haven't already as you were the one who started this and deserve the credit all the way through. I'm sure the buyer there you talk to will tell you to do the same thing. There is still a chance they could decline this one, but if you can prove that there is interest in their community, the buyer will have more data to back up his decision to fulfill this Group buy. Massdrop is all about their community "developing" products (like the infinity keyboard.) Lastly, There has to room in there for them to make money, but given the Quantity, I'm pretty sure they can, so I'm not too worried about that.
to be honest, MD is my least preferred method out of the listed options. not quite impressed with the results of some of their previous drops (both keyboard and non-keyboard related), add to the fact that they've only mostly distributed budget products that appeal to a specific target audience, the TA buy will lose some of its exclusivity coming from there. kinda stupid but hey, i can't help the thought. not that i'll give a damn when the buy becomes a reality - and that's the most important thing :thumb:
I'm not sure what you mean by exclusivity. If the 500 sets were sold here on GH, would that really make it more exclusive? The set would still end up in the hands of true enthusiasts who are willing to shell out that kind of money for caps. I do agree that they need to improve their order fulfillment issues. I just think MD would be the only way to make this happen in a reasonable amount of time.
Post by: FrostyToast on Fri, 30 January 2015, 22:33:49
to be honest, MD is my least preferred method out of the listed options. not quite impressed with the results of some of their previous drops (both keyboard and non-keyboard related), add to the fact that they've only mostly distributed budget products that appeal to a specific target audience, the TA buy will lose some of its exclusivity coming from there. kinda stupid but hey, i can't help the thought. not that i'll give a damn when the buy becomes a reality - and that's the most important thing :thumb:
Is exclusivity something that we really want to have for this kind of group buy?
The mindset of wanting to keep this from those who aren't "enthusiasts" seems a bit silly to me and I would love it anyone could get in on this if they wanted.
Post by: exitfire401 on Fri, 30 January 2015, 22:38:14
to be honest, MD is my least preferred method out of the listed options. not quite impressed with the results of some of their previous drops (both keyboard and non-keyboard related), add to the fact that they've only mostly distributed budget products that appeal to a specific target audience, the TA buy will lose some of its exclusivity coming from there. kinda stupid but hey, i can't help the thought. not that i'll give a damn when the buy becomes a reality - and that's the most important thing :thumb:
Is exclusivity something that we really want to have for this kind of group buy?
The mindset of wanting to keep this from those who aren't "enthusiasts" seems a bit silly to me and I would love it anyone could get in on this if they wanted.
Exactly...exclusivity+GMK does not compute...especially if you even want to get into the ballpark of the MOQ.
Post by: monotagary on Fri, 30 January 2015, 23:20:53
Post by: MythicalWagyu on Fri, 30 January 2015, 23:21:55
Is exclusivity something that we really want to have for this kind of group buy?+1 the more sets sold the better! I know MD has had some issues with other buys but I have to agree they seem like the best option for wide exposure, and if they are being delivered a complete set from GMK (maybe even in a tray?) it would be far less complicated for them and less likely that problems arise. Impressive work moving this forward intelli78! :thumb:
The mindset of wanting to keep this from those who aren't "enthusiasts" seems a bit silly to me and I would love it anyone could get in on this if they wanted.
Post by: TBone on Sat, 31 January 2015, 02:30:17
Post by: whentheclouds on Sat, 31 January 2015, 02:43:10
Post by: honoka on Sat, 31 January 2015, 05:29:09
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 31 January 2015, 13:07:26
Using MD would increase the cost for this by about 25% for people outside of the US. (price+shipping)x1.25 = hella lot
Proxy it then.
Post by: intelli78 on Sat, 31 January 2015, 13:13:48
Using MD would increase the cost for this by about 25% for people outside of the US. (price+shipping)x1.25 = hella lot
Proxy it then.
Yes, best solution would be to have people in the USA make bulk orders and forward the packages. That way, they can be marked with whatever value you prefer.
I've contacted Massdrop and assuming no show-stoppers, will be pursuing that option first.
Post by: strict on Sat, 31 January 2015, 14:07:39
Post by: blighty on Sat, 31 January 2015, 16:43:21
Using MD would increase the cost for this by about 25% for people outside of the US. (price+shipping)x1.25 = hella lot
Proxy it then.
Yes, best solution would be to have people in the USA make bulk orders and forward the packages. That way, they can be marked with whatever value you prefer.
I've contacted Massdrop and assuming no show-stoppers, will be pursuing that option first.
As long as the buy goes through, that's the important part. Here's to hoping someone buys multiple orders so I can buy one of their extra sets. :)
Post by: renne on Sat, 31 January 2015, 17:25:10
it is the easiest way to make the set real. and I'd like to pay more since you are taking the risk. the one takes the risk should get some profit.
Post by: FunkMasterJ on Sat, 31 January 2015, 18:47:59
Post by: monotagary on Sat, 31 January 2015, 18:59:39
But if GMK pre sorts them it won't be so bad.
Post by: Rainbow_ on Sat, 31 January 2015, 19:12:28
Post by: monotagary on Sat, 31 January 2015, 20:20:55
I vote you take your dong out and make sweet love to GMK's CEO.
Is there like a sign up sheet for this?
Post by: ninjadoc on Sat, 31 January 2015, 20:40:08
Post by: Den441 on Sat, 31 January 2015, 21:25:40
I would be fine with any platform for running this group buy, but Massdrop is unpreferable. As much as I like the platform, I don't know if this will appeal to the their usual customer base, and I heard all the horror stories of caps missing during the Granite R2.Yeah the only reason I see them turning this down is if they think their community there has no interest in this because of the high cost. I personally think there is enough to at least help us get to MOQ considering the success of the ergodox, infinity keyboard, and SP caps they have sold. However, they may not think so. If they do decline, ask them if they'll reconsider if you start an interest check on their site and get the votes needed. They normally require 200 votes in their interest checks to contact a vendor about making an order. Typically that is how drops are started on their site unless one of their buyers thinks something is going to be a home run success without even having to have an interest check, or they have sold the item successfully before. Getting the 200 on there shouldn't be problem if it comes down to that as you could just post the link here like people do with the PMK ICs. It might set us back a month or so, but I think that is worth it if that's what gets it produced.
But if GMK pre sorts them it won't be so bad.
Post by: HebrewHammer on Mon, 02 February 2015, 18:50:32
Donger awayyyyyyyy
Post by: intelli78 on Mon, 02 February 2015, 18:52:20
Post by: FrostyToast on Mon, 02 February 2015, 19:00:22
Unfortunately guys I think my wangzor is going to play it safe on this one, but I'll be talking with Massdrop tonight or sometime this week about the buy. I think that's the way it'll go.
So if the MassDrop doesn't get enough orders in, will you take out your wangzor to pick up the slack?
Post by: Heliosphere on Mon, 02 February 2015, 19:03:03
I would be interested in the set regardless of distributor, I have to pay tax to MD so I really do not mind option 3.
Donger awayyyyyyyy
Sadly I do as well. California tax :(
Post by: intelli78 on Mon, 02 February 2015, 19:18:00
Unfortunately guys I think my wangzor is going to play it safe on this one, but I'll be talking with Massdrop tonight or sometime this week about the buy. I think that's the way it'll go.
So if the MassDrop doesn't get enough orders in, will you take out your wangzor to pick up the slack?
Maybe. It would depend how many are left and whether anyone else placed bulk orders for resale.
I did the math and if I paid for the whole thing, I would have to sell about 380 sets within 12 months @ $135 to break even. I think it's a fairly realistic scenario. But it's still a big risk just due to the amount of money involved and I'm not super sure about it. So I'd rather just have a normal drop if possible.
Post by: radio_killah on Mon, 02 February 2015, 20:24:27
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 02 February 2015, 20:33:04
Dang I forgot about CA tax... Eff that. That really turns me off to Massdrop doing it..Well, he said if it goes through Massdrop, it might bump the price down, as well as I am sure there are people willing to proxy so it's cheaper.
Post by: Zeal on Mon, 02 February 2015, 20:35:01
Post by: MythicalWagyu on Mon, 02 February 2015, 20:39:18
Dang I forgot about CA tax... Eff that. That really turns me off to Massdrop doing it..I hate sales tax too but it should only really add ~$8 to the order... much better than the poor int'l folks that have to pay import duties!
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 02 February 2015, 20:43:22
Now if only Massdrop & their fulfillment center were located in Oregon, where there's no sales tax! ;)One of their fulfillment centers is near where I live, so I usually get mine within 2 days of shipping.
Post by: Elrick on Mon, 02 February 2015, 21:22:52
I vote you take your dong out and make sweet love to GMK's CEO.
Is there like a sign up sheet for this?
Good idea but before we start making out with a 60 year old gent, let's first get some action on MassDrop, simply because you'll probably get the numbers faster then here on Geekhack.
Trying to meet 500 is a big ask almost anywhere, that is why GMK will only play with the BIG boys hence we need to get the numbers FIRST before showing ourselves to them.
Post by: Heliosphere on Tue, 03 February 2015, 00:07:37
Dang I forgot about CA tax... Eff that. That really turns me off to Massdrop doing it..
And Massdrop has recently shipped most of their stuff from New Jersey, so tax + longer shipping. Someone should establish a competing company on the other side of the country and ship out of the west coast.
Post by: Blackehart on Tue, 03 February 2015, 15:10:30
Post by: stoic-lemon on Fri, 06 February 2015, 00:46:41
Post by: whentheclouds on Fri, 06 February 2015, 21:57:07
Post by: monotagary on Sat, 07 February 2015, 02:57:59
intelli, are you decided on the Massdrop route yet? there was a pretty large MD complaint thread on Reddit yesterday, where i saw lots of people sharing the sentiment that they try to avoid purchasing from it if possible. some of the anecdotes figures weren't so pleasant to hear.. 5 months for a Granite set, over 3 months for a CM board and counting, etc.
MD is nice at times, but other times it's and absolute waste of time.
I'm not opposed to running this through MD, but with keycap buys they have a history of wetting the bed. And I'm not sure that the regular user would be able understand why a keycap set is so expensive, and complain because it's ABS.
Post by: radio_killah on Sat, 07 February 2015, 03:01:42
The pbt >>>>>>> abs hype train is all over massdrop. For sure you will get hundreds of people complaining and asking for it in pbt.intelli, are you decided on the Massdrop route yet? there was a pretty large MD complaint thread on Reddit yesterday, where i saw lots of people sharing the sentiment that they try to avoid purchasing from it if possible. some of the anecdotes figures weren't so pleasant to hear.. 5 months for a Granite set, over 3 months for a CM board and counting, etc.
MD is nice at times, but other times it's and absolute waste of time.
I'm not opposed to running this through MD, but with keycap buys they have a history of wetting the bed. And I'm not sure that the regular user would be able understand why a keycap set is so expensive, and complain because it's ABS.
Post by: trizkut on Sat, 07 February 2015, 03:05:42
I don't think SP or MD expected the buy to reach anywhere near those quantities. R1 got like what, 400 buys?
The pbt >>>>>>> abs hype train is all over massdrop. For sure you will get hundreds of people complaining and asking for it in pbt.
Then let the vocal minority complain. The above picture shows that hundreds could be a small percentage of potential buyers
Post by: dimmu on Sat, 07 February 2015, 07:18:45
Post by: monotagary on Sat, 07 February 2015, 13:46:38
The pbt >>>>>>> abs hype train is all over massdrop. For sure you will get hundreds of people complaining and asking for it in pbt.intelli, are you decided on the Massdrop route yet? there was a pretty large MD complaint thread on Reddit yesterday, where i saw lots of people sharing the sentiment that they try to avoid purchasing from it if possible. some of the anecdotes figures weren't so pleasant to hear.. 5 months for a Granite set, over 3 months for a CM board and counting, etc.
MD is nice at times, but other times it's and absolute waste of time.
I'm not opposed to running this through MD, but with keycap buys they have a history of wetting the bed. And I'm not sure that the regular user would be able understand why a keycap set is so expensive, and complain because it's ABS.
Yeah that's my biggest fear with this being run on MD. People just can't get it through their heads that PBT is not inherently better than ABS. It's the manufacturing process that makes the difference.
Post by: greath on Sat, 07 February 2015, 16:58:55
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 12 February 2015, 11:57:44
I am coordinating with Massdrop and GMK and the buy is very close to being finalized! We are even talking about color matching the gray too. But we need loaner caps or someone to sell me one of these boards! Either way works!
Need somebody to come through and be a hero... If you have connections to people with this board, send emails...
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59728.msg1371578#msg1371578
Post by: inanis on Thu, 12 February 2015, 12:29:27
I seems like running it on MD will be the best chance of meeting MOQ. As much as the typical MD user thinks that PBT is always better than ABS, there is also more "group think" than you can shake a stick at. If this starts off strong from the people that are interested here, the rest will come, and once they receive it they too will understand the sweet, sweet bliss of GMK ABS.
I hope you find someone who can pull through and provide some caps to donate to the cause.
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 12 February 2015, 12:30:57
I hope you find someone who can pull through and provide some caps to donate to the cause.
To be clear it wouldn't be donating -- no one will keep or harm the caps -- just a loan.
Post by: trizkut on Thu, 12 February 2015, 12:36:08
To be clear it wouldn't be donating -- no one will keep or harm the caps -- just a loan.
Have you tried contacting deviltiny23/neone23? I know he has a few TA-filled boards and maybe he has some mods that don't fit lying around?
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 12 February 2015, 12:37:15
Have you tried contacting deviltiny23/neone23? I know he has a few TA-filled boards and maybe he has some mods that don't fit lying around?
Photekq knows him and is working on it, but sounds like he had some real life business to deal with so may not be available ATM.
Post by: monotagary on Thu, 12 February 2015, 13:44:22
TA is such a great colorway that more people need to experience (like myself). :thumb:
Post by: whentheclouds on Thu, 12 February 2015, 18:14:06
Post by: exitfire401 on Thu, 12 February 2015, 18:15:14
so the GB's progress is reliant on getting an actual cap now? i'm strapping myself in, might be a long ride :D
Same, but at least that gives my wallet time to recover before we buy in.
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 12 February 2015, 18:18:10
Post by: Heliosphere on Thu, 12 February 2015, 22:55:08
I'm going to see if they can math to a printed color swatch instead-- this will be much easier and more precise.
That's a good idea. Hopefully GMK can replicate the color in plastic accurately.
Post by: luckyryan333 on Thu, 12 February 2015, 23:55:40
I am coordinating with Massdrop and GMK and the buy is very close to being finalized!
I'm glad to hear that!
BTW, How about adding R4 6 caps to sets as below if not exceeding the expected costs?
In my opinion, it seems as though ordinary people interested in keyboard would prefer R4 to R5 because they are used to R4 rather than R5.
Consequently it would help to hit MOQ on Massdrop, wouldn't it?
I REALLY hope it happens though!
Post by: Heliosphere on Fri, 13 February 2015, 00:12:31
I am coordinating with Massdrop and GMK and the buy is very close to being finalized!
I'm glad to hear that!
BTW, How about adding R4 6 caps to sets as below if not exceeding the expected costs?
In my opinion, it seems as though ordinary people interested in keyboard would prefer R4 to R5, because they are used to R4 rather than R5.
Consequently it would help to hit MOQ on Massdrop, wouldn't it?
I REALLY hope it happens though!
Is there an image showing the side profile of R1 through R5? I'm assuming GMK is Cherry profile, like this?:
(http://cherrycorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/12.gif)
Which row number corresponds to which?
Post by: luckyryan333 on Fri, 13 February 2015, 00:22:09
I am coordinating with Massdrop and GMK and the buy is very close to being finalized!
I'm glad to hear that!
BTW, How about adding R4 6 caps to sets as below if not exceeding the expected costs?
In my opinion, it seems as though ordinary people interested in keyboard would prefer R4 to R5, because they are used to R4 rather than R5.
Consequently it would help to hit MOQ on Massdrop, wouldn't it?
I REALLY hope it happens though!
Is there an image showing the side profile of R1 through R5? I'm assuming GMK is Cherry profile, like this?:Show Image(http://cherrycorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/12.gif)
Which row number corresponds to which?
GMK is Cherry profile. As far as I know, each row number corresponds to the alphabetical row as below originally.
F = R0
E = R1
D = R2
C = R3
B = R4
A = R5
Rows of modern cherry keyboards are like this.
Function Row (R0) : E
Number row (R1) : E
Tab row (R2) : D
Home row (R3) : C
Bottom row (R4) : B
Space bar row (R5) : B
For more information, you can refer to Numbering section at http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_profile#Cherry .
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 13 February 2015, 00:24:26
Post by: luckyryan333 on Fri, 13 February 2015, 00:33:37
Thanks for the messages, but the current design was very deliberately selected and the rationale is in the OP. No additional keys will be added except possibly teal space bars.
O, I'm sorry but I understand it. I hope you would make it happen successfully.
Lead us to get in ;)
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 13 February 2015, 00:34:41
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 13 February 2015, 18:17:19
FYI we are going to color match to a swatch instead of a real cap so that problem is solved. I will be printing up a bunch of color samples at Kinkos and selecting the ones that appear truest to the photos in OP, and then mailing them to GMK. We do this to avoid any screwups/unexpected outcomes that may happen if they attempt to match to a JPG.
Also, we will be going back to V4 (blue) for the alpha legends. Though there are some good arguments for teal (that even persuaded me temporarily) I am making an executive decision on this one. I think the set is just much more visually interesting with the blue, and also truer to the originals.
(http://i.imgur.com/AG3it54.png)
Still talking with Massdrop and GMK but I still expect things to move forward via that route.
Post by: Joey Quinn on Fri, 13 February 2015, 18:57:10
Also I've been team blue legends the whole time so I'm really stoked that you are choosing to stick to the original caps.
Post by: whentheclouds on Fri, 13 February 2015, 19:31:12
Post by: bazh on Sat, 14 February 2015, 03:40:27
Also this is so interesting to see this to happen, if this GB can work through, we can expect more custom color set from GMK in the future
Post by: CommonCurt on Sat, 14 February 2015, 04:23:22
Post by: LechnerDE on Sat, 14 February 2015, 04:43:00
yeah I'd prefer stay with the teal legends, the blue just doesn't fit in my view, and destroy all the effort of bringing custom beautiful teal color to the set
Yeah, I agree. I mean the aged blue looks good in the original, but I think trying to replicate that look with brandnew keys will fail.
I still vote for teal just because it's a one time opportunity to get that custom color made. Blue alphas can always be made later, if the demand is there...
After all it's OP's decision of course :thumb:
Post by: ideus on Sat, 14 February 2015, 12:21:28
Some updates...
FYI we are going to color match to a swatch instead of a real cap so that problem is solved. I will be printing up a bunch of color samples at Kinkos and selecting the ones that appear truest to the photos in OP, and then mailing them to GMK. We do this to avoid any screwups/unexpected outcomes that may happen if they attempt to match to a JPG.
Also, we will be going back to V4 (blue) for the alpha legends. Though there are some good arguments for teal (that even persuaded me temporarily) I am making an executive decision on this one. I think the set is just much more visually interesting with the blue, and also truer to the originals.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/AG3it54.png)
Still talking with Massdrop and GMK but I still expect things to move forward via that route.
But blue does not pair well with teal mods?
Post by: intelli78 on Sat, 14 February 2015, 12:27:43
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Sat, 14 February 2015, 12:36:58
Post by: greath on Sat, 14 February 2015, 13:18:20
Look at the photos in OP. The legends are distinctly dark blue, and they look just spiffy with the teal mods.
I think this dark blue from the original set
(http://i.imgur.com/o7qtEPj.jpg)
looks better than the blue in this mock up.
(http://i.imgur.com/AG3it54.png)
If it's close to the original blue I'm fine with it, but I think that blue in the mock up is a bit too light.
Post by: dimmu on Sat, 14 February 2015, 13:19:49
Some updates...
FYI we are going to color match to a swatch instead of a real cap so that problem is solved. I will be printing up a bunch of color samples at Kinkos and selecting the ones that appear truest to the photos in OP, and then mailing them to GMK. We do this to avoid any screwups/unexpected outcomes that may happen if they attempt to match to a JPG.
Also, we will be going back to V4 (blue) for the alpha legends. Though there are some good arguments for teal (that even persuaded me temporarily) I am making an executive decision on this one. I think the set is just much more visually interesting with the blue, and also truer to the originals.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/AG3it54.png)
Still talking with Massdrop and GMK but I still expect things to move forward via that route.
good call on this, i was initially with team teal but after seeing the renders, teal on alphas just looks too washed out, and that shade of blue gives a nice contrast. i just hope it translates well on the actual keyset itself.
Post by: sethk_ on Sat, 14 February 2015, 13:40:34
I agree with regards to the blue, the blue in the mockup looks a bit electric blueLook at the photos in OP. The legends are distinctly dark blue, and they look just spiffy with the teal mods.
I think this dark blue from the original setShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/o7qtEPj.jpg)
looks better than the blue in this mock up.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/AG3it54.png)
If it's close to the original blue I'm fine with it, but I think that blue in the mock up is a bit too light.
Post by: Giorgio on Sat, 14 February 2015, 13:56:06
I hope that you can add to the set an option made of 4 blank 1u keys, each set could be made of four keys r1,r2,r3,r4. This could allow to have international sets with some blank keys, that's better than having a wrong symbol printed on the keycap.
Also, for those who live in Europe, it would be nice to have a proxy, to avoid taxes.
Post by: ideus on Sat, 14 February 2015, 13:59:23
Post by: Heliosphere on Sat, 14 February 2015, 14:31:52
Look at the photos in OP. The legends are distinctly dark blue, and they look just spiffy with the teal mods.
I think this dark blue from the original setShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/o7qtEPj.jpg)
looks better than the blue in this mock up.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/AG3it54.png)
If it's close to the original blue I'm fine with it, but I think that blue in the mock up is a bit too light.
Yeah the colors in the photo are darker than in the mockup. Hopefully the production colors can match the photo.
Post by: Den441 on Sat, 14 February 2015, 17:24:47
(http://i.imgur.com/rIMQl8X.jpg) (http://imgur.com/rIMQl8X)
Note the un-aged under side of the alpha cap. You can the difference between the aged /un-aged blue plastic for the legends, and see that the legends did not seem to age as dramatically as the blue mods for some reason. Is it going to be a perfect match? No, but I think that is going to be pretty darn close. It will certainly still be worthy of being called a TA Replica set.
Also, If you are lucky enough to have a G80/81 Olivetti case, then with these caps you could have an entire TA-Replica board. The blue used on the Olivetti and TA case labels was the same dark blue. From a distance it would look just like the real thing I think. I couldn't say the same thing with regards to the teal legends.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sun, 15 February 2015, 08:14:06
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/rPJzPG8.png)
I don't think SP or MD expected the buy to reach anywhere near those quantities. R1 got like what, 400 buys?The pbt >>>>>>> abs hype train is all over massdrop. For sure you will get hundreds of people complaining and asking for it in pbt.
Then let the vocal minority complain. The above picture shows that hundreds could be a small percentage of potential buyers
Keep in mind that it's not actually 5,487 unique people buying full sets; they counted each set being sold as a "buyer" in that Granite R2 on MD. It was under 1,000 people buying in. Still not insignificant, but not nearly as large a number as it first appears.
Post by: jdcarpe on Sun, 15 February 2015, 12:13:27
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/rPJzPG8.png)
I don't think SP or MD expected the buy to reach anywhere near those quantities. R1 got like what, 400 buys?The pbt >>>>>>> abs hype train is all over massdrop. For sure you will get hundreds of people complaining and asking for it in pbt.
Then let the vocal minority complain. The above picture shows that hundreds could be a small percentage of potential buyers
Keep in mind that it's not actually 5,487 unique people buying full sets; they counted each set being sold as a "buyer" in that Granite R2 on MD. It was under 1,000 people buying in. Still not insignificant, but not nearly as large a number as it first appears.
Most of them from r/MK, because, you know, PBT.
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Sun, 15 February 2015, 12:22:43
Yeah, It was cringe worthy how so many posters over there were ridiculing Hyperfuse because of it being a "$100+ ABS Set." I don't understand why so many just assume PBT is always better.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/rPJzPG8.png)
I don't think SP or MD expected the buy to reach anywhere near those quantities. R1 got like what, 400 buys?The pbt >>>>>>> abs hype train is all over massdrop. For sure you will get hundreds of people complaining and asking for it in pbt.
Then let the vocal minority complain. The above picture shows that hundreds could be a small percentage of potential buyers
Keep in mind that it's not actually 5,487 unique people buying full sets; they counted each set being sold as a "buyer" in that Granite R2 on MD. It was under 1,000 people buying in. Still not insignificant, but not nearly as large a number as it first appears.
Most of them from r/MK, because, you know, PBT.
Post by: sethk_ on Sun, 15 February 2015, 12:24:53
Because of them poker 2 caps. I honestly like abs more because when it is worn a bit down, it feels grippy, I think most of them prefer PBT because abs gets super disgusting if you don't clean your caps, which I don't think they do.Yeah, It was cringe worthy how so many posters over there were ridiculing Hyperfuse because of it being a "$100+ ABS Set." I don't understand why so many just assume PBT is always better.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/rPJzPG8.png)
I don't think SP or MD expected the buy to reach anywhere near those quantities. R1 got like what, 400 buys?The pbt >>>>>>> abs hype train is all over massdrop. For sure you will get hundreds of people complaining and asking for it in pbt.
Then let the vocal minority complain. The above picture shows that hundreds could be a small percentage of potential buyers
Keep in mind that it's not actually 5,487 unique people buying full sets; they counted each set being sold as a "buyer" in that Granite R2 on MD. It was under 1,000 people buying in. Still not insignificant, but not nearly as large a number as it first appears.
Most of them from r/MK, because, you know, PBT.
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 19 February 2015, 15:22:25
https://www.massdrop.com/vote/triumph-adler-gmk-replica----cherry-mx-keycap-set-1?referer=KQJNA3#tab-voting
Final render:
(http://i.imgur.com/a8PWHX5.png)
Blog hype train linked in Massdrop poll, channeling Elrick / IT crowd: http://www.keychatter.com/2015/02/19/triumph-adler-gmk-group-buy-vote-on-massdrop-for-your-chance-to-own-the-rarest-and-sexiest-cherry-mx-keycap-set-ever/
And the Reddit thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/2wgybt/triumph_adler_gmk_group_buy_vote_on_massdrop_for/
Post by: MythicalWagyu on Thu, 19 February 2015, 15:31:20
Post by: Zeal on Thu, 19 February 2015, 15:33:07
Just kidding.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 19 February 2015, 15:36:08
Voted for fisher price keyboard.
Just kidding.
+1
I did vote for it :))
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Thu, 19 February 2015, 15:37:53
(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/592/962/6f3.gif)
Post by: JinDesu on Thu, 19 February 2015, 15:42:06
Post by: cooldiscretion on Thu, 19 February 2015, 15:43:44
Post by: slip84 on Thu, 19 February 2015, 15:47:39
Post by: strict on Thu, 19 February 2015, 15:51:11
Post by: billnye on Thu, 19 February 2015, 16:00:33
(http://i.imgur.com/jZKGwNB.png)
(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0490/7329/products/Dolch_Addon.JPG?v=1417083743)
Post by: exitfire401 on Thu, 19 February 2015, 16:02:24
Important to remember that GMK mockups are not_even_close to what the keys will look like in real life. I think the blue will look quite good :thumb:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/jZKGwNB.png)Show Image(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0490/7329/products/Dolch_Addon.JPG?v=1417083743)
Also important to note that they are color matching, and we should have correct color representations prior to the buy even opening.
Post by: CommonCurt on Thu, 19 February 2015, 16:05:42
Now all this thread needs is Elrick! Kudos on all the hard work done by you and everyone else involved Intelli, I'll definitely be ordering a set, and really hope this gets made!Show Image(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/592/962/6f3.gif)
I know. I was wondering why I haven't seen him in this thread.
Dat Fisher Price :))
Post by: Den441 on Thu, 19 February 2015, 16:08:40
Post by: skcheng on Thu, 19 February 2015, 16:09:01
*** only 75 votes so far??
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 19 February 2015, 16:12:01
Could also be that they don't have enough mainstream appeal - maybe the teal won't be a hit among casual enthusiasts. No matter though, I think we can still hit MOQ :thumb:
Post by: billnye on Thu, 19 February 2015, 16:13:25
Yeah. The fact that the reddit thread is floundering at 4-5 votes tells me that many folks do NOT understand the quality of these caps.SP master race
Could also be that they don't have enough mainstream appeal - maybe the teal won't be a hit among casual enthusiasts. No matter though, I think we can still hit MOQ :thumb:
Post by: whentheclouds on Thu, 19 February 2015, 16:16:52
Yeah. The fact that the reddit thread is floundering at 4-5 votes tells me that many folks do NOT understand the quality of these caps.no. it's because Cherry MX profile, ABS caps like these are inferior to DSA profile, PBT caps with centered legends..
good to see you sticking to your guns re: blue legends. here's hoping for the next great GMK gb!
Post by: skcheng on Thu, 19 February 2015, 16:17:06
Voted! So anxious for this I can barely stand it! This will very likely be my first GMK set.
It WON'T be your last!! Promise!!
Post by: sethk_ on Thu, 19 February 2015, 16:19:14
Post by: radio_killah on Thu, 19 February 2015, 16:56:26
Post by: cooldiscretion on Thu, 19 February 2015, 17:07:38
Important to remember that GMK mockups are not_even_close to what the keys will look like in real life. I think the blue will look quite good :thumb:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/jZKGwNB.png)Show Image(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0490/7329/products/Dolch_Addon.JPG?v=1417083743)
Those look identical to me. :p
But yeah, I was a little thrown off when the color pack for Dolch started showing up in pictures. Hopefully this set will turn out looking very similar
to the originals.
Post by: Joey Quinn on Thu, 19 February 2015, 17:10:04
Bump! Loaner caps have been procured for color matching / product photos. Working with Massdrop now, will have more news soon. In the meantime let's show support and gauge some numbers by voting in this Massdrop poll:
https://www.massdrop.com/vote/triumph-adler-gmk-replica----cherry-mx-keycap-set-1?referer=KQJNA3#tab-voting
Final render:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/a8PWHX5.png)
Blog hype train linked in Massdrop poll, channeling Elrick / IT crowd: http://www.keychatter.com/2015/02/19/triumph-adler-gmk-group-buy-vote-on-massdrop-for-your-chance-to-own-the-rarest-and-sexiest-cherry-mx-keycap-set-ever/
And the Reddit thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/2wgybt/triumph_adler_gmk_group_buy_vote_on_massdrop_for/
Voted, any chance of a 1u 0 for the numpad?
Post by: FrostyToast on Thu, 19 February 2015, 17:11:12
Maybe we could reach 200 votes by the end of the day!
I really do hope that we get those 500 orders. Let's hope that people realise GMK ABS is better than mostly all of the PBT crap that they buy.
Also, to answer to the questionable mockups from GMK:
Yes, they are ****e. Very ****e. Looks like they were using f.lux or something while they were making them. :p
However, since this is a replica set and the teal will match, the actual pictures of the original TA set should give people a far better representation of what we are looking at.
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 19 February 2015, 17:11:12
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 19 February 2015, 17:11:54
Voted, any chance of a 1u 0 for the numpad?
Thanks for vote
0% chance :p sorry
Post by: FrostyToast on Thu, 19 February 2015, 17:14:09
Voted, any chance of a 1u 0 for the numpad?
Thanks for vote
0% chance :p sorry
I really do appreciate this attitude regarding this set.
Guys. We don't need unpopular keys that are used on uncommon boards.
You won't die from using a standardized layout. There is a reason why those layouts are standard.
This attitude is exactly why the numbers given to us for the price of this set were so surprisingly low.
Post by: Joey Quinn on Thu, 19 February 2015, 17:23:29
Voted, any chance of a 1u 0 for the numpad?
Thanks for vote
0% chance :p sorry
Ok, I'm buying it either way, I'll just use a blank. Thanks for the quick answer. :))
I really do appreciate this attitude regarding this set.
Guys. We don't need unpopular keys that are used on uncommon boards.
You won't die from using a standardized layout. There is a reason why those layouts are standard.
This attitude is exactly why the numbers given to us for the price of this set were so surprisingly low.
Yo Bro I just asked because I'm using this on my Lightsaver which happens to have a 1u 0, no need to get mad. It was just a question.
Post by: Sygaldry on Thu, 19 February 2015, 17:40:24
Post by: FrostyToast on Thu, 19 February 2015, 17:44:31
Sorry if you thought I was being on edge.Voted, any chance of a 1u 0 for the numpad?I really do appreciate this attitude regarding this set.
Guys. We don't need unpopular keys that are used on uncommon boards.
You won't die from using a standardized layout. There is a reason why those layouts are standard.
This attitude is exactly why the numbers given to us for the price of this set were so surprisingly low.
Yo Bro I just asked because I'm using this on my Lightsaver which happens to have a 1u 0, no need to get mad. It was just a question.
I'm cool with people who want these sorts of caps because I myself like less standard layouts like the "Happy" style layout. Split spacebars are also ballin even though they are one of the most non-standard things out there.
It's just that with this particular set, being a custom colour, it's nice that there were cutbacks.
Post by: Joey Quinn on Thu, 19 February 2015, 17:50:18
I really do appreciate this attitude regarding this set.
Guys. We don't need unpopular keys that are used on uncommon boards.
You won't die from using a standardized layout. There is a reason why those layouts are standard.
This attitude is exactly why the numbers given to us for the price of this set were so surprisingly low.
Yo Bro I just asked because I'm using this on my Lightsaver which happens to have a 1u 0, no need to get mad. It was just a question.
Sorry if you thought I was being on edge.
I'm cool with people who want these sorts of caps because I myself like less standard layouts like the "Happy" style layout. Split spacebars are also ballin even though they are one of the most non-standard things out there.
It's just that with this particular set, being a custom colour, it's nice that there were cutbacks.
It's cool. Hell even if this set was useless to me I'd probably buy it because it is badass. Even now I'm trying to figure out if I can afford two to help meet MOQ.
Post by: monotagary on Thu, 19 February 2015, 18:15:03
This is a once in a lifetime opportunity, and here we are, on the cusp of making this a reality. Let's bring these keycaps into existence, and spread the greatness that will be GMK Triumph Adler.
Post by: exitfire401 on Thu, 19 February 2015, 18:18:40
Voted and I absolutely cannot express how much I want, no, how much I need, how much the COMMUNITY, needs these keys to be produced.
This is a once in a lifetime opportunity, and here we are, on the cusp of making this a reality. Let's bring these keycaps into existence, and spread the greatness that will be GMK Triumph Adler.
Agreed. This and GMK Hyperfuse need to be near me ASAP.
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 19 February 2015, 18:19:58
Post by: calvinhousecat on Thu, 19 February 2015, 18:21:48
Post by: JinDesu on Thu, 19 February 2015, 18:24:27
Post by: hking0036 on Thu, 19 February 2015, 18:32:59
Post by: whentheclouds on Thu, 19 February 2015, 18:39:23
You got Ripster's support in the Reddit thread. Sort of. Not sure if good or bad =pmomentous gbs like this one transcend petty drama :)
Post by: Joey Quinn on Thu, 19 February 2015, 18:47:16
200th vote! It looks great, shame I can't get on it though.
That was fast, the community really wants this set.
Post by: exitfire401 on Thu, 19 February 2015, 18:48:53
200th vote! It looks great, shame I can't get on it though.
That was fast, the community really wants this set.
This makes me happy.
Post by: Joey Quinn on Thu, 19 February 2015, 18:50:00
200th vote! It looks great, shame I can't get on it though.
That was fast, the community really wants this set.
This makes me happy.
Same, I was crushed when we thought the MOQ would be crazy and the price would be insane.
Post by: JinDesu on Thu, 19 February 2015, 19:00:23
You got Ripster's support in the Reddit thread. Sort of. Not sure if good or bad =pmomentous gbs like this one transcend petty drama :)
Very well put!
Post by: Belfong on Thu, 19 February 2015, 19:05:14
To clarify, should this happen, are we supposed to order from massdrop?
Post by: dimmu on Thu, 19 February 2015, 19:09:47
You got Ripster's support in the Reddit thread. Sort of. Not sure if good or bad =p
my assholish comment seems to have worked that he even had to reply to it ~
the thread was sitting at 4 upvotes for over an hour then suddenly hit 30. it's funny how this groupbuy, which almost failed the first few weeks of interest check is now uniting GH and r/mk/ together for a common cause!
Post by: slip84 on Thu, 19 February 2015, 19:17:35
I hate you a little for making sign up for Massdrop. I'll just pretend it doesn't exist until the set comes around.
Post by: Sygaldry on Thu, 19 February 2015, 19:27:09
Already in for 1-2 Hyperfuse and I've been eyeing the GMK Dolch for a while (thankfully I can't quite afford a $200 set of keys right now), and now this?!
I might as well just have all my future paychecks sent to Germany. :'(
Post by: pr0ximity on Thu, 19 February 2015, 19:55:19
Post by: HebrewHammer on Thu, 19 February 2015, 20:15:56
Post by: tjweir on Thu, 19 February 2015, 20:27:32
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Thu, 19 February 2015, 21:44:27
Post by: sethk_ on Thu, 19 February 2015, 21:48:07
Post by: slickmamba on Thu, 19 February 2015, 22:04:26
Post by: sethk_ on Thu, 19 February 2015, 22:18:43
I guess we will find out massdrops markup through this, haha.I hope not more than 10 dollars, but they will probably have a nice markdown price for themselves, but still charge us like 135
Post by: monotagary on Thu, 19 February 2015, 22:24:50
I guess we will find out massdrops markup through this, haha.I hope not more than 10 dollars, but they will probably have a nice markdown price for themselves, but still charge us like 135
Eh... As long as we get TA. That is all that matters.
Post by: morpheus on Thu, 19 February 2015, 22:25:50
Now all this thread needs is Elrick! Kudos on all the hard work done by you and everyone else involved Intelli, I'll definitely be ordering a set, and really hope this gets made!Show Image(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/592/962/6f3.gif)
Hahahahahahaha
thanks for this gif sir!
Post by: Heliosphere on Thu, 19 February 2015, 23:06:01
Post by: luckyryan333 on Thu, 19 February 2015, 23:25:41
Post by: MythicalWagyu on Thu, 19 February 2015, 23:27:55
Frankly I'm more bothered by the tax us Californians will have to pay with Massdrop, but I'm getting a set regardless.Not nearly as painful as it's going to be for the international orders that are gonna get hosed on shipping and import duties. TA needs to happen though, so I'm happy to suck it up on the taxes.
Post by: Chemisery on Thu, 19 February 2015, 23:39:38
Post by: sethk_ on Thu, 19 February 2015, 23:41:56
There could be someone to proxy.Frankly I'm more bothered by the tax us Californians will have to pay with Massdrop, but I'm getting a set regardless.Not nearly as painful as it's going to be for the international orders that are gonna get hosed on shipping and import duties. TA needs to happen though, so I'm happy to suck it up on the taxes.
Post by: pr0ximity on Fri, 20 February 2015, 06:29:57
Post by: bueller on Fri, 20 February 2015, 06:32:15
Well at 500 votes in a day I think we have Massdrop's attention.
Wait till they see the price, that will change. You'll get a million people going "$100+ for a set that's not PBT?!?!?!". Bunch of plebs wouldn't have a clue, they think PBT is the second coming of christ over there for some reason.
Post by: pr0ximity on Fri, 20 February 2015, 06:32:55
I'll try and stay optimistic.Well at 500 votes in a day I think we have Massdrop's attention.
Wait till they see the price, that will change. You'll get a million people going "$100+ for a set that's not PBT?!?!?!". Bunch of plebs wouldn't have a clue, they think PBT is the second coming of christ over there for some reason.
Post by: bueller on Fri, 20 February 2015, 06:33:49
I'll try and stay optimistic.Well at 500 votes in a day I think we have Massdrop's attention.
Wait till they see the price, that will change. You'll get a million people going "$100+ for a set that's not PBT?!?!?!". Bunch of plebs wouldn't have a clue, they think PBT is the second coming of christ over there for some reason.
So am I, I want a set too :)
Post by: greath on Fri, 20 February 2015, 08:02:10
Post by: ideus on Fri, 20 February 2015, 08:16:30
Are people buying at MD keyboard conausiers? this drop for a GMK made set will test that question.
Post by: monotagary on Fri, 20 February 2015, 08:20:54
I'm still just a bit confused about the mock up and sorry if this has been answered before, but will the text color on the alphas match the color on the modifiers? Did the text color on the alphas match the modifiers on the original TA keycaps?
No the legends will be a crisp blue to match the original TA caps.
Post by: boost on Fri, 20 February 2015, 08:27:57
Post by: lionblinds on Fri, 20 February 2015, 08:45:31
Post by: radio_killah on Fri, 20 February 2015, 09:45:57
I know lekashman the guy who is in charge of the mechanical keyboard stuff at massdrop is a pretty avid enthusiast but I doubt that the general massdrop user is. Just wait soon reddit and the massdrop forum for the TA keyset will be filled with stupid pbt quotes.
Are people buying at MD keyboard conausiers? this drop for a GMK made set will test that question.
An idea maybe for intelli to post something on keychatter about dispelling the myth that pbt is better. Maybe then we can really educate some plebs.
Post by: Sniping on Fri, 20 February 2015, 09:54:33
Post by: drewba on Fri, 20 February 2015, 11:49:23
At 691 current votes it looks like this is going to happen ;)
Post by: Sygaldry on Fri, 20 February 2015, 14:49:00
I wanna know who Lekashman is on GH (if he is even on here). He seems more like a DT kind of guy to me though.I know lekashman the guy who is in charge of the mechanical keyboard stuff at massdrop is a pretty avid enthusiast but I doubt that the general massdrop user is. Just wait soon reddit and the massdrop forum for the TA keyset will be filled with stupid pbt quotes.
Are people buying at MD keyboard conausiers? this drop for a GMK made set will test that question.
An idea maybe for intelli to post something on keychatter about dispelling the myth that pbt is better. Maybe then we can really educate some plebs.
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Fri, 20 February 2015, 14:50:49
He has an account here under his last name, but I don't think I've ever seen him post. Can't speak for DT though..I wanna know who Lekashman is on GH (if he is even on here). He seems more like a DT kind of guy to me though.I know lekashman the guy who is in charge of the mechanical keyboard stuff at massdrop is a pretty avid enthusiast but I doubt that the general massdrop user is. Just wait soon reddit and the massdrop forum for the TA keyset will be filled with stupid pbt quotes.
Are people buying at MD keyboard conausiers? this drop for a GMK made set will test that question.
An idea maybe for intelli to post something on keychatter about dispelling the myth that pbt is better. Maybe then we can really educate some plebs.
Post by: FrostyToast on Fri, 20 February 2015, 14:52:35
All I know is that Hwood got a funny PM from his GH account. :))
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 20 February 2015, 14:53:07
I learned PBT > ABS (as a generality/preference) here on GH
Whether you (not specifically you, drewba, "you" generally) pick up on the hype that PBT > ABS here, on reddit, at DT, or wherever, it's wrong. You need to decide for yourself what you like, rather than blindly take someone else's word for it. Keycap feel preference is a very subjective and personal choice.
Post by: mashby on Fri, 20 February 2015, 14:55:28
Does GMK have a mold for the Apple Command key (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_key)?
Post by: FrostyToast on Fri, 20 February 2015, 14:55:32
I know that I did pick that up from GH as well, however now I don't see as much of that being tossed around here.
Maybe it's just because I got more active that I noticed less PBT hype or maybe it's that all of the posters around at that time just got more knowledgeable as well.
Post by: pesky brat on Fri, 20 February 2015, 15:26:54
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 20 February 2015, 15:28:52
I think the problem is when people hear ABS they just automatically assume thin ABS caps that come with a lot of boards (Filco, QFR, etc.) and have not tried better ones like GMK.
That's probably part of it. Do those people realize that some keyboards come with thin PBT caps, such as the Poker II and Keycool, and those caps also suck?
Post by: billnye on Fri, 20 February 2015, 15:29:01
Not asking for a change to the Group Buy this late in the process, I'm simply curious if anyone knows.Not that I'm aware of. They can, however, set up new legends for pad print for something like $20. They did say that their catalog of legends is 200 pages though :eek:
Does GMK have a mold for the Apple Command key (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_key)?
Post by: drewba on Fri, 20 February 2015, 15:43:05
Well of course, I can't disagree with that. I'm also not blaming any geekhacker for suggesting that PBT is superior to ABS (in their opinion). I'm still a noob but I've purchased a bunch of keysets to figure out my own preference. My point is that if we need the entire keyboard community to get involved to make TA happen, we shouldn't be disparaging to other communities. IMHO we shouldn't be doing that anyway, but especially not when we need their vote & wallet to meet MOQ. Maybe I'm a hippie but it seems counter productive and mean spirited.I learned PBT > ABS (as a generality/preference) here on GH
Whether you (not specifically you, drewba, "you" generally) pick up on the hype that PBT > ABS here, on reddit, at DT, or wherever, it's wrong. You need to decide for yourself what you like, rather than blindly take someone else's word for it. Keycap feel preference is a very subjective and personal choice.
Post by: mashby on Fri, 20 February 2015, 16:05:14
Not asking for a change to the Group Buy this late in the process, I'm simply curious if anyone knows.Not that I'm aware of. They can, however, set up new legends for pad print for something like $20. They did say that their catalog of legends is 200 pages though :eek:
Does GMK have a mold for the Apple Command key (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_key)?
billnye -- thanks for the reply. I wonder if it's possible to get a new mold made like it is at SP?
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 20 February 2015, 16:09:10
Not asking for a change to the Group Buy this late in the process, I'm simply curious if anyone knows.Not that I'm aware of. They can, however, set up new legends for pad print for something like $20. They did say that their catalog of legends is 200 pages though :eek:
Does GMK have a mold for the Apple Command key (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_key)?
billnye -- thanks for the reply. I wonder if it's possible to get a new mold made like it is at SP?
GMK has said they won't be cutting new legends.
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Fri, 20 February 2015, 16:10:50
I was using the Miami set for awhile and didn't have any issues with the ABS caps. I recently picked up a Poker II, and I miss those ABS caps. I'm not sure what it is, but the Pokers PBT caps just feel like junk.I think the problem is when people hear ABS they just automatically assume thin ABS caps that come with a lot of boards (Filco, QFR, etc.) and have not tried better ones like GMK.
That's probably part of it. Do those people realize that some keyboards come with thin PBT caps, such as the Poker II and Keycool, and those caps also suck?
Post by: ideus on Fri, 20 February 2015, 16:10:54
I learned PBT > ABS (as a generality/preference) here on GH
Whether you (not specifically you, drewba, "you" generally) pick up on the hype that PBT > ABS here, on reddit, at DT, or wherever, it's wrong. You need to decide for yourself what you like, rather than blindly take someone else's word for it. Keycap feel preference is a very subjective and personal choice.
What you learnt was just the people repeating a mantra. Check by yourself, but be aware thickness and profile will make a great difference also.
Post by: mashby on Fri, 20 February 2015, 16:11:18
GMK has said they won't be cutting new legends.
Balderdash!
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 20 February 2015, 16:17:38
I learned PBT > ABS (as a generality/preference) here on GH
Whether you (not specifically you, drewba, "you" generally) pick up on the hype that PBT > ABS here, on reddit, at DT, or wherever, it's wrong. You need to decide for yourself what you like, rather than blindly take someone else's word for it. Keycap feel preference is a very subjective and personal choice.
What you learnt was just the people repeating a mantra. Check by yourself, but be aware thickness and profile will make a great difference also.
Groupthink. Is Oceania at war with Eurasia this month? Or is it Eastasia? It must be Eastasia, and thus it has always been at war with Eastasia, and never with Eurasia.
Post by: geniekid on Fri, 20 February 2015, 16:31:39
My point is that if we need the entire keyboard community to get involved to make TA happen, we shouldn't be disparaging to other communities. IMHO we shouldn't be doing that anyway, but especially not when we need their vote & wallet to meet MOQ.
I agree with your sentiment and with jdcarpe's as well. Saying "GMK ABS > PBT" is just as bad as saying "PBT > ABS". Better to focus on convincing as many people as possible to try it out and judge for themselves as opposed to just telling them they're wrong.
Post by: stoic-lemon on Fri, 20 February 2015, 18:11:10
Some replies in here are straight up rude. I wish people would take the time to educate & spread the word about this set/GMK quality instead of spew judgmental negativity. Maybe I was reading the wrong threads, but I learned PBT > ABS (as a generality/preference) here on GH. I bought Hyperfuse based on glowing feedback & information from Elrick, Binge & Intelli. Had those guys not taken the time, or called me a pleb instead I probably would have lost interest.
At 691 current votes it looks like this is going to happen ;)
Totally agree. Although to be fair Elrick is pretty vocal about noobs/kids spoiling all the GB's because they want Fisher Price. I find some of the comments slagging off Reddit and Massdrop rather silly and very counterproductive, but people like to feel superior.
Post by: Heliosphere on Fri, 20 February 2015, 18:11:31
He has an account here under his last name, but I don't think I've ever seen him post. Can't speak for DT though..I wanna know who Lekashman is on GH (if he is even on here). He seems more like a DT kind of guy to me though.I know lekashman the guy who is in charge of the mechanical keyboard stuff at massdrop is a pretty avid enthusiast but I doubt that the general massdrop user is. Just wait soon reddit and the massdrop forum for the TA keyset will be filled with stupid pbt quotes.
Are people buying at MD keyboard conausiers? this drop for a GMK made set will test that question.
An idea maybe for intelli to post something on keychatter about dispelling the myth that pbt is better. Maybe then we can really educate some plebs.
Andrew Lekashman shows up to most of our Bay Area GH monthly meetups. He's a nice guy and definitely a dedicated keyboard enthusiast.
Post by: Giorgio on Mon, 23 February 2015, 07:46:01
Since the sets are built in Germany, is there any chance that we find a person in Europe willing to deliver the sets to the european geekhackers?
Also it would be nice to have some blank keys (sold in sets of 4, one for each row) for all those in need of a language pack: a blank key is better than a wrong key.
Post by: ideus on Mon, 23 February 2015, 07:58:08
Why do we have to rely on massdrop?
Since the sets are built in Germany, is there any chance that we find a person in Europe willing to deliver the sets to the european geekhackers?
Also it would be nice to have some blank keys (sold in sets of 4, one for each row) for all those in need of a language pack: a blank key is better than a wrong key.
The motivation for MD involvement was the volume of orders required to reach GMK MoQs. It will increased the cost of the set, and the shipping cost. In other words, is the cost to pay to get the set actually manufactured.
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 23 February 2015, 10:23:35
Why do we have to rely on massdrop?
Since the sets are built in Germany, is there any chance that we find a person in Europe willing to deliver the sets to the european geekhackers?
Also it would be nice to have some blank keys (sold in sets of 4, one for each row) for all those in need of a language pack: a blank key is better than a wrong key.
The motivation for MD involvement was the volume of orders required to reach GMK MoQs. It will increased the cost of the set, and the shipping cost. In other words, is the cost to pay to get the set actually manufactured.
In hopes that it will actually get manufactured, if run by Massdrop.
If not run by Massdrop, the MOQ of 500 for a custom color is probably unreachable.
Post by: ideus on Mon, 23 February 2015, 10:36:54
Why do we have to rely on massdrop?
Since the sets are built in Germany, is there any chance that we find a person in Europe willing to deliver the sets to the european geekhackers?
Also it would be nice to have some blank keys (sold in sets of 4, one for each row) for all those in need of a language pack: a blank key is better than a wrong key.
The motivation for MD involvement was the volume of orders required to reach GMK MoQs. It will increased the cost of the set, and the shipping cost. In other words, is the cost to pay to get the set actually manufactured.
In hopes that it will actually get manufactured, if run by Massdrop.
If not run by Massdrop, the MOQ of 500 for a custom color is probably unreachable.
Yes sir. In this condition MD is a necessary evil.
Post by: intelli78 on Mon, 23 February 2015, 12:34:45
It will increased the cost of the set, and the shipping cost. In other words, is the cost to pay to get the set actually manufactured.
Massdrop actually has pretty reasonable margins, and keep in mind, if they can blast through to 1000 orders, the cost per participant will probably be lower than if we hadn't used Massdrop at all.
Post by: ideus on Mon, 23 February 2015, 12:48:12
It will increased the cost of the set, and the shipping cost. In other words, is the cost to pay to get the set actually manufactured.
Massdrop actually has pretty reasonable margins, and keep in mind, if they can blast through to 1000 orders, the cost per participant will probably be lower than if we hadn't used Massdrop at all.
Only time will tell. Only people joining will know.
Post by: intelli78 on Mon, 23 February 2015, 13:50:22
Post by: heedpantsnow on Mon, 23 February 2015, 13:56:12
Update: Just spoke with Massdrop and we are good to go! They were floored by the voting response and this set will be going live as soon as everything is in place with GMK & the color samples. Stay tuned...
Cool. Thanks for your hard work!
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 23 February 2015, 14:01:18
Update: Just spoke with Massdrop and we are good to go! They were floored by the voting response and this set will be going live as soon as everything is in place with GMK & the color samples. Stay tuned...
YESSSSS
This is great news, thank you for pushing through with this IC/GB and not giving up. Obviously it's not over yet, but this is further than I think many of us suspected we would make it. :)
Also, there's no need to bash Massdrop in this thread. Without them stepping in here, this might have died, but now we have a chance! ;D
Post by: slip84 on Mon, 23 February 2015, 14:04:16
And any perceived bashing of MD by me is more for the sake of my wallet. I have purposely not joined since first hearing of it to save myself the pain of being a member.
Post by: Zeal on Mon, 23 February 2015, 14:04:33
Update: Just spoke with Massdrop and we are good to go! They were floored by the voting response and this set will be going live as soon as everything is in place with GMK & the color samples. Stay tuned...
Has the final packaging been finalized yet? Plastic trays & presorted?
Post by: Coconut on Mon, 23 February 2015, 14:14:07
The update says the legends are teal, but the final render has blue legends, which is it?
Post by: FrostyToast on Mon, 23 February 2015, 14:15:32
I'm confused :<
The update says the legends are teal, but the final render has blue legends, which is it?
The legends SHOULD be blue.
That was what we finally decided on if I recall correctly.
Post by: Joey Quinn on Mon, 23 February 2015, 14:33:32
I'm confused :<
The update says the legends are teal, but the final render has blue legends, which is it?
The legends SHOULD be blue.
That was what we finally decided on if I recall correctly.
I'm pretty sure Blue was the final choice.
Post by: LechnerDE on Mon, 23 February 2015, 15:19:23
Update: Just spoke with Massdrop and we are good to go! They were floored by the voting response and this set will be going live as soon as everything is in place with GMK & the color samples. Stay tuned...
Awwwwwww ****!
This set is so good! Thanks for all the efforts you already put into this GB :thumb:
I really hope this will be a huge sucess !
Post by: intelli78 on Mon, 23 February 2015, 15:21:42
(http://i.imgur.com/wIPPfmO.png)
I got these by extensively color sampling and averaging the best TA photos I could find on the web.
GMK wants to color match off a real object, not a digital file, so I am printing many versions of these colors with slight adjustments to account for the inevitable differences in the printed swatches vs. what I see on my MBP Retina screen. I will cherry pick the swatches that look best to me. I'm picking up all the samples from the printers tonight, so I'll post some photos and try to get the white balance as close as possible so you guys can see what we are using.
Keep in mind colors vary a crap load on screens, for MANY reasons.
NOTE: Right now we are only guaranteed to get the teal matched. They MAY be willing to color match either the gray alpha base or the blue for legends -- if possible, we will match these, that's why I am sending them -- but it's not in stone yet. We may end up using the closest stock colors for the gray alphas and blue legends.
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 23 February 2015, 15:24:53
GMK wants to color match off a real object, not a digital file
So you are sending them plastic to color match?
Post by: intelli78 on Mon, 23 February 2015, 15:25:18
GMK wants to color match off a real object, not a digital file
So you are sending them plastic to color match?
Printed swatches.
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 23 February 2015, 15:26:48
GMK wants to color match off a real object, not a digital file
So you are sending them plastic to color match?
Printed swatches.
Oh, okay. So you are printing the color swatches, matching those to the plastic, and then sending them the best swatch samples to match. Gotcha :thumb:
Post by: intelli78 on Mon, 23 February 2015, 16:01:04
Oh, okay. So you are printing the color swatches, matching those to the plastic, and then sending them the best swatch samples to match. Gotcha :thumb:
Basically... there are kind of a lot of moving parts here, so let me try to explain...
First, my priority isn't necessarily getting as close as possible to the loaner set, though -- it's to get close to the photos in OP. The loaner set, pictured below, has more beige than gray alphas. Not all of the sets aged the same, and the loaner set unfortunately isn't the set in OP.
(http://i.imgur.com/82YcoTS.jpg)
I'm aiming for this which I think is more attractive. It's a subtle difference but I do think it's more attractive.
(http://i.imgur.com/xdytuUb.jpg)
So I will send GMK the swatches that are closest to how that looks on my Retina display computer screen (factory calibrated). Then, when the loaner caps arrive at Massdrop they'll do a photo shoot and color-adjust the final photos to better reflect how the colors in the reproduction will look, based on what I've sent GMK, and whether we can get them to agree to color match everything. Like I said it remains to be seen whether we'll get more colors than the teal matched. It will be awesome if they let us use custom colors for everything but it's TBD.
If it turns out we can ONLY get a single custom color (the teal), we may need to change plans, though. I've been using 2B in the GMK renders, but based on the latest color ring photo from them, I'm not liking 2B much. It's too dark and too blue. U9 looks like the best alternative to me - it's kind of in between the gray and the beige TA alphas.
(http://i.imgur.com/NFN6k2q.jpg)
So the tl;dr is, I hope they can color match every single color to my swatches, but if not, probably we will do custom teal with U9 base and V4 legends.
As far as the Massdrop photos go, it is an imperfect solution. We'll be able to Photoshop the photos to approximate the colors we're actually using, but it's still a funky winkeyless set. I wanted to just ask Josh for rights to his photos (ones in OP) instead of ****ing around with a custom shoot and finding loaner caps at all, but Massdrop really wanted to do a custom shoot. *shrug* The custom shoot will give us higher quality photos but doesn't solve the problem of the layout being wrong. I don't really see a better option though. We can try to force GMK to produce a single test set to photograph but I'm pretty sure they aren't gonna go for it, because they have MOQs themselves for all the plastics they'll have to order for the color matching.
Feel free to ask questions if unclear... am open to suggestions about how to do this a better way if possible...
Post by: Heliosphere on Mon, 23 February 2015, 16:30:13
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 23 February 2015, 16:38:44
Post by: intelli78 on Mon, 23 February 2015, 16:40:03
Ideally, we could get three custom colors for the set, mod base, alpha base, and alpha legends.
Yep, that's what I am working on.
Post by: strict on Mon, 23 February 2015, 18:41:56
Ideally, we could get three custom colors for the set, mod base, alpha base, and alpha legends.
Yep, that's what I am working on.
If that works out
(https://i.imgur.com/IClTkRd.gif)
Post by: shawn o on Mon, 23 February 2015, 21:40:35
Post by: ideus on Mon, 23 February 2015, 21:44:12
I've always thought that green/blue color on the keys matched the text color on the white/grey keys? Looks that way in every pic I've seen.
It was explained several times: The blue on the mods washed out over time in old TA sets.
Post by: dimmu on Tue, 24 February 2015, 02:26:57
Post by: bueller on Tue, 24 February 2015, 02:29:57
I've always thought that green/blue color on the keys matched the text color on the white/grey keys? Looks that way in every pic I've seen.
It was explained several times: The blue on the mods washed out over time in old TA sets.
I'll wait and see how the mockup looks when GMK get back to us about custom colours but I feel like it's going to look weird having two different shades of blue. Would have thought the mods and alphas yellowed at a similar rate.
Post by: Den441 on Tue, 24 February 2015, 05:44:57
I've always thought that green/blue color on the keys matched the text color on the white/grey keys? Looks that way in every pic I've seen.
It was explained several times: The blue on the mods washed out over time in old TA sets.
I'll wait and see how the mockup looks when GMK get back to us about custom colours but I feel like it's going to look weird having two different shades of blue. Would have thought the mods and alphas yellowed at a similar rate.
It is true that the mods seemed to age more for some reason, but the original boards did in fact use two different blues. The blue used on the alpha legends was different than the blue used for the mods on the original boards. Originally, the blue used for the legends was actually the same blue as the olivetti g80 legends. This can be verified by looking at the TA keyboards' case labels which did not seem to age like the caps. I always thought two custom colors would be ideal because of this....though I did not think it was possible until recently with the surge of interest. Exciting times.
Post by: Moralless on Tue, 24 February 2015, 05:57:47
Update: Just spoke with Massdrop and we are good to go! They were floored by the voting response and this set will be going live as soon as everything is in place with GMK & the color samples. Stay tuned...
Wow that's great news! This will definitely be the first item that I plan to get on massdrop! Interested to experience the shipping horror stories first hand :p
Post by: intelli78 on Wed, 25 February 2015, 01:04:07
Remember, we really have to look at the photographs, not the renders to get an accurate idea, but I think the renders are still helpful for visualizing the relative lightness or darkness of the tones.
Thoughts? It's less like the OP pics, more like the sample set. I still prefer the gray but lighter is not bad at all.
(http://i.imgur.com/belDGEK.png)
Post by: FrostyToast on Wed, 25 February 2015, 01:05:24
Hey guys, wanted to show you a render with U9...
Remember, we really have to look at the photographs, not the renders to get an accurate idea, but I think the renders are still helpful for visualizing the relative lightness or darkness of the tones.
Thoughts? It's less like the OP pics, more like the sample set. I still prefer the gray but lighter is not bad at all.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/belDGEK.png)
I think this is adequate. Although I have learned that GMK is really bad with renders.
Post by: intelli78 on Wed, 25 February 2015, 01:08:25
(http://i.imgur.com/NFN6k2q.jpg)
If we can't get a custom color, I think it's between U9 and 2B, and of those, I think U9 is the safer choice (and it's actually growing on me, it looks like a pretty good complement to the teal). I wish there were a gray like 2B but slightly lighter.
Does anybody have these keys in their possession? I should have requested some at the beginning... seems they are very slow to dispatch samples.
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 25 February 2015, 01:12:24
(http://i.imgur.com/Cuzfkm0.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/4juBUqD.jpg)
I think 3K is technically a beige even though I lumped it with the greys. 2M is a really nice and light grey. Colorwise, midway between 2B and 2M is probably where the original would be.
Post by: FrostyToast on Wed, 25 February 2015, 01:13:35
Post by: exitfire401 on Wed, 25 February 2015, 01:14:36
Post by: Heliosphere on Wed, 25 February 2015, 01:16:07
Post by: intelli78 on Wed, 25 February 2015, 01:27:43
I scanned them in for another IC:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Cuzfkm0.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/4juBUqD.jpg)
I think 3K is technically a beige even though I lumped it with the greys. 2M is a really nice and light grey. Colorwise, midway between 2B and 2M is probably where the original would be.
That's super helpful, thank you Nubbinator.
I agree that 2B is the closest to the OP photo set. Though, it is still unclear to me how true to life those photos really are. I suspect there may be some color balance or other shenanigans making them look grayer than reality. For example, I believe this is the same exact keyboard, and here the alphas look more yellow:
(http://i.imgur.com/KdfbbQj.jpg)
In the above photo, and in other TA sets like the Massdrop loaner set below,
(http://i.imgur.com/82YcoTS.jpg)
the alphas look closest to U9. Contrary to Heliosphere's opinion, I actually think a slight yellow tint DOES complement the teal, and arguably gives the whole set more depth than a more monotone gray. There's something about the interaction between the very slight yellow, the blue legends, and the teal, that I think works. I have had my heart set on the gray version since the beginning, but since re-discovering U9 it's definitely growing on me.
tough call...
Post by: FrostyToast on Wed, 25 February 2015, 01:31:54
I was actually planning on buying a yellowed set of alphas just to use with these mods.
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 25 February 2015, 01:34:09
While not perfect, these should give you a rough idea:
2B
(http://i.imgur.com/aiIoEqq.png)
U9
(http://i.imgur.com/4Yd2KkS.png)
2M
(http://i.imgur.com/cm19GmA.png)
3K
(http://i.imgur.com/YSJs6q7.png)
CP
(http://i.imgur.com/ducmidB.png)
L9
(http://i.imgur.com/MRbSvtp.png)
UN0001
(http://i.imgur.com/jKlvIpb.png)
Post by: intelli78 on Wed, 25 February 2015, 01:37:55
U9 is basically Cherry Modifier color. I wouldn't be a fan. It really doesn't look good at all to me, but that's my opinion. Personally, I think 2M is a better choice.
While not perfect, these should give you a rough idea:
2BShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/aiIoEqq.png)
U9Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/4Yd2KkS.png)
2MShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/cm19GmA.png)
3KShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/YSJs6q7.png)
CPShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/ducmidB.png)
L9Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/MRbSvtp.png)
UN0001Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/jKlvIpb.png)
Thanks for the mockups... I have to say, in my opinion, these confirm it's 2B or U9. 2M with the teal modifiers isn't bad, it's just definitely not Triumph Adler IMO.
Edit: Also, while the legends are pretty thin on these mockups, the 2B mockup makes me nervous about the contrast with dark blue legends. From your scans the situation looks better but it's still hard to tell. Cherry legends are thicker than these mockups but it's hard to know what the end result will really look like. It would not be good to pick 2B and have terrible legend contrast.
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 25 February 2015, 01:43:46
Legend contrast should be fine with 2B.
Post by: luckyryan333 on Wed, 25 February 2015, 01:52:30
Post by: Heliosphere on Wed, 25 February 2015, 01:53:41
(http://i.imgur.com/pxUPPdt.jpg)
versus
(http://i.imgur.com/o7qtEPj.jpg)
Post by: jonathanyu on Wed, 25 February 2015, 01:55:41
Post by: Den441 on Wed, 25 February 2015, 02:39:37
Post by: Heliosphere on Wed, 25 February 2015, 03:00:50
Post by: morpheus on Wed, 25 February 2015, 08:34:13
Post by: whentheclouds on Wed, 25 February 2015, 08:38:35
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 25 February 2015, 08:56:17
Those photos of the classic TA sets both have crap white balance.
What's wrong with 2M or 3K?
Post by: strict on Wed, 25 February 2015, 08:58:03
If I had to pick from only those choices, I think either 2B or 2M is the way to go, 2B being the better of the two. If we could get a custom color about half way in between 2B and 2M that would be perfect in my opinion.
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 25 February 2015, 08:59:34
If we could get a custom color about half way in between 2B and 2M that would be perfect in my opinion.
^ This.
Post by: bueller on Wed, 25 February 2015, 09:01:57
Post by: bazh on Wed, 25 February 2015, 09:07:27
btw,I don't like (or, I hate) the brown-ish grey U9 so much...
Post by: intelli78 on Wed, 25 February 2015, 09:11:41
Sorry if this has been answered before but has GMK confirmed that only 1 custom color is available?No. I am waiting to find out if we can get all custom colors. This discussion is about Plan B.
Post by: intelli78 on Wed, 25 February 2015, 09:16:35
What's wrong with 2M or 3K?
Nothing is "wrong" with them, but they are not even remotely close to the real caps. Those would just be Feng's cyan set with darker teal mods, not Triumph Adler.
Also PSA: U9 is the modifier color on Classic beige, Olivetti, etc.
The halfway between 2b and 2M, that is an idea with promise. I assume that would be easy for them to make, too, since they have both colors in stock. I'm not sure how the mixing process works, but I assumr iy just be mixing the two granulates 50/50, much easier than trying to match a completely new color
Post by: bueller on Wed, 25 February 2015, 09:22:28
Sorry if this has been answered before but has GMK confirmed that only 1 custom color is available?No. I am waiting to find out if we can get all custom colors. This discussion is about Plan B.
:thumb:
Looking at the scan nubbs put up (which IMHO is almost spot on for color accuracy) I like 2B or 2M for the alpha. Really don't like U9, just don't think colors work that well on beige. If we did only get one custom color I feel like it could be a bit of a missed opportunity not to use that color for the alpha legends. Should look quite nice on either 2B/2M as well.
(http://i.imgur.com/4juBUqD.jpg)
Post by: luckyryan333 on Wed, 25 February 2015, 09:33:25
Otherwise, I believe U9 would be still another holy color for Plan B.
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 25 February 2015, 11:07:04
2M is too light compared to TA's shade, I think, not sure how 3K look but it is still a lot lighter I believe
btw,I don't like (or, I hate) the brown-ish grey U9 so much...
U9 is god awful. 2M is a light, light grey, 3k is a cream/beige, but also a very light color.
The halfway between 2b and 2M, that is an idea with promise. I assume that would be easy for them to make, too, since they have both colors in stock. I'm not sure how the mixing process works, but I assumr iy just be mixing the two granulates 50/50, much easier than trying to match a completely new color
From my understanding, mixing them in the hopper will not work. Injection molding does not heat and mix the pellets, the machines push the pellets through a heated nozzle. So if you just mixed them in the hopped, you'd get a splotchy, inconsistent color.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 25 February 2015, 13:12:37
The halfway between 2b and 2M, that is an idea with promise. I assume that would be easy for them to make, too, since they have both colors in stock. I'm not sure how the mixing process works, but I assumr iy just be mixing the two granulates 50/50, much easier than trying to match a completely new color
From my understanding, mixing them in the hopper will not work. Injection molding does not heat and mix the pellets, the machines push the pellets through a heated nozzle. So if you just mixed them in the hopped, you'd get a splotchy, inconsistent color.
If they use an extruder, that mixes the pellets quite well (also heats/shears them). The processes I work with have a blender -> hopper -> extruder -> die. Injection molding with extruders just swaps the die out for a mold, and operates in a non-steady-state manner. This (injection molding) is not my area of expertise, FYI, so take it for what you'd like, but I do work with extruders every day so I know about those. ^-^
Post by: bazh on Wed, 25 February 2015, 13:44:59
Post by: Fnzzy on Wed, 25 February 2015, 18:21:42
Post by: Zeal on Wed, 25 February 2015, 20:21:00
If you're going for this look
(http://i.imgur.com/pxUPPdt.jpg)
then 2B is very similar in the same "darker" lighting.
If you're aiming for this look
(http://i.imgur.com/o7qtEPj.jpg)
then U9 *COULD* work, given the darker doubleshot legend will reduce the yellow tinge found on U9. Doubleshot keys will always appear different (esp if there's a contrasting legend) vs a blank key due to thinner keycap walls. However it would be risky as U9 is more beige than gray.
If I were to describe U9 as a colour we've all seen (assuming IPS monitor set to srgb), then it's very similar to Google Maps' loading colour. However matching a real life keycap colour to a digital image is impossible.
(http://puu.sh/gcVV5/50d5dfc06b.png)
Post by: TBone on Wed, 25 February 2015, 21:58:04
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 25 February 2015, 21:59:27
Post by: bueller on Wed, 25 February 2015, 22:11:42
I'd rather go too light than too dark, but U9 really is awful. I'd still probably be in with 2B, but I'd be out in a flash with U9.This is pretty much how I feel, I'd be comfortable with just about any choice other than U9, I really hate that color.
Post by: stoic-lemon on Thu, 26 February 2015, 05:20:17
Post by: greath on Thu, 26 February 2015, 07:55:19
Post by: bazh on Thu, 26 February 2015, 08:27:09
Anyone have thoughts on L9?
too light
Post by: quochung1989 on Thu, 26 February 2015, 08:30:59
Post by: bazh on Thu, 26 February 2015, 08:34:27
If the worst case turns out, I think 2B is the way to go then, U9 is just, terrible.
Post by: Dee1 on Thu, 26 February 2015, 12:51:42
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 26 February 2015, 18:05:10
Post by: reformingpanda on Thu, 26 February 2015, 20:12:41
Post by: cooldiscretion on Fri, 27 February 2015, 16:16:29
When I heard about the numbers necessary for the custom colors, I was immediately thinking something like this would never come to fruition.
With MassDrop and your hard work, it looks like tons of people will be sporting this keyset when it's all produced. I'm anxious to see how well
MassDrop handles a GMK order as well. I don't think they have ever done one before, no?
Post by: Geroximo on Fri, 27 February 2015, 16:40:27
Or still unknown?
Post by: monotagary on Fri, 27 February 2015, 16:59:41
Are the legends on the alphas going to be blue or teal?
Or still unknown?
We are getting blue legends.
Post by: Geroximo on Fri, 27 February 2015, 17:09:56
Are the legends on the alphas going to be blue or teal?
Or still unknown?
We are getting blue legends.
Sweet :thumb:
Post by: cjhard on Sat, 28 February 2015, 20:24:24
(http://imgur.com/Q2JnFqI.png)
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Sat, 28 February 2015, 20:36:42
I think 2B is way dark. Can they not do N2 anymore? U9 is closer to the mods of classic beige, but N2 is a grey version of the same lightness.Show Image(http://imgur.com/Q2JnFqI.png)
I second N2. And why wasn't it available on the other pictures?
EDIT: So N2 is gone. Bummer. :(
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 28 February 2015, 20:36:43
I think 2B is way dark. Can they not do N2 anymore? U9 is closer to the mods of classic beige, but N2 is a grey version of the same lightness.Show Image(http://imgur.com/Q2JnFqI.png)
They don't include a lot of those colors in their color ring. BJ, V0, P2, L2, N2, N3, CB, N8, 3A, and 1M are all gone; however, they added V2 orange, CP white/cream, UN0001 white, UN33656 magenta, UN5046 purple, and UN6037 cyan.
My assumption is that if it's no longer in the color ring, it's no longer available.
Post by: intelli78 on Sun, 01 March 2015, 14:53:03
IF we can get all custom colors, what do you guys think about this:
(http://i.imgur.com/uMUrKws.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/xdytuUb.jpg)
So I'm thinking this ^ ideally. If they shut down multiple custom colors, then we'll use our 1 for the teal, obviously, UN0001 for mod legends, V4 for alpha legends, and then we'll have to make a tough choice about the alpha base. Most debate so far has centered on 2B vs 2M, with the consensus being that we'd really want something in between. Almost everybody hates U9. I'll throw out another alternative, though - L9... ? That could go pretty well with the teal and lend the set a more vintage look...
Thoughts?
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 01 March 2015, 14:55:45
Those custom colors looks like they'd be great if you can do them.
Personally, I don't think L9 would look as good as 2M.
Post by: bueller on Sun, 01 March 2015, 15:03:06
Post by: monotagary on Sun, 01 March 2015, 15:27:18
But if we can't go all custom then I would prefer 2M over L9 as well.
Post by: intelli78 on Sun, 01 March 2015, 15:28:45
2M is actually really contrasty. It's a really really light grey that I think would give a nice pop, but not be blindingly bright like UN0001 would be. The only reason you can really tell it's grey is by having some of the cream and white caps next to it.
Those custom colors looks like they'd be great if you can do them.
Personally, I don't think L9 would look as good as 2M.
My issue with 2M, is that it'll turn the set into this:
(http://i.imgur.com/PmJoVoN.png)
While it's attractive, it's been done already and it's distinctly not Triumph Adler. No TA boards have alphas anywhere near that brightness. They range from yellowish-beige to gray depending on the board and the photo, but they are definitely not that.
Regarding the legends you are right. I got nervous about the off-white, figured the pure white would be the safest choice, but yeah, there really shouldn't be any problem with 2M there.
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 01 March 2015, 15:54:39
I do think you're getting a little lost in getting 100% accuracy though. I think people would be happy with close, even if the alphas are lighter.
Post by: cjhard on Sun, 01 March 2015, 16:17:22
2M is a cooler color hue that doesn't feel right alongside teal, while L9 and 3K appear a touch warmer in the photos I've seen, and aren't as muddy-dark as U9.
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Sun, 01 March 2015, 16:28:19
Post by: hjc1710 on Sun, 01 March 2015, 16:55:44
Post by: Joey Quinn on Sun, 01 March 2015, 17:05:34
MoreOK, so I abandoned the idea of printing custom colors -- results were too unpredictable. Instead, I've been researching Pantone colors, which are pre-defined, industry standards that GMK can work with.
IF we can get all custom colors, what do you guys think about this:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/uMUrKws.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/xdytuUb.jpg)For the mod legends, I think it'll be UN0001. I've been using 2M in the mockups, but judging from Nubbinator's scans, UN0001 is an obvious improvement to make sure we get good contrast.
So I'm thinking this ^ ideally. If they shut down multiple custom colors, then we'll use our 1 for the teal, obviously, UN0001 for mod legends, V4 for alpha legends, and then we'll have to make a tough choice about the alpha base. Most debate so far has centered on 2B vs 2M, with the consensus being that we'd really want something in between. Almost everybody hates U9. I'll throw out another alternative, though - L9... ? That could go pretty well with the teal and lend the set a more vintage look...
Thoughts?
Those three look like solid choices.
Post by: bueller on Sun, 01 March 2015, 17:15:23
Post by: cjhard on Sun, 01 March 2015, 20:37:28
The board you mentioned appears to have that mugly circle thingo making the Windows key distinct and stand-outy. Every GMK cap I've seen doesn't have that
I'm more concerned with the fact that the Windows key is a thing that exists at all. I, and a few former coworkers who had a hand in manufacturing IBM's (and later Lexmark's) Model M, believe the Windows key is the reason for the demise of the buckling spring's popularity and the rise of the rubber dome in every household. Refuse to add two Windows logo's to every keyboard, it'd cost too much, is fine, they'll just find someone in China who'll do it for a fraction of the cost instead.
Post by: bueller on Sun, 01 March 2015, 20:48:33
The board you mentioned appears to have that mugly circle thingo making the Windows key distinct and stand-outy. Every GMK cap I've seen doesn't have thatflawfeature.
Pretty sure the one with the circle around the windows logo is a lasered board, the pad printed one doesn't have any of that plastic nonsense haha
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sun, 01 March 2015, 21:03:41
OK, so I abandoned the idea of printing custom colors -- results were too unpredictable. Instead, I've been researching Pantone colors, which are pre-defined, industry standards that GMK can work with.
IF we can get all custom colors, what do you guys think about this:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/uMUrKws.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/xdytuUb.jpg)For the mod legends, I think it'll be UN0001. I've been using 2M in the mockups, but judging from Nubbinator's scans, UN0001 is an obvious improvement to make sure we get good contrast.
So I'm thinking this ^ ideally. If they shut down multiple custom colors, then we'll use our 1 for the teal, obviously, UN0001 for mod legends, V4 for alpha legends, and then we'll have to make a tough choice about the alpha base. Most debate so far has centered on 2B vs 2M, with the consensus being that we'd really want something in between. Almost everybody hates U9. I'll throw out another alternative, though - L9... ? That could go pretty well with the teal and lend the set a more vintage look...
Thoughts?
Yes. Do it. Let's get this in the air!
Post by: Synjin on Sun, 01 March 2015, 21:16:03
Post by: Karura on Mon, 02 March 2015, 01:26:29
Am I the only one that's worried about a not having a double-shot windows key? I only say this because I've got a set of NIB mods off a G81-8200 with the mixture of pad printed and double-shot and it's really off putting.
You're definitely not the only one who thinks that.
I have a few GMK/Cherry doubleshot keysets that have both doubleshot and pad-printed keys, and I can say for sure that the pad printed keys are a slight (ever so slightly) different shade from the doubleshot legends.
As much as I like the idea of using vintage win98 windows keys, I'd much rather have a doubleshot key for windows, if it is not possible to doubleshot a win98 winkey.
Post by: mz/x on Mon, 02 March 2015, 06:55:01
Am I the only one that's worried about a not having a double-shot windows key? I only say this because I've got a set of NIB mods off a G81-8200 with the mixture of pad printed and double-shot and it's really off putting.
I 100% agree with you. I think all keys should be double-shot.
Post by: skcheng on Mon, 02 March 2015, 07:33:35
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 02 March 2015, 10:27:07
All keys would ideally be double shot like the OG keys. Please have GMK offer dimpled F and J caps as well. Some of us (not me) don't like the scoops.
Scoops are love, scoops are life.
Post by: heedpantsnow on Mon, 02 March 2015, 10:30:28
Am I the only one that's worried about a not having a double-shot windows key? I only say this because I've got a set of NIB mods off a G81-8200 with the mixture of pad printed and double-shot and it's really off putting.
I also don't want mixed DS & printed sets. I'd rather have a DS word WIN than a printed logo any day.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 02 March 2015, 10:32:13
Post by: hjc1710 on Mon, 02 March 2015, 10:35:56
Am I the only one that's worried about a not having a double-shot windows key? I only say this because I've got a set of NIB mods off a G81-8200 with the mixture of pad printed and double-shot and it's really off putting.
I also don't want mixed DS & printed sets. I'd rather have a DS word WIN than a printed logo any day.
I agree with this. I would rather have the new style DS winkeys instead of the old style pad printed ones (ideally, both would be amazing). But, that's not a dealbreaker for me.
Has any GMK set had doubleshot windows keys? I thought windows and menu keys were always pad printed. Of course I haven't used a GMK set in a few months.
Aren't the winkeys in the Dolch color set here DS? https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58608.0
Post by: bueller on Mon, 02 March 2015, 10:44:35
Am I the only one that's worried about a not having a double-shot windows key? I only say this because I've got a set of NIB mods off a G81-8200 with the mixture of pad printed and double-shot and it's really off putting.
I also don't want mixed DS & printed sets. I'd rather have a DS word WIN than a printed logo any day.
Yeah I prefer Windows 8 but I know some people aren't a fan - I'll take anything so long as it makes it a full double shot set.
Post by: intelli78 on Mon, 02 March 2015, 10:49:27
Post by: bueller on Mon, 02 March 2015, 10:52:50
Has any GMK set had doubleshot windows keys? I thought windows and menu keys were always pad printed. Of course I haven't used a GMK set in a few months.
Yeah all my sets have double-shot legends - GMK Dolch, GMK Purple, GMK Classic Beige.
Post by: skcheng on Mon, 02 March 2015, 10:55:22
All keys would ideally be double shot like the OG keys. Please have GMK offer dimpled F and J caps as well. Some of us (not me) don't like the scoops.
Scoops are love, scoops are life.
I agree, but my kiddo hates them, so I have a GMK, ghetto F and J set up for him on his KMAC 2
Post by: pr0ximity on Mon, 02 March 2015, 10:56:58
I agree, but my kiddo hates them, so I have a GMK, ghetto F and J set up for him on his KMAC 2
Hide yo kids, hide yo wife, we're scooping everything out here.
Post by: bueller on Mon, 02 March 2015, 10:57:35
The ship has already sailed on the layout and legends.
Ah well, you've probably just saved me some cash haha
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 02 March 2015, 10:58:05
The ship has already sailed on the ... legends.
Really? Well, that sucks. I much prefer the double shot Win8 logo over pad printed Win95 logo. I didn't know there was a discussion on it. :(
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 02 March 2015, 11:08:20
The ship has already sailed on the ... legends.
Really? Well, that sucks. I much prefer the double shot Win8 logo over pad printed Win95 logo. I didn't know there was a discussion on it. :(
As do I.
Post by: CommonCurt on Mon, 02 March 2015, 11:30:45
The ship has already sailed on the layout and legends.
I'm extremely happy you went with the Win95 logo. Of course I'd rather they be double shot. Is the reason they're not because they don't have the molds anymore?
Also, can they still do Win7 double shots? Seems like every good GMK set coming out now is only being made with the ugly ass win8 logo.
Post by: bueller on Mon, 02 March 2015, 11:32:15
The ship has already sailed on the layout and legends.
I'm extremely happy you went with the Win95 logo. Of course I'd rather they be double shot. Is the reason they're not because they don't have the molds anymore?
Also, can they still do Win7 double shots? Seems like every good GMK set coming out now is only being made with the ugly ass win8 logo.
Yeah they don't have molds for Win95 logos unfortunately, only Win7 and Win8.
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 02 March 2015, 11:35:15
Post by: bueller on Mon, 02 March 2015, 11:36:58
Post by: strict on Mon, 02 March 2015, 11:48:32
Post by: skcheng on Mon, 02 March 2015, 12:04:53
Post by: FrostyToast on Mon, 02 March 2015, 12:28:21
What chumps. Amirite?
WKL all day erry day.
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 02 March 2015, 12:30:54
Seriously, pad printed GMK looks good, and it's very, very wear resistant. I don't know why it would make someone decide to not buy a set.
Post by: strict on Mon, 02 March 2015, 12:36:52
What makes GMK pad-printing special? It will still wear off way before the double-shot legends. Its still going to have the glossy border around the logo, right?
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 02 March 2015, 12:37:33
Classic colour scheme = classic legends. That was the thought process.
Seriously, pad printed GMK looks good, and it's very, very wear resistant. I don't know why it would make someone decide to not buy a set.
Not a deal breaker fire me, just sub-optimal.
And if we're going to appeal to it being vintage, then we should say it should be winkeyless.
Post by: FrostyToast on Mon, 02 March 2015, 12:43:42
Also, I'm just saying, a ton of people just use the WKL layout.
Post by: strict on Mon, 02 March 2015, 12:52:14
How often do you guys even press the windows key?
Also, I'm just saying, a ton of people just use the WKL layout.
A lot, like non-stop
- Win+r = run box
- Win+e = windows explorer
- Win+Pause = System control pane
- Win+{Num} = switch to an open window
I love a lot of those Korean customs but WKL could never happen for me.
Post by: user 18 on Mon, 02 March 2015, 13:04:10
How often do you guys even press the windows key?I use it pretty constantly. A lot of my openbox shortcuts are mapped to super + another key. It's really good for that because I know I won't be accidentally triggering or hiding an application shortcut.
Also, I'm just saying, a ton of people just use the WKL layout.
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 02 March 2015, 13:23:08
How often do you guys even press the windows key?
Also, I'm just saying, a ton of people just use the WKL layout.
I use it all the time. I'm lost without it since I use quite a few winkey shortcuts.
Post by: whentheclouds on Mon, 02 March 2015, 14:19:19
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 02 March 2015, 14:23:52
What makes GMK pad-printing special? It will still wear off way before the double-shot legends. Its still going to have the glossy border around the logo, right?We're talking years before it wears away, unless you type sentences with your windows key. Your set will be all shined over ages before the clear coat even wears away, nevermind the pad print itself.
Post by: mz/x on Mon, 02 March 2015, 14:59:30
The ship has already sailed on the layout and legends.I am afraid that I am not the only one who would pass on this otherwise great and very lovely set if it becomes obvious that not all keys are double-shot. Is there any way to offer let's say some extra keys as a compromise? Just thinking here ... I understand that boat is gone so I was just thinking.
Post by: hjc1710 on Mon, 02 March 2015, 15:08:17
The ship has already sailed on the layout and legends.I am afraid that I am not the only one who would pass on this otherwise great and very lovely set if it becomes obvious that not all keys are double-shot. Is there any way to offer let's say some extra keys as a compromise? Just thinking here ... I understand that boat is gone so I was just thinking.
I think the only options there would be to somehow try and get a modifier pack to hit MOQ and go with that. Unfortunately, the rest of this set is so well picked, that it covers the vast majority of all semi-popular layouts, so only like more ISO support... and... and... profile fixing for esoteric layouts could be done (e.g., R4 End for an 85% support). There's definitely some odd layouts I'm not thinking of, but 1800 works with this set, HHKB does, WKL does, MX mini does, and even 85% does if you're willing to compromise on profile. So, I don't think that option would work.
Correct me if I'm wrong intelli/Photekq, but this is the impression I've been given about an extra mods pack while reading the thread (i.e., the keys chosen were chosen so a mod set wouldn't be needed).
Post by: whentheclouds on Mon, 02 March 2015, 15:21:20
Post by: hjc1710 on Mon, 02 March 2015, 15:22:58
a separate mod pack was never in consideration
Correct. It was mentioned on page, like, 5 to do the entire buy as a mods pack (this was when we were still on the fence about alpha legend colors). Since then, intelli and Photekq have done an awesome job picking keys and a mod pack wouldn't be too useful.
Post by: user 18 on Mon, 02 March 2015, 15:29:54
As windows keys, I mean.
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 02 March 2015, 15:30:38
How about some blanks?
The ship has already sailed on the layout and legends.
Post by: intelli78 on Mon, 02 March 2015, 15:35:32
.... and on and on and on.
Unfortunately every key adds to the expense, and the more obscure keys you add, the more it means you expect the average Joe buyer to subsidize everyone else's caps. Joe who buys the set for his Ducky or QFR isn't going to use any of those other caps and it's not fair to ask him to subsidize all those useless keys. Moreover, we have seen in other recent GBs what happens when sets get too big and expensive; they don't meet MOQ.
This set is not perfect, but no set can be perfect within the constraints of reality. You can't please everyone. We did the best we could to find the happy medium.
I would be willing to partially compromise and go back to blanks for the winkey if that is more agreeable for the majority. But there will be no additional keys added or other changes made. That discussion happened in the first half of the thread and it's done now. The choices made were sound then and they are sound now.
Now I'm working on sorting out the colors so we can get this up for sale and into everyone's hands as soon as possible. That is the priority now.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 02 March 2015, 15:40:29
I would be willing to partially compromise and go back to blanks for the winkey if that is more agreeable for the majority.
I much prefer pad printed Winkeys. The quality of GMK pad printing is more than sufficient for these two keys, and I would rather have them than blank keycaps.
I suspect the people opposed to this have not used GMK pad printed keys. Yes, double shot is better, but for these keys we don't have a choice with, pad printing is fine.
If it truly becomes an issue of meeting MOQ, I'm willing to use blanks instead, but I don't see why it should come to that.
Post by: whentheclouds on Mon, 02 March 2015, 15:45:32
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 02 March 2015, 15:47:32
by the way, why is the windows logo offcentered for the 1.25 keys?(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy316/tinlong117/IMG_0470.jpg)
Post by: whentheclouds on Mon, 02 March 2015, 15:53:53
Post by: strict on Mon, 02 March 2015, 16:19:05
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 02 March 2015, 16:37:13
Post by: Karura on Mon, 02 March 2015, 16:44:39
Guys...?
Post by: jonathanyu on Mon, 02 March 2015, 16:50:21
I'd say we chip in $100 each and help GMK make new molds for the ultimate Win98 doubleshot caps, then everyone will be happy!
Guys...?
GMK will not make new mold.
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Mon, 02 March 2015, 16:58:07
I'd say we chip in $100 each and help GMK make new molds for the ultimate Win98 doubleshot caps, then everyone will be happy!
Guys...?
GMK will not make new mold.
And even if they did, from what I know about plastic injection a new mold costs from 4k to 10k dollars, depending on complexity. I don't think people is willing to expend this kind of money just to make a mold and pay again for the keycaps.
Post by: Karura on Mon, 02 March 2015, 17:08:39
GMK will make new molds if you pay for it, and like you said, it will be thousands of dollars that we have no hope in recovering :P
And if we really did all chip in $100 each for it, I'm sure it could be done.
Post by: hjc1710 on Mon, 02 March 2015, 18:26:53
I would be willing to partially compromise and go back to blanks for the winkey if that is more agreeable for the majority. But there will be no additional keys added or other changes made.
(http://i.imgur.com/dhMeAzK.gif)
Thanks for staying committed to keeping this set going above all else. And not compromising on a layout that is pretty ****ing great, if I do say so myself.
I'd prefer pad printed winkeys, but can happily concede to blanks if it lets us reach MOQ.
We're so close guys! Let's not let something like winkeys prevent one of the greatest sets ever from being made!
Post by: bueller on Mon, 02 March 2015, 21:50:08
That discussion happened in the first half of the thread and it's done now. The choices made were sound then and they are sound now.
There was no discussion on the Windows keys though. I literally just read the entire thread and all your mockups didn't even have a legend chosen in the early stages, the Win95 key was added when you started the Massdrop vote but no-one noticed because all anyone was discussing was legend colors or complaining about MD.
I can't see the benefit of blanks, it will look weird. Why can't we have a Win7/8 logo instead? If you're willing to drop the Win95 logo it seems like a far better option than ruining the bottom row aesthetic with a blank.
Post by: strict on Mon, 02 March 2015, 21:58:21
There was no discussion on the Windows keys though. I literally just read the entire thread and all your mockups didn't even have a legend chosen in the early stages, the Win95 key was added when you started the Massdrop vote but no-one noticed because all anyone was discussing was legend colors or complaining about MD.
I can't see the benefit of blanks, it will look weird. Why can't we have a Win7/8 logo instead? If you're willing to drop the Win95 logo it seems like a far better option than ruining the bottom row aesthetic with a blank.
win7/8 would be my top choice, followed by blank, followed by pad print
Maybe a poll should be created?
Post by: bueller on Mon, 02 March 2015, 22:02:15
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/26/original/qapusuny.jpg)
Post by: heedpantsnow on Mon, 02 March 2015, 22:12:17
2. Blank
3. Printed W98 (2nd worst Win OS ever I have to say!)
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 02 March 2015, 22:27:24
(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120901001847/logopedia/images/9/95/Windows_1.0_1985.jpg)
I go, in order, Windows 7 or 8, pad printed Windows 2.0, pad printed Win 95, blank.
Post by: bueller on Mon, 02 March 2015, 22:29:08
I say modern Windows 7 or 8 would be good. If we're just doing the Windows 95 logo because it's retro, it's really the wrong time frame. If you want the appropriate Windows logo, it should be something like the Windows 2.0 logo for a Triumph Adler machine, so something like this:Show Image(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120901001847/logopedia/images/9/95/Windows_1.0_1985.jpg)
Haha Microsoft sure have come full circle with their logo's haven't they.
Post by: hjc1710 on Mon, 02 March 2015, 22:34:58
3. Printed W98 (2nd worst Win OS ever I have to say!)
You're trying to tell me that both Vista and ME were better then 98? I call foul play sir.
I say modern Windows 7 or 8 would be good. If we're just doing the Windows 95 logo because it's retro, it's really the wrong time frame. If you want the appropriate Windows logo, it should be something like the Windows 2.0 logo for a Triumph Adler machine, so something like this:Show Image(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120901001847/logopedia/images/9/95/Windows_1.0_1985.jpg)
I go, in order, Windows 7 or 8, pad printed Windows 2.0, pad printed Win 95, blank.
I kinda love the Windows 2.0 logo... I'd be incredibly pleased with a pad printed version of that.
As a side note, I just now noticed differences/defects on my pad printed winkeys that my 14 year old G80-11900 has. So, I imagine GMK pad printing durability is solid.
Post by: bueller on Mon, 02 March 2015, 22:40:10
Post by: Karura on Mon, 02 March 2015, 22:44:31
Doubleshot for the win... ... get it?
Post by: whentheclouds on Tue, 03 March 2015, 09:41:02
Post by: krunchwrap on Tue, 03 March 2015, 22:00:06
Post by: sethk_ on Tue, 03 March 2015, 22:30:12
I couldn't be more excited for this set. Since I saw that blog post I've been pumped! I love the choice in Windows keys and I think it really makes for a classic looking set.I agree. We should just stick with the Windows key that has been chosen already
Post by: taylordcraig on Tue, 03 March 2015, 23:53:52
Post by: CommonCurt on Tue, 03 March 2015, 23:57:33
My vote is for the already chosen key or blank.
+1 same here.
Post by: intelli78 on Wed, 04 March 2015, 14:46:39
(http://i.imgur.com/1RYgEth.jpg)
Board in background is HHKB.
Post by: intelli78 on Wed, 04 March 2015, 15:00:24
(http://i.imgur.com/EXkX4bt.jpg)
Compare to the current ones:
(http://i.imgur.com/uMUrKws.jpg)
Post by: skcheng on Wed, 04 March 2015, 15:07:08
Some additional possibilities:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/EXkX4bt.jpg)
Compare to the current ones:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/uMUrKws.jpg)
I think I prefer the current ones. The 7476C looks a bit "green" and the Cool Gray 4 C looks like dirty off-white. But that's just my opinion.
Which color are closest to the original Triumph Adler?
Post by: exitfire401 on Wed, 04 March 2015, 15:14:16
Some additional possibilities:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/EXkX4bt.jpg)
Compare to the current ones:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/uMUrKws.jpg)
I think I prefer the current ones. The 7476C looks a bit "green" and the Cool Gray 4 C looks like dirty off-white. But that's just my opinion.
Which color are closest to the original Triumph Adler?
This. I completely prefer the current ones. The warm grey suits the set the best and the teal/blue look spot on.
Post by: intelli78 on Wed, 04 March 2015, 15:14:21
(http://i.imgur.com/PohSvIw.jpg)
Post by: intelli78 on Wed, 04 March 2015, 15:16:37
Which color are closest to the original Triumph Adler?
It's not an easy question since we're working with JPG sources and each board is different. The 3 I originally picked are the closest colors to Josh's board, according to multiple samples in Photoshop.
However, in real life, the 5473 is more dark green than teal, I think that's visible in my photo. It looks pretty perfect in the screenshot from the Pantone site but like I said I wish it had a little more blue IRL.
Post by: geniekid on Wed, 04 March 2015, 15:30:03
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 04 March 2015, 15:30:12
Edit: auto-correct hates me.
Post by: radio_killah on Wed, 04 March 2015, 15:35:50
I trust Intelli's intuition as to what looks best and what represents the original TA set best.
As for windows keys, eh. I thought the layout of the set was set in stone.
Post by: Heliosphere on Wed, 04 March 2015, 16:00:23
More teals: :-\ 3155 and 7470 look like the most interesting alternatives here.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/PohSvIw.jpg)
Is it possible for you to get all of these color chips so you can compare them side by side, then pick the one that looks the best? I think the current grey and blue are good fits.
Post by: intelli78 on Wed, 04 March 2015, 16:16:36
Keep in mind if your monitor isn't properly calibrated (or just has poor color accuracy in general) that you will not be seeing the *actual* colors represented by the images that intelli78 is posting. I think a lot of us will just have to trust him on this one :)
I am a little confused as to how we can even come to a consensus when there is variability between what people are seeing on their monitors. What Intelli is seeing on his calibrated retina display is definitely not the same as what others have.
I trust Intelli's intuition as to what looks best and what represents the original TA set best.
As for windows keys, eh. I thought the layout of the set was set in stone.
Yes, to a large degree me sharing this info may be doing more harm than good, as only folks with factory calibrated retina MBP monitors are likely to see what I'm seeing. (And maybe not even all those, as calibrations and manufacturers can vary even on the same MacBook models.)
If we really wanted to be looking at the same photos, we'd all have to order Spyders (http://www.amazon.com/Datacolor-Spyder4Pro-S4P100-Colorimeter-Calibration/dp/B006TF37H8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1425507002&sr=8-1&keywords=monitor+color+calibrator) or similar products.
However, one good thing about Pantone colors is that they have real life reference points, so anybody who can get access to Pantone color books can see what I'm seeing in person.
I think we should be focused on what looks best, not on what's the closest to 100% accurate. Remember, every set we've seen looks different due to differences in how they've aged. As such, accuracy is not a perfect ideal you can strive toward. Aesthetics, on the other hand, is.
Edit: auto-correct hates me.
I understand what you're saying and I basically agree. That said, what I am trying to achieve is not necessarily "accuracy" in the abstract as much as copying Josh's photos from the OP (the first 3 photos in particular). No, we won't be able to duplicate it 100% either, but I'd like to get the teal a little closer, as the 5473 is really just a dark green with no blue.
It sounds like everyone is pretty much OK with the gray and blue, and I'm content to call those good enough.
More teals: :-\ 3155 and 7470 look like the most interesting alternatives here.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/PohSvIw.jpg)
Is it possible for you to get all of these color chips so you can compare them side by side, then pick the one that looks the best? I think the current grey and blue are good fits.
Yes, most of them. I have to order individual Pantone catalog pages (each page only has 7 colors; the whole catalog is thousands of dollars). Of the different teals I just posted, I just ordered all the associated pages that Hyatt's has in stock. This will give me quite a few new options to consider, and hopefully one of them will be good enough.
Should receive the additional pages in 2-3 days, and will post an update then.
Post by: pr0ximity on Wed, 04 March 2015, 16:30:23
Post by: intelli78 on Wed, 04 March 2015, 16:37:34
I agree that too many cooks in the kitchen spoils the soup.
Good way of putting it.
Post by: hjc1710 on Wed, 04 March 2015, 17:49:59
It sounds like everyone is pretty much OK with the gray and blue, and I'm content to call those good enough.
Is it possible for you to get all of these color chips so you can compare them side by side, then pick the one that looks the best? I think the current grey and blue are good fits.
Yes, most of them. I have to order individual Pantone catalog pages (each page only has 7 colors; the whole catalog is thousands of dollars). Of the different teals I just posted, I just ordered all the associated pages that Hyatt's has in stock. This will give me quite a few new options to consider, and hopefully one of them will be good enough.
Should receive the additional pages in 2-3 days, and will post an update then.
First off, thanks for doing this intelli and staying so damn devoted. I really appreciate all the little things you're doing here, like going through Pantone colors so we all can have a point of reference, if we really want one.
Second I agree with you entirely, the blue and grey pantone colors are perfect, drop dead sexy. I nearly lost it when I turned off f.lux to really take them in. But the teal definitely needs more blue. That's just a dark or sea green.
<3 intelli! Keep it up!
Post by: intelli78 on Wed, 04 March 2015, 18:02:24
Thanks for the positivity.
Post by: luckyryan333 on Thu, 05 March 2015, 00:02:16
It sounds like everyone is pretty much OK with the gray and blue, and I'm content to call those good enough.
Is it possible for you to get all of these color chips so you can compare them side by side, then pick the one that looks the best? I think the current grey and blue are good fits.
Yes, most of them. I have to order individual Pantone catalog pages (each page only has 7 colors; the whole catalog is thousands of dollars). Of the different teals I just posted, I just ordered all the associated pages that Hyatt's has in stock. This will give me quite a few new options to consider, and hopefully one of them will be good enough.
Should receive the additional pages in 2-3 days, and will post an update then.
First off, thanks for doing this intelli and staying so damn devoted. I really appreciate all the little things you're doing here, like going through Pantone colors so we all can have a point of reference, if we really want one.
Second I agree with you entirely, the blue and grey pantone colors are perfect, drop dead sexy. I nearly lost it when I turned off f.lux to really take them in. But the teal definitely needs more blue. That's just a dark or sea green.
<3 intelli! Keep it up!
+1
Go for it, intelli!
Post by: taylordcraig on Thu, 05 March 2015, 00:04:42
Which color are closest to the original Triumph Adler?
It's not an easy question since we're working with JPG sources and each board is different. The 3 I originally picked are the closest colors to Josh's board, according to multiple samples in Photoshop.
However, in real life, the 5473 is more dark green than teal, I think that's visible in my photo. It looks pretty perfect in the screenshot from the Pantone site but like I said I wish it had a little more blue IRL.
I agree the photo you've provided looks darker than the image of the same pantone color.
Go with your gut and get that nice deep teal color.
I agree that too many cooks in the kitchen spoils the soup.
Good way of putting it.
I agree here too. Your earlier sentiments mirror mine; I trust you to make the right choice.
Post by: Karura on Thu, 05 March 2015, 00:22:53
When can we expect this to go up on MD? I don't want to miss it.
Post by: spookydoge on Thu, 05 March 2015, 15:30:18
Post by: sethk_ on Thu, 05 March 2015, 15:47:53
Pad printed winkey would definitely be a dealbreaker for me because of the looks, my vote goes to blanks.You are really going to miss out on this chance to own the first, and probably only custom color GMK kit because of the windows key? And is that because of the design, or pad print? Because from what I have head, is that the pad print on GMK sets is high quality, and is the winkey used that much for it to wear away?
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 05 March 2015, 15:59:11
But that, of course, is entirely up to intelli78.
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 05 March 2015, 16:01:08
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 05 March 2015, 16:02:53
Pad printing from GMK is high quality, but it makes a texture and look difference. That and the intent is for a retro symbol,but it's the wrong one for the time frame of the board.
You and I understand that, but will the average MD user? That's the whole point of using MD...to open this up to more potential orders.
Post by: sethk_ on Thu, 05 March 2015, 16:09:29
Well, they won't really notice that at a max, 2 keys out of 100+ are pad printed, and honestly, I would kick myself for missing it only because of 2 keys that are pad printed. I feel like I would rather have a full mod set with text and symbols, then having the blanks.Pad printing from GMK is high quality, but it makes a texture and look difference. That and the intent is for a retro symbol,but it's the wrong one for the time frame of the board.
You and I understand that, but will the average MD user? That's the whole point of using MD...to open this up to more potential orders.
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 05 March 2015, 16:29:08
Well, they won't really notice that at a max, 2 keys out of 100+ are pad printed, and honestly, I would kick myself for missing it only because of 2 keys that are pad printed. I feel like I would rather have a full mod set with text and symbols, then having the blanks.Pad printing from GMK is high quality, but it makes a texture and look difference. That and the intent is for a retro symbol,but it's the wrong one for the time frame of the board.
You and I understand that, but will the average MD user? That's the whole point of using MD...to open this up to more potential orders.
You don't think it will be brought up in the discussion at Massdrop??
Post by: sethk_ on Thu, 05 March 2015, 16:31:03
I do, but I feel like with an ample description as to why would be understandable. MD and r/mk/ aren't all retarded, they just think PBT doubleshot is the standard and only acceptable keycaps to put on their boards, and that can be fixed with explanations.Well, they won't really notice that at a max, 2 keys out of 100+ are pad printed, and honestly, I would kick myself for missing it only because of 2 keys that are pad printed. I feel like I would rather have a full mod set with text and symbols, then having the blanks.Pad printing from GMK is high quality, but it makes a texture and look difference. That and the intent is for a retro symbol,but it's the wrong one for the time frame of the board.
You and I understand that, but will the average MD user? That's the whole point of using MD...to open this up to more potential orders.
You don't think it will be brought up in the discussion at Massdrop??
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 05 March 2015, 16:39:34
I do, but I feel like with an ample description as to why would be understandable. MD and r/mk/ aren't all retarded, they just think PBT doubleshot is the standard and only acceptable keycaps to put on their boards, and that can be fixed with explanations.
I'm not saying MD users or r/MK subscribers are retarded, far from it. But you have people HERE who understand the difference saying they won't buy in if it's A) pad printed or B) Win95 logo. Not a good sign when the MOQ is 500.
GMK pad printing for those keys is very good. I know that firsthand, because I own quite a few vintage Cherry sets. But not everyone agrees. FYI, I'm using a set of vintage Cherry WoB DS at this very moment, with some double shot Win8 logo keys from Ivan's GMK Dolch buy (and some RGB from EK), and I really like the Win8 logo keys.
Post by: sethk_ on Thu, 05 March 2015, 16:42:00
Ah, I just have a pull towards the 95 logo, it's my favorite one GMK has. Not a deal breaker for me if we go to blanks or 8, I just prefer the 95.I do, but I feel like with an ample description as to why would be understandable. MD and r/mk/ aren't all retarded, they just think PBT doubleshot is the standard and only acceptable keycaps to put on their boards, and that can be fixed with explanations.
I'm not saying MD users or r/MK subscribers are retarded, far from it. But you have people HERE who understand the difference saying they won't buy in if it's A) pad printed or B) Win95 logo. Not a good sign when the MOQ is 500.
GMK pad printing for those keys is very good. I know that firsthand, because I own quite a few vintage Cherry sets. But not everyone agrees. FYI, I'm using a set of vintage Cherry WoB DS at this very moment, with some double shot Win8 logo keys from Ivan's GMK Dolch buy (and some RGB from EK), and I really like the Win8 logo keys.
Post by: CommonCurt on Thu, 05 March 2015, 16:47:27
I beg of you. Please stay away from dat win8 logo.
(http://media.giphy.com/media/9QrNWBKvBpCw0/giphy.gif)
Post by: whentheclouds on Thu, 05 March 2015, 16:48:02
But you have people HERE who understand the difference saying they won't buy in if it's A) pad printed or B) Win95 logo. Not a good sign when the MOQ is 500.the set is already so condensed, any decision intelli makes or doesn't make will impact some individuals' decision to partake. change it to blanks or win8 keys and i'm sure a couple posters will opt out due to the loss of retro aesthetic or whatever other reason. with the conditions this IC operates under (high moq low keys), it's just impossible to please everyone
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 05 March 2015, 16:51:09
It's hard to go back once you've said "the design is locked in" but sometimes compromise is necessary for the good of the buy. I had to accept that lesson myself in Hack'd By Geeks.
Post by: strict on Thu, 05 March 2015, 16:51:15
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 05 March 2015, 16:54:00
I mean, as it is, just look at the comments surrounding GMK Hyperfuse on Reddit. A ton of people were bashing it for being ABS, not understanding how good it is. Expect that level of understanding or lower from Massdrop buyers.
Post by: sethk_ on Thu, 05 March 2015, 16:55:41
Ah, I just have a pull towards the 95 logo, it's my favorite one GMK has. Not a deal breaker for me if we go to blanks or 8, I just prefer the 95.I do, but I feel like with an ample description as to why would be understandable. MD and r/mk/ aren't all retarded, they just think PBT doubleshot is the standard and only acceptable keycaps to put on their boards, and that can be fixed with explanations.
I'm not saying MD users or r/MK subscribers are retarded, far from it. But you have people HERE who understand the difference saying they won't buy in if it's A) pad printed or B) Win95 logo. Not a good sign when the MOQ is 500.
GMK pad printing for those keys is very good. I know that firsthand, because I own quite a few vintage Cherry sets. But not everyone agrees. FYI, I'm using a set of vintage Cherry WoB DS at this very moment, with some double shot Win8 logo keys from Ivan's GMK Dolch buy (and some RGB from EK), and I really like the Win8 logo keys.
Post by: strict on Thu, 05 March 2015, 16:57:04
If people feel that strongly about the logo (either the Win95 or Win8), why not just include both? It would increase the price of the set like $1. And would appease both groups who say "I'm definitely not buying in if the logo is _____."
It's hard to go back once you've said "the design is locked in" but sometimes compromise is necessary for the good of the buy. I had to accept that lesson myself in Hack'd By Geeks.
I like this idea. Without hesitation I would spend a couple extra dollars to get both. It would let me see first hand what GMK pad printing is like AND get me a nice double-shot Win8 key that I would actually use.
Post by: whentheclouds on Thu, 05 March 2015, 17:00:44
Post by: hjc1710 on Thu, 05 March 2015, 22:41:56
If people feel that strongly about the logo (either the Win95 or Win8), why not just include both? It would increase the price of the set like $1. And would appease both groups who say "I'm definitely not buying in if the logo is _____."I love this idea, absolutely. Best of both worlds, and I can swap between retro and modern :D.
It's hard to go back once you've said "the design is locked in" but sometimes compromise is necessary for the good of the buy. I had to accept that lesson myself in Hack'd By Geeks.
However whentheclouds has a good point, we need a DS menu key. And we might need DS 1u's for the Tsangan kit. So, now we're at 5 extra caps, so more than a buck, but probably only like $3-5, something I'd be thrilled to pay, not sure about the average MD audience member though.
However, one could make the argument that many Tsangan users will be fine with the pad printed 1u's and will want the retro look anyway (they are using retro boards or at least a more retro layout, after all), or will be totally WKL and won't need it. So, we might be able to keep it to just 3. As someone who would very likely be using the Tsangan kit, I can say I'd be fine with pad printed 1u's if it means the buy succeeds (but I'd rather have both ;)).
Post by: bueller on Thu, 05 March 2015, 22:49:10
If people feel that strongly about the logo (either the Win95 or Win8), why not just include both? It would increase the price of the set like $1. And would appease both groups who say "I'm definitely not buying in if the logo is _____."
It's hard to go back once you've said "the design is locked in" but sometimes compromise is necessary for the good of the buy. I had to accept that lesson myself in Hack'd By Geeks.
For me I feel like this would have the best outcome. Minimal price increase (which shouldn't be a problem as a final price hasn't been declared) and people can pick and choose as they please. Honestly I'm probably going to bail out if there isn't a DS option for the winkey, I don't care which one gets chosen but I have no urge to buy a set that's not 100% double-shot. It's not about the durability, it's about the look for me as they pad-printed keys stick out like a dogs bollocks in a set where every other key is DS.
don't forget that we'd need a corresponding version of the context menu key as well
Pretty sure the context key is already double shot.
Post by: spookydoge on Fri, 06 March 2015, 00:29:22
That way, the majority gets the design they want and the rest doesn't have to use a design/printing method they don't like.
While this would raise the price by a Dollar or two, this should make everyone happy who's considering not getting the set because of the winkeys.
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 06 March 2015, 00:40:58
Post by: spookydoge on Fri, 06 March 2015, 00:50:06
Pad printed winkey would definitely be a dealbreaker for me because of the looks, my vote goes to blanks.You are really going to miss out on this chance to own the first, and probably only custom color GMK kit because of the windows key? And is that because of the design, or pad print? Because from what I have head, is that the pad print on GMK sets is high quality, and is the winkey used that much for it to wear away?
While I hate the design, it's mostly because of the pad printing, as I want a consistent look. I think blanks would make the most sense as we won't agree on a winkey design that makes everyone happy.
Post by: billnye on Fri, 06 March 2015, 06:33:25
Have you seen a GMK pad printed key?Pad printed winkey would definitely be a dealbreaker for me because of the looks, my vote goes to blanks.You are really going to miss out on this chance to own the first, and probably only custom color GMK kit because of the windows key? And is that because of the design, or pad print? Because from what I have head, is that the pad print on GMK sets is high quality, and is the winkey used that much for it to wear away?
While I hate the design, it's mostly because of the pad printing, as I want a consistent look. I think blanks would make the most sense as we won't agree on a winkey design that makes everyone happy.
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 06 March 2015, 06:54:42
There will not be a poll or any additional keys. I am thinking about what to do about the winkey and I will make a decision in the next day or two. That and the colors. Nothing else is subject to change. I have heard people's concerns about the Winkeys and I am taking them seriously.
You're the boss (and we're thankful for all your hard work); you guys have done a stellar job with the design. Thanks for listening to people's opinions!
Post by: Schrikvis on Fri, 06 March 2015, 13:39:28
I'd have preferred a win1.0 logo, but that'd be even more out of place, although in a general keyboard-sense as these would be faux-retro.
My suggestion would be to keep the winkey blank, so OS neutrality is preserved and no one actually gets violently turned off by them. We can't have people not participating in the group buy for something as petty as a winkey print with such a high minimum order quantity.
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 06 March 2015, 14:28:54
I actually recommended the 1.0 a while back since it's more accurate (of course wwinkeyless is the most accurate). I'd prefer 7 or 8 since they'd be doubleshot, but 1.0 is better than 95 if it had to be pad printed.
Post by: cjhard on Fri, 06 March 2015, 14:29:28
Post by: spookydoge on Fri, 06 March 2015, 14:39:30
Blank winkey looks like ****. It's one of the few things that immediately kills a set for me. I'd rather have a pad printed picture of Elvis on the key than have it blank.
I actually recommended the 1.0 a while back since it's more accurate (of course wwinkeyless is the most accurate). I'd prefer 7 or 8 since they'd be doubleshot, but 1.0 is better than 95 if it had to be pad printed.
But don't you think it would make the most sense to use blanks if the choice is between 3 different logos, and everyone hates 1 - 3 of them? No matter which design the set goes with, some people will hate the design. I do believe that blanks would make more people happy than any of the logos.
I vote to ship with no win-key at all. Saves a few bucks, historically accurate, and nobody has to be disappointed when they discover the Superman key has a weird flag with window panes on it.
Even a logo which people won't like would be better than having no winkey, as a keyboard would look pretty bad with this entire set and no/a different winkey. This is the only time we'll ever get keycaps in this color, so it would be stupid to not have a winkey in that color.
Post by: Lastpilot on Fri, 06 March 2015, 14:45:40
I say modern Windows 7 or 8 would be good. If we're just doing the Windows 95 logo because it's retro, it's really the wrong time frame. If you want the appropriate Windows logo, it should be something like the Windows 2.0 logo for a Triumph Adler machine, so something like this:Show Image(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120901001847/logopedia/images/9/95/Windows_1.0_1985.jpg)
I go, in order, Windows 7 or 8, pad printed Windows 2.0, pad printed Win 95, blank.
+1 for period accurate logo
Post by: spookydoge on Fri, 06 March 2015, 14:56:24
I say modern Windows 7 or 8 would be good. If we're just doing the Windows 95 logo because it's retro, it's really the wrong time frame. If you want the appropriate Windows logo, it should be something like the Windows 2.0 logo for a Triumph Adler machine, so something like this:Show Image(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120901001847/logopedia/images/9/95/Windows_1.0_1985.jpg)
I go, in order, Windows 7 or 8, pad printed Windows 2.0, pad printed Win 95, blank.
+1 for period accurate logo
But even on the windows key, the pad printing will eventually wear off (or just start looking bad). I still believe that blank (or, although I don't really like the logos, win7 or win8 doubleshot) is the way to go. We currently have people who want the win1.0 logo, win95, win7 and win8. Only a single winkey will be included, so about half the people will be unhappy with the logo no matter which one the set goes with. While it would be the best case to have the different logos as options, this is unfortunately not happening so I believe it would be best to stay OS and era neutral and go with blanks.
Post by: sethk_ on Fri, 06 March 2015, 15:11:19
GMK Pad Printing apparently takes a very long time to wear off, and that is with regular use, and the windows key is not that frequently used, so it would easily last a long time before it started to wear.I say modern Windows 7 or 8 would be good. If we're just doing the Windows 95 logo because it's retro, it's really the wrong time frame. If you want the appropriate Windows logo, it should be something like the Windows 2.0 logo for a Triumph Adler machine, so something like this:Show Image(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120901001847/logopedia/images/9/95/Windows_1.0_1985.jpg)
I go, in order, Windows 7 or 8, pad printed Windows 2.0, pad printed Win 95, blank.
+1 for period accurate logo
But even on the windows key, the pad printing will eventually wear off (or just start looking bad). I still believe that blank (or, although I don't really like the logos, win7 or win8 doubleshot) is the way to go. We currently have people who want the win1.0 logo, win95, win7 and win8. Only a single winkey will be included, so about half the people will be unhappy with the logo no matter which one the set goes with. While it would be the best case to have the different logos as options, this is unfortunately not happening so I believe it would be best to stay OS and era neutral and go with blanks.
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 06 March 2015, 15:15:51
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 06 March 2015, 15:19:36
The best option, IMO, is doing a pad printed cap, be it the accurate 1.0 or 95, and a doubleshot.
^ This
I don't care whether the double shot logo is Win7 or Win8. And does GMK have a Win 1.0 logo for pad printing? I suppose they could use any vector image, though.
Post by: spookydoge on Fri, 06 March 2015, 15:25:55
Blank looks like **** wwith a set. I'd rather have a less than perfect pad printed logo than a blank key. Blank keys mixed with printed are aesthetically unpleasant and are a instant killer of a set for me. The best option, IMO, is doing a pad printed cap, be it the accurate 1.0 or 95, and a doubleshot.
But this is not possible, as no new keycaps will be added, so only a single design will be included. You'd need at least 2 printed versions to make most people happy, which is why I suggested blanks.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 06 March 2015, 15:27:55
Blank looks like **** wwith a set. I'd rather have a less than perfect pad printed logo than a blank key. Blank keys mixed with printed are aesthetically unpleasant and are a instant killer of a set for me. The best option, IMO, is doing a pad printed cap, be it the accurate 1.0 or 95, and a doubleshot.
But this is not possible, as no new keycaps will be added, so only a single design will be included. You'd need at least 2 printed versions to make most people happy, which is why I suggested blanks.
It's possible if intelli78 will add the keys.
As I said before, it's a tough pill to swallow to admit you need to change something once you say it's locked in. But sometimes you have to swallow your pride and just do it, for the sake of the buy reaching MOQ.
Post by: sethk_ on Fri, 06 March 2015, 15:29:50
and it is a blank cap, so 4 caps would be added to account for 1u and 1.25u, which would only add like 1 dollar.Blank looks like **** wwith a set. I'd rather have a less than perfect pad printed logo than a blank key. Blank keys mixed with printed are aesthetically unpleasant and are a instant killer of a set for me. The best option, IMO, is doing a pad printed cap, be it the accurate 1.0 or 95, and a doubleshot.
But this is not possible, as no new keycaps will be added, so only a single design will be included. You'd need at least 2 printed versions to make most people happy, which is why I suggested blanks.
It's possible if intelli78 will add the keys.
As I said before, it's a tough pill to swallow to admit you need to change something once you say it's locked in. But sometimes you have to swallow your pride and just do it, for the sake of the buy reaching MOQ.
Post by: spookydoge on Fri, 06 March 2015, 15:35:04
GMK Pad Printing apparently takes a very long time to wear off, and that is with regular use, and the windows key is not that frequently used, so it would easily last a long time before it started to wear.I say modern Windows 7 or 8 would be good. If we're just doing the Windows 95 logo because it's retro, it's really the wrong time frame. If you want the appropriate Windows logo, it should be something like the Windows 2.0 logo for a Triumph Adler machine, so something like this:Show Image(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120901001847/logopedia/images/9/95/Windows_1.0_1985.jpg)
I go, in order, Windows 7 or 8, pad printed Windows 2.0, pad printed Win 95, blank.
+1 for period accurate logo
But even on the windows key, the pad printing will eventually wear off (or just start looking bad). I still believe that blank (or, although I don't really like the logos, win7 or win8 doubleshot) is the way to go. We currently have people who want the win1.0 logo, win95, win7 and win8. Only a single winkey will be included, so about half the people will be unhappy with the logo no matter which one the set goes with. While it would be the best case to have the different logos as options, this is unfortunately not happening so I believe it would be best to stay OS and era neutral and go with blanks.
There will still be a slight difference in aesthetics and, more noticable, texture. I don't know how long the winkey printing would last, but even a "long time" doesn't sound that good as there will be no way to get replacements, as this will most likely be the only run ever, while doubleshot/blank will last practically forever.
Blank looks like **** wwith a set. I'd rather have a less than perfect pad printed logo than a blank key. Blank keys mixed with printed are aesthetically unpleasant and are a instant killer of a set for me. The best option, IMO, is doing a pad printed cap, be it the accurate 1.0 or 95, and a doubleshot.
But this is not possible, as no new keycaps will be added, so only a single design will be included. You'd need at least 2 printed versions to make most people happy, which is why I suggested blanks.
It's possible if intelli78 will add the keys.
As I said before, it's a tough pill to swallow to admit you need to change something once you say it's locked in. But sometimes you have to swallow your pride and just do it, for the sake of the buy reaching MOQ.
Well, he did specifically say that he would not add any additional keys, but he might change his mind, as we really aren't coming to an agreement and a lot of people would be unhappy with every single option, and we do have to meet the MOQ...
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 06 March 2015, 15:35:15
And I think you're missing the point I'm trying to make. A blank key has a larger negative impact on a set than a slightly off legend. Blank keys tend to be a bigger deal breaker for people.
Post by: Schrikvis on Fri, 06 March 2015, 15:48:54
It'd subtract quite a bit from the otherwise super high quality, at least to me.
There needs to be a balance between keeping it historically accurate and attractive to as many people as possible.
Keeping it blank would be playing it safe; the actual keyboard never had a winkey in the first place, after all, and if they did it would be blank.
The GMK Dolch GB also went with a blank winkey, as the actual Dolch keyboard never had a windows/meta key.
Post by: whentheclouds on Fri, 06 March 2015, 20:40:10
Pretty sure the context key is already double shot.even so, would you really want a win8 logo next to an offcentered retro menu logo?
i can't speak for intelli but if i were in his shoes i'd just say **** it and run the GB as is, like how he solved the blue vs teal debate. having people fighting over the windows key of all things, so close to the start date, must be frustrating to say the least. as a buyer though, i wouldn't mind spending an extra $3-4 so everyone is happy.
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 06 March 2015, 21:06:32
Pretty sure the context key is already double shot.even so, would you really want a win8 logo next to an offcentered retro menu logo?
Yes, I would. The Windows 8 logo is closer to the time appropriate Windows 1.0 logo than the Win 95 logo.
having people fighting over the windows key of all things, so close to the start date, must be frustrating to say the least. as a buyer though, i wouldn't mind spending an extra $3-4 so everyone is happy.
Is it frustrating, yes, but when you have a massive MOQ, something like the Windows key can be huge. You need to keep the price low but also make sure it's something that people will buy. That's why JD and I are pushing for additional modern Winkeys alongside whatever pad printed retro one. It's a marginal cost increase, but it keeps those who would otherwise abandon ship. It's a much better plan than a blank Windows key which I know more people are vocally against than an odd Winkey.
Post by: whentheclouds on Fri, 06 March 2015, 21:21:49
agreed about blanks, they're a ****ty, half assed compromise that shouldn't even be considered.
Post by: bueller on Sat, 07 March 2015, 00:58:11
Blanks hurt us, people will drop out. Pad printing, same.
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 07 March 2015, 01:04:58
Adding 2 keys to this set will only increase the number of orders we get, there is no way I can see it hurting us. People who are already spending over a hundred dollars on a set aren't going to suddenly bail because it costs $116 instead of $115.
Blanks hurt us, people will drop out. Pad printing, same.
(http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/absolutely_right_zoolander.gif)
Post by: LechnerDE on Sat, 07 March 2015, 14:35:49
Whatever you do, don't do blanks please. It will look so freaking odd on an otherwise perfect set. The human eye will immediately spot a key that is supposed to have a legend and it will drive me crazy...
Therefore I totally agree with nubbinator. Personally I have no problem with paying a little more to have options. but I can see why Intelli doesn't wanna change things and keep them as cheap as possible.
I'd be fine with pad printing, but if there is a possibility for a double shot legend I'd say go for it :thumb:
Post by: intelli78 on Sat, 07 March 2015, 17:25:59
Colors: sticking with blue 7694 C and gray 7543 C.. For teal we will use 315 M. Compare to 5473 C, what it'll be replacing. I selected 315 M out of at least 50-60 new alternatives, it's the best one. Here's a pic, but if I have learned anything so far, it's that matching computer colors and IRL colors is almost impossible, and completely impossible when dealing with multiple peoples' monitors. So have a look, notice the increased blue values vs. the old chip, but please remember there are lots of factors between what you're seeing and what I have IRL. But trust me, 315 M is a dope color.
(http://i.imgur.com/mDqLWRZ.jpg)
For the winkey: We will get rid of the pad printed 95 logo and do a doubleshot Win 7 logo (http://i.imgur.com/Hipqe7Q.png). We will also use the corresponding Win 7 menu doubleshot. The only reason I am changing this is because I agree that a few pad printed keys will become a problem in the Massdrop comments.
Sorry to all the bros who wanted the 95 logo. I did too. The Win7 is the next most attractive logo, not as timeless but nowhere near as terrible as Win8.
To anyone who is going to b1tch and threaten to drop their order because of it: please try to think about the big picture and if the winkey is really going to ruin your enjoyment of the whole set. I personally prefer 95 but I know I'm not gonna let this ruin my fun. Honestly I don't see how one key can make or break a once-in-a-lifetime set like this. And if you decide it does ruin everything for you... well... GTFO ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm also going to tweak 2 other things.
- Scrap the Fn. I reluctantly left it in when discussing the set with Photekq earlier but it doesn't belong. What I wanted to achieve with this set was to minimize the number of keys while still allowing people to cover as many common layouts as possible. How? Through compromises on legends. For example this set will cover Filco 87/104, winkeyless, 1800, HHKB, Pure, MX Mini, and moar. Not all legends are perfect, but it saves 10-20 keys and makes the MOQ actually reachable.. The Fn doesn't help this goal. It's only relevant to HHKB and Pure style layouts, and for those you can use the up arrow instead.
- Turn the 2 spare gray spacebars into teal spacebars. I am not going to offer any spare gray spacebars at all. For some reason spacebars have come to be seen as "more important" replacement keys than any other keys, worthy of being offered on their own. Well, the fact is, by the time your spacebar starts to show noticeable shine, so will some of your alphas. And it hardly makes sense to replace your spacebar with a a pristine one while you still have a bunch of other shiny keys. So, we'll turn them into teal spacebars which are much more badass and should be made while we have the chance. Also, I personally think replacement spacebars are only enabling and perpetuating anti-shine histrionics. Almost every product you own and use shows wear. Wallet, phone, car, computer, etc., and people don't flip out over that. For some reason we have become a bunch of Nancies with regard to GMK shine. I say embrace the shine. If your precious brain really can't handle the idea of that, then I suggest buying 2 sets, one to use and one to safely stored in your ass.
I have thought about counterarguments. Maybe there is some obscure layout the Fn will help, maybe Massdrop people will complain about no spare spacebars, etc. Well, I am willing to take the risks.
No moar changes will be made, do not ask!! I hope to have the drop up as soon as the end of the week.
Post by: monotagary on Sat, 07 March 2015, 17:34:48
Alright, I have received the new color chips and made some decisions.
Colors: sticking with blue 7694 C and gray 7543 C.. For teal we will use 315 M. Compare to 5473 C, what it'll be replacing. I selected 315 M out of at least 50-60 new alternatives, it's the best one. Here's a pic, but if I have learned anything so far, it's that matching computer colors and IRL colors is almost impossible, and completely impossible when dealing with multiple peoples' monitors. So have a look, notice the increased blue values vs. the old chip, but please remember there are lots of factors between what you're seeing and what I have IRL. But trust me, 315 M is a dope color.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/mDqLWRZ.jpg)
For the winkey: We will get rid of the pad printed 95 logo and do a doubleshot Win 7 logo (http://i.imgur.com/Hipqe7Q.png). We will also use the corresponding Win 7 menu doubleshot. The only reason I am changing this is because I agree that a few pad printed keys will become a problem in the Massdrop comments.
Sorry to all the bros who wanted the 95 logo. I did too. The Win7 is the next most attractive logo, not as timeless but nowhere near as terrible as Win8.
To anyone who is going to b1tch and threaten to drop their order because of it: please try to think about the big picture and if the winkey is really going to ruin your enjoyment of the whole set. I personally prefer 95 but I know I'm not gonna let this ruin my fun. Honestly I don't see how one key can make or break a once-in-a-lifetime set like this. And if you decide it does ruin everything for you... well... GTFO ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm also going to tweak 2 other things.
- Scrap the Fn. I reluctantly left it in when discussing the set with Photekq earlier but it doesn't belong. What I wanted to achieve with this set was to minimize the number of keys while still allowing people to cover as many common layouts as possible. How? Through compromises on legends. For example this set will cover Filco 87/104, winkeyless, 1800, HHKB, Pure, MX Mini, and moar. Not all legends are perfect, but it saves 10-20 keys and makes the MOQ actually reachable.. The Fn doesn't help this goal. It's only relevant to HHKB and Pure style layouts, and for those you can use the up arrow instead.
- Turn the 2 gray spacebars into teal spacebars. I am not going to offer any spare gray spacebars at all. For some reason spacebars have come to be seen as "more important" replacement keys than any other keys, worthy of being offered on their own. Well, the fact is, by the time your spacebar starts to show noticeable shine, so will some of your alphas. And it hardly makes sense to replace your spacebar with a a pristine one while you still have a bunch of other shiny keys. So, we'll turn them into teal spacebars which are much more badass and should be made while we have the chance. Also, I personally think replacement spacebars are only enabling and perpetuating anti-shine histrionics. Almost every product you own and use shows wear. Wallet, phone, car, computer, etc., and people don't flip out over that. For some reason we have become a bunch of Nancies with regard to GMK shine. I say embrace the shine. If your precious brain really can't handle the idea of that, then I suggest buying 2 sets, one to use and one to safely stored in your ass.
I have thought about counterarguments. Maybe there is some obscure layout the Fn will help, maybe Massdrop people will complain about no spare spacebars, etc. Well, I am willing to take the risks.
No moar changes will be made, do not ask!! I hope to have the drop up as soon as the end of the week.
I think it sounds great intelli, you've worked really hard on this GB and I'm hoping that we can all work together to make it work. I think the colors look great and I think that your compromises are great and most people should be happy.
Post by: jdcarpe on Sat, 07 March 2015, 17:38:41
And good compromise on the winkey. I think that is 100% the way to go.
Teal spacebars? What kind of madness is this?!?! Seriously, spacebars match the alphas, always and forever. I don't even care about spacebar shine, and this makes me question your sanity. ;)
Post by: intelli78 on Sat, 07 March 2015, 17:39:32
Teal spacebars? What kind of madness is this?!?! Seriously, spacebars match the alphas, always and forever. I don't even care about spacebar shine, and this makes me question your sanity. ;)
The 2 spare spacebars at the bottom of the render. There will be 4 total just like before, but 2 will be teal instead of all 4 gray.
- Gray 6.25x
- Gray 7x
- Teal 6.25x
- Teal 7x
Post by: jdcarpe on Sat, 07 March 2015, 17:40:21
Teal spacebars? What kind of madness is this?!?! Seriously, spacebars match the alphas, always and forever. I don't even care about spacebar shine, and this makes me question your sanity. ;)
The 2 spare spacebars at the bottom of the render. There will be 4 total just like before, but 2 will be teal instead of all 4 gray.
Sure, sure. But it's still crazy, I tell ya.
Post by: intelli78 on Sat, 07 March 2015, 17:49:43
Sure, sure. But it's still crazy, I tell ya.
(http://i.imgur.com/xxwlG7m.jpg)
Post by: whentheclouds on Sat, 07 March 2015, 17:51:38
Post by: user 18 on Sat, 07 March 2015, 17:52:55
Win7 logo is my favourite windows logo, and I love that colour. Much want.
Post by: bueller on Sat, 07 March 2015, 17:53:47
Cheers for putting up with all these suggestions man, this set will be awesome.
Post by: pr0ximity on Sat, 07 March 2015, 17:58:48
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sat, 07 March 2015, 18:40:52
Thank you for the changes with the Winkeys. I think that's the wisest move.
You've put a TON of work into this, and we are all soooo appreciative. Thank you!
Post by: Heliosphere on Sat, 07 March 2015, 18:42:23
Post by: exitfire401 on Sat, 07 March 2015, 18:45:51
Post by: feizor on Sat, 07 March 2015, 19:00:53
Post by: Fnzzy on Sat, 07 March 2015, 19:07:52
Oh no, my bank account does not look as amazing! :(
Post by: strict on Sat, 07 March 2015, 19:52:31
Post by: stoic-lemon on Sat, 07 March 2015, 19:58:42
Post by: Den441 on Sat, 07 March 2015, 20:09:06
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Sat, 07 March 2015, 20:15:46
and figure out what board is worthy of these caps.
That's exactly my concern now. :D
Post by: CommonCurt on Sat, 07 March 2015, 21:11:14
Love the colors, and good choice for the win keys. If you're not going to go with the Win95 logo then I think Win7 is the second best choice.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sat, 07 March 2015, 21:14:13
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 07 March 2015, 21:37:42
Excellent way to resolve the situation, intelli. :thumb: I still think that threatening to pull out of a buy like this over one key is ridiculous, but I think your solution will make the most people happy as possible. And some custom color spacebars? I agree with JD that it's insane to use those with this set, but they should be some nice accents for other sets. :D
You have to think like the masses Hoff. It'd be a no go for me with a blank winkey, so I'm glad for the resolution. I would still have gladly been in with pad printed, though I'd prefer doubleshot. That said, you have to remember that on Massdrop, you're largely dealing with the Reddit type crowd and the even less informed. A mixed set could have been devastating since people think of the crappy pad printing that wears off in a year. You have to do everything you can to make sure you can hit that MOQ.
I do wish intelli kept his pad printed cap and just added the doubleshot, but I get the change and respect him for it.
Post by: sethk_ on Sat, 07 March 2015, 21:39:37
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sat, 07 March 2015, 21:42:31
Excellent way to resolve the situation, intelli. :thumb: I still think that threatening to pull out of a buy like this over one key is ridiculous, but I think your solution will make the most people happy as possible. And some custom color spacebars? I agree with JD that it's insane to use those with this set, but they should be some nice accents for other sets. :D
You have to think like the masses Hoff. It'd be a no go for me with a blank winkey, so I'm glad for the resolution. I would still have gladly been in with pad printed, though I'd prefer doubleshot. That said, you have to remember that on Massdrop, you're largely dealing with the Reddit type crowd and the even less informed. A mixed set could have been devastating since people think of the crappy pad printing that wears off in a year. You have to do everything you can to make sure you can hit that MOQ.
I do wish intelli kept his pad printed cap and just added the doubleshot, but I get the change and respect him for it.
I do understand that logic. :) It seemed like a lot of people here were complaining though, and it is a valid complaint but not a reason to opt out of the set IMO (obviously I can't truly judge how you spend your money though ;) ). I really dislike the idea of a blank winkey, but I would have still bought the set since there's no second chance at this.
Post by: dyrdevil on Sat, 07 March 2015, 23:21:26
As a Pure layout user I agree on losing the fn, I actually kind of prefer the way the up arrow looks in that location anyway. And we're a pretty small subset of the mechanical world so probably doesn't affect too many people.
Cheers for putting up with all these suggestions man, this set will be awesome.
Out of curiosity, where do people put their function keys on a 60% board if not in that location? Would it take the place of a menu key?
Post by: intelli78 on Sat, 07 March 2015, 23:55:43
Quote
The guys duplicating the color after it has yellowed to teal are being silly. The original bluer color was really fantastic (I looked at the bottom of a cap). The new color is going to look much worse after it yellows I’m guessing.
(http://i.imgur.com/Cd03Vmm.png)
Post by: reformingpanda on Sun, 08 March 2015, 00:11:00
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Sun, 08 March 2015, 00:32:43
I'm starting to have more planned/coming sets than boards. I love it!
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sun, 08 March 2015, 00:45:24
QuoteThe new color is going to look much worse after it yellows I’m guessing.
Except for the part where that won't happen...
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 08 March 2015, 00:46:20
QuoteThe new color is going to look much worse after it yellows I’m guessing.
Except for the part where that won't happen...
Because no more bromination. Yay!
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sun, 08 March 2015, 00:46:56
QuoteThe new color is going to look much worse after it yellows I’m guessing.
Except for the part where that won't happen...
Because no more bromination. Yay!
:llama:
Post by: Heliosphere on Sun, 08 March 2015, 01:27:50
QuoteThe new color is going to look much worse after it yellows I�m guessing.
Except for the part where that won't happen...
Because no more bromination. Yay!
Are modern ABS formulations more resistant to UV damage?
Post by: tbc on Sun, 08 March 2015, 01:49:34
but wouldn't the best way be to include ONE padded win95 and ONE doubleshot win8? afterwards, people just trade the one they dom't want for one they do.
no, i'm not trying to say that intelli should seriously consider this for this MD buy, but food for thought yes?
Post by: intelli78 on Sun, 08 March 2015, 03:17:17
please believe me when i say that for once, i'm not trying to troll here.
but wouldn't the best way be to include ONE padded win95 and ONE doubleshot win8? afterwards, people just trade the one they dom't want for one they do.
no, i'm not trying to say that intelli should seriously consider this for this MD buy, but food for thought yes?
It's a cute idea but it would be a disaster in practice.
Post by: bueller on Sun, 08 March 2015, 03:24:47
please believe me when i say that for once, i'm not trying to troll here.
but wouldn't the best way be to include ONE padded win95 and ONE doubleshot win8? afterwards, people just trade the one they dom't want for one they do.
no, i'm not trying to say that intelli should seriously consider this for this MD buy, but food for thought yes?
It's a cute idea but it would be a disaster in practice.
Yeah people on MD would probably lose their ****.
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 08 March 2015, 03:59:57
Because no more bromination. Yay!Except for the part where that won't happen...QuoteThe guys duplicating the color after it has yellowed to teal are being silly. The original bluer color was really fantastic (I looked at the bottom of a cap). The new color is going to look much worse after it yellows I’m guessing.
Got a source on that? I’ve seen originally white ABS keycaps from circa 2010 which were yellowed to a nice orange color, presumably due to BFRs in the plastic mix. I know the EU bans certain uses of BFRs, but I’m not sure use in ABS keycaps falls into any of those. Does GMK have a statement about not using flame retardants in their plastic anymore? Google turns up zero sources with any information about GMK and yellowing plastic.
Anyway, I still maintain the original blue color of those Adler keycaps is quite a bit nicer than the yellowed version, though it has certainly aged better than many other ABS colors from the 80s.
Either way, the marketing copy on keychatter.com is super silly, even after you get past the first few Fifty Shades of Gray paragraphs: “thanks to a serendipitous flaw in the plastic mixture, they aged over time to a beautiful teal color [...] After long negotiations, GMK, a German electronic design firm that now owns the original Cherry keycap molds and manufacturing equipment, has agreed to produce 100% authentic replicas of the Triumph Adler Dario 286 keycap set. Because GMK has to carefully mix and replicate the unique teal granulate [...]”.
(a) This isn’t a “serendipitous flaw”, it’s just the totally normal expected behavior of BFR-filled ABS plastics. (b) This revival is obviously not a “100% authentic replica”. (c) “Granulate” isn’t even a noun... wtf is a “unique teal granulate”?
All the best to all you “goth sex man-god politician and keycap deities” out there though.
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 08 March 2015, 04:22:02
Post by: LechnerDE on Sun, 08 March 2015, 05:35:54
Now the only "problem" left for me is to decide whether to buy 1 or 2 sets :p
Post by: ramnes on Sun, 08 March 2015, 11:39:10
Buy a UV lamp
Throw UVs on that set
???
Profit
Post by: cjhard on Sun, 08 March 2015, 12:21:41
Because no more bromination. Yay!Except for the part where that won't happen...QuoteThe guys duplicating the color after it has yellowed to teal are being silly. The original bluer color was really fantastic (I looked at the bottom of a cap). The new color is going to look much worse after it yellows I’m guessing.
Got a source on that? I’ve seen originally white ABS keycaps from circa 2010 which were yellowed to a nice orange color, presumably due to BFRs in the plastic mix. I know the EU bans certain uses of BFRs, but I’m not sure use in ABS keycaps falls into any of those. Does GMK have a statement about not using flame retardants in their plastic anymore? Google turns up zero sources with any information about GMK and yellowing plastic.
Anyway, I still maintain the original blue color of those Adler keycaps is quite a bit nicer than the yellowed version, though it has certainly aged better than many other ABS colors from the 80s.
Either way, the marketing copy on keychatter.com is super silly, even after you get past the first few Fifty Shades of Gray paragraphs: “thanks to a serendipitous flaw in the plastic mixture, they aged over time to a beautiful teal color [...] After long negotiations, GMK, a German electronic design firm that now owns the original Cherry keycap molds and manufacturing equipment, has agreed to produce 100% authentic replicas of the Triumph Adler Dario 286 keycap set. Because GMK has to carefully mix and replicate the unique teal granulate [...]”.
(a) This isn’t a “serendipitous flaw”, it’s just the totally normal expected behavior of BFR-filled ABS plastics. (b) This revival is obviously not a “100% authentic replica”. (c) “Granulate” isn’t even a noun... wtf is a “unique teal granulate”?
All the best to all you “goth sex man-god politician and keycap deities” out there though.
You can get the closer-to-authentic sky blue mods from this buy (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=66668.0) once it's live. I also like the authentic blue of the TA Dario 286, but I want this kit anyway. I haven't decided if I'll also grab an Olivetti kit for the CP/V4 alphas, but you can find it here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69265.0) and combine it with the N5 mods to get a fresher TA Dario 286 replica.
Post by: jonathanyu on Sun, 08 March 2015, 13:01:45
Because no more bromination. Yay!Except for the part where that won't happen...QuoteThe guys duplicating the color after it has yellowed to teal are being silly. The original bluer color was really fantastic (I looked at the bottom of a cap). The new color is going to look much worse after it yellows I’m guessing.
Got a source on that? I’ve seen originally white ABS keycaps from circa 2010 which were yellowed to a nice orange color, presumably due to BFRs in the plastic mix. I know the EU bans certain uses of BFRs, but I’m not sure use in ABS keycaps falls into any of those. Does GMK have a statement about not using flame retardants in their plastic anymore? Google turns up zero sources with any information about GMK and yellowing plastic.
Anyway, I still maintain the original blue color of those Adler keycaps is quite a bit nicer than the yellowed version, though it has certainly aged better than many other ABS colors from the 80s.
Either way, the marketing copy on keychatter.com is super silly, even after you get past the first few Fifty Shades of Gray paragraphs: “thanks to a serendipitous flaw in the plastic mixture, they aged over time to a beautiful teal color [...] After long negotiations, GMK, a German electronic design firm that now owns the original Cherry keycap molds and manufacturing equipment, has agreed to produce 100% authentic replicas of the Triumph Adler Dario 286 keycap set. Because GMK has to carefully mix and replicate the unique teal granulate [...]”.
(a) This isn’t a “serendipitous flaw”, it’s just the totally normal expected behavior of BFR-filled ABS plastics. (b) This revival is obviously not a “100% authentic replica”. (c) “Granulate” isn’t even a noun... wtf is a “unique teal granulate”?
All the best to all you “goth sex man-god politician and keycap deities” out there though.
You can get the closer-to-authentic sky blue mods from this buy (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=66668.0) once it's live. I also like the authentic blue of the TA Dario 286, but I want this kit anyway. I haven't decided if I'll also grab an Olivetti kit for the CP/V4 alphas, but you can find it here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69265.0) and combine it with the N5 mods to get a fresher TA Dario 286 replica.
The N5 mods only have enough keys for 60% keyboard.
Post by: cjhard on Sun, 08 March 2015, 13:18:19
Post by: jonathanyu on Sun, 08 March 2015, 14:09:06
Oh whoops... I forget I'm a minority. Sorry, I don't have any solutions for fullsize folks :(
For TKL, you can buy the N5 mods set, 8 N5 esc, 4 N5 wasd set, 1 N5 arror set. Legend will be all messed up though.
Post by: intelli78 on Sun, 08 March 2015, 15:00:26
Got a source on that? I’ve seen originally white ABS keycaps from circa 2010 which were yellowed to a nice orange color, presumably due to BFRs in the plastic mix. I know the EU bans certain uses of BFRs, but I’m not sure use in ABS keycaps falls into any of those. Does GMK have a statement about not using flame retardants in their plastic anymore? Google turns up zero sources with any information about GMK and yellowing plastic.
Anyway, I still maintain the original blue color of those Adler keycaps is quite a bit nicer than the yellowed version, though it has certainly aged better than many other ABS colors from the 80s.
Either way, the marketing copy on keychatter.com is super silly, even after you get past the first few Fifty Shades of Gray paragraphs: “thanks to a serendipitous flaw in the plastic mixture, they aged over time to a beautiful teal color [...] After long negotiations, GMK, a German electronic design firm that now owns the original Cherry keycap molds and manufacturing equipment, has agreed to produce 100% authentic replicas of the Triumph Adler Dario 286 keycap set. Because GMK has to carefully mix and replicate the unique teal granulate [...]”.
(a) This isn’t a “serendipitous flaw”, it’s just the totally normal expected behavior of BFR-filled ABS plastics. (b) This revival is obviously not a “100% authentic replica”. (c) “Granulate” isn’t even a noun... wtf is a “unique teal granulate”?
All the best to all you “goth sex man-god politician and keycap deities” out there though.
:confused:
One or two other people said at the beginning of the thread that I should have used bright blue. It made no sense then and it still doesn't now. Regardless of how the set looked when fresh, it's iconic and beautiful precisely because of the teal. The teal is the entire raison d'etre of the set. If you want to make GMK Raindrop, that's great, but it's not an alternative to this. It sounds like you just don't like teal, in which case this is definitely the wrong buy for you. (Correct solution: click "back")
Also, whether or not current GMK formulations will yellow (and I'll note I've never seen a GMK set that's yellowed in any way so far), that's not a problem exclusive to this GB. You might as well go into every other GMK thread and warn them their colors may not look good in the future. That would, of course, make no sense whatsoever--and you're not doing it--so why bring it up here?
Expected behavior or not, of course it was a serendipitous flaw, at least for anyone who finds beauty in the teal (again, if you don't, nobody is forcing you to join the buy). With a better formulation, it'd never have aged the way it did, and this only adds to the mystique of the set. And of course it's authentic, being manufactured on the original equipment.
As far as I can tell you just came here to be pedantic and grind an axe (? not sure why, I have never been anything but respectful to you). I hope it's out of your system and this post has cleared things up for you.
Post by: sirisaac1982 on Sun, 08 March 2015, 15:12:00
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 08 March 2015, 15:53:19
:confused:I think you’re mistaking my intended tone, which is mostly :P rather than >:D
Since you anonymously quoted my comment from a totally different place with some movie screencap, I thought I’d reply. I don’t have any problem with your group buy here. I’m sure it’ll look lovely and all the people buying keycaps will greatly enjoy them. I personally like white and blue better than yellowish and teal, but the latter also has its charm. GMK makes great stuff, if a bit pricey.
Anyway, I’m honestly curious about the BFRs; there seem to be several people 100% convinced that the plastic blends GMK uses are BFR-free, different from the ones Cherry used to use, but I can’t find any evidence about it anywhere online. Has someone asked GMK about that, or is there some other good source?
[Finally, no, I’m not interested in buying any of these myself. I don’t even like Cherry switches or standard IBM layout keyboards. ;D]
Post by: intelli78 on Sun, 08 March 2015, 16:09:19
I am interested to know as well. I'll ask next time I speak w them.
Post by: jabbon on Sun, 08 March 2015, 16:17:24
:confused:I think you�re mistaking my intended tone, which is mostly :P rather than >:D
Since you anonymously quoted my comment from a totally different place with some movie screencap, I thought I�d reply. I don�t have any problem with your group buy here. I�m sure it�ll look lovely and all the people buying keycaps will greatly enjoy them. I personally like white and blue better than yellowish and teal, but the latter also has its charm. GMK makes great stuff, if a bit pricey.
Anyway, I�m honestly curious about the BFRs; there seem to be several people 100% convinced that the plastic blends GMK uses are BFR-free, different from the ones Cherry used to use, but I can�t find any evidence about it anywhere online. Has someone asked GMK about that, or is there some other good source?
[Finally, no, I�m not interested in buying any of these myself. I don�t even like Cherry switches or standard IBM layout keyboards. ;D]
Interested on possible use of BFR by GMK?
Option1: Go and ask GMK for the document called "CE Declaration of Conformity" of the WEI KEyboards (GMK made). Check each of the "EU Directives" included and the harmonized standards used for the product, then go and review each of those standards looking for the specific Safety requirement regarding "flame retardants" and if by the time this standards were aplicable (basically the date in which the DoC was issued) it was mandatory to have a certain % of BFR on ABS made electronics. Then the BFR topic will be over.
Option2: Ask GMK directly "guys do you use any flame retardant on your products?"
Option3: Go and check REACH and its compliance requirements for BFR's and ABS.
Using GMK BFR in google, obviously, won't bring you any result...unless you know where to seach.
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 08 March 2015, 16:32:24
Interested on possible use of BFR by GMK?All of your 3 options sound like a lot of work. I typed some quick queries into google because I was just slightly curious and I assumed, given the apparent certainty of several previous posters here, that there would be some prior discussion of this topic on geekhack or some similar venue, including an authoritative answer. I was surprised to not find one, but I don’t actually care enough to go research in depth. Anyway, y’all can feel free to ignore me now. I don’t plan to stick around this thread, since it’s not all that personally relevant to me.
Option1: [...]MoreGo and ask GMK for the document called "CE Declaration of Conformity" of the WEI KEyboards (GMK made). Check each of the "EU Directives" included and the harmonized standards used for the product, then go and review each of those standards looking for the specific Safety requirement regarding "flame retardants" and if by the time this standards were aplicable (basically the date in which the DoC was issued) it was mandatory to have a certain % of BFR on ABS made electronics. Then the BFR topic will be over.
Option2: Ask GMK directly "guys do you use any flame retardant on your products?"
Option3: Go and check REACH and its compliance requirements for BFR's and ABS.
Using GMK BFR in google, obviously, won't bring you any result...unless you know where to seach.
Post by: Den441 on Sun, 08 March 2015, 22:56:15
Post by: bueller on Sun, 08 March 2015, 23:13:04
I suggest those who like the original colorway keep watch on the GMK Uniqey site. Once that is up and running you should be able to order a keyboard from GMK with colors of your own choosing.
Possibly. Unless you've heard something that the rest of us missed, as far as I was aware they'd only announced custom keyboards.
Post by: Elrick on Mon, 09 March 2015, 02:58:48
I think this set looks great. With the intended colours. I'd be all over a GB for it. :thumb:
Had a second look of your colours on the FRONT page of this future Group Buy and I have to say very NICE indeed.
This takes me back to the glory days of these babies in the mid to late 80's. This should be a real sweet GB if run, lots of beautiful keys to fill out 95% of keyboards out there.
PLEASE don't ever decide to offer any RGB colours, then it fails to be a Group Buy anymore, it then becomes a buy-in for real cheap bastards ONLY. You've got a few GMK GB's degenerating into failed monstrosities of RGB and spacers instead of a successful full key-set. Would rather have a completely failed GB then see it zombiefied into the walking RGB coloured dead >:( .
Post by: kacase on Thu, 12 March 2015, 11:37:30
Post by: Doppelganger on Thu, 12 March 2015, 12:55:45
Post by: user 18 on Thu, 12 March 2015, 16:29:23
Post by: Doppelganger on Thu, 12 March 2015, 17:10:23
Post by: whentheclouds on Thu, 12 March 2015, 17:23:14
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 12 March 2015, 17:24:12
^ That is understandable, although I work in the design business and know there are Pantone colors that would better match the slightly darker teal hue of the original! I mean it is nice, I am just saying it's not a great match is all.
Unless you have the original in front of you, you can't really say that.
Post by: hjc1710 on Thu, 12 March 2015, 17:47:01
^ That is understandable, although I work in the design business and know there are Pantone colors that would better match the slightly darker teal hue of the original! I mean it is nice, I am just saying it's not a great match is all.Yea, throw out the color code for us, there's a good chance it is one of the ~15 or so color codes that intelli actually got samples of and reviewed personally/physically.
Post by: Doppelganger on Fri, 13 March 2015, 10:35:50
if you think you have a good idea to contribute, feel free to elaborate
I would have to get a Pantone book in front of me ;D I am sure you'd need physical samples though. It's one thing to pick a Pantone color out of a book and another to see it applied to the plastics in hand.
Then again, someone above made a good point by saying "if you don't have the original in front of you, you can't really say that".
Post by: whentheclouds on Fri, 13 March 2015, 11:18:51
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 13 March 2015, 14:26:33
Post by: LechnerDE on Fri, 13 March 2015, 14:29:53
Beast update: 3 custom colors approved. Drop tentatively starting end of this upcoming week or next.
**** just got real :eek:
Post by: radio_killah on Fri, 13 March 2015, 14:30:16
Beast update: 3 custom colors approved. Drop tentatively starting end of this upcoming week or next.
How long do you think the buy period will be open for? People are going to need recovery time after Hyperfuse
Post by: Joey Quinn on Fri, 13 March 2015, 14:34:26
Beast update: 3 custom colors approved. Drop tentatively starting end of this upcoming week or next.
Sweet!
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 13 March 2015, 14:38:14
How long do you think the buy period will be open for? People are going to need recovery time after Hyperfuse
Your wallet will have time to recover when it's dead.
Post by: strict on Fri, 13 March 2015, 14:44:12
Beast update: 3 custom colors approved. Drop tentatively starting end of this upcoming week or next.
Incredible news!! Thanks for all your hard work, intelli!
Post by: monotagary on Fri, 13 March 2015, 15:20:27
Beast update: 3 custom colors approved. Drop tentatively starting end of this upcoming week or next.
Holy ****. This is it. It's happening.
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Fri, 13 March 2015, 17:23:35
So glad I didn't pick up a third HyperFuse. Definitely gonna be getting 2 of these though.How long do you think the buy period will be open for? People are going to need recovery time after Hyperfuse
Your wallet will have time to recover when it's dead.
Post by: Willyc277 on Fri, 13 March 2015, 17:28:05
Beast update: 3 custom colors approved. Drop tentatively starting end of this upcoming week or next.
Is this going to run via massdrop?
In for a set for sure! :thumb:
Post by: monotagary on Fri, 13 March 2015, 17:29:11
Beast update: 3 custom colors approved. Drop tentatively starting end of this upcoming week or next.
Is this going to run via massdrop?
In for a set for sure! :thumb:
Yes, for this one we are going through massdrop to get the big numbers.
Post by: Willyc277 on Fri, 13 March 2015, 17:31:03
Beast update: 3 custom colors approved. Drop tentatively starting end of this upcoming week or next.
Is this going to run via massdrop?
In for a set for sure! :thumb:
Yes, for this one we are going through massdrop to get the big numbers.
Sweeeeeet! I've had nothing but good experiences in the 5 or 6 drops I've been a part of.
Post by: intelli78 on Sun, 15 March 2015, 16:12:42
As per the point that nubbinator has been making, this doesn't necessarily obligate us to copy all of the original colors, for example if we determine the alpha base shade isn't quite right, we can still adjust--
however--
doing a direct plastic-to-plastic match will be the most SURE way to go, and we will know EXACTLY what we are getting. This way there can be no surprises about the hue of the teal, or about the plastic version of the color looking different than the paper color chip.
Moar updates when I get the board!
Post by: LechnerDE on Sun, 15 March 2015, 16:14:49
I thought I had used up all my hype for HyperfuseTM, but it's already back for this :p
Post by: exitfire401 on Sun, 15 March 2015, 16:17:50
OK guys solid news! I have FINALLY managed to close a deal to buy an original board, which gives us lots more flexibility! This one aged very nicely and when it arrives I am willing to send some of these caps to GMK for exact color matching, which we did not have permission to do with the loaner board.
As per the point that nubbinator has been making, this doesn't necessarily obligate us to copy all of the original colors, for example if we determine the alpha base shade isn't quite right, we can still adjust--
however--
doing a direct plastic-to-plastic match will be the most SURE way to go, and we will know EXACTLY what we are getting. This way there can be no surprises about the hue of the teal, or about the plastic version of the color looking different than the paper color chip.
Moar updates when I get the board!
I'm more excited than you can possibly imagine.
Post by: monotagary on Sun, 15 March 2015, 17:35:56
OK guys solid news! I have FINALLY managed to close a deal to buy an original board, which gives us lots more flexibility! This one aged very nicely and when it arrives I am willing to send some of these caps to GMK for exact color matching, which we did not have permission to do with the loaner board.
As per the point that nubbinator has been making, this doesn't necessarily obligate us to copy all of the original colors, for example if we determine the alpha base shade isn't quite right, we can still adjust--
however--
doing a direct plastic-to-plastic match will be the most SURE way to go, and we will know EXACTLY what we are getting. This way there can be no surprises about the hue of the teal, or about the plastic version of the color looking different than the paper color chip.
Moar updates when I get the board!
Holy crap this is big freaking news...
Post by: cjhard on Sun, 15 March 2015, 18:32:42
Post by: Joey Quinn on Sun, 15 March 2015, 18:43:58
Post by: Photekq on Sun, 15 March 2015, 18:57:26
Hey, if we reach a discount tier, can we get super cool Strg keys?
(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/a/a4/8-ball-outlook.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110722074817)
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sun, 15 March 2015, 19:46:37
Post by: intelli78 on Sun, 15 March 2015, 21:05:25
(http://i.imgur.com/hEI5NPt.jpg)
There's no doubt that the teal will be PERFECT.
The main variable I think will be the alpha base, as this set looks to have aged to a beige/tan more than a gray. When we had this discussion last time, most people, myself included, liked both but preferred the gray.
Obviously I'll need to take a look in person, but another idea occurred to me today. I have these Triumph Adler typewriter keycaps, and I think these are an absolutely perfect shade of gray, as well as w/ the right legend color:
(http://i.imgur.com/gBmkK7Y.jpg)
I'll definitely post pics with the teal mods and these alphas when I have everything, as I think that might be exactly the combo we are looking for. :thumb:
Post by: whentheclouds on Sun, 15 March 2015, 21:16:57
Post by: intelli78 on Sun, 15 March 2015, 21:23:26
it's beautiful :eek: the teal legends also look much better in your photos than on GMK renders. buti assume we'll stick to blue?nah blue is still better
I agree the blue is still better, but also I think that photo is a bit washed out. In other photos I have, the legends look much darker. Also to some degree I think it's an optical illusion, if you load it into photoshop you'll find that the legends do actually average darker than the mods in that photo.
Post by: CommonCurt on Sun, 15 March 2015, 21:26:08
Post by: whentheclouds on Sun, 15 March 2015, 21:38:33
if you load it into photoshop you'll find that the legends do actually average darker than the mods in that photo.that's an issue with saving photos on the net onto your computer, there's always some kind of alteration where the newly saved photo loses a little vibrancy in color
left: how i see it in my browser, right: how i see it in picasa
(http://i.imgur.com/V9MVcEe.png)
Post by: intelli78 on Mon, 16 March 2015, 12:08:28
This thread's TL; DR is: on-screen colors are a nightmare.
Post by: Den441 on Mon, 16 March 2015, 16:05:44
Post by: scubaste on Mon, 16 March 2015, 16:20:10
Post by: monotagary on Mon, 16 March 2015, 16:32:57
Is the new board going to effect the timeline of the GB? Or are we going to be able to get it started soon?
Post by: Fnzzy on Mon, 16 March 2015, 17:22:17
oh well I get something awesome in return!
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 16 March 2015, 17:32:59
Post by: monotagary on Mon, 16 March 2015, 17:48:27
Once this comes along I will have to get 2 sets
Gotta make sure we can hit that MOQ! and gotta have some extras of this once in a lifetime set.
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 16 March 2015, 17:54:12
Yeah, I imagine the resale value will be highOnce this comes along I will have to get 2 sets
Gotta make sure we can hit that MOQ! and gotta have some extras of this once in a lifetime set.
Post by: strict on Mon, 16 March 2015, 18:03:16
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/hEI5NPt.jpg)
The color of the mods in this pic looks perfect, if the final product matches those this set will look absolutely incredible.
The way your photos present the color of the legends makes them look very close the same color of blue/teal as the mods and I'm actually glad it looks that way because it makes me more convinced the right color for the legends is the darker blue. It will provide a better contrast against the grey alphas and makes the set look more polished and professional.
Are the legends on the double-shot win keys going to look like those purple ones posted?
Post by: hjc1710 on Mon, 16 March 2015, 22:26:15
I still think I prefer the pantone blue and grey over the alphas on the TA board though, if I'm being honest. But that new teal is perfect. :thumb:
So, I take it the release is bumped back a week? Pretty sure I gotta get two of these sets, so any prep time is good :p.
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 20 March 2015, 02:29:26
The last thing I am still trying to decide is the alpha base color. As mentioned above the teal will come from my incoming TA board, which appears to have really nice teal with plenty of blue in it, not the dark sea green seen on some boards. But we have 2 options for the alpha base:
1. Copy the TA typewriter gray I posted above. Mockup:
(http://i.imgur.com/gJXN1NG.jpg)
2. Copy the caps on my incoming TA board which are more beige. Mockup:
(http://i.imgur.com/TvXBMxk.jpg)
Final thoughts on this? I have leaned toward gray the whole time... but there's something about the beige and the yellow/brown values in it that really complement the teal well. I think the beige version looks a lot livelier and pops more, actually. I guess my opinion has changed. But I don't have a strong preference. Either one is going to be great.
Provide your input please.
On another note, I'll re-emphasize I'm really glad we're getting a real board instead of messing with Pantones. ;D I was getting pretty nervous about how those would translate to plastic and how much different the outcome might be vs. what we were aiming for, given that there'd be no second chance if things just didn't look right in the end. Sending in real caps is so much better because we know exactly what we'll get. If I could go back in time, I'd focus all efforts on obtaining real samples rather than ****ing around with other methods. This set is gonna be the greatest ever. :thumb:
Post by: Joey Quinn on Fri, 20 March 2015, 02:36:13
Post by: bueller on Fri, 20 March 2015, 02:43:52
Post by: whentheclouds on Fri, 20 March 2015, 02:56:00
Post by: stoic-lemon on Fri, 20 March 2015, 02:57:33
Thanks for all the effort you put into this. I hope we can reach that 500 mark.
Post by: whentheclouds on Fri, 20 March 2015, 03:05:25
Post by: CommonCurt on Fri, 20 March 2015, 03:07:49
Post by: Sygaldry on Fri, 20 March 2015, 03:13:45
Post by: Joey Quinn on Fri, 20 March 2015, 03:22:40
#TeamBeige :cool:
Post by: bueller on Fri, 20 March 2015, 03:25:24
Grey makes this feel like the soulfree teal set, beige is closer to how the sets look and makes it much more unique.
#TeamBeige :cool:
The teal set had white alphas though?
Post by: Joey Quinn on Fri, 20 March 2015, 03:29:11
Grey makes this feel like the soulfree teal set, beige is closer to how the sets look and makes it much more unique.
#TeamBeige :cool:
The teal set had white alphas though?
I thought it was light grey, either way I feel like going with grey is half assing this set.
Post by: anderssb on Fri, 20 March 2015, 03:29:48
Post by: LechnerDE on Fri, 20 March 2015, 04:19:09
it looks like we will get $99.99 pricing if we hit 500 :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
2 sets it is :p
Post by: tbc on Fri, 20 March 2015, 04:55:02
for starters, possibly:
1. people are editing jpg files
2. people are sending out pngs without icc profiles
i'm not sure how much of a big deal this is at this point, but just fyi.
the fix: everyone needs to calibrate their screens and use the same programs for viewing and editing. there's actually probably a lot more steps i left out.
NOTE:
absolutely DO NOT use paint.net to view or edit files. there are known issues with it and it significantly differs in how it outputs from other programs. some newer versions may or may not be fine; just use adobe.
once again, not actually telling anyone to actually do anything.
Post by: Nuum on Fri, 20 March 2015, 05:10:50
Post by: tjweir on Fri, 20 March 2015, 05:47:07
Post by: pr0ximity on Fri, 20 March 2015, 06:07:22
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 20 March 2015, 06:33:04
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 20 March 2015, 06:38:44
Post by: morpheus on Fri, 20 March 2015, 06:40:15
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 20 March 2015, 06:44:56
Post by: Khers on Fri, 20 March 2015, 06:56:58
Post by: Volvicsoda on Fri, 20 March 2015, 07:20:03
Post by: inanis on Fri, 20 March 2015, 07:26:07
Post by: billnye on Fri, 20 March 2015, 07:30:47
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Fri, 20 March 2015, 07:44:44
Is it grey or gray?That depends on where you live, the US or the UK. ;)
Post by: tjweir on Fri, 20 March 2015, 07:45:19
#TeamBeige
I should update:
#TeamBeigeWillBuyRegardless
Post by: tanker666 on Fri, 20 March 2015, 07:46:31
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Fri, 20 March 2015, 07:52:19
Why? Unless you have a calibrated monitor, no pic will be accurate to show the colors as they really are. And intelli78 finally bought the board, he knows what he's looking at.
People seems to have developed an aversion to beige colors, maybe due to the fact that in the Old Days™ almost everything in PCs was beige: keyboards, computer cases, tube monitors, you name it. But if the purpose of this keycap set is to pay tribute to those times then beige is the no-brainer choice.
Post by: tanker666 on Fri, 20 March 2015, 07:57:26
Ok bros. Looks like this is going to go live on Massdrop on Tuesday. :thumb: And some really great news: unless something unfortunate happens between now and then, it looks like we will get $99.99 pricing if we hit 500 :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: This includes everything in the mockup + cardboard box packing by GMK! AMAZE!! Massdrop is really delivering.How long will it run on MD?
The last thing I am still trying to decide is the alpha base color. As mentioned above the teal will come from my incoming TA board, which appears to have really nice teal with plenty of blue in it, not the dark sea green seen on some boards. But we have 2 options for the alpha base:
1. Copy the TA typewriter gray I posted above. Mockup:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/gJXN1NG.jpg)
2. Copy the caps on my incoming TA board which are more beige. Mockup:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/TvXBMxk.jpg)
Final thoughts on this? I have leaned toward gray the whole time... but there's something about the beige and the yellow/brown values in it that really complement the teal well. I think the beige version looks a lot livelier and pops more, actually. I guess my opinion has changed. But I don't have a strong preference. Either one is going to be great.
Provide your input please.
On another note, I'll re-emphasize I'm really glad we're getting a real board instead of messing with Pantones. ;D I was getting pretty nervous about how those would translate to plastic and how much different the outcome might be vs. what we were aiming for, given that there'd be no second chance if things just didn't look right in the end. Sending in real caps is so much better because we know exactly what we'll get. If I could go back in time, I'd focus all efforts on obtaining real samples rather than ****ing around with other methods. This set is gonna be the greatest ever. :thumb:
99.99$ means 2 sets for me :p
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 20 March 2015, 08:02:07
Post by: strict on Fri, 20 March 2015, 08:03:15
Personally I'm in the grey camp, I prefer the cooler look as it matches the mods better.
+1 for grey. It matches much better than the beige.
I will very likely end up buying two sets of these as well.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 20 March 2015, 08:04:56
Beige = warm
Are the teal mods warm or cool? Thought so. ;)
Post by: user 18 on Fri, 20 March 2015, 08:11:52
intelli78, have a mod set up a poll for you in this thread. Then people can vote whether they prefer grey or beige.
If you want one, I can set it up, just let me know.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 20 March 2015, 08:42:21
I think both will look amazing, and at this point in the process I'm inclined to trust intelli's judgement here.
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 20 March 2015, 08:47:29
Post by: Latin00032 on Fri, 20 March 2015, 08:50:51
I think the beige is better.Ok bros. Looks like this is going to go live on Massdrop on Tuesday. :thumb: And some really great news: unless something unfortunate happens between now and then, it looks like we will get $99.99 pricing if we hit 500 :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: This includes everything in the mockup + cardboard box packing by GMK! AMAZE!! Massdrop is really delivering.How long will it run on MD?
The last thing I am still trying to decide is the alpha base color. As mentioned above the teal will come from my incoming TA board, which appears to have really nice teal with plenty of blue in it, not the dark sea green seen on some boards. But we have 2 options for the alpha base:
1. Copy the TA typewriter gray I posted above. Mockup:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/gJXN1NG.jpg)
2. Copy the caps on my incoming TA board which are more beige. Mockup:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/TvXBMxk.jpg)
Final thoughts on this? I have leaned toward gray the whole time... but there's something about the beige and the yellow/brown values in it that really complement the teal well. I think the beige version looks a lot livelier and pops more, actually. I guess my opinion has changed. But I don't have a strong preference. Either one is going to be great.
Provide your input please.
On another note, I'll re-emphasize I'm really glad we're getting a real board instead of messing with Pantones. ;D I was getting pretty nervous about how those would translate to plastic and how much different the outcome might be vs. what we were aiming for, given that there'd be no second chance if things just didn't look right in the end. Sending in real caps is so much better because we know exactly what we'll get. If I could go back in time, I'd focus all efforts on obtaining real samples rather than ****ing around with other methods. This set is gonna be the greatest ever. :thumb:
99.99$ means 2 sets for me
The pure grey makes new think it looks too disinfected like a hospital.
The difference is minimal to me. I'd buy either one. :)
Post by: monotagary on Fri, 20 March 2015, 08:52:13
Post by: geniekid on Fri, 20 March 2015, 08:53:06
I vote for either grey or beige :cool:
I think both will look amazing, and at this point in the process I'm inclined to trust intelli's judgement here.
What Hoff said.
Post by: Fnzzy on Fri, 20 March 2015, 08:56:38
Post by: exitfire401 on Fri, 20 March 2015, 09:07:27
#imhereforthemodsanyway
Post by: ideus on Fri, 20 March 2015, 09:26:10
One more thing, a control 1.75u row 3 cap, full touch and stepped, to replace the caps lock would give this set a further edge compared with any available standard GMK set, only matched by the recent Ctrl+Alt's Hyper Fuse; where, Bunny added this cap to the set at the last minute, in a very wise move.
Regarding the color of the alphas, I'd say gray, beige tend to turn yellow over time, gray is a bit more stable.
Post by: Dee1 on Fri, 20 March 2015, 09:57:53
Post by: mason on Fri, 20 March 2015, 11:25:03
Post by: Latin00032 on Fri, 20 March 2015, 13:04:04
I changed my mind. "Grey!"
It will match other keyboard cases better.
Post by: dimmu on Fri, 20 March 2015, 13:15:39
Post by: Heliosphere on Fri, 20 March 2015, 13:19:19
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 20 March 2015, 13:31:13
Post by: Sygaldry on Fri, 20 March 2015, 13:38:28
Gray it is.yeeee
Post by: LechnerDE on Fri, 20 March 2015, 13:38:55
Gray it is.
Awwwwwww yeahhhhhh :cool:
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 20 March 2015, 13:44:10
Gray it is.
Yeeeeeeee
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/atGyCR5WtiA/hqdefault.jpg)
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Fri, 20 March 2015, 13:49:09
Gray it is.
(http://i.imgur.com/sf2UMje.jpg)
Post by: monotagary on Fri, 20 March 2015, 13:55:46
Gray it is.
Nice!
Post by: whentheclouds on Fri, 20 March 2015, 15:19:54
Is it grey or gray?"grey" conveys a certain degree of sorrow so it's a better choice for literary usage. in this context i prefer 'gray'
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 20 March 2015, 15:22:05
awesomeIs it grey or gray?"grey" conveys a certain degree of sorrow so it's a better choice for literary usage. in this context i prefer 'gray'
Tea. Earl Grey. Hot.
(http://i.imgur.com/eEZW8VG.jpg)
Post by: sethk_ on Fri, 20 March 2015, 15:23:44
I type grey only because it is faster than typing grayawesomeIs it grey or gray?"grey" conveys a certain degree of sorrow so it's a better choice for literary usage. in this context i prefer 'gray'
Tea. Earl Grey. Hot.
Post by: zombimuncha on Fri, 20 March 2015, 15:42:44
Through all the process of setting up this set we (almost) all have trusted intelli78 decisions. I say to trust him one more final time and go beige.
Why? Unless you have a calibrated monitor, no pic will be accurate to show the colors as they really are. And intelli78 finally bought the board, he knows what he's looking at.
People seems to have developed an aversion to beige colors, maybe due to the fact that in the Old Days™ almost everything in PCs was beige: keyboards, computer cases, tube monitors, you name it. But if the purpose of this keycap set is to pay tribute to those times then beige is the no-brainer choice.
this.
but the grey looks better on my (pretty bl**dy average-ish) monitor
Gray it is.
ok, cool!
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 20 March 2015, 15:45:54
Grey = cool
Beige = warm
Are the teal mods warm or cool? Thought so. ;)
Post by: ideus on Fri, 20 March 2015, 15:47:14
Post by: whentheclouds on Fri, 20 March 2015, 15:51:12
Tea. Earl Grey. Hot.it's based on the title of the same name right? would make sense, 'grey' sounds more elegant and fitting for a noble. the words are completely interchangeable though, those are just my personal rulesShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/eEZW8VG.jpg)
Post by: jonathanyu on Fri, 20 March 2015, 16:58:32
Post by: vax on Fri, 20 March 2015, 17:10:47
Post by: Fnzzy on Fri, 20 March 2015, 17:18:32
How are EU orders being handled? Because Germany (GMK) -> US (Massdrop) -> EU would be pretty damn stupid shipping and customs wise, no? :-X
That's how it will go. I expect at least $25 shipping to EU countries, excluding import taxes. If this was a traditional GB we could hope for someone inside germany to handle EU orders and to save a bit amount of money that way, but that would mean we can't use Massdrop for higher visibility, which we need to reach the MOQ.
Post by: strict on Fri, 20 March 2015, 17:21:14
Post by: Fnzzy on Fri, 20 March 2015, 17:22:20
Post by: jonathanyu on Fri, 20 March 2015, 17:30:54
How are EU orders being handled? Because Germany (GMK) -> US (Massdrop) -> EU would be pretty damn stupid shipping and customs wise, no? :-Xor you can find someone in the US to proxy all the EU order, and put a low value on the custom from to avoid the tax
Post by: pryedthirdeye on Fri, 20 March 2015, 19:20:07
Post by: njbair on Fri, 20 March 2015, 20:08:45
Post by: monotagary on Fri, 20 March 2015, 20:12:38
Has a final decision been reached re: blue or teal alpha legends?
Legends are blue.
Post by: njbair on Fri, 20 March 2015, 20:31:08
Thanks! It might be good to update the OP.Has a final decision been reached re: blue or teal alpha legends?
Legends are blue.
Post by: user 18 on Fri, 20 March 2015, 20:49:58
Post by: Rainbow_ on Fri, 20 March 2015, 21:13:17
Post by: Joey Quinn on Fri, 20 March 2015, 21:14:57
#TeamBeige broskies
:-*
Post by: njbair on Fri, 20 March 2015, 21:42:11
I am definitely in on this. It will be my second group buy since joining GH. The first being the hyperfuse GMK set. Now only question is should I buy one or two? :)Why not both? 1 + 2 = 3
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Fri, 20 March 2015, 22:03:01
Probably going to go in on a set or two :thumb:
Post by: morpheus on Fri, 20 March 2015, 22:37:06
I am definitely in on this. It will be my second group buy since joining GH. The first being the hyperfuse GMK set. Now only question is should I buy one or two? :)
Me too. Its seems that a golden age of group buys is beginning....
I'm in...
Post by: motherbrain on Fri, 20 March 2015, 23:29:57
Post by: monotagary on Fri, 20 March 2015, 23:38:06
I am definitely in on this. It will be my second group buy since joining GH. The first being the hyperfuse GMK set. Now only question is should I buy one or two? :)
Me too. Its seems that a golden age of group buys is beginning....
I'm in...
2015 has already proven to be one of the best years for GBs... And the year is still so young.
Post by: luckyryan333 on Sat, 21 March 2015, 02:55:35
However I just feel beige is much warmer than gray.
I'd like to feel the warmth of my fingers.
Beige... so attractive...
Post by: bazh on Sat, 21 March 2015, 04:20:09
Post by: mz/x on Sat, 21 March 2015, 05:15:12
How are EU orders being handled? Because Germany (GMK) -> US (Massdrop) -> EU would be pretty damn stupid shipping and customs wise, no? :-X
That's how it will go. I expect at least $25 shipping to EU countries, excluding import taxes. If this was a traditional GB we could hope for someone inside germany to handle EU orders and to save a bit amount of money that way, but that would mean we can't use Massdrop for higher visibility, which we need to reach the MOQ.
Hmmm... at least somebody with connection with Massdrop should find out how to label the package (legally) to avoid duty etc. That is because eventually this is a re-import. Meaning that the product was made in the EU and the buyer is re-importing it so duty should not be applicable.
Post by: cooldiscretion on Sat, 21 March 2015, 12:33:31
Post by: intelli78 on Sat, 21 March 2015, 14:04:38
I'll speak to them about this.How are EU orders being handled? Because Germany (GMK) -> US (Massdrop) -> EU would be pretty damn stupid shipping and customs wise, no? :-X
That's how it will go. I expect at least $25 shipping to EU countries, excluding import taxes. If this was a traditional GB we could hope for someone inside germany to handle EU orders and to save a bit amount of money that way, but that would mean we can't use Massdrop for higher visibility, which we need to reach the MOQ.
Hmmm... at least somebody with connection with Massdrop should find out how to label the package (legally) to avoid duty etc. That is because eventually this is a re-import. Meaning that the product was made in the EU and the buyer is re-importing it so duty should not be applicable.
Post by: avtar on Sat, 21 March 2015, 14:12:13
Post by: LechnerDE on Sat, 21 March 2015, 14:13:13
I'll speak to them about this.How are EU orders being handled? Because Germany (GMK) -> US (Massdrop) -> EU would be pretty damn stupid shipping and customs wise, no? :-X
That's how it will go. I expect at least $25 shipping to EU countries, excluding import taxes. If this was a traditional GB we could hope for someone inside germany to handle EU orders and to save a bit amount of money that way, but that would mean we can't use Massdrop for higher visibility, which we need to reach the MOQ.
Hmmm... at least somebody with connection with Massdrop should find out how to label the package (legally) to avoid duty etc. That is because eventually this is a re-import. Meaning that the product was made in the EU and the buyer is re-importing it so duty should not be applicable.
That would be really great for us filthy Europeans ;)
Post by: Buddah on Sat, 21 March 2015, 18:52:13
I'm probably going to have to buy another keyboard to put these caps on...
Post by: shower_king on Mon, 23 March 2015, 01:32:47
Post by: snipars on Mon, 23 March 2015, 05:44:35
Post by: LXXXIX on Mon, 23 March 2015, 07:44:47
So there's another GMK doubleshot set starting up tomorrow? That's wonderful, looks like a very nice set
Man this is truly becoming the year of the wallethack.
Post by: intelli78 on Mon, 23 March 2015, 13:11:27
-We are using the gray for anyone who missed my earlier post
-Waiting for final renders from GMK w/ the revised modifiers. I ended up leaving the Fn key after all so as to not change the number of keys and require a price revision.
-I am editing the Massdrop copy now, will send it to them shortly for one final review by their copywriters
-We are using their photo shoot of the loaner board (a QWERTZ) because my board is still in customs
-I've asked them to look into marking as re-imports, will push very hard to figure this out
-Should be launching tomorrow
Post by: CommonCurt on Mon, 23 March 2015, 13:16:27
Updates:
-We are using the gray for anyone who missed my earlier post
-Waiting for final renders from GMK w/ the revised modifiers. I ended up leaving the Fn key after all so as to not change the number of keys and require a price revision.
-I am editing the Massdrop copy now, will send it to them shortly for one final review by their copywriters
-We are using their photo shoot of the loaner board (a QWERTZ) because my board is still in customs
-I've asked them to look into marking as re-imports, will push very hard to figure this out
-Should be launching tomorrow
Great new, and excellent work :thumb:
Post by: heedpantsnow on Mon, 23 March 2015, 13:28:52
Updates:
-We are using the gray for anyone who missed my earlier post
-Waiting for final renders from GMK w/ the revised modifiers. I ended up leaving the Fn key after all so as to not change the number of keys and require a price revision.
-I am editing the Massdrop copy now, will send it to them shortly for one final review by their copywriters
-We are using their photo shoot of the loaner board (a QWERTZ) because my board is still in customs
-I've asked them to look into marking as re-imports, will push very hard to figure this out
-Should be launching tomorrow
You write about unhacking the wallet, then you put together such an awesome GB??! Ah! :)
Post by: Joey Quinn on Mon, 23 March 2015, 13:34:40
Post by: monotagary on Mon, 23 March 2015, 13:40:11
Now it's all up to us to meet the MOQ and get this lovely keyset made.
Post by: billnye on Mon, 23 March 2015, 14:55:56
Updates:Nyse
-We are using the gray for anyone who missed my earlier post
-Waiting for final renders from GMK w/ the revised modifiers. I ended up leaving the Fn key after all so as to not change the number of keys and require a price revision.
-I am editing the Massdrop copy now, will send it to them shortly for one final review by their copywriters
-We are using their photo shoot of the loaner board (a QWERTZ) because my board is still in customs
-I've asked them to look into marking as re-imports, will push very hard to figure this out
-Should be launching tomorrow
Post by: vax on Mon, 23 March 2015, 15:08:23
-Should be launching tomorrow
(http://proteas.microlab.ntua.gr/ksiop/phd_funny/research_in_progress__funny/Given%20your%20expertise%20in%20the%20area,%20the%20editorial%20board%20of%20Prestigious%20Journal%20would%20appreciate%20your%20comments%20on%20this%20paper%20%28First%20review%20invitation%29.gif)
Post by: LechnerDE on Mon, 23 March 2015, 15:36:16
-I've asked them to look into marking as re-imports, will push very hard to figure this out
Thank you very much :thumb:
This is very important for international orders because it means you'd basically have to pay for 1,5 sets...
Post by: ramnes on Tue, 24 March 2015, 07:42:49
Post by: wlhlm on Tue, 24 March 2015, 07:44:53
How much MD takes per set?
Ok bros. Looks like this is going to go live on Massdrop on Tuesday. :thumb: And some really great news: unless something unfortunate happens between now and then, it looks like we will get $99.99 pricing if we hit 500 :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: This includes everything in the mockup + cardboard box packing by GMK! AMAZE!! Massdrop is really delivering.
Post by: LXXXIX on Tue, 24 March 2015, 08:05:40
Post by: shower_king on Tue, 24 March 2015, 08:18:52
Post by: intelli78 on Tue, 24 March 2015, 08:39:34
Still waiting for final render, will post as soon as I can...
Post by: Belfong on Tue, 24 March 2015, 09:00:26
Post by: slickmamba on Tue, 24 March 2015, 09:01:43
Post by: strict on Tue, 24 March 2015, 09:27:40
Excited! But not excited about MD prices. Hopefully it isn't bad.
Price has already been confirmed for $100, one of the cheapest GMK sets ever.
Post by: slickmamba on Tue, 24 March 2015, 09:28:19
Excited! But not excited about MD prices. Hopefully it isn't bad.
Price has already been confirmed for $100, one of the cheapest GMK sets ever.
Oh wow! nice! :)
Post by: wlhlm on Tue, 24 March 2015, 09:30:43
Keep in mind that's only when the MOQ of 500 is reached!Excited! But not excited about MD prices. Hopefully it isn't bad.
Price has already been confirmed for $100, one of the cheapest GMK sets ever.
Oh wow! nice! :)
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 24 March 2015, 09:40:02
Keep in mind that's only when the MOQ of 500 is reached!Excited! But not excited about MD prices. Hopefully it isn't bad.
Price has already been confirmed for $100, one of the cheapest GMK sets ever.
Oh wow! nice! :)
It's 500 or nothing. There is no higher price at a lower number. 500 or bust!!!
Post by: tjweir on Tue, 24 March 2015, 09:45:17
It's 500 or nothing. There is no higher price at a lower number. 500 or bust.
It is? Oh my, crossing my fingers.
Post by: monotagary on Tue, 24 March 2015, 10:15:50
It's 500 or nothing. There is no higher price at a lower number. 500 or bust.
It is? Oh my, crossing my fingers.
Cross your fingers... and buy multiple sets.
Post by: pr0ximity on Tue, 24 March 2015, 10:20:58
Post by: bazh on Tue, 24 March 2015, 10:22:39
-I've asked them to look into marking as re-imports, will push very hard to figure this out
Thank you very much :thumb:
This is very important for international orders because it means you'd basically have to pay for 1,5 sets...
Yes, this.
Tax was never a problem back when I was in Vietnam since I never have to pay any for a single set of keycaps, but since I moved to here in the Europe, this bugs me very much :(
Post by: Latin00032 on Tue, 24 March 2015, 11:29:43
On MD, is there an opportunity to add more to your order after you've placed it? I'll be in for one at first, but if we need more to reach MOQ I'd be down to buy a few to help things along.I don't think there is. I remember trying to do that once.
They don't want people adjusting their order multiple times making the numbers jump all around.
I remember ordering something when I meant to only join if the final drop was hit. The final drop hit but there was no way to change my choice.
Post by: njbair on Tue, 24 March 2015, 11:37:46
Post by: Heliosphere on Tue, 24 March 2015, 11:57:58
On MD, is there an opportunity to add more to your order after you've placed it? I'll be in for one at first, but if we need more to reach MOQ I'd be down to buy a few to help things along.
Yes you can; it's easy. To add more to just go to your order list and click on "add another option."
Post by: njbair on Tue, 24 March 2015, 12:16:54
On MD, is there an opportunity to add more to your order after you've placed it? I'll be in for one at first, but if we need more to reach MOQ I'd be down to buy a few to help things along.
Yes you can; it's easy. To add more to just go to your order list and click on "add another option."
You're right, I forgot. You can edit the quantity...I had to place two orders though for my Infinity kits because I wanted different switch types and layouts for each one.
Post by: ATXTider on Tue, 24 March 2015, 12:21:42
Post by: monotagary on Tue, 24 March 2015, 12:29:11
Is this still going live today? I've already received my "New on Massdrop today" email, and it's not their, or on the site itself.
I'm pretty sure we will just have to wait a little bit. I trust that intelli has got this all under control.
Post by: ATXTider on Tue, 24 March 2015, 12:31:32
Is this still going live today? I've already received my "New on Massdrop today" email, and it's not their, or on the site itself.
I'm pretty sure we will just have to wait a little bit. I trust that intelli has got this all under control.
/me pants excitedly
Post by: mz/x on Tue, 24 March 2015, 12:59:49
Updates: ...Thank you so much for looking into this. I think if MD can figure it out and duty can be avoided, more people will buy it.
-I've asked them to look into marking as re-imports, will push very hard to figure this out
...
Great job!
Post by: radio_killah on Tue, 24 March 2015, 13:06:15
Post by: bazh on Tue, 24 March 2015, 13:09:01
Post by: monotagary on Tue, 24 March 2015, 13:11:55
and how about changing your shipping information after ordering? My address probably will be changed the time the keycaps be done (if it can make it) so I just want to be sure
If you contact MD support you can edit your shipping info for an order.
Post by: njbair on Tue, 24 March 2015, 13:45:55
and how about changing your shipping information after ordering? My address probably will be changed the time the keycaps be done (if it can make it) so I just want to be sure
If you contact MD support you can edit your shipping info for an order.
Heck, I even changed my order options once, like 2 weeks after the drop closed. I just sent a support request for "other" and told them I changed my mind. The order hasn't arrived yet, so I can't confirm that the warehouse will make the right change, but the person who responded to my request told me that if not just contact them and they'll make it right.
So yeah, I don't think an address change is a big problem. They really seem to have their stuff together over at Massdrop (at least in my recent experience).
Post by: Dihedral on Tue, 24 March 2015, 13:49:16
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 24 March 2015, 13:51:30
[attachimg=1]
Post by: intelli78 on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:12:20
Final render in OP. Drop should be starting in the next hour or so...
How are EU orders being handled? Because Germany (GMK) -> US (Massdrop) -> EU would be pretty damn stupid shipping and customs wise, no? :-X
That's how it will go. I expect at least $25 shipping to EU countries, excluding import taxes. If this was a traditional GB we could hope for someone inside germany to handle EU orders and to save a bit amount of money that way, but that would mean we can't use Massdrop for higher visibility, which we need to reach the MOQ.
Hmmm... at least somebody with connection with Massdrop should find out how to label the package (legally) to avoid duty etc. That is because eventually this is a re-import. Meaning that the product was made in the EU and the buyer is re-importing it so duty should not be applicable.
Checked about this. The issue is not import duties, it's VAT. Massdrop doesn't pay VAT at time of purchase, since they're in USA. Therefore the buyer still has to pay, just as if it was an internal EU sale.
Post by: intelli78 on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:19:40
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/triumph-adler-gmk-keyset/?mode=guest_open
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:20:33
Post by: wlhlm on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:20:34
Post by: Heliosphere on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:21:32
Post by: Keyzus on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:21:43
I'll just start this off and be the first to join!! :p
[attachimg=1]
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:24:38
We TA now
[attachimg=1]
Post by: intelli78 on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:26:04
It started!! :thumb:
I'll just start this off and be the first to join!! :p
(Attachment Link)
Appropriate user name!!!
Post by: vax on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:26:38
Post by: billnye on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:26:42
125 MOQexcuse me sir this is geekhack and not deskthority
We TA now
(Attachment Link)
Post by: intelli78 on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:26:45
Post by: vax on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:27:35
So do I start a new thread in the GB section? Move and retitle this one? Any mods want to chime in?
Just start a fresh one tbh.
Post by: wlhlm on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:30:23
So do I start a new thread in the GB section? Move and retitle this one? Any mods want to chime in?The clear switch cover interest check by Shadovved got moved for example.
Post by: BunnyLake on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:30:25
Post by: Keyzus on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:31:54
So do I start a new thread in the GB section? Move and retitle this one? Any mods want to chime in?
Definitely get a thread going on in the GB section, for all those people who only browse there and not the IC section.
Post by: jbondeson on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:33:38
I'm going to need more keyboards for all the keysets that will be coming my way soon...
Post by: inlikeflynn on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:35:40
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/triumph-adler-gmk-keyset/?mode=guest_open
Post by: intelli78 on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:36:43
http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/3066to/buying_gmk_triumph_adler_now_live_on_massdrop_the/
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/triumph-adler-gmk-keyset#tab-discussion
Please kindly (keyword is KINDLY) help answer people's questions and assuage any concerns about ABS, etc. Be nice :)
Post by: vindaon on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:37:18
Post by: motherbrain on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:37:46
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:39:32
So do I start a new thread in the GB section? Move and retitle this one? Any mods want to chime in?
Create a new thread in GB subforum and (not required, but is useful) link to it in here (both a post and in the OP). :thumb:
Some GB leaders will lock the IC thread, which is also optional. Some like to use the existing IC thread for non-GB discussion of the keyset.
When you do create the GB thread, shoot an active mod a PM and we'll get it approved right away.
Post by: intelli78 on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:41:01
very excited about this group buy. thanks for putting in all the work. here's hoping we can get to 500!
I have my sights set on 1,000. It is NOT out of the question, especially with some potential bulk purchases from Asi :eek: :eek: :eek:
Post by: sethk_ on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:41:01
Post by: cjhard on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:42:46
Post by: monotagary on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:45:45
Post by: Latin00032 on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:46:09
I must try this next time.and how about changing your shipping information after ordering? My address probably will be changed the time the keycaps be done (if it can make it) so I just want to be sure
If you contact MD support you can edit your shipping info for an order.
Heck, I even changed my order options once, like 2 weeks after the drop closed. I just sent a support request for "other" and told them I changed my mind. The order hasn't arrived yet, so I can't confirm that the warehouse will make the right change, but the person who responded to my request told me that if not just contact them and they'll make it right.
So yeah, I don't think an address change is a big problem. They really seem to have their stuff together over at Massdrop (at least in my recent experience).
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:47:59
Post by: intelli78 on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:48:11
Locking now~